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Gorbert
 Thursday, February 18 2010 @ 05:26 AM UTC (Read 20414 times)  
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The houses are in, I learned about half an hour ago! (I do not keep up with the Enquirer, so I am badly behind the times.) So, since the Dwellings thread is like 10 pages long, this will be a convenient new thread to express your opinions on the new feature.

To start off, I was dismayed that there are only four plots available at any location on the map. The towns will fill up immediately, which is no big deal, there's still the area right around the towns. But with as many people play this game, it probably won't take long for those to start filling up, either. And for someone with only 18 cigs at the moment, getting the 100 necessary to buy a plot might take a distressingly long time. It just doesn't seem fair to limit the most easily accessible plots to people who had 100 cigs on hand at the right moment.

(Sorry to start this off in a negative way. I understand that Dan's put a lot of hard work into this, and I'm not ripping his throat out about this, just expressing my view on the matter. Something to maybe consider.)


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Thursday, February 18 2010 @ 12:46 PM UTC  
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I couldn't appreciate the limit more, actually. There is no need to stuff these squares like slums. Four is enough, and if you need the cigarettes for it, spend some DP.

Hell, I spent some DP to get all four plots on one square, just to own it (It is a brilliant investment.)

Also, Dan. Thank you kindly.


"You saved Pineapple!"
 
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Bernard
 Thursday, February 18 2010 @ 11:45 PM UTC  
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I'm utterly in awe, and I haven't even got a sideboard. A one room shack is giving me a frisson, and I love it.


 
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Gorbert
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 12:47 AM UTC  
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Begging your pardon, KK, but not everyone can afford to spend money on the game and earn enough DPs to do that. You yourself once made such a point about houses.


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 03:38 AM UTC  
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Which this has absolutely nothing to do with, whatsoever.

I was pointing out that I used the limit to my advantage by simply buying all of the stakes with some DP.

I never said that someone else ought to do the same thing. I am not suggesting that you...

Wait, what the Hell are you implying that I suggested?

-Also. You honestly didn't think to be saving cigarettes when "The end of the week is neigh" was announced?


"You saved Pineapple!"
 
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Mack
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 04:23 AM UTC  
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I have to say, the amount of effort it requires to have even so much as a one room house with a decent description for each part is both a good and bad thing. It took me about 15 ciggies and just as many chrono's to finish everything in my one room house. This is a good thing in a way, because it raises the difficulty of someone having a 10 room house with 2 paragraph descriptions. But it is also a bad thing, in that the average user, who has few DP will have a very rough time getting that far.

That aside, I like the new system. Though I hope there are more things to come in the future, as a chat space alone is a little dull, whereas a chat space with training or bonus facilities is a little more exciting. One thing that would be nice to have though is an option to give certain players the key to your house. Meaning that if you locked a room(s) specific people would still be able to access them, and use the sleeping space/bonus facilities found therein. I imagine this is all already planned at some point, but I just thought I'd add my two cents.


You can toast them, but it's dark magic. - MotPax on hotdog buns.
 
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Hairy Mary
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 04:32 AM UTC  
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First of all DWELLINGS!! YIPPEE!! Dan I love you and I want to have your babies.

Second. I'm with KK on the above debate. Whatever his thoughts on dwellings and donators, he's playing with the system as is. Anyway, as I recall, he only said that Dwellings shouldn't be off limits to non donators. Not that donators shouldn't have any advantages. The ability to buy cigs and req has always been with us, and hasn't caused any problems that I've noticed. This is just an extension of that.

Having said that...if too many people start using DP to buy entire squares, then there may be a bit of a problem, there's only so many squares to go round, but at the moment I don't see that it's a problem at all.

Third. Is there anyway two or more people could pool cigs to help buy a stake?


 
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Beeker
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 04:59 AM UTC  
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The collaborative nature of the building is, in my opinion, one of the more exciting features of this system. I'm really liking it!

So, I'd be in favor of Hairy Mary's idea of a way for people to pool resources to set up a stake. That would make it even more collaborative, and would also mean that there wouldn't be as much of a land rush, because lots of people would have shared houses.

Also, I'm looking forward to when the key system will become more flexible and we'll be able to give out multiple keys to a house, which will again make it easier to have collective projects.


 
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Zolotisty
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 05:15 AM UTC  
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Much the same way that Improbable Labs is closed to players with fewer than 10 DKs, some things come with seniority and time on the Island. It takes time in the Jungle to gather the money to buy a ring to marry another player or to play with any of the fancy equipment in Sheila's. It takes time in the Jungle to collect the cigarettes to upgrade your backpack, or max your clan buffs, or to purchase a land claims stake.

These aren't things that should be easy to do. In fact, the entire point is that they aren't easy. Neat things with a high entry level provide incentive for players to work toward a goal and spend more time on the Island. More time on the Island means you're likelier to make friends, tell people about the game, or donate to the site. We likes these things.

Dwellings are designed as collaborative. Mack, you say that it took you a lot of hauling around and a lot of chronospheres? Yuh! That'll happen, if you're doing it all on your own. Tossing a house together on your own sweet lonesome is always going to be harder than pulling four or five friends together for a barn-raising; the point is for people to find those four or five friends so that a building goes up in two hours or less, instead of two IRL days.

People keep angling for tool kits somewhere other than IC; people keep angling for cheaper stakes. People are privately mumbling about high stamina costs. People are certainly paranoid about squares going away and oh my goodness there are six hundred and fifty four buildable squares on the map (or thereabouts, anyway), and each one holds four potential dwellings, so that 2616 buildings that can ever be built on Improbable Island and perhaps a hundred have already been nabbed in the first day.

2616! Why, we have almost that many players! And almost 1800 of them logged in in the last week. I- isn't that a problem? Everything is going away, aaah!

Well, nawh. :/

Everyone who wants a Dwelling will have one. If we suddenly run out of space, if someone literally lays claim to the very last spot on the entire Island ever, there will be a zoning adjustment. And besides -- the world map is going to undergo radical change in S3. We will never run out of spaces for people to build in S3.

As it is, construction is supposed to be a pain in the ass. Don't be disappointed by that; don't be lazy and try to nose around for longer rental times on the kits or kits situated in an Outpost that's more convenient for you, personally. You are supposed to feel as though you worked for it and earned it, from collecting your cigarettes for the stake to "jesus christ why am I schlepping like two hundred kilos of stone down to NewHome." It is not supposed to be something you can whack together in an afternoon, and because it's something that more senior players are most likely to be interested in, it doesn't have to be rook-friendly.

The folks who are gobbling up spaces right now have earned 'em. Awesome things always require a bit of elbow grease. Stakes should be singleton ventures. You earn that part yourself, or you buy it with DPs; then you tug your friends in with construction.

It's worth it. They are awesome, it is worth it. Just gotta put in the time.

Wink


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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Mack
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 05:44 AM UTC  
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I agree wholeheartedly with you on that Zolotisty, but I actually didn't do it all myself. I did the wood myself, and my friend handled the stone herself. (That's a heck of a feat to take the stone from 404 all the way to the beach SE of Kit.) I just found it a little tough to find willing volunteers to help build my house while they worked on their own. I have no complaints with the system, I was just stating what it took me to complete my meager beach house.

Edit: I do remember one small thing that bothered me, whenever I want to change the description of a room, say if I added a small present such as a painting or a plant into it, I have to redecorate for the same number of times that I already have, and then more for the text you just added. I don't think it would require you to tear down all the wallpaper and replace the flooring just to put a plant in a corner, or an end table beside a couch. But that's just my silly opinion.


You can toast them, but it's dark magic. - MotPax on hotdog buns.
 
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K.K. Victoria
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 12:50 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

\
Second. I'm with KK on the above debate. Whatever his thoughts on dwellings and donators, he's playing with the system as is. Anyway, as I recall, he only said that Dwellings shouldn't be off limits to non donators. Not that donators shouldn't have any advantages. The ability to buy cigs and req has always been with us, and hasn't caused any problems that I've noticed. This is just an extension of that.



See? Thank you very much Hairy.

Least someone was listening...


"You saved Pineapple!"
 
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Bakemaster
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 06:38 PM UTC  
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On the subject of keys and locked rooms:

I don't know what the current functionality is exactly, but it occurs to me to request that a person carrying a key be able to enter and exit rooms *without* automatically changing their locked/unlocked status. That way, if the owner decides to make an "office" room private by locking it, but gives a key to another user (business partner, let's say), neither has to worry about re-locking the room every time they enter and leave.

On the subject of cooperation and claiming a stake:

I am not much of a role-player, here on the Island, but I definitely am into community interaction. It's somewhat exciting for me to think of having my own house, but what I would find far more attractive would be the ability to build my clan hall somewhere on the map. Right now, with stakes as purely singleton ventures, the process can be shared, and once a house is built, access can be shared, but ownership can't be shared, and only individuals may claim ownership.

I would be very excited about the opportunity for my clan to claim a stake, owned not by myself or any fellow clan member, but by the clan itself. I would love being able to set a preference that forces interested players to locate our secret headquarters in order to apply for membership. And imagining stumbling upon the headquarters of another clan while traveling gives me a little thrill of excitement. I would love to have my clan's description come from visiting its actual location, and write the public description in the general Clan Halls differently—perhaps I would need to give the receptionist a death stick or a small bribe in order to be able to place my garish advertisement on the lobby wall. Or maybe things would work differently—in any case, there are a million ways that a clan's presence could be managed which would be far more interesting than the current "click the list, see all the clans" setup. I can feel that I'm getting into territory that's both tangential and more appropriate for additions to a future season than changes to the current season, but I'm just riding this train of thought wherever it goes, while it lasts...

Anyhoo, it seems reasonable that a clan hall would require a greater effort than an individual dwelling. Perhaps it takes up two of the four available plots. Perhaps it takes one, but costs more (commercial permit, and all). Perhaps the claim is handled in the same way, and can be made by any Leader or Founder, but only one can be in existence for a given clan. Perhaps it can be demolished, the claim sold, and moved to another location... perhaps not. Most likely it would require a far greater volume of materials than an individual house, and perhaps it would have some additional requirement. Or perhaps it will simply be functionally identical to other dwellings, with the only difference being that it ownership is registered with the clan rather than with an individual, and the rest could be worked out purely with whatever resources the player already has at their disposal. Whatever the cost, I would be willing to pay—even DP, provided we retain the ability to obtain DP in some way that does not involve real currency (monster hut, monster rating, referral link, and so on).

I would get so much more enjoyment out of building a clan hall that I'm reconsidering even buying myself a house at this point. 100 cigarettes is a good chunk of a buff payment, and my clan is my priority. Building myself a house does relatively little that I can see for my clan.


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Count Sessine
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 06:54 PM UTC  
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I hope that when (fingers crossed!) clan ownership of buildings becomes possible, there will be a mechanism to transfer ownership of an existing building to a clan -- because some clans are going ahead and making their clan halls anyway with what we have now.

I also hope that there will be a way to create access to and from the clan hall, in a building owned by the clan.


 
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Bakemaster
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 07:10 PM UTC  
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That last bit sounds like effortless teleportation from any village on the map to and from the clan hall... which I would find to be a bit much, personally. Unless you meant it differently.


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CavemanJoe
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 07:21 PM UTC  
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I think Sessine meant replicating the functionality of the clan hall. Which, along with everything mentioned about clans already, is feasible with the new Dwellings system.

(in Season Three, all weapons and armour will be IItems, all possible actions will be Stamina actions, and all buildings (including shops etc) will be based on Dwellings)


 
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Gorbert
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 09:59 PM UTC  
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My initial problem, the only thing I've had issue with, is the limited number of plots per land. Yeah, there are rather a lot of spaces available. But I don't really want to walk several squares away from a outpost through jungle. 2616 squares? Yeah, that's a lot of building space. Most of it isn't very close to outposts, and I want my house to be easily accessible. I have no problem with the cost, stamina or cig, because the costs were outlandish in S1, too. It was something to work for. This, I understand and appreciate.

Having spoken civilly and plainly, it's pretty aggravating to me that I was greeted with antagonism.


 
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Count Sessine
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 10:12 PM UTC  
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What I meant was (simple version) entering clan hall from a clan-owned building, and exiting clan hall back to the square you entered from rather than to an outpost. No teleportation involved.

OR (more exciting, but should be expensive), being able to enter a clan-owned building from the clan hall, role-play there, move about the rooms, and then leave -- to find yourself back in clan hall, rather than on the world map.

The basic rule for clan hall would still be, you go back out to wherever you entered from.

I also really hope ownership transfers are eventually going to be available between players, as well as from players to a clan.


 
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Zpatula
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 10:45 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

...in Season Three... all possible actions will be Stamina actions...



Say it ain't so! I've tried to play games where everything you did cost some form of 'stamina' and the result was always really frustrating. Do I send a PM or move a square with my remaining stamina? Bah! Don't do it!


I ATE PINEAPPLE!
 
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Bakemaster
 Friday, February 19 2010 @ 10:52 PM UTC  
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I'm guessing that communication isn't included in "actions". But that's an assumption. I hope we won't be spending any significant amount of stamina to do things like browse through Shelia's for new stuff at the beginning of a DK... And personally, I'd wince at the thought of having to expend stamina to purchase or sell an item, as that's a cost that I'd have to pay several hundreds of times in the course of a healthy trade run! Though it would probably be only fair.


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Rosin
 Saturday, February 20 2010 @ 12:09 AM UTC  
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Personally, I do like the idea of pulling together a few friends to build a house, though I think (given that I personally have done this IRL, though it was a b****) it should be more'n possible for five friends to knock together the general frame and foundation of a six room house (or foundation and frame of a three room house, what with having to use actual stone instead of concrete) within a single morning. High weight and stamina cost I definitely do understand (since after preforming said feat of skill and labor I slept for thirteen hours), but this brings up another far off longing of mine:

Where oh where did my BullDozer go?

I did so adore that massive GEBoB, with his big shaggy coat and his wide grille of a mouth. I think they could be a drastic return here, for a variety of reasons. (Helping you carry loads of stone from the mountains, for instance. Or maybe just carrying around that toolbox while you carry 250kg of rock yourself.) I think this new Dwellings system opens up wonderful opportunities for this old mount of S1 and prior.


Anyway, more feedback on dwellings! Awesome. I like the idea of having dwellings on the map, but I do somewhat miss the city-based dwellings as well, tough these would be MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE to keep around staminawise what with the constant outpost invasions and repairs, unless of course your Hired Goons (AKA former PvP guards) to keep your house relatively protected. Those, of course, would cost extra cigs, but just maybe they'd be worth it.

Mapsquaresmapsquaresmapsquares. I do enjoy the idea of a limit, yes I do. No point in having 30 houses in one square kilometer. But really? Look around you. Chances are, there are at least 6 houses within a klick's walk away from you. Probably more. DEFINITELY more if you live in a city or those dastardly suburbs. But what I'm really going for with this little part is, terrain! Logically, you'd have far less houses in a square kilometer of swamp than plains, with jungle halfway in between. Perhaps in S3 terrain type will have an effect on the amount of house plots per square?

Preemptive question answer regarding first paragraph, I've dabbled in professional construction, and those 5 friends were professional contractors. Still a b**** to pull off, though. Maybe a two room house then, given the supposed average level of skill of abducted contestants.


A magpie's work is never done.
 
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