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 Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD
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Hairy Mary
 Wednesday, January 12 2011 @ 11:47 PM UTC  
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Not entirely sure about the Isle of monsters idea, but if you do have it and it needs borking a bit, well not having a hospital tent there would make it harder.


 
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Epaphus
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 12:24 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

(and yes, I did briefly consider allowing Jungles to empty - it'd make the most canonical sense, but it's a bit drastic for Season Two)



If the Jungles empty, how will players level up? *Gasp!*--Would they be forced to travel? That's downright evil.


 
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Anonymous: kage
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 01:32 AM UTC  


Most of these suggestions sound fun.


And thanks CMJ for being on top of this!


 
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Awesome Fred
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 07:19 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

The other issue with this is that the system still doesn't make it any more enticing for a lot of players to run themselves out to another outpost. I know that, currently, AceHigh needs some help. I have good fighting stats, but not good travelling stats. Because I'm in Kittania, the payouts are reduced, and buying a weapon is currently still a priority over buying a one-shot to get out there.
Both Jokers and Midgets tend to encourage staying in one place - Midget because travel costs are so high, and Joker because if you spend a day's stamina getting out there, there's no telling if you'll be suited to fight once you're there. The last time I tried to help out AceHigh, I burned through all 12 of my chronospheres, and got one day that was good for fighting - And barely made a dent in the monster population. Jokers make for very in-the-moment daily planning, which is not good for anything that requires prolonged attention.



Your protests are what makes it sound so good from a design perspective. Making the players spend a day on travelling instead of the grind again? Sounds like we're mixing things up with another dynamic, breaking the rhythm of waking up, fighting in the jungle to 30%, banking, sleeping, and chronoboosting to the same day again.

As a player, you make an interesting choice whether or not to move to a city where there's an increased payout, or stay in the city where you are for an extra day of fighting. You don't need to one-shot out of there. One-shots used to be a lot more expensive than now, because CMJ accidentally deleted all the economy data and the system had to start over. OSTs weren't in carrot-on-stick range where you feel like travel requires you to grind to OST level--they were a luxury item for a rich level 15 person or an essential piece to someone creatively synergizing all aspects of their strategy to do a 1-day DK or something.

And you'll be suited to a fight, so long as the place hasn't fallen. Before a breach, you help clear a place out with fights at your level. During a breach, it's any-level-goes. And this incentive doesn't apply to breach fights themselves.

If you're a Joker, you're completely right about not getting suited for consistent Outpost prevention. But you get money from Diamond cards instead, so that balances out nicely, since they used to always get more money than the other races with no player input.

Until I learned about Dan's Quests, I always stayed in one outpost during a DK, and then I always stayed specifically in Pleasantville during any DK with any race ('cept Robot, which I didn't play much at the time). Encouraging travel is good.


 
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Beeps
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 07:39 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Quote by: Beeps

I said a bunch of words here.



Your protests are what makes it sound so good from a design perspective. Making the players spend a day on travelling instead of the grind again? Sounds like we're mixing things up with another dynamic, breaking the rhythm of waking up, fighting in the jungle to 30%, banking, sleeping, and chronoboosting to the same day again.


Agreed, something that mixes things up would be good. But my point is that with the changes, it's still easier to stay in the same outpost and do the same routine. Spend two days to get out there and (maybe) get an average of 100% req across the two days, or get 75% req for each day and know that you'll be able to bank it? Wasting three days of saved chronospheres, making no progress doesn't make me want to try that again. It makes me feel that my current schedule of running around in the safe jungle is a better idea.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

As a player, you make an interesting choice whether or not to move to a city where there's an increased payout, or stay in the city where you are for an extra day of fighting. You don't need to one-shot out of there. One-shots used to be a lot more expensive than now, because CMJ accidentally deleted all the economy data and the system had to start over. OSTs weren't in carrot-on-stick range where you feel like travel requires you to grind to OST level--they were a luxury item for a rich level 15 person or an essential piece to someone creatively synergizing all aspects of their strategy to do a 1-day DK or something.


So that's what happened...

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

And you'll be suited to a fight, so long as the place hasn't fallen. Before a breach, you help clear a place out with fights at your level. During a breach, it's any-level-goes. And this incentive doesn't apply to breach fights themselves.

If you're a Joker, you're completely right about not getting suited for consistent Outpost prevention. But you get money from Diamond cards instead, so that balances out nicely, since they used to always get more money than the other races with no player input.


The double payouts help to bring an incentive to the fact that an outpost needs help, but personally, a req reward isn't something that gets my attention at my current level of play. I can get any of the equipment I want in due time, with the only other equipment out there being so ridiculously expensive I don't even bother saving up for it. However, as a Joker, a breach is extremely handy for some of the reasons people have already mentioned. It's a way to speed through a lot of kills, but more importantly to me, you don't spend Hunting stamina, which is, even at level 49, still one of the highest-stamina-cost things I can do. I would actually do better to wait until it falls, then swoop in and burn through several dozen monsters, ignoring the major thing keeping me from being able to defend an outpost, and sneak out when I get a chance.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Until I learned about Dan's Quests, I always stayed in one outpost during a DK, and then I always stayed specifically in Pleasantville during any DK with any race ('cept Robot, which I didn't play much at the time). Encouraging travel is good.


Agreed, again. Anything that can actually motivate people to move about and experience the world is great. But actually making something that does this has proven difficult - Look at the rally.


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Anonymous: fred
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 08:33 AM UTC  



Just a side point, towards the top of the thread the subject of food was brought up.

There is little attraction in basing oneself in a city where there is no stamina recharge support i.e. food station. This make ACE High for example a boring place as you are rarely there. When a stamina boost is required the only way is to enter the Jungle and kill and cook things...therefore why stay in Ace High.

And is there any reason why there are now apparantly multiple Titans continuously roaaming the Island?

Just my 1o cents worth


 
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Beeps
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 08:38 AM UTC  
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Quote by: fred

Just a side point, towards the top of the thread the subject of food was brought up.

There is little attraction in basing oneself in a city where there is no stamina recharge support i.e. food station. This make ACE High for example a boring place as you are rarely there. When a stamina boost is required the only way is to enter the Jungle and kill and cook things...therefore why stay in Ace High.

And is there any reason why there are now apparantly multiple Titans continuously roaaming the Island?

Just my 1o cents worth


I was thinking that, but if you're a RP-focused Joker or Robot you could get away with living in a no-food city. AceHigh and CC404 are also close enough-ish to Pleasantville to gorge on supersteak if the need arose - And in most cases where you need supersteak, you're on your way to IC anyway.


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Awesome Fred
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 09:10 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: fred

Just a side point, towards the top of the thread the subject of food was brought up.

There is little attraction in basing oneself in a city where there is no stamina recharge support i.e. food station. This make ACE High for example a boring place as you are rarely there. When a stamina boost is required the only way is to enter the Jungle and kill and cook things...therefore why stay in Ace High.

And is there any reason why there are now apparantly multiple Titans continuously roaaming the Island?

Just my 1o cents worth


I was thinking that, but if you're a RP-focused Joker or Robot you could get away with living in a no-food city. AceHigh and CC404 are also close enough-ish to Pleasantville to gorge on supersteak if the need arose - And in most cases where you need supersteak, you're on your way to IC anyway.



CC404 is really far away from Pleasantville in terms of stamina, because you need to cross Snow and Mountains to get there. It's like how it's easier to get to Jersey City from Manhattan than to get to Northern Bronx--you take the Holland Tunnel in one instance (low stamina cost) and drive through red lights, mired cars, and jaywalking pedestrians to a slow-moving "expressway" where you coast until you die, whereupon your skeletal remains will arrive at the destination forty years later (the car should be on cruise control, solar-powered) in the other instance (high stamina cost).

As for supersteaks, I always need them every 3 days if I'm playing a non-Joker/Robot.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred
As a player, you make an interesting choice whether or not to move to a city where there's an increased payout, or stay in the city where you are for an extra day of fighting. You don't need to one-shot out of there. One-shots used to be a lot more expensive than now, because CMJ accidentally deleted all the economy data and the system had to start over. OSTs weren't in carrot-on-stick range where you feel like travel requires you to grind to OST level--they were a luxury item for a rich level 15 person or an essential piece to someone creatively synergizing all aspects of their strategy to do a 1-day DK or something.


So that's what happened...


It was funny to read something of the effect: "I was updating something on the test server with the economy... and then I realized I was looking at the ACTUAL server's economy after I overwrote it."

I'm glad it happened, because Nicotine Gums were in the 4k-8k range in each outpost, and cost 17 Req each. ALWAYS. I spent a couple days BUYING EVERY SINGLE NICOTINE GUM in IC to throw them all out on a DK, because I like messing with economies since it gives me a power trip. It was funny to buy that last Gum for 20k+ Req, the price only change in the last 100 Gums.

In these past months, the gums are at or below 1k or so, and I'm keeping it that way. I recently destroyed 1.5k gums on the DK where I finally abandoned saving CC404. (I don't destroy OSTs or anything that players actually value and are only produced by donations. Grenades/Bombs, Medkits, Ratpacks, and Nicotine Gums are on my approved Destruction list.)

Bringing it back to topic, I abandoned saving CC404. And you're right that while I was there, I saw the Rally make NO help in the CC404 population, it was quickly forgotten after the first couple rounds when it was implemented. But that could have been very low incentive, since the 20-cig pot is bugged and it still only gives 2. That's why there has to be something to address getting out of breaches, NOT just incentives to prevent breaches. Unbreaching has little appeal to most.

PS: I'm not the anonymous fred.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 04:18 PM UTC  
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Rally's fixed now, btw.


 
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Matthew
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 04:36 PM UTC  
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I'd just like to say that I think this new Council Offices deal is fantastic. Since it went active, no outposts (to my knowledge) have fallen, and I know CC would have at least gone down by now.

Also, completely unrelated question that I want to ask anyway: why can't we color dwelling names, anymore?


 
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Iriana
 Thursday, January 13 2011 @ 11:30 PM UTC  
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Rally's fixed now, btw.

How exactly was it broken? Besides the cig pot being a little wonky.

I agree with Matthew--the new readout is great. Definitely a huge step towards making breaches less of a drag.


 
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Maniak
 Friday, January 14 2011 @ 01:11 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Iriana

Rally's fixed now, btw.

How exactly was it broken? Besides the cig pot being a little wonky.

I agree with Matthew--the new readout is great. Definitely a huge step towards making breaches less of a drag.



The cig pot would set itself from 20 to 3 after a successful sign-up. Right now, there's a nice cig pot of 26 cigarettes, from only 2 players. And I intend to win it!


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Awesome Fred
 Friday, January 14 2011 @ 07:27 PM UTC  
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I was the other player, and I just joined it to test if the winner Distraction mentioned that the winner would get 20+ cigs. I see it works now! Big Grin

Not that I had to test it and didn't take CMJ at his word. Wink


 
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Anonymous: Sonny
 Friday, January 14 2011 @ 08:49 PM UTC  


Quote by: Awesome+Fred



In these past months, the gums are at or below 1k or so, and I'm keeping it that way. I recently destroyed 1.5k gums on the DK where I finally abandoned saving CC404. (I don't destroy OSTs or anything that players actually value and are only produced by donations. Grenades/Bombs, Medkits, Ratpacks, and Nicotine Gums are on my approved Destruction list.)



Just wanted to mention that I think these items are valuable. Knowing that you destroy them just for fun is ... disturbing. Eek!
Especially after the many months it took to get back to moderate prices...

On topic: Thanks for the changes! Seeing the threat levels in the council offices is really neat. If this proves to work in the long run, maybe further changes aren't necessary so soon.

Food (and buff food) in all outposts would help a lot. Longer access to the bank too. As already mentioned, there's no fun in dying because one lacks the money to heal in between, or buy grenades, ration packs etc. (Yes, Fred, your destroying them does not help the survival of the outposts Wink )

So to go there and fight, there should be ways to get stamina, buffs, deposit req etc., something that makes them at least equal to other outposts and worth visiting.
Somewhere someone mentioned quests tied to outpost threat levels. I like this idea. Maybe even getting a reward for killing a certain number of monsters there, or till one finds the "leader" of the current group of attacking monsters, or an especially strong monster. The council offices should give you the quests, because they should know about these things.
Several small things together can help a lot. Smile


 
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Awesome Fred
 Saturday, January 15 2011 @ 05:43 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Sonny

Quote by: Awesome+Fred



In these past months, the gums are at or below 1k or so, and I'm keeping it that way. I recently destroyed 1.5k gums on the DK where I finally abandoned saving CC404. (I don't destroy OSTs or anything that players actually value and are only produced by donations. Grenades/Bombs, Medkits, Ratpacks, and Nicotine Gums are on my approved Destruction list.)



Just wanted to mention that I think these items are valuable. Knowing that you destroy them just for fun is ... disturbing. Eek!
Especially after the many months it took to get back to moderate prices...

On topic: Thanks for the changes! Seeing the threat levels in the council offices is really neat. If this proves to work in the long run, maybe further changes aren't necessary so soon.

Food (and buff food) in all outposts would help a lot. Longer access to the bank too. As already mentioned, there's no fun in dying because one lacks the money to heal in between, or buy grenades, ration packs etc. (Yes, Fred, your destroying them does not help the survival of the outposts Wink )

So to go there and fight, there should be ways to get stamina, buffs, deposit req etc., something that makes them at least equal to other outposts and worth visiting.
Somewhere someone mentioned quests tied to outpost threat levels. I like this idea. Maybe even getting a reward for killing a certain number of monsters there, or till one finds the "leader" of the current group of attacking monsters, or an especially strong monster. The council offices should give you the quests, because they should know about these things.
Several small things together can help a lot. Smile



Before the economy getting deleted, prices were very stagnant from things not getting purchased very often. Again, there were thousands of Nicotine Gums that most people never use because most people value their cigs too precious for a fighting buff just sitting around, and grenades stock up really quick from the number of Rookies that sell every day. Medkits and Ratpacks I don't destroy often at all, and I do use them from time to time. But they're fair game if I come across them in crates before a DK, because they're usually never a precious resource that's sought after anyway, unlike OSTs, Energy Drinks, and Monster Repellants. I'm trying to keep the economy a bit more fluid. Trust me, I'll stop way before the game gets unplayably expensive for everyone.

If you're ever 3 Req short for a BANG grenade and you're sitting at 1 health, 19.99% stamina, and an opponent with 1 health, and you had no gear yet to sell back, but you needed to kill that one last enemy to prevent a breach from happening, I welcome you to curse my name. Wink


Now fighting my urge to stay off topic, I realize now that we need to reward players to keeping a Breach off to make an incentive for people to fight breaches, but it can't be so good that a player will let a city fall so they can fight a breach.


 
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Wongo the Sane
 Saturday, January 15 2011 @ 05:49 PM UTC  
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I'm glad you're not just destroying Medkits for the sake of it.
I'm still pineing for the days of 10req small medkits when I did my first Bastard Rank DK.


 
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tehdave
 Saturday, January 15 2011 @ 07:27 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Wongo+the+Sane

I'm glad you're not just destroying Medkits for the sake of it.
I'm still pineing for the days of 10req small medkits when I did my first Bastard Rank DK.



Oh, the joys of Bastard Rank, and the actual use of the medkits... Damnit you're making me want to do another one now >.<
(Maybe if I keep some gear to sell off for a half-decent weapon to start, it'll happen)

On-topic, I like the council office change, though I think the reduced req payouts should really only be happening if there's an outpost at some sort of threatened level as it punishes low-DK characters. For instance:
PHP Formatted Code
A mechanical readout mounted on the wall gives the threat levels for the various Outposts on the Island:

Improbable Central: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
Cyber City 404: Minor Activity
NewHome: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
Kittania: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
New Pittsburgh: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
Pleasantville: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
Squat Hole: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
AceHigh: Minor Activity


No outpost is currently threatened (Minor Activity I wouldn't call Threatened) and yet there's only 2 outposts with normal req payouts. Maybe if each threatened level increased req payouts slightly? so instead of only getting the increased payouts if the city is about to fall, you get them as long as you're keeping it from getting to that point.


Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? All you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, the sky's the limit.
 
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Maniak
 Saturday, January 15 2011 @ 09:11 PM UTC  
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Are you complaining the new system works too well? Don't worry, I predict the novelty will wear off.

Maniak. For all your predictions. Get yours today!
Disclaimer: not an actual advertisement. Please do not actually apply for a prediction. Predicted predictions may or may not be accurate. We also own the tagline business.


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Anonymous: Sonny
 Saturday, January 15 2011 @ 09:32 PM UTC  


Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Quote by: Sonny

Quote by: Awesome+Fred



In these past months, the gums are at or below 1k or so, and I'm keeping it that way. I recently destroyed 1.5k gums on the DK where I finally abandoned saving CC404. (I don't destroy OSTs or anything that players actually value and are only produced by donations. Grenades/Bombs, Medkits, Ratpacks, and Nicotine Gums are on my approved Destruction list.)



Just wanted to mention that I think these items are valuable. Knowing that you destroy them just for fun is ... disturbing. Eek!
Especially after the many months it took to get back to moderate prices...

On topic: Thanks for the changes! Seeing the threat levels in the council offices is really neat. If this proves to work in the long run, maybe further changes aren't necessary so soon.

Food (and buff food) in all outposts would help a lot. Longer access to the bank too. As already mentioned, there's no fun in dying because one lacks the money to heal in between, or buy grenades, ration packs etc. (Yes, Fred, your destroying them does not help the survival of the outposts Wink )

So to go there and fight, there should be ways to get stamina, buffs, deposit req etc., something that makes them at least equal to other outposts and worth visiting.
Somewhere someone mentioned quests tied to outpost threat levels. I like this idea. Maybe even getting a reward for killing a certain number of monsters there, or till one finds the "leader" of the current group of attacking monsters, or an especially strong monster. The council offices should give you the quests, because they should know about these things.
Several small things together can help a lot. Smile



Before the economy getting deleted, prices were very stagnant from things not getting purchased very often. Again, there were thousands of Nicotine Gums that most people never use because most people value their cigs too precious for a fighting buff just sitting around, and grenades stock up really quick from the number of Rookies that sell every day. Medkits and Ratpacks I don't destroy often at all, and I do use them from time to time. But they're fair game if I come across them in crates before a DK, because they're usually never a precious resource that's sought after anyway, unlike OSTs, Energy Drinks, and Monster Repellants. I'm trying to keep the economy a bit more fluid. Trust me, I'll stop way before the game gets unplayably expensive for everyone.

If you're ever 3 Req short for a BANG grenade and you're sitting at 1 health, 19.99% stamina, and an opponent with 1 health, and you had no gear yet to sell back, but you needed to kill that one last enemy to prevent a breach from happening, I welcome you to curse my name. Wink


Now fighting my urge to stay off topic, I realize now that we need to reward players to keeping a Breach off to make an incentive for people to fight breaches, but it can't be so good that a player will let a city fall so they can fight a breach.



Good to hear Smile

Yes, could be the novelty. But it seems to work for now. Better than nothing ^^


 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, January 16 2011 @ 12:46 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Mack

Quote by: Matthew



And maybe newer players shouldn't be subject to reduced req rewards until around the 5th DK or so. After all, as a rookie, leaving NewHome is a tall order!



Another easy solution would be to make Newhome always put out at 1x req rates. It's not like it would ever come under a real threat, so long as titans were kept down.

This.

Reduced/increased payouts are a fine incentive -- it seems we players are rather a mercenary lot, and on the whole quite willing to go where the money is -- but I am concerned that the fix makes it harder for brand-new rookies struggling through their first DK.


 
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