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 Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD
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Ebenezer
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 06:41 PM UTC (Read 12238 times)  
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I was one of those few who's voted on the recent poll "I'll tell you on the Enquirer." I figured we needed an obviously-named thread to put the replies into.

Here are my scattered thoughts on the matter, in no particular order:

The Outposts that fall frequently are the ones that are empty. I think they are empty because they are inconvenient. The biggest convenience issue, in my opinion, is food. If the food's good, then people will hang out there. I have often thought that if there was at least one "healthy choice" food in each Outpost, then it'd improve traffic. Nobody wants their characters to get fat.
I know that this might not be a popular suggestion, as it screws around with race-cultural things a bit. Why would Zombie food or Midget food be healthy? Why would Robots or Jokers have food at all? -- I don't know. I just know that if the Outposts had better food, then more people would be willing to go there.
(As a side note: the only outpost I'd not want to see a healthy-food-choice in is NewHome. Y'know... to encourage people to move on, once they can afford better food).

I play high ranks, because I like the challenge (and a high rank-average). However, this makes me mostly-useless during a Breach and utterly-useless with Titans. I'm not encouraged to fight, when I know my character will just wind up on the FailBoat. I am not sure what to suggest here. I know that a Breach and a Titan should be hard to destroy and that a high rank should be hard. -- But it leaves a lot of players, like myself, unable to help if an Outpost goes to hell.

There's little encouragement to defend an Outpost, other than experience. Not everyone's interested in levelling up fast. I think that if there was requisition involved, then more people would be interested in helping out.

Titans are popular, I believe, because they have proven to be an alternative way to earn requisition. I never fight Titans myself, because of the high-rank issue, but I know that a lot of people would be upset to see this part of the module gone. If this module vanishes, I'd really like to see another requisition-earner to replace it.
People need requisition to get the fancy, expensive weapons. And people can't just get all of that requisition in jungle-fights. (Especially if you can't fight in the jungle, because you're likely to die without buying a good weapon first).

Also regarding Titans, I think that there may be some sort of side-issue where all of the Titans are always slaughtered by a small handful of the same people. There are others who are interested in taking down Titans, but they are unable to, as the Titan-Slayers sometimes come in and take the kills before the weaker-players have a chance to make a dent.

For the lesser-popular Outposts, if there's no way to lessen the monster number by making the module weaker, is there a way to create something new that will help the players kill the monsters? I have no idea how that would work, and I feel a bit silly just trying to suggest a thing like this.

----------

As for whether or not the module should be scrapped, I'd rather not see that. I think that it would be a huge shame to lose all of it, entirely, forever. However, as it is now, it's not working. I'd much prefer if the module could be edited and made better, if that's an option.
If it's a choice between "keep it" and "lose it" with no "fix it" option, then I'm going to have to say lose it. As it is, it's not working. Titans are a huge shame to lose, but I'd rather lose the Titans and get the Outposts back, un-Breached.

I realize that I've listed more problems than solutions, but that's because I don't know how the module works and I don't know the different ways that it might be tweaked to solve these problems. I'm just trying to help make it obvious as to what needs to be tweaked.


 
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Wongo the Sane
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 08:03 PM UTC  
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Seconded, pretty much my opinions word for word.

EDIT: I agree it's a characterful thing, and I will regret missing my only real chance at a one-day DK, but I feel breaches generally are a massive inconvenience - and would be more than happy to live without them.


 
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Anonymous: Kelwine
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 08:58 PM UTC  


Yeah, my thought process went sort of like that. I don't like the breach part as much, but I love the idea of Titans. Myself and a few others that I know would love to RP in places like 404 and AH, but the fact that they tend to go down a lot presents a problem. I really want to see those farther-out outposts see more use, as they have a lot of potential, especially 404 if you ask me.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 09:45 PM UTC  
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From the other thread...

Quote by: dizzyizzy

I, personally, absolutely LOVE onslaught, especially breaches. It is far and away my favorite part of the gameplay. I love the frenetic pace, the crap shoot that is what level monster i'll get, everything. Absolute loads of fun. I'd be heartbroken to see it disappear. Do I have a solution that'll keep everyone happy? No. Do I have a solution that'll keep me happy? Yep. Up the rate at which monsters enter the outpost. Crank it through the ceiling. That seems to be the opposite of what you're going for, though...



To expand on why I love onslaught so much: It reminds me of a textual version of Doom 2, also known as The Greatest FPS ever made. Who here remembers the fun of charging into a room, chain gun blazing, probably screaming a battle cry from your desk chair, hoping you can outlast the myriad of demons within? I do. It was, and is, one of the highlights of my day.

Can I survive in onslaught?

Sure. With a Cat Launcher + Force gen. Other than that, I just hold on and hope to get something I can handle, grinning the entire time. So I get boated. Big deal, it's a game. I'll still run back in there the next day.


On top of that is the sheer badassery of it all. I once cleared out Squat Hole, Ace High, and a good half of New Pitts before I had to go dk. It was awesome, and I'd hate to lose that opportunity.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 09:48 PM UTC  
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I like the idea of onslaught and titans, but in practice they're a pain in the arse. People have been discussing possible fixes in the other RANT thread, some of them might work, or might not. If it was changed so that only one outpost was under threat at any one time, and that happened, what, say once a week tops, then yes, that could be good. I'm not sure what to do about titans, which are play things for the big boys really. I think that they'll have to go until such time as the whole combat system is rebalanced a bit. Which sounds to me like a very big job, to be implemented at season change over time. Then bring them back, starting small and slowly growing.

Otherwise, I would regretfully say scrap it.


 
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calliaphone
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 10:33 PM UTC  
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I'm sorta seconding Hairy Mary on this one. I guess? I mean ... it's hard for me to say scrap it/don't scrap it ... since i'm really not much of a gameplay person (stream-of-consciousness follows...)

Using breaches to one's advantage is a concept that goes over my head. Breach = runaway OR fail, basically, for me. And Titans are simply things that squish my characters. My stats are such that I'm very little help at all with breaches or with Titans (even if it was in Callia's character to stride bravely up to danger and confront it). And when I have had a pop at them (with Callia or one of my other characters), there's very little in it for me except the sense of "helping out even though it's futile". With Onslaught, the gloss went off that for me .... oh, right back when I wrote about it last time (about a year ago?). Threat levels seemed to settle down a bit after that, so I calmed down and adopted a "play around it" strategy, when things did flare up. i.e. Let others deal with it unless it suits me to join in, and otherwise get on with the rest of the stuff I do. Titans came along, and I just carried on playing around them in much the same way. I'm so used to that now, my game-experience hasn't been overly hurt by the sudden upswing in round-the-clock-multiple-breaches lately. But it's fair to say that neither Titans nor Onslaught have added anything for me either, in the long-term.

I've felt, right from the start of Onslaught, that there needed to be less of it. I know it's meant to be a gameworld set in a war-zone so breaches do add "realism" (of a sort!). But ...people come to the island to play, for fun. And modules like dwellings encourage a much more diverse RP-outlook, much more varied storylines than just "we're in a war-zone", which is part of the fun (at least for people like me) - in that we get to make up stories of our own, like complicated diversions from the standard canon. If you're into that sort of thing, it does jar the expectations a bit to find so many outposts under attack so often.

So, I guess I'm saying ... Onslaught could possibly still add to the game experience for me, but only if breaches are a very occasional thing. In other words, if the war takes place in the jungle, and the players go out to find it, most of the time. But occasionally there is a flare up and a whole bunch of monsters and/or Titans hit a single outpost really hard, and it takes a little while to sort it out. If it's rare, but lasts a week or so, I could imagine actually choosing to RP into it a bit, rather than just filter it out - knowing it's something that doesn't happen every day. It becomes a story event, to play off, and can make for interesting new directions for characters.

I say all this, aware that I'm speaking purely from a RPer's perspective rather than a gamer's. If this would spoil fun for a lotta people, that's no good at all, but I'll leave others to speak up for themselves.


 
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Epaphus
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 11:41 PM UTC  
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I tend to agree with Hairy Mary and Ebenezar. I like the idea of Titans, but I don't attack them when I play at higher ranks.*

Can the Onslaught module be limited to specific cities?** If not, then my vote is to unplug it.***
_____

* Because ... well, I end up enjoying the comforts of the Failboat often enough as is, without the Titan's tossing me directly there with a shrug of their mighty "shoulders."

** Not, of course, that I'm advocating daily monster invasions into Kittania. Nope, not at all. Nor do I know anything about the plot to drench Titans in catnip cologne. Rumors and lies, I say!--All of it, rumors and lies.

*** Maybe it can be reactivated on special occasions--say, like Thursdays.


 
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Anonymous: Isaac "Fig" Newton
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 01:55 AM UTC  


Quote by: Epaphus



Can the Onslaught module be limited to specific cities?** If not, then my vote is to unplug it.***



Pretty much what I was going to say. I mean, think of it one way. If the streets/squares/etc. are bare except for the occasional NPC, and them onsters are smart enough to attack places where the people are supposed to gather....

In other words; if the monsters are getting smart enough to attack outposts, then it only makes sense that they would, by now, have learned to only really bother going for the outposts that are bustling. Also that robots aren't usually too great for eating.


 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 02:19 AM UTC  
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If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.

It would let people plan for their quests and parties and story-scenes, and enjoy other parts of the Island for the rest of the week.

Or, you know. Doesn't have to be once a week. It could be, for instance, the tenth and twenty-eighth days of each month. Or the full moon.


 
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Mongo
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 03:50 AM UTC  
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There is one aspect of this that has not been covered. I will speak for myself, because I don't know how many others it affects. I have a substantial investment in Titans. (14/38) I would like to keep them around, even on a reduced frequency


If it cant be done, should I stop doing it?
 
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Scorpio
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 03:53 AM UTC  
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Now that I've seen that there are others that have also run into frustration from this, and there is some discussion, I'm in a much mellower mood. I still think the onslaught system, as it is, is not a good solution, but with some mods it could be.

In addition to a couple of ideas that I've put in the RANT I started and in light of the discussion of how the module works, and why it is causing so much problem, well, it spawned a rather evil alternative idea to scrapping it all together.

Since the problem is not enough players in the outposts that are constantly going down, why not hook in something like the heroic system for people that like to avoid the drive. If an outpost goes down, the townspeople in other outposts start grabbing anyone just loitering around role-playing, tote their asses off to the breached outpost, and throw them to the breach monsters. It would make sure that when an outpost breaches enough people actually go there to fight off the breach!

Of course if that is implemented, I'd say the outcry to dump the onslaught module would gain some major volume!

Actually the idea of limited activation is very appealing, it would give some chance of outposts being breached, but would also allow for them to be up a whole lot more of the time.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 03:58 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.

It would let people plan for their quests and parties and story-scenes, and enjoy other parts of the Island for the rest of the week.

Or, you know. Doesn't have to be once a week. It could be, for instance, the tenth and twenty-eighth days of each month. Or the full moon.




Oooooooohhhhh full moon onslaught would be awesome.

I'd stamp that plan with my seal of approval, provided it's more difficult to prevent a breach. I don't want to see breaches disappear.


 
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Matthew
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 04:08 AM UTC  
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Mm... I've already made my opinions clear in the other thread, but I guess I can reiterate them here.

I would not be too sad to see Onslaught go away. Right now, Ace High, Squat Hole, New Pittsburgh, and Cyber City are all breached. Whatever intent the original system might have had to get players to spread out across the outposts, all it's really accomplished is the direct opposite. I know I would probably visit Cyber City a lot more often if it would actually be up more than 10% of the time. Maybe that's selfish of me, but it's still defeating the purpose.

Right now it's certainly hurting more than it's helping, so scrap it for now. I fully approve of weekly/monthly breaches, though!

I would be quite sad to see Titans go away, though, even if I realize the majority of contestants probably wouldn't blink twice at it. I'd love to see those stay in some capacity.


 
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Anonymous: Pawn
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 04:17 AM UTC  


I, for one, rather enjoy playing the desperate survivalist role. Personal preference, I know. So, I was rather disappointed to hear that the onslaughts might be going away. That being said, it sounds like they are happening rather more often than when I played 8-9 months ago. But in any case, I did want to be the minority voice.

From what I have been hearing, the problem seems to be that some outposts are mostly empty and therefore get overrun, while others are always well-defended. I'm a fan of the bring-the-monsters-to-the-people solution, but I wonder if there are any bring-the-people-to-the-monsters solutions that are less drastic than forced relocation? As it is, there is no reason for me to go to Squat Hole unless Dan sends me on a mission there. If I'm doing missions for Dan. If there was a greater incentive for folks to hang out in the more northern cities, they would get reinforced more and more of the jungle critters would be agressed.

A handful of ideas along these lines would be to make items at eBoys cheaper the further north they are, more missions from Dan sending people to 404 or Ace High, maybe some unique (and lucrative) locations in the north? I have no idea what the technical difficulties are in implementing these, but they would help address the root problem of empty outposts.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 06:56 AM UTC  
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I think above all, though, is that while we think of ways to make Onslaught more fun because most of us seem to like its concept (and most of us seem to like Titans a lot more), the Onslaught Module gets removed until that later fixing-up. The game's current status with New Pitts and CC404 being down 90% of the time has gotten to absurd, and the self-correcting part of these algorithms don't really seem to be making it easy for unpopulated outposts to clear up.


 
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Maniak
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 10:18 AM UTC  
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I like the idea of a Breach tied to the stance of the moon /current Microsoft stock /amount of donations in the past 6 weeks /time o' the month of the Watcher /DKs by naked spork wielding kittymorphs.

For posterity's sake I'll also repost from the other thread.

Proposed fixes:

a) Link the Onslaught to the people currently in the Outpost. This will center it around the most populated outposts, NewHome Kittania and Improbable Central. There are enough fighting people there to keep it safe. This might be a problem if player numbers are inflated by pure RP'ers and non-fighting alts, but I personally doubt the severity of that.

b) Wall hitpoints should fall the amount of health the Titan has left once it reaches the outpost. Titans were originally made to warn a Breach was coming. Right now, Titans arrive at CC404 which already has a high threat level, and they're the final nail in the coffin. This is a double-breach mechanism. Walls don't do much for the outlying posts when a titan can spawn less than 4 clicks away. Make walls more useful, and close the bank at lower than 1m hitpoints, the bar at 500k. Anyone from Rookie to Veteran can build a wall, and it'll have a direct impact. It's more community driven than soloing a Titan.

c) Breach is popular only among those high on the DK-ladder, because the grind away from level 1 takes ages. Breach isn't popular because of the fallen Outpost, but because of the exp. The amount of monsters you need to kill at level one goes up by 1 each DK. At DK 50 that's becoming boring. As far as removing Breach itself, that's fine. To negate the cries of those that like the exp grind, either chance the leveling ladder, or give normal exp in the Nightmare court. The way it scales up is perfect. Most of the buffs only last a limited number of rounds and the monster resets to level 1 upon entering, so gargleblasting your way in shouldn't give too much of an unfair advantage.

and, adding to it, in the spirit of c),

d) Make an Island in the lake, flooding with monsters. As a sort of well of monsters. For every 1000 monsters killed, the encounter rate for the entire island is lowered by 1%. Yo dawg I heard you like the Island so we put an Island on the Island so you can be on an Island while you're on the Island


http://maniak.cu.cc/
 
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Matthew
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 10:53 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Maniak

d) Make an Island in the lake, flooding with monsters. As a sort of well of monsters. For every 1000 monsters killed, the encounter rate for the entire island is lowered by 1%



Ooh, now this is an idea I like. With current breach mechanics, you get no money for fighting breach monsters; I think that's a rather good balance. If you spend your entire DK fighting in a breach, you're left with zero money for valuable equipment/grenades/gargle blasters. So- jungle fighting (or crate hunting) would still be quite necessary.

A playground where only the elite dare tread, and easily avoidable by everyone else!

Then again, this does seem a bit too easy; there's have to be a sort of catch. Maybe the monsters are actually quite tougher than their jungle counterparts.


 
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Caleb
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 01:17 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.

It would let people plan for their quests and parties and story-scenes, and enjoy other parts of the Island for the rest of the week.

Or, you know. Doesn't have to be once a week. It could be, for instance, the tenth and twenty-eighth days of each month. Or the full moon.



That sounds like an excellent idea. I'm not sure how you'd justify it -- moon madness, maybe, or something to do with the tides, given that Titans are sea-dwelling critters -- or if it even needs any justification at all, but I'd be quite pleased to see something like this in effect. As long as people knew it was coming, and could stock up on grenades -- yes.

I vote this.


 
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Iriana
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 04:22 PM UTC  
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I like the idea of a Breach tied to the stance of the moon /current Microsoft stock /amount of donations in the past 6 weeks /time o' the month of the Watcher /DKs by naked spork wielding kittymorphs


I laughed out loud.

Funny as that'd be, though (and oh man, it'd be really funny.) I like the idea of a regular breach, even if I'm not sure how that'd quite work in story. "Oops, it's Thursday, better go eat some unwary citizens" seems a little out of place. But of course it is Improbable Island, as we often say.


 
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Epaphus
 Sunday, January 09 2011 @ 06:04 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.



Ah!--Finally!--Someone around here listens to me!*
_____

* And he should have realized the magnitude of his mistake by now. But I do like the idea of tying it to the value of Microsoft stock.


 
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