Enquirer Home Page | Twitter | Back to Improbable Island

 Forum Index > Legacy Forums: Season One > Everything Else New Topic Post Reply
 Cobblestone Usage?
 |  Printable Version
dizzyizzy
 Saturday, December 17 2011 @ 02:59 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 503

Quote by: Awesome+Fred


Regardless of our story opinions, I don't think that Kittania's a reason to prevent this mechanic. Maybe an additional mechanic should be in place, like a cap (building too high will block sunshine, it violates century-old building codes, it gets in range of the Drive's laser beam, etc) or perhaps it should get more exhausting per action as you have to climb the walls to get to the top and keep building. Whatever it is, those mechanics can help stop Kittania (and to a lesser extent, Pleasantville, which has finally been normalizing in the most recent times). But the point of Cobblestones being usable for more-efficient wall repair but costing limited resources is that--you want to increase walls at an accelerated pace with Cobblestones when there is danger, and you want to save resources and use Planks when the situation is not dire.

If we had that mechanic, and a cap of 25 million wall HP, Kittania would not be crazy-high, and the proposed Cobblestone mechanic would be useful for AceHigh, Cyber City 404, and Squat Hole.



I think problems should be fixed before we add new features to something. I'd like to see a mechanic that makes it easier to defend CC and NP, I really would. But I'd like more to see a breach rip through kittania every couple weeks, and the threat levels always a bit above the lowest there. Redirect the circumstances of the outpost, like. (Idea: remove the lowest threat level. Not make it harder to breach, necessarily, but have at least someone worried or wary in the flavor text all the time. It's a goddamn war zone, innit?)

Quote by: Awesome+Fred


Side note: It's hard to build a wall on swamp. Instead, the wall should be largely made of out angry midgets that scare off the creatures, but as midgets get bored or antsy, the wall HP begins to fall. Reinforcing involves hitting the midgets with planks, or if the mechanic goes in place, cobblestones, to get them back in line. There, that's a silly-toned thing. Mr. Green



Brilliant! Laughing Out Loud


 
Profile Email
Quote
Count Sessine
 Saturday, December 17 2011 @ 06:57 PM UTC  
Forum Moderator
Moderator

Status: offline

Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 1400

Quote by: dizzyizzy

The absolute last thing kittania needs is a way to be even more secure. The "lazy kittymorphs" had built their walls over 100 million before a titan finally, mercifully, slipped through and destroyed it. I laughed, that day. I wish it had been breached, but the warning level was, as usual, at zero.

Kittania is a detraction to game immersion. It's never in danger. The wall sizes don't make sense. And the general writing there reflects that. It's a happy place, unless someone's gone and fucked the wrong person, or maybe there's a demon infestation. Rarely, if ever, do I see anything reflecting the fact that people were plucked from their homes, dropped naked on an island, and forced to fight against all manner of hellish beasts to kill an unkillable enemy.


Quote by: dizzyizzy

I'd like to see a mechanic that makes it easier to defend CC and NP, I really would. But I'd like more to see a breach rip through kittania every couple weeks, and the threat levels always a bit above the lowest there. Redirect the circumstances of the outpost, like. (Idea: remove the lowest threat level. Not make it harder to breach, necessarily, but have at least someone worried or wary in the flavor text all the time. It's a goddamn war zone, innit?)

Ah, so you don't want to see people having fun in Kittania, and enjoying the game -- even though they have, collectively, as you point out, earned this security within the rules of the game, by assiduously building up the walls, and fighting jungle monsters until the threat level is zero.

I get that, for yourself, you want there to be risk, fear, and insecurity. You want your character to feel that he's in a war zone, never able to relax. But why does it annoy you (not your character, you) that it's not Island-wide fear from shore to shore, that people who don't want that are actually managing to enjoy themselves? I don't see why that would be a problem with immersion. In real-life war zones, people certainly gather in safe well-defended refuges if they possibly can, and they'll usually try to forget there's a war on. It makes perfect sense that many contestants, dropped against their will into an unwinnable war, would head straight for a place that attracts enough strong fighters to be safe from monsters, and then they'd relax, make friends, have a social life, maybe even a love life. Perhaps they'd start to help with the fighting, too, or perhaps not... but if they did, they'd do it where their friends were.

If you're roleplaying a battle-worn soldier who is irritated by those bloody civilians who aren't pulling their weight -- that's fine. That happens a lot in war zones, too. I would have thought that would help with immersion, not hinder it.

Back on topic -- I think Fred's right, here:
Quote by: Awesome Fred

the point of Cobblestones being usable for more-efficient wall repair but costing limited resources is that--you want to increase walls at an accelerated pace with Cobblestones when there is danger, and you want to save resources and use Planks when the situation is not dire.


If cobblestones were added as a more-effective method of reinforcing walls, I would expect them not to be used very much in Kittania. Because they're a finite resource, people who had them would reserve them for emergencies.

However... until CC404, AH, and NP attract more jungle fighters who'll wade in and reduce the monster numbers, reinforcing the wall is never going to be more than a stopgap measure. For now, those outposts remain excellent locations for those who want risk, fear, and insecurity.


 
Profile Email
Quote
dizzyizzy
 Saturday, December 17 2011 @ 09:15 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 503

Quote by: dizzyizzy

Not that that has to be central to everything, but it's the lens that should be written through.



All of what you said makes sense, sessine, and I'd be happy if that's the way it was. You described how people act when they're pretending they're not in a war zone. But it's the narrators that are pretending, not the characters. I want people to have fun on the island, and enjoy the game. But the game's not a blank canvas. CMJ's created a world to play in. Not a website to play on, a world to play in.

One example of this I use in other discussions on the topic is that of pregnancy. How fucking sick in the head do you have to be to bring a child into a world where there's a goddamn massive drive that delights in creating all manner of hellish beats bent on destroying you for no discernible reason? To put a child in a position where they live and die solely for the amusement of strangers thousands of miles away? To run a pregnancy plot, you have to lose sight of the setting. Pregnancy plots aren't the only example of this, but they are the one that irk me the most.

Basically, If your playground doesn't have monkeybars, find another way to amuse yourself. Don't ignore the merry-go-round while you try to kludge some monkeybars together that don't fit in the playground anyway.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Count Sessine
 Saturday, December 17 2011 @ 10:04 PM UTC  
Forum Moderator
Moderator

Status: offline

Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 1400

Quote by: dizzyizzy

One example of this I use in other discussions on the topic is that of pregnancy. How fucking sick in the head do you have to be to bring a child into a world where there's a goddamn massive drive that delights in creating all manner of hellish beasts bent on destroying you for no discernible reason? To put a child in a position where they live and die solely for the amusement of strangers thousands of miles away? To run a pregnancy plot, you have to lose sight of the setting.

You're not the only one to feel this way. CMJ has, in fact, been systematically removing all code references to children on the Island, and for legal reasons, as mods (because this is an adult-players-only site), we have been strongly discouraging people from roleplaying underage characters.

That said... if we're talking how real people would -- and do -- behave when they find themselves in a hellish war zone... I would point you to the birth rate in just about any war-torn country you care to name. It does not fall to zero. Usually, in fact, it rises. People do not stop having children. The normal, almost hard-wired, human response to 'too much death' is to create more life.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Zolotisty
 Sunday, December 18 2011 @ 12:58 AM UTC  
Forum Moderator
Moderator

Status: offline

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 570

Independent of the remarks about pregnancy (and unfortunately, cobblestones -- though FWIW, I do support using them as a reinforcement proxy), my opinion falls with Dizzy and Fred here -- it's one thing to create mental barriers and small sanctuaries; it's another entirely to saunter into a scene where I've got a Popular Television Character on one end of the 'square,' a Popular Video Game Character or two at another, and several dozen varieties of furries passionately concerned about whose wife has gone into a coma and whether that means they can now start fucking so and so. There are certain styles of play that bring me out of suspended disbelief about the Island, so I avoid players who write to that style of play. As the Island grows and supports a kind of player base that's less concerned with Taking The Canon Srsly or writing stories and much more concerned with Getting Their E-Bone On, it means I end up avoiding an increasingly large segment of the population. That's unfortunate, and it's not an uncommon attitude -- which leads to a self-perpetuating cycle where the folks Getting Their E-Bone On are the visible population and so draw in more people that are keen on playing that way.

It comes down to a matter of cross purposes between 'you can't tell anyone how to play make believe' (which I firmly do support) and 'why the fuck is [Contemporary Pop Culture Character] here.' As Sessine notes, those folks are legitimately enjoying themselves. Who are we to impinge on their funsies! What draconian, purse-lipped nonsense that would be, to tell them we are playing pretend in the future where there are no televisions and there are likely all manner of horrific and hilarious Improbable STDs to wreak havoc on their sexytimes, or for the folks who are just derping around, who are we to remind them that they're supposed to be contemplating they came from a post-apocalyptic society.

Those folks will never go away, guys. Some will change. Most will not. And for better or worse, they're part of the community and they're our peers. That said, swinging the trend among the RP community back toward taking the setting seriously and playing to the world is a problem that can be approached in a couple different ways. One is via peer pressure -- make sure your own RP reflects the kind of writing you'd like to see more of. One is passively -- you can hope that as the game becomes more robustly fleshed out with storylines, quests, and writing, etc., people will be reminded more often that they're in an unusual place and should write accordingly. (This is a long tail solution, obviously, and it is not a surefire thing.)

There's another option that I've privately fantasized about on occasion, but it has the potential to create many more problems than it solves -- creating an opt-in Story server for people who are interested in Srs RP. The reasoning is that you'd

-- serve the main version of the Island (i.e., the server we play on now) as the default sign-up server
-- make the story.improbableisland.com server both widely publicized and freely accessible: no hoops to jump through if you want to go over, no matter who you are, and
-- institute an extremely strict one-strike policy for drama, to reduce the burden on the mods created by having two places to overview -- if you're on the story server, you should know how to behave on the Island.

Problems:

-- the people playing to canon would probably for the most part disappear from the main server, reducing the odds of bringing in more folks like them, and further stultifying an already shrinking population
-- it's possible to look at "tracking" the population as a way of differentiating "good" players from "bad" players, which will create drama, when the crux of it is really not so much skill as it is different priorities when playing
-- etc. etc. etc.

Self-selecting groups are already spending more and more time writing off of the Island with the Island's setting and themes in mind, so the Island is theoretically "losing customers" that way. I donno. Big thorny ball of fuckery, it is.


BARK BARK BARK.
 
Profile Email
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Sunday, December 18 2011 @ 03:04 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 585

Don't even entertain the idea, Z. It will create many more problems than it solves.

This game has nowhere near the amount of players it would require to justify splitting the population into separate servers. I'm sorry to sound so flat and blunt, but it's something I feel like I've seen so many times. Creating a separate area for the "serious" players when our current world does NOT feel crowded will create a completely dead server where once in a while you'll have a lengthy conversation between two players who happened to find each other on a lucky night and then complete silence for the next week.

It will happen. And Onslaught and Titans will fuck everything over, unless CMJ modifies those things, and then CMJ will have to spend time modifying those things, and responding to everyone's complaint about this or that in the story server.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Maniak
 Sunday, December 18 2011 @ 10:19 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 298

I like Z's idea of a separate area for serious roleplay writing. But instead of calling it story.improbableisland.com, let's call it AceHigh.

Or any other of the 4 northern outposts that are covered in crickets.


http://maniak.cu.cc/
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
LardDude32
 Sunday, December 18 2011 @ 05:14 PM UTC  
Forum Newbie
Newbie

Status: offline

Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 9

As much as I agree that having a seperate Improbable Island server is a good idea, I agree that Improbable Island doesn't really seem to need it at this moment in time also.
But that doesn't mean that it could be made into a future thing. You never know what might happen.

P.S. Not to be a total party pooper but, what's gonna happen about cobblestones then?


 
Profile Email
Quote
LydiaDefountain
 Sunday, December 18 2011 @ 07:10 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 142

For now I don't see anything implemented too quickly CMJ is workin hard on things and is backloged on bug fixes and petitions.. and the uber super cool new changes to places..

I just don't see this as being high on his priority list.. best way to help the flailing outposts is to try to start up more rp there... they will com if you just loiter a character there.. back before when my main character tended to be looking for rp I'd check the contestant list and then the comms tent looking for a scene I might be interested in bringing my character to...

If you rp they will come.. may take a lot of twiddling your thumbs but we have the comms tent... hey for people who want to fight where there is increased req they can fight in the outer outposts and rp in Kitt from the comms tent.. it's the bantering folks that need to really utilize Global banter more I think.

I never fight in the 'main' outposts unless I have to for Dan quests and even then I'm rather 'gah' about doing it. That maybe a aid to the onslaught too.. have a higher chance of the DanQuest sending you to a higher threat area...

Hey lets all use our cobblestone hoard to help rebuild trains! >.>


 
Profile Email
Quote
LardDude32
 Monday, December 19 2011 @ 11:46 AM UTC  
Forum Newbie
Newbie

Status: offline

Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 9

Quote by: LydiaDefountain

For now I don't see anything implemented too quickly CMJ is workin hard on things and is backloged on bug fixes and petitions.. and the uber super cool new changes to places..



That's understandable, yes, but might as well think up some use for them for the future, eh? Razz

Quote by: LydiaDefountain

Hey lets all use our cobblestone hoard to help rebuild trains! >.>



Trains, huh...?
Maybe people could use them in an effort to build a train station with trains, and then it could run off of req or cobblestones or something, to get people to outposts over a few minutes. Like a one shot teleporter, but it takes about five minutes to get to the nearest outpost or something like that. Not really one of the best ideas, but I've found myself without any days and very low stamina quite a few times when I wanted or needed to be somewhere other than where my character was.
Hmm... Laughing Out Loud


 
Profile Email
Quote
Docenspiel
 Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:38 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 04/12/11
Posts: 184

Trains were around up until a few months ago, and they did work much like a one-shot. You'd have to collect a few playing cards lying about (and there were a number in predetermined Dwellings, which made collection incredibly easy) and when you had five, you'd get a Railpass. Using one Railpass would allow you infinite uses of the trains for that gameday (and often, if you used a chronosphere, that gameday too). But if you happened upon a Joker card, you were able to collect as many cards as you wanted and every multiple of a card would gain you another Pass (which was a First Class Pass, a Pass that allowed you to request a drop-off point). So, with a few weeks of collection, you'd accumulate enough for hundreds of Passes. The only downside to Trains was the very rare case of being dropped off at one of two Dwellings: the Bingo Hall (just one square north of Central and one northwest of the nearest station) or the Abandoned Waystation (out in the middle of nowhere, but a good look through if you've ever read anything Stephen King).

So, train stations, being Dwellings, were knocked down with the rest to be replaced with Places. However, Sessine has taken this time to start working on a newer, much less exploitable system. So the only way Cobblestones could help get them back quicker would be to threaten to throw them at Sessine.


For rent: one skull, in serious need of dusting.
 
Profile Email
Quote
Twosocks Monkey
 Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:41 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 01/28/11
Posts: 246

So, train stations, being Dwellings, were knocked down with the rest to be replaced with Places. However, Sessine has taken this time to start working on a newer, much less exploitable system. So the only way Cobblestones could help get them back quicker would be to threaten to throw them at Sessine.


I imagine throwing stones at Sessine to be a less than desirable activity. For Sessine mostly. It might be fun throwing them, but I doubt it would be fun getting pelted with them.

Big Grin

-Rose


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
LydiaDefountain
 Monday, December 19 2011 @ 02:24 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 142

That last one was mostly a joke idea

I still think some sort of meter would be cool..

like 100mill cobblestones added to the meter drops x amount of crates? maybe perhaps.. or do it as another modifier to the kitty.. instead of the 10% stamina I suppose.. that would both give a use for the cobblestones and encourage people to donate to the kitty... it's win win for CMJ :p


 
Profile Email
Quote
dizzyizzy
 Monday, December 19 2011 @ 04:25 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 503

Quote by: LydiaDefountain


Hey lets all use our cobblestone hoard to help rebuild trains! >.>



Instead of BOINC, I'm going to plug my computer into Sessine and use the spare CPU cycles to help with the programming. Laughing Out Loud


 
Profile Email
Quote
Count Sessine
 Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:45 PM UTC  
Forum Moderator
Moderator

Status: offline

Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 1400

Yikes! **scrambles to dodge**

Seriously... The 'less-exploitable' system will have to be different enough that I'm realizing it wouldn't be fair to let the huge easily-acquired card and pass collections from the earlier version work. Everyone will start off fresh. I'm hoping it'll be an interesting enough new toy that it will be able to console current card tycoons for their loss.

So. When all the card cases suddenly become empty, that will be an early warning sign that replacement Trains are about to return. Mr. Green


 
Profile Email
Quote
Sonny
 Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:00 AM UTC  
Forum Contender
Contender

Status: offline

Registered: 02/20/11
Posts: 52

Nuuuuuuu! Not the cards and train passes! Now that's just plain evil. Cry

My collector heart is weeping.

See my tears.

O, woe is me!

Alas!

...

A medal might be able to give some comfort.... maybe... it's a big blow.

A very big blow.

All this collecting for nothing...

*sniffs*


 
Profile Email
Quote
Twosocks Monkey
 Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:13 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 01/28/11
Posts: 246

I know this is probably the wrong place to put this but Sessine, any chance we will have an RP space in the new trains interface? I always wanted to RP in the old trains and never got a chance to and would REALLY love to be able to when they're restored.

End request.

Big Grin

PS: Pretty please? With sugar and typo gremlins on top?

-Rose


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 04:56 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 585

I've posted my response to Sessine's trains post in a different thread! Look at me, trying not to get this thread OFF TRACK


 
Profile Email
Quote
LardDude32
 Friday, December 23 2011 @ 04:14 PM UTC  
Forum Newbie
Newbie

Status: offline

Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 9

I see what you did there Awesome Fred Wink
But yeah, I hope that this has sparked up some ideas for future development Razz


 
Profile Email
Quote
Anonymous: HasmatX
 Monday, January 09 2012 @ 05:52 AM UTC  


Maybe cobblestones could be used as traps?

Like you can set traps as a log out option and by setting a cobblestone trap (say 1000 to 5000 to set one) At your next game day you can get meat from trapping an animal (1 to 5 pieces depending on the amount used)

It might take a while to impliment, but it would give a use to cobblestone, as well as reinforce the whole survival senario.


 
Quote
Content generated in: 0.76 seconds
New Topic Post Reply



 All times are UTC. The time is now 02:16 PM.

Normal Topic Normal Topic
Locked Topic Locked Topic
Sticky Topic Sticky Topic
New Post New Post
Sticky Topic W/ New Post Sticky Topic W/ New Post
Locked Topic W/ New Post Locked Topic W/ New Post
View Anonymous Posts 
Anonymous users can post 
Filtered HTML Allowed 
Censored Content