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 Cobblestone Usage?
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LardDude32
 Sunday, December 11 2011 @ 02:02 PM UTC (Read 7305 times)  
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Hey, I signed up with World Community Grid and then connected it to the Cobblestone Cottage a while after.
...and I have 24,645 cobblestones waiting to spend. Is there any use for Cobblestone yet, or...?


 
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Docenspiel
 Sunday, December 11 2011 @ 03:32 PM UTC  
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Cobblestones' only use is to make copies of Mementos. However, the mould of a Memento (the first one you make of a specific Memento) requires Supporter Points. Which you will udoubtedly have if you have Cobblestones.

A little bit of fun info: Cobblestones apparently work like credit. If you make a copy of a Memento by spending SP, Cobblestones will still be subtracted from your total. I've been sitting on -250 of them for awhile.


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Awesome Fred
 Sunday, December 11 2011 @ 06:38 PM UTC  
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Cobblestones have not had anything to spend on other than Mementos, and even that took a long time since Cobblestones became acquirable. The reason is that at the end of the day, some people's computers greatly outpace others, to the point where there are some who currently hold tens of millions while the others feel high at three hundred thousand. In order to make the situation fair, since as a game philosophy the person with the better computer should not simply way outperform the one with a lesser one, no suitable expenditure, other than Mementos it seems, has been implemented yet.

Even though now that we have Altruism bars that benefit everybody, it seems completely obvious to me for Cobblestones to be usable for Meter Extends and all that.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Sunday, December 11 2011 @ 06:51 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Even though now that we have Altruism bars that benefit everybody, it seems completely obvious to me for Cobblestones to be usable for Meter Extends and all that.



<kryten>An excellent suggestion, sir, and one with only one minor drawback.</kryten>

I would have to live in a tree and eat sticks.


 
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Docenspiel
 Sunday, December 11 2011 @ 08:34 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Even though now that we have Altruism bars that benefit everybody, it seems completely obvious to me for Cobblestones to be usable for Meter Extends and all that.



An excellent suggestion, sir, and one with only one minor drawback.

I would have to live in a tree and eat sticks.



I don't know. Rent on trees has been rising lately. You might be able to afford a cozy spot under an overpass.


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LardDude32
 Sunday, December 11 2011 @ 09:29 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Docenspiel

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Even though now that we have Altruism bars that benefit everybody, it seems completely obvious to me for Cobblestones to be usable for Meter Extends and all that.



An excellent suggestion, sir, and one with only one minor drawback.

I would have to live in a tree and eat sticks.



I don't know. Rent on trees has been rising lately. You might be able to afford a cozy spot under an overpass.



And I hear that sticks are full of delicious nutrients and have no artificial flavours in them.
But thank you anyway, everybody.

...maybe we could you Cobblestones to help give outposts hit points? Seeing as though AceHigh's walls are being breached and I quite need them to be not breached so that I can grab the thing from their office and get outta there. The same goes with New Pittsburgh(?), the one with all the zombies in it.
It'd be cool if you could use them to add an extra hitpoint to the walls, or something like that.


 
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Docenspiel
 Sunday, December 11 2011 @ 09:51 PM UTC  
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Cobblestones would be more effective then the same old planks nailed up there time and again. Though I believe to do that, the Cobblestones code would have to be rewritten to work with the Reinforcement/Onslaught module. But I know nothing of programming.


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Count Sessine
 Sunday, December 11 2011 @ 11:32 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Docenspiel

Cobblestones would be more effective then the same old planks nailed up there time and again. Though I believe to do that, the Cobblestones code would have to be rewritten to work with the Reinforcement/Onslaught module. But I know nothing of programming.

Other way around: Onslaught would require changes to make use of Cobblestones.

...though, since outpost wall hit points are measured in the millions and vanish at the first touch of a titan, spending your cobblestones to reinforce the wall mightn't make a lot of long-term difference to the outpost's fortunes, unless they were worth a great deal more than planks.


 
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Matthew
 Monday, December 12 2011 @ 01:13 AM UTC  
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I do like the idea of using cobblestones for purposes that benefit everyone, and using them to strengthen the outpost walls (it even makes sense! they're rocks) seems like a perfect dump for them.

Ever since it first started, I've been running the WCG pretty much whenever I'm not using the computer, and I'm swimming in the things.


 
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LardDude32
 Monday, December 12 2011 @ 04:01 PM UTC  
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Maybe they could do? But just enough to make sure that Cobblestone doesn't become OP or anything like that.
But I think that it'd be a great thing to do since, as Matthew quite rightly says, people can be swimming in the things.

D'ya think it'd be possible to make this happen?


 
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LydiaDefountain
 Tuesday, December 13 2011 @ 04:12 AM UTC  
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Ya but to counter using cobblestones to help fortify the walls would likely end up in no breach ever unless a titan makes it to the door. Perhaps having a cobblestone filled meter with steep cobblestone prices that ad just a bit of a modifier to how much hp you ad a round.. say 1-2% modifier at most? or you buy a special item with a lot of cobblestones for a special wall brew that decreaces stamina costs for building the wall by like 10-25% not near as good as using normal builders brews and you can only buy so many a day...


or something..

or as someone else put it, we're helping fight cancer, getting free sp for it.. extra stamina boost.. get to do momento molds.. why do we really need more?


 
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Docenspiel
 Tuesday, December 13 2011 @ 04:52 AM UTC  
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or as someone else put it, we're helping fight cancer, getting free sp for it.. extra stamina boost.. get to do momento molds.. why do we really need more?



Um, because Cobblestones are a squandered resource only used by people who make multiples of the same Memento? We've got them. We don't use them and if we do, we can't use all of them. Why don't we find another use for them?
It doesn't have to be outpost hp, just something to actually make use of them in some way. At the very least, it might encourage more people to connect with the WCG.


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LydiaDefountain
 Tuesday, December 13 2011 @ 01:52 PM UTC  
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or as someone else put it, we're helping fight cancer, getting free sp for it.. extra stamina boost.. get to do momento molds.. why do we really need more?



Um, because Cobblestones are a squandered resource only used by people who make multiples of the same Memento? We've got them. We don't use them and if we do, we can't use all of them. Why don't we find another use for them?
It doesn't have to be outpost hp, just something to actually make use of them in some way. At the very least, it might encourage more people to connect with the WCG.



Well the thing is that people do have millions of these things... any cost for anything would have to be steep to even put a dent in someone's hoard.

I do believe because of that anything done should be more cosmetic in nature... because we let these go to walls even there will be more then 100mill hp on every outpost and some people do like the occasional breach to occur.

The main issue is thinking of something from a game balancing standpoint. Something that would need fueling would help people feel they are putting them to some use.. but would also be a pain for CMJ to code in likely.. and there are other things for him to look at first... which will only make the fact we have so damn many of these things worse.


 
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LardDude32
 Tuesday, December 13 2011 @ 04:40 PM UTC  
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Hmm... I getcha...
What if... hmm...
When you get down to it, it's kind of hard to think up a use for 'em... Neutral

How about if there's a limit to how many cobblestone can be put up by each player at each outpost, or something?
Or... ...well, I can't think of much use for them, actually Frown


 
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dizzyizzy
 Tuesday, December 13 2011 @ 06:55 PM UTC  
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or as someone else put it, we're helping fight cancer, getting free sp for it.. extra stamina boost.. get to do momento molds.. why do we really need more?



Um, because Cobblestones are a squandered resource only used by people who make multiples of the same Memento? We've got them. We don't use them and if we do, we can't use all of them. Why don't we find another use for them?
It doesn't have to be outpost hp, just something to actually make use of them in some way. At the very least, it might encourage more people to connect with the WCG.



I don't, personally, see a need for even more incentives associated with BOINC. We get 10% stam boost. We get 5 SP a day. We get cobblestones that help defray the cost of mass-producing mementos. How much more could you possibly ask for something that's costing you nothing, and requires no effort?

A big pile of cobblestones doesn't hurt you. It doesn't contribute to your backpack, doesn't affect your stats, doesn't do anything. If you don't need them, ignore them, and keep on curing cancer and reaping the other rewards.


 
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Wongo the Sane
 Thursday, December 15 2011 @ 02:24 PM UTC  
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I think the 'reinforcing the walls' suggestion is a good one. Yes, they do disappear at the touch of a Titan, but that's not the problem in places like Cyber City, Ace High and Pleasentville. The problem in those places is the monsters slowly wearing the walls away over the course of hours while there's no PC's in town to stop them.

Having Cobblestones be twice as efficient as wood would give us (roughly) twice as long before the walls go down. This would be a Good Thing (TM), and hopefully not unbalancing. Especially since (As Sessine rightly points out) every outpost on the island having Gigga-hitpoints will be of no advantage if the Titan Hunters all take a day off...


 
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Awesome Fred
 Thursday, December 15 2011 @ 07:47 PM UTC  
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Even though now that we have Altruism bars that benefit everybody, it seems completely obvious to me for Cobblestones to be usable for Meter Extends and all that.



An excellent suggestion, sir, and one with only one minor drawback.

I would have to live in a tree and eat sticks.



Oh. Whoops.

Totally forgot about that whole income thing. <.<

I think the 'reinforcing the walls' suggestion is a good one. Yes, they do disappear at the touch of a Titan, but that's not the problem in places like Cyber City, Ace High and Pleasentville. The problem in those places is the monsters slowly wearing the walls away over the course of hours while there's no PC's in town to stop them.

Having Cobblestones be twice as efficient as wood would give us (roughly) twice as long before the walls go down. This would be a Good Thing (TM), and hopefully not unbalancing. Especially since (As Sessine rightly points out) every outpost on the island having Gigga-hitpoints will be of no advantage if the Titan Hunters all take a day off...


I agree completely. Twice as effective, maybe 3 or 4 or even 5 times as effective. The number will take some balancing, I would think, but it needs to be a number that makes people choose between spending a limited resource (Cobblestones) or doing a free one (Planks) that is much less Walls Per Stamina.

Titans don't damage walls, they reset them to zero. If everyone immediately pours all their cobblestones into walls, they'll find themselves having made a bad investment when, as Wongo said, the Titan Hunters simply don't respond. (It's funny that the Island inhabitants sort of depend on them to do this task. If only the power gap between powerplayers and casual players weren't so great...) Yet, sometimes you'll have to dump the sturdier cobblestones into the walls, because the Onslaught is tearing it apart. (Every other day in CC404, pretty much.) Cobblestones being stones makes a lot of sense to be used in construction of defensive walls, and preventing Onslaught is a community benefit rather than an individual one, so imbalanced distribution isn't truly a problem.

Fake Edit: I thought more about the massive difference between some people's Cobble Amounts to make sure that Onslaught really doesn't get trivialized. I'm thinking about it, and if there's people with 50 million cobblestones, that's essentially 50 million times you'd have to hammer in order to spend it all. That's a lot of clicks.

So I think what should also happen is that we don't make every Reinforcement action read to be putting up a plank anymore. Instead, it should simply be putting up "lots of planks". Essentially, every point of HP you add is a plank. At 100 skill, that's about 100 planks per action average. Then we say that cobblestones are smaller but faster to use up--so every Reinforcement action using cobblestones should be about 5 times as effective. At 100 skill, you'll add 500 HP per action average, you'll deplete 500 cobblestones per action on average. 50 million stones becomes only 100k actions at the most, which is still shows a person is incredibly rich, but not astronomically high that they're unfazed by spending forever and ever (at first, they will feel like that, but as they keep using their stock...). The player with 50,000 cobblestones (poor) will still get in about 100 actions, so they have to make it count. I've been participating in WCG with a crappy 9-year-old Windows XP for about 1.5 or 2 years (I play on my 2-year-old laptop), and I have 550,000 cobblestones approximately, and I believe I'd be at a good area to ponder between reluctance to spend and ability to take the hit and save the town, on a per-case basis.

If the average player is around 100k or something too low to have any effectiveness at all, maybe we can knock a zero around here or there to get the right balance level. It's all a numbers game, we can tweak a mechanic to work just by tweaking the numbers.

I don't, personally, see a need for even more incentives associated with BOINC. We get 10% stam boost. We get 5 SP a day. We get cobblestones that help defray the cost of mass-producing mementos. How much more could you possibly ask for something that's costing you nothing, and requires no effort?


Cobblestones were an incentive back in the day for signing up for WCG. Because there was no use for Cobblestones, we got the 5 SP per day and the 10% Stamina boost, and those things themselves didn't cost Cobblestones because of the Cobble Imbalance Problem. Mementos were the first thing to finally use the stones, and that's a personal thing that doesn't result in a player-balancing issue: it's purely cosmetic for RP purposes, so it's okay. Onslaught has some problems in it that players want to fill up, players want to use Cobblestones on something other than Mementos (as you said, it only defrays mass-production costs, but there's still an SP cost that turns the stingier people away), and we want more incentives for people to cure dengue fever.

I would easily give up the 10% stamina boost for the Cobble Wall feature. 10% stamina boost is uninteresting, and it's just a blanket "everyone performs better now for participating!" This is a game, and I care less about having an effective character and more about having fun playing the game. (I would also give up the 5 SP per day, but I feel this is an even less-popular stance.) Choosing to use stones as a wall material means you have to choose between depleting your personal reserves to help save a city, and saving the stones because the town doesn't direly need saving, saving the stones because the town is going to fall even if you used Cobblestones due to the sheer rate the monsters are tearing down the wall, or saving the stones because a Titan's about to blow it all to bits anyway. That sounds more enjoyable than, "Thanks to your participating in the Grid, you've been awarded 10% stamina!"

Okay, I really have to finish this post now, else I'll miss my chance for the $5 chinese food lunch special.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Friday, December 16 2011 @ 08:40 PM UTC  
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I personally don't feel like using them to reinforce walls would be appropriate. It will help CC and NP, some, but it'll help Kittania more. The absolute last thing kittania needs is a way to be even more secure. The "lazy kittymorphs" had built their walls over 100 million before a titan finally, mercifully, slipped through and destroyed it. I laughed, that day. I wish it had been breached, but the warning level was, as usual, at zero.

Kittania is a detraction to game immersion. It's never in danger. The wall sizes don't make sense. And the general writing there reflects that. It's a happy place, unless someone's gone and fucked the wrong person, or maybe there's a demon infestation. Rarely, if ever, do I see anything reflecting the fact that people were plucked from their homes, dropped naked on an island, and forced to fight against all manner of hellish beasts to kill an unkillable enemy. Not that that has to be central to everything, but it's the lens that should be written through. I get the feeling while reading roleplay in outposts that for many, the gameplay and the roleplay are massively disconnected. Making onslaught more prevalent would help this. Instead of a way to increase walls, we should put caps on them. We should make breaches more common. We should have faster titans. We should remind everybody that this is a goddamn war zone. Kitt and IC are Jurassic Park, and we should turn off the fences and let the raptors loose. We've forgotten what's lurking outside.


If the cobblestones can be used to reinforce, it should be an emergency stopgap measure: only when the walls are below 10k, only when the threat level is in the top two.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Friday, December 16 2011 @ 10:45 PM UTC  
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I agree with what you're saying about Kittania being an eyesore of pleasantries in a scenario where humans are kidnapped and impressed into a war of questionable necessity with a profiteering ruler that somehow has a canonically good relationship with everyone (I'm aware the Ashtus are not so forgiving). I also violently orgasmed all over the place when I saw Kittania's walls had been taken down, and it took me about an hour to clean my desk up. However, in past discussions, apparently a lot of people like nice things and have more fun when they don't have to care about the tone (then again, the game itself ISN'T a serious tone, even if the events would lend to that). There's too much of a disconnect, though, in my taste. The events of the story are seemingly forgotten about by everybody as they walk along and do their daily grind, meeting with new people and discussing over tea. However, the discussion about that was started in this thread and can probably still continue there if you want to go for it.

Regardless of our story opinions, I don't think that Kittania's a reason to prevent this mechanic. Maybe an additional mechanic should be in place, like a cap (building too high will block sunshine, it violates century-old building codes, it gets in range of the Drive's laser beam, etc) or perhaps it should get more exhausting per action as you have to climb the walls to get to the top and keep building. Whatever it is, those mechanics can help stop Kittania (and to a lesser extent, Pleasantville, which has finally been normalizing in the most recent times). But the point of Cobblestones being usable for more-efficient wall repair but costing limited resources is that--you want to increase walls at an accelerated pace with Cobblestones when there is danger, and you want to save resources and use Planks when the situation is not dire.

If we had that mechanic, and a cap of 25 million wall HP, Kittania would not be crazy-high, and the proposed Cobblestone mechanic would be useful for AceHigh, Cyber City 404, and Squat Hole.







Side note: It's hard to build a wall on swamp. Instead, the wall should be largely made of out angry midgets that scare off the creatures, but as midgets get bored or antsy, the wall HP begins to fall. Reinforcing involves hitting the midgets with planks, or if the mechanic goes in place, cobblestones, to get them back in line. There, that's a silly-toned thing. Mr. Green


 
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LardDude32
 Saturday, December 17 2011 @ 12:34 AM UTC  
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The cap idea's good.
How about if there wasn't so much a cap, but instead the cobblestones became less and less effective the more health the outpost has. So that places, such as Kittania, don't have a billion hit points all the time and it'd be more useful to use planks instead of cobblestones.
The cobblestones could be said to be infused with some magical entity that is not known and is somehow crap when an outpost reaches a certain amount of hit points.
Is that a better idea, or what? Wink


 
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