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Kolojang
 Friday, October 09 2015 @ 06:13 AM UTC (Read 7156 times)  
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So, it's that time of year again. I know there's been some talk of it before, but I can't find the old thread and instead of reviving it, I decided to start a new one.

Improbable Island Minecraft themed server? I know a lot of people would like to have it custom modded with Island stuff. Have the map be a replica of the Island.

Ideas? Complains? Limericks?

I, myself, cannot really code, but I'd be willing to at least fund to thing for a while (hosting costs) and manage the back end.


 
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Thige
 Friday, October 09 2015 @ 06:39 AM UTC  
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Well, I'm not too sure about coding, but I'd love to help out with the general building of it! Building Outposts, doing repairs, shaping up the Terrain to make it like the Island. Or other things you need help with that are within my abilities?

I'm willing to dedicate time towards it is what I'm getting at!


 
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Lea.wolfsfeld
 Friday, October 09 2015 @ 04:33 PM UTC  
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Island Map to Minecraft! Now then, from my understanding each map square is roughly 1km^2 making the total area shown on the map somewhere around 1000km^2. Each minecraft block is about 1m in size. If we were to go in scale that would mean each map square would be a 1000x1000 grid.... meaning there would be around 1,000,000,000 blocks just on the surface.


 
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Trex
 Friday, October 09 2015 @ 04:58 PM UTC  
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The question is, do we want to run a survival map while building the Island?

Server commands can change the world type from survival to creative and back again. And I'm sure that there must be some map making tools out there in the wild internet that would help with map making of such a scale.


 
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Count Sessine
 Saturday, October 10 2015 @ 04:12 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Lea.wolfsfeld

Island Map to Minecraft! Now then, from my understanding each map square is roughly 1km^2 making the total area shown on the map somewhere around 1000km^2. Each minecraft block is about 1m in size. If we were to go in scale that would mean each map square would be a 1000x1000 grid.... meaning there would be around 1,000,000,000 blocks just on the surface.

Not that I know anything about Minecraft, but that sounds rather like a huge problem.

Have you considered starting at just one outpost and building out from there? The obvious starting-point would be NewHome. Will that work --is a Minecraft world expandable as needed or do you have to define the total space available right from the beginning?


 
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Kolojang
 Saturday, October 10 2015 @ 05:24 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Have you considered starting at just one outpost and building out from there? The obvious starting-point would be NewHome. Will that work --is a Minecraft world expandable as needed or do you have to define the total space available right from the beginning?



That issue was addressed in the extensive conversation we had in Banter. Honestly, I'm thinking of going ahead and upping a whitelisted server (for those non-MC people here, it means you need prior permission to access the server. Keeps most of the rabbles out) and doing just that. Building an outpost, calling it NewHome, and going from there.

And no, you don't need to allocate blocks when you start. The theoretical surface a Minecraft map can have before you start having trouble is about 8 times the surface of earth. So yeah, we could actually fill the map with replicas upon replicas of the Island on there.

The main concern with an Island replica though was all the people thinking "oh, but mining will screw it up" and "people will build things where things are not supposed to be". There was talk of doing an Island replica as a side project, which I think would be awesome, but not sure if I would get involved in that.

So, back to an Island server. If we're not going to have an Island replica on it, what's going to make it Islandy then? Well, for one, nothing is stopping people from building replicas of whatever building or outpost you want. Also, as the project gains traction, some talented people could create some mods that add island type items to the server, like weapons and armor, or mobs. And we could also work on a texture pack (that one I'd really like to see happen!)

Edit: The real thing that would make it a Minecraft Island Map though is what also makes Improbable Island what it is: the people.


 
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Iriana
 Saturday, October 10 2015 @ 11:26 PM UTC  
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The main concern with an Island replica though was all the people thinking "oh, but mining will screw it up" and "people will build things where things are not supposed to be". There was talk of doing an Island replica as a side project, which I think would be awesome, but not sure if I would get involved in that.

Proper rules and thoughtful members will encourage building of interesting things (much like Places--none of those are supposed to be there, in the strict sense, but they are and it makes the Island better), such as nice mines, while discouraging not respecting other people's/buildings'/outposts' space, such as building shit mines, or 1x1 dirt pillars everywhere.

A friendly, respectful group of people playing a game together on an Island-inspired map seems more fun to me than a museum-exhibit-like, to-scale, untouchable replica of the Island, especially when it's a text game. I'd expect there to be at least some disagreement amongst a team of builders if they decided to replicate it, seeing as we have no singular, concrete idea of what a lot of the canon Island even looks like.


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Sunday, October 11 2015 @ 01:33 AM UTC  
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Thoughts:
I am in favor of this project, because, hey, why not?
This is the old thread, just for reference: http://enquirer.improbableisland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=15&showtopic=29190
To address one of Tahvohck's concerns last thread, we may need to bring back trains for Improbable Island: the Minecraft
I feel obligated by the spirit of free software to mention Minetest here, though I have no strong opinions about using it.
Creating two maps would be a waste; there are only 8 canon map locations that could conceivably be messed up by interlopers: Those could easily be protected by some mod which makes certain areas indestructible. I imagine this would be a survival map, because I consider that the most fun.
Having a 3D model of the island could open up lots of possibilities. Shame it would be so blocky.


 
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Kolojang
 Sunday, October 11 2015 @ 05:02 AM UTC  
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Alright, I've decided. Starting next week I'm going to shop around for hosting, then set up a vanilla server. It won't have an exact meter for meter island replica on it. It won't have NPCs, or special mobs, or even special weapons (for now anyway). What it'll have is pleasant people wanting to build beautiful things, respecting one another.

I'll keep you guys informed of the development!

Also, for everyone's info, I'm thinking of making it a bukkit server, so we can have fancy chat plugins and some sort of currency based economy. I'm not sure what version of minecraft it'll have to be under though, so maybe we'll have to set up the map with one of the earlier build. For anyone confused as to what this all means, I'll explain more in details once we cross that bridge.


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Sunday, October 11 2015 @ 09:40 AM UTC  
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That sounds excellent! However-- with no intention of dissuading or criticizing you-- I find myself with more things to say about the possible benefits of Minetest*:

  • It could be the native Linux program that can run on a crappy laptop (it does mine, once you turn off all the graphical niceties) that CMJ mentioned he wanted back in 2010.
  • Given that Minetest is a free and open source game, and dependant on a large group of people to provide it game content, we might have a nicer experience trying to write mods. This may be counterbalanced by how much more popular Minecraft is.
  • Improbable Island: the Minecraft would always be linked, in some way, to the company that owns Minecraft. Improbable Island: the Minetest, being free software, would be more fully ours, if you catch my drift.
  • Minetest is free as in beer, so all our Islanders (who, it has been conjectured, may be poorer than the average gaming community) can play it for free. Minecraft, by comparison, is listed at $27 on its website.

The only two disadvantages I can see are unfamiliarity and the possibility that an update will break everything, the latter of which is probably equally shared by Minecraft.

All in all, I recommend you give Minetest a look.

*or some other open source version of Minecraft


 
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Kolojang
 Sunday, October 11 2015 @ 04:11 PM UTC  
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I will be looking at this MineTest you speak of. But, there is two things I foresee that might be a problem (for me anyway)...

I'm way more familiar with Minecraft and have actually already run a Bukkit and a Feed the Beast server.

The hosting site I was thinking of specializes in Minecraft. They have integrated Minecraft support, mod support, etc. I'm not sure how I would go about with a Minetest server.


 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, October 11 2015 @ 04:49 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Full+Metal+Lion

Thoughts:
To address one of Tahvohck's concerns last thread, we may need to bring back trains for Improbable Island: the Minecraft.

As the person who programmed the original Trains, I have a thought or two about that.

Don't limit it the way Trains were limited. In II the text game, there were all sorts of other game balance considerations that meant using the train had to be made a bit difficult -- and at that, I signally failed to make it difficult enough. I don't see that any of those reasons would apply in a Minecraft / Minetest version. Just give everyone the equivalent of a permanent First Class Pass that will transport them to... probably to the centre of their desired klick destination, which would still be a pretty big area...?

Or, more flexibly, create the equivalent of Teleport Beacons (but you can call them Train Station Platforms if you like) that people can place anywhere that seems sensible. You'd need a labelling convention to let people select destinations. The most reasonable one I can think of would be a double set of coordinates - first you'd pick the Island coordinates you wanted, and then... if there was more than one Designated Platform in that square, you'd pick which one you wanted. I should think you'd want to supply every map square with at least one default Designated Platform.

I'm looking at this entirely from the point of view of requirements design. When someone comes to program it, it may turn out the programming interface available will dictate that it has to be done quite differently.

(And I hereby grant everyone full and free permission to use any of the flavour text I wrote for Trains, or images or textures or concepts suggested by the words, in any way that seems good to you. Just in case anyone ever worries about that, which I hope you wouldn't!)


 
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Kolojang
 Sunday, October 11 2015 @ 05:56 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

As the person who programmed the original Trains, I have a thought or two about that.



Thanks for the support, Sessine! But trains don't work like that in Minecraft. If we have a train network, it will be an actual network of rails connecting each outposts. They have those built in the core game. Anyone with a railway cart will be able to ride the rails!

And I'm also thinking of doing a teleport system anyway, which can also be made using the core game blocks.

Also it's pretty gracious of you to allow us to use the in-game text for the game!


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Monday, October 12 2015 @ 02:34 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Kolojang

But, there is two things I foresee that might be a problem (for me anyway)...


Well, the perfect is the enemy of the good and I don't have the patience to put my money where my mouth is. Continue with the original plan, and we can export everything to Minetest later if it seems worth the bother.

Including OSTs seems like a pretty cool idea, too.


 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, October 12 2015 @ 03:31 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Kolojang

Quote by: Count+Sessine

As the person who programmed the original Trains...

... trains don't work like that in Minecraft. If we have a train network, it will be an actual network of rails connecting each outposts. They have those built in the core game. Anyone with a railway cart will be able to ride the rails.

Oh, well then, if they're physical tracks, this might be useful:


Mind you, this still assumes improbable trains. For an actual network of rails it might not be optimal routing.

I do recommend that you run the tracks for some distance along the rim of the northern cliffs, though -- just for the great views out over the ocean -- and then along the ridge that leads to AceHigh. And I'm pretty sure there are also tracks running at least part of the way along the river.


 
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Lester Roquefort
 Monday, October 12 2015 @ 06:40 AM UTC  
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Here's my worries.

1. We'll get it all set up and comfortable and CMJ will somehow say "Nope." and put us all in an awkward position and we'd have to take all our hard work down.

2. It'll somehow be more popular than I.I. itself and people will have to use minecraft to RP.

Of course, these are probably far fetched worries...

I believe you've already answered these in banter and i didn't see them in this thread, as far as i could see, so i thought i'd raise these questions here.


 
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Kautin
 Monday, October 12 2015 @ 07:48 AM UTC  
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So I have a lot to comment on, and I'm going to touch on those topics before I go into the forge idea some have heard me talk about. After looking things over, I've tried to keep it short and sweet....

Mobs
You don't need anything really special to change some mobs. Though it will extremely limit your II mob choices, you can change the skins and give equipment to some mobs. It's something that is done on the MC server that I staff. We have a Herobrine that's no more than a zombie with full armor and a custom head. We also have leprechauns that are baby zombies with an new skin. With this we can take mobs already in MC and add II mobs using them.

OSTs
I've heard some talk about the use of OSTs and using command blocks to make them. Ender pears are already MC's teleportation device. If you wanted to expound upon that you could put in a script that lets you type something like '/warp NewHome' while having an enderpearl in your hand. Thus, you are teleported to NewHome and the ender pearl is consumed.

The Map
Looking at banter and some other comments it looks like a lot of people are looking at making the MC server map to scale- which is really, really big. So why bother? If we're using MC, then it's alright if things aren't to scale. As long as we make sure the outposts fit what they need to and aren't too big on the map, what really matters is the shape, not the exact size.

Keeping The Server II Populated
If we're wanting to make sure that the II MC server is filled with Islanders, then we might want a way to do that. It's possible, as I've seen similar done before, to set up a system where a use first verifies their MC account (maybe set up a login for the MC server) on II with a character, and then uses that for their character to join. If that's the way it is done, a temporary 'log-in' hub could hold people who have tried to join but aren't officially connected. Of course, you could just use whitelist if you know a simpler way.

Overcrowding
Obviously the island is, well, an island. If it's not going to be super big then it's going to run out of room some day. I was one of the people concerned about this. As someone suggested in banter, new seasons would be great for this. A reset every so often, a solid schedule would be best, would keep the island fresh and on its feet.

Protecting the Towns
Town protection is one of the most important parts for any server that has a server spawn area. Unless you want to have a war zone as a server entry, they'll have protection. This should be really easy to find and implement. You can use smaller protection techniques to allow players to keep their builds safe.

Requisition
One thing I've seen done is that in some MC servers players earn coins for killing mobs. This could be important, as the same thing happens in II. It definitely has my recommendation to be put to use.


The Forge Idea

It seems that things are going a totally different direction, but I'm going to share the idea anyway. You never know when one idea could spawn another! In this idea I'll be discussing a route where the server was geared more toward being played like II and less like MC. There are obvious things that can be done with Forge, such as the mobs and items like the OST, but I'm going to cover some other possibilities. Not all of these are 100% unique to forge (See PvP for an example).

The Map
Unlike what's been discussed, the map for this can't really be touched. The point of it for this is exploration. Mind you, you can still cut down trees and mine some rock (see Material Collection), but overall the goal is to complete quests and fight monsters (maybe even each other, see PVP).

PvP
Since PvP has typically been an opt-in sort of story, it would be interesting to see that here. A player would be able to send a combat request to another player via chat commands, and that player would be able to accept or decline it by also using chat commands. If that's too low risk for a player, they can turn on PvP before leaving an outpost (to prevent people from cheating by turning on and off PvP) and can freely engage anyone else outside of an outpost.

Material Collection
In II there are two main natural materials- wood and stone. This gives a use to the traditional MC ax and pickax tools. Any tree can be cut for wood except for the trunk (which will allow for, with modding, the tree to grow back as it was) and there are special stone deposits in the mountains that can be mined and slowly regenerate. For use of ores see Equipment and The Down Below.

Homes
This idea someone deviates from Island canon. Rather than anyone building a place in any location there are portals that players can access (once they buy a plot) that will take them to, well, a large box. While in this box they have creative and can build what they like. If they wish to expand the home, like what would be done with doors and such, the player can use the wood and stone they have collected to do so.

Equipment
This one was the trickiest for me. In the end I went with the idea that, just like in normal II, this is where you get your good armor and weapons. Higher level equipment is only available here, which means you need req to get the goodies. This also means that ores, unlike normal MC, don't have as much of a use. To make up for this, it would be interesting if they could be used to level up equipment, thus adding another little bit of fun to the game.

The Down Below
The DB is pretty interesting, and it's difficult to connect it to different outposts on an MC server without portals. So, in each outpost the DB entrance would have a small tunnel that leads to a portal. This portal spits the player into the actual maze that is the Down Below where they fight monsters for loot and can mine ores depending on their DB level. These MC ores, ones a player leaves the DB, can be kept to upgrade equipment, sold for Req, or exchanged for favor.

The Failboat
This could be accomplished with a different hub for characters that die. Monsters that they kill here don't give req, but instead favor. Favor itself is easy to track, as it's just another currency. When in the failboat, should a player have enough favor, they can do a teleport command that'll take them back to one of the outposts in exchange for 100 favor.

----------------------------------

Well, it's almost 3am now and I'm just hoping what I've written makes sense. Good luck to you all!


 
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Kolojang
 Wednesday, October 14 2015 @ 05:46 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Lester+Roquefort

Here's my worries.

1. We'll get it all set up and comfortable and CMJ will somehow say "Nope." and put us all in an awkward position and we'd have to take all our hard work down.

2. It'll somehow be more popular than I.I. itself and people will have to use minecraft to RP.



So I wanted to wait a bit to see if someone would address the issues before going over them myself. I'd like to know what others are thinking about that. Since it's been two days and no one piped in, I figured I might as well give my two cents on this.

1. This is currently being worked over. I haven't got a definitive answer from the Big Boss yet, and the second I do, you guys will be the first to know.

2. My opinion is that this has very little chance of happening. First because not every II players has minecraft or will want to play on the server. Second, because I don't know if the server will be RP or not (that's something I was thinking of discussing with everyone once the projects goes forward). In fact, I think it'll actually help with players retention. My reasoning is this: for me, II is much more than just a RP place, it's a community. Now, some people might get bored with the game and drift away. Some people might even start playing Minecraft, and if it's a good server, it, too, will be about more than just the game. Now, I'd rather those people start playing on our server, since it'll keep them in the community. That MC server is sure to be rife with talk of the Island, and by hearing of all the cool stuff going on the text side, people are more likely to come back. Anyway, that's my opinion.


 
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Kolojang
 Wednesday, October 14 2015 @ 06:44 AM UTC  
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Oh, and I also want to add this. Even if we go ahead, we're having bunch of fun, and then for some reason the MC servers becomes a problem regarding intellectual properties of anything, I'm going to put an end to it. As for any MC server, the players have to realize that their "work" may be lost at a moment's notice, either due to updates, bugs, crash, acts of God, anything.


 
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Sillie
 Thursday, October 15 2015 @ 03:34 PM UTC  
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How well does Minecraft work on a smartphone?


 
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