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 Crate lists feedback: :-(
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Cadye
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:07 AM UTC (Read 11389 times)  
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So, I don't know how others feel, but for me, the ability to get a list of crate locations really ruins it. It used to be the case that hunting for crates was something you had to commit substantial time and resources to - now you need a few cigarettes and a few extra minutes. So it's a straightforward way for a small number of people to trade cigs for resources, and everyone who's slightly less fast is out of luck.

The upshot will be that all crates have been collected within ten minutes of every new day - it will be a race instead of a hunt, and no-one will ever just get lucky, or be rewarded for devoting effort and stamina to it.

To be clearer: I hate it. If it can't be rolled back, maybe you could get a partial list for cigarettes, leaving some element of skill or chance? Please?


 
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Zolotisty
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:11 AM UTC  
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This, exactly. Frown


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Jon Bishop
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:31 AM UTC  
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This same thought crossed my mind when I saw the update. A great idea, I admit, but it does seem to pull a bit of the spirit out of it.


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:37 AM UTC  
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I was going to start a similar thread when I saw the MOTD. I understand that these crates will be needed to spur the economy if Eboy stops restocking himself, but think about it like this,

Prices are high! Stuff is in Demand!

Contestants have begun moving west with the prospect of wealth in mind to stake out a claim of a search area in which to make their fortune!

There'd be a crate rush, if the prices were high enough. People would recognize the opportunity and run out into the jungles to make a load of reck on hunting.

It's not prospecting if you know where it all is, isn't it?

Maybe if you spend four cigarettes to locate just one crate. Maybe that is appropriate? It kills the spirit of the hunt, and in the first ten minutes of the day, if people rush out to the map to travel to get all the crates before everyone else, doesn't that exclude people with a schedule that varies 2 hours to the earlier or latter?


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Beeker
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:59 AM UTC  
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Agree with these other folks, particularly KK's point about people whose schedules may vary.

I don't intend to use it myself, as that feeling of "ooh! I found one!" would be lost to me. I really enjoy that feeling.

I do appreciate the fact that there are more crates now, as it gives people more opportunities to find them, and dropping more when donations are made is a cool idea.

If it were up to me, I'd remove the crate location info from the comm tent and keep the other changes. That'd be my suggestion.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 02:07 AM UTC  
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Disabled, for now... I'd still like some way for players to get a _rough_ idea of where the crates are, though. I'll have a think about this and continue tomorrow.


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 02:20 AM UTC  
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Thanks Joe.

Maybe just give the location of one Crate at a time?

Or how about a very rough reading of where the some of the crates landed?

I mean, dropping crates by airplane isn't a very exact science.

You could ask Misery Guts, "Where'd it land?" He couldn't say, "22,14, exactly." That's ridiculous, especially with all the improbability whatnot going around. It'd be tossed about. Maybe he could say, "There's one somewhere South of Acehigh." or "We dropped a few in the river," or "Some are floating around the lake." Very unspecific, but still a ballpark on where to go for some of them.


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Beeker
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 03:05 AM UTC  
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Brainstorming:

the Comm Tent could tell you how many crates were out there yet unclaimed, but not tell you their locations?

I still think the "ohboyohboy!" feeling of finding one is worth not knowing where they are. They're just fun!


 
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Sloth
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 08:29 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeker

Brainstorming:

the Comm Tent could tell you how many crates were out there yet unclaimed, but not tell you their locations?

I still think the "ohboyohboy!" feeling of finding one is worth not knowing where they are. They're just fun!



That's a great idea.

In particular, knowing that there are any crates out to get is good enough reason to take a walkabout sometimes, particularly when your Joker Improbability is telling you that jungle fights are a complete waste of stamina today and you should just go for a walk instead.


 
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Pinche Cabron
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 08:32 AM UTC  
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Personally, I liked the crate list, although the crates I found seemed a bit light on the precious energy drinks. I used the map at the height of the Newbstorm (server bogging down). So I decided to log in during the middle of the night, filled up on steak rather than hunt in the jungle, and lo and behold, the crate lists was gone. I didn't even realize it until after I spent a cig checking eboy's prices, which I did not intend to do.

Maybe make the list for half the crates dropped, I dunno. Or have different lists at different outposts. Or have partial lists, and you can pay increasingly more for more lists. Or don't make the lists available until an hour after the start of the New Day, to give those that like it the old way a first shot.

To me, the problem isn't the crates or the crate list, but the prices at eboys. Putting out more crates, and providing a crate list is one solution to this problem, and it's a creative solution with the intention (I'm guessing) of getting more people involved in crate hunting, and more crates found and thus injected into the economy. Maybe the answer is just to put out a lot more crates, without any list. Or maybe just keep eboy directly stocked up when prices reach a certain point.

The other thing that occurs to me is that from a certain perspective, the high prices are not a problem, as it encourages players to buy DP and trade it for req. If that's the motivation, then I'd appreciate hearing it up front. I can roll with a profit motive, especially for someone that works as hard as CMJ.

If that's not the case, shouldn't supplies be somewhat proportional to the amount of players?

EDIT: One important thing I need to get straight. The crate location list is suspended or crate drops are? This is not clear to me from CMJ's post, above.


 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 08:58 AM UTC  
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Having all the items supplied through crate drop is going to make some items inordinately expensive. Energy drinks, for instance: there is no upper limit to the number of energy drinks a character can use. I predict that almost none of the ones found on the map will be sold back to eBoy's. Rather, they'll be kept and used by the lucky finders.

If eBoy doesn't get a daily supply in, pretty soon he'll have almost none to sell.


 
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Cadye
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 09:18 AM UTC  
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CMJ, whatever you decide to do, thanks for listening.


 
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Pinche Cabron
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 10:02 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Having all the items supplied through crate drop is going to make some items inordinately expensive. Energy drinks, for instance: there is no upper limit to the number of energy drinks a character can use. I predict that almost none of the ones found on the map will be sold back to eBoy's. Rather, they'll be kept and used by the lucky finders.

If eBoy doesn't get a daily supply in, pretty soon he'll have almost none to sell.



Basic capitalism, really. People will hoard energy drinks in the face of scarcity. I know I am (but selling everything else). Why should I sell them today if I can expect the price to go up tomorrow, when I might need them or can sell them for greater profits. We need an Energy Drink STIMULUS. Heh.


 
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Zekiel
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:15 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Pinche+Cabron

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Having all the items supplied through crate drop is going to make some items inordinately expensive. Energy drinks, for instance: there is no upper limit to the number of energy drinks a character can use. I predict that almost none of the ones found on the map will be sold back to eBoy's. Rather, they'll be kept and used by the lucky finders.

If eBoy doesn't get a daily supply in, pretty soon he'll have almost none to sell.



Basic capitalism, really. People will hoard energy drinks in the face of scarcity. I know I am (but selling everything else). Why should I sell them today if I can expect the price to go up tomorrow, when I might need them or can sell them for greater profits. We need an Energy Drink STIMULUS. Heh.


Exactly. Energy Drink prices will go up. By a lot, probably, too. But what little Energy Drinks -are- sold back are done so at a great benefit to the finder. So from now on people will be paying what Energy Drinks are worth to them, rather than to eBoy.

EDIT: The only thing in the way of supporting a player-ran economy is the difference between eBoy's buying and selling prices. With the same stock, selling an item to eBoy will net you only about 70% of what he sells it for. Suppose the entire playerbase happens to agree the value of an Energy Drink is 2000 R, certainly nothing less. The lucky finders will sell their drinks to eBoy until he coughs up less than 2 grand each, but eBoy will still charge about 2800 R for them... This makes gathering your own Energy Drinks, rather than playing through eBoy, much more worthwhile. Which in turn increases the nerf-factor on people that can't fit an exact start-of-day into their schedules.


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K.K. Victoria
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:32 PM UTC  
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Then a question and a suggestion...

First question, Don't the prices in eBoy's go down after a while?

-Suggestion.

Remember that guy who OD'd on energy drinks? Had a heart attack, died? There should definitely be a ceiling on the amount of energy drinks one can have in a day. Or maybe you'd pass out later, you know?

Hell, it comes in a ROCKET can! It has to kill you if you drink enough!

ROCKET CAN!


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Tremir
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:34 PM UTC  
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How about adding a new mount that helps crate seekers instead of a simple list in the comm tent?
Something that doesn't give combat bonuses, or give very few of them, but reduces stamina costs for traveling, and have it bark when you're traveling and within 2 or 3 squares from a crate, and point out the direction.
This'll help crate hunters find crates, without making it too easy, and at the cost of a more combat-effective mount.


 
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Zolotisty
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:48 PM UTC  
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I do and don't agree there should be an upper-limit on Energy Drink consumption! I don't agree because it's about the only way Jokers, Robots and Gobots can get extra stam, and that's still a sort of fuckered situation wherein every other race enjoys the two-to-three Mutant steak benefit and I get to scuffle around with my variable learning ability and my variable stam buffs and my VERY FIXED available stam.

..At the same time..

As KK mentioned, Zolotisty should've had a heart attack AGES ago from all of the caffeine and taurine and essence of cocaine in those drinks. That, or everyone who drinks a lot of them routinely should burst like great big water balloons in a shower of pee because if you chug eighty ounces, it's gombe goin' somewhere.

It is totally true that people don't sell their EDs back.

Perhaps instead of the upper limit on drink consumption (or if there IS an upper limit, please pretty please make it racially based?), we can actually make good on that ROCKET CAN and make EDs heavy little bastards. Discourage people from carrying or hoarding a bunch.


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 03:30 PM UTC  
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Interesting ideas, here.

This is all still up in the air, so don't take this as set in stone, but what if...

Crates:
Base newday rate set to 0. Donation bonus vastly increased (10 Crates per dollar). The benefit of this is that it makes the crate drop times privileged information. Only the donator (and anyone who bothers to check the Donations bar constantly) knows when Crates has dropped - and if the donator wants to tell their clan, or perhaps even co-ordinate things so that everyone in the clan is online just before he makes a donation, then that's up to them.

Crates/Comms:
"The planes always fly from South to North, and always five at a time. Each Crate has a spring-loaded tracking device inside that sends out a "ping" when the crate is opened, so we know when someone's found a crate - and when you watch as closely as I do, you can count the crates that have been dropped versus the crates that have been found. The crates tend to get buffered around and land within two klicks East or West of the plane's overhead route. For %s cigarettes, I can tell you how many Crates can be found in each five-klick North-South strip, and how many crates there are in total. I wish I could be more exact, but it'll at least give you a rough idea of where's good to go prospecting today."

Outputs:
1-5: %s
5-10: %s
15-20: %s
20-25: %s
Total crates: %s

Tells the player which five-square vertical strip on the map is the juiciest that day.

Energy Drinks:
Well, damn it, they should be expensive. Smile There's no upper limit on how many you can use in a day, so the cost is the varying factor. I could apply a greater weight, but because their use is unlimited, folks would just drink them rather than carry them around.
I'm not a fan of hard limits - they take away choice from the player. A soft limit, one that varies according to how risky the player wants to play things, now... that's more interesting. Perhaps we could do something with a "Caffeine Shakes" debuff, or even a mild addiction / effects resistance penalty (like with smoking, only perhaps not quite so vicious). We need to limit their use, but we need to do so in a way that's fun, variable, and a way that gives the player more decisions to make instead of taking decisions away.


 
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Anonymous: Massic
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 04:05 PM UTC  


Quote by: Tremir

How about adding a new mount that helps crate seekers instead of a simple list in the comm tent?
Something that doesn't give combat bonuses, or give very few of them, but reduces stamina costs for traveling, and have it bark when you're traveling and within 2 or 3 squares from a crate, and point out the direction.
This'll help crate hunters find crates, without making it too easy, and at the cost of a more combat-effective mount.



I like this idea, as it will enforce more of a specialist approach to crate hunting and hopefully even things out, although it would probably be best if the crate detection was the only bonus it confered. That being said, IMO prices are inflating enough as it is (with the notable exception of IB's, which are now a player generated commodity, and ration packs which for the most part are ignored in favor of more efficient methods of stamina enhancement) and removing Eboy's generation of his own stock will only compound that.


 
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Beeker
 Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 04:39 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

what if...

Crates:
Base newday rate set to 0. Donation bonus vastly increased (10 Crates per dollar). The benefit of this is that it makes the crate drop times privileged information. Only the donator (and anyone who bothers to check the Donations bar constantly) knows when Crates has dropped - and if the donator wants to tell their clan, or perhaps even co-ordinate things so that everyone in the clan is online just before he makes a donation, then that's up to them.



Interesting idea. Seems like it would help with the problem of people whose playtimes don't correspond with the start of newdays, and I like that aspect of it.

Quote by: CavemanJoe


Crates/Comms:
"The planes always fly from South to North, and always five at a time. Each Crate has a spring-loaded tracking device inside that sends out a "ping" when the crate is opened, so we know when someone's found a crate - and when you watch as closely as I do, you can count the crates that have been dropped versus the crates that have been found. The crates tend to get buffered around and land within two klicks East or West of the plane's overhead route. For %s cigarettes, I can tell you how many Crates can be found in each five-klick North-South strip, and how many crates there are in total. I wish I could be more exact, but it'll at least give you a rough idea of where's good to go prospecting today."



Not as sure about this idea. Though I agree it can be made realistic ("we have tracking devices"), for me it would still detract from the "ooooooh, a present!" feature of crate hunting. To me, this is a valuable feature, and I'd hate to see it reduced. I'd prefer the suggestion I made above, where the info you can get is about how many crates are still available. Maybe have that be a per-day thing: pay once, and for the rest of that day you may visit the tent as many times as you like and ask how many crates are still out there. I'm not, mind, saying that this is the only solution! Just thinking out loud, really. Or, uh, typing. Or something. Anyway, I do prefer this strip idea to the exact location info that was available yesterday; it's just I'm still not sure giving location information adds to the fun of crate-hunting.

And, as Cadye says, ultimately this is CMJ's decision, and I appreciate that you're willing to let me babble on about my ideas on the matter!


 
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