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Harris
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 07:24 AM UTC (Read 2992 times)  
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I saw mention of wanting actual books we could pass around in-game in the 'Shop Shops Shopping?' thread, and got ot thinkin'.
Code for full books we could put in our dwellings, or buy, or trade, etc. sounds like it would be so complex, server, AND time consuming as to be totally unworthy of the effort.

But what about a new Official in-game dwelling? A public library?
Yes, I know there are at least two on the Island already, but I mean make this ONE dwelling and this one alone a place where we could pick out a book, and take it with us, then later, bring it back.
How so?, you may ask. Well, knowing exactly shit about php OR LotGD code, I shall tell you.

(in no particular order)
Books would be player-submitted, a la Monster Sightings.
Books would be Mod-reviewed a la Monster Sightings.
Books would have a LOW page limit. Say 3-5 pages.
Each book would have its full body for you to read in the Library (in the appropriate room description in the library)
Each book would have an extra buitton to click that no other room in any other dwelling has- a 'check out' button.
If you click on the 'check out' button, that book is temporarily. removed from the Dwelling, and sent to you as a Distraction.
Any attempts by other people to read it in the library would then olnly yield a 'This book has been checked out by ____ " response.
The book would NOT be able to be passed around while you've got it checked out ('cos it's YOUR responsibility, of course!).
After the normal Distraction auto-delete time, the book would be deleted too.
The book would return to the Library rooms after the normal Distraction auto-delete time.

Simple as theoretical phyisics? Or complex as cut and paste?


"Ain't nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile." -The Grateful Dead
 
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Maniak
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 11:46 AM UTC  
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For posterities sake I'll link to the other thread Shop Shops Shopping.

There are 4 dwellings called library, actually. So, which of the 4 will be the Official one? Oh shit, worms! Please go back in the can.

Ahum. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
I think it's a good idea. Except I think one book per player, on loan for 30 days, is a bit long. Most libraries have multiple copies of popular books, don't they?

From a technical standpoint, it's even possible. I'm not sure how and where room descriptions are saved, but once you have it, it should be trivial to send it as a distraction. Having a list of links in a room description is all possible, so you could have a list of books, possibly with user-ratings. You don't even need a mod to review it, other players/the dwelling owner could.


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Hairy Mary
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 12:17 PM UTC  
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If you're looking for content for the books, then you need look no further than the wiki. There's plenty of stuff in there that would do admirably.


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 12:30 PM UTC  
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I will start my reply off with this. I don't know if this person (Sydney) is still around, though I presume you could get the code by emailing that account still.

Quote by: Harris

I saw mention of wanting actual books we could pass around in-game in the 'Shop Shops Shopping?' thread, and got ot thinkin'.
Code for full books we could put in our dwellings, or buy, or trade, etc. sounds like it would be so complex, server, AND time consuming as to be totally unworthy of the effort.

But what about a new Official in-game dwelling? A public library?
Yes, I know there are at least two on the Island already, but I mean make this ONE dwelling and this one alone a place where we could pick out a book, and take it with us, then later, bring it back.
How so?, you may ask. Well, knowing exactly shit about php OR LotGD code, I shall tell you.

(in no particular order)
Books would be player-submitted, a la Monster Sightings.
Books would be Mod-reviewed a la Monster Sightings.
Books would have a LOW page limit. Say 3-5 pages.
Each book would have its full body for you to read in the Library (in the appropriate room description in the library)
Each book would have an extra buitton to click that no other room in any other dwelling has- a 'check out' button.
If you click on the 'check out' button, that book is temporarily. removed from the Dwelling, and sent to you as a Distraction.
Any attempts by other people to read it in the library would then olnly yield a 'This book has been checked out by ____ " response.
The book would NOT be able to be passed around while you've got it checked out ('cos it's YOUR responsibility, of course!).
After the normal Distraction auto-delete time, the book would be deleted too.
The book would return to the Library rooms after the normal Distraction auto-delete time.

Simple as theoretical phyisics? Or complex as cut and paste?


I replied with BIG WORDS (Length, not height like those) on the other thread (Which now links back to this thread so WE'RE IN A LOOP RUN FOR IT) about my full feelings on everything involved in module making. I've still got the new Abandoned Factory in the works somewhere. But anyway, more specifically on this suggestion (Which should be in the Module Ideas on the Labs, where it can be properly ignored - Thus why all this needs to be merged!):

Honestly, I prefer the idea of being able to make full books over making partial ones. It's more time consuming to make, but really, what's the purpose of checking books out in your system? You make a book, you check it out - And then no one else gets to read it. It's long enough to write a short story, but I don't know how many people are going to log in to read three pages of text - and if it's only three pages, what's the purpose of checking it out? You can read it right there. Because it's set up on a submission system, it means that books are one-time submissions - You can't change or add to them. It also means more work for mods.

If I may DERAIL THIS THREAD AND BE PROUD OF IT not really I'd like to propose a similar but different idea of the same concept. this is based off of the bastardization of dwelling construction that I've been working on the past few weeks, so in essence I'm proposing a situation to ruin a builder's selection box worth of items and like three week's worth of planning.
This still needs a separate table like I mentioned before, but what the hell, we're dreaming big.

Storage.
Not beds, something like storage spaces. These would take up the same floor spaces as beds. I will call these simply "Storage" from here on out. Options for how to get them:
1. A "I want one with this many spaces, it will cost ___ cigs/req" setup, like custom furniture. Probably not the best idea because of later.
2. Standard furniture method, one with 5 slots costs 10,000req, one with 10 slots costs 20,000req, or whatever.

These would be, by default something basic, like a table, a bookshelf, and a cabinet. Add in the same customization options as beds, so you can turn these into fridges, wall safes, picture frames, tool boxes, memento chests, words words words words you get the idea. Like current furniture, you name it and give it a description. And added field I'd like would be the "interaction" name. "Look at" [Storage]. "Talk To" [Storage]. "You cannot play gin rummy with" [Storage]. Plunk this down in your dwelling, and voilą! You've got your Storage space. But obviously, this Storage needs things in it!

Widgets.
Spawned from a hybrid of the Generic Monster and the Rude Copy, Widgets are vague, unknown devices that can be molded into just about anything.
Widgets can be gifted.
UNLIKE furniture, the Widget is in a dormant state when you receive it. It has one "mold" use upon purchase, usable at your discretion. You can bring it back to Mr. Widget, The Most Creatively Named NPC On The Island (This name is non-negotiable) and pay to have him re-mold it for you if you need to make adjustments.
Widgets would have no weight for the sole reason that giving them a specific weight would seem equally unwieldy. Perhaps alternatively, a widget has a set mass, and can be divided to make copies, so you could have one stuffed dog, or a dozen eggs. Or something. BRAINSTORMING WITHOUT SLEEP.
Widgets would have a number of different options on Molding - the name of the object, the description of the object, if it has a use (and a description for said use, like opening a music box plays music). In order to change one thing, you would have to re-mold it.

Now, this part is probably seems pretty obvious - Widgets go into Storage. Rather than "Folding bed available," the option would be [Interaction name] [Storage's name here]."
Inspecting it would take you to something like eBoy's crossed with a dwelling room - If you're the dwelling owner, you can take or place Widgets into spaces in Storage. You also have the option to lock or unlock the Storage. Locking/unlocking would disallow/allow people to take items from it. Maybe another key option, like rooms.
If you don't own the dwelling, your options are to look at the objects. This takes you to a page that displays the current object's description, as well as giving you the option to look at other things in the display (Think how the journal entries work in the Museum) or to go back to the Storage/Dwelling. If the Storage is unlocked or you have a key, you will have the option to take the item here. This would be handy for making, say, a snack bar in a dwelling that you replenish from time to time, or something.


I think this covers everything required for this idea. But I'm basically not awake at this point. Anyway.
Pros:
  • Dwellings can have detailed descriptions of objects in the room. Make a cheap-ish single-space Storage that automatically opens the description of the object placed in it for simple things like paintings, or buy a bookshelf and fill it with half a dozen books - Just the titles that catch one's eye.
  • It gives dwellings (And large room sizes) more purpose - you want somewhere you can show off all your gewgaws, don't you?
  • Players can craft items and trade them around. Yes, this means that dumb people can make dumb things, but this really isn't any different than dumb people just claiming they're making dumb things, and that already happens.
  • User-created content! If Widgets are cheap, or the materials are negligible, people in NewHome could hand out actual flyers. You could keep souvenir mugs from your trips to the Failboat.


Cons:
  • This doesn't really solve the problem of short books. If the character limit is still the same, you can still have pretty detailed books I suppose, though you can't actually write a novel in one. It does let the player add on journal entries and such, though. You could also make a Storage named "book on a table" and have each Widget be a page. This would also let you turn to whatever page you want - Someone make a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure! Did I just turn a con into a pro?
  • This would likely be a shitton of work. Like... Dwellings system level work, I think. Not hard, necessarily, but lots of work.


Oh, and another thing. If these are separate and basically work like mucked-up house rooms... They'd have Widget IDs. That you could hook modules into. Make a cell phone that lets you talk to people in another city, but charges you per-word from your bank account. Sell them. Make a music box that, when used, emotes playing music in the commentary you're in/closest to.

Okay this is like maddeningly long now so I'm going to stop typing and go to bed.


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Harris
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 03:16 PM UTC  
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Beeps- I like ALL of your ideas, and am going to studiously step away from them for the near future, because I'm trying to only address an apparent desire for readable books to be available in-game , as well as try to campaign for something that would be a SMALL (code) creation (as well as an apparent ease of input thereof. DO NOT FORGET- I know shit about php and LotGD code).

I think HM's suggestion neatly solves any problem with any possible need to have short books and create almost no extra work for Dan and the Mods after adding the code into the game (for the forseeable future, of course. Things change, and all that.):
We do the same system I suggested, but without user submitted content. Make the books copies of content from the Wiki of Lies. Make 'em the 1st thru X characters of a wiki page each time, and when we DO hit the text limit, slap a link to the wiki page at the bottom, like we have in our Bios.
Thus, it's not as complicated as it could be to code, is much easier to maintain, AND you can still read epic-length stuff when you wanna.
Plus, as to why people would want to read something in the inventory, inbox, whatever when they could already read the whole thing somewhere else-
(an excellent poiint, btb)
It'd be just like a library. You COULD just walk in and read, but just like a library, if you don't want to travel there, or hunt through there to finish said book, you'd have the option of taking it with you.
Plus, you're greatly underestimating how many of us here LOVE to read, and how many of us would LOVE this for the roleplay aspect too.
Yes, roleplay is imagination, but look at a roleplaying gamer's face when they buy that new bag of dice, or start filling out that cool looking character sheet pdf they just found, or buy those new miniatures... See what I mean?


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Ashtu
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 03:27 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

If I may DERAIL THIS THREAD AND BE PROUD OF IT not really

You're an amateur at train-wrecking, Beeps. *grin.* This may be a first - Ashtu shunting this runaway train back on the main track (I think), 'cause I want to emphasize and add to HM's post:
Quote by: Hairy+Mary

If you're looking for content for the books, then you need look no further than the wiki. There's plenty of stuff in there that would do admirably.

Yes YES. There is an UNBELIEVABLE amount of really, really good (and, probably, unappreciated) original writing and transcripts of superb role-play sessions. (yeah, well, there's some stinkers, too) One can link (albeit awkwardly*) from the island into the wiki itself - take a look in the Annex (20,12).**

Okay, I'm done - brakes disabled, throttle pulled out, firebox glowing, boiler rivets popping, and heading straight into the crowded train yard....

* CMJ, any chance of having a decent way of creating wiki links in dwelling descriptions?
** unashamed plug.

EDIT: Harris and I seemed to be channeling each other - yeah!


Thank you.
 
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Ashtu
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 03:39 PM UTC  
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oops, too late to edit again -
Wiki index

EDIT edit: Is it just a coincidence that Harris and Ashtu both have grey cat avatars?


Thank you.
 
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Harris
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 05:31 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Ashtu

oops, too late to edit again -
Wiki index

EDIT edit: Is it just a coincidence that Harris and Ashtu both have grey cat avatars?



Pfft. Ashtu, now that's not nice. You KNOW that you should only be lying about who is and isn't your alts in the wiki! Of COURSE I'm not you!


Bak on topic-
Just wanted to clarify to Beeps that I totally agree with going ahead and creating a complicated new system in the coding is smarter from a strategic standpoint- i.e., it'll open the door to OTHER new features down the road, and with that much less coding needed, BUT.
1) I am coming from a P.O.V. of not only not knowing how to wield said code at all,
2) I have no idea what IS in the works ALREADY...

So K.I.S.S. seemed to be the most prudent until a Mod or a Dan or an Emily steps in and says "Wrong tree, go bark up that one."


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Beeps
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 08:18 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Harris

Beeps- I like ALL of your ideas, and am going to studiously step away from them for the near future, because I'm trying to only address an apparent desire for readable books to be available in-game , as well as try to campaign for something that would be a SMALL (code) creation (as well as an apparent ease of input thereof. DO NOT FORGET- I know shit about php and LotGD code).

I think HM's suggestion neatly solves any problem with any possible need to have short books and create almost no extra work for Dan and the Mods after adding the code into the game (for the forseeable future, of course. Things change, and all that.):
We do the same system I suggested, but without user submitted content. Make the books copies of content from the Wiki of Lies. Make 'em the 1st thru X characters of a wiki page each time, and when we DO hit the text limit, slap a link to the wiki page at the bottom, like we have in our Bios.
Thus, it's not as complicated as it could be to code, is much easier to maintain, AND you can still read epic-length stuff when you wanna.
Plus, as to why people would want to read something in the inventory, inbox, whatever when they could already read the whole thing somewhere else-
(an excellent poiint, btb)
It'd be just like a library. You COULD just walk in and read, but just like a library, if you don't want to travel there, or hunt through there to finish said book, you'd have the option of taking it with you.
Plus, you're greatly underestimating how many of us here LOVE to read, and how many of us would LOVE this for the roleplay aspect too.
Yes, roleplay is imagination, but look at a roleplaying gamer's face when they buy that new bag of dice, or start filling out that cool looking character sheet pdf they just found, or buy those new miniatures... See what I mean?



I guess my question here is, what's the point of making a system we already have? As mentioned, short books wouldn't allow for some of the longer entries, so we'd still have most of these on the wiki. My point wasn't so much "Well, people don't want to read" - This is a text game after all. If players here don't want to read... Rolling Eyes My point was that your system makes a limited-quantity, limited-length version of the Wiki.
Depending on the character limit, you'd likely have books about as long as a forum thread page. I don't see people needing to check this out to finish later. You don't get two posts into a thread and take a break.
Making a system like this would still require that someone go through and add all the wiki entries. If it's not the players, then you haven't reduced the work for the mods, you've increased it.
If you're looking at it from an RP perspective, then a library where all books are very strangely formatted transcripts doesn't make much sense, either. While I'm absolutely the sort who would spend the time travelling to a bookstore/library to get information, this system takes out a lot of the RP elements of getting the book without improving anything. Getting the book in a distraction and making it unavailable to other players doesn't really seem like a roleplay element when the player can just read it on the wiki.

From a code perspective, your system sounds like it is mildly simpler (And a lot of it is already written up in other files) but far more finicky. The time-sensitive section (For book retrieval) specifically sounds like it could make NewDay processing a pain. Depending on the version you're talking about, creating the mod approval system would be a lot of work. All of the scenes being transferred back it would also have to be converted back into II style - `n and whatnot. The question here is, do you want to spend 80 hours making a system for creating one type of object, or spend 100 hours making a system for creating any kind of object? It's also not the sort of thing where you could put the extra 20 hours into the first system to make the second. This is "rebuild the dwelling code from the ground up" amounts of work to change to the other system.


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Derp derp
 Saturday, February 26 2011 @ 11:58 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Maniak


There are 4 dwellings called library, actually. So, which of the 4 will be the Official one? Oh shit, worms! Please go back in the can.



Well, why not all of them? Plus this would work for other dwellings too.

Also, this is Improbable Island - books should be able to trigger secret passages or other things, like the waterslide in the Bingo Hall.


 
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Stranger
 Sunday, February 27 2011 @ 02:50 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Derp+derp

Quote by: Maniak


There are 4 dwellings called library, actually. So, which of the 4 will be the Official one? Oh shit, worms! Please go back in the can.



Well, why not all of them? Plus this would work for other dwellings too.

Also, this is Improbable Island - books should be able to trigger secret passages or other things, like the waterslide in the Bingo Hall.



If all else fails, an "official one" could be in improbable central.


 
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Sydney Fletcher
 Sunday, February 27 2011 @ 05:28 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

I will start my reply off with this. I don't know if this person (Sydney) is still around, though I presume you could get the code by emailing that account still.


Why yes, I am still around Big Grin

Let me start by saying that I am not a programmer, I was just fiddling around with PHP over the summer as a bit of a fun project. I did manage to cobble together a module that runs in a dwelling and lets you check out three books at a time. You could pick from a list of titles or input your own. This was back before IItems were around, so all that happened was that the titles showed up on your bio. Now, conceivably, books could be actual items with weight that you could stick in your backpack and even give to people, although I'm quite sure what your incentive would be for lugging them around since they don't actually do anything for you. When I was writing the fool thing I toyed with the idea of getting buffs or things from the books, but I decided I liked it better as a purely fun RP kinda feature.

Nothing ever happened with the module because of a number of reasons, including a) it was a horribly ugly sloppy disgusting mess of inefficient code thanks to the fact that I had no idea what I was doing (but I still got it to do what it's supposed to!), and b) the school year started up again.

I do know that there are a number of enterprising young whipper-snappers of programmers running around the Island, and I would be more than happy to pass along my code to anyone who feels up to taking the baton and running into the blue horizon. Feel free to send me a distraction or an email or such.


 
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Harris
 Sunday, February 27 2011 @ 08:23 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

I guess my question here is, what's the point of making a system we already have?




Quote by: Harris

Plus, as to why people would want to read something in the inventory, inbox, whatever when they could already read the whole thing somewhere else-
(an excellent poiint, btb)
It'd be just like a library. You COULD just walk in and read, but just like a library, if you don't want to travel there, or hunt through there to finish said book, you'd have the option of taking it with you.



Quote by: Beeps

My point wasn't so much "Well, people don't want to read" - This is a text game after all. If players here don't want to read... Rolling Eyes My point was that your system makes a limited-quantity, limited-length version of the Wiki.


Is that a bad thing?

Quote by: Beeps

Depending on the character limit, you'd likely have books about as long as a forum thread page. I don't see people needing to check this out to finish later.


Yeah, and we don't need to play a game, either. This would purely be for fun. Plus, as was already said in the other Shop Shops Shopping? thread, which you saw too, the there is A demand for having readable books in the game. How big of one, I don't know. But it is there.

Quote by: Beeps

You don't get two posts into a thread and take a break.[/p][/QUOTE]
You've never had to leave the computer suddenly?

Quote by: Beeps

Making a system like this would still require that someone go through and add all the wiki entries. If it's not the players, then you haven't reduced the work for the mods, you've increased it.[/p][/QUOTE]

Of course it does. Any and all code would because then is there is suddenly more game that needs looking after.
You're making it sound like you're arguing against adding anything to the game.

Quote by: Beeps

If you're looking at it from an RP perspective, then a library where all books are very strangely formatted transcripts doesn't make much sense, either. [/p][/quote]
Sure it does. Most recorded information on the Island comes in the form of Network files. So it'd make perfect sense for our characters to be reading transcripts.

Quote by: Beeps

While I'm absolutely the sort who would spend the time travelling to a bookstore/library to get information, this system takes out a lot of the RP elements of getting the book without improving anything. [/p[/QUOTE] Which you have not given any evidence of. How does it take out a lot of the rp elements of getting a book? How does it not improve anything? Sometimes people just like roleplaying games for the roleplaying, and don't need a reward for it to be fun.

Quote by: Beeps

Getting the book in a distraction and making it unavailable to other players doesn't really seem like a roleplay element when the player can just read it on the wiki.



Again, look at it from the advantages of reading in a real-life library v. taking a book out of a library.
Plus, the wiki is a real-life information trove. Why and how would your character know all of these things? Okay, it's published in the Improbable Enquirer. Does Beeps read the Enquirer? Shoot, for that matter, how many times (off of the train) have you seen an NPC OR Player character reading the Enquirer? It's rather rare, isn't it?
Yet if we had a library of wiki info on the Island, not only could we have a much easier time with writing stories with each other when the reason for our characters to have this information shared that would otherwise be almost unknown is right there in game, but a lot of people never read the wiki because they think it's an average "how to play" wiki, and that's all. Putting wiki entries in full or in part on the Island itself would also be a good tool for getting people more into the game, the same way sitting down and reading the wiki did for each of us.
If enough people think that a functional library wouldn't be worth having without having original works in it, well then, we'll put original works in. Supply and demand.
You say over and over again that it makes little roleplaying sense, but you give agruements that make so little sense when compared to what happens on the Island, and what is in game v. out of game information, that I don't understand why you're making that point at all.

Quote by: Beeps

From a code perspective, your system sounds like it is mildly simpler (And a lot of it is already written up in other files) but far more finicky. The time-sensitive section (For book retrieval) specifically sounds like it could make NewDay processing a pain.

Oooh, yeah. Hadn't thought of that. I remember how fast Newday wasn't at the beginning of this year alone...

Quote by: Beeps

Depending on the version you're talking about, creating the mod approval system would be a lot of work. All of the scenes being transferred back it would also have to be converted back into II style - `n and whatnot. The question here is, do you want to spend 80 hours making a system for creating one type of object, or spend 100 hours making a system for creating any kind of object? It's also not the sort of thing where you could put the extra 20 hours into the first system to make the second. This is "rebuild the dwelling code from the ground up" amounts of work to change to the other system.



I already addressed this, too, but I apparently wasn't clear. I'll rephrase. It is smarter to do a lot of work now to build a versatile system that could give us books and lots of other things LATER... but CAN that "lot of work" be done now? And which is wanted more? A bigger system that does lots of new things in the future, and nothing now? Or a smaller system that adds in a new toy that many would enjoy (and ONLY add in that toy) right now?


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Harris
 Sunday, February 27 2011 @ 08:25 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Derp+derp

Quote by: Maniak


There are 4 dwellings called library, actually. So, which of the 4 will be the Official one? Oh shit, worms! Please go back in the can.



Well, why not all of them? Plus this would work for other dwellings too.

Also, this is Improbable Island - books should be able to trigger secret passages or other things, like the waterslide in the Bingo Hall.



I like those thoughts too, but I think setting up such things in player-created dwellings is being avoided so as to not convey favoritism, and the war that that would start.
Mind you, this isi me educatedly guessing, nothing more.


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Awesome Fred
 Sunday, February 27 2011 @ 08:58 PM UTC  
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As the owner of one of those four libraries, I will volunteer my library as NOT being an official one of the island. Wink


 
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Beeps
 Sunday, February 27 2011 @ 10:01 PM UTC  
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First, some specific responses:

Quote by: Harris

Quote by: Beeps

Depending on the character limit, you'd likely have books about as long as a forum thread page. I don't see people needing to check this out to finish later.


Yeah, and we don't need to play a game, either. This would purely be for fun. Plus, as was already said in the other Shop Shops Shopping? thread, which you saw too, the there is A demand for having readable books in the game. How big of one, I don't know. But it is there.

Quote by: Beeps

You don't get two posts into a thread and take a break.


You've never had to leave the computer suddenly?


You split this up weird. Confused I meant that there didn't seem to be a need for a group of people who seem to generally be fast readers to "check out" a travel brochure's worth of text in order to finish it - Especially if it makes the text unavailable to others. If it's a one-copy-only thing, I could see people being unwilling to check books out if it means no one else can read it in the event that you actually had enough text that they couldn't finish it in one sitting. And in the case of needing to leave, you don't usually decide, "Well I don't have time to finish reading this thread now, I better copy it into a text file and delete the forum until I have a chance to finish reading it."

Quote by: Harris

Quote by: Beeps

Making a system like this would still require that someone go through and add all the wiki entries. If it's not the players, then you haven't reduced the work for the mods, you've increased it.


Of course it does. Any and all code would because then is there is suddenly more game that needs looking after.
You're making it sound like you're arguing against adding anything to the game.


This wouldn't just be a matter of maintaining the code (Maintaining code is 99% kicking it when something fails once a month). Making it so all the books are just copy-paste things from the wiki means that rather than just having to approve content as it comes through, they'd have to actually go through and add everything themselves. It's like asking them to build the dwellings module and your dwelling.

Quote by: Harris

Quote by: Beeps

If you're looking at it from an RP perspective, then a library where all books are very strangely formatted transcripts doesn't make much sense, either.


Sure it does. Most recorded information on the Island comes in the form of Network files. So it'd make perfect sense for our characters to be reading transcripts.


Wouldn't it make more sense that we'd have recordings? Why would the network video tape everything, write down what the camera saw, then give us the transcripts? It sounds like a huge amount of work with zero profit. Since it's a TV show, it seems pretty obvious that there are working TVs available.

Quote by: Harris

It is smarter to do a lot of work now to build a versatile system that could give us books and lots of other things LATER... but CAN that "lot of work" be done now? And which is wanted more? A bigger system that does lots of new things in the future, and nothing now? Or a smaller system that adds in a new toy that many would enjoy (and ONLY add in that toy) right now?


CMJ has stated his plate's full. We've still got the weather system coming, the rest of the Stranger encounter, more server updates, so forth. As for getting the community devs to do it - My personal opinion is that it's smarter to do things right than to do them fast. Read CMJ's lamentations when rewriting Dwellings.

And this x5 or so:
Quote by: Harris

Quote by: Beeps

Why make the wiki when we have the wiki?


Quote by: Harris

In-character explanation of why you know something.


My experience with the wiki is that it's misinformation and scene logs, the former of which is very easy to get in-character and the latter is... Well, why would someone tell you to look up "That time when Dave ran around the island" instead of telling you about it?
Beeps has done personal research on subjects he's interested in. He doesn't necessarily read the Enquirer, but he has a reasonable explanation for most knowledge he has, and if questioned on something he hasn't explicitly stated he researched, "Oh, I read it in the Enquirer," would be enough explanation for most people. They wouldn't need proof that he did - Especially since your library system doesn't offer any.
My point here is that if anyone cared enough about where they got their information that they roleplayed doing research on a subject, they wouldn't need a system that puts a copy of this information in a completely private, semi-out-of-character location while making the information unavailable to others. This sounds more like an argument for getting people to roleplay reading the Enquirer and less any sort of valid point for why the library system suggested would be an improvement.
The entire design seems like a lot of work to create a redundant system that gives people the ability to lay claim and limit access to information that's still available if you ignore said system and continue roleplaying as people are currently.
You ask how it wouldn't be an improvement - I ask how it would. It's a big "idea" project that you can't create yourself. It's not the job of those who have the ability to make it to convince you it's a bad idea (Unless you're a manager, I guess). It's yours to convince them it's worth their time to make your idea instead of theirs. Spending more time focusing on "You're wrong and I'm right" arguments than actually making points doesn't do this.

If you wanted to make information more available in-story, I would suggest making something in the Museum. There's already a computer terminal there - Have it be a repository for user information. The "check-out" system generally seems needless to me, and just having the "read an entry here" option fills the need for a place to get information - Even though we already have four libraries to do that in.


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Count Sessine
 Monday, February 28 2011 @ 10:43 PM UTC  
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It's not the job of those who have the ability to make it to convince you it's a bad idea (Unless you're a manager, I guess).


For the record -- the parenthesis made me laugh out loud.


 
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Beeps
 Monday, February 28 2011 @ 10:47 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

It's not the job of those who have the ability to make it to convince you it's a bad idea (Unless you're a manager, I guess).


For the record -- the parenthesis made me laugh out loud.


I think we've all had one of those managers at one point.


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Cousjava
 Tuesday, March 01 2011 @ 05:12 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Count+Sessine

It's not the job of those who have the ability to make it to convince you it's a bad idea (Unless you're a manager, I guess).


For the record -- the parenthesis made me laugh out loud.


I think we've all had one of those managers at one point.



I thought that was the point of government?


A table, a chair, a bowl of fruit and a trombone; what else does a man need to be happy?
 
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