Enquirer Home Page | Twitter | Back to Improbable Island

 Forum Index > Season Two > Feature Requests, Ideas and Feedback New Topic Post Reply
 Implant Suggestions
 |  Printable Version
Anonymous: Sneaky the Supervillain
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 05:12 AM UTC (Read 2499 times)  



Basic post for now. Please don't hate me for it. This is a hatchling idea, and my first forum post makes me a bit nervous no matter how many times I do it. I intend to put flavor text, but again, nervousness. Bear with me.

These are suggestions for new implants to be added to the game. I do not know how to code very well, but I would love it if these were given a field test. They pull from the point system used in Spatial Awareness. I recommend that more points than 5 at level 15 be given to that (and the two i'm going to suggest.) I hope you enjoy them, and I am eager to explain them.

The Spy Watch - Has a (tentative evil corporation name here) logo on it. Appears to be a bulky, digital sports wristwatch. Guaranteed to survive in water for up to thirty minutes with no ill effects, at which point it's guaranteed to selfdestruct on the user with the force of a Twilight fangirl flamewar. More than enough not enough time for budding agents to make a final, desperate swim for the mainland when the heat's on.

2 points per day at level 1, finish with 7 points per day at level 15. Preferably more; I want to encourage regular use.

Snatch - 1 point. 10-round buff. Generates Requisition for you based on the weapon damage you deal in a turn, including ripostes. Lasts between battles, but not between new days.

Pressure Points - 2 points. Same as the Spatial Awareness buff.

Holographic Copy - 2 points. 3 round buff. Causes a light-based, convincing hologram of you to appear. It cannot attack or make any noise, but it does confuse your enemy into chasing it from time to time. It's so convincing that it fools the foe into thinking it can deal actual damage, and does about one half what a WHOOMPH! Grenade would do in a given turn. The two stack.

Flickering Lights - 2 points. 3-round buff. This function causes the display on your watch to flash with a horrid, rapidly blinking white light. Reduces enemy's fighting ability as if they were hit by a Monster Repellent Spray attack (as they are suffering a seizure).

Cloaking Device - 3 points. 10-round buff. Increases Defense by half the amount Nimble currently does. Increases flee chance by 1.5x.

Electric Fist - 4 points. 10-round buff. Increases attack by the same amount Pressure Points would have. The enemy has a 25% chance of being stunned (as a ZAP! Grenade) for a given turn.

Selfdestruct - 6 points. Overclocking time (geddit?). Spit onto your own watch, short-circuiting it (contrary to the above advert). Your fist crackles with surging power. With haste, you rush to grapple your foe, dealing 10x the damage. Take heed, for this is not StandStill in the slightest; oh no. If you failed to kill the foe by the end of your next turn, you are dealt ((your current level + your DK count, minimum 1) * 10) in direct damage.

I'll put up the second implant in a bit. I know this format might be confusing, i'll get right on that.


 
Quote
Anonymous: Sneaky the Supervillain
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 05:13 AM UTC  



Extra post. Most forums don't mind; I hope this is no exception.


 
Quote
Akogi
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 05:42 AM UTC  
Forum Badass
Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 76

There were more implants of a similar nature to Spatial Awareness during Season 1. There was even a random encounter with Foilwench to make them more powerful.

I didn't particularly like how they were set up though compared to how the implants are done in this season.

Also as an FYI, with this forum, you only have a small window of time to edit your posts.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Anonymous: Sneaky the Supervillain
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 05:48 AM UTC  


Quote by: Akogi

There were more implants of a similar nature to Spatial Awareness during Season 1. There was even a random encounter with Foilwench to make them more powerful.

I didn't particularly like how they were set up though compared to how the implants are done in this season.

Also as an FYI, with this forum, you only have a small window of time to edit your posts.



Well I admittedly haven't played in Season One, so I can't tell if i'm doing it that way or not. |Confused

Just to be clear, I very much want to see more implants using this simple, use-point system. I just want to have more uses for it per day. I'm a level 15 Human with 5 points, and they can go into searching for money (nevermind the drive, that's not the point here), attacking better and defending better, or a one-shot time stop. That's it.

I don't want to see them get more powerful by external factors (except maybe from an exceedingly difficult duel boss), just to up the rate gained from leveling up. Smile


 
Quote
Akogi
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 03:03 PM UTC  
Forum Badass
Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 76

I'm well aware of what spatial awareness does since I used to take for every DK before I got more of a selection of implants. I believe that spatial awareness only has 5 points to keep req inflation down, because at the higher levels you can get an additional 2-4k extra req a day. If you had more charges in the implant then you could possible afford a cat launcher during every DK without having to donate or travelling if you were willing to spend the time wasting it on new days.

Wait until you have a few more DKs under your belt before you start suggesting any new implants, you might find that you like the servo arms or the skull mounted laser implants better than the spatial awareness one. Though they have less options, you can use the implants a lot more.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Anonymous: Sneaky the Noob Engineer
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 04:07 PM UTC  


Quote by: Akogi

I'm well aware of what spatial awareness does since I used to take for every DK before I got more of a selection of implants. I believe that spatial awareness only has 5 points to keep req inflation down, because at the higher levels you can get an additional 2-4k extra req a day. If you had more charges in the implant then you could possible afford a cat launcher during every DK without having to donate or travelling if you were willing to spend the time wasting it on new days.

Wait until you have a few more DKs under your belt before you start suggesting any new implants, you might find that you like the servo arms or the skull mounted laser implants better than the spatial awareness one. Though they have less options, you can use the implants a lot more.



You didn't even say anything about my suggestion yet. I'm looking for advice on the effects i've described, but you're giving me nothing to work with here. I regret that I can't edit the post, as I want to change the cloak one to work outside of battle (as a monster repellent spray effect, but not perfect). Yes, I don't know if any effects here are duplicated in other implants, aside from Pressure Points (it seemed thematically appropriate to add). You very well might. I'm seeking much-needed feedback.


 
Quote
Anonymous: Evan OConnell
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 04:25 PM UTC  


Hopefully this isn't a completely useless reply. I haven't been playing long enough to have a good sense of a lot of the buffs and stats but from what I'm reading this sounds like it would bee a little too good.

Like I said though, so far I've only tried the spatial awareness implant, so I'm not very knowledgeable on what is normal for the implants.

I like the idea of 'Snatch' it sounds a bit pick pocket-esq.

The Hologram, Flickering Lights and Cloaking Device all seem a bit over powered to me, maybe one of the three of them would be good. Together though (even if you can't afford to use more then one of them per day) seems like too much to me.

I think Selfdestruct could be fun. If I'm reading it right it has a pretty good chance to fail right?...and Fail epically. I think that goes pretty well with the spirit of most power moves on the island, making it risky.

Hope that's even a little helpful!


 
Quote
Kash
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 04:38 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 149

I'll courageously critique your suggestion, if you like:

It does a lot of things that are already being done, but none of them as well as the originals. Except Self Destruct, which sounds kind of fun, but ultimately pretty useless... if you're taking on a foe powerful enough that you need to use Self-Destruct to defeat, most people are probably not going to appreciate the high likelihood that it is instead going to kill only them.

"Snatch" could become ridiculously overpowered especially at higher levels/ranks, because once someone can afford a plasma gun and a Gargleblaster, they could rake in potentially tens of thousands of req per use... unless you made it so weak as to be nigh useless at lower levels instead. Since in its current concept it ties to damage dealt, it will only be as balanced as the people using it... which is unlikely to be balanced at all.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Anonymous: Sneaky the Noob Engineer
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 05:18 PM UTC  



Thank you Evan and Kash. Very much.

To both of you, keep in mind that i'm not trying to make an all-powerful implant, only a suitable alternative. If players are going to pick a different implant (effectively a different class in a game like this), they need to understand that means passing up the powers of a would-be implant for something different.

I only want Snatch to be affected by normal weapon damage, meaning basic strikes and ripostes. It won't be affected by overkill damage (wasted damage dealt when the foe is knocked out), nor will it be affected by bonus damage dealt from knocking down a Target (though money is still accrued out of normally fighting that target.) I'm starting to think I should up its usage to 2, but I do want the petty thefts to begin from early levels. (It would, if I can get two use points to begin with at level 1.)

To Evan: Yes, Selfdestruct is only a damage buff. If you miss your strike, it's wasted (and you best flee the battle next turn, or you will take heavy damage). It seemed more appropriate than planting a claymore explosive and fleeing, and if that's what the player winds up doing anyway if they didn't win, so be it. You're a saboteur, not an up-front paladin. I'll get back to you on the three you say I should cut down on; i'm wondering what to do with them, or if I should do anything.

To Kash: Dealing ten rounds worth of damage in the space of one turn is a very useful maneuver. You could even get a power move, and that damage is decupled (though the move would probably have to default your damage to that of a minor power move. Probably. No leaning on that one.) It's like when you've got 30 HP left, you're facing down a Malfunctioning Robot, and you could just win if you get lucky with your very last Improbability Bomb. It's decisions like that which I want to evoke; you expect to die, but at least you sure won't talk. ((I ask politely that you don't try and tell me you find the Factory monsters easy. That ignores the point.))

I wonder what both of you thought of Pressure Points and Electric Fist. You could stack them, yes, but that presents the valid dilemma of losing points fast. It's like having only 5 points to stack Pressure Points and Nimble.


 
Quote
Kash
 Thursday, May 06 2010 @ 10:07 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 149

Snatch would still be an exploit risk on strong enemies like, say, Titans. A seasoned veteran who has invested 100 DKs worth of bonus points into attack, invested the cash into a Plasma Gun and a Gargleblaster or two and One-Shotted to a Titan could easily do 100k HPs of non-"overkill" of damage, which would be massive amounts of cash... unless you powered down the ability by, say, a factor of ten... at which point the level five Rookie wielding a prosthetic arm would get pocket change from it at best. This is the sort of imbalance I was referring to.

As far as Self-Destruct goes, do you mean for it to be ten rounds (individually rolled) of damage as you said in your last post, or "10x" (one roll, multiplied) as in your original post? Individually rolled damage is basically just Standstill again with an added deterrent to using it at all. Multiplied damage has a very low "success" rate in theory, since the amount of damage done is very variable even for high-attack players... yes, it could be very useful, if your roll happens to do at least 10% of the enemy's health. If you miss or if the roll is too low then it's basically a suicide attack, and given that you'd only be using this sensibly in dire situations like the one you described, this ability would only be used in about one out of every hundred battles (being generous for experienced players!) and will only be helpful in half or less of those.

Regarding Pressure Points: it seems a bit out-of-theme for a device that is worn on your wrist... how is a watch going to help you hit pressure points in the same way that heightened mental acuity would? On the same note, the Self-Destruct mechanism is a bit strange... if you manage to kill your opponent, does the watch not self-destruct anymore? And how does that work? I would think, at least for consistency of schema, that the watch would have to self-destruct anyway, which would be another reason for people to never use that ability.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Anonymous: Sneaky the Noob Engineer
 Friday, May 07 2010 @ 02:23 AM UTC  



Quote by: Kash

Snatch would still be an exploit risk on strong enemies like, say, Titans. A seasoned veteran who has invested 100 DKs worth of bonus points into attack, invested the cash into a Plasma Gun and a Gargleblaster or two and One-Shotted to a Titan could easily do 100k HPs of non-"overkill" of damage, which would be massive amounts of cash... unless you powered down the ability by, say, a factor of ten... at which point the level five Rookie wielding a prosthetic arm would get pocket change from it at best. This is the sort of imbalance I was referring to.



Well by that point, consider that you've got someone who one-shotted a one hundred thousand HP monster meant for multiple people to swing at and making 101k of requistion anyway; forget pocket change you'll lose on a Drive Kill, your players are ready to sink the FailBoat straight to itself; you've got bigger stuff to worry about. Unless you're referring to the one-shot being from Selfdestruct. You probably shouldn't consider that one weapon damage as far as gaining money goes; even the least finessed of thieves can't possibly profit from blowing up their would-be treasure.

However, this is still a tool for constant money stealing, and the fact that you can go from battle to battle and steal from different monsters was the very intention. If a limit to the money the monster's going to give up is necessary, I suggest it's whatever the player's max HP is. They can't steal more than that from a particular monster, and the rounds continue to count down and be wasted until they win (or flee) and fight something else. If you focus all of this energy on just one monster, you will make less than you would from a single Requisition search, but even then you still have the option of running with your stash (just like with an Improbability Bomb's money reward.)

Quote by: Kash

As far as Self-Destruct goes, do you mean for it to be ten rounds (individually rolled) of damage as you said in your last post, or "10x" (one roll, multiplied) as in your original post? Individually rolled damage is basically just Standstill again with an added deterrent to using it at all. Multiplied damage has a very low "success" rate in theory, since the amount of damage done is very variable even for high-attack players... yes, it could be very useful, if your roll happens to do at least 10% of the enemy's health. If you miss or if the roll is too low then it's basically a suicide attack, and given that you'd only be using this sensibly in dire situations like the one you described, this ability would only be used in about one out of every hundred battles (being generous for experienced players!) and will only be helpful in half or less of those.



It's a 10x multiplier to what you would have done had you taken a swing, yes. But between the plasma gun and that really expensive booze, you make it sound like high-level players are never desperate, and don't really need to use implants in the first place. You don't even have to use this solely when you're in the red; it's meant to give the player the invitation to finish the battle faster (as if when a Moose is sniping you, you're at half HP with it, you've been taking a lot of power moves and were thinking far ahead that you should run), and a chance to drop the watch and run if they mess it up. This is an implant for early gameplay, i'm going to make that clear now, and if newer players find more use out of it for a while, so be it.

Quote by: Kash

Regarding Pressure Points: it seems a bit out-of-theme for a device that is worn on your wrist... how is a watch going to help you hit pressure points in the same way that heightened mental acuity would? On the same note, the Self-Destruct mechanism is a bit strange... if you manage to kill your opponent, does the watch not self-destruct anymore? And how does that work? I would think, at least for consistency of schema, that the watch would have to self-destruct anyway, which would be another reason for people to never use that ability.



Forget that it's worn on your wrist, remember that it's a tool to assist rogues and thieves, whom are likely to seek out weak points anyway. It could even be a stabbing implement that juts out of the watch and does off-hand damage (the name Sneak Attack would probably be more appropriate). I want to know if this is mechanically sound.

You still haven't commented on Electric Fist; it's meant to be the same attack boost as Pressure Points, but costs more use points and has extra effects. I need to know if letting it stack with further attack boosts is a good or bad idea.

As for Selfdestruct not killing you if you kill the foe first, it goes by simple Island logic; if it's a problem, kill it - once it's dead and/or out of sight, then it isn't your problem. Wink


 
Quote
Ada
 Friday, May 07 2010 @ 02:35 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 428

Sneaky: the sort of thing that Kash described does not seem at all unusual to me. Exploits are things you have to worry about. There is not "bigger stuff". That's near game-breaking. You are proposing to create an implant that I would abuse the shit out of.

I mean, if you still want to give me that, that's cool, but don't complain when I (and um, everyone else?) break the game with it?


 
Profile Email
Quote
Anonymous: Sneaky the Noob Engineer
 Friday, May 07 2010 @ 02:47 AM UTC  


Quote by: Ada

Sneaky: the sort of thing that Kash described does not seem at all unusual to me. Exploits are things you have to worry about. There is not "bigger stuff". That's near game-breaking. You are proposing to create an implant that I would abuse the shit out of.

I mean, if you still want to give me that, that's cool, but don't complain when I (and um, everyone else?) break the game with it?



He hasn't even told me what the exploit is. Unless it's the plasma gun/gargleblaster combo; that's going to be there whether you've got a Snatch buff or not. The max-HP thief limit is a good safety net if the money reward's an issue.


 
Quote
Kash
 Friday, May 07 2010 @ 03:58 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 149

I actually meant "one-shot (teleporter)." So that nothing is wasted on fights in transit.

And yes, it could easily be an exploit. Yesterday I watched a player with fewer than 60 DKs do about 80k HPs of damage to a Titan with the effects from a single GBlaster. At least one set of 10 attacks, the suggested length of your Snatch ability, did over 35k of that. So in addition to the 80k req won from the Titan, he would have won a possible 80k more from Snatch, assuming a 1-to-1 ratio of damage to req. Unless you put an HP cap, which would rather severely truncate the usefulness of the skill for new players with only the basic starting HP. Also, several players have well over a thousand HP themselves, so even an HP limit would allow for tens of thousands of req gain for a player that doesn't need help gaining req anyway. Again, linking the req gain to any player stat is going to throw the usefulness of Snatch way out of balance.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Ada
 Friday, May 07 2010 @ 02:30 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 428

Quote by: Sneaky the Noob Engineer

Quote by: Ada

Sneaky: the sort of thing that Kash described does not seem at all unusual to me. Exploits are things you have to worry about. There is not "bigger stuff". That's near game-breaking. You are proposing to create an implant that I would abuse the shit out of.

I mean, if you still want to give me that, that's cool, but don't complain when I (and um, everyone else?) break the game with it?



He hasn't even told me what the exploit is. Unless it's the plasma gun/gargleblaster combo; that's going to be there whether you've got a Snatch buff or not. The max-HP thief limit is a good safety net if the money reward's an issue.



Letting people get money for every round in battle, based on the damage they do, is either going to be completely insignificant for new players, or completely exploitable for seasoned players.
For instance: at level one on your first drive kill, you will be fighting monsters with 10 hp or so. I fight monsters with about 80 hp at level 1. (It varies; I cannot recall for certain and I am not at level 1 now to check.) I am not a remarkably overpowered player. I do not even appear on the first page of the toughness or DKs list. I would exploit your skill like mad.
Unless, of course, you lowered the req output value so much that it becomes worthless for that new player.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Ada
 Friday, May 07 2010 @ 03:34 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 428

Double-posting, because I lost my edit window:

Okay, so, somewhere in there I didn't mention that monster hp scales to your hp, somewhat. Someone with about 300 base hp can expect to fight creatures with 100+ hp at level one on a r0, as far as I can tell. Rank appears to have an effect, also.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Akogi
 Friday, May 07 2010 @ 08:05 PM UTC  
Forum Badass
Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 76

Quote by: Ada


Someone with about 300 base hp can expect to fight creatures with 100+ hp at level one on a r0, as far as I can tell. Rank appears to have an effect, also.



I've seen monsters with around 200+ hp at level 1 on a r0 but then again I have around 400 base hp. Though I've noticed that most monster I fight on ranks up to r5 have a lot less hp than I do. I think I fought a normal monster once on r6 that had more hp than I did.

Quote by: Ada


Letting people get money for every round in battle, based on the damage they do, is either going to be completely insignificant for new players, or completely exploitable for seasoned players.



It would also be exploitable by new players as well if they're willing to spend the cash for DP, though not as much as veterans. It may be possible though to set up some sort of algorithm to take in account the more veteran players though. You could have something like:

If no Plasma Rifle or Sun Gun
Req Per Attack = base percent * damage * e^(-0.0025 * number of DKs) (*0.01 for GBlaster use)

If Sun Gun or Plasma Rifle
Req Per Attack = 0.1 * base percent * e^(-0.0025 * number of DKs) (*0.01 for GBlaster use)

I've noticed that with more DKs I've been doing more damage it would take this into account, and if you were to use a GBlaster. Even if something like this calculation was used then it can still be easily abused by people once they figure out a way to maximize the profit gained from it.

Quote by: Sneaky the Supervillain


Holographic Copy - 2 points. 3 round buff. Causes a light-based, convincing hologram of you to appear. It cannot attack or make any noise, but it does confuse your enemy into chasing it from time to time. It's so convincing that it fools the foe into thinking it can deal actual damage, and does about one half what a WHOOMPH! Grenade would do in a given turn. The two stack.



free whoomph grenade and it distracts the enemy, WOOT!. It's a good idea but without the Snatch ability a lot of people would use and abuse this on the higher ranks(r7 I'm looking at you!) to keep the enemy from killing them in one blow which ruins a lot of the fun.

Quote by: Sneaky the Supervillain


Flickering Lights - 2 points. 3-round buff. This function causes the display on your watch to flash with a horrid, rapidly blinking white light. Reduces enemy's fighting ability as if they were hit by a Monster Repellent Spray attack (as they are suffering a seizure).



Same as before only it's a free monster repellent spray. Still it would be used most of the time if there wasn't the snatch ability.

Quote by: Sneaky the Supervillain


Selfdestruct - 6 points. Overclocking time (geddit?). Spit onto your own watch, short-circuiting it (contrary to the above advert). Your fist crackles with surging power. With haste, you rush to grapple your foe, dealing 10x the damage. Take heed, for this is not StandStill in the slightest; oh no. If you failed to kill the foe by the end of your next turn, you are dealt ((your current level + your DK count, minimum 1) * 10) in direct damage.



So basically instant death if you don't kill them since I have no where near 650 hp at level 15 to survive that if it blew in my face.... not worth it at all. This is similar to a robot's over clocking. It's a good idea in theory but even the slightest bit of clocking is a BAD idea in practice.

The only way that it wouldn't be as game breaking is if you had the snatch ability as the final ability that would use all 7 of the usable points. Though with the lesser abilities for this implant, it would make r7 (or r6 for others) no where near as much fun. So the implant would be used by veteran players a lot for those abilities

For any thinking that I haven't done enough r6, I'll say this to you. I'm trying to pull off a r6 DK without a plasma rifle. I found it was a lot like naked r3s when I had one.

Another thing is you have 7 abilities and if your basing this idea off of the Spatial Awareness, you'll notice it only has 4 or 5 abilities, I forget which now I haven't used it for so long. I also believe that most of the buffs that spatial awareness gives only last the round you use it but I may be wrong there as well.

I still stand to what I said before, get a few more DKs behind your belt Sneaky so you get a better feel of the balance in the game.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Ada
 Saturday, May 08 2010 @ 01:05 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 428

I'm pretty sure the spatial awareness buffs only last one round. (The useful ones, anyway.)
Also, these ideas are rather like things already in game, except more so.

Bottom line: dudes, if you think it's awesome? It's gonna be gamebreaking.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Content generated in: 0.40 seconds
New Topic Post Reply



 All times are UTC. The time is now 06:32 AM.

Normal Topic Normal Topic
Locked Topic Locked Topic
Sticky Topic Sticky Topic
New Post New Post
Sticky Topic W/ New Post Sticky Topic W/ New Post
Locked Topic W/ New Post Locked Topic W/ New Post
View Anonymous Posts 
Anonymous users can post 
Filtered HTML Allowed 
Censored Content