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Docenspiel
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 06:07 PM UTC  
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Being American, the chav bit of Midgets has always mostly gone over my head (my only knowledge of the group is from jokes made by British comedians and that there's a show called Eastenders that's apparently all about them).

When you take away their accent, what are Midgets? They're brutish, uncouth, uneducated hooligans that care for laws as much as they care for personal hygiene (that is, not at all). And what I've also seen in how people play Midgets, is that they're surprisingly close knit when faced with outside threats. Now who does that describe? You might say chav, but I see the stereotypical American hillbilly as well as the Scots, Irish, punks, people from just about every industrial city and football fans. Just about every culture has one group that could fit as Midgets, the subculture that doesn't want to conform to society's rules.

Another thing I've noticed about how people play Midgets is that they enjoy it. A lot. Midgets allow them to cut loose, to be as disgusting and rowdy as they wish with little social consequence. It allows them to be the opposite of most everything about them; it allows them to rebel. It seems to me that Midgets are less an insult towards Those People, the groups that refuse to integrate into society, and more a parody of people's desire to do whatever they want. Much like Mary's idea of grown-up Neverland, I see Midgets as people without social inhibitions, a more basic, almost primal form of humanity blown to comedic proportions.



So with all that said, Midgets still need a distinct physical characteristic that makes them not just Humans with a sour disposition and sourer armpits. The amphibian people, while fun, skews too far from Humans for the joke to be seen, I think. I had an idea about having them actually made of the swamp they live in, to fit "Swampers" as well as to keep their resemblance to Humans intact. But that brings up problems with how human vices (smoking, drinking, shagging) affect them; how is alcohol supposed to affect a mudman?


For rent: one skull, in serious need of dusting.
 
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Lea.wolfsfeld
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 06:22 PM UTC  
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Part of me is starting to think that the topic is having too much thought put into it. The drive has deemed to create a race of foul tempered humanoids of short stature that have horrible habit of thievery and generally being unpleasant. Perhaps the rancid term would have stuck simply because no one could bring themselves to think of a nicer term due to how horribly most island midgets behaved.

And lets be honest, tags like that would stick very well regardless how offensive it is IRL.

Also, its my belief that if The Watcher declared the race to be called Midgets, they are called midgets.

I am of course only trying to see things from the perspective of someone on the island.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 06:26 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Lea.wolfsfeld

Part of me is starting to think that the topic is having too much thought put into it. The drive has deemed to create a race of foul tempered humanoids of short stature that have horrible habit of thievery and generally being unpleasant. Perhaps the rancid term would have stuck simply because no one could bring themselves to think of a nicer term due to how horribly most island midgets behaved.

And lets be honest, tags like that would stick very well regardless how offensive it is IRL.

Also, its my belief that if The Watcher declared the race to be called Midgets, they are called midgets.

I am of course only trying to see things from the perspective of someone on the island.



All very valid points, but the fiction has to be considered in terms of how it'll be interpreted by a real-world audience. Regardless of how much I might justify it via story, at the end of the day discriminatory is discriminatory.


 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 06:59 PM UTC  
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It occurs to me that if they're called 'Swampers' and their in-canon physical build is revised to be short-ish but not tiny enough to qualify as midgets or dwarfs, that gets rid of the initial issue.

As for differentiating them from regular-humans, I don't see any need to turn them into frog-people. I'm thinking of the phrase: "Built like a brick shit-house." Rock-solid, dense, all muscle (which some may claim includes the head).


 
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Matthew
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 07:31 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Quote by: Matthew

But that's the point. You're taking a pretty hilarious character concept and saying "the entire race is like this" which is both completely unrealistic and completely dull.



You are joking here aren't you? Do you even RP to be able to say something like that? The range and depth that you can put into midgets is a much as it is for humans. You just then put a midget slant on it. There's been no suggestion in this thread that will affect that in the slightest.



uh. I might not RP much now (work, bills, etc), but I have RPed both a lot on the island and a whole hell of a lot over my entire life, so let's not play that card, please?

Also, you missed my point, because we seem to be on the same side? I'm just legitimately very confused what you're trying to say/accuse me of here!


 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 07:34 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Quote by: CavemanJoe

And, after-posting, reading the post that got in while I was typing this one - again, stressing this, keep it civil. That's as uncivil as you get to be - posts that cross my arbitrary line of incivility will get erased, regardless of who posts them, their position of privilege or lack thereof, or the post's merit or lack thereof. You lot know damn well that I'm a tyrant who will quite cheerfully wipe his arse on the first amendment, so you know I'll follow through on this. Mr. Green



My apologies. I'll shut up.



Bollocks. Your opinion is very valuable, both as a mod and as someone who does awesome things with the Midget race. Lazer Towel's opinion is valuable too, as a player. Don't shut up. Just, like, put smilies in or something. Razz


 
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dizzyizzy
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 08:02 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

It occurs to me that if they're called 'Swampers' and their in-canon physical build is revised to be short-ish but not tiny enough to qualify as midgets or dwarfs, that gets rid of the initial issue.

As for differentiating them from regular-humans, I don't see any need to turn them into frog-people. I'm thinking of the phrase: "Built like a brick shit-house." Rock-solid, dense, all muscle (which some may claim includes the head).



At this point, you've begun describing Dizzy. Incredibly strong, but slow, brusque, racist, petty, vindictive, foulmouthed, and just generally an arsehole. He's even been described with your phrase, there.

He's not quite human, more some variety of Joker. My halfassed explanation for him is "Strongman" - from whatever circus the Carnie Jokers hail from. Mostly I just like playing a character that's vastly overpowered, just to drop him into situations where strength means nothing (but he'll try anyways). Don't know if that's an idea worth considering.


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 10:03 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Docenspiel


And Squat just sounds weird when used as a noun.


So it does... but "Swampers" sounds too much like an Aquaman villain for my taste. I suggest we take the best parts of both terms and use the word "Squatters" for Midgets. It sounds nice, and it will only get confusing if people start inhabiting other people's Places without paying rent, which seems unlikely. Besides, Midgets seem like the sort of people to do a thing like that, anyway.


 
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Rowley
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 10:52 PM UTC  
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It's my first time to weigh in on the discussion, though I've been following it from Dizzy's first post, before any replies.

This is a thing that should be done the sooner the better, extra work or no extra work. (Everything you do always works out to "extra work" in the end.)

I see no problem with using the word "Squat" as a noun for these guys. It has the proper improper connotations. I agree with Lion, though, that "Squatters" could get confusiong, and would remove a useful word from Island vocabulary. Possible alternatives? Scuzzymorph. Gnome, Goblin, Kobold, or some other word from folklore that's not used as a common pejorative for real people.


 
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Docenspiel
 Monday, April 21 2014 @ 11:25 PM UTC  
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Why would we rename them a generic fantasy race when they were renamed in the first place so as to not be a generic fantasy race? And my reason for not liking "Squatters" is the same as with "Squats". We really need to know exactly what the new Midgets are going to be before we can give them a suitable name.


For rent: one skull, in serious need of dusting.
 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 12:26 AM UTC  
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All right. I hereby offer: Mudder.

It's got the right cadence to fit into existing texts.

It's suitably sullen-sounding.

It won't even spoil any alliterative phrases.

...and just think of the puns!


 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 12:57 AM UTC  
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Here's a test for proposed new names... see how they would sound in that original level one monster, the Angry Midget. (Not because we couldn't just turn that monster off if we needed to, but if a name will work there, it can probably be made to work everywhere.) An example:
===
You hear a nasal voice coming from behind you. "All right mate, 'ave you got the time?"

You turn around, bewildered.

“Right 'ere, boss," says the voice. It’s a stocky tracksuit-clad Mudder staring at you.

"I haven't actually got a watch," you reply.

"Nah mate, on yer phone, innit? What's the time on yer phone? Kin I 'ave a look at yer phone?"

You shake your head. "They didn't let me bring it..."

"GIVE US YER PHONE, INNIT!" screams the Mudder.

Not too bright, this one. Fighting back laughter, you assume the combat stance.

You have encountered Angry Mudder which lunges at you with hard fists!
===

All I've done here is change the name -- and take out the tiny.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 01:40 AM UTC  
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Mudder is especially hilarious considering II's heritage from MUDs.

I'm not entirely sure losing the "tiny" aspect is necessary. I'm rather hung up on the frog people idea - they're different enough from humans that being short isn't directly offensive, they bring in a new set of physical features to play with, and they're actually literally slimy.

(We could even call them Hoppits.)


 
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Docenspiel
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 02:00 AM UTC  
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Quote by: dizzyizzy


(We could even call them Hoppits.)


PffffffffttHAHAHAHAHA!
I'd still much prefer a more humanoid race but Hoppits is definitely my chosen fall-back. And Murders sounds just as good as Swampers (even if it would be a little odd at first, since it's also what American Southerners who like messing about in mud are called).


For rent: one skull, in serious need of dusting.
 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 04:07 AM UTC  
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Hel-lo Mudder -- hel-lo fodder!
Crap meat goes with Squat Hole wanker.
Mudder brothel's entertaining,
I just wish the sky'd stop Skronky raining.


 
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Denealus
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 04:36 AM UTC  
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...if we end up calling them Mudders, I'm going to make a jungle monster called a "Mudder Fogger" I swear to God.....


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 05:20 AM UTC  
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Slobbits?


 
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dizzyizzy
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 06:07 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Slobbits?



That, at least, won't feel like a forced pun. Razz

In my perfect world, I'd like to see a new race filling much the same archetype as Midgets do now come Season 3, with ways to differentiate them from just begin unpleasant humans. Making them short doesn't make them any less human, they need distinguishing. I'm a big fan of frog people, FWIW. I might take Nigel on a froggy test spin this weekend.

I'd also like to see the new name come about as soon as Cavemanly possible. Maybe retcon the "midget" label entirely, have the "new" race that is essentially unchanged save for the name finish us out whatever's left of season two, and have them all mutate simultaneously come season 3?


(There's another idea - Cavemen. Or is that over your "arbitrary line of incivility"? Razz )


 
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Twosocks Monkey
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 11:12 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Docenspiel

Quote by: dizzyizzy


(We could even call them Hoppits.)


PffffffffttHAHAHAHAHA!
I'd still much prefer a more humanoid race but Hoppits is definitely my chosen fall-back. And Murders sounds just as good as Swampers (even if it would be a little odd at first, since it's also what American Southerners who like messing about in mud are called).


Look what happened when I googled Hoppits:



http://teenyweenyfamilies.weebly.com/homemakers---rabbits.html

Excerpt:

'Grandma Hoppit has been working all day in the Hippity Hop Cafe and she would love to just relax in the nice comfy sofa and watch TV, but Baby Sally needs feeding - and she's making such a noise with her rattle!'

'It's time for Grandma Hoppit to feed Baby Sally. She's so hungry!'


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
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Docenspiel
 Tuesday, April 22 2014 @ 01:27 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Slobbits?


Eh, I'd find it hard to believe Midgets would call themselves that, let alone let other people do it. What about Nobbits?


For rent: one skull, in serious need of dusting.
 
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