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 Some feedback on invasions (LONG post!)
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talkydoor
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 04:08 PM UTC  
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I agree with Tyr, and callia, and Hairy Mary, and Skidge, and... er, probably most of you. Too many to quote!

But I am enjoying the idea of Onslaught, and I hope it gets balanced out soon so more RP can get focussed on... It's really nice to see good RP happening when the attack's at a low, but sad it can't really happen when the threat level's spiked.

Um... but yeah! Could be great fun once it's tweaked a bit. Thanks, CMJ etc.


 
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Ada
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 04:17 PM UTC  
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I am basically just here to add another voice, because I have to say that I agree or nearly agree with everything that has been said.

I do have to say that I really, really like the atmosphere that the invasions bring. As a new player, you work your way through all that flavour text, and it is the end of the world! There are bombs and monsters and you have been dumped somewhere that is entirely full of crazy. Then you show up in NewHome, and get yelled at by Corporal Punishment for a while, and you are thinking 'oh boy this is a war'. Then you go through the museum, and realize that there is even more crazy, and that computers have poofed, and that there are mutants and jokers and catpeople.
But then you go back out to NewHome, and there are people handing you cigarettes and telling you that everything will be alright, that you can beat things up in the jungle for clothes, and here is a flyer for new people. Or maybe they give you tea, or sandwiches, or cookies, or steak, or scones, or milkshakes. You start thinking 'maybe this isn't so bad'. Then you go into the CG and nobody seems to think that there is anything wrong with this island at all. It's a party! And you finally make it to Pleasantville for some steak and meet some grizzled veteran who says that he didn't like it when he first got here, either, but now he's adapted.
And then you go and beat the Drive, and it's not as scary as you thought, and it remakes itself anyway, and now you're a kittymorph, or a zombie, and now you can tell other nude humans that things aren't so bad, and maybe you'll help them find some clothes.

Basically what I am saying is that it is nice to have some reinforcement that it is the end of the world, and that it doesn't bother experienced islanders as much as it bothers you - who just got dropped out of a plane nude and may have landed rather badly and anyway there were bombs - because they are used to it, or crazy, or both.

But my favourite place to rp has always been right in the towns. People can see you and join in, but you're not trying to shout through a pile of other people like you would in the CG. But now I really feel like a jerk if I do that. This is hilarious, because while rp-wise Ada might be veryvery interested in that sandwich someone just dropped, or concussed, or tired, or asleep, player-wise I am probably burning new days to keep monsters out of an outpost. I still feel like a jerk for not roleplaying that I am out there beating up monsters, though, which is kindof sad. The roleplay that's left in towns seems out of touch, or incredibly self-centred.

As I'm writing this, I believe that NewHome, New Pitts, Cyber City, and Central are all breached. I haven't checked them to be sure, but I'm fairly certain that every one of those outposts has fallen in the last four hours. That is way too many kinds of too much. As a player, I'm no longer motivated to go save them. They just fall again! As a character, I am going to have to go support an outpost if it is falling. If you point Ada in a direction and say "go there, do this", and you look like you know more than she does (this is not hard), she will go there, and do that.
I've found that I'm making myself rp-obvious in outposts less, because as a player I'm tired of just running from one outpost to the next all the darn time. If I make Ada obvious, someone will probably tell her to go to Cyber City, and then I grumble and get walking.
It would be much, much more fun if invasions didn't happen very often, but were absolute hell when they did. I'd get excited about them again! I'd want to go rushing off to the other side of the island to help out, rather than going because I feel obligated to.



Edit, because Tyr posted: SO MUCH yes about the reinforcement. I've got to nearly level 80, but I will still have moments where I smack a board up there for 2hp, 7hp, 5hp... If you were a real-life carpenter with a record like that, no one would want to hire you! Surely I am not that incompetent.


 
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Paul Lo
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 04:22 PM UTC  
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After having read all comments (ALL), I see that people care about others' wellbeing (or their selfishness, but it works the same in the end).

I must say, Callia, bravo. You have made a spark in the stock of black powder (and dark thoughts), it is becoming a wonderful firework (yeah!).

Now, since pretty much everything has been talked about (and re-talked about), I will just say this:since the beginning of this module, the player behind Paul, despite clearly saying the contrary, was using with every ounce of willpower (in his fingers) to help the outposts he was in (NP, SH, AH, etc.)(Just look, he's in the Lvl100 in Reinforcement).
But not anymore. Right now the character follows his questing, providing minimal help (from orange stam and whacky days) and some participation in RP in this journey; what he was usually doing before onslaught. Call it a break or whatever you want.

That would be all from me. Back to the game.


Yes, I have a dream, of electronic sheeps and linen bedsheets. But that's not the point. Or isn't it?
 
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Derander
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 05:38 PM UTC  
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Some thoughts (since I find it too hard to put them all into nicely structured sentences).

I'm a powergamer, not a roleplayer and I've found that the Onslaught module has drawn me a bit more into rp'ing and interferes with my DK-grinding. I mention this so it's clear that it's not just the roleplayers that are suffering.

There's the guilt when questing at a peaceful village, the joy when you're doing it at one under attack, the "darn I'm leveling too quickly to get the quest done"... basically, what has been said before, actually, I'd better stop.

I'm curious though, does the Onslaught module take players online into account? 'cause I know that in (my) evenings there are 100+ players online, but this afternoon there were the whole 17... and every bloody outpost I went to with the exception of Pleasantville was breached or had shops closed. Which is rather annoying if you're lvl1 on a rank7.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 06:36 PM UTC  
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Triage time. In other words, time to see how we can address the biggest problems in the shortest amount of time, on the understanding that we'll build upon these solutions later on (but for now let's just fix it damn it). Here's what I'm doing right now:

1. Sorting out a multiple-round reinforcement thing.
2. Adjusting the amount of HP given to the walls per reinforcement (making it less random).
3. Lowering the master difficulty slider.
4. Lowering the wall damage multiplier.

This is stuff I can do in a couple of hours, tops.


 
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g_rock
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 07:26 PM UTC  
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Love the bulk reinforcement!

Excited about the other changes as well, but they're less visible.


 
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talkydoor
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 07:28 PM UTC  
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Um, I'm sure this is just me whining, but:

is it right that I get no exp for defeating the overrunning monsters, but still lose exp when I (inevitably) fail?

Cry


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 07:29 PM UTC  
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No. No, it isn't. I'll take a look at this now.


 
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talkydoor
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 07:30 PM UTC  
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Thank you! I'll get back over there, then...

Big Grin


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 07:41 PM UTC  
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Fix'd!

(EXP rewards are now a bit more appropriate to the monster, too)


 
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Hairy Mary
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 07:56 PM UTC  
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Bulk reinforcements - massive improvement!
The rest? Have to wait and see overall effects.


 
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crashtestpilot
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 08:12 PM UTC  
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Quote by: K.K.+Victoria

Well, to me it sounded like,

"I've been fighting long and hard for so long! Where is my cookie?"

-The response would have to be, "Well, the baker's over there dying/fighting for their life/engaged in the defense/rallying the troops. You'll have to go without. Sorry."



@KK,

I am really sorry to have come off as striking that particular tone.
Your response, OTOH: Brilliant!
I just wish I'd penned it myself.

~CTP


 
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calliaphone
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 08:12 PM UTC  
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bloody hell, that was fast. CMJ - thank you HUGELY for these changes, and for listening.


 
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crashtestpilot
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 08:17 PM UTC  
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Two more cents:
a) multiple reinforcements - good.
b) let's assume I'm in NP, wading through critters, and I manage to slap up 500 points of wall. Is there a threshold where the wall is big enough to stop the invasion? If so, what is it? Because that would make the case for a coordinated effort, by a clan say, to send sufficient members to a town to stop the invasion.
c) Or is it simply a matter of killing everything in a town (ie, 100s of invasion critters) to get the invasion to stop. In short, what is the best way to fix a breach? It's pretty clear I can't do it by myself. I'm just wondering if anyone has done this yet, and what the strategy might be.

~CTP


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 08:23 PM UTC  
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@CTP:

a) Glad you think so.
b) As it is right now, the Breach will stop once the Outpost wall hitpoints are higher than the number of monsters assaulting the Outpost.
c) The best way to fix a breach depends on the breach. If it's faster to fix the walls, do it - but the monsters aren't going to go away. No matter what the level of the walls, no Outpost will be breached if there are fewer than a thousand monsters stalking it. If there are more than 800 monsters, the walls take damage.

On the subject of making the invasions less frequent but more bloody, I'm tempted to make it so that the wall hitpoints drop immediately all the way to zero if an Outpost is breached. That should certainly prolong the length of the attack.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 08:23 PM UTC  
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Can I say, don't necessarily want it too much easier, just happening a bit less often.

Edit: Wow CMJ, you read my post before I'd posted it! Eek!
Now that's taking 'listening to your players' to whole new levels.


 
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calliaphone
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 09:04 PM UTC  
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but is there a reason why some outposts don't get overrun, even when wall hitpoints are zero and threat level is max (i'm assuming threat levels equate to number of monsters?) (eg IC today - HP zero most of the day, pub closed, Watcher on her way - but not a monster in sight within the town boundaries).


 
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g_rock
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 09:08 PM UTC  
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See CMJ's previous post, we must've kept the monster numbers under 1000, but over 800 to knock the walls down


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 09:09 PM UTC  
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The description of the Watcher being on her way is output when the warning level is above 90 - when it's above 100 the Outpost is breached. So I should probably write another bit of flavour text for when the alert level is over 100 but the walls are keeping the monsters out.


 
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crashtestpilot
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 09:38 PM UTC  
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A few folo-ups:

a) Do monsters (here comes another one!) killed in breach count against total no of monsters attacking city?
b) Do they count differently than ones encountered in jungle? Are these two numbers actually one number?
c) Do monster numbers replenish during a breach or is it a static pool?

Looking for strategy fodder here.
I'd like to see if we can retake NP.

~CTP


 
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