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Cherriki Ten
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 04:02 PM UTC (Read 6802 times)  
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Okay, this request comes because I was in the Common Grounds and saw something I haven't seen in a long time. Or well, at least, not since Banter popped up in outposts and then crept its way onto the failboat (thank God).

So and so's narrator thinks/says/does something in story.

Call me nitpicky, but it drives me crazy when I see people do this now because, well it's unnecessary with banter.

Even people like Ada (sorry, you were the first person who came to mind) who don't use banter know well enough that if she has to run, make a quick exit.

I don't need to know in my story that Jane Doe's narrator has to run for a doctor's appointment, nor do I really care all that much. There is real life outside the island, I know. Your world cannot revolve around a scene, I understand.

And no, if you think someone is being an idiot, I couldn't give two flying fucks if you are face palming.**

That said. I would like to request a banter for Common Grounds so that people can communicate off to the side instead of in the story (cause apparently the appearance of banter has made distractions strictly useful for clan apps or those raunchy sex scenes you want to write, but not in story, just in case some poor fool stumbles across it ((although, even nowadays, if someone stumbles across it, it's probably because you want them to))

Now, I'd like to state that I have nothing against anyone in particular. I am just nitpicky.. And banter. For CG. maybe?


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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Collin-Vee
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 04:27 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

[Astonishingly amazing idea]



YES. PLEASE.


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 04:37 PM UTC  
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And World Map and Clans Halls! Banter for EVERYWHERE!

Oh, and I would say that, really, Distractions are most useful for cross-island communication and being ambiguously canonical.


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 05:10 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Full+Metal+Lion

And World Map and Clans Halls! Banter for EVERYWHERE!

Oh, and I would say that, really, Distractions are most useful for cross-island communication and being ambiguously canonical.



I know. I was just being a smart ass.


Also: I realized I had a footnote to my rant so I will add it now.

** I also do not condone in any way the public humiliation of other people because you think they are being idiotic. I will be the first person to admit that there are people here who drive me crazy, but I either avoid them or I let them know in distraction.

Don't be an asshole.


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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Harris
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 05:33 PM UTC  
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I'm not so sure we need this, as much as we need more attention to helping others learn the game.

I remember the intense amount of focus that there was on roleplaying before the Banter features were added in, and how exciting that was. it was one of the reason I joined. I also remember after Banter was added in how quickly the Island became a chatroom with a videogame attached to it.

I have no problem with getting to know people you play this game with; hell's bells- I love MANY of you folk who are here now and who are no longer here, BUT. I do NOT like have conversation happening instead of playing the game, which having chatspaces attached to almost every bit of the game encouraged us to do.

I love just hanging out with my friends, and making new ones, shooting the breeze, lounging, etc., but I also love just playing a boardgame/card game/videogame with them too.

I say "I'm not so sure" though, because I have also noticed in the last six months or so that the roleplaying in the whole community is heading for that old focus on roleplaying again, full speed ahead!

So I just wanted to share what I've seen before, during, and present- so you would know.

(and to acknowledge that okay, CMJ- I was wrong and you were right. Razz )


"Ain't nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile." -The Grateful Dead
 
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Ada
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 07:57 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Harris

I'm not so sure we need this, as much as we need more attention to helping others learn the game.

I remember the intense amount of focus that there was on roleplaying before the Banter features were added in, and how exciting that was. it was one of the reason I joined. I also remember after Banter was added in how quickly the Island became a chatroom with a videogame attached to it.

I have no problem with getting to know people you play this game with; hell's bells- I love MANY of you folk who are here now and who are no longer here, BUT. I do NOT like have conversation happening instead of playing the game, which having chatspaces attached to almost every bit of the game encouraged us to do.




This basically. Cherri, I know where you are coming from? But I see people doing the so-and-so's narr comments and the so-and-so walls in NewHome, in IC, in Kittania... all places with Banter. Adding Banter to the Common Ground - well, you can debate on whether or not that's a good thing on its own merits, but I assure you it will do nothing whatsoever for out-of-character comments.


 
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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Friday, August 31 2012 @ 09:39 PM UTC  


I really have nothing productive to add to this, but I agree with Ada and Harris. OOC comments are very, very prevalent in Story channels, even when there are Banter channels in the same area, so I don't imagine adding Banter to the CG would aid against this.

I also actually really prefer the CG as a strictly roleplaying space, and always have. Old-fashioned all the way! Mr. Green


 
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Clueless
 Saturday, September 01 2012 @ 01:24 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada


This basically. Cherri, I know where you are coming from? But I see people doing the so-and-so's narr comments and the so-and-so walls in NewHome, in IC, in Kittania... all places with Banter. Adding Banter to the Common Ground - well, you can debate on whether or not that's a good thing on its own merits, but I assure you it will do nothing whatsoever for out-of-character comments.



I must disagree, Ada, on your modifier of 'nothing whatsoever'. There are those who will keep on doing it, yes, but there are also those who only resort to the OOC comments in a Story only space when they need to get a message not to just one person, but to several, who may or may not be there at the time, who may be unknown to the person making the comment. You can hardly distract someone if you don't know that they're going to be there after all.

Personally when I have to do such things I leave the message up for about 1min 30-45secs, then grem it. Almost always enough time for the people I need to see it to see it, and then it's gone! Well, except to people with the right privileges, but meh.

Distracts between three people is far too clunky, and not everyone has a gtalk or skype or somesuch.


And sometimes you just need to point a person towards their distracts, or even towards banter.. Regrettably. The latter is usually the case with really new Islanders who have a hard time telling their arse from a baton.


Ok, that said, I disagree with having a banter in CG. I like the look and feel of it. And if you're in the CG you're in an outpost, which has banter, and most CG groups seem (to me) to enter the CG from the same outpost together. I always banter in my outpost while in the CG, and no one can claim that clicking between them is too hard to bother. Even mobile, which I suffer through a lot. A combination of distracts / off island contacts is good enough for the times when this is not true, but honestly I wish Natter would come back, because it was the perfect OOC comment area for multiple people at a time, no matter where on the Isle they are.

I also agree with Harris, about RPing instead of chatting. But sometimes I can't spare the time or energy, for various reasons (jungling, bad connection, real life, waiting for a narr), or appear in Story when I will soon vanish..

And I definitely agree with him about getting to know many of you lovely people! It's a shame that I've only met one Islander in real life, as of yet (On this note, Shi, you are awesome beyond words for what you have done.). I do need to change that. Err, but still, yes! RP RP RP!


Now, I'm going to stop before I bore you all to death. It's ever so hard to play with the dead.


 
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Iriana
 Saturday, September 01 2012 @ 01:34 AM UTC  
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Why not use the Global Banter for that? Ahead of time, post a comment saying "Right, folks, we're going to play in the CG, but if you want to just chatter, keep Global open in another tab." Then /grem it before you start.


 
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Clueless
 Saturday, September 01 2012 @ 02:06 AM UTC  
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Myself, I always forget about global. Always. I've opened it maybe five times in the past several months. I'll remember it even less now that I can minimize it's block on the sidebar. Bloody eyesore the thing is.


 
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Ada
 Saturday, September 01 2012 @ 04:54 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Clueless

Quote by: Ada


This basically. Cherri, I know where you are coming from? But I see people doing the so-and-so's narr comments and the so-and-so walls in NewHome, in IC, in Kittania... all places with Banter. Adding Banter to the Common Ground - well, you can debate on whether or not that's a good thing on its own merits, but I assure you it will do nothing whatsoever for out-of-character comments.



I must disagree, Ada, on your modifier of 'nothing whatsoever'. There are those who will keep on doing it, yes, but there are also those who only resort to the OOC comments in a Story only space when they need to get a message not to just one person, but to several, who may or may not be there at the time, who may be unknown to the person making the comment. You can hardly distract someone if you don't know that they're going to be there after all.

Personally when I have to do such things I leave the message up for about 1min 30-45secs, then grem it. Almost always enough time for the people I need to see it to see it, and then it's gone! Well, except to people with the right privileges, but meh.

Distracts between three people is far too clunky, and not everyone has a gtalk or skype or somesuch.


And sometimes you just need to point a person towards their distracts, or even towards banter.. Regrettably. The latter is usually the case with really new Islanders who have a hard time telling their arse from a baton.




Going to have to go right back and disagree with this... if you need to leave a chat space for whatever reason, you can walk out without making an OOC comment. People do it anyway. OOC comments are not required to point people to distracts or banter, and people do those anyway also. I don't think there are any reasons for which you would need to make an OOC comment in story, ever. Some people (you included) think they need to - and those people will keep on doing that. People type OOC comments when playing with a single other person on mapsquares.


 
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Clueless
 Saturday, September 01 2012 @ 05:28 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada


OOC comments are not required to point people to distracts or banter, and people do those anyway also.



... They are, Ada. Really sometimes they are. It can be a distract or banter that is vitally important to what is going on. I'm not saying this is always the case, but..

For example a 'Hey jackass, quit godmodding.', an explanation of some situation that they've completely screwed up, or a whisper or other covert action that others characters wouldn't notice, or that the sending Narr would prefer that the other narrators not see. And if it is vital to what is going on, and the receiving character doesn't notice, then you can fuck around waiting for them to pull their head out of their ass and waste everyone's time (and maybe in that time of waiting they screw more shit up story side), or you can poke them about it. Sometimes you need an OOC message passed instantly in a story only chatspace, such as for someone to grem a message.. You don't have the luxury of waiting for them to notice a distract in such cases, they might even post again if you stand by idly. I still believe in gremming such messages, but sometimes you need them..

Hell I've seen people posting banter into story like it was banter because they screwed up the channels. Don't ask me how they somehow couldn't discern from contextual clues what chat space they were looking at, because my only response would be something demeaning and cruel.


Yes, you can have your character leave, absolutely, or pass out, or zone out, or fall over stone dead. Or just improbably poof. Why the hell some people don't do these things is beyond me. And again with the demeaning and cruel. Distracts are great for messages like 'I'll be back in 30.' Or whatever.


Personally I prefer if people manage to get the OOC message across by remaining in character..

Contestant A peers at Contestant B's ear for a moment, quirking his eyebrow slightly before shaking his head... There was something Distracting there.. It seems to have passed. How Improbable!

Contestant A waves vaguely off towards the right, mumbling about multidimensional muffins.

.. But people are lazy. Or impatient. Or both.


In summary I don't believe OOC comments should remain in story, if they are used at all, which should be very rarely. I'm having a hard time thinking of an actual legit case where one should remain, because most cases can be covered by in character means! Directions, pass codes, specifics... I once was RPing, with myself, on the map. I had to stop mid-fight, so I storied it as an improbable time bubble of some sort forming around them, which was impervious to all outside interactions. I figured it got across the implied OOC message of 'Don't screw with them? Ok?" very well! And now I'm starting to ramble again.




 
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Iriana
 Saturday, September 01 2012 @ 07:39 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Clueless

Quote by: Ada


OOC comments are not required to point people to distracts or banter, and people do those anyway also.



... They are, Ada. Really sometimes they are. It can be a distract or banter that is vitally important to what is going on. I'm not saying this is always the case, but..

For example a 'Hey jackass, quit godmodding.', an explanation of some situation that they've completely screwed up, or a whisper or other covert action that others characters wouldn't notice, or that the sending Narr would prefer that the other narrators not see. And if it is vital to what is going on, and the receiving character doesn't notice, then you can fuck around waiting for them to pull their head out of their ass and waste everyone's time (and maybe in that time of waiting they screw more shit up story side), or you can poke them about it. Sometimes you need an OOC message passed instantly in a story only chatspace, such as for someone to grem a message.. You don't have the luxury of waiting for them to notice a distract in such cases, they might even post again if you stand by idly. I still believe in gremming such messages, but sometimes you need them..


With the 'jump to input box' thing after you post a comment, sometimes it is hard to see if you have a new Distraction. Which--could be changed, I guess, and that would solve your problem. I don't think telling someone to /grem merits an OOC comment--that's their business, really.

And honestly, even if someone is godmodding--let them know, and go ahead and wait for them to pull their head out of their ass. Maybe you can get everyone else to stop playing so they notice something is up. Either way, I think that it's a bit too serious to start talking about "wasting everyone's time" and "screwing up more shit". It's a game. Also, when have you ever known a habitual godmodder/general asshole to take notice of what people are shouting at him in Banter? There are some people for whom it doesn't really work.

I'm with Esc and Ada on this one, especially regarding the Common Grounds. I love Banter, and it is very useful sometimes. But it's certainly true that spaces without Banter feel different--more like real spaces on a real Island. For little pockets of space outside the outposts, like the CG, I think it's good to retain that.


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Saturday, September 01 2012 @ 07:56 PM UTC  
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Places without Banter also have a different feel to me than places with. They feel wrong. They feel like inconvenience. They mess up the aesthetics and leave a gaping blank space on the right. And if, for some reason, you don't want to use Banter, you can always post in Banter "I'm not going to use Banter, so please Distract me if you need to tell me anything OOCly." and then hide that column. And, bam! Everyone's happy! But there's no option to turn Banter on in places without it, which makes me unhappy.


 
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Clueless
 Saturday, September 01 2012 @ 08:55 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Iriana



With the 'jump to input box' thing after you post a comment, sometimes it is hard to see if you have a new Distraction. Which--could be changed, I guess, and that would solve your problem. I don't think telling someone to /grem merits an OOC comment--that's their business, really.



For example, they did something impossible, or something that made no sense in some way, in a situation that they likely don't even see why they are screwed up. Or maybe they did something that'll make a bad situation even worse. More often things that make no sense considering how things are situationally Like someone picking someone up at random while the person is sitting in a tree or so. It's still their choice to grem, and I think I've only asked for someone to grem something not even a handful of times, and that via banter or gtalk.


Quote by: Iriana


Either way, I think that it's a bit too serious to start talking about "wasting everyone's time" and "screwing up more shit". It's a game.



True, but is it so bad to not want a scene to go to hell because of the ignorance of one person? And ignorance is usually the perpetrator, not maliciousness.

Quote by: Iriana


Also, when have you ever known a habitual godmodder/general asshole to take notice of what people are shouting at him in Banter? There are some people for whom it doesn't really work.



They're not the subject of this matter specifically though. Most godmodding that I've seen isn't being done because someone is an ass, but because they think 'this'll be cool' or 'my character can manage this!' Assholes I find other ways around. Usually by ignoring them. Or screwing with them. It's fun to push their buttons back sometimes to counter their transgressions.. Earlier today someone tried to pick up the hat that my character inhabited (partially, tail and head sticking out of it while I was RPing with the person the hat was on) and throw it into a tree. In fact they just posted that they threw it into a tree, no trying at all. I called upon the hat being firmly attached to the person the hat was on to nullify it being thrown, and had my character snap at him to get the point across. A bit of muttering later, and there was no problem, we went about our ways ignoring eachother. What's my point? People don't always have something they feel they can fall back on, instantly, to prevent themselves being godmodded. And unless the godmodder is really looking for trouble they will stop, for then at least, when called out. Best to do it IC, absolutely, but people should not be shunned for doing what they feel they have to do to protect themselves and their scene. This is, after all, about the need for OOC comments in Story, and sometimes people don't find an IC way to solve problems.


Quote by: Iriana


I'm with Esc and Ada on this one, especially regarding the Common Grounds. I love Banter, and it is very useful sometimes. But it's certainly true that spaces without Banter feel different--more like real spaces on a real Island. For little pockets of space outside the outposts, like the CG, I think it's good to retain that.



I still agree! The CG needs no banter, there are outposts for that.


 
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Ebenezer
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 01:18 AM UTC  
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I feel I'm tiptoeing into dangerous territory, so let me begin by saying the following is merely my opinion and I don't mean to press it on anyone. Likewise, I don't think badly of anyone who's got an opinion that's different than mine!

Righto. Now that that's out of the way -- I think it might do some good to have Banter in the Common Grounds. My main line of reasoning is that I feel the Common Grounds might become a more popular RP space, if there was a Banter. Eventually, that may lead to less of a crowd in NewHome Story. That's a lot of "mights" and "maybes," I'm aware, and I've got no graphs or fancy numbers or anything to back up the idea. All I know is that the Common Grounds used to be a very popular RP space, because it was easily accessible and everyone was always hanging out there. I'm assuming (which makes an ass out of you and me) that NewHome's currently so popular because it's so "easy." If there were more equally "easy" spaces to RP in, then maybe--?

Banter makes it easier to find people, which is why it'd make the Common Grounds "easier." Global Banter is not easy, either, which is why it's not really a popular writing space. I'm going to quit here, before I get too rambly -- supposing I've not already crossed that line, that is.


 
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Ada
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 05:32 AM UTC  
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Clueless, if you are feeling the need to "protect your scene" somewhere, you don't need an OOC comment in story. You need a mod, you need to be roleplaying somewhere protected like your own Place - or you need to relax a little. Someone throws your character into a tree? Someone picks you up when you're inaccessible? Make it funny. Deny it. Roll with it and work it into the scene. Whatever. And then send a (polite!) distract to the other writer to explain why you felt their actions were out of line.


FML: just turn the blank column off, then. Razz


 
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CavemanJoe
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 04:12 PM UTC  
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I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?


 
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Ebenezer
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 04:17 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?



It'd clutter things up, wouldn't it? NewHome Banter's already busy enough as it is, without throwing every other Banter into it, too.

Edit: Or maybe it'd discourage people from Bantering so much in general, which might be good. More Storying, less Bantering. Hmmmmm. . . This deserves a bit more thought.


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 04:18 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Iriana

Why not use the Global Banter for that? Ahead of time, post a comment saying "Right, folks, we're going to play in the CG, but if you want to just chatter, keep Global open in another tab." Then /grem it before you start.



I for one, am not a fan of global banter and usually ignore it. And I know a lot of other people ignore t.

Quote by: Escemfer

I really have nothing productive to add to this, but I agree with Ada and Harris. OOC comments are very, very prevalent in Story channels, even when there are Banter channels in the same area, so I don't imagine adding Banter to the CG would aid against this.

I also actually really prefer the CG as a strictly roleplaying space, and always have. Old-fashioned all the way!



I do to and I understand a lot of people in that they like the banter free space, but I have to respectfully disagree on its productivity:

Quote by: Ada

FML: just turn the blank column off, then.



^ It is important to note that you can turn off banter and if that blank column bothers you, you can do what Ada suggested to FML here. It's no different from having no banter at all, because you still won't see it.

I have to ask, and again, I mean this as respectfully as possible; How often do you, who don't want banter in the Common Grounds, actually play there? Is it enough time that depriving others of the convenience is worth it?

Quote by: CavemanJoe

I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?



Personally, I am with Ebenezer. It would be too cluttery. But I would like it in CG. (In case, you know, you didn't notice)


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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