Subject: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 01 2017 @ 01:22 PM
By: Tamar

Content:

A small problem that has been with us for awhile is that the lesser used outposts are constantly getting hammered by monsters. A few dedicated players usually clear them out. I would like to help out but the act of clearing an outpost of monsters is vastly time consuming.

My solution would be the introduction of a new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

First idea:
A monster bomb. Straight up clears an x number of monsters. Would be nice to have different tiers of bombs to kill different number of monsters depending on the severity of the situation.

This seems like it would be relatively easy to make but the effects aren't long lasting as monsters will pile up.

Second idea:
An anti monster turret. It will kill x number of monsters for x duration. Different tiers of turrets could last longer or kill monsters faster. Something like that.

Would be more difficult to implement but could keep an outpost clear for awhile.



Replies:

Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 02 2017 @ 12:37 AM
By: Tamar

Content:

Or you know, have the outpost turrets actually do something.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 02 2017 @ 02:49 AM
By: Kes

Content:

Quote by: Tamar

Or you know, have the outpost turrets actually do something.


Ideas that have tossed around banter:

--Turrets that are repairable/buildable using stamina, like outpost walls are (potentially this could a bit too similar to outpost walls, but more useful when the outpost is prone to Titan stomps, and would actually affect threat level. I sort of like the idea of having to make a judgement call when seeing an outpost in trouble: does this need higher walls first, or more working turrets?)
--Turrets that you can pour req into to keep them going, like those weird seaside binoculars

Idea that has tossed itself around my head without developing into anything actually helpful:

--Some way to use scrap from Down Below or the Scrapyard to fix them. It just seemed neat.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 10 2017 @ 12:29 AM
By: Widdershins

Content:

Something to Keep in mind: Outposts under attack drop more Money in their jungles. Up to "Critical" you can earn more and still safeguard your req in the bank. I'd hate if some power Players or auto-defense turrets lower threat Levels to "no extra req".

Building turrets sounds tempting though...


Stupid Microsoft Edgeplorer and ist goddamn auocorrect Messing with my capitalization *grmbl*


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 16 2017 @ 02:26 PM
By: Tamar

Content:

Quote by: Widdershins

Something to Keep in mind: Outposts under attack drop more Money in their jungles. Up to "Critical" you can earn more and still safeguard your req in the bank. I'd hate if some power Players or auto-defense turrets lower threat Levels to "no extra req".

Building turrets sounds tempting though...


Stupid Microsoft Edgeplorer and ist goddamn auocorrect Messing with my capitalization *grmbl*



The core problem is that it takes considerable effort to lower threat levels.

As it stands there are some outpost that are generally getting hammered all the time. If the extra req incentive worked and people actually fought we wouldn't be having a problem.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 20 2017 @ 09:59 PM
By: CaptainSvess

Content:

So, my two cents: Really have to agree that the threat levels get way too high way too quickly at the moment. I currently spend a few hours every day or other day to kill a few thousand monsters, keeping all the outposts at reasonably safe levels. There are only a few other people on the Island that are willing and capable of doing this sort of thing, especially so often. If none of us do it for even just a few days, we end up with multiple breached outposts, NewHome having the only open bank, and outposts so flooded with monsters from lack of help that it takes thousands of kills just to unbreach them. Cleaning up such things can take upwards of 5+ hours, requiring 6000+ kills.

Basically, at the moment, the safety of the outposts is almost entirely based on how much free time 3-4 people have.

Not exactly a stable, reliable source of security. I'm gonna show my support to the turret idea. Feed it req, it kills monsters. I might be slightly out of touch with the average player and their earnings, but my suggestion for the exchange rate would be about 1000 req in the turret = 1 less monster at the walls. This would let people contribute without having to actually spend the time to kill monsters, and would help the less-visited outposts hold their ground despite the lack of people patrolling it.

An idea of mine is some kind of system where, if an outpost's threat levels are at absolute zero, any monster kills done at that outpost will spill over into other outposts. NewHome, for instance, is very commonly at extremely low monster levels, so a few of the kills done there would translate over to kills at other outposts in need. Of course, the exchange rate couldn't be 1-1, or people would never leave a single outpost. Perhaps every 4 or 5 monsters killed at a completely peaceful outpost would translate to 1 kill at an endangered outpost.

An idea I've heard is to add more incentives for killing monsters, to inspire more people to go out and help. Perhaps some kind of small chance of getting a SP or two? With a hard cap per gameday, of course, to prevent people from farming it. Or a system where killing a set amount of monsters gets you a one-use changer for your rollover, or a few quills for special comments.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 21 2017 @ 03:05 AM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Halved the difficulty again, until I get around to either making this less shit or taking it out.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 24 2017 @ 12:40 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

If you do take out Breaches, I would adore a 'random hunting' option in the jungle- like, say, it makes you encounter a monster of any level up or down.

Maybe a skill you need to learn somewhere, like cooking and insults etc?


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 25 2017 @ 07:45 PM
By: Widdershins

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Halved the difficulty again, until I get around to either making this less shit or taking it out.


You're gonna take breaches and/or threat levels out? That'd spoil my fun! I already miss my monsters now that the whole island is peaceful.
But seems I'm like the only one on whom the req incentive works as intended, so the system needs change for the benefit of all other players.

I understand right now the monster metrics take into account how many players are logged in. Which doesn't work out when some people kill 6000+ monsters per day while others enjoy their roleplaying. What about using the HoF variable "Total Monster Kills" to better adjust monster numbers to jungle grinders? Drawback would be that threat levels would rise and drop sharply when a superkiller like Svess or Tamar logs on/off.
Or the monsters need to be distributed more unevenly, aggregating at the hotspot du jour, while other outposts remain at moderate threat levels.

I even wonder if it's a self-exacerbating process: When some people are capable of killing 6000+ monsters per day, the game metrics supply more and more monsters, the superkillers feel obliged to kill more and more monsters, until it becomes a chore and threat levels go haywire if a superkiller lacks time for their daily killing quota.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 26 2017 @ 12:20 AM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Minor detail: I love the writing for this. I still occasionally reread about the Squats thieving all the reinforcement timber to set up their own timber stalls, or getting catapulted into the fray outside. It would be a great shame if that went.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: June 29 2017 @ 05:45 AM
By: CaptainSvess

Content:

I definitely would be sad to see the whole system thrown out entirely as well, it's really a great mechanic. Works not only as a gameplay mechanic, but also helps present how the Island is in a state of constant turmoil, with outposts having to fight to keep themselves safe. It's easy to forget it's a war sometimes. It should just be modified to not rely so heavily on a few choice people, be a little more self-sufficient. I definitely wanna see outposts in trouble every once in a while, and I love reading how the different outposts respond to steadily rising threats. Just not every 12 hours.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: July 01 2017 @ 04:28 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

Another idea: make it opt-in, like it is for people under a certain level on their first DK? Like, have the outposts gain threat as normal, but don't close any businesses and let people still story and stuff, only include a "Jump into the Fray" option or something if there's monsters in the outposts.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: July 02 2017 @ 12:50 PM
By: CloudySky

Content:

I do like the idea of an opt-out. As it is, it's difficult to actually story about a breach. And I agree the threat mechanics are a large part of reminding us we're actually still at war here.

I'm not sure if I want to ask to keep the Council Offices open longer. On the one hand, I feel very sorry for the poor newbies staggering around with that awfully heavy Service Revolver weighing them down. On the other, there's the community aspect. But then again, I get the feeling that here too, it's the usual 4-5 people that get to work. So yes, can we keep the Council Offices open longer?
(Not the banks. The trade-off between higher req payout and the inability to bank it is an interesting game mechanic.)

It's difficult to imagine something that will help with the near-constant breaches other than lowering the difficulty. I do hope there's something done soon, because these fully-green boards in the Council Offices are freaking me out with their eye-of-the-storm feeling of Doom vibe...


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: July 03 2017 @ 12:39 PM
By: Widdershins

Content:

CMJ: Did you tweak the numbers again? Some monsters were sighted (Minor Activity) and there was great rejoicing!


Cloudy: It's totally easy to story a breach. Just use your imagination - no breach needed Wink
I feel it makes sense that people are forced into fight during breach. Storying anything but Breach would breach flavor of the game world. If the game mechanics worked as intended, there would be half a dozen of unbreached outposts for story for those that don't want to fight.

An opt-in/-out system would be easy to implement - but would it really solve the problem? Threat levels would continue to be exceedingly high.
Only people could ignore it. Maybe that'd make the 3-4 super killers feel less obliged to fight threat levels down?


Some random idea that came to my mind:
Some races (Squat, Robot?) are more popular for jungle grinding and others (Kittymorph, Human?) more for storying.
What about making threat levels act different for different races?
It terms of flavor it'd be really odd if Kittymorphs could continute to cuddle pile while Squats slash through a breached outpost, but maybe that'd help players to encounter an island that suits their preferences.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: July 09 2017 @ 01:42 PM
By: Widdershins

Content:

Apparently registering new accounts for the forum doesn't work. I'm forwarding a message from Contestant Zean:

Premise: Removing the breach system isn't a solution.

The breach system is a good feature which makes the island feel more alive, and responsive to player's activity, which is always good, games where the actions of the players have no influence on the world always feel dead.

There are two issues with the breach system:
1) It heavily relies on players activity (and active efforts toward it) to fight it off.
2) There is a lack of informations, which could otherwise help with the joint efforts, coordination and generally giving the players a better idea of what is really going on and what they are facing.
Also, better informations would allow the players to see the direct effects of their actions. While not having a clear idea if your own effort did amount to anything is frustrating.


Point one has three facets:
1.a) The stable server population.
The overall population may vary over time and years, the push of the monsters should change accordingly.
Having the growth of jungle monsters adapt to the game population is required to keep a sense of challenge, while at the same time not letting the difficulty get out of hand when the players population is into a slow time.
The threat level being too hard to be reduced, even with combined efforts, means the population is no longer able to take on the challenge, or that the challenge is out of their reach.

1.b) Distrubution of the population on the map and over different outposts.
Some outposts, like Kittania, are often healthy because they have a stable community living there. Other outposts without a big enough community can't keep up with the outpost defence on their own.
This isn't necessarily bad, because it shows the difference between a populated outpost and a scarcely populated one.

1.c) Seasonal population changes.
Over different seasons the population may temporarily change, lowering for some months only to come back the next month.
Aside point 1.a) having emergency measures to fend off seasonal slumber is an other option, like the previously suggested turrets, they could become available only during known slow periods of the year, becoming also an extra game event.


Point 2 is about informations, currently the players have to orientate themselves 3 kinds of informations:
2.a) Threat levels. They influence the outposts services, but give no idea of how far each level is from the upper and lower levels, so there is no sense of progress toward a goal.
2.b) Walls health. This information is clear and works as intended. It gives a reliable feedback to the players actions and efforts.
2.c) Number of monsters outside the walls. Only an estimate is possible to read, and only when the walls are down.
This is the informations which needs the most work on. Since it could be very useful in giving the players a sense of progress, and also a measure of which outposts needs the actual most help (expecially when there are multiple maxed out threat levels, where the sense of distance from the goal is lost)
Possible improvements to the number of monsters:
-Make it possible to have a reading also when the walls are up.
-Report the readings to the council offices (based on the latest reading of players in the outpost, to don't remove the feature of players scouting the actual status)


Hope to see the island keep growing and remaining the interesting and nice place it is.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: July 15 2017 @ 07:49 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Parenthetic off-topic explanatory note: New registrations for the Enquirer have indeed been shut off (temporarily, I hope!) because:

* For many years we've been plagued with spam signups, to the tune of 50 to 100 per day. After one annoying episode when we apparently reached some critical mass causing 5000 spammers to activate their forum-spam scripts all at once, I added deleting these spam ids manually to my daily routine.

* The recent transition to the new server messed up my ability to delete; the Geeklog forum software started throwing an error when I tried. That meant the spammers were now building up their number of spam ids again. I thought, "Uh-oh."

* So at my request, as a stopgap measure, CMJ has shut off new user signups.


The trouble is that, like LotGD, Geeklog is Pleistocene-era PHP code, but unlike the Island, it's not a code base CMJ has been dealing with every day for years. So the time-cost to find and fix whatever location-reference is going wrong is somewhat higher.

The other trouble, I suspect, is that when CMJ looks at the signup process for the Enquirer, he thinks, "Oh, I really should just make Enquirer signup an option when people create an account on the Island." Which would be elegant. But then that quickly devolves into the whole mess of account versus character, which leads to thoughts of Season Three, and S3 is still one year away until further notice...

So I understand the problem, and I don't know how this gets resolved. But if the small reference error that's blocking my ability to delete can somehow be found and fixed, I will be quite happy to go back to zapping those evil spammers every night for two minutes before I go to bed.

In the meantime, yes, Widdershins, and anyone else who already has an Enquirer ID, please do post on behalf of any new player who has something they want to contribute. That's a lovely courtesy, and thank you very much for doing it.

(End parenthetic off-topic note.)


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: July 19 2017 @ 12:13 PM
By: Lyssa

Content:

I'll totally post for people if they need it. Just distract me, same name as here.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: July 27 2017 @ 05:36 AM
By: Iriana

Content:

Sessine, are there better forum and wiki solutions out there, and is there any chance of II moving to something other than Geeklog in the future? I love the Enquirer for its discussion, but I hate how difficult it is to get reliable search results and how unwieldy the wikis are compared to "modern" wikis.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: July 29 2017 @ 12:56 AM
By: Widdershins

Content:

Back to threat levels:

1) The island's been peaceful for days, in theory CMJ could nudge it up a notch. In practice I suppose threat factors multiply like buffs do, so it's impossble to raise it just a teeny-weeny bit. Seems like we only have a choice between All Peacefull and Overrun. Or CMJ has to make manual adjustments every day.
What about programming automated adjustments? Have the game check Council Office data and lower whatever numbers CMJ's tweaks automatically once two Outposts reach Interesting Times. And push numbers back up when all outposts are at Minor Activity or below.

2) I noticed I spend a not insubstantial amount of my game time Down Below. What about counting FoeBots killed towards overall monster kill of that outpost? With Level 4 FoeBots counting halfway for lvl 3 and lvl 5 outposts.

3) The rotplot finale rolled dice for every post in story to count threat levels down. Maybe role players would be happy if they could kill two birds with one stone: Do what they enjoy most, and at the same time help the outpost in which they're storying.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: July 30 2017 @ 12:45 PM
By: csodalatos

Content:

Widder, point 2) is interesting, but what would you do for L22-L33, for instance -- credit them one-eleventh of each intermediate outpost? That doesn't seem very well balanced, somehow, especially considering the greater difficulty of those Foebots.


Re: Requesting new Hunter's Lodge item to kill monsters.

Posted on: August 02 2017 @ 10:52 PM
By: Widdershins

Content:

Half to both nearest exits, of course, there are no 11 intermediate outposts.

In the current system there is already a random factor assigned to each outpost's threat level. Adding more randomness in the form of exit allocation shouldn't be a problem. CMJ mentioned no-one fights in the jungle anymore, so I figured you should somehow make killing FoeBots count towards lowering threat levels.

Of course, you could ignore lvl 4 FoeBots etc. entirely and count only FoeBots on exit levels. Or, you could count lvl 22 FoeBots 10/11th towards Outpost 21 and 1/11th towards Outpost 34 etc. There'd be some in-game logic to that, but why make the programming all complicated? A halfway split between the nearest exits should do.


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