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 Making peace with jungle denizens
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Hairy Mary
 Sunday, August 08 2010 @ 11:09 AM UTC (Read 5642 times)  
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Several people have said, and probably more feel, that there are some jungle encounters that they don't like fighting because they feel bad about it. That's inspired this idea.

What about, we have a third option in a fight. We can Fight, Run Away, or Attempt To Make Peace.

So. What would happen when we Attempt To Make Peace? Well that would vary. For a majority of encounters, not much. They'd attack as usual, and you'd just lose your chance of attack for a round. However, for some, there would be a chance that the fight would end. There might be other effects as well. If you make peace with Emily, then you might have a chance of gaining a charm point. Make peace with the Evil Orc, and there's a small chance that he'd crash you a cig. Make peace with the Flying Pistachio and you lose a little favour and/or there's a small chance that he leads you to your Dan quest item if you're looking for one. I don't think that this would unbalance things very much, especially if the rewards were small, since you lose out on the potential exp and req anyway.

Just a brainstorming idea there.


 
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Ashtu
 Sunday, August 08 2010 @ 11:55 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

What about, we have a third option in a fight. We can Fight, Run Away, or Attempt To Make Peace.

I LOVE IT!!

It would be right in line with Ashtu's tenets.
Dunno what his sister would think about it, tho.

(hmmmm - did I just doom the whole idea?)


Thank you.
 
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talkydoor
 Sunday, August 08 2010 @ 02:26 PM UTC  
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I love this idea! The death or cake joker could actually provide cake.

Having said that, there are some monsters I'd just want to fight beside me: the diplomat, for instance, with his tempting pocket protector. No jungle creature worth its text would be able to resist.


 
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Anonymous: Indika
 Sunday, August 08 2010 @ 02:34 PM UTC  


I like this idea.
I also like the idea of pursuit, where the monster runs away to an adjacent square.
We can run away. Why can't they?
Similarly, when we run away, why must we always run in circles?
And if we end up on an adjacent square, what if the monster is in pursuit as well?
You could end up far away from a town, and have to seriously budget your stam if these conditions pertained.

~Indi


 
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Chimental
 Sunday, August 08 2010 @ 03:31 PM UTC  
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I like the idea, and we could even have the place that teaches peace keeping courses in Acehigh. 3 reasons why.

1 - Jokers are somewhat known for their politeness.

ii - It'll make Acehigh a place to actually visit once in a while, since it's forgotten cept for cake and the dojo.

and C - is for cookie and that's good enough for me.


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Kes
 Sunday, August 08 2010 @ 04:24 PM UTC  
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One loud, resounding yes from me. I love the idea of even simply having the opportunity to be a little less needlessly violent, and I'd be doing this for roleplay reasons even if favour/requisition/etc were lost every time.

Quote by: Chimental

I like the idea, and we could even have the place that teaches peace keeping courses in Acehigh. 3 reasons why.

1 - Jokers are somewhat known for their politeness.


That part brings to mind an image of the Jokers eagerly awaiting the onslaught of invading monsters, declaring the more sane reinforcers 'spoilsports', and heading out to battle with the gleam of bloodlust in their eyes. Polite, yes. Peaceful, perhaps not necessarily. Yet despite that, agreed. It would be nice to have a Joker-taught skill, especially a conscience-easing one such as this.


 
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Joey
 Sunday, August 08 2010 @ 04:48 PM UTC  
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Yes! Seeing as Joey's meant to be a pacifist (but with one DK?) I'm behind it entirely.


 
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calliaphone
 Sunday, August 08 2010 @ 07:09 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Chimental

...we could even have the place that teaches peace keeping courses...



oh haha!

i must sign callia up for classes. soon as she's recovered from her recent attempt to make peace with the drive.


 
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Anonymous: saint
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 03:09 AM UTC  


The problem I see is the incredible amount of text that would be necessary.
Also would you have a failure chance?
And if you did would you have a different message for monsters that had no effect than those that have an effect? (If you didn't certain players would keep on trying FOREVER!!)
other than those concerns YAY!!!


 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 04:12 AM UTC  
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Quote by: saint

The problem I see is the incredible amount of text that would be necessary.
Also would you have a failure chance?
And if you did would you have a different message for monsters that had no effect than those that have an effect? (If you didn't certain players would keep on trying FOREVER!!)
other than those concerns YAY!!!

It could be handled the way targeted fighting was... namely, the job of assigning effects and chance of success, and writing all that text... would be handed off to your humble moderators -- who would tackle it gradually, a few monsters at a time, as evil (ahem!) inspiration struck.

Either the default message for monsters where nothing had been defined could be different from the message where talking failed... Or... simpler and having the same effect: the link could appear only for the monsters where some result had been defined.
--
* I think 'Talk' would be more apt for this than 'Attempt to make peace', because some of the monsters this could apply to are not at all peaceful creatures, not even a little bit, but you might still get interesting results if you talked with them.


 
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Temper
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 06:30 AM UTC  
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This leaves the problem of not-quite-alive creatures, like the stew pot, or plastic bag. Should they just not have the possibility of this then? Or maybe you get a monologue when you attempt to talk to them? Like some creatures cannot be harvested for meat, and others can't be targeted (yet). Also, with Indika's pursuit option, I love the idea of being able to chase the Orc actively, or maybe the lion. Also, if there's an option for monsters pursuing you, maybe Repellant would prevent that from happening.

Temper's not really a fighter, and she'd definitely be behind avoiding fighting, but it would still be fun to have the other options available.


 
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Zolotisty
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 08:53 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Several people have said, and probably more feel, that there are some jungle encounters that they don't like fighting because they feel bad about it. That's inspired this idea.

What about, we have a third option in a fight. We can Fight, Run Away, or Attempt To Make Peace.

So. What would happen when we Attempt To Make Peace? Well that would vary. For a majority of encounters, not much. They'd attack as usual, and you'd just lose your chance of attack for a round. However, for some, there would be a chance that the fight would end. There might be other effects as well. If you make peace with Emily, then you might have a chance of gaining a charm point. Make peace with the Evil Orc, and there's a small chance that he'd crash you a cig. Make peace with the Flying Pistachio and you lose a little favour and/or there's a small chance that he leads you to your Dan quest item if you're looking for one. I don't think that this would unbalance things very much, especially if the rewards were small, since you lose out on the potential exp and req anyway.

Just a brainstorming idea there.



Eh. So, I've had a think about this for a bit, and I suppose my basic objection to this is as follows. Please see bolded bits:
Quote by: The Watcher, Two Minutes After You Arrive On-Island


"You've been drafted into a war against a machine called the Improbability Drive. It lives somewhere in the jungle, over there. Improbability is leaking out of this bloody thing like radiation, so we've got to blow it up. The whole war is being televised, you've noticed the cameras already, so try not to do anything stupid while the world watches. Your head hurts because the guys who burst into your living room with sticks and a great big sack probably hit you a bit too hard, and you might have landed badly when they tossed you out of the plane. You survived the fall without a parachute because of the Improbability Bubble surrounding the island, which makes the air notably denser about forty feet above sea level. You're naked and unarmed because everything that penetrates the Improbability Bubble gets changed in rather amusing ways, and we didn't want to take that risk. There's blood on my boots because I came across some monsters on the way over here - yes, monsters, stop gawping, you'll get used to them - and you'll either pick up the rest as you go along, or you'll die in a very entertaining fashion." She smiles. "Either way, it'll make for great television."



War, war, television, entertainment, blood death monsters aaah, television. It's my understanding that the player should be periodically Very Aware they're here as a soldier, as in Onslaught. This will be made still more apparent as the game develops.

The extra coding and writing such a feature would entail, ehm... seems to me a less valuable way to spend time than on substantive new content and features, when players who feel badly for the imaginary monsters can just run from the fight. Confused This is not to say the idea is without merit? I get excited about different ways for players to engage with the same gameworld and have radically different experiences, and this kind of option would allow them to do that very thing. But... my original concerns stand.


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 04:34 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Zolotisty

War, war, television, entertainment, blood death monsters aaah, television. It's my understanding that the player should be periodically Very Aware they're here as a soldier, as in Onslaught. This will be made still more apparent as the game develops.

The extra coding and writing such a feature would entail, ehm... seems to me a less valuable way to spend time than on substantive new content and features, when players who feel badly for the imaginary monsters can just run from the fight. Confused This is not to say the idea is without merit? I get excited about different ways for players to engage with the same gameworld and have radically different experiences, and this kind of option would allow them to do that very thing. But... my original concerns stand.

Hey now. Player characters, particularly those belonging to good roleplayers, spend most of their time subverting the Network's original notion that this is a war and only a war. Mr. Green

Moreover, the Network has to have realized that their highest-rated episodes now come from activities that have nothing to do with war. They are treating the Drive as a cash cow, and would surely be quite dismayed if anyone managed to defeat it permanently. It's a war they don't want to win! From the good-television side of all this, they would likely be delighted if monsters acquired another mode of (unpredictable) response.

In terms of player experience: Running from a monster gets to be rather boring after a while. Either you get away, and, oh well, ho-hum. Or, you don't, and very often kill the monster anyway accidentally with your ripostes. This lacks variety.

Simply "making peace" might, I agree, also fall somewhat flat -- not quite enough entertainment payback to justify the coding time. But... creating the option to "talk" with selected monsters. Ah, now that could provide a place for some rather cool new stuff to happen!


 
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crashtestpilot
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 04:42 PM UTC  
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To reply to Z's remarks, yeah, we've been drafted into a war that will make great television.
I seem to recall a number of draftees in my unit having free will that they took great advantage of.
Also, attempting to speak with a plastic shopping bag? Funny as hell. Also great television.

I don't see the overarching theme of the island (war/draft/tv) as being contradictory to this "talk to monster" feature, unless you're coming from a very strict interpretation of what the Island ought be.

At which point, said strict constructionist ought to review nearly every dwelling description and ask the builders: How in god's name did you build that with locally available materials? Big manors, ornate plasterwork, nuclear reactors, etc. One could, for instance, be very strict about descriptions and say, hey, if it's not likely that you could find that on the Island, you can't feature it in your dwelling.

Which, candidly, I think would fly like a pewter kite. To say nothing of the fact that it would probably take 3 months to review and suggest edits on Dunbernarding alone.

The only argument I buy in Z's post is this: Adding this feature would take away from other features.
So the real question is this: Does a talk to monster option push off other things players want more (more mounts, dwelling features, scrapbots, custom furniture, and suchlike)?

And what do we Islanders want in terms of feature priorities anyway (other than a log/stone theft prevention system)?

Seems to me a good topic for polling, if you ask me.
And I know you didn't ask me.

~CTP



 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 05:07 PM UTC  
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Quote by: crashtestpilot

So the real question is this: Does a talk to monster option push off other things players want more (more mounts, dwelling features, scrapbots, custom furniture, and suchlike)?

It is true: there are many more good ideas than time to code them! And CMJ's own ideas tend to be way more exciting than the ones players generate, because we're only working off what we have seen, and he knows what's possible.

The reason we suggest things here, anyway, is not that we think we get to vote on what he should be doing, or the order in which he should do it! It's that we hope the ideas we suggest will strike sparks off other ideas he's been mulling over and not talking about yet, the whole becoming greater than the sum of its parts.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 05:59 PM UTC  
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This is gonna have to be brief because I've just got back from England and I've got a million and one things to do (if you sent me birthday wishes and I haven't replied, it's because I've barely been around a computer for the past couple of weeks! I will reply, soon, honest!), but for now I'll say this:

This is a good idea. Not all good ideas are usable ideas, and not all usable ideas are good ideas (scrapbots!), but I think with a little bit of tinkering this could work quite well in Season Three.

BECAUSE! With the new chat commands and hidden rooms, we're seeing a taste of what Season Three's interface will look like. When we use a text parser in addition to regular static links, we can put in things that the player will have to think about and experiment with. If every page has a text input box, then we can put in nifty little features that aren't immediately obvious. A diplomacy-related combat command might actually be pretty cool, on some monsters, in some situations. For example, this would make more sense when being jumped on the world map, rather than when going looking for trouble.

Combat in S3 is gonna be waaaay different to how it is now (and more interesting), and things like Creature Targets will be text-input based (so you can discover new possible targets by yourself, rather than having them all displayed in a very obvious list). A diplomacy action, or other ways to get out of a fight without fighting or running, is a good idea. Not gonna happen any time soon, mind. Smile

(perhaps we could create a new iitem that acts like the opposite of Monster Repellent Spray - a sort of grenade filled with attractor scent, that you can throw towards the monster to make a quick getaway...)


 
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Kash
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 06:43 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

(perhaps we could create a new iitem that acts like the opposite of Monster Repellent Spray - a sort of grenade filled with attractor scent, that you can throw towards the monster to make a quick getaway...)



COMING SOON TO AN EBOY'S NEAR YOU
THE WHIFF GRENADE

Let's see... what scents would be available? Ancient Old Woman Perfume, WAY Too Many Flowers, perhaps one or two Irrelevantly Named Adjective-Noun varieties...

And of course, Bacon.


 
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crashtestpilot
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 07:50 PM UTC  
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I heart bacon grenade idea, and second that motion.
Available in three flavors: Yankee, English, and Thick Cut Hickory Smoked.
Bacon Grenades. They go with everything.
And they have a combo factor with Whoomph Grenades, by attracting every monster in a six square radius.


 
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tehdave
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 08:00 PM UTC  
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Quote by: crashtestpilot

At which point, said strict constructionist ought to review nearly every dwelling description and ask the builders: How in god's name did you build that with locally available materials? Big manors, ornate plasterwork, nuclear reactors, etc. One could, for instance, be very strict about descriptions and say, hey, if it's not likely that you could find that on the Island, you can't feature it in your dwelling.



Bolded for emphasis.
Rebuttal: If it's not likely to find something on the Island, then that just increases the chances of finding it, doesn't it?
There's perhaps a Million to One chance of finding enough plaster to do a statue of the Watcher sternly looking over the gate of your mansion. Meaning if you want one there, you'll probably find the plaster.

Edit: On topic: BACON GRENADES! The only downside for Dave using one is it'd distract him also, and thus be utterly ineffective. Or perhaps he and the monster would stare at each other for a moment before sharing the bacony goodness. Mr. Green


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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Chimental
 Monday, August 09 2010 @ 08:39 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Not all good ideas are usable ideas, and not all usable ideas are good ideas (scrapbots!)



Quit Teasing Me!


I make the many models of a mutant individual. To make them I use vegetables, animals, and minerals. From robot bugs to zombie bears to many singing barnacles.
 
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