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 Abandoned Dwellings, third time lucky!
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dizzyizzy
 Wednesday, April 13 2011 @ 10:11 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew

Quote by: dizzyizzy

I'd like to point out that useful doesn't have to mean dozens of beds


If you mean that towards me, then yes, I didn't mean to imply that. There's lots of beautiful dwellings with no sleeping spots that I consider very worthwhile, it's just that "You see a single-room dwelling belonging to Knight Errant Articblaze" and "You're standing in a small, undecorated room." isn't so much.


I meant it kinda towards you, kinda in general, actually. Just trying to reinforce the fact that Acehigh's square is absolutely nothing but dead space.


 
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Ashtu
 Wednesday, April 13 2011 @ 10:28 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Wolfgang

... that i have NO idea what Borked means...

In this context, Wolfgang, it is referring to The Dwellings Cataclysm of 2010. Those of us who lived through it tend to block it from our memories.....


Thank you.
 
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Buddleia
 Wednesday, April 13 2011 @ 11:45 PM UTC  
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I am going over the whole map, very carefully, noting how developed everywhere is, and I'll be reporting to Sessine. Please feel free to help me update the Land Registry (hotlink tinyurl.com/ii-land-reg); add and edit places I've not yet got to, and add a note if you have suggestions or comments about a particular place:
- either with a right-click and Add Comment on the "Map" tab
- or in the Notes column in the "List" tab
- or in the "Abandoned and Unloved" tab.

For now, I'll be staying out of the discussion on when plots should be removed or reassigned - except to say that I think it should be a case-by-case basis, rather than a simple rule. Different locations also need different considerations, town squares particularly. There is a lot to think about. For now, I'm just gathering data.


Improbable Reference Links - goo.gl/MRBnb -------------- Land Registry (map of Places) ---- goo.gl/bpkRR
 
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Count Sessine
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 12:21 AM UTC  
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WARNING (Now downsized!)

When a dwelling has just been deleted, for (two or three minutes) a few seconds afterwards, until (the cache catches up) I, uh, follow CMJ's advice below, an 'Enter ' link appears where the dwelling used to be. STILL DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK! It will be a particularly nasty badnav. Just wait a few minutes, wander away, come back later... the link will be gone.

If you ignore this advice -- well, holler for help. I can haul you out, and so can Z.

I am going to (wait to do more deletions until late-late when as few people are on as possible, but there's never a time when there's no-one) go ahead now with the rest of the deletions!


 
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Matthew
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 01:01 AM UTC  
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Not like... not like anyone has done that yet, or anything.

*COUGH*


 
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CavemanJoe
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 02:29 AM UTC  
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Sessine - if you run empty_datacache(); afterwards, then that'll... well, it'll do what it says on the tin. Smile


 
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Count Sessine
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 02:40 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Sessine - if you run empty_datacache(); afterwards, then that'll... well, it'll do what it says on the tin. Smile

Thank you, that'll help.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 03:33 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

stuff



So you'd rather have ORD belonging to Errant Knight Articblaze sit on top of Ace High and do nothing forever? I looked him up just now; he was last on 373 days ago. He's obviously quit the game a long time ago, and he's just got a permanent account. So, yes, the player still exists, but I think the circumstances warrant taking away the plot and maybe refunding the cigs, though I doubt he'd ever come back to even use them. As for the ORD on top of Cyber City, the owner hasn't logged in for 54 days. I think it's safe to say that both plots have been long since abandoned.

I'd rather take the side of the community's rights to use that plot for something actually worthwhile than the individual's rights to being selfish when the investment of cigs probably doesn't even matter to them anymore anyway. Were I in the decision-making chair, I'd take the plot away even if those two players in question were still playing, simply because of where it is and the fact that nothing has been done with them for forever and ever. Maybe that's why I'm not in that chair, admittedly, but I still strongly say that simply leaving those plots there to fester is the Wrong Move.



Symar just came back to the game after a long stretch of time away from the game. In fact, Symar was rather angry when finding out that the character was deleted. All the things purchased, gone. It had a happy ending with Z restoring the character, luckily.

But this right here is a pretty good example of why we shouldn't just say, "Oh, you've been gone X amount of time, that's a really long amount of time, we're going to take away something your effort went towards because we don't think you're coming back." Sure, a year and two weeks sounds long enough to you as to believe that Articblaze is never coming back to the game. But he earned a permanent account, and maybe that's why he felt it safe to leave the game for a time and return once his addictive gaming habits or internet connection or crime-operation-running business is solved/fixed/foiled.

I used to play an online browser text-based MMO called Aegis about 5 years ago (and I'm pretty positive it's still running now). I played it for about 2.5-3 years, actually. I eventually left because the new developers made a lot of game decisions I disagreed with, but while I was there, I was a fairly well-known community member. The inactive account deletion period was very low, like 2 weeks, unless you donated 20 euros and got a 1-year inactivity buffer. At one point during the time of the new developers, I gave up my position as king to another province in the kingdom and let my account just sit in the kingdom, contributing to the kingdom's score and the new king's gold tribute, until I felt like playing again. I ended up not playing for about 10 months. I returned to find that while most of the other players in my kingdom had left, my account still existed with barely any loss, still in my kingdom, and I could explore the game again and try to re-interest myself. (Though I didn't end up staying, the game had changed for the worse.)

10 months is also a lot of time. I wouldn't want you to have deleted my account. A 1-year account is a 1-year account. A permanent account is a permanent account. I don't appreciate a game administration that reneges on those kinds of promises.


 
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Matthew
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 04:14 AM UTC  
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That is such a tiny demographic it's barely worth considering, honestly.

Remember, though, that I said that the owners should be contacted about it. If they say "yes, I'm coming back some time," then I don't see why they shouldn't keep the plot, but a negative (or lack of an) answer should be seen as an o-okay to get rid of it. I'm also not saying the characters should be deleted, just the plot, and if they get the cigs refunded and come back, it's only completely and utterly fair that they'll need to put their plot somewhere else. They're the ones who bought it and then did absolutely nothing with it, so why should everyone else be inconvenienced by a selfish decision like that?


 
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Count Sessine
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 05:27 AM UTC  
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Eek! Can we have a quieter tone in here, folks? I'm trying to get some work done.

Here is my to-do list, in order of priority:
1. Get rid of undeveloped ownerless dwellings, the ones that everyone has already agreed are just cluttering the landscape to no purpose whatsoever. I'm still working on this one.

2. Attend to the backlog of reasonable ownership transfer requests. I've done a few already, and am open to do more. Ask me, we'll talk.

3. Try to recover at least some of the borked places. As I said, no promises about success. But trying will take me a while.

Until all of that's done, I am not even going to think about deleting dwellings that belong to someone with an active account. (Unless, of course, they ask me to.)


 
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Matthew
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 05:50 AM UTC  
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Goodness! I don't mean to shout or otherwise sound harsh, and I apologize if I came off that way.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 07:05 AM UTC  
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Sessine, do transfers of ownership also include requests for Keys to these orphaned dwellings so that one could contribute bedding in some of the housing?

Matthew, contact is definitely something I agree with. But it should be an opt-in system and not an opt-out system. If you think Articblaze isn't coming back and his dwelling is worth demolishing, it should honestly be you who emails him (or requests a mod to message him) and ask him if he intends on playing again. And then ask if he minds his dwelling being demolished to free up the limited real estate on the island. And if he says, "Sure, I'm not coming back, go ahead and demolish it," only then is there the authority to take it down, so you'd then forward the message to a mod, they'll verify the email address for legitimacy, and things can proceed.

Also back to Sessine, I thought Matt and I were having a debate kind of tone, not an argument kind. I'm just in a more blunt kind of writing mood, I suppose that contributed to the interpretation of tone. Anyhoose, I'm off for the night, so good luck with the work, and thanks for doing all this. Smile


 
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Count Sessine
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 07:28 AM UTC  
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When I transfer a dwelling's ownership, it then belongs to the new owner as completely as it did to the original builder, with all the privileges of ownership including adding beds or cutting keys. Indeed, the only record of who the original owner ever was, lies in the careful log entry that I make.

(If you're asking, am I in the business of handing out keys... the answer is no.)


 
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Hairy Mary
 Thursday, April 14 2011 @ 09:59 AM UTC  
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Forgive my naivety, but with borked dwellings, if the text has to be reprocessed by hand anyway, isn't it just a case of nuking the borked dwelling and then putting up a new stake on the same spot?

If it's the rebuilding that's a problem, then I'll reiterate my earlier statement, if the text for the Abandoned Waystation exists, then I'll happily do the job of rebuilding it myself. The same goes for at least one other borked dwelling.


 
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Anna Dewhurst
 Friday, April 15 2011 @ 04:44 AM UTC  
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Okay! So I am... largely with Matthew on this, I think, and I disagree with Dizzy on the "dead space" bit, BUT.

What if we had "chance plots"? Those who had been gone over... 90 days, say, would get their plots deleted, and that space would be open for others to take advantage of. These plots would cost slightly fewer cigarettes (80?), because...

the previous owners of that space would be capable of restoring their plots. There could be a button, or it could be done by petition, what-have-you, really, and an automatic message would be sent to the missing character's inbox upon their return (detailing what happened). The buyer of the "chance plot" would not have to rebuild their dwelling, but they would have to relocate it.

Fair?


 
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Matthew
 Friday, April 15 2011 @ 04:57 AM UTC  
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The problem with that is that there are plenty of dwellings with owners that no longer exist that are quite worth keeping around. I think Thistlewhite Manor is one of them? I could totally be wrong there, I just think it's something I heard once. Maybe I'm thinking of some other place.

Maybe it could be petitioned for a dwelling to be flagged immune to that kind of thing, and the mods could sort it by a case-by-case basis. I dunno. The real problem is all the EPs and ORD clogging up space, not necessarily dwellings without owners.

edit: so I have been informed that I am indeed incorrect. Whoops! It probably was a different place I was thinking of. Still, I'm sure there's lots of examples.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Matthew, contact is definitely something I agree with. But it should be an opt-in system and not an opt-out system.



Maybe I'm just harsher in my philosophy, here, but I still don't see an opt-out as unfair, at least as far as long-standing ORDs/EPs are concerned. I'm not about to suggest that we tear down the Bingo Hall because Bernard hasn't been around for a while (I actually dunno if he has or not, this is just an example), but dwellings that have been negatively effecting other players for so long should be looked at in a much colder light.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

If you think Articblaze isn't coming back and his dwelling is worth demolishing, it should honestly be you who emails him (or requests a mod to message him)



I do, and that's kind of what I'm advocating, yes.


 
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Count Sessine
 Friday, April 15 2011 @ 05:02 AM UTC  
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Progress report: I'm glad to say that I have discovered that I can unBORK buildings. It's slow, but doable. First venture was the Trapdoor in AceHigh, then Xith's Weather Station. Getting bolder, I next restored The Root Palace (with three rooms!) -- and I am about to tackle The Abandoned Waystation. If you see that 'You cannot enter...' a particular broken building, that probably means I'm working on it.

Restored buildings come without sleep slots. Owners can queue up room expansion build jobs, or I can do it -- or, if appropriate, I may hand ownerless places over to new owners who can do it... and lots of people have said they want to help.

Buddleia has been a tremendous help -- she's given me a list of borked buildings, and a whole lot of good advice. Thank you, Budd!

Oh... and about fifty empty plots and ORDs have already been removed.


 
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Makiwa
 Friday, April 15 2011 @ 06:16 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Progress report: I'm glad to say that I have discovered that I can unBORK buildings. It's slow, but doable. First venture was the Trapdoor in AceHigh, then Xith's Weather Station. Getting bolder, I next restored The Root Palace (with three rooms!) -- and I am about to tackle The Abandoned Waystation. If you see that 'You cannot enter...' a particular broken building, that probably means I'm working on it.

Restored buildings come without sleep slots. Owners can queue up room expansion build jobs, or I can do it -- or, if appropriate, I may hand ownerless places over to new owners who can do it... and lots of people have said they want to help.

Buddleia has been a tremendous help -- she's given me a list of borked buildings, and a whole lot of good advice. Thank you, Budd!

Oh... and about fifty empty plots and ORDs have already been removed.



Way to go Sessine and Buddleia!

*pushes piece of paper across with name on it as someone who wants to help*


It's not an optical illusion. It just looks like one.
 
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Awesome Fred
 Saturday, April 16 2011 @ 09:07 AM UTC  
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50 is a goddamn lot. Awesome job, Sessine. Big Grin


 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, April 17 2011 @ 09:42 PM UTC  
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So.

The Abandoned Waystation is now open. (21,19)

...if you want to go and take a look.


 
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