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 Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD
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Unisol
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 06:47 PM UTC  
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Being a lowly Rookie, I feel ashamed of opening my mouth wider than it needed for breathing, but I cannot help noting one thing. I've browsed topics on this module, and I didn't see anyone put out something obvious to me: wall defences. Turrets, catapults, barf spitters, you name it. They exist in city descriptions, but are not programmed in. Having a couple of big guns in every city would cerainly make fighting assaults easier (though there may be a possibility for great imbalance if tuned badly - a sole 1st level hero fights off a week-long onslaught), so why not add them?


In Soviet Russia, Yuri controls YOU!!
 
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Epaphus
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 07:22 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Unisol

a sole 1st level hero fights off a week-long onslaught



And what's wrong with that? That's the plot of just about every fantasy and action movie, where a first-time hero jumps in and saves the day (girl/kingdom/whatever) where seasoned professionals couldn't.*
____

* Though, admit it, we're really spending our $10 ticket money to see him get smacked around some, first, and maybe stripped naked and duct-taped to a burning Pontiac in front of City Hall. Ah, but I suppose we never forget our senior proms, do we?


 
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Swede
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 07:46 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.

It would let people plan for their quests and parties and story-scenes, and enjoy other parts of the Island for the rest of the week.

Or, you know. Doesn't have to be once a week. It could be, for instance, the tenth and twenty-eighth days of each month. Or the full moon.



Full moon. I'm so for that. Mr. Green
Now I voted to scrap the module, because though as much as I like it and Titans, it seems to cause annoyance.
If it cannot be fixed I say scrap it. If it can please do so as I like it.


 
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Anonymous: Chef Albert Carter
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 08:01 PM UTC  



Hey there, long time player, first-time poster.

I originally voted to keep the Titans and the Breaches, but after playing through several breached cities and wasting a few Builders Brews I just got to say that the system needs a bit of tweaking.

I've read over most of the thread, and one major thing that sticks out for me is what Ebenezer said about there not being any good stamina-gaining places in CyberCity and AceHigh...with NO way to replenish stamina other than ration packs and energy drinks (which many Rookies and lower drive kill folks have little access to) it tends to not offer any incentive to stay. Though Jokers and Robots don't need to eat, I'm sure the residents there know that other beings that DO eat tend to visit, and it might do them well to offer cafes and restaurants. You may also want to entice folks who would otherwise stay away from these outposts with better stamina-producing foods...but maybe offer a side effect or two (I.E. the Red, Turquoise, and White Spring Waters in Kittania's Cool Springs Cafe). I can imagine a Robot Chef doing his best to prepare a fine dish and wind up with Spaghetti and Meat-Bolts....a great stamina boost, but lays heavily in one's stomach, causing them to lose Defense, or something like that.

As for the Titans "Eating" the walls to an outpost, there was an excellent idea mentioned there, too: Have them take down the outpost walls only a certain amount in relation to how healthy they are. It makes no sense and it very frustrating to have a Titan reach an outpost after a score or so Islanders been whacking away at it just to have it tear down 17 Million worth of Wall HP when the Titan is literally down to it's last 100,000 Hit Points! I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but what about Titans being only able to destroy a percentage of an outpost's walls directly related to how healthy they are when they reach it? Like 20% health left = 20% of the wall's HP lost when it reaches the outpost and goes all Godzilla on it?

As for the breaches themselves, I think this needs the most tweaking. I spent about five hours along with a small handful of others trying to put out a breach in New Pittsburgh....among the 3 to 5 of us, there were 2500 to 3000 monsters to dispose of...and the numbers always seem to grow, which made progress a total crawl. For people wanting to level up quickly, this can be a great tool to rocket them through the levels and make that 1-Day Drive Kill which seems to be so coveted. But for those who are simply trying to get their home back (my heart goes out to those who play the zombies and the robots especially) this can be a huge pain in the ass. Nonetheless, I think Breaches are great because it gets a chance for some of the veteran players to be heroes and it also provides a sense of accomplishment once the breach is FINALLY contained. Lately, that sense of accomplishment is severely lessened when the damned outpost gets breached again 15 minutes later!

I am proposing the following fix, to be added to the other pool of suggestions:

Have two "Levels" of 'breachdom':

COMPROMISED - This is a partial breach where some monsters are getting in and making business in the outpost a risky proposition. A Compromised outpost is treated like it was just another part of the world map...random monster encounters are possible and some businesses can stay open. Shoring up the defenses CAN fix a Compromised Outpost, but if that isn't done within say....1 to 3 NewDays, then it runs a serious risk of being overrun completely, which leads to....

BREACHED! - The outpost is completely incapacitated and the stampede of monsters must be mostly cleared out before it can get back to a Compromised State.

As for the number of monsters that need killing before an outpost is even partially accessible: 2500 to 3000 monsters running around in there is simply TOO MUCH. make it 250 to 500 or something when the breach first occurs.....enough so that one person is going to have a difficult time of it, but not totally impossible for a Well-Fed Islander (I.E. 250% to 300% Stamina) to at least put a respectable dent toward getting the outpost back on its feet.

And certainly reward teamwork with shorter Breach times...and like Titans and their very respectable requisition rewards, maybe offer something similar to those who contributed to plugging up a breach? Maybe have a pool of 100 cigarettes up for grabs to those who contribute to plugging the Breach, divvied up proportionally to the number of monsters a contestant killed in contribution to making an outpost (relatively) safe again?

In any case, I would establish a "Safe Time" for any outpost that just went through a breach: this would give people time to shore up the defenses and ensure the safety....make it two hours or even four hours: the guards at the outpost could keep things relatively safe....this might work out especially well with the Compromised suggestion, as it gives players that option to either fully save the outpost or just simply do what they wanted to in that town and then go off on their own way.

Another final idea is to have a "Defense Fund" option in each outpost. By contributing requisition, you pay for the outpost to hire more protectors and militia to keep the walls shored up and the jungles thinned out to manageable levels. This Fund is depleted steadily and must be kept 'fed' to have better defenses running. If the money runs out, it's back to the garden variety defenses and the risk for Compromises and Breaches go up accordingly.

**Takes a Breath**

Whew....didn't expect to be THAT long-winded, but I hope this helps.

I really DO enjoy battling titans and putting down breaches, and would LOVE to have them stay, but regardless of what happens, I don't think we can keep on going the way we are right now...because it stings to go through all of the effort and then have it all taken away just 15 minutes after.

Keep up the good work, and I'll see you around on the island!

--Scott Matthew
AKA Iron Chef Albert Carter


 
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Hairy Mary
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 09:29 PM UTC  
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Hi there Unisol and welcome to the Island. Please don't be shy about saying something, if we only get long standing players saying anything then we'll only really see things from long standing players points of view, its good to hear Rookies perspectives as well I feel. Also, if you're nervous of saying something daft, then have a look at some of the things I've said. You'd be hard pressed to say anything dafter than some of my ramblings.

There have been some quite interesting ideas for dealing with excessive onslaught, I particularly like the idea of titan's only taking down some of a walls HP depending on how many HP it has left, and the idea of only occasionally having onslaught active, on Epaphus's wedding anniversary or whenever.

I'd like to remention one that was suggested ages ago, some sort of recognition of who ever took out the most monsters in a breached outpost, a new medal maybe. Given the amount of players on the Island, these would be fairly rare items, and some people at least, would rather like them. That might encourage more people to go up to the outposts in the hope of getting said medal.

Having said that, I still think that these are possible fixes, by no means certain, so I'm still a bit ambivalent about what to do.


 
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Anonymous: Jannick
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 11:34 PM UTC  


Speaking as a player just barely out of Rookie status, I actually liked the breaches for the challenge and variety of the fights. As others have said, though, it's pretty clear that the system isn't working as intended.

What if each outpost had a militia that players could opt into, sort of along the lines of a clan? Maybe they could have periodic missions to thin out the jungle monster population and sound the "emergency action" alarm if a breach is imminent. It could be made attractive to players by allowing them to rise through the ranks with number of kills made in defense of their home turf and maybe conferring medals or special buffs or items at high ranks.

Not sure how much merit that has. There's an awful lot of overlap with the function of clans, but it seems like it would encourage the sort of cooperative play the module was going for originally.


 
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hajen
 Monday, January 10 2011 @ 03:06 AM UTC  
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"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon" - Napoleon

i voted for dropping onslaught, at least for the time being (so don't add this to the count to drop it).
i am seeing that the majority do like it it, at least in some fashion; so here's some thoughts on incentivizing the defending of a breached outpost:

offer medals -- defender of 'insert breached outpost name here (IBONH)', one for each outpost obviously and either an upgraded medal for higher levels of defense effort (i.e. level 1= 1k monsters killed, level 2 =10k monsters killed, level 3 = 100k monsters killed) or incorporate into the medal's graphics devices such as stars for each level or the "V" device for valor and "C" device for courage.
also possible: have an overarching system of medals
a medal of courage for having earned at least a level 1 'defender of IBONH' for each outpost.
a medal of valor for having earned at least a level 2 'defender of IBONH' for each outpost.
a medal of honor for having earned the highest level 'defender of IBONH' for each outpost.

if not medals, how about an entry into the hall of fame for those of us who don't care how charming we are Cool , but will be racing to one-up each other for the title of most lethal on the island.
and if you might think it would be weighted towards those that can afford the biggest guns, base it on stamina expended instead.

but this is all for later, i am intrigued by what the time/weather system will bring and want to see it soonest. Mr. Green


edit: i just realized this might/would incentivize allowing an outpost to fall first oops Laughing Out Loud
still something to think about though


"tis better to be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt"
 
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Hiraniva
 Monday, January 10 2011 @ 04:53 AM UTC  
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I'm actually posting on the Enquirer to discuss this. Woah.


My opinion is quite similar to some of those that have been shared already here, but since opinions are being asked for, I will put in my two cents. And I'm going to itemize them, so I am sorry in advance for the outline-like feel this post is going to have, but it is the only way I can operate and not get completely distracted.

One - I enjoy breaches, onslaughts, and Titans, from both a gameplay standpoint (Hey look, I can stand here and they will come to me) And a roleplay and story standpoint. (Ohno the monsters are coming! Ahhhh!). It's something else for the characters to discuss that is built into the game, that is canon, that is part of the world that CMJ seems to enjoy building for us so much. I would be really sad to see this part of it go away, since, in my mind, given the scenario the Island is set in, there would be sieges of outposts, and huge, creepy, massive Titans occasionally lumbering around.

Two - I am in agreement, however, that the system is not working as it is. Suggesting rewards of requisition for killing monsters in a breached outpost has been suggested, and I think this would be one solution that might help. I also find the suggestion that breaches/onslaughts happen at scheduled times, that we are all aware of, to be interesting. Something to consider!

Three - Ebenezer mentioned food being something that draws people to Outposts, and thus they are more reinforced, defended, and people are just there more. Even if it is not food, the reason people aren't in the outposts is because there isn't anything drawing them there. For example, I'm pretty sure I haven't stepped foot in New Pittsburgh since my Zombie run nine months ago because I didn't have a reason to. Why waste stamina to trek all the way out to zombie-ville when there isn't a reason to? And no, the walls being breached is not a reason to go there, it's a reason to avoid it!

Four - My conclusion. I would be upset to see these aspects of the game disappear - enough that I really want to say to keep them, regardless of the mild annoyance it seems to be causing. However, this annoyance of late seems to be building exponentially, so, if the choice was one or the other, I'm forced to say to get rid of it. Fortunately, I don't think this is a case of one, or the other... If there's something that draws people to the outposts, they will be much less likely to fall.

Five - My disclaimer? I don't really have specific suggestions as to what to add to the other outposts to bring people in... So maybe this post wasn't very helpful at all.


 
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Harris
 Monday, January 10 2011 @ 08:06 AM UTC  
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I kind of suck at Titan killing and breach-clearing. Onslaughts-in-progress? Well, I'm not too proud sally forth and hunt down the Easy fights until the onslaught is beaten back.

That being said, I love this dynamic anyway. Helps the world feel more alive, you see. More like a *living* place. Please keep it.
Does something need to be done differently? Yes.

(looks at the pubs, and their offensive and defensive goodies they grant)

It may be as simple as the rest of the pubs being added.
"Oh, we can defend Squat Hole and CyberCity with local buffs now, too?"
"Yup."
"WELL LET'S FREAKIN' GO."

Perhaps an "ATM" option as has been mentioned, only not *exactly* as suggested...
Picture an outpost being breached, and having fought through the prerequisite number of monsters to get the "what do you do?" menu. Along with reinforce defenses, fight monsters, count monsters, and run, add in "go to ATM".
Have our bank funds available during a breach (AND during an attack, after the bank closes), for a requsition fee, just like real world ATMs. But have these ATMs ONLY become usable after the bank has closed.
One of the most common complaints I've heard is "I can't buy weapons/grenades during an onslaught, because I can't get to the bank!"
Ta-dah!!

Or...have Onslaughts only on Thursdays.

I never could get the hang of Thursdays...


"Ain't nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile." -The Grateful Dead
 
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Tahvohck
 Monday, January 10 2011 @ 04:28 PM UTC  
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Personally, I'd hate to see onslaughts leave. While I may not participate in them much, it's mostly because I have little reason to be in those towns, as people before me have mentioned, but they add a new level to the story that would just feel...Iunno, wrong if it wasn't there. On the other hand, it still feels like it's missing something. The monsters are attacking, but why? So they can just stand around in a town and get beat to death, instead of a Jungle, where they have a fighting advantage? What I'd really like to see is a level below BREACHED!: FALLEN! Once an outpost has been breached for a certain amount of time, or so many times in one period, the monsters take over and the positions are reversed: all of the citizens get kicked out of the town, maybe even setting up a new one somewhere else, and now it's the contestants who are tearing down the walls, trying to get in. Maybe even have a way to sneak in with a and roleplay covert ops, with a chance of the whole group getting caught and kicked out/imprisoned/subduing the guards.

However, while the Outpost is still under civilian control, I'd also like to see some of the other options people have mentioned: wall defenses, stronger or weaker depending on the city; a COMPROMISED state; medals; Titans only doing damage based on their health--though that should only kick in when they're under 75% or so, since they could fight just the same with minor damage, reasonably--etc.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, January 11 2011 @ 03:42 AM UTC  
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Okay, the results are in, and it looks like I'm gonna end up spending some more time on this.

First thing, to stick a plaster over the stump of the severed arm, I'm going to implement adaptive Req rewards, along with an indicator of monster activity in the Council offices. Fighting in Outposts under high threat levels will result in up to twice as much Req; fighting in Outposts that really shouldn't have any bloody monsters left for you to fight will result in as little as 0.75 of usual Req.

(and yes, I did briefly consider allowing Jungles to empty - it'd make the most canonical sense, but it's a bit drastic for Season Two)


 
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Mack
 Tuesday, January 11 2011 @ 05:43 AM UTC  
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This gets my full approval as a quick, and hopefully effective, temporary fix. If it proves effective enough, it may be good to keep it around in one form or another for good. I look forward to seeing what you do to fix the situation, assuming this moves it in the right direction.


You can toast them, but it's dark magic. - MotPax on hotdog buns.
 
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Matthew
 Tuesday, January 11 2011 @ 05:54 AM UTC  
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This strikes me as fairly fantastic, as well. I know I, for one, will be using this every game day (in which I fight, at least) to see where I'm most needed. The extra req is a very nice incentive.

edit: And the lowered req for fighting in outposts under no threat is also nice. Though... if I may suggest one thing? Could req-gains everywhere be normalized (1x), if and only if all the outposts are "Peaceful Days" across the board? Not being able to go anywhere without incurring reduced req rewards would be... really, really annoying, actually.

edit edit: And maybe newer players shouldn't be subject to reduced req rewards until around the 5th DK or so. After all, as a rookie, leaving NewHome is a tall order!


 
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Mack
 Tuesday, January 11 2011 @ 06:39 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew



And maybe newer players shouldn't be subject to reduced req rewards until around the 5th DK or so. After all, as a rookie, leaving NewHome is a tall order!



Another easy solution would be to make Newhome always put out at 1x req rates. It's not like it would ever come under a real threat, so long as titans were kept down.


You can toast them, but it's dark magic. - MotPax on hotdog buns.
 
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Scorpio
 Tuesday, January 11 2011 @ 09:46 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Okay, the results are in, and it looks like I'm gonna end up spending some more time on this.

First thing, to stick a plaster over the stump of the severed arm, I'm going to implement adaptive Req rewards, along with an indicator of monster activity in the Council offices. Fighting in Outposts under high threat levels will result in up to twice as much Req; fighting in Outposts that really shouldn't have any bloody monsters left for you to fight will result in as little as 0.75 of usual Req.

(and yes, I did briefly consider allowing Jungles to empty - it'd make the most canonical sense, but it's a bit drastic for Season Two)



OK, based on the couple of new days I played, this seems to be working. New Pitts was actually up and running. So, I'm willing to give it some time to see how this does, and any other changes that are made down the road.

In any event, thank you very much for listening and doing something to fix what I viewed as a deal breaker of a problem.

The extra req for helping to keep breaches from happening will also come in quite handy, provided it doesn't get back to the point where outposts are down all the time and the req is a wash because it gets stripped from you when you are unable to bank it with a downed outpost, or one down enough that the banks stay closed.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, January 12 2011 @ 04:22 PM UTC  
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This sounds good for preventing a breach, but are there req rewards when fighting during a breach? Because if it's not set up that way, players will still not want to participate fighting in a town overrun with 3000 monsters.

Edit: I see the MOTD says that there aren't increased rewards for breaches themselves. I wonder what CMJ's going to put for there, because as I said, a city that falls has no more incentive.


 
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Beeps
 Wednesday, January 12 2011 @ 09:02 PM UTC  
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The other issue with this is that the system still doesn't make it any more enticing for a lot of players to run themselves out to another outpost. I know that, currently, AceHigh needs some help. I have good fighting stats, but not good travelling stats. Because I'm in Kittania, the payouts are reduced, and buying a weapon is currently still a priority over buying a one-shot to get out there.
Both Jokers and Midgets tend to encourage staying in one place - Midget because travel costs are so high, and Joker because if you spend a day's stamina getting out there, there's no telling if you'll be suited to fight once you're there. The last time I tried to help out AceHigh, I burned through all 12 of my chronospheres, and got one day that was good for fighting - And barely made a dent in the monster population. Jokers make for very in-the-moment daily planning, which is not good for anything that requires prolonged attention.


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Count Sessine
 Wednesday, January 12 2011 @ 09:23 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

The other issue with this is that the system still doesn't make it any more enticing for a lot of players to run themselves out to another outpost. I know that, currently, AceHigh needs some help. I have good fighting stats, but not good travelling stats. Because I'm in Kittania, the payouts are reduced, and buying a weapon is currently still a priority over buying a one-shot to get out there.
Both Jokers and Midgets tend to encourage staying in one place - Midget because travel costs are so high, and Joker because if you spend a day's stamina getting out there, there's no telling if you'll be suited to fight once you're there. The last time I tried to help out AceHigh, I burned through all 12 of my chronospheres, and got one day that was good for fighting - And barely made a dent in the monster population. Jokers make for very in-the-moment daily planning, which is not good for anything that requires prolonged attention.

In-the-moment? Yes, that is so. Each day a new challenge.... It's what makes Jokers the most interesting race to play, but you're right, they're not exactly dependable!

A few rail passes in the wallet can help cope with transportation difficulties, though.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Wednesday, January 12 2011 @ 10:05 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: Beeps

The other issue with this is that the system still doesn't make it any more enticing for a lot of players to run themselves out to another outpost. I know that, currently, AceHigh needs some help. I have good fighting stats, but not good travelling stats. Because I'm in Kittania, the payouts are reduced, and buying a weapon is currently still a priority over buying a one-shot to get out there.
Both Jokers and Midgets tend to encourage staying in one place - Midget because travel costs are so high, and Joker because if you spend a day's stamina getting out there, there's no telling if you'll be suited to fight once you're there. The last time I tried to help out AceHigh, I burned through all 12 of my chronospheres, and got one day that was good for fighting - And barely made a dent in the monster population. Jokers make for very in-the-moment daily planning, which is not good for anything that requires prolonged attention.

In-the-moment? Yes, that is so. Each day a new challenge.... It's what makes Jokers the most interesting race to play, but you're right, they're not exactly dependable!

A few rail passes in the wallet can help cope with transportation difficulties, though.



that's true, but I'm desperately saving cards right now because I'm absolutely terrified of what your new system you've mentioned will involve.


 
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Anonymous: Doc
 Wednesday, January 12 2011 @ 11:10 PM UTC  


Thought it's a bit late, what if you combined Epaphus' Invastion Day and Maniak's Isle of Monsters? Before the set day, people could go to the monster island and try to thin the herds that would otherwise head out to the outposts. Also, you could have variable monster levels to help the DK centurions get over the hump.


 
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