Subject: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 13 2011 @ 11:45 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

There is an ENORMOUS discrepancy between New Pittsburgh and Kittania in terms of population. Seriously. The outpost HP should illustrate it.

- New Pittsburgh is regularly breached. (Although not nearly as much as before the Onslaught nerf)

- Kittania has 92 million Outpost hit-points.







Why?





(1)

When new players come into the game, they're humans starting at NewHome. Generally, they're pointed to the Museum Quest, which is a device to get the player to explore the Island.

With the World Map, the unknown stops being dangerous--or rather, the danger is no longer unknown. There's no fear of being stranded with too little stamina if you make easy judgements, since again, you know the distance to the next city.

But before the World Map, besides having the Museum quest, I found that in general, the zone I kept to as a newbie was the Newhome - Imp Central - Kittania triangle, even though the reality of the situation is that the other places are not too far away. The city furthest from any other city is CC404, and the real part that makes it an intensive journey is the amount of stamina that Mountain takes rather than the amount of squares.

I don't think equalizing the distance of NP to IC and KT to IC (or NP to NH and KT to NH) is going to solve the problem. Travel costs are negligible. Less so in the beginning, but overall negligible.

(2)

After one's first Drive Kill, one has the option of picking Zombie or Kittymorph. I picked Zombie because I enjoy the more grotesque side of undead archetypes--not vampires (no, this is not a Twilight revulsion thing, I was never into Dracula classy side either) or evil child apparitions, but ghouls and mummies and abominations. However, I imagine that more people pick Kittymorph, because when a game offers the ability to be a cat-person, a lot of people like to have cat ears. (If I could get statistics on the amount of Kittymorphs versus Zombies, or even 2nd DK Zombies versus 2nd DK Kittymorphs (which is probably not kept track of), that'd be nice.)

But I don't think Kittymorph versus Zombie is the major reason that accounts for the difference of Kittania versus New Pittsburgh.

(3)

One of the main reasons I'm sure Kittania is more popular than New Pittsburgh is STEAK. Kittania has a food item that doesn't fatten you but fills you up efficiently for its cost. It's second in food quality only to Pleasantville. New Pittsburgh, on the other hand, has shit for food. I don't think any of the choices there are non-fattening.

It'd be nice thematically, except there's no game advantage to fattening yourself up. All it is is a stamina loss. There's no added mass behind your attacks or absorption of impact. I believe food to be the primary factor to why Kittania is so much more populated than New Pittsburgh.

(4)

It is only after that primary driving force that we can consider things like RP convenience. People like to go to populated places in order to find people to talk to. The number of people who like to do this, I observed only anecdotally, far outnumber the people who like to go to isolated and low-populated places for a more intimate or slow RP.

This is a vicious cycle issue, and trying to fix the population discrepancy at this level won't be very effective.









Why is equal population distribution important?



Maybe it's not. But I'd like it if there were more people spread around, as that would really solve the whole Onslaught problem. (Which I still find enjoyable. NP and CC404 are the "challenging" cities, it seems.)



Replies:

Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 14 2011 @ 03:24 AM
By: Fox+Kelfonne

Content:

Kittania has the 500 req steaks.

Also, in my case it's also 4 map tiles from home, so it's convenient.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 14 2011 @ 03:55 AM
By: Raimar

Content:

Quote by: Fox+Kelfonne

Also, in my case it's also 4 map tiles from home, so it's convenient.



But people also have homes closer than that to the further outposts; I myself have one 3 from CC404 and Acehigh.
But I agree; food does seem to be the major factor.
Perhaps a way to remedy the distribution problem could be a)more city-specific quests/add-ons (such as Cuthberts', or Dans quests), or b)each race would get a bonus from their own food.

Possible? Or would this cause more problems than it would solve?


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 14 2011 @ 09:26 AM
By: Sonny

Content:

Indeed. Zombies not getting fat from brains would the obvious thing and more coded quests would be nice.

But the new places are already enough work and maybe the players can do something themselves. Quests, games, whatever, to send newer players to other areas of the island.

Btw: NewPitts has very very nice drinks!


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 14 2011 @ 02:50 PM
By: talkydoor

Content:

If anybody's counting, I was kittymorph second, and oh how I regretted it. I don't think anything since has been so difficult.

Personally, I spend more time at NP than K, but that's partly because of Danquests (as he doesn't seem to like Kittania very much. Or maybe he does. One or the other) and partly because it's far easier to travel from for crate and titan hunting. I don't visit Kittania unless I have to, because PV has better food and is more accessible. Maybe that's just my short legs.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 15 2011 @ 12:01 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Some pretty pictures:





The second chart shows race-choice totals for characters with 14 to 334 DKs... players who have presumably had a chance to try any races that appeal to them. The high number of Jokers amongst higher-DK players is probably due in equal parts to cool image and unpredictable (hence non-routine) game play, but each race has its followers.

(Note: it's not terribly informative to chart absolute numbers because of The Shape of The Game that I mentioned in another thread. The scale is skewed by large numbers at the low-DK end and wide scattering at the upper end. It's maybe worth mentioning that at the very top end -- over 150 DKs -- the percentages shift to 40% Midget and 30% Joker.)

In any case... these figures pretty clearly demolish 'popularity of the races' as an explanation for why NP is near-abandoned.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 15 2011 @ 05:29 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

I doubt it has anything to do with steak or travel or anything from a game standpoint. Rather:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

However, I imagine that more people pick Kittymorph, because when a game offers the ability to be a cat-person, a lot of people like to have cat ears.


This is entirely the reason. I don't mean to be abrasive, but come on, let's not kid ourselves.

edit: I don't mean to judge you kittymorph players out there; in fact, I quite like it myself and I'll admit I chose it my second DK, too.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 16 2011 @ 02:52 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Sessine, I love these graphs. Not only are they very pretty (they are very pretty though!), but they're DATA, and I love DATA. Data is very telling and speaks stronger than any anecdotal conjecture, which is what's almost always relied on when the data is not available (at least, that's what I think based on my observations, since I don't have any statistical data on it Razz )

While yes, Kittymorph is chosen much more than Zombie after the first DK, people don't remain majority Kittymorph as they unlock more races up to the 12th that gives players their Joker.

However, the Top End that you mentioned, Sessine, isn't useful for this particular discussion since that only represents the more combat-oriented players than the bulk of the regulars. Midget is fastest for DKs, so it's clear why they're 40% of the DKs up there. Instead, the second graph IS telling: nearly 1/5 of the bulk of players who are going to stay in the game (I am assuming most players who get past 14 DKs intend on continuing to play the game) are Kittymorphs. That strengthens (though does not prove) the theory that a lot of the population of Kittania is simply because they're Kittymorphs who are staying around their home city.

And I agree with Matthew, that it's probably because they have cat ears. Wink

I thought it would be steak for the powerplayers, but those players are probably hanging around Pleasantville I guess?

So now what seems like the most effective way of getting migrants to New Pittsburgh?


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 16 2011 @ 03:30 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

So now what seems like the most effective way of getting migrants to New Pittsburgh?

Beats me. If they won't go there for those amazing drinks, I don't know what will do it.

My thinking was that if a race being a popular choice could suffice to keep an outpost safe, AceHigh ought never to be in danger! But, of course, there are overlapping factors, not one single cause. The players in the second graph don't have to hang about their home outpost... and mostly, they don't. They fight where the food's good, or where their Danquest sent them, or where they're socializing with friends in Banter, or where their RP scene is happening.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 16 2011 @ 11:24 AM
By: Daedalus

Content:

Err ... before spending a lot of time finding a solution, might I ask: "Is this actually a problem?".

I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm not entirely convinced that it is.

And if it is, is it a big enough problem to warrant a significant amount of work?

Just thinking out loud really.

D.



Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 16 2011 @ 12:22 PM
By: Caleb

Content:

Drinks have never been a particularly big draw for me. I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but at ~150 DKs, the number of monsters I have to kill to get through a level means that stopping every twenty to thirty rounds to drop by the pub and refill on drinks would be a right pain, and I'd rather be in PV filling up on good food in any case. They're not much use on the really high ranks, either, where I find I'm relying more on the base damage done by a weapon such as the Debris Thrower or Cat Launcher than any buffable bonus to my attack like you get from the Sun Gun. Maybe they'd be more useful for a player with few DKs attempting a high rank, but I still don't think they'd provide enough draw if not backed up by some source of good food.

On a straight comparison, Kittania has New Pitts beaten hands down in pretty much every area: it's more easily accessible from IC and NH; it's one of the first places new players are pointed to; it's got the second best food in the game and perfectly adequate drinks on top; and it isn't stuck behind a honking great estuary, which provides both an impediment to travel between IC and NP and a lovely visual barrier separating NP/SH and IC/NH/KT on the world map.

There's also the fact that KT is the best source of food in its neighbourhood, whereas NP is most definitely not. Anybody starting in NP/SH will most likely migrate to PV and hang around there instead, because that's where the good grub is. I guess if you really wanted to spread population distribution more evenly you'd make each place have food with its own perks and drawbacks, instead of 'HERE IS BEST FOOD, HERE IS LESS GOOD' which presents something of a no-brainer to your average combat-oriented player. (And even the dedicated RPers to some extent, I s'pose; can't build Places on empty stomachs.)


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 16 2011 @ 04:07 PM
By: Adder+Moray

Content:

It's a combination of food and Kittymorphs. Almost no one mains Zombies. Most people usually main Jokers or Kittymorphs. There are some of us Human players, and a couple of Midgets. Zombies and Mutants don't get much love but PVille has the best food in the game.

Edit: Oh hey, Sessine put up a chart of exactly what I was pointing out on the last page. Go look at that. Though the conclusion is different than mine. Opposite in fact.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 16 2011 @ 04:31 PM
By: Adder+Moray

Content:

Was editing my last post to include this but ran out of time:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Some pretty pictures:

In any case... these figures pretty clearly demolish 'popularity of the races' as an explanation for why NP is near-abandoned.



I wouldn't think so. Popularity of race may not be the deciding factor in why an outpost is occupied, but I'd say it has a pretty big effect on why one is deserted.

Look at it this way:

PVille has the best steaks, Ace High is a hop-skip-and-a-jump away from PVille, which is itself a hop-skip-and-a-jump away from Kitt. Squathole is in the same boat. Those populations migrate and hole-up there, having little incentive to stay home. This creates even less incentive to stay home since the places now lack not only good food, but a decent sized population to interact with at any given time.

Kittania has the 2nd best steaks and the 2nd largest population of the native species on the island. Until you're ready to level there really isn't much incentive to leaving. On top of that it's the 2nd easiest outpost to get to from both NH AND IC, and the 3rd easiest to get to from PVille (and with the other two having bad/no food and being deserted...). And with all those people the place is constantly buzzing, which is great if you like that sort of thing.

NP has all of the negatives of AH with the added negative of a minuscule native population. There's nothing tying anyone to stay there unless they have to because there's really nothing to do there which only means even fewer people stick around.

Basically I'm saying population is like the spark that starts the fire. If you don't have good tender, it's not going to burn to well, sure. But if you're lacking both tender AND that spark, well, you're SOL.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 16 2011 @ 05:53 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Adder+Moray

Was editing my last post to include this but ran out of time:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Some pretty pictures:

In any case... these figures pretty clearly demolish 'popularity of the races' as an explanation for why NP is near-abandoned.

I wouldn't think so. Popularity of race may not be the deciding factor in why an outpost is occupied, but I'd say it has a pretty big effect on why one is deserted.

Look at it this way:

PVille has the best steaks, Ace High is a hop-skip-and-a-jump away from PVille, which is itself a hop-skip-and-a-jump away from Kitt. Squathole is in the same boat. Those populations migrate and hole-up there, having little incentive to stay home. This creates even less incentive to stay home since the places now lack not only good food, but a decent sized population to interact with at any given time.

Kittania has the 2nd best steaks and the 2nd largest population of the native species on the island. Until you're ready to level there really isn't much incentive to leaving. On top of that it's the 2nd easiest outpost to get to from both NH AND IC, and the 3rd easiest to get to from PVille (and with the other two having bad/no food and being deserted...). And with all those people the place is constantly buzzing, which is great if you like that sort of thing.

NP has all of the negatives of AH with the added negative of a minuscule native population. There's nothing tying anyone to stay there unless they have to because there's really nothing to do there which only means even fewer people stick around.

Basically I'm saying population is like the spark that starts the fire. If you don't have good tender, it's not going to burn to well, sure. But if you're lacking both tender AND that spark, well, you're SOL.

All good points. Probably what I should have said is that the second chart demolishes popularity of the race as the sole explanation. Or even the predominant one! Because... look at it: mutants are only about as commonly chosen as zombies, but Pleasantville is never short of jungle fighters. And, as I mentioned above, AceHigh quite regularly gets into Interesting Times, even though more than half of the players in this group have picked J0ker as their race.

I think the most important cause of the relative safety of Kittania lies in graph 1. We have a large contingent of characters who never bother to advance beyond their first DK. They have their cool cat ears -- which is all they really want -- and there's a lively social scene in KT.

This means that the outpost is a social magnet for other players who... do want to fight in the jungle and advance up the DK chart, who may not be kittymorphs at all, who have pretty much free choice of which outpost they pick to fight in, but who also want to be able to hobnob with their friends in between fights. The food in Kittania is good enough to allow them a decent amount of fighting, and they also get to hang out.

That's a rather slight bond. More of a habit, really, than any sort of tie. It could be easily overridden by other motives that gave people reasons to shift to other outposts. Increased req payouts did make a significant dent in breaches. Food would certainly help, but not boring food that's only a repetition of what already exists.

Here's a thought -- suppose some hardy itinerant NPC on the Island spots a business opportunity. He or she has a Food Cart with really excellent food... yes, and even a sunlamp-recharge for robots! which moves to whichever outpost is most at risk. The prices are sky-high, sure... but the buyers will flock. Especially after those sniveling cowards in the regular shops lock their doors and hide under their tables!


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 16 2011 @ 06:21 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Food would certainly help, but not boring food that's only a repetition of what already exists


Really, the whole food system needs a rebalancing. 'The best food is here, and the rest of the outposts have shit nobody in their right mind would eat' isn't a system that would promote spreading between outposts, especially since food is such a huge part of jungle fighting. It wouldn't be the best solution, but short-term, I think giving every outpost the same food as PV (except with different names for flavor, naturally) would be better than how it is now.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 16 2011 @ 08:02 PM
By: Maniak

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

The players in the second graph don't have to hang about their home outpost... and mostly, they don't. They fight where the food's good, or where their Danquest sent them, or where they're socializing with friends in Banter, or where their RP scene is happening.



This. While gameplay factors might be the reason people went there in the first place, it's not the reason they're still there. It's because their friends are there. Or at least someone to socialize.

Kitt (and NewHome) is, at times severely, overpopulated. Three or more simultaneous 'scenes' isn't uncommon, and I can imagine the high pace puts off certain people. (For instance, slow typists, beginning roleplayers or people that like to revise their sentences over and over again *raises hand*.)

If there is a desire from those people for a slightly calmer setting, it's apparently not big enough to move away from Kittania or NewHome. Perhaps, as Daedalus says, it's probably not that big of a problem for most.

I'm often surprised by how busy New Pittsburgh gets once I start roleplaying there. It's not rare to have a scene start with two or three people and it balloons to five or six.

Do you want a populated New Pittsburgh? Reside there. Make friends. People will come and stay.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 12:52 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

I basically live at CC404, but that doesn't mean that CC404 has a sufficient population to keep Onslaught from being too much of a problem. Sure, I don't have many in-game friends, but still, when I'm around CC404, the only people I actually communicate with are other people who are working to shore up the walls against another swelling of jungle monsters. There are seldom any RPers who venture there because it is so far out of the way.

CC404 has plenty of perks--the easiest place to teleport to in order to get Stone for building, the Scrapyard, the Rally. But there's simply no food there, and it's far from any other outpost. And that's what I chalk up no one being at CC404 about.

And frankly, I think it's okay that CC404 is not as lively as the other cities, particularly because it is so far out of the way. Of all the cities, it seems designed to be the one with the most isolation and the slowest pace.

But NP is not isolated and it is just simply a problem for anyone who does want to go there because it's already breached when people want to go. That's the main reason why I'm saying the population distribution is currently a problem--I do agree, as I just said about CC404, that population imbalance is not inherently or by-nature a problem. Many small towns like their small-town nature and would hate changing towards an urban metropolis. But New Pitts suffers from Onslaught too much, and there's too little that's attractive enough to make people fix it for the players who need the Museum quest or a Danquest. That's why I think population is a problem for NP.

I picked Kittania as an example because it is ludicrously safe, so we could analyze the features that made it so desirable for the players to frequent there. Pleasantville is almost always safe as well, barring a time I remember when a Titan managed to knock down its 50 million hitpoint walls. Both these cities have the best food, so I believed that to be the reason of their safety.

I like Sessine's EXTREME FOOD CART idea that goes to the MOST DANGEROUS CITIES to give THE MOST EXTREMELY RESTORATIVE FOOD to the fighters. That way, power players will flock to the falling cities. I agree with Matt that the food system as a whole is terrible and needs to be looked at.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 03:38 AM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

A couple random ideas, just throwing them out:

Cap NH and Kitt's walls. They're far stronger than they need to be, and it would force those who want to grind their reinforcement to do so in a city that actually needs it. Obviously, this is not an overall solution, but it might help, a little. Or not.


Move the DK requirement for kitty to 4, or beyond. Could increase NP's population?


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 10:01 AM
By: Omega

Content:

Quote by: dizzyizzy

Move the DK requirement for kitty to 4, or beyond. Could increase NP's population?



I'm not quite sure that would be a good thing. The Kittymorphs are especially good at traveling and at not getting failboated. This makes them the best race for people who want to roleplay often without caring about the game aspect, you see...


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 01:09 PM
By: Rob+Anybody

Content:

I chose Zombie for my 3rd DK, and I've spent most of my time in New Pitts ever since.
Mostly because of the excellent drinks, decent food (brains brains brains brains and spam are quite ok), and the steady flow of cards from sources nearby. Although that changed a bit in the switch from dwellings to places.
Although it does feel a bit odd to see that when the outpost is really in danger of beeing breached there are only 2 or 3 people there to defend it. Perhaps some incentive for helping an outpost in need could change the "I'm not there so I don't care" mentality


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 03:52 PM
By: Sneaky

Content:

Why don't the zombies actually help one another?

We see it happening prominently whenever New Pittsburgh is under attack but it doesn't really go anywhere. It's just a plot device; you stupid monsters can only really invade the ghost town when no one is in it anymore.

Beyond a few bonuses, all the Zombie's got going for it is eating without cooking or butchering. You can't control what you eat (and stay healthy) without remembering what tastes best. The butchering bonus is great for selling the meat later, but that's about it.

It would be great if, while in New Pittsburgh (or any square with sufficient amounts of online Zombie players; not just Outposts for the clever) there were a bonus for fighting as a Zombie. This bonus would be higher while fighting in New Pittsburgh itself, and rise incrementally while it's being raided (until the outpost is breached). Other zombies (or even player names) would show up and deal a small amount of minion (auto) damage each round a particular player's in combat. There could even be random events where a butchering or feasting player could share their meat with a wandering Zombie NPC (for a possible sale quicker than actually traveling, or they'd just lose their meat at worst).


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 04:14 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Rob+Anybody

I chose Zombie for my 3rd DK, and I've spent most of my time in New Pitts ever since.
Mostly because of the excellent drinks, decent food (brains brains brains brains and spam are quite ok), and the steady flow of cards from sources nearby. Although that changed a bit in the switch from dwellings to places.
Although it does feel a bit odd to see that when the outpost is really in danger of beeing breached there are only 2 or 3 people there to defend it. Perhaps some incentive for helping an outpost in need could change the "I'm not there so I don't care" mentality



The food isn't decent when you're living on steaks normally. Both the Kittania and Pleasantville steaks give you loads of stamina and lots of nutrition without any fat. All the menu of BRAINS is full of fat (brains are full of cholesterol in real life meals, I think) so while you get the nutrition, you also lose that bonus from your fatness.

We've already done some incentives like the increased requisition payouts in dangerous outposts. It'll take an extreme reward, it seems, to get players to leave what they're normally doing and go help a falling outpost instead.

That's why I think it's more effective to make the city more regularly populated in the first place than try to draw defenders only when the city needs it.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 05:43 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Quote by: Omega

Quote by: dizzyizzy

Move the DK requirement for kitty to 4, or beyond. Could increase NP's population?



I'm not quite sure that would be a good thing. The Kittymorphs are especially good at traveling and at not getting failboated. This makes them the best race for people who want to roleplay often without caring about the game aspect, you see...



Well, that's the point. Shooting some of the new players over to NP would be beneficial for the outposts, and, based on sessine's graph, they'd also try out Midget on their third DK, it would help get them acclimated to the gameplay aspect before they stall for RP.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 06:48 PM
By: Omega

Content:

Quote by: dizzyizzy


Well, that's the point. Shooting some of the new players over to NP would be beneficial for the outposts, and, based on sessine's graph, they'd also try out Midget on their third DK, it would help get them acclimated to the gameplay aspect before they stall for RP.



But you're not seeing my point. This is a game. The players should do what they want, instead of what they SHOULD do. If they don't feel like fighting, some might quit because the game is boring and hard to role-play in. Others might feel unwell. I know people who only have two drive kills and never got any more because Kittymorph is enough for their taste.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 08:02 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Omega's right. People who want to play a Kittymorph cannot be coerced into playing something else.

Lured, yes, that's all right. "Ooh, shiny! New toy!" But it's a big Internet out there, and the Island doesn't have any way to keep people logging in if they're not having fun. There's always something else to do only a mouse-click away.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 08:35 PM
By: Sneaky

Content:

It would be nicer if it felt less like a 'label' and more like 'i'm a zombie, I wreck stuff'. There's no pack mentality, for good or ill. Just a generic bonus. It's a Human that starts with a Spork and gets no Grenades.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 17 2011 @ 09:39 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Omega's right. People who want to play a Kittymorph cannot be coerced into playing something else.

Lured, yes, that's all right. "Ooh, shiny! New toy!" But it's a big Internet out there, and the Island doesn't have any way to keep people logging in if they're not having fun. There's always something else to do only a mouse-click away.



Then why have DK limits for races at all? Just let rookies play jokers, if that's what they want to do. God forbid there be any longer-tem goals to work towards that have a reward more than an extra digit in the DK count.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 18 2011 @ 04:06 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Sessine and Omega, I have to say that Dizzyizzy has a good suggestion and a good point. Don't take "people should do what they want to do" too far--I will tell you flat out that people will get bored and move on. Games have constraints for you to play within. They're there because they help form the direction of your play and you enjoy it as you go through its course.

Seriously, I'm not some crotchety old man who thinks people shouldn't have fun. But the idea that everyone should be able to do whatever they want in a game with no effort--not work, effort--means you have a game that doesn't appeal to people who enjoy a challenge of any sort.

The idea that you can't move the DK requirement for Kittymorph access is very short-sighted. "It's doing great where it is--don't change it!" Yes, you may seen players who DK only once and stay Kittymorph forever. But you know, maybe a high percentage of those people will be fine DKing 3 times and then staying a Kittymorph forever at that point. And maybe others will get to try out Zombie or Midget and say, "Hey, waitaminute, combat is a very fun part of the game too! I'm gonna be doing fast DKs with Midget more often!"

No one is coercing anyone to do anything on the game. Not a single person can be coerced to do anything on a game website. Moving the Kittymorph requirement to 4 DKs in order to rebalance the distribution of population in the game is a legitimate change that a developer can do if he or she thinks a redistribution of population would be better for any variety of reasons, whatever they may be. There is no coercing involved.

Dizzyizzy makes a succinct argument. If moving the DK limit of Kittymorph up to 4 is coercing players to do things they don't like, we might as well throw out the awfully gestapo-worthy twelve! DK requirement for Jokers, especially because of that graph indicating the enormous popularity of Jokers.

If you can't tell, I found the use of the term "coerce" highly improper in characterizing Dizzy's suggestion.

What all of us seem to want, is the same thing: luring people to play in New Pittsburgh more in order to prevent its fall from the Onslaught more. Nerfing Onslaught is not what I want because I enjoy it on the whole. Stopping people from roleplaying is not my end goal. Getting people to participate in combat more is something I support. I want all of this clear because I don't think there should be any big divide between people in this thread.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 18 2011 @ 05:40 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Sessine and Omega, I have to say that Dizzyizzy has a good suggestion and a good point. Don't take "people should do what they want to do" too far--I will tell you flat out that people will get bored and move on. Games have constraints for you to play within. They're there because they help form the direction of your play and you enjoy it as you go through its course.

Seriously, I'm not some crotchety old man who thinks people shouldn't have fun. But the idea that everyone should be able to do whatever they want in a game with no effort--not work, effort--means you have a game that doesn't appeal to people who enjoy a challenge of any sort.

The idea that you can't move the DK requirement for Kittymorph access is very short-sighted. "It's doing great where it is--don't change it!" Yes, you may seen players who DK only once and stay Kittymorph forever. But you know, maybe a high percentage of those people will be fine DKing 3 times and then staying a Kittymorph forever at that point. And maybe others will get to try out Zombie or Midget and say, "Hey, waitaminute, combat is a very fun part of the game too! I'm gonna be doing fast DKs with Midget more often!"

No one is coercing anyone to do anything on the game. Not a single person can be coerced to do anything on a game website. Moving the Kittymorph requirement to 4 DKs in order to rebalance the distribution of population in the game is a legitimate change that a developer can do if he or she thinks a redistribution of population would be better for any variety of reasons, whatever they may be. There is no coercing involved.

Dizzyizzy makes a succinct argument. If moving the DK limit of Kittymorph up to 4 is coercing players to do things they don't like, we might as well throw out the awfully gestapo-worthy twelve! DK requirement for Jokers, especially because of that graph indicating the enormous popularity of Jokers.

If you can't tell, I found the use of the term "coerce" highly improper in characterizing Dizzy's suggestion.

What all of us seem to want, is the same thing: luring people to play in New Pittsburgh more in order to prevent its fall from the Onslaught more. Nerfing Onslaught is not what I want because I enjoy it on the whole. Stopping people from roleplaying is not my end goal. Getting people to participate in combat more is something I support. I want all of this clear because I don't think there should be any big divide between people in this thread.

Points well made, Fred. I withdraw the word coerce, and apologize.

I'm wondering about how effective the proposed change would be. It wouldn't affect any of the people who have already reached Kittymorph and stopped. Only new people coming in. I suppose we could just shrug off the inevitable, "Hey, how come she gets to be a Kittymorph with only one DK? Why do I have to wait for my fourth DK?"

Another interesting thought experiment: I wonder what would happen if the choices after the first DK were Zombie and Midget?


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 18 2011 @ 07:59 AM
By: LadyRavenSkye

Content:

I'm personally for a raise in the limit on DK's, but it doesn't seem a favorable option, but that's just my opinion.


What I think would work is more quests. Not Dan's quests, those irk a lot of the people I talk to, and I know a few people who've been looking for months for their quest beast. Something special you can only unlock as a zombie, and it's random chance, and might not happen the first time you're a zombie, and offering a shiny medal for it too? People like medals!


I do like zombies, I don't remember the last time I played one though. Must of been months ago, if not a full year. My favorite option, and only reason I'd go back to being one is the MEEEEEAAAAAT. Skye's not a zombie, and I had trouble then writing her as one, and it would be a pain writing her as one again.


I know zombies aren't all that bad, Darling plays a wonderful zombie! And Makiwa (These are just two people I'm listing off the top of my head. It's 4AM, and I know many people who write wonderful zombies). It just seems to me, as I play a majority for the RP, is that Zombies don't have the sex-appeal a bouncy, fluffy, naked kittymorph does.
Think of a bouncy, naked zombie for a minute as they fall apart upon landing... Yup, get that image in there... It doesn't sell very well, does it?

Maybe... MAYBE NewPitts... needs it's own massage parlor.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 18 2011 @ 09:30 AM
By: Maniak

Content:

Quote by: LadyRavenSkye

Not Dan's quests, those irk a lot of the people I talk to, and I know a few people who've been looking for months for their quest beast.


They're not jungling then. Or in the wrong outpost. Simple as that.

Quote by: LadyRavenSkye

It just seems to me, as I play a majority for the RP, is that Zombies don't have the sex-appeal a bouncy, fluffy, naked kittymorph does. Think of a bouncy, naked zombie for a minute as they fall apart upon landing... Yup, get that image in there... It doesn't sell very well, does it?


I'm sorry, what? A creature that licks its own arse to get clean isn't very sexually appealing to me, but maybe that's because I'm the weirdo. Me, I'd go for something more humanoid. Even if it's dead. Something like a zombie that can detach its limbs? Hawt. Or how about a tentacle mutant? They sell very well, don't they? BRB, making an alt to stalk the bordello.

Anyway. *rubs hands clean on a dirty towel* Where was I?

How about a re-balancing of the races? If Joker, Midget and Kittymorph are the most prevalent choices, perhaps they need a shuffle. Robots could use an upgrade. Zombies too, I suppose. Kittymorphs are pretty overpowered. I'd be very very happy to see the Watcher-endorsed Nudity bonus go. (Seriously. Enough with the glomping already. It isn't cute.)


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 18 2011 @ 09:56 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Another interesting thought experiment: I wonder what would happen if the choices after the first DK were Zombie and Midget?



We'd probably see a whole lot more humans. Either descriptor (Zombie, Midget) isn't exactly flattering. Kittymorph is an appealing race even with the fluffy lore of it besides; a hefty travel bonus is appealing even to people who only RP, and the Claws bonus is good for batting away those pesky monsters that they're most definitely not here for. I agree that the races need a serious re-examining; maybe not new ones or less options, I think the ones that are already here are a fairly good variety, but if you're not one of the Big Three (Joker, Kittymorph, Midget) you're pretty much intentionally hindering yourself.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 18 2011 @ 12:35 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: Omega

Quote by: dizzyizzy

Move the DK requirement for kitty to 4, or beyond. Could increase NP's population?



I'm not quite sure that would be a good thing. The Kittymorphs are especially good at traveling and at not getting failboated. This makes them the best race for people who want to roleplay often without caring about the game aspect, you see...



Not convinced by that. I think that most role players game play kittymorphs because they want to role play kittymorphs. It feels better when you can fit in like that. I like midgets, and my midget RP characters are all midget GP characters.

Incidently, I rarely have any trouble getting to where I want to go because of it either.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 19 2011 @ 02:49 AM
By: LadyRavenSkye

Content:

Quote by: Maniak


I'm sorry, what? A creature that licks its own arse to get clean isn't very sexually appealing to me, but maybe that's because I'm the weirdo.



http://rentmovie.com/movie-posters/cat-girl-nuku-nuku-5.jpg This. I don't find it appealing either, but it's what people are thinking about and that's even a clean image.

Despite you being an asshat there, I do agree with the re-balancing of the races; but that would be season 3 talk, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 19 2011 @ 04:29 AM
By: Adder+Moray

Content:

Quote by: LadyRavenSkye

Quote by: Maniak


I'm sorry, what? A creature that licks its own arse to get clean isn't very sexually appealing to me, but maybe that's because I'm the weirdo.



http://rentmovie.com/movie-posters/cat-girl-nuku-nuku-5.jpg This. I don't find it appealing either, but it's what people are thinking about and that's even a clean image.



Would have thought you'd go for someone more traditional/famous/fetishfueling

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Darkstalkers-felicia.png

Figure, that or some variation of that, is driving at least 20% of all Kittymorphs.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 19 2011 @ 05:44 AM
By: LadyRavenSkye

Content:

Quote by: Adder+Moray

Quote by: LadyRavenSkye

Quote by: Maniak


I'm sorry, what? A creature that licks its own arse to get clean isn't very sexually appealing to me, but maybe that's because I'm the weirdo.



http://rentmovie.com/movie-posters/cat-girl-nuku-nuku-5.jpg This. I don't find it appealing either, but it's what people are thinking about and that's even a clean image.



Would have thought you'd go for someone more traditional/famous/fetishfueling

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Darkstalkers-felicia.png

Figure, that or some variation of that, is driving at least 20% of all Kittymorphs.



I was going for a less sultry image... But then we are all adults here: http://tomatodragon.deviantart.com/art/Golden-Anthro-Kitty-68209740


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 20 2011 @ 05:10 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

To be fair, not everyone who picks KittyMorphs picks them because of the implied (or rather, pretty much thrust at us) sexuality of the race.

Dave, for instance, is a KittyMorph because he's...well...a cartoon. In the classic Warner Brothers Looney Toons sense. And that's really the race that I feel exemplifies that the most. Although he's a Joker at all times, because IMO, Joker is a State of Mind (at least, once you've been around long enough). I wish I could see statistics of what DKs I've done, at what ranks, as what race...you'd probably find maybe 3 or 4 zombie runs, I think 1 or 2 mutant, a bunch of Midget, 4 or 5 human, and the rest split between Kitty and Joker. It's really more the cat's curiosity and the Joker's Mischievous nature that draws me (him? us?) to those races. I guess he could be called a "Jokermorph" as that's the classic definition, but I prefer to call him a KittyMorph that just happens to be a Joker.

And yes, he runs around naked, but that's more a convenience thing, and the only contestant worried about his Nudity (as far as he, or I, for that matter, is/are aware of) is Ari, whom he's happily married to.

BUT BACK ON TOPIC!

I don't know that there's really a way to draw people to New Pitts...it kind of feels like it, like CC404, should, to some extent, be a ghost town. I think the right fix would be to have Onslaught ignore unpopulated towns more, and have Kitt and PV be in danger more.

As far as Sessine's "wandering food cart" idea...
"1000 req for a Sausage-inna-bun. And that's Cuttin' Me Own Throat..."


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 20 2011 @ 06:36 PM
By: Rob+Anybody

Content:

As far as Sessine's "wandering food cart" idea...
"1000 req for a Sausage-inna-bun. And that's Cuttin' Me Own Throat..."[/p]


I'd rather have something less 'organic' and somewhat healthier than CMOT Dibbler's 'sausage inna bun'..
It would be interesting if Zombies actually got a bonus from eating loads of brains, instead of just going fat. Also adding something that is special for the town itself might help. I mean, CC has the factory, Squat has the massage parlour, etc.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 20 2011 @ 07:26 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Rob+Anybody

As far as Sessine's "wandering food cart" idea...
"1000 req for a Sausage-inna-bun. And that's Cuttin' Me Own Throat..."

I'd rather have something less 'organic' and somewhat healthier than CMOT Dibbler's 'sausage inna bun'..
It would be interesting if Zombies actually got a bonus from eating loads of brains, instead of just going fat. Also adding something that is special for the town itself might help. I mean, CC has the factory, Squat has the massage parlour, etc.


Well the idea for the CMOT Dibbler as the wandering cart vendor would be less "healthy" food and more along the lines of "Damnit, that wasn't what I wanted at all! Now I'm pissed!" and get a bonus to attack for a while...so food that acts sort of between restaurant food and pub drinks...


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 21 2011 @ 09:42 PM
By: Temper

Content:

So yes, coming to respond to things a bit late.
I am wildly against changing the DK requirements. For anything. There's a point, I think, to Jokers needing so much time to reach. Because they're so cool and powerful. For me, I see the 12 DKs as a chance for new players to mess around as races, and maybe see some of the veterans, and how they play, before "Oh my god, sudden power, I am the powerrrr." and whatnot. Okay, okay, I know, some people (like me, sadly) need a bit more... bashing about the head before we learn to play nice. But it's there as a chance to learn, I think, and I like it that way. As far as making the kittymorph harder to get to... I don't know that it would change much. I mean, yes, try out other characters, but everyone's going to tromp on over to PV and Kit just like they normally do. It's a habit, and the food rather needs to be fixed.

As far as interesting people in playing the other races, I really like the idea of race-specific quests. At least it would be an incentive for people to try being the zombies and the mutants and the robots. Myself, I don't understand why there aren't more mutants, because you basically get free hand in being what you want (mutants are my favorite NPCs to run into, just for that reason).

As far as tweaking the races go, maybe make kittymorphs able to eat a bit less, and make zombies run through being fat that much quicker? Also, a robot-exclusive place to power up their energy(read as: stamina) to an extent at CC would be nice. Might help get rid of my instinctive knee-jerk reaction to being one. They're fun to RP... But man, they're not so great at fighting unless you master the overclocking. Which I've never been able to do, because I'm lazy and there are easier options out there. And didn't we get rid of Gobots because they were just too awful? As a Season 3 change... Maybe move Kittania a little further away from NewHome? Switch it with NP, even. Weirder things have happened on the Island. Well, there's my two cents (strictly in monopoly money, of course.)


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: September 22 2011 @ 07:19 PM
By: thryn

Content:

I've not changed Zai from Human yet -- I might do it this DK, but wanted to hold off until I thought I'd be comfortable playing her as something else -- but from this thread, I'm getting the impression that the stam/fat effects of the various foods are the same regardless of what race one is playing. If that's true, tweaking that might entice more zombies to stay in NP, etc. For my part, I loooooove the drinks in NP, but I usually go there, drink up, and leave, unless I'm Danquesting.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 03 2011 @ 08:15 AM
By: wvf

Content:

I think the big draw to Kittania is that it's /nice/ there. Mutant, Midget, and Zombie are all rather negative races to play. Human and Robot are neutral, and only the Joker and the Kittymorph are positive. Between Jokers and Kittymorphs, I'd say Kitties are the funner race. They lounge around all day talking with their friends and being relaxed. They don't have worries or cares. What could be better? This is reflected in Kittania's description and surrounding player-written buildings. They're almost universally nice, clean, welcoming places. It's just the culture of the city.

Quote by: dizzyizzy


Then why have DK limits for races at all? Just let rookies play jokers, if that's what they want to do. God forbid there be any longer-tem goals to work towards that have a reward more than an extra digit in the DK count.


In contrast to Kittymorphs, Jokers are a bit edgier. They're more threatening; they are a bit more aloof. (Hell, what isn't a bit more aloof than a Kittymorph? Rolling Eyes ) Jokers are powerful, mysterious, and they're a bit stranger. However, it's crucial to the Joker image that it's kind of hard to get to them. By allowing only experienced players at them, they are just much more classy as a race. They don't make noob mistakes. They're on top of it. It's part of the Joker to be kind of world-savvy. Cool In a game, it's OK to have things that are harder to get. Jokers are not impossible - it's only a few drive kills - but they are enough to be rarer.

There is also, playing in Kittania, a bit of a safe haven feeling. The world, with it's monsters and mutants and midgets, is largely at bay in Kittania. Ideally, when playing a rather escapist game, one escapes to a _nicer_ reality. Kittania is, simply put, the safest, warmest, fuzziest place on the island, and it's nice to spend time there.

I support the two-dk-for-kittymorph, since... hell, I think it's a great stay for Improbable Island. Moving it up would feel... wrong, I think. Improbable Island is, overall, a rather dark game when I think about it. Kittania is the light spot of relief in it, and I think it's nice to show people that early on. Not everyone wants to play a mutated horror. Some people are just too sunny. Big Grin

There is something I was avoiding, but Adder+Moray says it very nicely.
Quote by: Adder+Moray

Quote by: LadyRavenSkye

Quote by: Maniak


I'm sorry, what? A creature that licks its own arse to get clean isn't very sexually appealing to me, but maybe that's because I'm the weirdo.



http://rentmovie.com/movie-posters/cat-girl-nuku-nuku-5.jpg This. I don't find it appealing either, but it's what people are thinking about and that's even a clean image.



Would have thought you'd go for someone more traditional/famous/fetishfueling

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Darkstalkers-felicia.png

Figure, that or some variation of that, is driving at least 20% of all Kittymorphs.

Of course, I'd say closer to 70% at least have LadyRavenSkye image's in the back of their mind. Wink I don't think you can be a kittymorph and not be influenced by the trope.



P.S.
Quote by: tehdave


"1000 req for a Sausage-inna-bun. And that's Cuttin' Me Own Throat..."

You're now officially marked down as 'great' in my books. Congrats. Razz


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 03 2011 @ 10:11 AM
By: spandex

Content:

Would it work to have the critical things distributed around the outposts, and only available in each? Sheila's, food, eboys, building supplies, etc?


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 03 2011 @ 10:36 AM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: wvf

Quote by: Adder+Moray

Quote by: LadyRavenSkye

url=http://rentmovie.com/movie-posters/cat-girl-nuku-nuku-5.jpg]http://rentmovie.com/movie-posters/cat-girl-nuku-nuku-5.jpg[/url] This. I don't find it appealing either, but it's what people are thinking about and that's even a clean image.



Would have thought you'd go for someone more traditional/famous/fetishfueling

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Darkstalkers-felicia.png

Figure, that or some variation of that, is driving at least 20% of all Kittymorphs.

Of course, I'd say closer to 70% at least have LadyRavenSkye image's in the back of their mind. Wink I don't think you can be a kittymorph and not be influenced by the trope.



If you're inspired by cats, then there's lots of cliches that you can pick on. What about the nose-in-the-air cat that disdainfully allows their staff* to feed them, as a display of divine grace and favour? Does anybody remember 'Old fat smelly tom-cat Bernard'? But people mostly want the cutesy cutesy kitten.


*Dogs have owners, cats have staff.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 03 2011 @ 12:41 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: wvf

However, it's crucial to the Joker image that it's kind of hard to get to them. By allowing only experienced players at them, they are just much more classy as a race. They don't make noob mistakes. They're on top of it. It's part of the Joker to be kind of world-savvy. Cool In a game, it's OK to have things that are harder to get. Jokers are not impossible - it's only a few drive kills - but they are enough to be rarer.



Except they kind of aren't rare at all. Jokers being everywhere seem a bit contrary to the entire point of the race, or at least so it seems to me. I don't know, in my opinion maybe twelve DKs just isn't enough time/experience to have an excuse to write world bending powah, but then again, if I had my way, Joker would only unlock after a good thirty or forty DKs.

This is kind of besides the point; you're right about a lot of the races having a more negative image and the outpost suffering as a result. I am confident that CC404 and NP being constantly under attack is because Robot and Zombie are terrible races and nobody who cares at all about actual gameplay should touch them. Ace High kind of mystifies me as to why it's under attack so often, what with everyone and their uncle being a Joker anymore - it even has Cake or Death! - and maybe Squat Hole has somthing to do with it being on a swamp square with no easy train access. It's pretty obvious why Pleasantville would stay safe, and I don't think enough people use the drinks in NP to really give it the same appeal, even if they're awesome.

Quote by: spandex

Would it work to have the critical things distributed around the outposts, and only available in each? Sheila's, food, eboys, building supplies, etc?



No offense but that doesn't sound like a good idea at all.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 03 2011 @ 05:54 PM
By: Chamomile

Content:

Speaking as someone who doesn't yet have any DKs and really wants to be a Joker, I wholeheartedly agree that they should be bumped upwards in terms of DK requirement. Jokers are completely contaminated by Improbability, and that's not something that should happen within about six in-game months.

More on-topic, the food should be balanced. Certain locations should not be obviously better than others in terms of how much you're allowed to play per day (with the possible exception of NewHome, since it's the newb city), because even if the NP drinks come out to more req per day or even more XP per day, that doesn't really compare to more playtime per day.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 03 2011 @ 07:21 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

If you're inspired by cats, then there's lots of cliches that you can pick on. What about the nose-in-the-air cat that disdainfully allows their staff* to feed them, as a display of divine grace and favour? Does anybody remember 'Old fat smelly tom-cat Bernard'? But people mostly want the cutesy cutesy kitten.


*Dogs have owners, cats have staff.



I remember Tom-cat Bernard. One of his more disgustingly hilarious incarnations.

As far as Dave goes...I take more a cartoon inspiration (Have I Mentioned Lately that Dave is a Cartoon?) and the more energetic/curious tendency of cats to run around and do incredibly silly things like miss a jump, land in a bit of a heap, then shake themselves off and look around with a "I meant to do that" kind of look about them. Or inspect and antagonize things for the fun of it.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 06 2011 @ 01:47 PM
By: Grey

Content:

Quote by: wvf

I support the two-dk-for-kittymorph, since... hell, I think it's a great stay for Improbable Island. Moving it up would feel... wrong, I think. Improbable Island is, overall, a rather dark game when I think about it. Kittania is the light spot of relief in it, and I think it's nice to show people that early on. Not everyone wants to play a mutated horror. Some people are just too sunny. Big Grin


I have to agree, I tend to find I don't have the correct mentality to play races such as the Joker, I try to, but I can never get my head into it, I also have to add the point of the look of the outposts, Pleasantville, New Pitts and Squat Hole all in my mind are greatly unappealing like their races, PV is described as having no reflective surfaces and boarded up windows, SH is just a S**T (he apologises for the swearing but this is the most accurate description) hole due to the midgets's treatment of it, and the NP give the impression that everything is decaying and rotting, this is why I do not spend much time there


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 07 2011 @ 02:31 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Grey

Quote by: wvf

I support the two-dk-for-kittymorph, since... hell, I think it's a great stay for Improbable Island. Moving it up would feel... wrong, I think. Improbable Island is, overall, a rather dark game when I think about it. Kittania is the light spot of relief in it, and I think it's nice to show people that early on. Not everyone wants to play a mutated horror. Some people are just too sunny. Big Grin


I have to agree, I tend to find I don't have the correct mentality to play races such as the Joker, I try to, but I can never get my head into it, I also have to add the point of the look of the outposts, Pleasantville, New Pitts and Squat Hole all in my mind are greatly unappealing like their races, PV is described as having no reflective surfaces and boarded up windows, SH is just a S**T (he apologises for the swearing but this is the most accurate description) hole due to the midgets's treatment of it, and the NP give the impression that everything is decaying and rotting, this is why I do not spend much time there



Some of the monsters (particularly ones I've written <.< ) make gratuitous use of the words "shit" and "fuck", so don't worry about profanity on these forums; we're all (well, kinda...) mature adults here.

Before this topic, I actually never considered the idea that Kittymorphs and Kittania are appealing because they're not shit-covered. You're right that Zombies are grisly, Midgets are gross, and Mutants are grotesque, Jokers are intimidating, and Humans and Robots are neutral. I mean, I've said before that the entire attraction I have to Zombies is specifically that ghoulish gruesomeness, but I get that people like playing something 'nice' more than that.

I don't exactly know how set-in-stone race options will always be in Improbable Island, so I don't exactly know whether it's really open for propositions of new races to further spread out the 'pretty race' fans. Maybe we should get some magic-addicted elves as a race... Wink


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 07 2011 @ 02:40 AM
By: Grey

Content:

Quote by: Maniak
Maybe we should get some magic-addicted elves as a race...

Oh god no!
*runs for the hills at the mention of magic elves and cowers*
Thy'll all want to frolic and force us to listen to Cher's greatest hits
*Yeah he's lost it*


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 07 2011 @ 03:05 AM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Quote by: Grey

Quote by: Maniak
Maybe we should get some magic-addicted elves as a race...

Oh god no!
*runs for the hills at the mention of magic elves and cowers*
Thy'll all want to frolic and force us to listen to Cher's greatest hits
*Yeah he's lost it*



How in the hell did you manage to credit that quote to Maniak?

Anyway, as to the elves, maybe we'll et the Dancers CMJ's mentioned someday.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 07 2011 @ 03:08 AM
By: Grey

Content:

Quote by: dizzyizzy

Quote by: Grey

Quote by: Maniak
Maybe we should get some magic-addicted elves as a race...

Oh god no!
*runs for the hills at the mention of magic elves and cowers*
Thy'll all want to frolic and force us to listen to Cher's greatest hits
*Yeah he's lost it*



How in the hell did you manage to credit that quote to Maniak?

Anyway, as to the elves, maybe we'll et the Dancers CMJ's mentioned someday.



*blinks* I have no idea. I blame it on it being four thirty am here, as for the dancers... Well they'll be fun to see, I just have a fear of actual elves, too much D&D.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 07 2011 @ 05:30 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

On these forums, I think the number one person I'd be confused for would be Maniak, so it makes sense. Number two comparison would be a Robert Downey Jr / Hugh Laurie hybrid. Mmmmmm, god I love mirrors.



(Warning: this post is completely full of bullshit.)


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 08 2011 @ 05:43 AM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Maybe we should get some magic-addicted elves as a race... Wink



Just keep them away from ancient beings of power... You don't want them doing something stupid like trying to summon a great evil onto the Island...

OT: I think the idea that Midgets, Mutants, and Zombies are all...well...the icky races are up to a bit of interpretation, really. It's up to the player to determine exactly how mutated or zombified they are, and I've seen a few people play rather cleaned-up midgets.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 08 2011 @ 06:25 AM
By: Makiwa

Content:

I don't think there's ever going to be a way to even out the population across outposts. This isn't natural anyway. Folks will always hang out where they want to irrespective of race, stam boosting food/drinks etc. It's just the way it is and I don't see it as a problem.

I do think some balancing of breaches would be appropriate. Maybe the usual four threatened outposts should have stronger walls than the more popular outposts. Maybe relate that to the number of posts in story/banter, encouraging more RP in the oft breached towns. Dunno, if that's doable or even makes sense.

If you want to see Kitts raised and the 100m walls devastated have a once in a while motherfather of a Titan than cannot be destroyed until after it's wiped out an outpost. Eek!


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 08 2011 @ 04:39 PM
By: Feynt

Content:

Hey, first post.

So I was thinking about this quite a bit the past few days, and I think the biggest drawback of the food system is that food is treated the same for everything that eats. But zombies aren't "living" so maybe they don't metabolize food anymore. Maybe all they want is brains, and so fat has no effect on them. Meanwhile kittymorphs may not be able to digest plants well (felines, being carnivores, don't digest vegetable material well. Part of the reason cats eat grass, to pass other non-digestible material like hair out of their systems). But the point is foods shouldn't affect all races equally.

The second thing, why are monsters drawn to out of the way, mostly unpopulated cities? They're likely hungry, so why aren't they going where all the food is, where the largest groupings of people are? It makes sense for Kitt and NH to take the brunt of the outpost raids while the others have less activity.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 08 2011 @ 05:52 PM
By: Rob+Anybody

Content:

Quote by: tehdave [..] I've seen a few people play rather cleaned-up midgets.

Ach, 'ow kind of ye fer noticin' me effort! and gobs hard in a corner

Feynt has a point here.. when I was playing as a zombie, I wondered why eating brains did not give any beneficial effects, although zombies are known not to be able to go without brains for a long time (it makes them really cranky)
Same goes for 'pain'; according to the description, zombies do not feel any pain, but if you get a tattoo as a zombie it still takes a few days of 'pain' to heal.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 08 2011 @ 06:20 PM
By: Feynt

Content:

Some zombies are known to crave the flesh of the living (or recently deceased) and not specifically brains, but that still brings up the point of why would something they crave, and in some cases need to survive, make them fat? If anything I'd say the state of being hungry (for a zombie) should occur more often and inflict a "craves braaaain" state (maybe a minor reduction in health for being hungry, but increased attack?) while being well fed confers bonuses (more defense perhaps and less stamina use per action).

It seems like the most used races all have some factor to them that makes them different enough from the norm (humans). Besides being able to eat meat without cooking it, what bonus does a zombie really get? I mean, these are supposed to be the tireless hordes of undeath, ceaselessly craving the flesh of the living and not stopping unless (depending on the laws of that particular universe) they're completely destroyed or their brain is damaged. These zombies don't make me think of those zombies I knew growing up.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 08 2011 @ 07:24 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Quote by: Feynt

why would something they crave, and in some cases need to survive, make them fat?





Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 08 2011 @ 08:28 PM
By: Feynt

Content:

Quote by: dizzyizzy

Quote by: Feynt

why would something they crave, and in some cases need to survive, make them fat?





Yes but they're dead. Why would consuming anything make them fat? Or from another angle, why would anything they eat not make them fat (ah, the mysteries of zombie digestion)? It just seems silly to me that zombies get penalized for eating the thing they want most to survive.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 08 2011 @ 09:45 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

I actually think it would be fine if Zombies started hungry and emaciated every day. I admit I don't remember the numbers in order to do the calculations, but I believe the opportunity to eat loads of food every day outweighs the gain from good health and body figure added to the reduced amount of food you can eat in the day.

By making Zombies hungry and thin at the start of every day, the fact that BRAAAAAAAINS is full of fattening BRAAAAINS is a nonissue to Zombies, because all they want is more food for stamina today. Fat factor becomes irrelevant to them, only Stamina per point of Satiation. Which I think is still fairly poor at BRAAAAAAAINS. As Omega and Maniak taught me, 3 Mutant Steaks pales in comparison to 10 Noodly Noodles and 1 Mutant Steak.

It also means that Zombies would love devouring Crap Meat a lot more.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 11 2011 @ 05:13 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

I think that's a pretty great idea, but it'd probably need to be balanced by being only able to eat from monsters and New Pittsburgh (braaaaaaaaiiiiins and etc, after all). Being able to down three mutant steaks (or whatever) every single day would make for very quick DKs indeed. It would certainly make Zombie a much more attractive choice than it is right now, at least to me. For me, I almost always go Midget or Joker and the other races are just for a goof every now and then.

Makes a lot of sense, too. I'd imagine it's hard for dead bodies to metabolize food as fat. It also adds an interesting roleplay element of being Always Desperately Hungry to the race as a whole, which is fun.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 11 2011 @ 06:25 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Makiwa

If you want to see Kitts raised and the 100m walls devastated have a once in a while motherfather of a Titan than cannot be destroyed until after it's wiped out an outpost. Eek!



I had an idea about a Grand Titan that would take a massive group effort to down, but I can't remember where it is in the forums right now. Maybe if the Grand Titan could be implemented, to have it focus on, say, Kittania or Pleasantville, instead of targeting a random outpost.


As far as the Zombies Are Always Hungry thing, that could actually be really good, and promote Zombies to eat whatever they want with no ill effects, so they could focus on just the highest Bite/Stam food instead of worrying about it being lean or fattening. I'd say there shouldn't be a penalty for them being malnourished, as that'd be their default state. (on Newday: You feel extremely malnourished. You're getting used to it though, and don't lose stamina for it.)


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 11 2011 @ 06:49 PM
By: Feynt

Content:

Eating "whatever they want" makes a lot of sense, I don't think I've seen zombies portrayed as picky eaters (though obviously eating a malfunctioning rice maker wouldn't be great on the stamina part).

As for titans, I've noticed a lot more titans around this weekend than the past few weeks combined. There were like, 3 heading for the hole and two heading for Kitt on Sunday. At least that I encountered. There were also at least 4 heading for CC404 over the course of the weekend. Maybe CMJ Is stepping up the titans a bit to start breaching those cities?


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 11 2011 @ 07:52 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Feynt

Eating "whatever they want" makes a lot of sense, I don't think I've seen zombies portrayed as picky eaters (though obviously eating a malfunctioning rice maker wouldn't be great on the stamina part).

As for titans, I've noticed a lot more titans around this weekend than the past few weeks combined. There were like, 3 heading for the hole and two heading for Kitt on Sunday. At least that I encountered. There were also at least 4 heading for CC404 over the course of the weekend. Maybe CMJ Is stepping up the titans a bit to start breaching those cities?



The titans actually spawn based on an algorithm, IIRC. It's more based on how quickly the last titans got killed. Though obviously CMJ could manually spawn some. The worst I've ever seen is where you couldn't go 2 squares without tripping over 5 titans with over 10 million HP each...the Watcher Herself had to come in to clean up...


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 11 2011 @ 09:40 PM
By: Feynt

Content:

Quote by: tehdave

The worst I've ever seen is where you couldn't go 2 squares without tripping over 5 titans with over 10 million HP each...the Watcher Herself had to come in to clean up...


>.>
<.<

lawl?

On the topic of things zombies can eat, that'd be one hell of a feast for one. I can only imagine the stamina gain possible, since you can eat whatever you want it seems when you aren't stuffed.

Borrowing ideas from another browser game involving zombies, they gain the ability to bite and claw things more effectively, as well as effectively poisoning their target when they chomp them good (rotting flesh tends to have this issue with diseases and stuff). Maybe as a zombie move they can also feast on their monster prey, gaining a little stamina in combat (if they aren't full) and doing a short damage over time effect for their regular attack damage (so like 12 damage split over 3 rounds, 4 damage each)?


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 11 2011 @ 11:47 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Matthew

I think that's a pretty great idea, but it'd probably need to be balanced by being only able to eat from monsters and New Pittsburgh (braaaaaaaaiiiiins and etc, after all). Being able to down three mutant steaks (or whatever) every single day would make for very quick DKs indeed. It would certainly make Zombie a much more attractive choice than it is right now, at least to me. For me, I almost always go Midget or Joker and the other races are just for a goof every now and then.

Makes a lot of sense, too. I'd imagine it's hard for dead bodies to metabolize food as fat. It also adds an interesting roleplay element of being Always Desperately Hungry to the race as a whole, which is fun.



I actually think that it would be balanced enough without any modifications. Food does have an extra balancing factor that we don't mention most of the time when we complain about various things: req cost. Eating 3 steaks each day costs 2250 per day. Eating the 10(?) Noodly Noodles + Steak combo is something just under 4000 req per day. To fill up on the last item at BRAAAAAAINS is 1500 req per day (and it is nothing compared to the other two amounts of stamina). At the lower levels, it is nigh unsustainable to eat your fill every day with restaurant food. At the higher levels, it's still quite the costliest situation any race could possibly be in. Therefore, people will indeed have weigh that choice against eating carcasses, which give you jack squat for stamina in comparison (you can't even get over 250% stamina before you fill up on Carcass Food no matter how many Beginning Of Day bonuses you get from equipment, extended play, and WCG. I'm pretty sure about that.) Yes, there will definitely be people (probably including me) that will find a way to sustain this high standard of dining because req, like cigs, is actually quite easy to acquire if you take advantage of certain game features, but I think on an overall level it isn't an issue far out-of-hand compared to other balance issues.

People talk about how they can easily get 1-day DKs using Midgets and people one-shot Titans with good Joker days. Is it really out of the question for Zombies to be a stamina-rich playstyle? I'd even turn the 10% bonus to attack into 10% penalty for that, so that Zombie as a fighter becomes a "kill with a thousand cuts", using some of that extra stamina in order to take down the same amount of opponents. It would also make the race a lot more attractive for builders.

Quote by: tehdave

I had an idea about a Grand Titan that would take a massive group effort to down, but I can't remember where it is in the forums right now. Maybe if the Grand Titan could be implemented, to have it focus on, say, Kittania or Pleasantville, instead of targeting a random outpost.


As far as the Zombies Are Always Hungry thing, that could actually be really good, and promote Zombies to eat whatever they want with no ill effects, so they could focus on just the highest Bite/Stam food instead of worrying about it being lean or fattening. I'd say there shouldn't be a penalty for them being malnourished, as that'd be their default state. (on Newday: You feel extremely malnourished. You're getting used to it though, and don't lose stamina for it.)



Well, I don't see why the penalty should go away. As Matt said, the stamina bonus from restaurant food is really high, but I was saying that it's just the right amount of high. The reason why I'm strattling between you two is because my suggestion is a little more elegant in comparison. You only have to modify the race so that on each New Day event, you don't check for the character's fullness, fatness, and nutrition variables, and simply set them all to zero. (I haven't checked the github, but I imagine it should be almost this easy?)

As for the Grand Titan, I'm not sold on that. Titans are currently produced organically, given health values in response to the speed that the players to defeat them. The way this game's stats are set up (which is awful, awful, awful), players who fight Titans often defeat them single-handedly. This was probably not intended when implemented, considering that multiple people can fight a Titan and, you know, they have millions of hit points. Creating a Grand Titan solely to take down Kittania or Pleasantville is a poor use of development time, since its task is to equalize their wall strengths to that of the others--if it succeeds, well, why couldn't we have just manually reset it? If it fails, then no problem has been solved other than Jakell or Maniak or you or Omega or one of the other regular Titan killers making a notch on your Titanbane Belt where it had felt a little plain before.


Quote by: Feynt

Borrowing ideas from another browser game involving zombies, they gain the ability to bite and claw things more effectively, as well as effectively poisoning their target when they chomp them good (rotting flesh tends to have this issue with diseases and stuff). Maybe as a zombie move they can also feast on their monster prey, gaining a little stamina in combat (if they aren't full) and doing a short damage over time effect for their regular attack damage (so like 12 damage split over 3 rounds, 4 damage each)?



If this game had flavor like that with its races, sure. But the closest any race gets to having their own ability is Midget, which is simply "Midget Rage", a standalone Adrenaline Vial from the Chemical Pack, simply raising the damage output of the character for a few turns. Creating this ability for the purpose of populating New Pittsburgh so that it falls less from Onslaught is a very roundabout solution that probably creates more issues than it fixes.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 12 2011 @ 12:39 AM
By: Feynt

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred
If this game had flavor like that with its races, sure. But the closest any race gets to having their own ability is Midget, which is simply "Midget Rage", a standalone Adrenaline Vial from the Chemical Pack, simply raising the damage output of the character for a few turns. Creating this ability for the purpose of populating New Pittsburgh so that it falls less from Onslaught is a very roundabout solution that probably creates more issues than it fixes.[/p]

Robots have overclocking, don't they? And then Jokers have their random greatness/suckiness per day. Mutants also gain an extra attack abilities (though I haven't actually played one, nor even unlocked them). So while a zombie "eat their face" attack might be a bit much it doesn't seem like it would be playing favourites.

I concede though that the improvement of zombies as a whole (with the exception of being able to eat anything without remorse as recently detailed) isn't as likely to solve the issue of Kittania vs. New Pittsburgh as popular hangout locations.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 12 2011 @ 01:19 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Feynt



Robots have overclocking, don't they? And then Jokers have their random greatness/suckiness per day. Mutants also gain an extra attack abilities (though I haven't actually played one, nor even unlocked them). So while a zombie "eat their face" attack might be a bit much it doesn't seem like it would be playing favourites.

I concede though that the improvement of zombies as a whole (with the exception of being able to eat anything without remorse as recently detailed) isn't as likely to solve the issue of Kittania vs. New Pittsburgh as popular hangout locations.



Overclocking is not a combat ability--when not in a fight, you can enter a page that lets you raise your attack, defense, or health regeneration to whatever you prefer. The catch is the highly-punishing Overheating bar, which fills up faster and faster the more you've Overclocked. But don't think you'll easily walk the fine line, as even the slightest bit of extra heat will make you randomly lose three quarters of your max health whenever the Random Number God wants to have its way with you.

Joker greatness/suckiness is not a combat ability. Each day, the Joker's attack and defense values have bonuses/penalties ranging from +90% to -90%, as do its stamina costs. Also, some days it will have health regeneration, and on other days it will have health degeneration.

Mutants do not gain combat abilities. I imagine you're talking about Insults, which all races can perform if they learn the skills from Cuthbert at Pleasantville. Mutants do get a large stamina cost discount for using Insults, but they are not unique to the race.

Combat abilities are generally in the form of whatever your Implant lets you do--use your head-mounted Laser, activate your Tesla Coil, fight superhumanly, activate a temporary regen/attack buff/defense buff, etc. Midgets are the only race that have their own combat ability.


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 12 2011 @ 01:27 AM
By: Feynt

Content:

Well, overclocking is an ability specifically for combat, if not in combat. Just sayin'


Re: Why Kittania over New Pitts?

Posted on: October 13 2011 @ 08:02 AM
By: IsaacW

Content:

I personally chose Kittymorphs over Zombies based on what I'd heard about the racial buffs/debuffs.


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