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Count Sessine
 Friday, June 04 2010 @ 11:39 PM UTC  
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As I imagine it, the Enquirer's highly active forums would stay exactly the same as they are now. We also have the Wiki, full of great in-character creativity. Ain't broke, don't fix 'em. Certainly don't split the energy by starting up some other newspaper site.

All we really need to do is supply some additional content for the poor, lonesome middle column that's been static for so long (because CMJ has been spending his time adding awesome features to the game -- and yes, we want him to keep on doing that, please! so that's why there'd have to be an editor or so, to organize it all and keep it coming.)

I'm thinking a mix of player-submitted stories, copy-and-paste of selected MoTDs, informational articles, and staff-written feature announcements. Just a flow of good stuff, to keep that part of the page as dynamic as the rest of the site.

Plus, of course -- anything CMJ has the time to write!


 
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Anonymous: Buddleia
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 12:03 AM UTC  


Oh, yes please, Sessine. That'd be great! I was rather confused when I first found the Enquirer, until I noticed the Wiki and Forum links.

(Incidently, case in point about only finding things out in-game as they happen: all the outposts except Newbhome seem to have suddenly gone under attack. Did CMJ turn Onslaught back up to eleven?)


 
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Chimental
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 12:52 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine
I'm thinking a mix of player-submitted stories, copy-and-paste of selected MoTDs, informational articles, and staff-written feature announcements. Just a flow of good stuff, to keep that part of the page as dynamic as the rest of the site.

Plus, of course -- anything CMJ has the time to write! [/p]


Yes, a place for Player-submitted stories would be a great thing. Why? No reason. *shiftyeyes*


I make the many models of a mutant individual. To make them I use vegetables, animals, and minerals. From robot bugs to zombie bears to many singing barnacles.
 
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Baker
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 12:57 AM UTC  
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Sessine makes a good point about splitting existing creativity.

I guess what I'm interested in is some way to make that creativity more accessible to newbies. I'm approaching my fourth DK -- compared to most people I see actually using the forums, I'm very much a newbie, but compared to a Day-One New Arrival, I'm a veteran -- I'm just beginning to know enough to find my way around in the forum and wiki. Which makes either one less of a guide, and more of a set of inside jokes. Even if an I.I. newspaper were merely a digest of the best new content of the Enquirer and the Wiki of Lies, available for in-game reading, that would be avast improvement.

On the other hand, I think a newspaper could be done in a way to harness creativity and broader community-building. Some new creativity may be found by the addition of article and column formats. Someone might enjoy putting together summaries of the day's activities in the Outposts and popular hangouts, combing through the automated news for more-interesting-than-usual information.

Another idea: Edition stratification: A free edition, "supported" by advertisments of Island businesses. A platinum edition, with fewer, "classier" ads, more inside jokes. Silver, Gold, Titanium, Uranium, Unobtanium; each more exclusive than the last.


 
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Baker
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 01:55 AM UTC  
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I want to clarify: I do not support a character-edited paper if it is outside the game.


 
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Skidge
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 02:08 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Guessed

CMJ

So. Should we:

1) Turn the Enquirer into an in-character newspaper, complete with interviews, articles, letters pages and so on;
->For which we'll need an editor or two, and I'll need to reinstate the link to submit articles (which is all of two minutes' work);
2) Create a new newspaper with a different name, which will be in-character, and keep the Enquirer for game-related updates and chat;
3) Other.


Umm ... does it need to be either/or with options 1 and 2? Could we have the in-character bit (say) at the top, and the updates etc down below (or whatever arrangement works). So headline could be either, with a brief summary and a link to the main article, then in character stuff, then tech/update etc stuff.

What would happen with the Forums if it does go either/or?

Hmm .. an editor huh? Le'me think ... someone who ...
1. Has been around the Island for ages
2. Is known to be interested in books and writing and litcherary stuff
3. Is known to be suitably pedantic sometimes.

Ooh, ooh, I know... (OK, it's not for me to say, but I really hope she'll put her hand up, and be considered.)





*Cough*

Eek!

In-character, say you? IN-character? Because...if it's in-character, you're going to get an awful lot of articles along the lines of SO THERE WAS THIS BUG AND IT WAS WALKING AND IT WENT OVER THERE AND OH MAN IT WAS SUCH A GREAT BUG, Z! Z! COME LOOKIT THIS BUG OH-YOU-ATE-IT. I LIKE CHEESE. THE END.

Rrm, however, it's an intruiging prospect. I mean, who's to say that there isn't a Skidge who KNOWS how to do stuff like edit newspapers...it could happen...

That is, if you were talking about me. Who knows. You may have been talking about someone else entirely.


 
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KimmyMonstah
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 02:53 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Skidge


In-character, say you? IN-character? Because...if it's in-character, you're going to get an awful lot of articles along the lines of SO THERE WAS THIS BUG AND IT WAS WALKING AND IT WENT OVER THERE AND OH MAN IT WAS SUCH A GREAT BUG, Z! Z! COME LOOKIT THIS BUG OH-YOU-ATE-IT. I LIKE CHEESE. THE END.



I have a feeling either myself or Bob [whoever is supposed to be reading the in-character Enquirer] would find alot of enjoyment out of articles like these, actually.
Razz


 
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MadMad
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 04:50 AM UTC  
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I've read lots of stuff and ideas, some good, some quite bad.

And almost all seen to miss the point that the Enquirer's front page is the best suited place to attract and keep new players in the game.

An in-character newspaper would just confuse most people into thinking/believing this game is for an inner crowd only, discouraging newbies to stick around. And the lesser number of players who stick around, the smaller the collective sum of donations will be. Go around and have a look at some other LoGD so you won't be surprise to notice that most of them are being "ruled" by an in-crowd...

The more attractive/interesting the enquirer is to newcomers, the better chance that II will profit from it (and CMJ at the same time)! Basic Marketing 101 - if you don't know the principles, don't ask me to explain...

So please STOP thinking about what you would like to see, and start coming up with ideas that are beneficial for the game!


"I see," said the blind man to his deaf daughter while picking up his hammer...
 
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Count Sessine
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 05:19 AM UTC  
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**raised eyebrow**

An in-character newspaper might be something that was roleplayed, or found in the jungle, or handed out as a quest item. Amusing, interesting, perhaps coded in Improbable Labs to be a little mini-story. Like the Island's Library, it could be considerable fun for a while.

Indeed, people who were around in Season One will remember CTP's Improbable News Network (INN), which came out with, um, was it one or two issues? I don't think it would be terribly sustainable in the long term, though; after playing with the toy, people will quite naturally want to move on to other things. Putting out a newspaper on a regular basis is work. Not play. Trust me on this, I've done it.

You're quite right that it would not be a useful substitute for a flow of fresh content on the front page of the Enquirer.


 
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Pod
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 06:40 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

All we really need to do is supply some additional content for the poor, lonesome middle column that's been static for so long.... I'm thinking a mix of player-submitted stories, copy-and-paste of selected MoTDs, informational articles, and staff-written feature announcements. Just a flow of good stuff, to keep that part of the page as dynamic as the rest of the site.


I've been thinking a lot about that lonesome middle column today, what kinds of player-driven content it would contain and what editorship would likely involve. The model described by Sessine is the one that makes the most sense to me. I am willing to co-edit such a column, by which I mean I am willing to:
- solicit submissions to keep publishing consistent once the thrill of the idea has faded.
- politely reject contributions which aren't good enough for a front-page spot, with limited feedback about why it won't work.
- find a qualified replacement when life requires that I bow out of this responsibility (which it eventually will).
- take this commitment seriously.

I am not willing to:
- do this alone.
- work with fellow editors who don't take this commitment seriously.

So... there's my hat in the ring. I also wouldn't be offended if somebody else wanted to do it and didn't need my help. I mostly just want to see it done consistently and well.


 
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Sloth
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 07:49 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

So. Should we:

1) Turn the Enquirer into an in-character newspaper, complete with interviews, articles, letters pages and so on;
->For which we'll need an editor or two, and I'll need to reinstate the link to submit articles (which is all of two minutes' work);
2) Create a new newspaper with a different name, which will be in-character, and keep the Enquirer for game-related updates and chat;
3) Other.



Both! Uh, the first two! Shit, I don't know!

I can see the benefits on both sides: it'd be nice, when you clicked on the "Enquirer - Blogs, Forums and Wiki" link you didn't see lots of very old news, but if the solution is just export the MotD's than that doesn't seem so cool.

I'd like to see an in character newspaper, particularly a poorly edited, not well written one. Well, okay, not actually poorly written and edited, just, uh comically poorly edited and written. I don't know if such a thing would belong on the front page either, though.

So, yeah, I keep piping in these "suggestion threads" and being useless, so, uh, nevermind! Carry on!


 
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Anonymous: Guessed
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 08:09 AM UTC  


Quote by: Skidge


*Cough*

Eek!

In-character, say you? IN-character? Because...if it's in-character, you're going to get an awful lot of articles along the lines of SO THERE WAS THIS BUG AND IT WAS WALKING AND IT WENT OVER THERE AND OH MAN IT WAS SUCH A GREAT BUG, Z! Z! COME LOOKIT THIS BUG OH-YOU-ATE-IT. I LIKE CHEESE. THE END.

Rrm, however, it's an intruiging prospect. I mean, who's to say that there isn't a Skidge who KNOWS how to do stuff like edit newspapers...it could happen...

That is, if you were talking about me. Who knows. You may have been talking about someone else entirely.



Really? Cheese? I was expecting marmalade. How odd.

I guess I was thinking of 'in caharcter' as more 'in character with the Island' rather than the individual. And I would hope that the editor/s wouldn't be expected to write all or even most of the content. A cuisine aticle by (cooking person*)? Interviews with Island personalities. Island Health and Medical issues by (medical person)? Theatre News and Reviews by ... one of the Island Players. A crime bustin' multi part expose on the Skronky's. Yelling at Clarke Kent to get a scoop or he's fired. The possibilities! All placed in interesting and engaging ways around the tekko and Motd type stuff. You know you want to. Razz


*Marly Stewart?
------------

Of course all this is premature speculation and meant in fun until there is a green light on the exercise and guidelines on the content.

I agree with Sessine on not splitting the effort and creativity.

And I heartily second his comment: " ... (because CMJ has been spending his time adding awesome features to the game -- and yes, we want him to keep on doing that, please!..." and add a huge thanks to CMJ for his recent and ongoing awesomeness with recent developments.


 
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Anonymous: Guessed
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 08:13 AM UTC  


PS: Does Z really eat bugs?

Eek!


 
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Anonymous: dex
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 11:22 AM UTC  


Quote by: Guessed

PS: Does Z really eat bugs?

Eek!



and boots.


(actually, I've never seen her eat a bug. Boots and frisbees and MY ARM, yes)

dex


Ontopic and OOC: an easy place for Dan to post dev updates, yes. Wikis and forums that are player made/driven.

I suggest prioritising a friendly helpful not all-rules and intimidating lists and DONT SCREW UP like the current RP guidelines and Rookie FAQ, if you want to encourage people to join in and try RP, etc. Man, those pages! If it wasn't for Eben and his tea, I'd have never spoke.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 12:00 PM UTC  
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Quote by: MadMad

I've read lots of stuff and ideas, some good, some quite bad.

And almost all seen to miss the point that the Enquirer's front page is the best suited place to attract and keep new players in the game.

An in-character newspaper would just confuse most people into thinking/believing this game is for an inner crowd only, discouraging newbies to stick around. And the lesser number of players who stick around, the smaller the collective sum of donations will be. Go around and have a look at some other LoGD so you won't be surprise to notice that most of them are being "ruled" by an in-crowd...

The more attractive/interesting the enquirer is to newcomers, the better chance that II will profit from it (and CMJ at the same time)! Basic Marketing 101 - if you don't know the principles, don't ask me to explain...

So please STOP thinking about what you would like to see, and start coming up with ideas that are beneficial for the game!



Listen to this man. He knows what he is on about. The front page is your advert to attract new players. Yes, if someone else produced a newspaper then I may well enjoy reading it. No, that's not for the front page middle column.

I've no idea what is though.


 
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XaNe
 Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 12:41 PM UTC  
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Pesonally, I would love the idea of an RP driven newspaper, and would be happy to help with it in any way possible mind you, but that's not what I posted to say, actually. Well, it partially is, but nevermind that.

Actually, I wanted to pose a suggestion for the middle collumn: why does it have to be either In Character or out of it? What's wrong with a little of both? Personally, I would be delighted if what came out of this thread was a combination of the two. Basically, what I'm proposing is this: have stories in regards to both programming and recent events in regards to RP. This would require player submissions, of course, but I think it's reasonable to expect that people, excited about their writing, would put up articles telling others about it.

An example of what I'm describing would be, perhaps, the first article on the middle collumn tells us about, perhaps, the newest updates in the chat system, while right below it is an article detailing a particularly entertaining discussion, or even review, of the exploits of Eben and Skidge, for instance, with a link to a transcript at the end. Heck, if people would send me transcripts, I'd be doing it now.

But, that's aside the point. The point I was making is that it could be both, which would appeal to the gamers, and RPers. And that's about all I have to say for now...

Yep!


Some people see the glass as half full, some people see it as half empty, I just spit in the cup until it isn't a problem anymore.
 
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Baker
 Sunday, June 06 2010 @ 04:29 PM UTC  
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As excited as I am by the idea of an in-game newspaper, I would absolutely give up the idea to get some way to get/keep the Forum front page up to date.

I disagree that the forum front page is the main draw for new players: For me it was the main reason I considered not playing. I hate forums, and this one had horribly outdated content. The realization that the forum is not essential to game play is what made me comfortable continuing to play. If not for CMJ MoTD polls, I would have happily never given the forum another glance.

How can we get relative newbies (people for whom newbiedom is still fresh memory, I count myself in this group) involved, with old-timer supervision, in keeping the forum newbie-friendly? (not a rhetorical question)


 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, June 06 2010 @ 06:40 PM UTC  
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Terminology: Where you are right now...? Where we're having this conversation? That's the Forum. It's lively and current, full of teasing and news announcements and opinions and arguments, and it's the go-to place for anyone who wants to tune into real discussions about the game. There's nothing at all wrong with the Forum. It's good!

The Wiki probably gets fewer readers, but it too is perfectly healthy and full of wonderful stuff. The Gallery has tended to be kind of... off in the corner... except for when there's been a contest going on, when it suddenly turned into a hive of activity.

The Home page provides access to all of the above. Unfortunately, it also very prominently shows that center column of "stories" which have not been updated since last December, making the whole site look misleadingly dead! That's what we want to fix.


 
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Cousjava
 Sunday, June 06 2010 @ 07:34 PM UTC  
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I'd vote for the second option. It doesn't need to be a massive newspaper. Perhaps on the lines of once per fortnight, and it has perhaps 1 article that's based on Labs, one on the latest updates, 2-3 on in-game non-roleplay news (i.e. the results of the experiments on imp bombs), 3-5 articles on recent roleplay events (i.e., Kittania's Hunter's Lodge now has a hole in the roof. See here) and one interview with a well-known island personality. This sort of thing I think would be easy to do, and keep doing. A regular organised thing can happen, see the Weathervane Players, who have managed to keep on going for quite a while now.


A table, a chair, a bowl of fruit and a trombone; what else does a man need to be happy?
 
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Fergus
 Sunday, June 06 2010 @ 08:58 PM UTC  
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Hmm... we have to keep in mind something about the crowd we're talking about here. Remember that if true newbies check out the Enquirer, it'll be before they read the whole intro to the island. Some will go through the first page of reading where they give their name, but I'd assume that most will not. We need to pick something to mesh with that first and foremost.

If done well, I think a sort of 'incharacter' newspaper page would work very well, so long as we do things that won't scare away potential rookies. It would need criteria for the articles, kinda like so:
Articles about new game features are a must, even if they are a little hard to keep exactly incharacter (ie the new commentary system would have to bring up afk, saying that the characters that say that and only that suddenly go into a trance or something. That's still in spirit of being incharacter while still explaining the feature so all understand).
An article about jokers in general, citing some of the more famous ones for their opinions (Namely NPCs ala Cake or Death Man & Elias, but maybe players like Z & Sessine) sounds like it would really draw interest from all crowds.
An article specifically about a dwelling will depend on the dwelling's importance:
Once the Train Stations are fully running (ie out of Labs), an article about them is basically an article about game features (so, a must).
An article stating the various soup kitchens/rookie hostels would be nice and get the word out about them.
An article about one place like Dunbernarding is a little more shaky, though. Some toes might end up stepped on if one big place is deemed 'worthy' of an article, but someone else's isn't though they feel like it is. And would a big scary place like KK's compound help to draw newbies in?

I'm starting to ramble a little, so I'll stop here with the examples. The main thing is just that whatever is decided upon needs to be extremely newbie friendly.


 
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