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 Tattoo Mutant/Magpie - risk vs reward
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zamboni
 Sunday, August 01 2010 @ 09:43 PM UTC (Read 7070 times)  
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I admit that I'm posting this at about defcon 4 for "pissed-offedness", having just been 1-shotted by the Mutant for the 4th time on a rank 7 DK. However, I think it's a topic long overdue for discussion.

On those 4 deaths, I've lost a total of about 55000 experience - and I'm still only level 9.

I agree that these monsters should be tough; however, the penalties for losing need to be reduced (or the bonus for winning needs to be increased).

This last time I lost about 16000xp AND 7 charm - I'm actually considerably more upset about the charm loss. On two of the previous deaths I just lost xp; on one of them I lost about 16000xp and 4 cigarettes.

When you beat these mobs, all you ever get is xp. If there are potential charm/cigarette penalties for losing, there should also be charm/cigaretted bonuses for winning.

Why don't I just run away, you ask? Because the 1 time I did run away before the fight I lost 10 charm for doing so.

I have max tattoos/jewellery, so whatever bonuses accrue from those certainly aren't keeping me alive (or even giving me the opportunity to fight back on a rank 7 dk - 2 of the 3 times I died I had over 2500 defence, also not enough to survive for 1 round; I'm also around 1000hp).


 
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Adder Moray
 Sunday, August 01 2010 @ 11:44 PM UTC  
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Quote by: zamboni

I have max tattoos/jewellery, so whatever bonuses accrue from those certainly aren't keeping me alive (or even giving me the opportunity to fight back on a rank 7 dk - 2 of the 3 times I died I had over 2500 defence, also not enough to survive for 1 round; I'm also around 1000hp).



If things are as they were when the topic came up before, the tattoos and jewelry actually make the mutant and magpie HARDER after a certain point due to a mistake in the coding.


 
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zamboni
 Monday, August 02 2010 @ 04:28 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Adder+Moray

Quote by: zamboni

I have max tattoos/jewellery, so whatever bonuses accrue from those certainly aren't keeping me alive (or even giving me the opportunity to fight back on a rank 7 dk - 2 of the 3 times I died I had over 2500 defence, also not enough to survive for 1 round; I'm also around 1000hp).



If things are as they were when the topic came up before, the tattoos and jewelry actually make the mutant and magpie HARDER after a certain point due to a mistake in the coding.



Hmm.. thought this had been fixed, but maybe not.


 
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snicker
 Saturday, August 07 2010 @ 04:35 PM UTC  
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Is the Diplomat related to this? I have been killed TWICE now (in a row, which means I have now had two days where I got ONE step outside of the city before dying) by this thing without even a shot. Both times were unbelievably ridiculous amounts of damage.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Saturday, August 07 2010 @ 05:44 PM UTC  
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I've had something similar happen to me Snick, except with Canadian mosquitoes. I think that that's just the RNG being a bastard.

Back to Zamboni's original comment. I think he does have a fair point. I'm not entirely sure what the gain/loss ratios are, and I try to keep a ZAP in my bandoleer for just such occasions, so I've rarely had that many problems, but still. Preferably up the rewards, rather than down the losses. Just my tuppence worth.


 
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snicker
 Saturday, August 07 2010 @ 06:48 PM UTC  
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Nope - I figured out the problem. Took a third death... The diplomat gets very protective of his pocket protector.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Saturday, August 07 2010 @ 08:35 PM UTC  
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Aha. I believe it says something to that effect in the text when you hit it. I also believe that it's more a case of the pocket protector being somewhat protective of the diplomat. Very effective at it too.


 
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Count Sessine
 Saturday, August 07 2010 @ 10:00 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Back to Zamboni's original comment. I think he does have a fair point. I'm not entirely sure what the gain/loss ratios are, and I try to keep a ZAP in my bandoleer for just such occasions, so I've rarely had that many problems, but still. Preferably up the rewards, rather than down the losses. Just my tuppence worth.

I think the gain/loss ratios are very different depending on race, and on DK rank. These two monsters both always get a free first round with that "Fight" link, where... okay, you may technically be fighting back, but you don't get any choices about how to fight. No chance to use a grenade or trigger your implant. Just -- BAM, you fought!

As a Joker with not-too-bad hit points, I had a decent chance of surviving that first round. On a good day, I'd usually win it. Even on a rank 7. If not, as you say, a ZAP would finish the thing off.

Not now, not as a Robot. Losing that first automatic round seems to be 100% guaranteed. (Well, at R7, anyway.) ...And I've heard Kittymorphs on the subject. You meet either of them, you lose. Always.

For kittymorphs, the problem is that the naked-fighting buff doesn't work, which means they're fighting with no armor and no buff against a monster that attacks assuming they'll be armored up appropriately for their level. Of course they lose! I haven't figured out yet what's going on with robots.


 
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zamboni
 Sunday, August 08 2010 @ 12:54 AM UTC  
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Yah - if I survive to round 2, I'm fine - then I can grenade, or tesla frame, or even one-shot if I'm feeling unlucky - the problem is that free first round.

As I posted, 2/4 times I had over 2500 defense and 1000+ hps.


 
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tehdave
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 01:26 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

For kittymorphs, the problem is that the naked-fighting buff doesn't work, which means they're fighting with no armor and no buff against a monster that attacks assuming they'll be armored up appropriately for their level. Of course they lose! I haven't figured out yet what's going on with robots.



Actually, with enough DKs and Improbability Points put into Defense, and maxed out tattoos, I rarely have an issue with the Tattoo Mutant on rank <5, and with timed fighting on rank 5 got close but still beat it. Anything higher than that and you'll need a watcher blessing or a lightning suit to "survive" the fight.


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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Ochris
 Tuesday, August 10 2010 @ 12:36 AM UTC  
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Quote by: zamboni



As I posted, 2/4 times I had over 2500 defense and 1000+ hps.



I think the creature's hp scales to your own (or was that the quest monster?). One time I had 1 hp and the creature had 1.4111 or something like that.


 
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zamboni
 Tuesday, August 10 2010 @ 06:34 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Ochris

Quote by: zamboni



As I posted, 2/4 times I had over 2500 defense and 1000+ hps.



I think the creature's hp scales to your own (or was that the quest monster?). One time I had 1 hp and the creature had 1.4111 or something like that.



Yah, its hps scale - but its hps are pretty irrelevant; it's attack vs. defence that matters - and with 1000+hps (me), I should be able to survive a "reasonable" bad round.


 
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zamboni
 Sunday, August 15 2010 @ 08:04 PM UTC  
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OK - I'm confused, already posted this once and was told that it saved!

In any case:

Doing a rk7, up to level 7, have met the Tattoo Mutant/Magpie 8 times already.

At level 1, 970+hp, 180 attack, 2800 defence.

First meeting: I one-round the magpie... gain xp.
Second meeting: magpie one-rounds me... lose xp and 4 cigs.
Third meeting: mutual one-round kill... yay, player wins on a tie!... gain xp.

Next 5 meetings (over levels 3/5/7):

win in one round twice, lose in one round twice, win in two rounds once. Net small gain in xp.

Only once in 8 fights did I get to use an action (e.g. grenade) - every other fight was over before I had the chance to act.

Yes, you do get sometimes the opportunity to flee up front, but there's a huge charm penalty for doing so.

So, again, my suggestions:

balance the risk vs reward. If you have a chance to randomly lose cigs/req, you should also have the chance to randomly win stuff.

There can certainly be cigs and req for rewards, but how about:

magpie - small random chance to win a new piece of jewellery (different from what you can buy).

tattoo mutant - small random chance for a tattoo to leap off the mutant and affix itself to you (different from what you can buy).


 
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Hairy Mary
 Sunday, August 15 2010 @ 08:42 PM UTC  
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Quote by: zamboni

OK - I'm confused, already posted this once and was told that it saved!



I think that you posted it in the dwelling bugs thread by mistake. Big Grin


 
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Paul Lo
 Sunday, August 15 2010 @ 08:46 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Quote by: zamboni

OK - I'm confused, already posted this once and was told that it saved!



I think that you posted it in the dwelling bugs thread by mistake. Big Grin



He did.

http://enquirer.improbableisland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=16185&mode=&show=5&page=5

I guess being a completionist doesn't help passing through that devillish Rank 7 bridge. Le sigh.


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Count Sessine
 Sunday, August 15 2010 @ 11:17 PM UTC  
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Fixed.


 
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Beeker
 Monday, August 16 2010 @ 09:31 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine ...And I've heard Kittymorphs on the subject. You meet either of them, you lose. Always.

For kittymorphs, the problem is that the naked-fighting buff doesn't work, which means they're fighting with no armor and no buff against a monster that attacks assuming they'll be armored up appropriately for their level. Of course they lose![/p]


QFT.

We hates them, Precious.

I see other people saying "Yay, the Mutant, I got lots of xp!" and let me just say it is lucky that I do not have a webcam so that you all are spared the sight of the horrible conniption fit I have.


 
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Zpatula
 Tuesday, August 17 2010 @ 01:24 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Fixed.



Fixed? What's fixed?? Neutral


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zamboni
 Tuesday, August 17 2010 @ 04:36 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Zpatula

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Fixed.



Fixed? What's fixed?? Neutral



I think Sessine deleted the posts in the wrong thread.


 
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NotAgain
 Tuesday, August 17 2010 @ 08:17 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeker

Quote by: Count+Sessine ...And I've heard Kittymorphs on the subject. You meet either of them, you lose. Always.

For kittymorphs, the problem is that the naked-fighting buff doesn't work, which means they're fighting with no armor and no buff against a monster that attacks assuming they'll be armored up appropriately for their level. Of course they lose!


QFT.

We hates them, Precious.

I see other people saying "Yay, the Mutant, I got lots of xp!" and let me just say it is lucky that I do not have a webcam so that you all are spared the sight of the horrible conniption fit I have.



Meh. They don't seem to be a problem for NotAgain... who's most definitely a long-term kitty.

I'm not sure whether it's ATK or DEF which determines first hit as I've been cranking up both equally, but I'm guessing that at R7 Not has >4:1 chance of one-hit KOing the mutant. Smile

On Bastard Rank it's a whole other world of pain. but that why they're bastards, right?

I can't say that I've ever thought the rewards not worth the risk. [scritches head] Has there been some recent changes in the payout or something?


 
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