Subject: Alts

Posted on: March 27 2011 @ 09:31 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Okay folks, there's been some dickishness involving alts lately. Time to discuss what we can do about it.

Right now I'm leaning towards something like this in a player's Bio:

>This character probably has 2 alts.

Or, perhaps,

>This character probably has 2 alts, of which 1 is in a clan.

Obviously saying outright who's an alt of who isn't gonna go down well, so that's my proposal. Any other ideas?



Replies:

Re: Alts

Posted on: March 27 2011 @ 09:57 PM
By: Maniak

Content:

Is there a way to see which is the main account, and which isn't?

>This character is most likely an alt.

Or perhaps mute players that are alts, for their first week or DK? I think most alts are made willy-nilly, for the lulz. Some cool down period might help. Some ideas just aren't fun after a nights sleep.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 27 2011 @ 10:32 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Not sure about that Maniak, a lot of alts are created for (perfectly legitimate) role playing, and barely ever get played up at all. Making people spend ages playing them up a level might not go down to well in some places.

As for 'main account', well I'd have a hard time saying which is my main account. The character who I game play most, and who generally channels my SP, and is signed up for the world community grid thing isn't the same as the character that I first made.

I'm afraid that I don't have anything constructive to offer as an alternative though.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 27 2011 @ 11:15 PM
By: hajen

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Okay folks, there's been some dickishness involving alts lately. Time to discuss what we can do about it.

I guess first question is: it's not bad enough for the ban hammer then?

and since i don't really pay attention to how others are playing the island (in other words: i have no idea what the incident is), all i can offer is my feelings about alts in general.

Fair usage:
role playing (everything else is unfair or cheating)

Unfair usage:
using an alt for anything HoF related or measured (includes defending outposts)
using an alt for crate hunting
using an alt for titan slaying
using an alt to build any dwelling, except for its own personal dwelling (if it has one) (meaning no alt army gang building a dwelling for the main or a friend)
having an alt in a clan (there are clan related HoF items)

Doesn't really hurt me or my game play, but I only have one character and it only has 100 stamina per day. Going against someone who has one alt working on travel HoF items, another alt doing titan killing and another alt doing fighting HoF items makes it very difficult for me with my one character to get first place in any one of those HoF items. If I'm trying to make money by crate hunting, my ability is seriously compromised in comparison with an alt that uses it stamina exclusively for travelling the map.
The HoF is a part of my game experience, but it's not the main reason why I play; I don't let unfair play affect my enjoyment of the game.


Cheating:
gifting between alts or alt to main
regifting for your buddy's alts (middle man/ laundering)
having an alt in the same clan
using an alt to spy on another clan
using an alt to scope out eBoy prices in other outposts

Ban hammer stuff


to return to the question asked:
institute a regimen of using only one alt per game day or per one 24-hour period (more severe).
spouses, siblings or friends sharing an IP would need to contact you and convince you that they are two or more different people playing different main characters to get the characters unlocked for same game day usage.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 27 2011 @ 11:17 PM
By: Ashtu

Content:

Require a valid email address, and a response from that address, before character is allowed in?

Or maybe a new level of account - the "RP Special" account, requires XX supporter points for each extra alt?

I dunno. All in all, I'm in favor of alt-visibilty, like HM.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 27 2011 @ 11:43 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

In my opinion, the no alts in clans rules can bend... I am both in GERM with my main, and have an alt that is in a (much) smaller, lesser-known Clan. Marly, Piper, and maybe Teh Dave know about it from GERM, as well as all of the officers and the founder of the other clan. I don't pass along any specific information on the inner workings of the clan, and as long as the leaders on both side are fine with it, I don't think there;s a problem.


However, I'd be more than willing to add a line "This character is an alt."

If you do implement the line, perhaps there could be a choice on how it's worded...

"This Character probably has x alts." for default, or...

"This character is one alt out of x linked to a character."

"This is the main character, with x alts."

for some reason, I'm somewhat insulted by anything that could make dizzy seem like an alt. He's my main.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 12:20 AM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Before this goes further I should point out that we're not differentiating mains from alts, because programs can't do that.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 12:25 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

(STUFF THAT DOESN'T MATTER, DERP)

Back to the topic: the original suggestion ("This character probably has 2 alts."), well... I don't see what that would solve, exactly. I guess it would help to know (in vague terms) what said dickishness involved. What are we trying to prevent?


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 01:02 AM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: hajen


institute a regimen of using only one alt per game day or per one 24-hour period (more severe).



I don't like being the one that puts down everyone else's ideas without giving any themselves, but...I have been known to play Biggs and Skronky in the same scene. I haven't role played much recently, being rather short on inspiration for some reason. But if and when I do again, I'd like to be able to use both of them at the same time sometimes.

Also, I sometimes swap things between alts. Largely because one alt (Alexander Quandle) gets all my SP. This is only for Hunters Lodge things, and almost always role playing things at that. Most recently, I made a memento, a Skronky Pot Protectors Society badge, with an 'innit' attribute, to give to people who I see playing particularly good midgets in Squathole (or elsewhere, but I'm much more likely to see them in Squathole.)

Alexander made them, as he's the one with the SP, but it should really be Skronky that gives them out. So AQ made a few, and then dropped them on the map for Skronky to pick up.

If people feel that I'm being cheaty here, then please let me know. I certainly don't do anything that I wouldn't be perfectly happy telling everyone about here in the forums say.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 01:59 AM
By: Kes

Content:

I'll happily admit to having two alts on here. The first, Kagero, is used first and foremost for roleplay, and second for wandering about outposts and dwellings and the island in general. Since his creation, I've sent him over a title-change document, levelled him up to a point where he's comfortable travelling - gotten a tad carried away with that - and avoided building materials and similar like the plague.

The second alt's no more a blank face, used only for reading roleplay and the occasional dwelling-peeking if Kestrel and Kagero are both knackered and/or failboated.

I am... quite fine with alts in clans when those involved (leaders and such) know about it, but a little less fine and rather warier of this new system Dan's suggested. I can think of a few alts who stand alone perfectly as genuine characters, never interact with the main account in any way - but for perhaps main-to-alt gifting of Hunters' Lodge items - and even give the players a certain amount of writing-confidence from the anonymity. For them to be at risk of losing that (thinking along the lines of ooh, look, both of these people have the same number of alts. How did I never see it before?) due to other people being dickish would be an awful shame.

But maybe necessary?

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

...I'd like to be able to use both of them at the same time sometimes.

Seconded. Fervently.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 01:59 AM
By: Ashtu

Content:

I was gonna post some long thing about non-dickery alts, but HM beat me to it. Yeah, what he said. Whenever you see one of the Ashtu twins, the other one is somewhere nearby.

And as far as what kind of dickery is going on - I neither need or want to know. That's what the Mods are for. If they say it's dickery, then it is.

Remember that the Island is NOT a democracy - it is a benevolent dictatorship, by necessity. CMJ runs this server and the Island because he can. The rules he enforces are to keep himself legally clear, and to keep a few individuals from messing up a good thing for everybody else. The happier he keeps us, the more we hit that PayPal button.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 02:04 AM
By: Rosin

Content:

TLDR; Alts for RP, even in clans, perfectly fine by me. Alts are personal responsibility, should stay personal. Moderators already know who is who, can deal with situation according to how they see fit.


Quote by: hajen


Unfair usage:
using an alt for anything HoF related or measured (includes defending outposts)
using an alt for crate hunting
using an alt for titan slaying
using an alt to build any dwelling, except for its own personal dwelling (if it has one) (meaning no alt army gang building a dwelling for the main or a friend)



These, I totally agree with. Unfair usage that turns the island into a game of 'who has the most free time/alts'.

Quote by: hajen


having an alt in a clan



This, I disagree with as unfair/cheating usage in a lot of circumstances. Spying on another clan? Bad. Boosting your own clan's numbers and using the alt to funnel extra ciggies into your clan? Also Bad. Having an alt in a different clan than your main because it is an RP alt? Totally okay.


Back toward the main topic, saying a player possibly has alts.. I don't see what that fixes, really. I mean, I personally have 2 alts that are entirely for RP purposes, one of whom is a bit dusty and the other is practically a ghost by now. Does it warrant putting me up for special scrutiny just because I have alternative characters I like to bring into stories on occasion? I don't think so.

If there is a dickish alt, then the mods (and of course the admin) both know who all of that player's characters are already. The dickish alt could be punished and all of that player's characters could be delivered a warning against future behavior. Right? I have no clue how the moderating situation is around here, but that's my best guess.


I think Alts are a player's own responsibility. Their decision to reveal it if they want, to whom they want. That shouldn't change I don't think, because as stated in another thread (I am hopeless with forums so pardon the lack of link), it very well might change how characters interact with each other and that might lead to A ) Bad Drama, and/or B ) Big Problems between players and potentially players leaving.


Sorry for wall of text.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 03:56 AM
By: Tyr

Content:

My concern about having a line in people's bios is that someone trying to RP a rookie alt will never get treated like a rookie again.




.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 05:20 AM
By: Agelmar

Content:

Quote by: Kes

I'll happily admit to having two alts on here. The first, Kagero, is used first and foremost for roleplay, and second for wandering about outposts and dwellings and the island in general. Since his creation, I've sent him over a title-change document, levelled him up to a point where he's comfortable travelling - gotten a tad carried away with that - and avoided building materials and similar like the plague.

The second alt's no more a blank face, used only for reading roleplay and the occasional dwelling-peeking if Kestrel and Kagero are both knackered and/or failboated.

I am... quite fine with alts in clans when those involved (leaders and such) know about it, but a little less fine and rather warier of this new system Dan's suggested. I can think of a few alts who stand alone perfectly as genuine characters, never interact with the main account in any way - but for perhaps main-to-alt gifting of Hunters' Lodge items - and even give the players a certain amount of writing-confidence from the anonymity. For them to be at risk of losing that (thinking along the lines of ooh, look, both of these people have the same number of alts. How did I never see it before?) due to other people being dickish would be an awful shame.

But maybe necessary?

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

...I'd like to be able to use both of them at the same time sometimes.

Seconded. Fervently.


Uh, off topic, but still addressing this seconded notion:
you can be on two accounts in the same browser, as a sure thing, by going through both improbableisland.com and www.improbableisland.com

you can do more alts with multiple browsers (Though I don't like to do that, even on my beefy processor), or by using a private tab. I know for a fact I can use a couple accounts on one domain with one being in an open tab and the other in a private tab.

[IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT]

On topic; really, difficulties with alts depend upon the person. If problems arise, I don't know a viable, safe workaround that protects roleplay and gameplay for the user in question and the users who may be affected by any abuse of alts.

There's either put a bunch of restrictions down and make it a total pain for fresh accounts or -probable- alt accounts, or have something so light it may as well not even be there. To my eyes, at least.
[EDIT:] second post yeah! And I'd like to just mention that I use Opera browser, as an addendum to my blathering about using multiple accounts and all. One could probably use several more accounts in one window using the browser masking tool (Maybe, I don't know crap about browser-shenanigans) maybe masking the browser as FF would do the trick, I don't know.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 05:32 AM
By: Rosin

Content:

Quote by: Tyr

My concern about having a line in people's bios is that someone trying to RP a rookie alt will never get treated like a rookie again.




This too. Partly an example of ruining someone's fun (no one would be able to RP a rookie unless they WERE a raw rookie. Even then, sometimes people create a testing account to get their toes wet before they start a proper account for writing) and also an example of how showing alts changes how people would treat you.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 05:57 AM
By: Rosin

Content:

Double posting because the edit time limit ran out while I was writing this. Massive wall of opinion text, sorry no TLDR this time.


Also, imposing restrictions on alts or possible alts like having them reach a DK before being able to write... One of the most attractive things to me about any sort of alt writing right now is that there is no title for 0DKs. I could make an alt called 'The weather' and have it post such shenanigans as;

The weather in Kittania today is cloudy with a chance of rain. Kittymorphs have abandoned their usual sun basking locations in favor of the shelter of trees.



But if I had to DK that alt once, I'd end up with 'Contestant The weather in kittania today', and that just doesn't work. And yes I know I could buy a custom title and blank it out for that alt, but that would mean I'd have to donate money on that alt.

Speaking of which, if we could send items that weren't game-related between alts again that'd be awesome. No eboys items or cards, but if I bought a bag full of req from the Lodge on Rosin and sent it to The weather, then I'm still the one paying for the req bag and it would only benefit the alt anyway. Same with non-game-changing lodge items like custom titles and the like. And what about mementos? Sending those from one character/alt to another (for RP purposes, just like title change documents etc) would be fun too.

I bring that up because I have $300 worth of supporter points on Rosin but those can ONLY be used on Rosin, not any of my alts or potential alts. I was the one who chipped in the donation, does it matter which of my characters gets the item?


ANYWAY BACK TO THE TOPIC YES.

Infinite possibilities with raw 0dk alts. 'The weather', 'The sandbox', 'A lost fish' (swimming in some fountain or another after a big rainstorm of course). IMAGINE THE VERSATILITY OF AN ALT CALLED 'THE' OH MY LORD IT'LL BE GONE BY MORNING WON'T IT. Actually, I have an idea based on that premise but I'll get around to that later shan't I.

BACK ON TRACK AGAIN, I'M RAMBLING AREN'T I.


Having limits set on when an alt can RP? Bad. What if it IS a rookie (just on a computer or IP used by some other player before, or however we track alt accounts)? Then they might just see the restriction and say "Oh hell, is it even worth it?" That spells ill for a whole mess of things, rookie retention being the biggest. No one wants to go somewhere that immediately says "You can't play with the other kids until you spend perhaps a week slogging in the jungle and getting used to how things work around here game-mechanic wise."

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THIS AND THE ALLCAPS ARE HURTING MY EARS.

Right. So. Um. I don't like the idea of putting RPing restrictions on alts. I personally can see a whole vast future of potential with alts for RP now that the 'Rookie' title has been nixed, which I'm sure others can see too.

I also realize that some people will use this for dickish purposes, already have, and probably will for quite some time unless harsh restrictions are placed on it. I just don't like the idea of punishing (yes, that's what I'm thinking of it as) everyone for the actions of a few ne'er-do-wells whose other accounts are already known to the mods and admin.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 05:58 AM
By: Makiwa

Content:

Tricky isn't it? If only there were no dickjerks it wouldn't be an issue.

Making a players alt(s) visible to everyone doesn't help anything. From another thread I've realised that this would actually be a bad thing.

In general I agree with hajen which reflects this
elsewhere in the Enquirer.

I think alts used for RP are fine, no problem there. As disposable characters used for the lulz or perma ones like the Skronkys and Ashtus - fine. I mention these last two because they are voluntarily visible.

So enforced alt visibility I say no. However, having players belonging to more than one clan via alts is another matter. I had always thought that clans were kind of a privileged 'secure' haven for players. Having a 'lurker' in the clan undermines that. Clans can, of course have 'no alts' policies. May I suggest this? Alt visibility is only enforced if the player is in more than one clan? After all, why wouldn't the player want this knowledge to be public - I can't think of a good reason. Having a main and an alt in different clans so your alt can interact in different social circles doesn't stand up. Your alt doesn't need to be in a clan for this to happen.

Sorry for long post and hope it's more or less coherent.

Caffeine still trying to kick in. Mornings Confused


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 06:13 AM
By: hajen

Content:

Quote by: Ashtu

Remember that the Island is NOT a democracy - it is a benevolent dictatorship, by necessity. CMJ runs this server and the Island because he can. The rules he enforces are to keep himself legally clear, and to keep a few individuals from messing up a good thing for everybody else. The happier he keeps us, the more we hit that PayPal button.

Quoted for truth. My previous wall o' text and what follows should not be viewed as an attempt to impose my will on the island, rather just offering my thoughts to CMJ and also enrich the discussion on the subject.

Quote by: hajen

institute a regimen of using only one alt per game day or per one 24-hour period (more severe).

I suggested this, but I don't support it. This would devastate a few of my friends and other legitimate role players. The weathervane players would have been non-existent under it. We or I (more correctly) don't know what problem CMJ is trying to fix. Did a small clique with their 12 to 20 alts circle around a poor character and pummel him/ her with put-downs and insults? what I offered is what I considered the nuclear option; something we can work back from, so we know what we are trying to avoid. Also so the total global thermonuclear war option wasn't used: making the "no alt" rule actually mean that.



Further refining my alt unfair usage statement.
Either enriching the discussion or horseshit, reader's choice.

I can boil it all down into this statement: Alts should not use stamina.

Exceptions that prove the rule:
>you want your alt to RP a kittymorph, midget, joker, etc. Well, it's going to have to do a few DKs to make that happen, isn't it.
>you don't want to RP in just NewHome. It takes stamina to travel to other outposts and dwellings so you can RP there also.
>your alt wants its own home sweet home. Trees don't magically fall down and then go back up as walls, stone doesn't grow out of a quarry and then join together to make a foundation...
>OSTs are not free. You need to make some req for living expenses (don't forget rides and toolboxes also have costs).

and clarifications:
Main character and the character with the SP account are synonymous in my mind; I see nothing wrong with the main gifting anything it wants out to the alts, or to friends or to rooks. The possible badness is when the alts farm req and send it back to the main or to another alt (the hidden main character).
example: an alt to titan slay, another alt to crate hunt. Convert crate goodies into req. Both alts convert req into OSTs and gift back to main. Main receives gifts after DK and instantly has SPS armor and kitty launcher.
I also mentioned gifting to a buddy (middle man/ launder) and then the buddy gifts it back to one of your alts, thus helping to obscure the connection between alts.

and some back pedaling on my no alts in clans:
Let me start with an analogy - about bees.
the clan is the hive
the main-player clan mates are the workers
alts are drones, they only have one purpose in life... to role play (spice up the life in the clan)
if it's a purely role playing hive, then I find that copacetic.
if however, some of the workers want to enjoy the benefits of the clan buff or see their clan climb up the "clan DK" chart, then the drones are filling up a slot that could be filled with a productive worker.
So, I don't think that alts in clans are "bad" unfair, rather just the possibility that they could be a hindrance to a clan quickly reaching some goals (if the clan feels as a whole that such goals are worthwhile).

The preceding has nothing to do with reality, but I had fun mashing keys - random keys on my keyboard.
Smile


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 06:27 AM
By: Rosin

Content:

Snipped from Newhome banter:


[23m31s] The most versatile alt ever has just been created. "Apologies in advance, folks," says its creator, "I just made this to.. I actually don't know! I suppose it was for proving a point, but I can't be sure anymore."

[21m40s] The best thing about it is, the creator is willing to tell everyone who she is. "Hello, I'm Rosin's writer too."


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 06:32 AM
By: Temper

Content:

I would say, if alts are being used for dickish purposes, couldn't the mods take it up with that alt's main character?

Of course, this puts more on the mods, which might not be entirely fair. But I don't think putting a thing in a character's account, telling the world they have alts, is a good fix either.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 06:43 AM
By: Rosin

Content:

Quote by: Temper

I would say, if alts are being used for dickish purposes, couldn't the mods take it up with that alt's main character?



That's sorta what I've been saying. A mod can see who the characters linked with an account are, so I don't think it really helps displaying who has how many alts. More hurtful than doing any good, in my (highly opinionated) opinion.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 06:53 AM
By: Kes

Content:

Quote by: Agelmar

Quote by: Kes

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

...I'd like to be able to use both of them at the same time sometimes.

Seconded. Fervently.


Uh, off topic, but still addressing this seconded notion:
you can be on two accounts in the same browser, as a sure thing, by going through both improbableisland.com and www.improbableisland.com

you can do more alts with multiple browsers (Though I don't like to do that, even on my beefy processor), or by using a private tab. I know for a fact I can use a couple accounts on one domain with one being in an open tab and the other in a private tab.

[IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT].


...was more referring to hajen's suggestion of only being able to log onto only one account each gameday/real day, but I did not know that method for different characters in the same browser. Cheers, Agelmar!


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 07:21 AM
By: Chef+Micha

Content:

As a RP player with an alt, I quite like the fact that there is no severe ban on alts now. I feel it's more a wink and a nod to RP alts, and the fact that I can't send a crate from Micha to Joanna Toothacher the Alt is fine with me (this may have changed since I last tried).

I don't like the idea of a long waiting period between creating alts and being able to play them, though. I DO like the idea of being able to log in in the same browser with different characters. Currently I use Safari for my main and Firefox for my alt, when we're on at the same time (which is admittedly rare) but I will admit that having a way to RP both characters in the same browser would be wicked cool.

I am also totally cool with not being able to gift stuff from the main to the alt or vice versa (because I know there are some people who are just dicks Frown saaaad ) but if you were a proven account that is free of dickishness that would be nice if we could occasionally move crates or req? But I suppose, thinking about it, the idea to use DP's to enable that is basically the same as the Hunter's Lodge. Herp derp.

In summation, I like alts! I like them for roleplaying! Having a line in the bio is okay with me.

[Edit] I forgot to mention, in full disclosure, that my alt is in a clan. It is also for RP purposes. I also think that is okay, although perhaps the argument about alts booting out legit players is void now because of the buy-in for higher clan member numbers - but the clan that I had Joanna join doesn't seem to be having a recruiting overload. Regardless, I still think that in general, the Island is pretty good about self-policing for jackassery and having RP clan members isn't a big problem. Hope I'm not overly optimistic and wrong on this one! (don't think I am.)


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 07:35 AM
By: Wigs

Content:

I'd like to put in some of my own input, since I have more than one story-specific alts.
But I haven't quite figured out yet.

Is this an issue between alts being used for bad-communication or tomfoolery? (Community and not gameplay abuse)
Or it this an issue about alts being used for bad gameplay? (Not community abuse)

Because I'm starting to lean towards it being about a community problem, since a gameplay mechanic wouldn't be solved much from adding a line on a bio.

I'd just like to know, perhaps. So that I can figure out which I'd really need to sit and think about. The thread is bouncing between both so far. Sorry if THIS is useless input.
/sob


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 07:38 AM
By: Iriana

Content:

I don't wish to know all the details of the dickery that's prompted CMJ to open this thread--that's a mod/admin thing, and I'm happy to stay out of it. But I do think it's important for us to know the general nature of it. Is it item transferring? Is it ganging up on a character? Is it sneaking behind clan lines that shouldn't be snuck behind? Knowing what the problem is will probably point us towards better suggestions as to how to make it better.

Anyways, I also don't think that showing how many alts a person has will help. It may not hurt, in particular, but... due to some recent conversations I've had about alts, I'm thinking that that may just make people suspicious--especially since the names won't be revealed. I know some clans don't really like their members to have characters in other clans, so this may complicate things.

So far, I know that gifting doesn't work with alts anyways. So unless someone's being very sneaky about this somehow, I don't know how item-transferring would work. (On a semi-related note, I agree with being able to transfer Lodge items; you paid or did something for the SP, when it comes down to it.) As far as clan-sneaking, perhaps there could be a way for clan leaders to see how many alts their members have? I still think that that would just contribute to paranoia and suspicion. Not good!

Yeah, so basically I haven't said anything constructive. I'm still trying to think of a good mechanism to allow alts that are good and fun, and discourage ones that are cheaty or dickish... easier said than done.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 07:39 AM
By: calliaphone

Content:

Hrm. I nearly jumped in to the last topic that talked about alts, but then I had no time! Still, clearly I gotta make time now.

I have about 20 alts, which I have created over many months - mostly for specific scenes or stories, sometimes for shits'n'giggles, sometimes for other reasons. I have RPd them individually, I have done scenes with several of them at a time (the maximum was 5 at once, and required application of strong drink afterwards, to facilitate recovery). I consider one of them as much my main as Callia is, and keep these two characters very separate in RP. I use another (like Kestrel does) as an anonymous "reader" - who never RPs and never hunts the drive, but allows me to be quietly online.

I do not tell everyone who they all are, but I imagine it is unusual to have so many. If the number of alts is revealed in my characters' biographies, it will probably amount to unmasking them all in my case. I would be sad about this. Callia is a very demanding figure to RP, and there have been times where I've desperately needed to get away from the little horror. If I hadn't had other characters, and been able to keep them anonymous, I'd have quit the island a long time back - simply from burnout, and the sheer relentlessness of always being identified as Callia. I have continued to have fun on-island, by giving myself alternatives in this way. I try not to spoil anyone else's fun, as a rule.

Thinking about the issue more generally, it strikes me that, if there is dickishness happening with any character (alt or not), then it is the dickishness that needs dealing with, and not the alts. After all, we've had anonymous alts for a long time - yet only now (perhaps since the community has grown a lot?) has this issue been raised as problem by admin.

I don't know what sort of behaviour we're talking about on this occasion, but ... we've discussed plenty times on this forum the question of "how should players deal with dicks?" And the generally-accepted line seems to be that real problems are best handled by mods. The mods themselves say this. We all know when someone's doing something we don't like - we don't need to know they're an alt to know we're not enjoying it, or to politely ask them to stop, or to speak to moderator (if they won't stop). As for moderators - they already know which characters are connected, and can intervene as appropriate.

Unmasking alts, unmasking the number of alts, muting alts for their first day/week/DK/allowing one char-per-game-day/saying alts can't be in clans or can't build or can't use stamina ... even ruling out transfer of SP/lodge-items between alts (as is currently in place) - these fixes all potentially impact on people who are not intending any mischief or malice, as well as those who are. I'd not like to see these kind of coded-rules proliferate. It seems a case of spoiling everyone's potential for fun in the vain hope that it'll prevent some people from being dicks. Fact is, dicks who can't express it one way will probably just look for another way.

So I end up wondering ... if we're having problems with some people behaving badly, is this a case of needing more moderation, rather than a mechanical fix or more rules. Perhaps our hard-working moderators are simply stretched too thinly for the size of the community and the number of chatspaces. Perhaps some people simply feel they can get away with anything, and are unlikely to get "caught".


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 08:15 AM
By: Harris

Content:

I have two.

I love having alts, and the fact that they exist.

Having them has allowed me a freedom to speak to people that playing as Harris does not grant me. Not in the sense of "saying what I REALLY want to say" or any other rubbish, but that people hardly talk to Harris at all no matter where I take him.
I pull out my alts, and one or both of them is greeted EVERY time, and engaged in SOME manner.
Sometimes too, I just feel like playing a different character without having to scrap the last one.

Frankly, I love this game's solo portion for the story and story gameplay challenges (JILL ROCKS!), but I love the Island's multiplayer dynamic for the roleplay. Hell, the Island's multiplayer dynamic IS roleplay.
Roleplaying by yourself is just talking to yourself, which you don't really need a computer for, or a game.

As for the fact that they exist, well,.my love is very easily explained: Hairy Mary and Calliaphone. Need I say more?


I think the best equalizer for dickheads abusing the privilege that wouldn't ruin the fun for the rest of us would be a required two name slot in which we type up to two of our other characters (if we have any), and have that be listed on each account Bio.
Sadly, it does seem like some sacrifices will have to made to stop the dickish, but I think this one would be very useful in doing so, as well as do the least damage to the innocent.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 08:30 AM
By: calliaphone

Content:

Quote by: Harris
Roleplaying by yourself is just talking to yourself, which you don't really need a computer for, or a game.

Equally, though, roleplaying by yourself could be described as "writing fiction". Whether you're doing it in one voice, or with several (i.e. multiple alts). I admit it's not necessary to use the island to do this - it can even be a right pain in the posterior - but some of us still can't quite shake the habit.

Quote by: Harris
As for the fact that they exist, well,.my love is very easily explained: Hairy Mary and Calliaphone. Need I say more?

Box of chocolates on its way. Callia ate all the toffee ones but there's still some soft-centres left.

Quote by: Harris
Sadly, it does seem like some sacrifices will have to made to stop the dickish, but I think this one would be very useful in doing so, as well as do the least damage to the innocent.

I still strongly doubt whether such sacrifices will bring the required benefits (although it is very hard to discuss much, without knowing what sort of problems we're talking about).


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 11:27 AM
By: Wigs

Content:

Quote by: calliaphone


I still strongly doubt whether such sacrifices will bring the required benefits (although it is very hard to discuss much, without knowing what sort of problems we're talking about).


This is what I'm holding back all of my biggest thoughts, and the time to build on them for ideas, to find out.
And callia puts this in a very perfect way. I do not wish to know too much about the incident or incidents that caused this to spring. Just what kind we're dealing with.
Although, callia's post just before the one I quoted, comes off to express most of my exact thoughts already.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 11:30 AM
By: Ashtu

Content:

Momentary derail, 'cause I couldn't resist:

Quote by: Harris

Roleplaying by yourself is just talking to yourself....

I don't talk to myself, do you, Sis?
Naw, I don't, Bro.
*grin* Back on track now.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 12:57 PM
By: KimmyMonstah

Content:

I shouldn't even be commenting, but. I'll weigh in a bit. I've got a brain and fingers, even if they never work properly.

EDIT: Also? WARNING TANGENT AHEAD. And lots of Sarcasm. [Seriously, take all of this as sarcasm. Unless it makes a point. Which it probably won't.]
EDITEDIT: Before I even post this mofo. Shrinking down some text. It's uhh...It's a pagestretcher. This is what happens when I show up on topics.
EDITEDITEDIT: I haven't even posted this yet. But. No. Okay so. Seriously, nobody get offended by my sarcasm.
I'm not asking. I'm telling. But that's sarcasm too, so my telling doesn't count. But I bolded some of it because I'm sort of serious. Seriously? Sarcasm. Lots of it. AND PAGESTRETCHING. I'm gonna stop now. Because the more I write here, the more there's gonna be. Down there.
EDITEDITEDITEDIT: Actually I did this EDIT and the one above it at the same time. But here we go! This one issss. My Apologies in advance, Dan. Please don't get too pissed off at me when ya read this. If you do. All in good fun of opinions!
OKAY NOW GO, MY SUPER LONG COMMENT!
"DAWW, OKAY BOSS."
Here's the thing.
You're going to have Dicks all over the place, here. This?
This is the internet.
There are lots of Dicks on teh internetz, literally and metaphorically.
Hell, I think we've established that you find me to be one, even if I happen to lack the necessary genitalia.

I've got...oh, five, six, or seven alts. I can't quite remember.
[Also Calli, goddamn, woman. You. Beat. Me. Out. I hate'choo and love you at the same time. Big Grin] -I'm kidding around. Congrats to you and all your brain's SPAWN.
However, unlike my NEW ADVERSARY/NEW ADMIRE-EE, I frequently hint at my alts with my main.
Hell, I like playing them in the same place, together, even, if it's funny.

That's...all I've got mine for. For some humor, because the island is so lacking of it. Especially lately.

You can ban alts if you like, but it's going to make an awful lot of people sad or pissed off. And then that Kitty is going to go Empty, and we do not want dis.

You can, also, have the mods do their jobs. They're mods. You've given them jobs. If it's too much for just them alone, [and I'm sure it is, on occasion], why don't you try...expanding your searchparty?
Find people who are reasonable and can peek around. You've got your other cops, why not get some watchdogs to help them out?
Limit their abilities of mod-ness, obviously. If things get hairy, those mini-mods could poke a big-mod, and we can limit our amount of metaphorical genitalia.

Just a wee thought on that.

Anyway. Before my ideas keep popping up that nobody'll care to read [honestly, I just sort of skimmed the middle pages of this topic. Sorry guys! No offense! But I'm sure some other people do the same thing Razz], I'll get back on taw-peek.
Either you have alts, or you don't, from what I see. You dunno wut-tew-do, because, oh hey, people are assholes.
Well...yeah. That's gonna happen. You've dealt with it before, I'm...pretty sure you can again, you are the Almighty Caveman, after all.
~Limiting the number of alts [if you can even do that? I, LOL, have no idea.], won't help, as people in Calli's case are proving.
~Having a wee bit in somebody's bio saying "OH HAHA GUESS WHAT, THIS? THIS IS AN ALT. LOL SCREWED YOU OVER, YOU THOUGHT I WAS A NOOB" [I'm joking about that], also won't help. That is going to ruin the effect some alts have on people.

-I remember first bringing Norris out and people thinking he was a rookie. It was...kind of a fun feeling, I'll be honest. You get to sit back and have a right chuckle at the people who didn't know who the hell you were.
~Banning them entirely will make people mad. You can do that, of course, but. JOONO, they'll stop feeding kitties.
~wuhhhh. Not doing anything at all will be, OH HEY IT'S THE PRESENT. [Doc, get in the DeLorean!]
~Okay, monitoring them like somebody who's got nothing else to do with their time....well that won't let you get much progress, will it? :\
This is why I suggested mini-mods earlier. Not just for alt-tracking. I mean for like. Commentary-tracking altogether. I know you ABSOLUTELY HATE IT when I reference other websites I'm on, HOWEVER, hear me out, for once: There is a hierarchy of mod-types on Deviantart. You've got your BIG SCARY admins, your BIG SCARY mods, who rule on high over any and everything. And then? then you've got separate mods with smaller parts. They only check a few things. As in: Gallery Moderators, ChatRoom Moderators, ...Puppy Moderators. You see where I'm going with this.
Ebenezer might be a perfect example. But just relying on him isn't enough. He has a life, too. This is why I'm saying...maaaayybe get some more people to help him out, yeah?
Oh look, there was some white text around here, somewhere... HUH.


...What else, hmm? Well. That's more for you to decide, yeah? Do you want less Dicks, or do you want people to stay happy? Sure it's a hard choice, and I'm sure it is for everyone who must make a decision like this. However...I think keeping the people happy is more of a...wise choice? Seems to work out for any other site who lets people have second accounts.
Besides, you're always gonna have Dicks of one form or another. If you didn't, this would probably be some type of a prison. [Seriously, think about this. "No, you can't do this." "No, you have to do THIS." "We can't let you do THIS because it'll MESS THINGS UP."] Nobody'd be able to have fun, because they'd always be up on their toes.
I'm kind of seeing this sort of pattern already, and it's almost completely killed not only my Island-addiction, but an awful lot of the people who are around me.
And those ones? They haven't been established, by you, that they're Dicks, yet. [I say yet. I shouldn't say yet. SORRY GUYS.]

Soooo. Yeah. I hate to say it, but like a famous shoe company says "Just Do It", I'm gonna REALLY GO OUT ON A LIMB HERE, and say "Just Deal With It."
Sorry if that's offensive, or any of this comment is, because it's mostly sarcasm mixed with thoughts.

Sarcasm is so hard to portray in all text. Le Baww, my Frenchies.
And I don't mean this in a bad way. Or a nasty way. I really. Seriously. Do not. It isn't meant to be negative, so don't blow your lid once ya read this'un.
Just...deal with it! Yanno! Like ya used to? Seemed to really help out b'fore. There's like an influx of Dicks lately, and I'm seeing the reasons why, honestly.
But instead of getting all SRS like everybody has been lately, try spicing things up with more of that silliness IIslanders have come to love. That's why we're HERE. We wanna be silly idiots.
If we were gonna be all SRSBZNS, we'd be on another roleplay site.


I've been to LoTGD's site. I got bored of it too. No alts, was one of the reasons. And all the SRSNZ was the other half.
Alts, the good ones, are, from what I'm seeing, trying to keep the silliness alive. And they're having a damned hard time of it, too.
Get rid of the Dicks, yes. Nobody wants Dicks here, sure. But...seriously? We're getting all pissy over alts?
We've taken the fun out of just about everything else, and now we're going after people's raw creativity.


TLDR, and I'm sure most of you didn't read, lol:
Keep the damn alts.
And stop making silly topics and freaking people out about alts. I don't even check here often, and it's like HOLY CRAP ALTS U GUYZ, every time.
Every.
Time.
No seriously. Not even kidding on the every time thing.
This should probably be the last one, tbh.
Let's bury this sucker.
I will get the shovels. Big Grin
And some tacos. We can make a party of it!


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 01:16 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

As I see it, the possible areas that alt dickery can fall into are

1) Gameplay, in particular farming. I think that Hajen's defined this as well as it's going to be defined, although if you look hard enough you can always find exceptions to any rule set. In this case, being able to see that someone has alts wouldn't do anything at all, just because Callia has twenty alts says nothing.

2) Using alts to gang up on someone, or be dickish in some similar way. Being able to see that someone has alts again won't do too much, we'll just be able to guess (not know) that it's the same person rather than several people. But it's still dickish behaviour whichever way it's happening.

3) Clan espionage. In this case, being able to see alts may help, the clan leaders, but not on general display to everyone. Even then, it won't give much concrete information, only plant suspicions, which may well end up being worse than not knowing at all if the suspicions turn out to be wrong.

But still, giving clan leaders access to knowing how many alts their clan members have might be useful in this case, although it would probably be better if they had to actively seek it out rather than just being somewhere on the bio which could be seen accidentally when the clan leader happened to be visiting to say something in their natter space for example. It might also help if the clan leaders (and only the clan leaders) knew who the alts were. I'm not 100% convinced by this, but I can see a case.

Harris. Cheers for the mention, although I haven't actually done any real writing since Christmas now, and when I did, it was 90% just me talking to myself. What can I say? I'm an asocial sod. I don't have to do it on the Island, but it feels better to me if I do. The whole backgrounds there. Plus I occasionally get people kind enough to stroke my ego by saying that they enjoy it. So, thank you for the shout out.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 01:48 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Clarification.

The ONLY thing we are talking about is adding the line I talked about above. We're not talking about preventing logins, revealing names, blocking or enabling transfers of resources, or restricting commentary. Please stop splintering to discuss these things, because they're not happening.

KimmyMonstah, quit with the text-shrinking stuff, nobody's printing the forum.

One possible other way we could do this is... I dunno, some sort of a trust button? If both players hit the trust button, then all of their alts are revealed to each other?

What I'm trying to instigate here is basically a warning before people get themselves hurt.

WARNING: You are about to have sex with someone you hate.
WARNING: Your clan and several others are run by the same man.
WARNING: You are standing up for the feminist principles of a misogynist troll pretending to be a female Rookie.
WARNING: You are being lied to.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 02:04 PM
By: Harris

Content:

Callia: CHOCOLATE!

Kimmy: Not offended, more surprised, really. You sounded very angry, and hardly playfully sarcastic. However, I don't think you need to be. Unless there is something that you know about that hasn't been said here, no-one in charge has said we need to get rid of Alts.
CMJ even started this thread with "let's discuss". Thats sounds like a quite reasonable, non-kill-em-all-let-God-sort-'em-out approach.

HM:
Well then!
You are very welcome, and I look forward to you prattling on to yourself more in the future.


Everyone:
I like everyone I've run into in this odd, odd little game over the past two years. For various reasons, yeah, but I do.
We have a sticky problem here, and one that is actually dear to lots of folk (me being one of them).
I see no reason to lose faith at all, though. Look at what happened when our Mods and our Admin had it pointed out to them, and agreed that NewHome had gotten unwelcoming.
They brought it to us, the players, for a discussion. Together, we changed the damn problem for the better. Are there still troubles? Well yeah, but...they are SO much smaller now. So much more easily removed by Dan and the Moderators entirely, because we banded together, and still are.
We'll be fine, and so will Dan's game.
We just need to keep looking for how.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 02:10 PM
By: Harris

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Clarification.

The ONLY thing we are talking about is adding the line I talked about above.


Quote by: CavemanJoe


What I'm trying to instigate here is basically a warning before people get themselves hurt.



I need to ask the silly question here; is it safe to assume that having some kind of 24/7 in-game player-accessible label for people who have alts looks like the only reasonable option?


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 02:14 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Hey, I'm an opionated bastard who has no problem running to the mods anytime I see something that I think is dickery. Or immoral. or just bad roleplay. (Sorry, Sessine and Eben!) But by what Kimmy was saying, that makes me kinda-a-little-like a mini-mod. Woohoo!


On a more serious note.

I think there is something to be said for having a mod (or mini-mod) camped in Kitt and NewHome, 24/7. Kitt because it NEVER FUCKING SLEEPS, and Newhome for a few reasons: It, as we have covered, has to be much more dick-free than the rest of the island. Also, the island, sadly, can have its downtimes, and I'm not just talking about those godawful periods where I'm cut off from my one true love this silly internet game. Sometimes, there's just not many people around, and a welcoming voice is really needed in Newhome. If there are enough trustworthy people, I think that would be a good course of action.


Whoa. Just saw CMJ's clarification in that handy little "last few posts" box at the bottom. On to that!

I don't think the trust button is 100% necessary... if I trust someone with the information, I let them know over distracts/gchat/msn, and that wouldn't solve the issues at the bottom if someone doesn't trust.

UNLESS

It only shows up when someone has alts? Then you could be like "Hit that trust botton, or no naughty time for you!"

With the original line idea: maybe it could just be something like "This narrator has alts." No specific number, so people can't be like "OMG X Has 26 alts, and Y does too! X is Y OMG."

back to mini-mods... I think there's something to be said for adding a little more responsibility to Clan Leader's plates? I dunno what exactly, but if you really wanna be a leader, you should be responsible for those you're leading, seeing as how you've got total control over it.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 02:41 PM
By: Zolotisty

Content:

Regarding "mini-mods": They already exist. The Island has four mods and each of us has a bloody contingent of folks who have our Distracts and Gtalk handles. They are not shy about waving flags when they see something's gone wrong. For me, at least, Distracts go to my e-mail, which means they go to my phone, which means if (heaven forbid) I am not near my laptop, I can intervene in the wilderness. Folks flag us if we don't see a problem first, and we are able to intervene swiftly and appropriately. I don't reckon it necessary to increase our bureaucratic structure when the system is already in place.

I'm touched y'all are concerned about us being spread thin. Wink I think we're fine right now, given the amount of time we spend (or me and Epaphus spend, anyway, can't say anything about S and Eben) seatdancing to shitty rap, writing, going about real life, and killing many pigs with many small birds. We'll let CMJ know when we're spread too thin, but the alt issues raised here aren't a matter of being spread thin, as CMJ clarified above. And, for me, at least, the job is a lot less stressful and or time consuming than you might imagine. Yes, we do a lot, but it is a pretty straightforward 'lot' which requires regular, short-burst check-ins rather than CONTINUOUS SURVEILLANCE AAHHH.

Two cents THUSLY THROWN, if you think it might be useful to have me on speed-dial and you don't already, then feel free to add me. In pictorial format because I don't want spam :


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 03:35 PM
By: Tyr

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe



What I'm trying to instigate here is basically a warning before people get themselves hurt.

WARNING: You are about to have sex with someone you hate.
WARNING: Your clan and several others are run by the same man.
WARNING: You are standing up for the feminist principles of a misogynist troll pretending to be a female Rookie.
WARNING: You are being lied to.




Here's the thing, though: A line about how many alts someone has isn't going to tell you who those alts are, just that they exist. Maybe your clan leader has 2 alts. Maybe one of them is running Rival Clan You Hate and Would Like To See Burned to The Ground. Or maybe that alt is just a funny little RP alt your leader uses to play someone else now and again. There's no way of knowing (unless you ask your leader, who can just lie).

What happens when one person is willing the push the trust button, and the other isn't? My concern (apparently I have a few of them) is that any in-game, institutionalized method of alt revelation will lead to more distrust and hurt feelings. The single line could create a feeding frenzy of "It's an alt! Oh god, whose is it? Who are you? Hmm? Hmm? Hmm? Look, Callia's alt total went up by one! I wonder who the new one is!"

I had a clan leader once who turned out to be an alt. It upset me greatly, and I ended up leaving the clan. But it had never occurred to me that they could have been an alt, and I'm not sure that a bio-line would have given me any more warning. Though that could be because I'm as thick as a plank of wood.

But if I'm a rookie, and someone asks me to join their clan, I'm not going to be savvy enough to go around peering at and comparing alt-totals (which won't help me anyway), and I'm not going to say to my prospective leader "Hey, I'll show you my alts if you show me yours." New players are too concerned with finding pants and eating something other than ratpacks to think "Gee, is this friendly person lying to me?"


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 03:47 PM
By: Ashtu

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

One possible other way we could do this is... I dunno, some sort of a trust button? If both players hit the trust button, then all of their alts are revealed to each other?.

I like this.

A button on the bio page, saying "This player has alternate characters (alts) Query now?". PlayerOne hits button, sends an automatic distraction to PlayerTwo. PlayerTwo then has the option of adding PlayerOne to a "Trusted User" text box on PlayerOne's bio page. This box may be edited at any time.

Now, when PlayerOne hits button on PlayerTwo's bio, the alts are automatically revealed.

It puts the burden on the player with alts. If they choose not to respond, then the the requester knows to think twice before interacting.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 04:52 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

I am a player with 0 alts. I don't even have the time to spend my 12 chronospheres every two days.

Having a line in the bio saying that the player has alts, that the account is an alt, or that there is a trust button that people might tell alts to one another about, are all useless or ineffective methods of dealing with players who use alt accounts to be dicks.

The methods that would be effective are all restrictive, and it's clear that CMJ doesn't intend on infringing on the availability of alts, just about the visibility.

But I repeat, increasing visibility of alts will give you a very small amount of fixing for a much larger amount of drama. Calliaphone mentions having things like an invisible alt to get away from everything and just let her read solo. If you have a "trust button", and now someone asks calliaphone, "Hey, trust me to know my alts so I can know yours," she might feel that while she does 'trust' the person, she doesn't want anybody to know who she is when she's in Island-Reading-Mode. Yet if she refuses to hit the trust button, now that person is all like, "Hey, how come you don't trust me?" And so now there's either someone's emotions that you have to gently assuage over a long period of time to convince them you like playing with them but you want your independence, or you give in, let them know, and get bothered every time you want to play, ever.

If a person is using alts to be dickish, reprimand the person, ban if needed. If they use alts after that, IP-ban them. If they use proxies, they have WAY too much dedication to trolling, but the mods have to then just play whack-a-mole.





Hmm. Perhaps we just need an ignore function.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 05:43 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

I don't like lists of trusted people. That sounds awful, and like it will make the island even cliqueisher.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 06:46 PM
By: Buddleia

Content:

Everything I can think of would penalise the innocent far more than it would prevent dickishness. Automated systems, rules, etc. There are certain alts that I would like to see who they belong to, but, mostly, it's none of my business.

My best idea is for there to be an assumption that it is ok to ask, and ok to say, and equally ok to say "I don't want to say" - with no hurt feelings. If things come to dickishness, surely that's for the moderators to check up on the narrator, rather than the players to be suspicious about.

Perhaps, if a player has good reason to suspect dickishness but the probable-alt will not say, it would be allowed to ask the moderators to check? Even if they only say "Yes, they are an alt" rather than "They are XXX's third alt and the others are Y and Z" (not that Z, obviously).


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 06:51 PM
By: Zolotisty

Content:

Quote by: Buddleia

Perhaps, if a player has good reason to suspect dickishness but the probable-alt will not say, it would be allowed to ask the moderators to check? Even if they only say "Yes, they are an alt" rather than "They are XXX's third alt and the others are Y and Z".



Anybody can already do that. Smile


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 06:56 PM
By: Makiwa

Content:

Being responsible for raising this topic in another thread and no, I won't be drawn into discussing specifics but will add this from Maniak in the other thread:

How does exposing alts benefits the community?


The answer is clear, I think. It doesn't. If it's a not benefit can it.

Restricting player's alts, any mechanism that reveals them publicly - trust buttons etc. adds up to a can of greasy foul smelling worms waiting to be unleashed. Much trouble with ensue I suspect.

I also suspect that part of Clever Dick/King Dick's personality trait leads inevitably to discovery sooner or later.

Alts in clans? The decision is up to the clan leaders to make it known via clan policy and/or bye-laws.

There have always been dicks, always will be. As has been said - deal with it!

The (mostly) excellent II community is intelligent and responsible enough to ensure that the inappropriate actions of the few will not spoil the game for the rest of us. Mini-mods I think there are aplenty already. Excellent mods are one step up the chain and a certain gent with the power of ban is, thankfully, available and accessible.

I suggest forgetting about the alt visibility thing altogether and getting on with IL.

EDIT saw this after I posted:

My best idea is for there to be an assumption that it is ok to ask, and ok to say, and equally ok to say "I don't want to say" - with no hurt feelings. If things come to dickishness, surely that's for the moderators to check up on the narrator, rather than the players to be suspicious about


Yes.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 07:52 PM
By: Ebenezer

Content:

I spend lots of time seatdancing to shitty rap, for your information, Zeeeee!

----

My vote is that I do not want this proposed "how many alts" feature.
And I'm not liking the sound of the "trust" button either.

I do think that anonymity is an important feature to alts. (Not a necessary feature, but makes them a lot more versatile and a lot more fun, for sure.) A few dickish people shouldn't get to ruin it for everyone else.

I think dizzyizzy's "this person has alts" (with no specific number) idea is a bit closer, but I'm not sure I can hop on-board with this one either. It seems like it's just opening the door for needless suspicion and merciless pokings, "I see you have an alt! Who is your alt? You can tell me! Don't you trust me? Can you give me a hint? Have I met your alt?" (and so forth.) Seems like it'd be less heart-ache for everyone if it's just left the way it is.

Note: I have magical powers and I can see everyone's alts. And I also have no alts of my own.
My opinion's based on my RP experience prior to my magical powers: my experience playing with my friends' RP alts.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 09:11 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

There is one time where I could see having an alt list be beneficial. For when we have rookies claiming to be dragons/demons/kittymorphs/jokers/whatever. Since these sorts of things seem to generally be more acceptable if you're a vet and the character is made for a specific purpose (A troll in the dungeon?), knowing that this person isn't a rookie would be nice. Yes, I'm aware that it's hypocritical of me to harp on rookies who aren't playing humans.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 09:14 PM
By: Trowa

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Okay folks, there's been some dickishness involving alts lately. Time to discuss what we can do about it. [...] Obviously saying outright who's an alt of who isn't gonna go down well

[snip]

Before this goes further I should point out that we're not differentiating mains from alts, because programs can't do that.

[snip]

The ONLY thing we are talking about is adding the line I talked about above.[...]

What I'm trying to instigate here is basically a warning before people get themselves hurt. [...]

WARNING: You are being lied to.

(Emphasis added)

I think that gets to the core of the issue here; people who use alts to break Rule 1. How do we solve that?

This issue seems to come down to two sides: Those who use alts don't want to be auto-flagged (for various reasons), and some who don't use alts want alts flagged. We've established that mods can see alts, and that at least one mod will reveal to others if someone is using an alt. In my opinion, this is all we need.

I hate to be that guy, but if people "get themselves hurt" because someone breaks Rules 1 and 3 and we set up an automatic feature to flag the alt, then I think that hurts the validity of Rule 2 and destroys the necessity of Rule 3. "This is, after all, only a silly Internet game."

Since there's no way to differentiate alts from mains via special accounts or something, I just feel there isn't a good cookie-cutter method that will be accepted by the community, so I have to sit in Mak and Budd's camp: If you suspect an alt and/or abuse, ask a mod. If you've been cheated by an alt (either by spending req or points on them, or giving them items), I wouldn't be surprised if the mods can help there, too. Heck, so far in my experience, all the mods are very friendly people, so at the very least they can try to make you feel better if your feelings have been hurt, right?


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 09:46 PM
By: Zolotisty

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

There is one time where I could see having an alt list be beneficial. For when we have rookies claiming to be dragons/demons/kittymorphs/jokers/whatever. Since these sorts of things seem to generally be more acceptable if you're a vet and the character is made for a specific purpose (A troll in the dungeon?), knowing that this person isn't a rookie would be nice. Yes, I'm aware that it's hypocritical of me to harp on rookies who aren't playing humans.


Neutral

From the basic RP guide:

With time comes magical writing powahz:
Although there are lots of exceptions, most peoples' characters show up on the Island as humans, with human abilities. There are lots of characters with spooky-super-cool-oh-my-gosh powers on the Island, and you can write one too - - in some cases, right off the bat, but in most others, after you've stuck around for a little bit. As people get to know you and your character's story, they'll believe more of what you have to say. There's this thing called 'suspended disbelief' in writing where you can get your audience to accept whatever wacky premise you throw out there as long as you've established some (subjectively) logical reasons for it. You'll automatically earn that privilege over time. If you want it from the get-go, you'll have to carefully convince your audience that your character deserves whatever crazysexyhot abilities you're giving them.


Rookies can write whatever they like, just the same as vets. The bit about suspended disbelief is to let people coming in know that they'll have the easiest time getting people to accept their oddball premise if they present the idea with panache. And, from the advanced RP guide:

You can't tell anyone else how to play make believe:
(...) If everyone seems to be having a good time, what does it matter if you think whatever they're doing is dumb or boring?


So no. Not beneficial. Super detrimental, actually.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 09:59 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

Sorry, I didn't realize you redefined what other players will want to interact with since I joined. :V The DK requirement for races should be removed, then.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 10:17 PM
By: Zolotisty

Content:

The Enquirer is a space where you're expected to follow all of the site's usual rules, Beeps. You've got the same responsibility for your actions and behavior here as you do in the actual game. Snide kneejerk comments, eyeah. Nothx.

But back to the discussion at hand.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 10:20 PM
By: Temper

Content:

Noooooo! The Dk requirement gives a sense of accomplishment to me. I worked to be a Joker the way the way it is. Also, having to work up to Joker helps new RPers get a handle on how to RP here, before they have sudden super-magical powers. That's what it's for (I think?). The part about Rookies being whatever they want to be is absolutely true, but it is generally easy to tell that if they can provide good, backstory reasons (And good backstories) for their characters, then they are a bit more ready to be whatever super-monster-gundam-wolf-mabob they want to be. But I know when I showed up, if I had been able to be a Joker right away, it would have been full of awful. Because I wasn't very good, in the beginning. Eek! (This is the closest to an O face I could find).

I don't know if I expressed that very well.


Also, things like the trust button, as it has been said, are potential quagmires of hurt feelings and unhappiness.


I guess I'm trying to say, the working up thing is like training wheels for those of us who aren't the best RPers, and shouldn't have powers right off the bat. Like me. I dunno. I've managed to confuse myself.
Again.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 10:27 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

Having a list of alts in the player's profile would be rather privacy-breeching, and anything less is essentially useless and would likely cause more witch hunts than help. Alts will (generally, from my experience) alert players to the fact that it's not their first character in Banter in some way, whether intentional or not. People claiming to be other people for the sake of deception falls under rule 1.

Temper: My point was that given that the updated RP guidelines state "You can be anything you want and that's your right, no one can say otherwise," then there's no reason to restrict race choices. With possibly the exception of Jokers, the actual game-side abilities are pretty balancing anyway.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 11:16 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

To throw my two cents in, I think the best option is the simplest and most well-endorsed in this thread, so it seems: do nothing. Like Buddleia said, any restrictions or rules seems more intent on punishing the innocent more than anything else, and it's just unnecessary when mods can already see alts and can deal with them on a case-by-case basis, as needed.

I've always like that the No Alts rule is a bit of a 'soft' rule, in the sense that it's totally okay to break, but only if you don't break the other two rules in the doing so. I don't think this should go away, because I think alts are a very good thing. I've had a couple RP alts in my time, and I'd know I'd go a bit crazy if I had to play the same damn character all the time.

Again, like Algus and others have said, because we don't even know what our suggestions are meant to even prevent, it's very hard to make any reasonable ones.

So, yeah. Keep things as they are, and let mods deal with the occasional spout of dickery. Isn't that what they, well, do?

Kimmy: your small text makes me want to stab my eyes out. IRONY, AWAY!


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 11:49 PM
By: Iriana

Content:

I'm kind of thinking it's all or nothing, here. Either reveal the names of everyone's alts (reduces possibility for dickery, but also reduces possibility for fun; may make people unhappy and break up friendships; drops probability of alts being created) or let alt issues be dealt with the way they've always been dealt with: through our mods. The indicator line brings up suspicions that it then doesn't help deal with, so it's not a happy medium between those extremes.

Unless there's a reason why problems with alts can't be handled by mods, I personally think that that's the best way to go. I feel that it keeps things quiet, and minimizes drama--just a swift bolt of lightning from the heavens, and all the problems are gone. (Or at least swept safely under the rug.)

I think a more solid alt policy, written clearly and appended to Material You Should Read Before Playing, would certainly help. What are things that absolutely shouldn't be done? What is a hypothetical example of things that can and should be done?

One thing, though.

Quote by: CavemanJoe
WARNING: Your clan and several others are run by the same man.

I have nothing against alts in different clans. Contrary to what some people have said, I do believe that it makes it a lot easier to interact with people if you're clanmates. If it's fun, doesn't piss off your leaders and other clanfolk, and lets you talk to more people, then great!

I do strongly dislike having alts be leaders to different clans. Members is one thing--officers are pushing it--but leaders? Leaders should have a commitment to one clan, and it's unfair to all their members if people are running clans through alts--it leaves the clans short, with only half or a third or a quarter of the attention that they should be getting. If it's possible, I'd like to request that IP-alts be disallowed from leading more than one clan.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 28 2011 @ 11:53 PM
By: hajen

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

What I'm trying to instigate here is basically a warning before people get themselves hurt.

WARNING: You are about to have sex with someone you hate.
WARNING: Your clan and several others are run by the same man.
WARNING: You are standing up for the feminist principles of a misogynist troll pretending to be a female Rookie.
WARNING: You are being lied to.

Now that I understand what you were looking for, all the other stuff I wrote is so much hubris.
Let me get on the bandwagon with Matt and the others and state that I like the status quo; I think the current mini-mods (OMG I have mini-mod superpowers; oh wait, so does everyone else) getting the attention of the big mods, who pass on stuff to the admin for rule 1 banning works. I tremble at the thought of trying to legislate morality onto the island; the kids have been kicked off the island, so don't make us wear kids gloves when interacting with each other now.
The first three warnings are good evidence of why we (the general island population) should not be aware of alts. Just because a player RPs one alt a certain way, it should not affect how I interact with their other alt. Too many people cannot separate the narrator from the alts.
As for the last warning, is not Role Playing just a genteel lying game?


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 02:24 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Iriana

Quote by: CavemanJoe
WARNING: Your clan and several others are run by the same man.

I have nothing against alts in different clans. Contrary to what some people have said, I do believe that it makes it a lot easier to interact with people if you're clanmates. If it's fun, doesn't piss off your leaders and other clanfolk, and lets you talk to more people, then great!

I do strongly dislike having alts be leaders to different clans. Members is one thing--officers are pushing it--but leaders? Leaders should have a commitment to one clan, and it's unfair to all their members if people are running clans through alts--it leaves the clans short, with only half or a third or a quarter of the attention that they should be getting. If it's possible, I'd like to request that IP-alts be disallowed from leading more than one clan.

Let's not have people casting dark suspicious glances now at all clan leaders. To make it clear: We are not faced with an epidemic of clan leaders stealthily running multiple clans! To my knowledge only one person ever did this, and he has already been outed by CMJ.

As for alts being members in more than one clan, that's up to the clans to decide. Some clans have a no-alt policy, others don't. If clan leaders want to know about an applicant's alt status, they can ask a mod. So, if you're considering joining a second clan with an alt, be up-front about it when you apply.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 02:42 AM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

I'm going to disagree, once again. I don't know how close what CMJ outlined is to what actually happened, and of course I shouldn't know, but I'll take it as a real situation.

That's nasty, really nasty. There's a big difference between that and the more normal forms of dickery. With those, they're plain to see, and yes they can be annoying, or even hurtful, but at least we all know where we stand with it. Playing head games like the above is a lot worse, and can really screw peoples head, especially if they start wondering who they can trust, if anyone at all.

Superficially it might seem similar to starting an alt so that people interact with you with the misconception that you're a rookie. After all, they're both at the very least misleading other people, but there's a fundamental difference, and that's the attitude behind it.

Playing a rookie is like pulling a joke on a friend. If and when you let them know (or they cotton on) then they should be able to laugh at it, and you're still friends. At worst, if they take themselves a bit seriously, or are a bit overly sensitive, then you can apologise and sort it out.

With the above, that's not the point of it. It's a form of exercising power over someone else, and the more upset the person gets, then the more the perpetrator enjoys it.

I'll say it again. This sort of behaviour is really nasty, and I don't like it. If someone's a bit innocent and naive*, then it can be quite damaging. It's also hard for anyone else to spot happening. A lot of this doesn't happen in public places, and mods won't see it unless someone points it out. So I would regretfully say that IF (and it's a big if) showing that someone had alts helped to stop this, then it should be done.

The question is, will that help? And I'm not at all sure that it will. Not without giving full details of all alts, otherwise it doesn't really say much at all. One tends to trust people unless you've got good reason not to. I do at least, and going round being suspicious of everybody isn't a path I want to go down.

Again, I don't really have anything constructive to add, I just want to reiterate one last time, that playing power games with someone's head is bad, and in a different league to normal dickery.

--------

*And quite a few of us are at 18, hell, some people are at 50 (and on the other hand, some people are really sussed at 13. So it goes.)


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 02:49 AM
By: Iriana

Content:

Oh. I certainly didn't mean to imply that. No dark suspicious glances from this quarter--I'm not pointing fingers at anyone at all.

Okay, as with all things, I believe there can be exceptions--there are people who could run two or more clans, simultaneously, with no unhappiness of any sort. So perhaps /disallowing/ this would be... hasty. But my point still stands that a leader makes a commitment to a clan, and it's difficult by anyone's standards to maintain more than one of those commitments.

(I forget that I'm not a leader anymore--it changes the way I look at the alt issue quite a bit, I'm finding.)


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 01:20 PM
By: Maniak

Content:

How about a friendly message right after sign-up saying "Hi, I'm glad you enjoy the game enough to make a second character, but please don't use it for being a dick. Doing so will reflect poorly on all your accounts." Link them to the alt character clarification for more info if needed.

It is just a reminder that The Powers That Be are watching. It won't stop anyone determined from acting like a dick. No code can. But hey, it's something. Then, if people act dickish, add the "The person has alts" line to any and all of their accounts, present and future.

Good alts deserve their own discretion, dicks risk losing (some of) their anonymity privileges.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 02:03 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

That might do something. How about adding a list of their alts to this message, just to rub in, "Yes, we do know who your alts are."


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 03:44 PM
By: Escemfer

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe


WARNING: You are about to have sex with someone you hate.
WARNING: Your clan and several others are run by the same man.
WARNING: You are standing up for the feminist principles of a misogynist troll pretending to be a female Rookie.
WARNING: You are being lied to.



Eungh. I really need to say it. This seriously bothers me. And I will say why:

If someone is using an alt to sabotage, trick, mock, lie, or otherwise be dickish to other players, then their behavior needs to be looked at privately, taken up privately, and dealt with privately. It shouldn't have to be a bigger deal than it already is. I don't understand why it matters if someone's being a dick on their alt or being a dick on their main, because either way, they're being a dick.

Also, this is a game for grown-ups. We are all supposed to be grownups, and we are all supposed to know not to take it seriously. If you are going to get drastically upset over one of these possible dickeries, you either need to cool your jets, or be more careful. Don't cyber-sex people you aren't sure you know. Ask around about a clan before you join one. Ignore someone who is being a dick, or report them to mods. Take this stuff at face value, and brush it off your shoulder.

All of these warnings, and the issues CMJ seems to be concerned with, are all what I would consider issues of personal accountability. The only people who need to be responsible, or affected, by these things are the person doing them and the person having them done to him/her. I am against any measures implemented that may affect the entire community in an adverse way (per other concerns expressed in this thread) because a few people are being dicks.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 09:53 PM
By: g_rock

Content:

I've very little to add except to agree with the general feeling, as I understand it, that No on this feature.

Personally, I don't WANT to know whose alts are whose. Even given a number, "Calliaphone has 37.5 alts" I wouldn't want to know, nor would I ask. The same goes with a trust button. I like the idea, but I would hope that, if you trusted someone enough to share that info, you would already have done so.

These types of features are discouraging to legitimate users, but the dicks who abuse the alts in the first place would be put out not at all, as is usually the case with dicks.

My feeling is that I'd like my blissful ignorance, and if the mods know about this sort of dickness, then isn't it the sort of thing that needs to be blown up just with the individuals?

[Warning: Well then maybe I should have found out more before I hooped in the sack, eh?
Warning: If it's my clan leader, he likely misplaced the first one, forgot about it, and accidentally created the new one while trying to get his motorized scooter parking validated
Warning: Maybe the misogynist troll needs to have their alt deleted
Warning: Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last]

Basically, you mods all have my sympathies, the burden of knowledge and all that. Having to watch this kinda stuff and not really being sure whether to intervene without being asked.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 10:00 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

I do like the idea of the list upon registration. Even if it wasn't "HEY WE KNOW YOU'RE MAKING A NEW CHARACTER" and just "If you've forgotten your old character's name, here are characters we found listed for you," it provides a reality check that it -is- information that can be fetched, and that if the player thinks they're being clever by registering an alt, they need to re-evaluate just how clever they are.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 10:54 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Can this be with the list? Please?


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 29 2011 @ 11:02 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

I think this is more the Island's speed, though.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 30 2011 @ 01:03 AM
By: hajen

Content:

looks like we've exhausted this thread...
*pulls out a timetable and studies it*
*pulls out and glances at pocket watch*
*nods head and points at the timetable*
just as I thought, the Ashtu special should be pulling into the station on track three, platform B of this thread in 15 minutes...
Wink


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 30 2011 @ 01:07 AM
By: Beeps

Content:


NOW BOARDING THE BEEPS EXPRESS, DERAILING EARLY


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 30 2011 @ 01:13 AM
By: Ashtu

Content:

Quote by: hajen

the Ashtu special should be pulling into the station on track three, platform B of this thread in 15 minutes...

Quote by: Beeps

NOW BOARDING THE BEEPS EXPRESS, DERAILING EARLY

Thank you, Beeps - I'm enjoying a cup of coffee, and really didn't feel like throwing the switch.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 31 2011 @ 12:12 AM
By: Darcy

Content:

I'm saying No for the idea of listing alts in a bio or calling characters an alt. Darcy here is my second character-who-is-now-my-main and I've got a little rookie alt that I run around on when I can't Comms Tent RP in other Outposts and I want to see what's going on (I also had a rather awkwardly named alt for when I decided to peer around the Bordello for the first time but I don't use that one anymore since I decided the name might be offensive).

I think people should be able to 'start over' if they want to or have their little 'just for fun' alts they use for wandering the Island or posting amusing things in Banter/Story. Plenty of people know I was Waif once, but I didn't tell them until I had been around for a good bit since I was trying to establish myself as Darcy, not the first character (some people call me Waif still and it makes me weep).

If people are being dicks, then the moderators should be able to handle the situation since they can check who plays what. Unless this becomes a really severe problem, then let's not have any in-game things that other players can see. Of course, I might be giving people too much credit.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 31 2011 @ 09:28 AM
By: Raidur

Content:

My turn. I do have a single alt, who I prefer to keep anonymous. Its a rather different character and if people knew it was mine, they'd treat it quite differently. I don't want that. They do not intereact, they do not gift anything, they do not help each other in any way. They've only been in RP together a very few times and they've not interacted much as there were others around as well. Heck, they don't even go to each others dwellings (which they did not help each other with). I do tell others that I have an alt, but not who it is, for the mentioned reasons. Anyway, my 2 cents...

NO line in bio, or trust button. A few people may be being dickish with alts, but (hopefully) its not the majority, and should be dealt with privately, not by punishing everyone that decides they want to play a different character.

WARNING: You are about to have sex with someone you hate.
Obviously if their about to have sex, the characters don't hate each other... seriously, a bit of narrator/character separation here. I may dislike certain narrators, but that doesn't mean my characters have to hate their characters. I've even been in the situation that one of my characters (not here) fell in love with another character, who's narrator I disliked. Its STORY, deal with it as such, not by bringing in your petty RL grievances.

WARNING: Your clan and several others are run by the same man.
See, this shouldn't be happening in my opinion. Clans should not be able to be created by the same narrator. Admittedly, both my characters are officers in their clans, because they were asked and I did let the clan leaders know the character is an alt (or that I play multiple characters) Both characters do recruiting for their clans periodically as well.

WARNING: You are standing up for the feminist principles of a misogynist troll pretending to be a female Rookie.
Umm, yeah? Its the internet, we're playing CHARACTERS, who may have completely different ideas from each other. My alts would probably hate each other if they had an extended conversation. So what?

WARNING: You are being lied to.
Again, its the internet, and by definition, roleplaying is lying, as it's a fabrication of fantasy and hence, NOT REAL.


Anyway, theres my opinion, if I'm in the minority, feel free to ignore me, otherwise, perhaps I've added something worthwhile to the process.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 31 2011 @ 10:06 AM
By: Johnson

Content:

Chucking in my 0.002 cents in a definite, if polite, no on this idea.

Making the majority pay for the minority's crimes is distressing. And as part of the giddy majority with alts or friends-with-alts for roleplay reasons, I don't want to know that someone else has this number of alts, or that they have 'em at all. That takes away half the fun of reading someone and going, "Is that an alt? THEY WRITE SO WELL. THEY MUST BE AN ALT. WHO CAN IT BE. They sound like Callia! KES, IS IT CALLIA? Tell me already! LET US ANALYSE THEIR CONVERSATIONAL STYLE. Oh. No, Callia just said it's not her. Hmn. Maybe they are just an exceptional rookie. Ebennnnnnnnnnn... Can I squeeze it out of you? Please? Please?"

Guessing is half the fun. Making people guess is the other half. The relief of being someone entirely different from a character you've previously set up is the third half. Yes. Three halves. I'm repeating what other, more lucid people have said- Calli being an example, Escemfer and G_rock being others- but it takes away one whole half of the fun if a rookie comes along and a little note informs you in their bio that they are actually an alt. No, two halves.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 31 2011 @ 10:07 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

There was one thing I was confused about in this discussion - There were some mentions of playing alts, either in the same clan, or different clans, as a way to farm resources - While I realize that with a second character you get twice as many game days, The actual amount of work a character does isn't decreased if the character is played by one player or another (Unless one player's a psychotic minmaxer and the other's a casual player, but DETAILS). I know there are a FEW events that you can use to get items per day, but really, are two or three cigs a day going to tip the scales? Is there something here I'm missing that makes having alts in a clan ridiculously unbalanced?
On the topic of alts, but veering slightly to the side to visit a tourist trap along the line of thought here...
Improbable Island seems like it's very much not about the game. Yes, there are people for which it is, but a lot of people are here for the community, to talk, to roleplay, and generally share their creations. To this end, I can't even see a problem with the issue of resource funneling via alts - If a player can figure out a way to use a second character that keeps them in enough money that their main is never short on One-Shots (At the cost of a penny per trade, no less), speeding along dwelling building, does that really give them an "unfair advantage?" So they have a few extra rooms built before another person.
The concept of an unfair advantage is based on the idea that there is a level of competition in the player base where spending time doing one thing and not another would put the player at a detriment, either gameplay-wise or when compared to other players. This really doesn't seem like the case. Yes, there are ways that a player could cheat and do things to get themselves extra cigs, or have 50k req on the beginning of a Rank 7 DK, but there are always ways to do that, both 'legal' and 'illegal.' I know that there are some players who have friendly rivalries going on with things (Getting to Level 100 logging first, race to complete a DK, whatever), but policing how the players in these rivalries get their materials/funding seems like it should be more up to the players in the competitions. If player A uses an alt to start their DK off with 10k more than Player B in the competition, how is that any more or less fair than player C donating a fiver and getting a bag of req? Or if player D asked player E to hold onto some crates for them at the end of their DK so they could pick them up at the beginning of the next?
I realize the topic here is (I believe) more about people just being dicks and not playing like dicks, but this has been running in the back of my head a while.


Re: Alts

Posted on: March 31 2011 @ 12:44 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Beeps, as someone who plays the game primarily for the game, I can vouch that the idea of fair competition still exists in Improbable Island. As for bags of req, I completely ignore their existence, along with cartons of cigs. Paying for cosmetic features is a fine way to fund the developer, paying for an in-game advantage breaks the spirit of fair play. When I get to 100 Stonecutting, I'm going to say, "Heck yeah, I'm one of the top stonecutters and I'm probably the only one who didn't use a Builder's Brew to get here." On the flip side of the token, it's quite likely that the top stonecutters who did use Builder's Brews did so because they weren't trying to engage in some character-skill-developing-competition, they just wanted their awesome buildings constructed quickly.

With such dual aspect in the game, I can entertain the idea of having the Builder's Brews--you use them "knowing" that you're disqualified from that particular leaderboard, because you're trying to facilitate your RP experience instead.


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