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Ryushi
 Sunday, March 06 2011 @ 06:39 PM UTC  
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When i try to make a memento, it keeps saying i don't have enough donator points... which i don't... but i want to spend cobblestones.

Am i doing something wrong?

Oh, and distract me... i RARELY check this forum.


 
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Maniak
 Sunday, March 06 2011 @ 06:47 PM UTC  
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You need supporter points for the first Memento, the one with the mold. Subsequent mementos can be bought with cobblestones.


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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Sunday, March 06 2011 @ 08:43 PM UTC  


I would love to have a cheaper one-off mold. Or a same-price one-off mold. Or a mold that you can customize how many uses you want to get out of it. Yes, that one. Customizable, or in a range of smaller batches. Like a 5-use mold.

Like Calliaphone commented, being able to send 50 Dented Bottlecaps to people would be plenty fun, but the most important things I'd want to send would be more unique than that. For example, Esc wouldn't paint the exact same Painting of a Cow every time she wanted to draw a picture for someone. And if I only made the one copy of that... well, that's a bit of a waste, isn't it?

ALSO: This system is cool and I like it! I would gladly sink real cash into messing with this.


 
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Derp derp
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 01:44 AM UTC  
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Amazing. Now how about making this work for actual shops? And if we make the economy based on Cobblestones, then it doesn't completely wreck the req economy.


 
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Mogar
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 06:44 AM UTC  
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With mementos created that can be consumed,
I think that a consume option should only replace the use option if selected to do so in the creation of the memento mould. I think mementos should have the option to be consumable, usable, or both (for extra DP and two flavour text options).

Now, assuming buffs would be something that can be associated with mementos and that mementos could be consumable...
Usable mementos with a buff would work more like AceHigh Cake, with infinite uses and a short-lasting, weak(?) buff. Open the red music box, "listen, do a jig, get energized to pummel monsters", etc.
A consumable memento should then have the capability to have a stronger buff since it can only be used once to obtain that buff. Eat the Golden-Brown Marshmallow, "get SUPER-MEGA energized to pummel monsters", etc.
A memento that has the option to be consumed or used would then be able to have the weak buff for using it or the strong buff for consuming it. Use the radioactive rock, "have the ability to hit monsters a little harder with it". Eat the radioactive rock, "Hey, it works like that snake oil Salesman' snake oil!", get SUPER-MEGA energized to pummel monsters.
Buffs should also cost more DP, and debuffs should be available and function in the same manner.


 
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Trowa
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 03:17 PM UTC  
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That would be interesting to have a list of buffs to select from, like "+attack", "+defense", "+HP", "+stam", or even weaponized mementos like grenades. All significantly weaker than their in-game programmed counterparts and/or with limited durations, but still, that'd be neat.

Memento: Cheaply Distilled Moonshine
Text: It's a clear bottle of hooch!
Consume: You feel invigorated and capable of anything! ..but you're probably going to make poor decisions.
Buff: Attack +5, 5 rounds



Sort of like a portable version of drinks or items available at specific outposts, just weaker.


Memento: Plastic-wrapped Cake on a Paper Plate
Text: Delicious white cake with vanilla butter-cream frosting, ready to eat at any time thanks to the durable plasticwrap.
Consume: You feel slightly full of cake!
Buff: Defense +5, 5 rounds


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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calliaphone
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 03:54 PM UTC  
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Perhaps this is all for a bit further down the line, but since we're talking about buffs etc ...

what about the effect of the maker's race, or skill level, on the items they produce? I mean, any human or mutant or midget might make cakes or jewellery or whatnot. But if you want a bit of cake that does more than barely-there eensy-weensy stam boost or attack/defence enhancement ... then perhaps the maker ought to have earned a bit of skill in this department. Or else be improbably lucky. And perh-haps... if the maker is putting some joker-magic into the equation, then there could be the risk of it backfiring.

of course, that'd be a bummer if it cost a lot to make and then went wrong. but sort-of in keeping with the whole joker aesthetic, maybe.


 
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Maniak
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 04:50 PM UTC  
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There is just one problem I have with adding attack/def buffs to mementos, no matter how small. Each extra buff amplifies the next and this spirals outwards.

Say I have 10 base attack. Add 5%, I now have 10+0.5.
Add another memento of 5%, I now have 10+1.025.
One more weak buff, 10+1.576.
Another one, 10+2.15.

Up until this point, it's all fun. Now we'll mix all the other buffs, like weapons, pubs, races, clans, implants and TADAA: +50000 attack. Mementos will go from light-hearted roleplay items to unbalanced and mandatory items for powerplayers. If I can take Titans down by myself in a couple of shots, costs for the trinket won't matter. It'll pay for itself in req or be far too expensive for anyone to bother with.

Now, if there was a negative aspect and an accompanying positive one, it could be interesting. Fights give 50% more req, but experience gained is halved? Actions cost more stamina, but you learn more? You encounter fewer monsters while traveling, but those monsters you do find are tougher?


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Trowa
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 05:55 PM UTC  
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Hm, well, I just assumed there'd be a way to prevent that, say by only allowing use of one memento at a time or something? I would think they'd all have the same object property/class/jiggery pokery programmy name...?


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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Kallio
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 06:08 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Maniak

There is just one problem I have with adding attack/def buffs to mementos, no matter how small. Each extra buff amplifies the next and this spirals outwards.

Say I have 10 base attack. Add 5%, I now have 10+0.5.
Add another memento of 5%, I now have 10+1.025.
One more weak buff, 10+1.576.
Another one, 10+2.15.

Up until this point, it's all fun. Now we'll mix all the other buffs, like weapons, pubs, races, clans, implants and TADAA: +50000 attack. Mementos will go from light-hearted roleplay items to unbalanced and mandatory items for powerplayers. If I can take Titans down by myself in a couple of shots, costs for the trinket won't matter. It'll pay for itself in req or be far too expensive for anyone to bother with.

Now, if there was a negative aspect and an accompanying positive one, it could be interesting. Fights give 50% more req, but experience gained is halved? Actions cost more stamina, but you learn more? You encounter fewer monsters while traveling, but those monsters you do find are tougher?


Possibly it would work out okay if buffs could only be built into consumable mementos? Or maybe if you could only stack a certain number of buffs from mementos, and had to carefully choose which buffs to use at any given time?
Although, the second option could prove problematic if not combined with the first. If permanent, buffed mementos were available, even with a buff-stacking limit, players could build up a large collection of buffed mementos and pick whichever ones fit the circumstances. That could take a lot of the excitement out of being a joker, since you could, to some extent, use your mementos to counteract whatever you're bad at each day.
Though I suppose you could mostly get around that problem by putting round-limits on the buffs and only allowing players to choose which buffs to use once per game day.

Buffs coming with related debuffs sounds like a lot of fun. I'd especially like to see what it would be like to use one which grants travel speed at the expense of fighting ability.


 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 07:00 PM UTC  
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I say Mementos should be RP-only, as initially conceived.

Once you let them affect gameplay, even slightly... well, you'd think, "Oh, what could it hurt?" The discussion in this thread shows what it will hurt: it undermines the entire concept. Immediately, the idea turns into buff stacking, and stats, and game balance, and finding ways to use them for character advantage, and... no. Just no. That's not what they ought to be.

No buffs. Not even weak ones. What they ought to be is personal mementos. Period.

Being able to (optionally) display a memento in your bio -- that's important.

Being able to (optionally) make a graphic that displays in your bio -- that's important.

If they're set up that way we will see an extraordinary outburst of player creativity in personalizing their characters that will rival what happened with dwellings.

Distributing multiple copies should not be the norm but the rare exception: Clan badges, wedding invitations, sure. But most of them should be unique, personal, and of deep significance to the player who displays them.


 
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Beeps
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 07:05 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Distributing multiple copies should not be the norm but the rare exception: Clan badges, wedding invitations, sure. But most of them should be unique, personal, and of deep significance to the player who displays them.


Agreed, though the current setup definitely doesn't seem to reflect this. Making duplicates cost less, or optionally a currency that people have been stockpiling with no outlet for months, makes it seem like the system is advocating making a few dozen of an item if you make one - Why not, after all? You've paid $2 for the item, and duplicates are basically free.

I'd like to reiterate my desire to be able to display Mementos in dwellings - Either for sale, as Derp mentioned, or as a display case. My ORD has uses for both.


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Buddleia
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 07:26 PM UTC  
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Ok, this looks like an awesome idea, but I have a few points to make.

I agree with Calliaphone and Escemfer particularly on the pricing. The way it is set up, I have no plans to use this system. Not even for "Buddleia's Fliers" with all the tinyurls. It favours mass production by people who can afford to throw hundreds of supporter points away on a whim, not people who want to make interesting and amusing trinkets to give on the spur of the moment, or even people who want to make meaningful gifts for special friends. If they were cheaper, if you paid a sensible up-front fee and then could make individual (unique) mementos very cheaply, I would be more interested.

I also very strongly agree with Sessine about their use. Mementos should be personal items that mean something to the characters giving and recieving, not just yet another buff, yet another way of exchanging supporter points (yes, or cobblestones - I do love the idea of this as a use for them) for game bonuses. However, this discussion seems to be polarising the group a little. Some favor them as gameplay enhancers, but I am very much in favor of them as "just" roleplay aids. If they are to have buffs, I vote for those being very, very small, and very, very expensive compared to a "normal", just-roleplay memento. Perhaps even with a different name, e.g., talismens. Or even Adjective Noun of Nouns.

It would be good to be able to display them in bios. Perhaps after the Trophies section. That could be a tick-box or something in the Inventory screen.

I like the Drop On Map feature, but it would be oh so awesome to be able to put them in rooms in houses. But you can't see your inventory from in a house, so maybe that will have to wait until Season Three ...

Also: the Hunter's Lodge says that they can be sent via the gifting station in Kittania - this should be the Common Grounds, surely?


Improbable Reference Links - goo.gl/MRBnb -------------- Land Registry (map of Places) ---- goo.gl/bpkRR
 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 08:32 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Distributing multiple copies should not be the norm but the rare exception: Clan badges, wedding invitations, sure. But most of them should be unique, personal, and of deep significance to the player who displays them.


Agreed, though the current setup definitely doesn't seem to reflect this. Making duplicates cost less, or optionally a currency that people have been stockpiling with no outlet for months, makes it seem like the system is advocating making a few dozen of an item if you make one - Why not, after all? You've paid $2 for the item, and duplicates are basically free.

I'd like to reiterate my desire to be able to display Mementos in dwellings - Either for sale, as Derp mentioned, or as a display case. My ORD has uses for both.

Yes. You're right about the pricing structure influencing how people will use it.

The pricing ought to be $x for a one-off mould, and 2 * $x, plus a low per-copy cost, for a mould that can make multiple copies.

A display case in a dwelling would fit nicely with the concept. But mementos should not be for sale! Gifts? yes. Sale...? absolutely not. Not even for cobblestones.


 
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Matthew
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 08:35 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Distributing multiple copies should not be the norm but the rare exception: Clan badges, wedding invitations, sure. But most of them should be unique, personal, and of deep significance to the player who displays them.



Yes. Perhaps the 50-mold should be more expensive, and a single, one-use mold option should be available at a cheaper price or maybe just for Cobblestones. I can't think of many roleplay items that I'd want to mass produce.


 
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Beeps
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 08:39 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Yes. You're right about the pricing structure influencing how people will use it.

The pricing ought to be $x for a one-off mould, and 2 * $x, plus a low per-copy cost, for a mould that can make multiple copies.

A display case in a dwelling would fit nicely with the concept. But mementos should not be for sale! Gifts? yes. Sale...? absolutely not. Not even for cobblestones.


But my soda machine! Cry
Honestly, just some way to have an automatic dispenser would be nice. For the exact same reason. I want a vending machine, even if it's busted and gives out items for free.
(Or one of those "take a number" ticket dispensers for the Bordello? Wink )

Another... rough... topic - What about recycling mementos? I've been finding a lot of garbage mementos (One that was ascii breasts, nothing else. Really? Come on, people), and while I don't mind helping keep the island clean, it'd be kind of nice if we could turn them in for cobblestones or something.


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Hairy Mary
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 08:53 PM UTC  
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I'm with Beeps here. Mementos could be used for all sorts of things, lets not limit their flexibility. Yes, one of their principle uses will be for hand made gifts for each other, but there will be many other surprises that people could come up with. Some of them may involve making lots of copies. Some might be production line items for sale, as Beeps would like.

Like dwellings, which were conceived as, well, dwellings. Places which could be built to live in. They've been used for all sorts of things. From train stations to tricksy non-crates to fool people.

Lets give as much scope for the imagination to roam in as possible, rather than trying to limit them to our preconceived ideas.

With buffs on the other hand, I reluctantly agree that that probably would be a bad idea.

Being able to display them in dwellings would be great. I for one would be tempted to start contributing books to the various libraries around the place.


 
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Kallio
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 09:01 PM UTC  
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A thought: Mementos, if they remain a roleplay-only item, provide a Hunter's Lodge item which will be bought repeatedly by the same players, but which does not grant any real extra power to the people who donate. Previously, the only items like that have been the special comment quills, since I suspect that most people who plan to change their titles and name colors with any frequency buy the permanent versions of those items fairly quickly. Most items which are likely to be bought repeatedly are things like Cigarette Boxes or Builder's Brews which have an actual effect on the game. Mementos are popular, repeatable, and absolutely unnecessary to gameplay, and I think that's truly excellent.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 09:22 PM UTC  
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Oh, I'm gonna be giving Mementos a jolly good tweak this week, make no mistake.

Update:
Using the CobbleStone option, Memento copies now cost xx CobbleStones and one Supporter Point. That should cut down on the spam.
You can now put in plural names (used mostly on the World Map).
Mementos can now be shown or hidden from your Bio.

Upcoming:
A Dwellings option to check for the presence of a given Memento and replace flavour text if true.
Pricing adjustments.

A quick reminder:
Mementos aren't anonymous. They keep track of who made what, and it'd be the work of a moment to show that info in your Inventory (this Supply Crate spam created by...).


 
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Beeps
 Monday, March 07 2011 @ 09:29 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Oh, I'm gonna be giving Mementos a jolly good tweak this week, make no mistake.

Update:
Using the CobbleStone option, Memento copies now cost xx CobbleStones and one Supporter Point. That should cut down on the spam.


Best penny I ever spent. This actually pretty well with the rest of the WCG stuff - Get enough cobblestones and supporter points to make five copies a day.

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Upcoming:
A Dwellings option to check for the presence of a given Memento and replace flavour text if true.


I'm curious about this. Replace flavour text how?

Quote by: CavemanJoe

A quick reminder:
Mementos aren't anonymous. They keep track of who made what, and it'd be the work of a moment to show that info in your Inventory (this Supply Crate spam created by...).


It also helps when the spam lists a dwelling, and the creator of them is proudly pushing the mementos on people.

The addition of the hide/show option seems to be making my current collection of Mementos even longer. I now have two single Memento1s (One which had been shown in my bio for a moment and one that hadn't) and two grouped Memento2s in my backpack.


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