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Cherriki Ten
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 05:03 AM UTC (Read 20297 times)  
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Okay, so, I think I may have made my opinions pretty clear on the subject, but at the behest of CMJ and others, I am starting up a new topic for feedback on the new Global Banter.

For anyone who would like to keep up on what's gone on so far, it is the tail end of Banter in Common Grounds.

So: Long story short from what I have seen so far. Some people like it, most people dislike it, and some people are willing to give it it's week.

I don't like it personally, but I've posted until I'm blue in the fingertips and I don't really have anything to add.


So uh, have at 'er. Cool


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Genevieve
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 05:17 AM UTC  
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It was mentioned in the other thread that Places should have options. I agree. I think Global Banter should be optional, and Private Banter still be an option in Places.

In outposts... Yes, alright, I am sick to death of sloppy, festering piles of cuddles and variations on that theme. It's gross to see all the time, even in the tranquil quiet of Squathole.

But I won't let that take away from a few clear benefits:

Mass sudden invitations. If something amusing is happening, a quick hop to Banter allows a good portion of the Island to be invited suddenly. Someone's having a swordfight with trouts on sticks? Where? CC404? Brilliant, on my way.

Nothing delights me more than when two PRATs are in an outpost and suddenly three more show up. We never plan that, it always happens randomly, but imagine if everyone could pull that off all the time. "Hi entire island not in Dwellings, want to come play hopskotch in Ace High? Because that's happening. BYOB."

that is pretty cool, that chance right there.

Now. I think another fun experiment would be erasing all banters except in Dwellings. But that's partially because I am a jerk. No.. I am mostly a jerk. I think scrapping Banter in outposts would probably make even more people angry, but would... hopefully... remind a few players that Improbable Island is a Role Playing Game and not a social networking site.

A lot of people talk OOC here, I know, but I am sometimes very deeply disturbed by how dramatic Out Of Character conversations can get! This is a game! I think deeply felt personal dramas aren't something someone should feel from a game.

This is just me, though. Big Grin What I've seen from Global Banter so far today is a LOT of complaining and very short fuses and a few people who didn't pay much heed to the change and a lot of confusion.

I think that no true judgements can be made until it has been around longer, though.

Just expect a lot of excited invitations to absolute nonsense until this goes away again Big Grin!


 
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Harris
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 06:14 AM UTC  
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Exactly what Gen said.

It's a chat function. Relax.
And no, dammit, I don't mean "HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN?" I mean "Why? Why are you angry/dismissive/annoyed?" Voice your opinion, be calm, and try it. If it kills you, you never have to try it again.

Plus, this will or won't work, and it's already been dubbed an experiment, as well as . easy to change back.


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Escemfer
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 06:23 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Harris

Plus, this will or won't work, and it's already been dubbed an experiment, as well as . easy to change back.



For an experiment, thus far I think it's pretty neat. Big Grin People are saying it's going far too fast for them, but from my experience with it earlier, it didn't seem to be going much faster than NewHome Banter during the busy part of the evening (which is fast, granted, but a lot of the complaints were from people who do chat in NewHome during the busy hours).

It'll be awesome when Places get private Banter back, but since CMJ's promised that's in the works, I think the current trial run is fine and have no problems with it. Either it'll work, which won't enrage me, or it won't work, which also won't enrage me. Wink I'm easily pleased.


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 06:27 AM UTC  
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My only regret with this system so far is that, in the future, I don't see myself being able to quietly reminisce to some rookie about Back when Banters were Separate. Unless I'm in a Place, of course, I don't see much slow, quiet bantering being possible. But that's really just a first impression.


 
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Melinda
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 07:20 AM UTC  
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No problem with banter itself (I kind of like it, actually), but the island is running very slowly for me.


 
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Twosocks Monkey
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 11:47 AM UTC  
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I only have one sadness about it.

In the past, you'd do a scene somewhere remote, like New Pitts or Squathole or good old Ace High.

It would stay there, lonesome, for some time, and the best, the best, was if you happened to wander back, sometimes you'd see little banter posts from people commenting on your scene.

There was something wonderful about Harris leaving a little applause behind, or someone else grinning.

Otherwise, I love me some change.

moo

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Hairy Mary
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 02:23 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Twosocks+Monkey

I only have one sadness about it.

In the past, you'd do a scene somewhere remote, like New Pitts or Squathole or good old Ace High.

It would stay there, lonesome, for some time, and the best, the best, was if you happened to wander back, sometimes you'd see little banter posts from people commenting on your scene.

There was something wonderful about Harris leaving a little applause behind, or someone else grinning.

Otherwise, I love me some change.

moo

-Rose



This. I'm still getting used to it, but so far, exactly this. Thank you for articulating me here Twosocks.


 
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Sonny
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 03:09 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Genevieve


But I won't let that take away from a few clear benefits:

Mass sudden invitations. If something amusing is happening, a quick hop to Banter allows a good portion of the Island to be invited suddenly. Someone's having a swordfight with trouts on sticks? Where? CC404? Brilliant, on my way.

Nothing delights me more than when two PRATs are in an outpost and suddenly three more show up. We never plan that, it always happens randomly, but imagine if everyone could pull that off all the time. "Hi entire island not in Dwellings, want to come play hopskotch in Ace High? Because that's happening. BYOB."

that is pretty cool, that chance right there.


Sorry, but that's what you could have done all along in the old Global.


I gave it a try yesterday and it perhaps was even worse than I expected, I soon hid the chat. Posts stayed maybe 1 min 30sec max on the page and the constant shifting and updating made me dizzy when I tried to follow the bantering. How anyone would communicate about rp scenes there, or even normal banter is a mystery to me.


I understand the idea behind it, and it is essentially a good one, but I think the biggest problem is the amount of people playing and also bantering. It's now one big chatroom for too many different groups of people and topics with currently no ingame options except distraction to find a quieter corner. You get a convoluted mess with a post rate nearing warp.

I doubt chats in places will change much about it when they return. The option of messy global or lonely places chat doesn't help those jungling or rping in cities.
There's simply no easy way to talk about or discuss something game related or otherwise like it was in the small, often quiet environment of the old city banters and global.
And, no. Gtalk, distractions, etc are no good substitutes, as Jenkins mentioned in the other thread. They work for certain circumstances and few players, or private talk, but otherwise an ingame solution is in my opinion preferable.


This community consists of many, often very different, people. While forcing them all together might tamper some of the extreme bouts of ooc drama and huggles and stuff some others don't like overly much, it irritates, annoys, scares or misguides other groups at the same time.


And just think about the rookies! All those poor, confused rookies!


PS: Speaking of all the banters, may we, please, have a seperate banter in the Clan Halls?


 
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Collin-Vee
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 03:55 PM UTC  
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Okay. I'm going to say this now.

I don't like the new banter. Quite frankly, I respect the experiment, and the intentions, don't get me wrong.

But I can't keep up unless Banter is the only thing I use.

You can't talk to people who aren't like Me and Omega and can Banter with a few posts on the same page.

You can't even use banter for it's intended purpose! It's forcing people off the website and onto Gtalk, which not everyone has.

Instead of, say, making Global Banter more obvious. Which if most of my asking around is correct, a lot of people DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT.

CMJ's goals aside, this new system is CHAOS. Nobody can coordinate scenes. Nobody can flesh out an idea together. When a newbie shows up in NewHome, they get buried under forty people saying different things. I can't even give a good greeting and have any more than two people see it before it's gone. I've literally had people greet me on my fourth post in Banter.

And all that aside, the worst part is, I can see this staying. Enough of the more experienced people who were around before banter say 'if you don't like it, don't use it!', then comment how much they like it. But Banter can't even be used like this, private Places or not. You're pushing people AWAY from outposts so they can have a quiet little chat about a scene if this continues.

I'm not asking to scrap the idea, but it needs more than a bit of shuffling around, private banters elsewhere, then slapping a 'DONE' sticker on it.


 
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Genevieve
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 04:15 PM UTC  
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Sonny: Yes, I know the old global could've done that, except I couldn't expect everyone I know to be on global. There were very, very few people using global to begin with, that's what makes this unique.

This ties in with what Collin said. If people were more aware of Global, it may get used more.

Maybe, after this experiment is over, if the link to Global Banter was put somewhere near regular Banter, people would remember wat Global is, and use it more!

But before this, sadly, Sonny, if I popped into Global I would wait a good five minutes for a reply, from people who didn't really want to RP at the time.

Before this, Global Banter was a missed opportunity by a lot of people.

And another thing Collin said is yeaaaah the rookies. The game prompts you to introduce yourself in Banter. if Banter is a constantly moving wash of people with bright and colorful names and text, one lone rookie will get lost in the tide, it is true.

Twosocks also has a point, that's a pretty damn nice feeling. Though I've started to distract people who've made me laugh. I'm paranoid about the seven days always running out before compliments are paid. I keep forgetting about that! Even less time in places like NewHome!


 
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Harris
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 04:52 PM UTC  
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I think Buddleia put it the very best:

Quote by: Buddleia

And then, the suggestion of one Global Banter instead of many Local Banters. At first I thought "oh god no, it'll be chaos with sixty people Bantering at once instead of the usual 30 in NH, 20 in KT and 10-or-so from everywhere else all suddenly thrown in to one channel".

And then, I stopped to think about that. Yes, there would be chaos. There would be howls of dismay from people who insist that they need Banter and can't possibly function without it. There would be great confusion from people trying to coordinate one scene mixed up with the people trying to coordinate another scene elsewhere and a third group in another town and the other several score folks chatting away with all their usual OOC stuff. It would be a painful transition, if we make it.

And yet. And yet. The Island did just fine before the introduction of Banter. Scenes still got coordinated; roleplay still happened without Major Misunderstandings which could only possibly have been worked out by a chat channel tied to the location. Nowdays, in the areas without Banter - the world map, the Commons, the pubs, many thousands of Rooms in Places - people still roleplay just fine. Scenes still get coordinated. Rookies still get welcomed and their questions answered. Location Four still gets a lot of use.

A lot of what I see in the Banter channels, particularly in the busy places, in my opinion does not really need to be posted into Improbable Island. Lots of one-word posts, lots of - let's be frank - somewhat inane chat. People are saying "hi" and "lol" and "bye", but also licking, nomming, groping, petting, hugging, bantercouch, and so on. Social noise rather than meaningful messages. Of course, there are also things like "sorry got to go in ten minutes, let's wrap up this scene soon", and "the box my character is offering yours is approximately six inches on a side. If you open it, it contains a confused badger" and "hey, people, event A is taking place at location B at time C! All welcome!" - I expect that everyone would agree that those are a fine use for Banter. But, a lot of what happens in Banter does not look to me as if it really really needs to be taking up Improbable Island server capacity. Some of it does, but not all. (Of course, that's my opinion, and I'm sure many of the people posting social messages like greetings and how their day went and so on would think that yes, it does need to be posted, and who am I to criticise them and try to silence them?)

Maybe, just maybe, if local Banter was removed, then after the initial overloading chaos and gnashing of teeth, then people would reconsider the purpose of a Banter channel, and start only posting in it if they think that their message really needs to be seen by everyone, and using GChat or AIM or MSN or an IRC channel or something for their semi-private socialising? Maybe? And maybe possibly this would free up 400 chat-pages worth of server space, and let the Island run a little faster?


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Maniak
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 05:18 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Genevieve


But I won't let that take away from a few clear benefits:

Mass sudden invitations. If something amusing is happening, a quick hop to Banter allows a good portion of the Island to be invited suddenly. Someone's having a swordfight with trouts on sticks? Where? CC404? Brilliant, on my way.

Nothing delights me more than when two PRATs are in an outpost and suddenly three more show up. We never plan that, it always happens randomly, but imagine if everyone could pull that off all the time. "Hi entire island not in Dwellings, want to come play hopskotch in Ace High? Because that's happening. BYOB."

that is pretty cool, that chance right there.



The outpost notice board is much better for mass invitations, not at least because it stays up for a lot longer than the banter that moves at 20 posts a minute. Which is exactly my problem with the new banter. It is distracting, difficult to follow, challenging to read and impossible to hold a decent conversation.


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Harris
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 05:28 PM UTC  
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As for the complaints not addressed above:

Non-II chat functions are too inconvenient? Honestly? Distracting people/gchat/e-mail/etc., and/or opening a new tab is too much bother? It's a few mouse clicks, maybe a password typed in. Or, it's a message typed to the people you want to talk to anyway. And what are most of the messaging options anyway, but e-mail derivatives? Clicking your mouse, maybe typing one paragraph, maybe copypasting that paragraph is too much hassle? No. It isn't. This is a stupid point to make, and I really do not think any of you are anything but damn smart.

Who has read the MOtD? This is not only still officially an experiment, CMJ is also rolling out Place-specific Banter, even room specific Banter! For everyone who wants Banter channels that are underpopulated/quiet all of the time, it's about to get better than it was.

Think of the childrenRookies!
Noble, but...I already saw it on day ONE of the experiment, where someone introduced herself as new, and started asking questions, and the chat flew several lines past her questions, with no answers, and then... Everyone acknowledged her, AND all of her questions were answered. We attract literate, clever, patient folk. It's sad, but true.


I firmly maintain that we do NOT need Outpost specific Banter, as it tempted us to take the path of least resistance, and not go from outpost to outpost to talk to people, and this not only created the Banter clusterfuck that was Kittania, but oh.... CC 404, New Pittsburgh, and AceHigh being OVERRUN SO FUCKING OFTEN.

Having Global Banter only in Outposts, and Private/specific Banter only in Places, no matter how you slice it, is a win/win scenario.


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Harris
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 05:40 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Maniak

The outpost notice board is much better for mass invitations, not at least because it stays up for a lot longer than the banter that moves at 20 posts a minute. Which is exactly my problem with the new banter. It is distracting, difficult to follow, challenging to read and impossible to hold a decent conversation.



No, it isn't better. If your event happens on short notice, then Banter is where it's at. You can't answer questions in Notice Board, either. What if they have questions?

The fact that Banter has those advantages, and Notices stay up for much longer put them on and even keel, really. Both are good, but one or the other will always better- depending entirely on what you need it to do.


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Trex
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 05:59 PM UTC  
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Going to throw my two cents into the mix here:

I love the new Banter and think that it should stay. We will adapt and thrive as we always do.

Besides, I want place wide banters, and this was the first step towards that goal :3


 
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Marca
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 06:07 PM UTC  
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I don't like the new Banter. It's too fast-paced and newbies asking questions will get lost in it. Also, we already have a sitewide Banter thing called Location Four. I like the idea of a sitewide Banter viewable from the main page of the Outpost, but I don't like that it replaces the individual Outpost's Banter channel. Maybe a setup with three channels (Story, Banter, Sitewide Banter) would work better?


 
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Harris
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 06:11 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Marca

I don't like the new Banter. It's too fast-paced and newbies asking questions will get lost in it. Also, we already have a sitewide Banter thing called Location Four. I like the idea of a sitewide Banter viewable from the main page of the Outpost, but I don't like that it replaces the individual Outpost's Banter channel. Maybe a setup with three channels (Story, Banter, Sitewide Banter) would work better?



Quote by: Harris

I firmly maintain that we do NOT need Outpost specific Banter, as it tempted us to take the path of least resistance, and not go from outpost to outpost to talk to people, and this not only created the Banter clusterfuck that was Kittania, but oh.... CC 404, New Pittsburgh, and AceHigh being OVERRUN SO FUCKING OFTEN.


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quinn
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 06:17 PM UTC  
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Honestly, I've read all the opinions here and I agree with some and disagree with others. While this is a much more fast-paced Banter than some, I'm loving it so far. Things will slow down as people get used to the change after all!

A way to keep an eye on who's active while I'm building? Check.
A way to spontaneously invite people to a scene of somesort without needing SP? Check
A way for new members to get greeted Island-wide on the chance (and it HAS happened) that NewHome is empty? Check!

Not mention keeping Banter more central to RP. As much as I like a quick hi and such, the cuddling and the like does get out of hand at times. Lots of times.

I for one plan to keep a Global banter channel open in at least one of my rooms (for building and such times!) and if we're really getting place wide banter? Even better.


 
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Collin-Vee
 Wednesday, September 05 2012 @ 06:19 PM UTC  
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Quote by: quinn

Not mention keeping Banter more central to RP.



How, pray-tell, are we able to do that, when our posts are buried within less than a minute?


 
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