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Paul Lo
 Sunday, March 07 2010 @ 09:13 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Booya

Is theft really that much of a problem? So far I haven't had any trouble, my myself, cutting a few rocks at a time on CC404 and dropping them on the ground until I have enough to one-shot out. I think it works decently because as long as it only takes a few minutes, odds are a thief isn't going to stumble across it that quickly. Whereas if you leave your building materials out all night, you can probably assume they'll be gone in the morning.



The problem is, with such a grand project as Dunbernarding (an only one person to order extensions. I'm looking at you, old fellow), we have to think much, much in advance when we bring materials out of the source; three or four stones disappearing might be irritating when you just finished hauling them from the mountains, but what about 40? A little less than a lucky day for some (me), but an awful lot of work still for everybody. And the fact that the place is on a traveling road doesn't help.

We put stuff at places so others can help us out, be that fellow clannies or good samaritans (and bored blokes).


Think in a more realistic context; what would happen to someone who stole a day's work of wood from lumberjacks? In my awesomely twisted mind, I see crazy bearded axe-swingers making mince meat of the thief and his mean of transport.

Don't steal from others, folks. Be respectable contestants.


Yes, I have a dream, of electronic sheeps and linen bedsheets. But that's not the point. Or isn't it?
 
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Gorbert
 Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 05:45 AM UTC  
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Theft of materials is kind of annoying. As someone said--Sessine, I believe--there should be a way to know who took your stuff, at least some measure of risk for thieves (chainsaw wielding lumberjack berserkers is an amusing image, thank you, Paul).

Still, I accept it as part of the game. *shrugs* At least it will give me more opportunity to build up my stonecutting levels after someone stole 19 blocks from me in the two minutes I was away from the house.

I still say that toolkits should be available in other outposts. I think it would make sense for the land purchase office to be located in Improbable Central--that's a rather significant legal function, it would be plausible to have it in one spot. But I think that the toolkits should be made available elsewhere.


 
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Count Sessine
 Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 06:57 AM UTC  
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But, Gorbert! having the kits available everywhere would make building too easy. It's not supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be a challenge in logistics -- and the most efficient answer is different depending on where you're building, and what kind of travel buffs you have. Taking out the required daily stop in IC would simplify the process too much.

As for theft, it is beyond annoying, it's infuriating. All the same, I'm not in favor of any measure that would make it impossible. Risk is part of the game.

And I think there's a reason there is no chance of getting caught. I personally have had moments when I wanted to throttle whoever walked off with my stones or logs. It would be oh-so-satisfying to know who it was so I could... whoa! Could what?

Engage in Bad Drama, is what. We don't have a legal system on the Island. What would we get? A lot of contention. A shitstorm. It's not worth it. It's far better for the atmosphere of the game as a whole for people to be briefly furious at an unidentifiable someone, than at a specific, known, fellow player.


 
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Gorbert
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 02:32 AM UTC  
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A valid point. But I still don't think theft should be risk free. There are plenty of possible pitfalls for thieves that could be implemented entirely by the game without involving the person who owns the supplies. For instance, the stack of logs could shift while you're trying to steal them and crush you beneath its weight, sending you straight to the Failboat. Or someone could see you and spread it around (metaphorically speaking, because no players would actually find out) that you're a thief and your Charm takes a blow equivalent to that caused by swimming in Skronky Juice. There are tons of options for punishing thieves without causing bad drama between people.

As for the toolkits, I don't think that having them more widely available would make it too easy. It would just make it easier. There's still the issue of massive stamina costs, the large amount of supplies needed to complete a single room, the ever present threat of theft, and the rather high cost of renting. I don't see why it's necessary for toolkits to be exclusive to IC.


 
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Count Sessine
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 02:41 AM UTC  
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Slight problem with an in-game punishment -- the game can't distinguish between thieves and friends cooperating in a work team. We don't want to discourage the latter!


 
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Epaphus
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 02:53 AM UTC  
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(Note to self: Find where Sessine leaves stones or logs, and walk off with one, just because.)

Wait--Did I just say that out loud?


 
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Gorbert
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 03:07 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Slight problem with an in-game punishment -- the game can't distinguish between thieves and friends cooperating in a work team. We don't want to discourage the latter!



Ah, true Confused

Damn. Well, it was a thought.


 
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KimmyMonstah
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 03:29 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Gorbert

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Slight problem with an in-game punishment -- the game can't distinguish between thieves and friends cooperating in a work team. We don't want to discourage the latter!



Ah, true Confused

Damn. Well, it was a thought.



Plus, there are some of us who meet up in spots to give logs/stones to other people by dropping a heap in one spot while they're there.
If someone's trying to be nice and the game decided to punish them, well...that'd just be silly!


 
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Cake Ninja
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 04:28 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Slight problem with an in-game punishment -- the game can't distinguish between thieves and friends cooperating in a work team. We don't want to discourage the latter!



A thought: (Please ignore this if I'm missing whatever mark I'm trying to hit.)

Rather than an automatic punishment for theft, maybe if you're on the map square you placed your logs/stones on while they're taken, you get some sort of notification as to it being taken and by whom. Also, there would be some sort of punishment you can inflict on them if you so choose. (Maybe ask Horatio to do something to them?) It would probably be a bit of work to code, as it would require the materials to remember who dropped them, but it would add risk to being a thief without unfairly punishing kind people.


 
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Gorbert
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 05:03 AM UTC  
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Well, what Sessine said in an earlier comment still holds true. It would be perfectly logical to see who's stealing from you if you're right there, but it could easily lead to bad drama, and we don't need more.


 
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Count Sessine
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 05:57 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Epaphus

(Note to self: Find where Sessine leaves stones or logs, and walk off with one, just because.)

Wait--Did I just say that out loud?

Why, thank-you, Epaphus! Now if I find stones or logs suddenly missing, I will assume that they have been 'donated' to enhance your elegant edifice.

And I don't mind that, at all.

(Note to self: leave a little something on Epaphus' doorstep, just because.)


 
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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 06:06 AM UTC  


I don't know if it's been suggested already, but I have for a while been thinking that it would be nice if we could drop our materials within the dwelling they're meant for. I mean, some people are stealing because they're assholes, but some people might not realize that the materials on that map square are for the house next door, not their house? And that would be a much nicer way of sort of stockpiling goods and sharing the fun between friends without having to guard the map square like rabid wolverines.

Just a thought.


 
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jamesb
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 07:58 AM UTC  
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Keys, please.


 
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Gorbert
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 08:14 AM UTC  
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Quote by: jamesb

Keys, please.



Keys would be nice, yes. I know they've been mentioned before, I don't know if they're being made. Status on them, anyone?

Ah, and I'd like to take the opportunity to say that, after having finally experienced homeownership and homebuilding...ship, I am very pleased with the way the whole thing has worked out. A lot more fun than [enter how many turns you want to spend on building] Repeat until dwelling is finished. There's more of a sense of accomplishment here than in S1. Thank you, Dan, and well done.


 
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Mr Geppetto
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 11:40 AM UTC  
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I totally agree with all of the above!
Uh, wait, not all of it of course, that would be a bit like being asked "tea or coffee?" and answering "Yes."

To sum it up: dwellings are awesome. Awesomeness itself could not be more awesome.
Keys: I'd love keys, maybe at least a very simple version of. If at all possible.

Storage. At first I say "Yay!". Then, after thinking a bit more I'm all against it. Regular item storage a no-no, for reasons better stated above. Construction material storage, I'd incline towards no, as well, for the risk of getting your materials stolen will make you plan ahead and make building more of a communal effort. I'm also against identifying/punishing thieves, either by the game or by the players. It's a jungle, people, materials get stolen sometimes even from organized building sites. For all your character knows, those 3 logs could have been removed by a monster or a mischievous Watcher. It happened to me, as well, it was unpleasant but hey, I work around it.

Construction work status? I was thinking, wouldn't it be nice to have some form of information on the state of your construction works? A distraction from the system, the same type you get for a transfer, to let you know a kind stranger did some work at your house while you were away? This way you could thank them and, also, you won't end up carrying a stone masonry kit all the way up to CC, only to find the work completed. Happened to me, ended up passing on the kindness and doing some work on my neighbor's houses, which, of course, wasn't a bad thing, only not very much in character for my character. But I, the player, hate waste so....

Connecting rooms: It would be fun to be able to connect rooms circularly, maybe even have some one-way connections, the sort you get for a secret passage that can be used from only one end. Example: Main room-regular door-library; Main room-regular door-guest bedroom; Library-secret passage-guest bedroom, you could only use the secret passage from the Library to the guest bedroom, not vice-versa. *sigh* That would be lovely.

Working kitchens, I don't know, really. A small stamina boost, a little better than cooking after a fight, I'd say is ok. More than that would be unbalancing, I guess.

Beds. All for it. And hammocks, and daybeds, and ornate four posters, nail beds, inflatable mattresses, haystacks, futons. Maybe a bit more restrictive than decorating a room, more in like a upgrading system. From floor to sleeping bag, from sleeping bag to mattress and so on, to the four poster king size waterbed with incorporated massage and light therapy functions. I'm ranting.


 
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Ada
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 02:11 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Mr+Geppetto

Beds. All for it. And hammocks, and daybeds, and ornate four posters, nail beds, inflatable mattresses, haystacks, futons. Maybe a bit more restrictive than decorating a room, more in like a upgrading system. From floor to sleeping bag, from sleeping bag to mattress and so on, to the four poster king size waterbed with incorporated massage and light therapy functions. I'm ranting.



The upgrade system is interesting, but I'd really rather just be able to change the word "floor" to whatever word I would like. I don't want a four poster king size waterbed with massage function in my garden! But there isn't a floor there, so I'd really rather be able to call it "bench space available" or somesuch.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 03:54 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Mr+Geppetto

Connecting rooms: It would be fun to be able to connect rooms circularly, maybe even have some one-way connections, the sort you get for a secret passage that can be used from only one end. Example: Main room-regular door-library; Main room-regular door-guest bedroom; Library-secret passage-guest bedroom, you could only use the secret passage from the Library to the guest bedroom, not vice-versa. *sigh* That would be lovely.



Yep. Being able to put in new doors between already existing rooms (or between a pre-existing room and outside) would be rather nice.

One way doors? As I understand it, locks are already only one way aren't they? In the above example, build your passage coming off the guest bedroom, then put in another door from there to the library. Keep the guest bedroom/passage way door locked. So then you can't go into the passage from the bedroom, but you can come out the other way. That is how locks work isn't it? I haven't got too far through the building process yet, and I've still got plenty to learn.

Also, is it possible to build rooms without floor space/chat space? Suppose you want a fireman's pole between two rooms (on different floors). Then you want a new "room" between these two rooms with just flavour text saying "You slide down a fireman's pole, Whee!!!" or something similar, and then just the one option to go to the bottom, exit room. You'd probably want to make it one way, as above. You're unlikely to want to have people catching forty winks half way down your pole.

But whatever happens. Dwellings are pretty damn good, I'm loving them.


 
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tehdave
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 06:33 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

You're unlikely to want to have people catching forty winks half way down your pole.



Nope...ruins the moment.

But to be back on topic, yeah I'd like to be able to change the "floor space" in, for instance, my workshop to "Workbench space", or the lounge to "Couch Space"...


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 07:28 PM UTC  


Hairy Mary is talkin' about just what I was thinking! Rooms without floor space and/or chatspace. That would be awesome.

And since we're talking about fireman poles and secret passages, it would also be pretty cool if we could rename the links from Room A to Room B. For example, you Enter the Secret Passage and end up in Geppetto's Sex Dungeon or whatever. Or you Slide Down the Fire Pole and end up in A Pool Full of Crocodiles. Renaming the links might be a little too fancy to be easily done, but that's just an idea there.


 
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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Friday, March 12 2010 @ 07:45 PM UTC  


Poo on edit time limit! Renaming the links wouldn't actually be as fancy as all that, so I just wanted to babble at you all for a moment:

Renaming your floor spaces could work on the same principle. Upgrading names of links to rooms and floorspaces, perhaps, could cost you. As far as room links go, players would need to be able to write two link titles: the enter, and the return to. For example, enter would be Slide Down the Fire Pole, and return would be Shimmy Back Up There. Everything else, such as the locked text and the owner management options, could just refer to the actual room name: A Pool Full of Crocodiles. If you wanted to be super fancy, owners could also change the locked room text.

You'd pretty much just need to change the output from "Enter [roomname]" to "[linkname]". Same idea with the floorspaces, instead of outputting "Floor Space Available," output "[sleepspot] Available".

If I'm so clever, why aren't I coding this myself? Oh yeah. I'm lazy and don't have Dwelling source code.

/blah blah blah


 
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