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 RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 10:23 AM UTC  
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Well. There's another Dizzy on the island that I believe is female, and my ex's user name was Dizzy. It didn't occur to me until just now that it was Dizzy, an adjective, Izzy. Sorry about that.


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dizzyizzy
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 10:26 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

Well. There's another Dizzy on the island that I believe is female, and my ex's user name was Dizzy. It didn't occur to me until just now that it was Dizzy, an adjective, Izzy. Sorry about that.



Actually, that female dizzy may have been me. I did a couple dk's as a girlie. And no real offense taken.


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 10:27 AM UTC  
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Quote by: dizzyizzy

Quote by: Beeps

Well. There's another Dizzy on the island that I believe is female, and my ex's user name was Dizzy. It didn't occur to me until just now that it was Dizzy, an adjective, Izzy. Sorry about that.



Actually, that female dizzy may have been me. I did a couple dk's as a girlie. And no real offense taken.


Well, that doesn't help, now does it? Razz


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dizzyizzy
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 10:34 AM UTC  
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Not really.

But, back on topic, does what I'm proposing make sense?

The way I see it, the monsters would flock to one outpost that's already down instead of spreading out their assault.

Personally, I would fight in breaches more, but I don't want to spend the stam/one shot finding out if somewhere's breached. there's probably more people like me out there, so adding the warn level to the council offices would get me out there fighting.


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 10:39 AM UTC  
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Quote by: dizzyizzy

Not really.

But, back on topic, does what I'm proposing make sense?

The way I see it, the monsters would flock to one outpost that's already down instead of spreading out their assault.

Personally, I would fight in breaches more, but I don't want to spend the stam/one shot finding out if somewhere's breached. there's probably more people like me out there, so adding the warn level to the council offices would get me out there fighting.


I do agree that making it so that there's a limited number of outposts under siege at any given point would be helpful. That said, having only one outpost breached doesn't make it any easier to find out what place is breached. I believe Cousjava was working on a module for the council offices, but that's sort of a separate thing.
What I was asking is, how do you determine which outpost is down? What happens to an outpost under attack when a different outpost becomes the newest 'down' outpost? Given that the problem isn't that multiple outposts are down but that CC404 is almost always down, does this solve the problem?


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acheron
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 10:40 AM UTC  
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could certain outposts which are more often overwhelmed have a reduced monster population? I figure that the monsters would hang out where their foodsource (contestants) can be found so there would be fewer monsters needing subduing outside commonly-empty outposts such as CC404, which would reduce their chances of being breached as well as allowing New Home and Kittania some sense of danger, as they now get a denser monster population banging on the doors.


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 10:48 AM UTC  
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Quote by: acheron

could certain outposts which are more often overwhelmed have a reduced monster population? I figure that the monsters would hang out where their foodsource (contestants) can be found so there would be fewer monsters needing subduing outside commonly-empty outposts such as CC404, which would reduce their chances of being breached as well as allowing New Home and Kittania some sense of danger, as they now get a denser monster population banging on the doors.


I think I'd mentioned this in another thread about the same issue, and I think that the new AI may have had something to do with this. But that's speculation. One thing I thought it may be difficult to do was getting a good idea of how many players are in a city for the city's benefit. Say fifteen people are in CC404 - ten of them may just be there to pick up stone.

Someone mentioned (I think it was in Banter) that the system had been put in to try to increase traffic to these locations by making them need assistance. Making it easier for them because they don't get traffic seems to go against the very purpose of the system.


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Maniak
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 11:25 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

Making it easier for them because they don't get traffic seems to go against the very purpose of the system.



The system itself is flawed. CC404 is probably the least visited place, in need of most help. When there are 7 other outposts to choose from, guess what's gonna happen if it goes down? This is the internet. People are selfish and there are no repercussions if you leave to Kittania.

Proposed fixes:

a) Link the Onslaught to the people currently in the Outpost. This will center it around the most populated outposts, NewHome Kittania and Improbable Central. There are enough fighting people there to keep it safe. This might be a problem if player numbers are inflated by pure RP'ers and non-fighting alts, but I personally doubt the severity of that.

b) Wall hitpoints should fall the amount of health the Titan has left once it reaches the outpost. Titans were originally made to warn a Breach was coming. Right now, Titans arrive at CC404 which already has a high threat level, and they're the final nail in the coffin. This is a double-breach mechanism. Walls don't do much for the outlying posts when a titan can spawn less than 4 clicks away. Make walls more useful, and close the bank at lower than 1m hitpoints, the bar at 500k. Anyone from Rookie to Veteran can build a wall, and it'll have a direct impact. It's more community driven than soloing a Titan.

c) Breach is popular only among those high on the DK-ladder, because the grind away from level 1 takes ages. Breach isn't popular because of the fallen Outpost, but because of the exp. The amount of monsters you need to kill at level one goes up by 1 each DK. At DK 50 that's becoming boring. As far as removing Breach itself, that's fine. To negate the cries of those that like the exp grind, either chance the leveling ladder, or give normal exp in the Nightmare court. The way it scales up is perfect. Most of the buffs only last a limited number of rounds and the monster resets to level 1 upon entering, so gargleblasting your way in shouldn't give too much of an unfair advantage.


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SicPuess
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 11:43 AM UTC  
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I say, scrap it. For the moment - not completely.

Thing is, Onslaught has been active for a year now, Titans for a little less - the novelty of it had worn off after a couple of weeks, and I'd say pretty much everyone is accustomed to it now, whether they ignore it (as I do) or are active fighters. It's not new, it's not exciting, it's just annoying for reasons others have explained in quite well-thought-out essays. I'd say that there ought to be some heads among the monsters to decide, /no/, it's /enough/, it's not working. We can have a truce - an uneasy one, of course, as our combattants on either side continue to slaughter each other in one-on-one fights. We could then, hmn - use the Titan mechanic to set up an "Regular Army Of Jungle Inhabitants" as a monster, complete with creature AI like the infamous test server variety of the Blonde Heiress, every once in a while.

Or spies on either side, sabotagers (oh, Kittania's Shack o'Shiny has had its stock of all ammo-based weaponry stolen! One-shots from PV don't work today, they've been gremlin'd! An EMP was set off, all robot-monsters massively debuffed around Kittania now! NO BOOZE IN SQUAT ALL HELL IS BREAKING LOOSE. You could have the midget population turn into Breach-like encounters. Ahmn, should I stop? Probably.)

Which sounds, frankly, like some amount of fun, for some serious amount of work - I don't know. The easier solution would be to just turn off Onslaught for a month, then have it return for a couple of days, turn it off again in irregular intervals, warnings optional. And by warning, I mean broadcasts from the council offices to all outposts.. something like "shit's about to get real in IC everone git there" appended to the town description, much like the current threat levels.


 
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Zpatula
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 09:36 PM UTC  
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This problem has driven me from the game. I was late in a quest cycle in Squat Hole, which was CONSTANTLY breeched. No fun at all. I left for a few days, came back, still breeched. A few days go by - still breeched. A week later - still breeched. I gave up on the quest and started a new cycle in Ace High. Breeched. BAH!

Scrap the whole bloody thing!


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Anonymous: kage
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 03:23 AM UTC  


I will add that as a new player (started at the end of December over the holiday) I have yet to see CC404 not under attack. Haven't been able to finish my museum quest, and it's been about 2 weeks. A bit frustrating. I actually went and did the DK instead (eventually). It got old fighting monsters at CC404 only to step back and see I was making no progress at all and had no help.

I like the idea of the random-cycling the breaches. Might make things pretty interesting, and I think knowing eventually the monsters "get bored and wander off because there's no one there to terrorize" would fit.

Maybe there could be a hole-in-the wall town/dive/foodstop between CC and Kit? Something so I don't waste all my stamina getting to CC only to find it breached and then spend the rest running like a chicken so I don't end up on the Failboat?


 
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Scorpio
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 03:38 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

I'd like to also thank you, Scorpio, for bringing this up in the forums. Onslaught really has been getting to be a problem, and it's also heartening to see that CMJ is a highly responsive developer when it comes to problems in his game.

Not that I already knew that about CMJ. Wink



Thanks, and I'll definitely agree on both of those points. I've played other online games where there was no real response from any of the admins to anything. That is a part of what makes this game so special, and why I brought it up rather than just saying to hell with it and going my own way.


 
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Scorpio
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 03:42 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Scorpio, in my localhost system I've tested a travel link from the jungle that's simple and seems to work fine. I may have missed seeing some reason it's actually more complicated than that, though.


Thanks Sessine, it would be awesome to see that implemented. I've not looked at the codebase, and probably couldn't fully understand it if I did, but it's bound to be large and rather complex, so even a minor change always has the possibility of interacting with something else negatively, so hopefully it doesn't have any problems.


 
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Raidur
 Monday, January 10 2011 @ 11:26 AM UTC  
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I think the options I'd suggest would be to increase player activity in those other outposts. For example, people congregate in NewHome because its where they started out and where all rookies start. IC is a central city and has the PSK and other handy shops. Kittania and PV have excellent steaks. What do the others have... NP has... zombies.. and brains... woo hoo. The food is crap for all races, so nobody fights there. Same for Squat, its got the skronky pot and the whorehouse, but they really arent good reasons to go there. Ace... has cake.. thats about it, no food, just the one a day cake. CC... has nothing. Perhaps install a cafe in Ace and CC, that way there is some way to refill stamina (One of the major reasons I don't hang about those two outposts), and the other thing thats always bothered me, perhaps make the outpost food better for that specific race. I always wondered why a zombie eating brains got the same effect as a human or kittymorph doing such.

Just my two cents at any rate.


 
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acheron
 Monday, January 10 2011 @ 10:00 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Maniak
b) Wall hitpoints should fall the amount of health the Titan has left once it reaches the outpost. Titans were originally made to warn a Breach was coming. Right now, Titans arrive at CC404 which already has a high threat level, and they're the final nail in the coffin. This is a double-breach mechanism. Walls don't do much for the outlying posts when a titan can spawn less than 4 clicks away. Make walls more useful, and close the bank at lower than 1m hitpoints, the bar at 500k. Anyone from Rookie to Veteran can build a wall, and it'll have a direct impact. It's more community driven than soloing a Titan


This makes perfect sense. If, somehow, a titan is left with 1hp and then arrives at an outpost, it's nearly dead so shouldn't be able to breach, imagine this happened to Newhome with its 8million+ hitpoints, a titan can punch 8million? why isn't it just smashing up the island?

Quote by: Raidur
perhaps make the outpost food better for that specific race. I always wondered why a zombie eating brains got the same effect as a human or kittymorph doing such.


blatantly Outposts would serve food suited to their own races, and this would certainly encourage races to stick to their outposts, protecting SH, AH, PV and CC404 better than they are now.


 
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jakell
 Tuesday, January 11 2011 @ 04:39 AM UTC  
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First off, thanks much to Beeps and Matthew; you folks are awesome, and I really appreciate the praise.

I voted to keep the Titans, kind of obvious, and the breaches with them, for selfish reasons. I have gotten very fond of traipsing around the beaches hunting the Titans down, and would very much like to bag my thousandth in the next month or so... but that is just my pride talking. As a higher level DKer, I really enjoy having both the challenge (and the money) of the Titans, and the easy experience found in the breach really makes my day. 1 day DKs are really fun, especially when racing the NewDay at the same time.

I had not actually known the Titans were a symptom of near-breaches; that is really cool!

I have a few contributions to make to the discussion, if you will forgive my inability to quote properly/at all, and any disconnectedness between my ideas:

Seeing monster text during the breach would be nice as Iriana stated earlier, (specially for the level 17 beasts since you do not even get any experience for killing them, even though they can kill you; gripe gripe gripe, still bitter sorry) but the fast-paced "before you have time to breathe" stays true to the spirit of the breach. I wonder if it might be a nice compromise such that so that some monsters were breach-specific; you would get some extra flavor text along the lines of " As you wipe the blood off your 'weapon', and across the street your eyes onto an Overseer. It raises it's massive cudgel and knocks aside two other contestants, before setting it's sights on you. The din of battle seems to fade away as it starts walking towards you. Then running." blah blah blah, and slightly more epic breach battle ensues, you get some great exp, and perhaps take a larger then normal chunk out of the monsters currently invading the outpost (100 monsters worth , up to 500 even?)? Shucks, you could have a few of these periodically throughout the breach, and taking them out could quickly bring the outposts back into line. They might even be something people could team up on, like the Titans... this would let folks like myself have a better chance at clearing out breaches; and would break up the tedium of being stuck with several level 1 beasts in a row would be nice. Just having one or two monsters with flavor text would indeed be nice.

It would be quite nice to be able to find out which outposts were breached. I have just about stopped visiting New Pittsburg when preparing to take down Titans, just so I do not waste any of my good attacking turns getting out of there. Perhaps in a clear city, there might be some city flavor text to the effect of "Refugees from Cyber City 404 make their way through the city gates, beaten and worn down" might make up a fairly good warning system. Perhaps this could be placed in the council offices instead; refugees asking for permits or the like... It seems like the council offices are under-utilized to me; I never check them, and have only accidentally gone in there every now and then.

And on the topic of the wall hit points; I agree with Maniak that the walls should fall roughly the amount of health that the Titan's have (bigger ones should do more damage), but perhaps the Titans should begin taking damage from the outpost as well, so that they do not just sit there all day long trashing the place. I picture the walls of the outpost being lined with catapults and those giant crossbow like things; which if the Titan made it to the outpost square, could do some damage to it, eventually taking it down and raining requisition of those fighting in the breach. Perhaps even if it was one square away they could lob a volley of arrows at it, but that is asking a bit much.

Referring back to Scorpio and Sessine; It woud be nice to be able to leave the jungle back to the world map, so as to not be dragged into the fight (I mean, come on, you are out in the jungle, not in some small Skronky Park inside the city!) but it would also be nice if while hunting the Drive, you could get returned to the jungle instead of the outpost. I do not much care for getting thrown into the heat of battle when I am looking to wrap up a nice day of battle.

Ultimately, if we did have to lose the Titans, and the breaches system, perhaps we could just have Titans randomly spawn around the edges, with the same "faster you kill them, the stronger they come back" attitude?

And if two were to somehow cross paths, they could ... spawn... a third? this would coincidentally make for a very disturbing situation should any two make it to the same outpost... the carnage would be nearly irreparable... but this is best left for a different topic.


 
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jakell
 Tuesday, January 11 2011 @ 07:28 AM UTC  
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Another way you might short out some breaches would be to factor in drive kills at those bases; I assume it would generate a large enough wave of improbability to perhaps remove a bunch of the beasts, even stopping the breach? Sadly I have no Idea how to implement any of these suggestions, but I hope the ideas may stimulate some worthwhile conversation and action!


 
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jakell
 Tuesday, January 11 2011 @ 08:38 AM UTC  
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Quote by: jakell


It would be quite nice to be able to find out which outposts were breached. I have just about stopped visiting New Pittsburg when preparing to take down Titans, just so I do not waste any of my good attacking turns getting out of there. Perhaps in a clear city, there might be some city flavor text to the effect of "Refugees from Cyber City 404 make their way through the city gates, beaten and worn down" might make up a fairly good warning system. Perhaps this could be placed in the council offices instead; refugees asking for permits or the like... It seems like the council offices are under-utilized to me; I never check them, and have only accidentally gone in there every now and then.



Either CMJ is ridiculously on top of things (he probably is) or I just need to check my council offices more then never. Awesome feature indeed!


 
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Scorpio
 Tuesday, January 11 2011 @ 09:51 AM UTC  
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CMJ has rolled out what appears to be a fix for this, and I said thanks in the MOTD discussion thread. I'll say it again here, thank you CMJ for responding to concerns of your player base.

In the couple of new days I played today there weren't any problems with closed outposts, I'll wait to see how these changes go, and any follow up changes that are made for a while. Hopefully this will resolve my concerns, after all extra req for fighting around an endangered outpost does no good if you loose it all to a breach, or the banks being closed.

Since it took Onslaught a little while to really, in my opinion, foul things up, we'll see if the fixes have a long term affect that I can live with.


 
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