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 Trains, Cards, and Dwellings
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crashtestpilot
 Tuesday, August 24 2010 @ 05:41 PM UTC (Read 8109 times)  
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Goodness me, I see more of Ashtu's Anarchy Annex these days than I ever had before, and most of you card-carrying folks know why.

I am also blissfully happy with Sessine's train system.

Here's are my two questions:
a) Is it possible for one's dwelling become a card depot? How?
b) Let's assume there's a grand dwelling with a soon-to-be-rather-elaborate Subway system. Is it possible to connect it to the rail system somehow?

All best,

~CTP


 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, August 24 2010 @ 07:13 PM UTC  
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Here are my two answers:

a) Not easily, and never just for the asking! These are Improbable cards; they must not be predictable. Mr. Green
b) See a).

There is a Trains 1.1 under consideration, though, in which card-finding will require more effort and more communication, and... there might be some new things to do.


 
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Ashtu
 Tuesday, August 24 2010 @ 07:20 PM UTC  
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Quote by: crashtestpilot

Goodness me, I see more of Ashtu's Anarchy Annex these days than I ever had before, and most of you card-carrying folks know why.

Yeah, and I would REALLY appreciate it if all you folks would at least knock the mud/blood/gore off your boots before you come in. And if you drink the last cup of coffee, make a fresh pot!!


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crashtestpilot
 Tuesday, August 24 2010 @ 10:47 PM UTC  
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@Ashtu: That gore was there already. Moreover, I have no idea how it got into the coffeepot.
Also, can you replenish the coffee tin? Last thing I saw in there was a half empty container of Nescafe instant, two coffee beans and a shrunken midget head -- not to be redundant.

And would it KILL you to have a Brita filter? Also running water?

Yeesh,

~CTP


 
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Ashtu
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 12:03 AM UTC  
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Quote by: crashtestpilot

....can you replenish the coffee tin? Last thing I saw in there was a half empty container of Nescafe instant, two coffee beans and a shrunken midget head -- not to be redundant.
And would it KILL you to have a Brita filter? Also running water?....

Huh-huh. Didn't look BEHIND the file cabinet, did you? Even Reverb could figure that one out.


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crashtestpilot
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 02:59 AM UTC  
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I heard strange noises emanating from there, so I got out as quickly as I could after shaking some Nescafe crystals and some powdered creamer into my canteen.
Leave it in the sun for an hour, and it's a decent cuppa.

~CTP


 
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Reverb
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 03:14 AM UTC  
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Well, the Dunbernarding has more than adequate provisions for the hungry or weary card-collector. And, of course, at least three card-spots! (There might actually be more that we simply haven't found yet...)


"Censure acquits the Raven, but pursues the Dove." "So, that means i'm -always- innocent, right?"
 
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Miss Hellebore
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 06:23 AM UTC  
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Four card spots! (The ominbus has one.)


 
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Harris
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 06:40 AM UTC  
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I found one in one of my hairballs yesterday.


"Ain't nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile." -The Grateful Dead
 
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Ashtu
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 03:36 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Miss+Hellebore

Four card spots! (The ominbus has one.)

Quote by: Harris

I found one in one of my hairballs yesterday.

A card? Or an ominbus? (is that anything like an omnibus?)


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Count Sessine
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 06:14 PM UTC  
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Yanking this thread back on track by sheer force of will (Yeah, right... See how long that lasts!)...

Since I am doing some tweaking to the Trains system, now would be a good time for people to mention changes they'd like to see. No promises -- but if you don't say something now, chances are it won't happen!

As I said above: cards are going to get harder to find, and there are going to be some limits put on both rail pass use, and the number of cards you can hold. I want to make trading cards easier. There might also be a few special card combinations that will yield interesting results.

So what else should I be thinking about, hm?


 
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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 06:55 PM UTC  
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I was actually going to make a new topic entitled, "I am a nitpicker", but now you've made this thread appropriate:

Get rid of the, "You're so busy fighting in the Jungle that you fail to notice the card hidden under the bush near you," or whatever.

A problem I have with this is that it is one of the only narrative pieces in the game where the player gains knowledge that the player's character does not. Awesome Fred does not know, and will not know, about that card. From his perspective, it does not even exist. I, as the player, don't gain any benefit from knowing that I received a Card-Find event but had already hit the card limit that day. It's all-around needless. Instead, the event should just not be capable of showing up if one hits the card limit of that day.

The reason I was going to make it a separate topic was this digression: the character may know things that the player doesn't--like when I go into the Cool Springs Cafe with 0 req, Awesome Fred peruses the entire menu and finds he can't afford anything, and so I the player receive no options on the left side except to leave. This also means I the player have no list of the costs of the items on the menu. For my first two DKs, I didn't realize that I could purchase steak from the Cool Springs Cafe because the option never came up as I always went in with just enough money for salads, and I thought the text describing steak there was just to mention that the NPC Kittymorph customers were meat-eaters. Once I actually had 500 req with me as I went in, I slapped myself in the head for not realizing I could buy steak there as well. And the system still exists in such a way that there could be a 50,000 req meal in the cafe that shoots us up to 3000% stamina and none of us know about it, because the player won't ever know for sure how many items are in the shop unless they waltz in with the maximum amount of req possible, whichever power of 2 it might be.

I find both cases, the player knowing more than the character and the character knowing more than the player, as bad presentation in a game where it is mostly player<->character equivalent knowledge, especially spurred on by the amount of fourth-wall-breaking integrated right into the actual story.

Back to the actual thread-point:

Cards being harder to find: Yes, please!
Limits on rail pass use: Not sure, must see.
Limits on number of cards one can hold: Yes, please!

The new card trading system opened the door to something: intra-player commerce. People can actually provide services (like stone-delivery *coughcough* ) in exchange for cards as payment. Anything that facilitates easier trade, like being able to see someone's Deck if the someone allows it via Preferences, would be most welcome.

For card-finding, I don't find anything particularly lucky the way I do it. Because all I do is visit Dunbernarding and get my fill of cards each day. I think it would be a better design if the cards were randomly placed in different dwellings or rooms that changed every Game day or every person's new day. I don't know how difficult that would be from a programming perspective, however.

I'll have to think of more suggestions later then.


 
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Ashtu
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 07:35 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Yanking this thread back on track by sheer force of will.......

Whaddaya mean? This thread is titled "Trains, Cards, and Dwellings", and that's all we've been talking about......ok, ok, I'll go quietly. *grin*.

My nitpick - I think rail passes should be transferable - I always seem to have more than I really need. Could we gift them, like DP?


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Sydney Fletcher
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 07:52 PM UTC  
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Personally...I'd set a max number of railpasses you could get from having a Joker card -- because otherwise you just keep collecting cards until you reach the point where every new card you collect = another first-class ticket...and really, there's no reason to stop collecting then until you've got a lifetime's supply of rides.

Also, when I read this: "The person accepting this free ticket assumes all risk of accidents, and expressly agrees that the Company shall not be liable, under any circumstances, whether of negligence by their agents or otherwise, for any injury to the person, or for any loss or injury to the property of the passenger using this ticket." I assumed that train-riding was going to be waaaaaay more dangerous than it is. Maybe more along the lines of using Improbability Bombs -- chance of death/substantial HP loss/loss of stuff in your inventory/chance of getting dumped somewhere random/chance of getting where you want. This would mean that you'd think before taking the train, instead of using it like a one-shot on steroids. First-class tickets would of course be assumed to be safer.

And this may just be cosmetic, but why even bother to put a weight on cards -- because nothing happens when you super-overload (i.e. Joker card) except that it stretches out your inventory screen.

Love the train system though. It's great Mr. Green


 
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Count Sessine
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 08:06 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Get rid of the, "You're so busy fighting in the Jungle that you fail to notice the card hidden under the bush near you," or whatever.

Good point, and easily done.

Limits on rail pass use: Not sure, must see.

This is a CMJ *cough*suggestion. Apparently some people have been leveling out the prices in eBoy's a little too easily. His suggested limit of six trips per pass shouldn't seriously hamper other train uses, and it will still allow some enterprising souls to take advantage of eBoy price differentials. Just not unlimited advantage!


 
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Adder Moray
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 08:27 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Get rid of the, "You're so busy fighting in the Jungle that you fail to notice the card hidden under the bush near you," or whatever.

Good point, and easily done.

Limits on rail pass use: Not sure, must see.

This is a CMJ *cough*suggestion. Apparently some people have been leveling out the prices in eBoy's a little too easily. His suggested limit of six trips per pass shouldn't seriously hamper other train uses, and it will still allow some enterprising souls to take advantage of eBoy price differentials. Just not unlimited advantage!



I regards to that, would it not be possible to create a 3rd kind of rail pass, make that one obtainable the same way as 1st class passes are now and leave the "all day unlimited" 1st class passes but, with the combination of limited card holding and this potential special card combo system, making them far far more difficult to obtain?


 
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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 08:34 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine


Limits on rail pass use: Not sure, must see.

This is a CMJ *cough*suggestion. Apparently some people have been leveling out the prices in eBoy's a little too easily. His suggested limit of six trips per game day shouldn't seriously hamper other train uses, and it will still allow some enterprising souls to take advantage of eBoy price differentials. Just not unlimited advantage!



That's even a more not-sure, must-see thing then. The prices of eBoy's for the OST is dependent on more than just demand and its competition with Rail Passes--it is also from supply, and we've had supply crates raining down on us from the Emily Bundles or else just the crazy donating as of late. Furthermore, if Rail Passes were made much less frequent by the other changes, the ride limit would be an overkill change in my view, in theory. Again, not sure, must see. When I got my first couple passes, I treasured them because they were so valuable--I could ride around to Pleasantville for steaks, then Imp Central for Masonry Kit, then CC404 for stone, then Imp Central again to drop off stone to Dunbernarding, and finish it up with a ride to Ace High to grab a card from that one dwelling and then go to a place near a place with a Bed for stamina. Using a Rail Pass was like going out to town that day with your hair slicked back, your nice button shirt looking snazzy, and a bounce in your step.

Once that compendium was released and I knew that all the card drops were permanently in the same dwellings every single time (I thought the Acehigh one was a fluke), lucky days got me 4 out of the 5 cards I needed, and otherwise I still filled up on cards often. Then I got a Joker, and since then, I've racked up enough for 59 First-Classes in my pocket right now. Very easily.

I'd prefer not to have the ride limit because that reduces the Bounce-In-Your-Step factor of actually using the pass (in theory!). I like the stricter card limits and card availability and increase in RNG because that rarity increases the value of actually attaining the card.

But maybe 6 trips per day is fine, since it fits my example, and it turns out my Bouncy-Step is not diminished all. But I go to college in New York City, and I buy the $89 MetroCard unlimited monthly pass for the subway instead of paying per-ride, even though I actually end up taking two rides less per month for my schedule than I would need to take for me to save money by getting this monthly pass. Why? Because sometimes I miss my stop at 68th (way too often) and end up getting off at 77th Street, where there is no in-station transfer between the Uptown and Downtown trains. I'd actually have to pay to get back into the subway system or I'd have to wait until I go to the next station, then transfer there. Instead, I can account for all my mistakes (mis-clicks, if you will) with the safety of the unlimited pass. (It's not the only reason I use the unlimited, there's also the possibility of making friends and spontaneously going to lunch! Hah, yeah.)


 
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Count Sessine
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 09:27 PM UTC  
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CMJ is concerned about unlimited access to "buy low, sell high" trading between branches of eBoy's. Me, I'm not sure that's a bad thing... but he knows a lot more about game balance than I do, so he's probably right.

The price of a one-shot has been lowered by the existence of trains, but it hasn't dropped through the floor -- and you're right, a good part of that has to do with the currently plentiful supply from crates. (Look at what's been happening with medkits, for instance.) The demand definitely hasn't gone away. Trains aren't a replacement for OSTs; they address a different need. When you want to get to a succession of outposts in a hurry, like if you're drive-hunting with only minutes to spare to the newday, nothing beats firing off a rapid succession of one-shots! They also work well in conjunction with first-class passes -- if you're building in a remote location, yes, the train will drop you off there, but to get back to civilization... well, of course you can walk, but that takes stamina that you probably used up on building.

I hear what you're saying, though, about unlimited passes just having a different feel to them.


 
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Rykar
 Wednesday, August 25 2010 @ 10:25 PM UTC  
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Personally speaking, I would be very very sad to see the number of cards that one could hold be limited. Simply because it would absolutely destroy the Improbable Card Trading Cardtel
(shameless plug) Contact Rykar or Buddleia to trade cards for a more efficient hand, and more net passes! (/shameless plug)

However, as much as I do love my role as the Cardfather of the Card-Tel (and I love the puns as well), I would understand if people thought it was bad for gameplay. I think it's a fun take on cooperating to get people more passes, what with making duplicates the only way to get more. On the flip side, centralization can take the fun out of things as well.

And if it is decided that a maximum number of cards is instated, please give us advance warning... the Card-tel would hate for that stock to go to waste.
Oh, and any thoughts on the Card-tel, while I'm talking about it?


 
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Harris
 Thursday, August 26 2010 @ 12:07 AM UTC  
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I really do hope that the number of times we get to ride the train on one pass don't decrease- I don't have a dwelling yet, and have been saving up passes for just that purpose!

Couldn't making the cards more combination specific and/or harder to find balance things just as well?


"Ain't nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile." -The Grateful Dead
 
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