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 Some feedback on invasions (LONG post!)
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Hairy Mary
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 01:08 AM UTC  
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Quote by: calliaphone

Quote by: Hairy+Mary


A few minor issues. Calli first.
Suggestion 4. (Monsters over-running outposts.) That is in fact the case.



I've seen quite a few occasions in IC when the walls hit zero, the threat level was max, and no monsters came, it just stayed like that, the walls hovering around the zero mark for ages. It was very different in NP, when the place was totally overrun - no options available except fight/build/run like hell. I still haven't figured out how IC got away with it, but it made very baffling play!



Yep, I have actually seen similar things myself. I was wondering if anything happened at all. Glad I've seen a full on invasion so now I know. Maybe there's a small amount of leaway that IC and others managed to just stay within.


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 01:14 AM UTC  
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I'm in full agreement with everything that has been said already, and I want to reinforce further the idea that the reinforcement ability will go beyond the level 100 that it is right now, so that we are not only able to do it more, but able to do it more effectively.

(That goes for every other skill. According to Cuthbert's,

"Higher levels in Insults skills will also improve your chances of casting successful Insults, and reduce the chances of fumbling."

Is that really the case? It's kind of hard to tell...)


"You saved Pineapple!"
 
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Bakemaster
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 01:17 AM UTC  
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I've definitely seen a fast improvement in my frequency of success with insults in the teens relative to when I was starting out.


Unofficial Improbable Island out-of-character chat is at irc.foonetic.net, channel #iisland - come on by!
 
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Adder Moray
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 01:18 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Quote by: Adder+Moray

The frequency is amazingly strenuous.

Between Pyre Kasen and myself, we have managed to hold SH throughout the break. But today, Pyre's player went back to classes, and I had to pack for going back myself. The day life as usual resumes, Squat Hole comes down.

We need far more lulls now that the real world is coming back.



That's a wee bit strong there Adder. Yes you, Pyre, and possibly some other AiB's did a great deal, but not all by yourself. Biggs put a lot into keeping up the barricades believe it or not, (and you've got every reason not to, given the way role play was going) he's now got reinforce skills level 70, so he did something. Yes, I appreciate that you were a vital part of the defence, possibly even a majority of the effort, and that the Hole would probably have fallen a lot sooner without you. But not all by yourself, there were others as well.



Sorry. My point wasn't that we were the only people defending it, it was that it would seem the only reason it hadn't been breached yet is because it had two people who could sit around during the day making sure it didn't. The instant real life comes back, it goes down. My point is that no one is going to be able to watch it like that for much longer, so the frequency needs to come down.

Again, sorry for making my statement seem like I'm saying we were the only ones defending the place.


 
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Adder Moray
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 01:52 AM UTC  
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I seem to have hit quote instead of edit.


 
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tehdave
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 02:08 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Adder+Moray

We need far more lulls



^That. Even without the "now that the real world is coming back" part. It's just stressful. Although knocking yourself out with a hammer is a fun way to get yourself on the Failboat, but you could do that even with the outpost at no alert.


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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Beeker
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 02:11 AM UTC  
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What Calli said.

I don't want to complain about the idea of the Onslaught, because the concept is cool and has led to some good things.

But the execution is making me miserable.

I could go on, but it would just be a repeat of what others have said. Let me just say: yeah, what they said.


 
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crashtestpilot
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 02:46 AM UTC  
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I agree with prior input.
My two cents:
a) There's no clan hook, and thereby, no bragging rights. If a clan can band together to defend an outpost, that means something.
b) There's no individual player hook: If a hero saves a city, there ought to be SOMETHING, other than a higher action skill in the HOF.
c) This one's a more anecdotal observation: Right now, NP is a quest city for me. Getting into NP is hard (burned two chronospheres on trying to get into the city. Managed to nail up a few boards). Ought to be a badge if you enter a city with 0 and get it up to a few hundred HPs, despite a breach.

Ultimately, onslaught is a big stam burn: People are naturally defending the best food source (PV) which as of this writing has about 2.7m HPs. The rest are falling like shantytowns before a bulldozer. Is there anything we get in exchange for such a stamburn? No, beyond an action skill.
Most players are going to go about their business, particularly if they're more motivated by DKing or Questing.

Keeping cities open without bragging rights for players or clans is sort of an altruism test. Few shall pass it.

That's my take.

Like the idea; execution needs tweakage, IMO.

~CTP


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 03:55 AM UTC  
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Few shall pass it? Hardly.

DICE has been doing that the entire time, no real complaints there.

Why do you need some instant gratification for doing something to benefit the island? Being a hero is largely a thankless job.

Besides, who would give you the badge? "Oh, here's some recognition for doing something that saves yourself from being slaughtered by an assault of monsters. I suppose doing that also consequently helps us, but still. Thanks."

You're also discounting the likelihood that others who aren't in the clan aren't helping the war effort as well. Which, happens very often.


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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 05:34 AM UTC  
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Well, hey... if we can get a medal for visiting the kissing booth, KK, there's no real reason we shouldn't be able to get one for defending an outpost with our life's blood. Big Grin A bit of recognition does wonders to boost morale.


 
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Beeker
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 05:54 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

A bit of recognition does wonders to boost morale.



It's possible that's so, but my morale right now is so low that I would look at a box full of shiny badges with sad, sad eyes.


 
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Daedalus
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 06:09 AM UTC  
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MHO:

1. As stated by others above, the frequency and intensity of the Onslaughts is bit overweight. It is overbearing 'normal' RP and gameplay, and like some others, I'm finding it stressful enough to reduce my pleasure in playing.

2. Level 1 and perhaps 2 contestants should not be returned from failboat to an over-run city. You just get burned over and over.

3. When a city is over-run, it should be possible to 'travel' out of the surrounding jungle. i.e not have to go back into the city to access travel. This is, again, particularly relevant at lower levels.

4. Was it anticipated that there would be contestants actively wanting to see posts over-run, so they can go in and score huge Exp points? This is already happening*, and seem undesirable to me. Players taking that recourse are going to advance much quicker than those who don't.

And again like others, I do actually like the feature, I just think it needs some tweaking.

D.

*Ref: chat in Kittania about 45 minutes prior to this post.


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Booya
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 08:33 AM UTC  
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4. Was it anticipated that there would be contestants actively wanting to see posts over-run, so they can go in and score huge Exp points? This is already happening*, and seem undesirable to me. Players taking that recourse are going to advance much quicker than those who don't.


Here's another complaint and a possible solution.

When an outpost is under attack (but not overrun), is my understanding correct that when you fight in the jungle, you're fighting the monsters which are attacking the outpost? If so, two issues: First - it is very unclear if this is the case. Second, and more importantly...

The outpost is under an active siege, so why should I have to use stamina to look for trouble in that area? I should be able to just step outside the outpost walls and get attacked by monsters, just as if the walls had fallen completely.

So my suggestion is: We should be able to "join the fight" regardless of whether the outpost has been overrun. This makes more sense and (imho) would be more fun. It would encourage contestants to join the battle before the outpost is overrun, and it would remove anyone's incentive to let the walls fall.


 
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crashtestpilot
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 09:05 AM UTC  
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Quote by: K.K.+Victoria

Few shall pass it? Hardly.

DICE has been doing that the entire time, no real complaints there.

Why do you need some instant gratification for doing something to benefit the island? Being a hero is largely a thankless job.

Besides, who would give you the badge? "Oh, here's some recognition for doing something that saves yourself from being slaughtered by an assault of monsters. I suppose doing that also consequently helps us, but still. Thanks."

You're also discounting the likelihood that others who aren't in the clan aren't helping the war effort as well. Which, happens very often.



To respond:

A) Good on DICE, you, others.
Cool I don't need instant gratification. I do believe others might (ref: Sessine's folo up, which paraphrased, is recognition does wonders for morale).
C) I don't know who would give me the badge. I don't need badges. I perhaps have two. My pleasure in the game is found in coordination of groups, and looking at game design. Also exploring, and having a well-edited MOTD. I am the polar opposite of a powerplayer. But I do understand them.
D) I grant you that non-affiliated players may help the war effort.

What I was trying to say is that I'd like a hook for individuals and clans for achievements during invasions. I think it would incentivize players to do stuff. And as a clan coordinator, it would help me incent clans to defend specific outposts. That's all I'm really trying to say. At this point, many players I talk to regularly who are after bright and shiny/badges/HoF status are looking at invasions as...well...a distraction from what they're trying to do in-game.
Despite DICE's fantastic example of altruism, not everyone plays like that. I'm looking for ways to make invasions more persuasive a task to engage in. I will say that the experience boost for fighting in an invasion is nothing short of awesome. Perhaps that will be sufficient.
But as of this writing, two cities are down, and more are on the way to feeling the same fate.
That speaks to me of the need to incentivize non-affiliated players, and clans.
Oh, and BTW, getting into a breached city and nailing up some boards is difficult, at least for me. I thought that would be an interesting achievement event -- possibly badge-worthy, possibly worthy of some other in-game hook.

None of this is to detract from what motivates you, or any other player. I'm exclusively looking at this from a game design standpoint, with an eye to maximizing participation, and making it fun.

Yours,

~CTP


 
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PyreKasen
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 12:42 PM UTC  
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I feel much the same as everyone else in this This started out as fun, but now is becoming stressful. It was a great way for me to RP Pyre more and he does well in war situations regardless, but there's always pressure, both in character and out of character. My problem is even bigger; I'm a European player and am often on early. If I see the Squat Hole under attack at 1 PM, there's usually only one or two clan members on-line and an equal amount of people in the Squat Hole; I sort of feel like I'm defending the place alone at times like that. There has been one point when I went through a total of EIGHT NewDays in 4 hours to help keep things up and running, the last half hour spent just reinforcing the walls over and over with Adder (Most others were out of stamina), hoping for cavalry to arrive at NewDay. (And it did! Many thanks to g_rock, Kestrel, Pied Piper, Nathaniel and all others who helped at this point.) It was almost cinematic.

I felt elated at this point, true... Also hungry, since I'd had to delay breakfast for 5 hours. And my fingers hurt from fighting over a thousand monsters.

Also, right now, IC is, well, screwed. And there's 22 people on-line. If it's overrun, I can't help, I'm level 1.

So yes, I support longer lulls, concentrated attacks (Only one outpost at a time), quicker reinforcing and perhaps clearer indications of how much peace an outpost'll have. Also, perhaps some scaling to the amount of players on-line - if that doesn't exist, yet - and a defence network channel so we don't have to disturb people in the CG with our panic messages.

Also, between the ton of exp you get in a breech and the high level you need to be to be useful thanks to the non-scaling monsters, there's usually only a very small window between being too long level to help and being so high levelled you risk being carried of to the Drive. I fought for three days to get to a level where I was useful and was at level 15 half a day later... Fortunately, I wasn't forced to face the drive until after the place was safe. By this time, though, I had over 200k exp.


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 12:52 PM UTC  
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Well, to me it sounded like,

"I've been fighting long and hard for so long! Where is my cookie?"

-The response would have to be, "Well, the baker's over there dying/fighting for their life/engaged in the defense/rallying the troops. You'll have to go without. Sorry."


"You saved Pineapple!"
 
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Hairy Mary
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 02:29 PM UTC  
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I think a better paraphrasing would be, some players work better with cookies, so lets give them a few. My take is that I'm going for it without cookies, but if some were being given out then I wouldn't say no.


 
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PyreKasen
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 03:02 PM UTC  
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On a sidenote, is it just me or has the lag seriously ramped up since Onslaught began?


 
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Skidge
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 03:32 PM UTC  
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Um, what everyone....else....said..........came a bit late to the party.

I play a happy stupid silly little character, and throwing her into a war has been fun and I really do like the idea. But.

I don't know if I'm the only one who on occasion spent entire New Days just RPing and talking to people only to suddenly realize whoops! Another NewDay! Gotta waste stam fighting for the last five minutes of this day! Maybe I am. I am primarily a roleplayer, with the mechanics of the game (well, the fighting angle anyway) taking a rather distant second place. Not so anymore, and that's actually not a thing I'm complaining about; our characters are in a war, in theory they've always been in a war, and being forced to realize that is actually very awesome.

But, um, now I spend all of my New Day fighting, then pulling out a Chronosphere, then spending all that new day fighting, then pulling out a Chronosphere...and I don't RP, because what kind of jerk would dance about being an idiot while their city is burning around them?

I am, quite abruptly, turning into a powerplayer simply because I'm sick of Failing every five minutes. I'm turning into the grumpy mean person I am at work because it feels like work, and believe me when I say I get quite enough of work at work. It's not why I come here, that's for sure.

In conclusion, mmmmmm. Cookies. **goes to eat some oreos even though it's 9:30 AM**


 
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Tyr
 Tuesday, January 12 2010 @ 04:03 PM UTC  
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It's not just you. Which, of course, only adds to the panic and stress when Ace High's got zero hp and oh god would the page just load already!

Ahem.

Hi, my name's Tyr, and I'm a speedrunner, and an RPer, Neither of which I've felt free to do since Onslaught started. It feels selfish and bad to do anything but pour stam into the walls and fight in the jungle. What's that? Doesn't a lot of jungle fighting mean it would be easy to speed? Not if you're living on ratpacks in 404, and playing anything but a midget so you'll be able to run halfway across the map when an outpost's in trouble. I spent 8 new days yesterday trying to keep 404 up, and felt terrible when I finally had to go to bed, cause I knew there was a good chance it was going to fall any second. This is a game! I play it for fun!

I know that my way of playing isn't the way that everyone plays the game. But I feel like I'm not playing Improbable Island anymore. I'm playing Onslaught, and I don't like this game very much. Yes, it's an interesting concept. But it's not fun. It could be, with some changes. Longer lulls are a must. Having only one or two outposts being attacked at a time would be great. And I like the idea of false positives - as long as it become obvious rather quickly that the world is not actually ending, and we can go about our business. Hell, feints would be cool. The warning level spikes in Squat Hole, only for the monsters to attack Kittania once everyone's run to defend SH.

And you know what? I do want something shiny to show for my efforts: walls that stay up for more than 10 minutes before everything goes to hell again.

Suggestion: give Reinforcement a lower limit as well as an upper one. It drives me crazy to have a maxed out skill, and still have times when I put 2 hp on the walls.


 
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