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Buddleia
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 03:39 PM UTC (Read 8341 times)  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

The current system doesn't support this [sideways doors], and the current system is a pain in the arse. We'll be making a new one fairly soon.


With that in mind, I'm leaping in to make this thread now. Dwellings are umpteen flavours of awesome, but there is a lot more that could be done with them, from simple fixes to new features. If you're going to be making a new system anyway ... here is a collection of ideas - from many different threads all over the forum, from various discussions, and from my own strange mind.

Discuss, please? Any more ideas? Please comment on these, and please add your own ideas. Let's get an idea for what the community wants, and, hopefully, what is feasible.

Problem: ghosts, and looooooooong lists of people.
Suggestions:

  • Automatic removal system of expired accounts from house displays
  • Proton pack: IItem for removing ghosts
  • Feature for owners to alter display of ghosts (e.g. "A pinata that looks like Rookie Sam the Cat" or "Declan the Hat Rack")
  • Display name list with commas rather than line breaks (as a pref?)
  • Hide/show list of people (e.g. "Looking around, you see X people. Click here to see who")


Problem: expired accounts and campers taking up sleep spots.
Suggestions:

  • Automated kicking system if people have been there longer than X time (perhaps owner-set?)
  • Weekly or monthly check-and-kick of all sleep spots for expired accounts, or for accounts that have not logged in for, say, a month. Or even a global kick of everyone in all sleep spots: this would hardly affect people who actually play - they can just get back in when they're ready to Newday - but would remove the ghosts and dog-in-the-manger campers who occupy a spot without getting any benefit.
  • Give a log out option in dwellings without having to take a sleep spot - so that when you log back in, you're back in the room, without having triggered a Newday. (I just close the tab, but it seems that most people like to actually log out.)
  • Make non-owners (keyholders? in designated rooms only?) able to kick people from sleep spots. Maybe just for ghosts?


Problem: can't find people in large dwellings.
Suggestions:
  • Doorbell function (customisable?) for visitors to alert people inside that they've arrived. From first room? From map square if building locked?
  • Intercom for people to shout "we're in room X, down Y hallway!"?
  • Readout list of who is in which room (for owners only or for all?)
  • Owner function: list all rooms that have non-expired commentary


Problem: more functions needed for Keys
Suggestions:
  • Section-only master key: allow build jobs, decoration, ?kicking, and locking control for one room or one branch only.
  • Skeleton Key: allows all locks to be opened/shut, but no other functions
  • Tick-boxes to select attributes when cutting keys
  • Revoke keys or change locks function for owners
  • Return key function for people who have been given keys
  • List issued keys (type, room, person) screen
  • Donate cigs function - like for teleport beacons - for owners to use for Keys functions



Misc Suggestions for improvements:

Owner functions and display
  • Toggle owner's controls display on/off - shorten sidebar link for easy access - switch between Default View and Owner View. Collapsing the list would be especially good for users on mobiles and those who like hotkeys.
  • Fix first-room display bug for owners (see here)
  • Owners to be able to eject unwanted guests
  • Owners to be able to set show/hide list of people present, by room


Ease of building
  • See which deco jobs are set when you don't have the deco kit
  • See jobs when you're below 60% stamina
  • See their progress without working on them (e.g. "Decorate room X: 27/159 turns") like we can for construction jobs.
  • Display stamina required to do building/deco actions
  • Build x5, build x10, and or build until out of stamina/materials buttons


Construction and navigation
  • Sideways doors linking rooms - this is one of the most requested features.
  • Delete rooms/sleep spots/build jobs
  • Fix the bug that makes build jobs disappear!


Descriptions
  • Time-sensitive descriptions, like the Weather system - do deco work for all descriptions, chosing which will display in which time-slot
  • Noticeboards (see Labs)
  • Link in to weather system: owners can set rooms as inside/outside (defaulting to inside) so that the graphics change with the weather
  • Differential deco costs: if making a small change to an already-there description, turns required is only the difference between, not the whole new one
  • Fix room name truncation bug: allow apostrophes (e.g. "Buddleia's Suite", "Edith's Room", not just "Buddleia" and "Edith" - because "Explore Buddleia" and "You cannot enter Edith" just looks wrong)
  • Have rooms - or transitions between rooms - appear differently depending whether you're coming or going (e.g. "you go up the stairs" and "you slide down the bannister")
  • Fix bleed-through of formatting. If you don't close colours, bold, italics, or even alignment, they go on through to commentary and nav links - from dwelling and room names as well as from descriptions.


Furniture
  • Donation pool for cigs for furniture - or a store for people to gift furniture to a dwelling.
  • Possibly, others to place furniture from the store? (Note: furniture can be gifted in the CG, but this only helps for active players.)
  • Switch furniture, not just overwrite with new. Move to different spots, take for customising, buy-back?


Misc
  • Add Preferences link to dwellings
  • Add List Contestants link
  • Add Clan Halls link
  • Each clan to be able to link to one dwelling (designate one room?) from their halls, so that clannies can explore and chat in the house, but not exit to map square. Owner to set linked room as clannies only or public.
  • Put down and pick up mementos in rooms
  • Always have Back to entrance and Back to Map as standard hotkeys


Wilder ideas - probably would be whole new modules
  • Link two or more dwellings together so that you can explore and chat in one mega-place, but leave by the one you came in (Common Grounds style)
  • Move dwellings from one mapsquare to another (80 cigs? 100?)
  • Sleeping bags - furniture that comes with you, that you can use in any sleep spot
  • Storage lockers for meat? Kitchen function, get more stamina from cooking? Restaurant function - sell food?
  • Vending machines? (Owned by who? Costs? Supplies?)
  • Games?
  • Memento shops?
  • Monster encounters?
  • Healing (?supplied by owner/donators bringing medkits)?
  • ATMs?
  • Mechanism for willing a dwelling to a person or a clan in case you leave
  • Mechanisms - automatic, for owners and for visitors - to flag up unwanted dwellings, and for mods to mark them as "do not delete". See here for some ideas (land tax? one plot per square per person? automatic "for sale" on undeveloped-after-certain-time plots?)


Improbable Reference Links - goo.gl/MRBnb -------------- Land Registry (map of Places) ---- goo.gl/bpkRR
 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 05:07 PM UTC  
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Move dwellings from one mapsquare to another (80 cigs? 100?)

I would suggest that for dwellings, relocation ought be very, very expensive. It should be an extremely rare event, something that is wanted very badly and saved up for over a period of time, possibly by a large group of people. I'm thinking thousands of cigs, not hundreds. On the order of clan buffs! Start at 1000 cigs for a one-room dwelling, and go on up depending on the number of rooms. Dunbernarding should be pretty much impossible to move. (Sorry, Dave!)

The reason I say this is that the accumulated dwellings provide a 'sense of place' for all players. They are landmarks that help make the Island what it is. If moving a dwelling is made too accessible, that will destroy something valuable and important.

On the other hand, mobile dwellings -- like buses and boats and the backs of giant turtles -- are part of a concept mooted earlier, called Tents. Tents, as I understand them, would work somewhat like dwellings, and have a very similar structure technically, but would require regular maintenance. Or, um... feeding.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 05:39 PM UTC  
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The reason I say this is that the accumulated dwellings provide a 'sense of place' for all players. They are landmarks that help make the Island what it is. If moving a dwelling is made too accessible, that will destroy something valuable and important.


On the other hand, the move of Pleasantville Station was very welcomed. I'm not totally sure that we need the sense of permanent landmarking on the island. It's an improbable island, after all, and moreover, people who don't care for the Harry Potter series still love the idea of a castle with moving staircases and doors that lead to different places on different days of the week and times of the day.

I think it might be a neat development for people to start moving their dwellings around every couple weeks for a hundred or so cigs each time.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 05:52 PM UTC  
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Oooh. We could make dwellings constantly moving, and able to attack each other. It'll be just like Mortal Engines.


 
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Trowa
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 05:53 PM UTC  
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I do agree that moving dwellings would be very improbable (read: "cool!"), but on the other hand, like Sessine pointed out, enormous dwellings moving around would be crazy!

Or would that just more improbable?

Anyway, I liker the idea of "tents", or simply put, special movable dwellings. I could finally design a Howl's Moving Castle! Big Grin


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Maniak
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 08:03 PM UTC  
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What I wouldn't give for a movable Supply Crate. I can only imagine the look on all your faces. It would certainly be fun for *me*.

That said, I'd much prefer a x5 or x10 option on chopping trees/cutting rocks and masonry/carpentry/decorating. That stuff gets tedious when you have a Builders Brew.

Besides that, my most desired features are
-the ability to set down a piece of furniture in a dwelling that isn't my own.
-the automated kicking of deleted accounts.
-deletable rooms.
-a very cleaned up nav list.
-doors.
-auto closing of tags (but this is a global problem - it's not just dwellings. It's in bios, mementos and chat as well).

I'll clarify on the nav list. I wouldn't mind if the materials stock was accessible only from the dwelling entrance. Same with a few of the other options like available decoration jobs. All dwelling owner options could be hidden in a collapsible fold out tree, much like how the donation slot works. The current nav bar is very cobbled together.

I'm not holding my breath for any of these things. That is one massive list of feature requests. I'm glad I'm not CMJ right now.

ATMs?

*snickers* This one is done for all I care, just needs to be approved Wink


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Hairy Mary
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 08:56 PM UTC  
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Quote by: dizzyizzy

Oooh. We could make dwellings constantly moving, and able to attack each other. It'll be just like Mortal Engines.



Are you...are you suggesting merging scrapbots with dwellings? Eek!
Some sort of opt in system where you can buy some sort of weaponry and armour for your dwelling for large amounts of cigs and then lose it all again wandering around fighting each other or titans? Only so much control can be achieved from one room, so team effort is required?
Just what sort of crazy insane lunatic are you?

---

Back to the main thread. Buddlia, that's an amazing list that you've made there.
Personal favourates - Connecting rooms and all the "Can't find people in your large place" list. Oh and the clearing up the sidebar thing.


 
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Anna Dewhurst
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 09:18 PM UTC  
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I can only imagine the look on all your faces.

Angry


But! On topic, I would be. So. HAPPY. ... if we could have tick-boxes for keys and free transport to clan dwellings.


 
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Beeps
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 09:31 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Buddleia


Wilder ideas - probably would be whole new modules

  • Link two or more dwellings together so that you can explore and chat in one mega-place, but leave by the one you came in (Common Grounds style)
  • Move dwellings from one mapsquare to another (80 cigs? 100?)
  • Sleeping bags - furniture that comes with you, that you can use in any sleep spot
  • Storage lockers for meat? Kitchen function, get more stamina from cooking? Restaurant function - sell food?
  • Vending machines? (Owned by who? Costs? Supplies?)
  • Games?
  • Memento shops?
  • Monster encounters?
  • Healing (?supplied by owner/donators bringing medkits)?
  • ATMs?
  • Mechanism for willing a dwelling to a person or a clan in case you leave
  • Mechanisms - automatic, for owners and for visitors - to flag up unwanted dwellings, and for mods to mark them as "do not delete". See here for some ideas (land tax? one plot per square per person? automatic "for sale" on undeveloped-after-certain-time plots?)



Vending Machines, Games, Memento Shops, ATMs, so forth are all things I believe would be entirely doable with modules - Use the card collecting as an example here. There was an ATM module written and posted by Maniak that, while not for dwellings, could probably be worked into a dwelling version. The main problem I see here is the continuing issues with the Labs and correspondence regarding modules in general, which we were told would be "Written about soon" back in... early March? Late February? I've stated before - The reason I stopped work on the modules I was writing was because currently, the likelihood of getting a new, player-created module added - or even commented on - is essentially nil.

On the topic of things that I'd like to see:
I'd like the ability to disable chat in a room entirely, for storytelling purposes. No one needs to be able to comment on page 7 of the third book on the second shelf of my bookcase.
For "Wilder" things, I'd love some sort of tree system for the lock display. 72 rooms is hard to navigate in a list. It's even harder when four rooms are named the same, and the only way to figure out which is which is to compare the room IDs, which means tracking the room down anyway.

Quote by: Maniak

That said, I'd much prefer a x5 or x10 option on chopping trees/cutting rocks and masonry/carpentry/decorating. That stuff gets tedious when you have a Builders Brew.


Argh. I did say I'd look into code for that back a few weeks ago, didn't I? I posted code for Cuthbert's and Maiko's... I'll take a look at that, see if I can come up with something.


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Mothball
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 09:46 PM UTC  
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Not just the ability to delete rooms, but the ability to rearrange them as well.
Would be nice, we think.


 
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Beeps
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 09:57 PM UTC  
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This is probably too lazy of an implementation to work, though it seems like it should.

I realized I posted the loose code for the material store handling changes I made (Options to drop/pick up half of a pile, so one can bisect a large number of logs) on the Labs, but not the actual code, which I will rectify right now.


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Iriana
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 11:05 PM UTC  
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Quote by: dizzyizzy

It'll be just like Mortal Engines.


I didn't know anyone else had ever read those books! They gave me the best dreams.

Budd deserves a round of applause for the very comprehensive original post--I think she's got everything, and put it together in a nice Budd-organized list.

I agree with Sessine that dwellings should stay more or less put. While we clamor for train stations to be moved onto outpost squares and rejoice when Pleasantville Station actually is moved, there's something to be said for the basic layout of the Island staying mostly static. It's improbable, yes, for houses to up and take a walk to the other side of the Island, but it'd also get confusing, especially for newer players.

The stations are different, because they would only be moved a few squares, and then are there to stay on the new spot. It's not the same as a dwelling being next to Ace one day and down on the beaches by NewHome the next day.

But I think the option should exist--I've been sort of wanting to move my dwelling myself, and to have an attainable goal to move it, even if that goal is in the thousands of cigs, would be very nice.

However! Mobile dwellings sound absolutely delightful. I look forward, sometime in the distant future, to be able to stalk people across the Island in one of those selective storm clouds you see in cartoons.

Things I would be eternally grateful for include
1 collapsible owner options;
2 multiple-action options for building (x5, x10, xtill you drop);
3 deleting build jobs, rooms, and sleeping spaces;
4 fixed hotkeys for to entrance and to map; and
5 seeing deco jobs and progress, without needing a deco kit. And, though I don't need it, the proton pack Buddleia suggested for the sheer badassery.

Dwellings are just so cool. I really do enjoy building immensely. I hope to see the whole system become even cooler.

[size=9
...I feel like I haven't added anything of interest, which is probably true.[/size]


 
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Beeps
 Tuesday, April 19 2011 @ 11:09 PM UTC  
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All I can imagine for mobile dwellings is someone taming a Titan and building onto its head or something.

Which is awesome.


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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, April 20 2011 @ 03:16 AM UTC  
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I think it's honestly overstated how important the sense of permanence with dwellings is. Dwellings are a neat feature that we now can come across as we explore the island. They're an outlet of creative description or other storytelling for players that last longer than the chat. They give you the idea that there's more on the island than a bunch of trees on every square that isn't an outpost. They do loads of things, too many for me to try to list anything remotely comprehensive.

But they're not bastions of familiarity in a dangerous game. It's not like you get eaten by Red Bulborbs if you don't get back to a sleeping spot before nighttime falls. It's not like we'll have total confusion and players wandering aimlessly with Apathy Syndrome because they can't find the Supply Crate. We won't incite a mutiny or a revolution because Dunbernarding gets moved to a beach.

Being able to move a dwelling for 50 cigs (or perhaps 50 cigs + 2 cigs per room or something similar) is probably going to be a lot more fun than it will be harmful to the game. Players can then start to construct "dwellings" that aren't dwellings at all, but just movable semi-permanent objects that can be seen by all players. People will enter AT-AT Walkers and Incredibly Low-Flying Slow-Speed Cruise Missiles as they advance just one map square per day, or something faster. Players might enter a MultiShot Teleporting Chamber, where the owner then moves the dwelling while 20 people are in it, and they leave the building to come out on the other side of the map.

And maybe the feature just won't be used much beyond just putting their place in a more desirable location than what they first thought would be fine. If that's the case, well, nothing lost.


 
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Beeps
 Wednesday, April 20 2011 @ 04:14 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

I think it's honestly overstated how important the sense of permanence with dwellings is. Dwellings are a neat feature that we now can come across as we explore the island. They're an outlet of creative description or other storytelling for players that last longer than the chat. They give you the idea that there's more on the island than a bunch of trees on every square that isn't an outpost. They do loads of things, too many for me to try to list anything remotely comprehensive.

But they're not bastions of familiarity in a dangerous game. It's not like you get eaten by Red Bulborbs if you don't get back to a sleeping spot before nighttime falls. It's not like we'll have total confusion and players wandering aimlessly with Apathy Syndrome because they can't find the Supply Crate. We won't incite a mutiny or a revolution because Dunbernarding gets moved to a beach.

Being able to move a dwelling for 50 cigs (or perhaps 50 cigs + 2 cigs per room or something similar) is probably going to be a lot more fun than it will be harmful to the game. Players can then start to construct "dwellings" that aren't dwellings at all, but just movable semi-permanent objects that can be seen by all players. People will enter AT-AT Walkers and Incredibly Low-Flying Slow-Speed Cruise Missiles as they advance just one map square per day, or something faster. Players might enter a MultiShot Teleporting Chamber, where the owner then moves the dwelling while 20 people are in it, and they leave the building to come out on the other side of the map.

And maybe the feature just won't be used much beyond just putting their place in a more desirable location than what they first thought would be fine. If that's the case, well, nothing lost.



On one hand, I agree. On the other, I really agree.

Honestly, I'd like to see more things that are changing. Like a wandering outpost. Honestly, if any kind of dwelling had the ability to be mobile, it should have Titan-like qualities of being "heard" from a distance away, so you could seek it out. But I would love to see more things that give the island's real estate more value than "Wood," "Stone," and "Building space." The only reasons to go out are for wood, stone, titans, crates or exploring, the last two of which are uncommon to find anything useful. And with teleport beacons, I'd imagine there's even less wandering the island - You can just zap yourself where you need to go.

I understand that the Failboat was implemented when Disgrace was removed because people were hanging out in it, but now we have people getting KOed to go hang out on the Failboat. Make the Failboat actually circle the island? Have a half-cost version of resurrection where you simply get tossed overboard, and have to swim back? Big Grin

As for not-dwelling dwellings, I'd like to see more of this on the Island in general! I'm considering making a second one, now that the Billboard is getting unexpectedly large inside. I want one that's actually a simple, single-room thing.


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dizzyizzy
 Wednesday, April 20 2011 @ 05:02 AM UTC  
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This is something I talked about with beeps a while ago, and it was all complicated with modules and stuff. But maybe it can be options here:

I'd like several things:

1) the ability to remove any and all nav links, other than the "return to world map" one.
2) The ability to set the weather in dwellings. The background does an awesome job setting tone, and it would be pretty sweet if we could have rooms where it's always raining.
3) Disable chat
4) Change the "Enter X room" text.

This would allow players to write their own story-quest things, which I think would be AWESOME.


 
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Beeps
 Wednesday, April 20 2011 @ 06:53 AM UTC  
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Man, I've been really bad about typing responses and not posting them tonight.

I'll be honest here - I'm still thinking whatever you're going for would probably be better as a module. Request 1 and 3 would immediately be handled by dint of it not being the dwelling module. Request 2 and 3 would be nice, especially if the owner could set the weather in the room, but again, probably easier to do with a separate module, or perhaps just an addition to the timeandweather module for fake_local_weather or similar. I'm not sure what you mean by the fourth request - The room navigation text is only what you set it, though that does cause problems when navigating back, and the fact that that describes the room itself (A room whose navigation is "Climb the ladder" is also named "Climb the ladder", and in order to go back to it, you climb the ladder again). But I really think what you're asking for would be more easily done as a module, than trying to wrap the dwelling system around it.


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dizzyizzy
 Wednesday, April 20 2011 @ 09:15 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

Man, I've been really bad about typing responses and not posting them tonight.

I'll be honest here - I'm still thinking whatever you're going for would probably be better as a module. Request 1 and 3 would immediately be handled by dint of it not being the dwelling module. Request 2 and 3 would be nice, especially if the owner could set the weather in the room, but again, probably easier to do with a separate module, or perhaps just an addition to the timeandweather module for fake_local_weather or similar. I'm not sure what you mean by the fourth request - The room navigation text is only what you set it, though that does cause problems when navigating back, and the fact that that describes the room itself (A room whose navigation is "Climb the ladder" is also named "Climb the ladder", and in order to go back to it, you climb the ladder again). But I really think what you're asking for would be more easily done as a module, than trying to wrap the dwelling system around it.



Alright. And, uh, what I meant by the fourth one is I'm running on like no sleep at all. Yeah.


 
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Mothball
 Wednesday, April 20 2011 @ 11:32 AM UTC  
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Actually, the ability to remove Nav Links would be nice.
Say, for instance, you fell down a well. You're not going to be able to climb back up. It's a one way trip. But you could go explore the hidden catacombs or some such.


 
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Trowa
 Wednesday, April 20 2011 @ 01:16 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Mothball

Actually, the ability to remove Nav Links would be nice.
Say, for instance, you fell down a well. You're not going to be able to climb back up. It's a one way trip. But you could go explore the hidden catacombs or some such.



I think that would be a neat option. Some people have made "choose your adventure" style dwellings where you make a choice, and it results in something you shouldn't be able to just go "oh, let me go back and make the other choice." Even those style of books (ohgawd, I had a Super Mario Bros. book like that where you could tally up coins at the end it was so awesome! /tangent) get confusing when you're trying to go back like three choices and then you get lost and have to start over. Removing the "return" option in some rooms would make sense, while leaving the "Back to Dwelling Entrance" option.

I guess essentially what that means is: User-created quests. Whee!


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