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 Why Kittania over New Pitts?
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Awesome Fred
 Saturday, October 08 2011 @ 09:45 PM UTC  
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I actually think it would be fine if Zombies started hungry and emaciated every day. I admit I don't remember the numbers in order to do the calculations, but I believe the opportunity to eat loads of food every day outweighs the gain from good health and body figure added to the reduced amount of food you can eat in the day.

By making Zombies hungry and thin at the start of every day, the fact that BRAAAAAAAINS is full of fattening BRAAAAINS is a nonissue to Zombies, because all they want is more food for stamina today. Fat factor becomes irrelevant to them, only Stamina per point of Satiation. Which I think is still fairly poor at BRAAAAAAAINS. As Omega and Maniak taught me, 3 Mutant Steaks pales in comparison to 10 Noodly Noodles and 1 Mutant Steak.

It also means that Zombies would love devouring Crap Meat a lot more.


 
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Matthew
 Tuesday, October 11 2011 @ 05:13 PM UTC  
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I think that's a pretty great idea, but it'd probably need to be balanced by being only able to eat from monsters and New Pittsburgh (braaaaaaaaiiiiins and etc, after all). Being able to down three mutant steaks (or whatever) every single day would make for very quick DKs indeed. It would certainly make Zombie a much more attractive choice than it is right now, at least to me. For me, I almost always go Midget or Joker and the other races are just for a goof every now and then.

Makes a lot of sense, too. I'd imagine it's hard for dead bodies to metabolize food as fat. It also adds an interesting roleplay element of being Always Desperately Hungry to the race as a whole, which is fun.


 
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tehdave
 Tuesday, October 11 2011 @ 06:25 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Makiwa

If you want to see Kitts raised and the 100m walls devastated have a once in a while motherfather of a Titan than cannot be destroyed until after it's wiped out an outpost. Eek!



I had an idea about a Grand Titan that would take a massive group effort to down, but I can't remember where it is in the forums right now. Maybe if the Grand Titan could be implemented, to have it focus on, say, Kittania or Pleasantville, instead of targeting a random outpost.


As far as the Zombies Are Always Hungry thing, that could actually be really good, and promote Zombies to eat whatever they want with no ill effects, so they could focus on just the highest Bite/Stam food instead of worrying about it being lean or fattening. I'd say there shouldn't be a penalty for them being malnourished, as that'd be their default state. (on Newday: You feel extremely malnourished. You're getting used to it though, and don't lose stamina for it.)


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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Feynt
 Tuesday, October 11 2011 @ 06:49 PM UTC  
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Eating "whatever they want" makes a lot of sense, I don't think I've seen zombies portrayed as picky eaters (though obviously eating a malfunctioning rice maker wouldn't be great on the stamina part).

As for titans, I've noticed a lot more titans around this weekend than the past few weeks combined. There were like, 3 heading for the hole and two heading for Kitt on Sunday. At least that I encountered. There were also at least 4 heading for CC404 over the course of the weekend. Maybe CMJ Is stepping up the titans a bit to start breaching those cities?


 
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tehdave
 Tuesday, October 11 2011 @ 07:52 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Feynt

Eating "whatever they want" makes a lot of sense, I don't think I've seen zombies portrayed as picky eaters (though obviously eating a malfunctioning rice maker wouldn't be great on the stamina part).

As for titans, I've noticed a lot more titans around this weekend than the past few weeks combined. There were like, 3 heading for the hole and two heading for Kitt on Sunday. At least that I encountered. There were also at least 4 heading for CC404 over the course of the weekend. Maybe CMJ Is stepping up the titans a bit to start breaching those cities?



The titans actually spawn based on an algorithm, IIRC. It's more based on how quickly the last titans got killed. Though obviously CMJ could manually spawn some. The worst I've ever seen is where you couldn't go 2 squares without tripping over 5 titans with over 10 million HP each...the Watcher Herself had to come in to clean up...


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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Feynt
 Tuesday, October 11 2011 @ 09:40 PM UTC  
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Quote by: tehdave

The worst I've ever seen is where you couldn't go 2 squares without tripping over 5 titans with over 10 million HP each...the Watcher Herself had to come in to clean up...


>.>
<.<

lawl?

On the topic of things zombies can eat, that'd be one hell of a feast for one. I can only imagine the stamina gain possible, since you can eat whatever you want it seems when you aren't stuffed.

Borrowing ideas from another browser game involving zombies, they gain the ability to bite and claw things more effectively, as well as effectively poisoning their target when they chomp them good (rotting flesh tends to have this issue with diseases and stuff). Maybe as a zombie move they can also feast on their monster prey, gaining a little stamina in combat (if they aren't full) and doing a short damage over time effect for their regular attack damage (so like 12 damage split over 3 rounds, 4 damage each)?


 
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Awesome Fred
 Tuesday, October 11 2011 @ 11:47 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew

I think that's a pretty great idea, but it'd probably need to be balanced by being only able to eat from monsters and New Pittsburgh (braaaaaaaaiiiiins and etc, after all). Being able to down three mutant steaks (or whatever) every single day would make for very quick DKs indeed. It would certainly make Zombie a much more attractive choice than it is right now, at least to me. For me, I almost always go Midget or Joker and the other races are just for a goof every now and then.

Makes a lot of sense, too. I'd imagine it's hard for dead bodies to metabolize food as fat. It also adds an interesting roleplay element of being Always Desperately Hungry to the race as a whole, which is fun.



I actually think that it would be balanced enough without any modifications. Food does have an extra balancing factor that we don't mention most of the time when we complain about various things: req cost. Eating 3 steaks each day costs 2250 per day. Eating the 10(?) Noodly Noodles + Steak combo is something just under 4000 req per day. To fill up on the last item at BRAAAAAAINS is 1500 req per day (and it is nothing compared to the other two amounts of stamina). At the lower levels, it is nigh unsustainable to eat your fill every day with restaurant food. At the higher levels, it's still quite the costliest situation any race could possibly be in. Therefore, people will indeed have weigh that choice against eating carcasses, which give you jack squat for stamina in comparison (you can't even get over 250% stamina before you fill up on Carcass Food no matter how many Beginning Of Day bonuses you get from equipment, extended play, and WCG. I'm pretty sure about that.) Yes, there will definitely be people (probably including me) that will find a way to sustain this high standard of dining because req, like cigs, is actually quite easy to acquire if you take advantage of certain game features, but I think on an overall level it isn't an issue far out-of-hand compared to other balance issues.

People talk about how they can easily get 1-day DKs using Midgets and people one-shot Titans with good Joker days. Is it really out of the question for Zombies to be a stamina-rich playstyle? I'd even turn the 10% bonus to attack into 10% penalty for that, so that Zombie as a fighter becomes a "kill with a thousand cuts", using some of that extra stamina in order to take down the same amount of opponents. It would also make the race a lot more attractive for builders.

Quote by: tehdave

I had an idea about a Grand Titan that would take a massive group effort to down, but I can't remember where it is in the forums right now. Maybe if the Grand Titan could be implemented, to have it focus on, say, Kittania or Pleasantville, instead of targeting a random outpost.


As far as the Zombies Are Always Hungry thing, that could actually be really good, and promote Zombies to eat whatever they want with no ill effects, so they could focus on just the highest Bite/Stam food instead of worrying about it being lean or fattening. I'd say there shouldn't be a penalty for them being malnourished, as that'd be their default state. (on Newday: You feel extremely malnourished. You're getting used to it though, and don't lose stamina for it.)



Well, I don't see why the penalty should go away. As Matt said, the stamina bonus from restaurant food is really high, but I was saying that it's just the right amount of high. The reason why I'm strattling between you two is because my suggestion is a little more elegant in comparison. You only have to modify the race so that on each New Day event, you don't check for the character's fullness, fatness, and nutrition variables, and simply set them all to zero. (I haven't checked the github, but I imagine it should be almost this easy?)

As for the Grand Titan, I'm not sold on that. Titans are currently produced organically, given health values in response to the speed that the players to defeat them. The way this game's stats are set up (which is awful, awful, awful), players who fight Titans often defeat them single-handedly. This was probably not intended when implemented, considering that multiple people can fight a Titan and, you know, they have millions of hit points. Creating a Grand Titan solely to take down Kittania or Pleasantville is a poor use of development time, since its task is to equalize their wall strengths to that of the others--if it succeeds, well, why couldn't we have just manually reset it? If it fails, then no problem has been solved other than Jakell or Maniak or you or Omega or one of the other regular Titan killers making a notch on your Titanbane Belt where it had felt a little plain before.


Quote by: Feynt

Borrowing ideas from another browser game involving zombies, they gain the ability to bite and claw things more effectively, as well as effectively poisoning their target when they chomp them good (rotting flesh tends to have this issue with diseases and stuff). Maybe as a zombie move they can also feast on their monster prey, gaining a little stamina in combat (if they aren't full) and doing a short damage over time effect for their regular attack damage (so like 12 damage split over 3 rounds, 4 damage each)?



If this game had flavor like that with its races, sure. But the closest any race gets to having their own ability is Midget, which is simply "Midget Rage", a standalone Adrenaline Vial from the Chemical Pack, simply raising the damage output of the character for a few turns. Creating this ability for the purpose of populating New Pittsburgh so that it falls less from Onslaught is a very roundabout solution that probably creates more issues than it fixes.


 
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Feynt
 Wednesday, October 12 2011 @ 12:39 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred
If this game had flavor like that with its races, sure. But the closest any race gets to having their own ability is Midget, which is simply "Midget Rage", a standalone Adrenaline Vial from the Chemical Pack, simply raising the damage output of the character for a few turns. Creating this ability for the purpose of populating New Pittsburgh so that it falls less from Onslaught is a very roundabout solution that probably creates more issues than it fixes.[/p]

Robots have overclocking, don't they? And then Jokers have their random greatness/suckiness per day. Mutants also gain an extra attack abilities (though I haven't actually played one, nor even unlocked them). So while a zombie "eat their face" attack might be a bit much it doesn't seem like it would be playing favourites.

I concede though that the improvement of zombies as a whole (with the exception of being able to eat anything without remorse as recently detailed) isn't as likely to solve the issue of Kittania vs. New Pittsburgh as popular hangout locations.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, October 12 2011 @ 01:19 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Feynt



Robots have overclocking, don't they? And then Jokers have their random greatness/suckiness per day. Mutants also gain an extra attack abilities (though I haven't actually played one, nor even unlocked them). So while a zombie "eat their face" attack might be a bit much it doesn't seem like it would be playing favourites.

I concede though that the improvement of zombies as a whole (with the exception of being able to eat anything without remorse as recently detailed) isn't as likely to solve the issue of Kittania vs. New Pittsburgh as popular hangout locations.



Overclocking is not a combat ability--when not in a fight, you can enter a page that lets you raise your attack, defense, or health regeneration to whatever you prefer. The catch is the highly-punishing Overheating bar, which fills up faster and faster the more you've Overclocked. But don't think you'll easily walk the fine line, as even the slightest bit of extra heat will make you randomly lose three quarters of your max health whenever the Random Number God wants to have its way with you.

Joker greatness/suckiness is not a combat ability. Each day, the Joker's attack and defense values have bonuses/penalties ranging from +90% to -90%, as do its stamina costs. Also, some days it will have health regeneration, and on other days it will have health degeneration.

Mutants do not gain combat abilities. I imagine you're talking about Insults, which all races can perform if they learn the skills from Cuthbert at Pleasantville. Mutants do get a large stamina cost discount for using Insults, but they are not unique to the race.

Combat abilities are generally in the form of whatever your Implant lets you do--use your head-mounted Laser, activate your Tesla Coil, fight superhumanly, activate a temporary regen/attack buff/defense buff, etc. Midgets are the only race that have their own combat ability.


 
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Feynt
 Wednesday, October 12 2011 @ 01:27 AM UTC  
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Well, overclocking is an ability specifically for combat, if not in combat. Just sayin'


 
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IsaacW
 Thursday, October 13 2011 @ 08:02 AM UTC  
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I personally chose Kittymorphs over Zombies based on what I'd heard about the racial buffs/debuffs.


 
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