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Awesome Fred
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 03:03 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Iriana

I don't think it's fair to say that Teddybear is taking it too personally. A change will always affect people, and people are allowed to feel affected. Teddybear, I suppose what I'd ask you to do is recognize the way you feel, but not let it make you feel like CMJ or everyone who likes the new Banter are doing it as a personal attack against you, or because they don't care about you.


That is what I meant by "taking it too personally".

Quote by: Iriana

Fred, I think you're operating from the wrong definitions of introvert and extrovert. There are social introverts and nonsocial extroverts; for example, I'm strongly introverted, but I've learned to not mind just leaping in and making new friends. But that tires me out, whereas being by myself or with only a few people helps me recharge.


Sure, I accept that there are much more specific nuances to the concepts of introvert and extrovert than the way I used the terms. All I was trying to say is that I'm not dismissing Teddybear's claims just because he or she is daunted by the prospect of having to deal with lots of people, which is a concept many social butterflies often do not understand at all.

Quote by: Buddleia

If you don't like it, then ... you can either abstain, becoming a Weirdo Antisocial Loner to all the people who do like it, and missing out on all the socialising and news and organising of parties that it seems everyone else is enjoying so much.


That seems a bit hyperbolic to me. I don't expect people to view GB-Abstainers as Weirdo Antisocial Loners, but as people who just don't really care for it. Global Banter seems primarily to be an OOC Chatroom, not the party-organization tool (clan mail) or news (MotD/Clan Mail/Noticeboard/Story?).

Quote by: Buddleia

yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt


You brits are the worst.


 
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Raidur
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 05:07 AM UTC  
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I'm still formulating an opinion, but I do see one thing that'd be handy in this global banter.. a color that indicated that someone is in either the same outpost as you, or a color that says they are in a different outpost. Yes, I know I can go to the contestants list to see where people are at, but it'd be nice to see.. hey, this person is in the same outpost, I should try RP'ing. Or something of the sort.

-Raidur, et al.


 
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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 06:21 AM UTC  


Quote by: Raidur

I'm still formulating an opinion, but I do see one thing that'd be handy in this global banter.. a color that indicated that someone is in either the same outpost as you, or a color that says they are in a different outpost. Yes, I know I can go to the contestants list to see where people are at, but it'd be nice to see.. hey, this person is in the same outpost, I should try RP'ing. Or something of the sort.

-Raidur, et al.



Or, alternatively, if some folks are going "LOL, confetti-pooping midgets, best party ever" you can see what outpost the best party ever is in, and then crash it!

Outpost indicators of any kind would be really, really awesome.

(forgot I wanted to say something about this idea, since I posted such a big long novel about other stuff. thanks for reminding me, raidur!)


 
TeddybearofDeath
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 12:24 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

...but it isn't my game, it's CMJ's. He listens to all his players, including you -- and me! In the end, though, he has to make an executive decision.



As someone who always seems to be on the opposite side fo issues and never had any positive feedback or response from CMJ, it doesn't feel like he listens. I know he does, but it's so frustrating to always feel like what's important to you is just dismissed out of hand, because you're not part of the crowd the king sides with going into the conversation. I sound upset because I'm frustrated, as usual.


Quote by: Count+Sessine

It's not a democracy, it can't be; it's his personal creation. There are factors that neither of us can see.



Which is why the countless other times things have upset me, I've tried to grin and bear it. You're right, of course you're right. But this isn't the first one, so it's getting tougher to just bite my tongue and go on as usual. It's more of a last straw situation.

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Now it's your decision. You get to make it each time you log in, or don't. Ask yourself -- are the friends you have here, the values you've found here, the kinds of fun you can still have here... are they worth it to you, or not?

Sometimes, for some people, the answer is no. That's all right. Sometimes, the answer turns out to be no for a while, then they come back after a period spent doing other things and find they can have fun here again. When that happens, their friends cheer and do happy dances. And sometimes...

Sometimes, the value they've found here leads them to take a chance, try something new, and find out there are benefits after all, benefits they hadn't imagined.

I'm not going to try to tell you what your choice should be. Whatever you pick, though, don't feel so alone. You are a part of the community.



This website literally has been all I've looked forward to each day since I found it. That's one of the reasons I'm taking this change and the decision to finally leave so hard! There are a few people here who I wished had Enquierer accounts or used them, that are my only friends in the world. And good ones at that! ones I've already been missing since I got a second degree grease burn on my hand and haven't been able to type or story quickly or correctly for the past week. But again, my point, everytime I think of returning to them, a bit sinks in my stomach of sadness. We can't joke and chat and enjoy our privacy and creativity anymore without trying to keep track of distractions, or having everyone on the entire website eavesdropping, chiming in, knowing our jokes... I'm just not that bold in front of people. I like my privacy. Banter made me happy. Now all those feelings are reversed.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred


You're taking this decision so much more personally than it is. Your opinion matters, but it's not the only one. The last two (three?) weeks have been spent with lots of people voicing their icy hatred of the new Global Banter, then after a week (or two?) to warm up, many of them see the new benefits of the system and either accept that it's not so bad, or that they might even prefer it. You're just a little late to the thread (again, not that your feedback doesn't matter), because it seems that the majority of opinions turned around sufficiently to keep it in.



I admit, I kind of TL;DR this thread past the first and last pages. Have that many people really said they hated it, then changed their tune? How suprising and disturbing.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

I thought your points about the "crowded in a party" analogy were really good, since though an extrovert's natural response is "just put yourself out there and make a ton of new friends", an introvert like yourself (as you described) will find that cripplingly unfun. Most of us know the pleasures of anonymity or undetectability when you just don't feel like dealing with certain people. I really get what you're saying, and I would be swayed quite a bit by more similar arguments by other people who feel that way.



Ya see, that's the problem with people who're uncomfortable blabbing in front of hoards they don't know or who certainly don't agree with them. They don't have the balls to run up to your face and disagree!

The day banter changed there was someone so terrified he could hardly post. He saw me raising loud concerns and distracted me to ask me to put his two cents in because he was too overwhemled and frightened to speak 90% of the time. I have another friend with so much anxiety and discomfort, I haven't seen him log in since the change. I can't even talk to him, let alone get him to post here. I'm the voice of the nervous here!

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Although, as said before by CMJ himself, it's pretty much obvious which way this issue is going to swing already.



Which of course makes my breath now and always wasted, but I feel like at least defending and fleshing out my point to those sympathetic enough to listen and reply, anyway. My island time is gone, it's not like I have anywhere else to be!

Quote by: Full+Metal+Lion

I find the concept of trying to get introverts to speak an amusingly sisyphean task. You'd probably have to use a MoTD poll.



Presented without comment because, yes. This lion speaks truth.

Quote by: Buddleia

This new Global Banter, in essence, reminds me of Facebook or Twitter.



Which is why I don't use those websites! Island was always better and more comfortable. I don't like Facebook and Twitter, or I'd probably be there instead of here! All of my do not want!

Quote by: Buddleia

If you don't like it, then ... you can either abstain, becoming a Weirdo Antisocial Loner to all the people who do like it, and missing out on all the socialising and news and organising of parties that it seems everyone else is enjoying so much.



Wooooow. 'You don't want to conform to the crowd and throw yourself into awkward annonymous things that make you uncomfortable! You feel and act different from me and my friends do so you're a FREAK and I'm going to judge and label you for it! Hahahaha!' I don't think I was even this judged in high school. Congratulations for leaving me at a loss. I'm so shocked and caught off guard I can't even form a reply that has any substance. Just wow.

Quote by: Buddleia

If it isn't your thing, then no, of course you aren't being forced at gunpoint to buy the strawberry yoghurt. But if that's the only place you can get yoghurt, and if almost everyone else you wish to hear from and interact with is using yoghurt as their primary means of instant non-private communication (ok yes the mixed metaphor breaks down rather a lot), and if you wish to use something with similar properties to yoghurt .... well, a curry just ain't the same with strawberry yoghurt or sour cream instead of a nice plain yoghurt for your cucumber-and-mint raita.



.......

I was going to say something, but I got so confused halfway through, I can't figure out if I agree or not anymore. Uhm?

Quote by: Buddleia

I'd still be in favour of a Local Banter channel for the people who want to use that and a Global Banter channel for the people who want to use that.



This is part of why I'm so upset. Global banter always existed. The problem being, NOBODY KNEW THAT. There was no mention in any of the guides/help/anywhere/etc. I only found it by either random snooping or Omega, I can't remember which. And I approved of it! So my point here is, instead of throwing cold water on everyone by forcing them to use global instead of local, why couldn't we make an effort to inform more people of global still in the second tab? Move the link closer to the other banter, make note of it in new player guides, something. I feel like we've gone about this wrong!

Quote by: Iriana

Teddybear, I suppose what I'd ask you to do is recognize the way you feel, but not let it make you feel like CMJ or everyone who likes the new Banter are doing it as a personal attack against you, or because they don't care about you. They do!



I don't feel like anyone's attacking me, and that's not what I meant. I'm just so tired of feeling like everything I feel strongly about gets dismissed with little to no consideration. These replies I've gotten since my last post have made me not feel as alienated at least. Sadly, they still hold no barring on the final decision, so... Still frustrating.


...Anyway. Sorry about massively masive long page-stretching post. Just a lot of relavent things I wanted to reply to. Lots of good people with good points, and point I should probably claify of my own words.


"It's hard to get pumped about this, without someone nice n' fuzzy around."
 
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Buddleia
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 01:13 PM UTC  
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Quote by: TeddybearofDeath

Quote by: Buddleia

If you don't like it, then ... you can either abstain, becoming a Weirdo Antisocial Loner to all the people who do like it, and missing out on all the socialising and news and organising of parties that it seems everyone else is enjoying so much.


Wooooow. 'You don't want to conform to the crowd and throw yourself into awkward annonymous things that make you uncomfortable! You feel and act different from me and my friends do so you're a FREAK and I'm going to judge and label you for it! Hahahaha!' I don't think I was even this judged in high school. Congratulations for leaving me at a loss. I'm so shocked and caught off guard I can't even form a reply that has any substance. Just wow.


I'm sorry if my post made you feel judged and shocked. But it is not intended as labelling or attacking you. It is hyperbole for how I was feeling from my not enjoying Global Banter. Not aimed at you. Just as you feel unhappy and uncomfortable about New Global Banter, so do I and this was my attempt at explaining how I feel.


However.

If I never open Global Banter, I would never know about CMJ taking straw polls about what to work on next, or his other game-changing discussions and announcements.
If I never open Global Banter, I would not have known to make a bug report about an exploit which is effectively stealing money from the game because people had not realised that their actions were not supposed to be possible.
If I never open Global Banter, I would not know when people are talking about interesting scenes and events in progress or about to start, or asking or telling me things relevant to my current roleplay, or whatever else.
If I never open Global Banter, I miss out on a lot of socialising.

And still, I do not like the new Global Banter. It is too fast, too busy, too full of people I don't know all happily talking about things I'm not interested in or involved with. I don't like awkward anonymous-but-overly-public things that make me uncomfortable, either! But it feels to me as if I have to chose between either missing out on all the good things, or on having to wade through a huge amount of things which I am not interested in.

No, I'm not saying that they are wrong to be using it that way (or anyone else is wrong to be using whatever else to be chatting and hugging and talking about their real-life day and scene-coordinating and everything else). If it makes them happy, that's great, whatever my opinions and preferences.

I'm definitely not saying that I think that anyone is a Weirdo Antisocial Loner for not wanting to use Global Banter or for not conforming to my opinions and preferences.

I'm saying that I do not like the New Global Banter but that if I abstain from reading it then I am missing out and feeling socially excluded.



Quote by: Buddleia


If it isn't your thing, then no, of course you aren't being forced at gunpoint to buy the strawberry yoghurt. But if that's the only place you can get yoghurt, and if almost everyone else you wish to hear from and interact with is using yoghurt as their primary means of instant non-private communication (ok yes the mixed metaphor breaks down rather a lot), and if you wish to use something with similar properties to yoghurt .... well, a curry just ain't the same with strawberry yoghurt or sour cream instead of a nice plain yoghurt for your cucumber-and-mint raita.

.......

I was going to say something, but I got so confused halfway through, I can't figure out if I agree or not anymore. Uhm?

I'm mixing metaphors from earlier in the thread:

Quote by: Agelmar
Global is doing a lot of what I'd suspected it would and a couple things more. Now that posttimes are leveled out and the Doubters have actually had a sit-down and thought about how they could use Global, we're really reaping the benefits. From what I've observed.
Quote by: Adder Moray
And I know people who it's driving off. Options don't hurt anyone, there's no reason to hold players who don't like it at gun point and force them to indulge in the system you like if allowing for options isn't difficult.
Quote by: CavemanJoe
Okay, really?

Really?
Quote by: Adder Moray
It's my go to analogy for "Options? Dear god no!" replies.
Quote by: Omega

Hey, hey. Just clarifying one point by an example:

You used to sell two kinds of yogurt. Strawberry and Plain. You've decided one day to stop selling Strawberry. When people come to you and ask for Strawberry yogurt and you tell them you don't sell it anymore, you are not forcing them to buy Plain yogurt. You are merely preventing them from buying Strawberry yogurt from your store.

I hope the point is made clear. Thank you!


In summary: no, we are not being forced to participate in New Global Banter. But for the people who did like to use Local Banter, and now find that New Global Banter is not a good substitute, it is not a nice change. If you used to have options A, B or C, and you only find Option A suitable for your purpose, then having to chose from Options B or C is disappointing.



This is part of why I'm so upset. Global banter always existed. The problem being, NOBODY KNEW THAT. There was no mention in any of the guides/help/anywhere/etc. I only found it by either random snooping or Omega, I can't remember which. And I approved of it! So my point here is, instead of throwing cold water on everyone by forcing them to use global instead of local, why couldn't we make an effort to inform more people of global still in the second tab? Move the link closer to the other banter, make note of it in new player guides, something. I feel like we've gone about this wrong!

This is one of the things which makes me unhappy, too. A lot of things on Improbable Island are not well documented or explained. I was playing for more than a year before the FAQ was updated to the current helpful version; the old one basically insulted you for not knowing everything that you'd gone in there to find out, and had lots of irrelevant, wrong and out-of-date information.

(Yes, I know, joy of discovery and all that, don't want to make it too easy, got to keep to the Wiki of Lies ethos, etc etc. But for goodness sake, surely it was not right to give a just-started-playing-the-game rookie the impression that clans exist solely to sneer at people who have not heard of their "exploits"? I read it in the FAQ when I'd just started playing, I thought it was true!)


Improbable Reference Links - goo.gl/MRBnb -------------- Land Registry (map of Places) ---- goo.gl/bpkRR
 
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jenkins
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 03:18 PM UTC  
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Don't feel bad, alot of people don't use Global. And I mean ALOT.

On average, there's about 40-90 people on at any given time, right?* But h0w many people are using Banter at any given time? Like, 3-6 people. Once you start hitting 7 or 8 people, you've got posts disapearing in less than 2 minutes, so people stop using it, and it'll go back down. But that's 3-6, out of the 40-90 people all on the island. That's about 5-10% of the island that's willing to go onto Global.
Now, I have no idea how many people used Banter regularly before the change, but I'm pretty damn sure it was more than 10%. There's probably more people using Banter, now the Places Banter has been installed, but that's out of sheer desire not to use Global. I've heard many people complain about Global in Global, but few of those who do have made posts in this thread, mostly because...

Ya see, that's the problem with people who're uncomfortable blabbing in front of hoards they don't know or who certainly don't agree with them. They don't have the balls to run up to your face and disagree!


Leaving them to decide to leave, or give up Banter completely. Which I just don't think is right. It's CMJ's decision, but damn if I don't want to influence him to change his mind.





*Well, maybe like 25 if the island's really empty, but on average and all that


 
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Sonny
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 06:49 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Escemfer


And if I don't want to be snarked at or bullied, I have to be polite to others. If you're not giving whoever-it-is any reason to engage negatively with you, then chances are, they won't. And if you feel like they're personally harassing you, you can always ask a neutral moderator for help. The mere chance of being in the same "room" with someone you don't like should never be a reason to give up and leave entirely. There's always a way to get along with people you don't personally like.


Sorry for derailing, but I just can't let this left uncommented.
Yes, being polite and keeping a low profile can reduce the chances of it happening. But while the Island is probably pretty safe from it, and thanks goodness for that, in the real world out there no amount of being nice and polite, or dressing decent, will save one from being bullied or harrassed when the bullies decide to make one their target. And the moderating authorities aren't around all the time, even if acknowledging that there is a problem (and they don't decide it's only your own problem).

But enough of that. Luckily the Island is different =)

Quote by: Awesome+Fred


You're taking this decision so much more personally than it is. Your opinion matters, but it's not the only one. The last two (three?) weeks have been spent with lots of people voicing their icy hatred of the new Global Banter, then after a week (or two?) to warm up, many of them see the new benefits of the system and either accept that it's not so bad, or that they might even prefer it. You're just a little late to the thread (again, not that your feedback doesn't matter), because it seems that the majority of opinions turned around sufficiently to keep it in.



While I won't deny that some people changed their minds, I would like to point out that it's equally easy to assume many also simply stopped complaining for whatever reasons, or are even too polite or shy to voice their dissent in the first palce.
Without a vote and hard numbers it's not right to declare that the majority of the oppinions turned around. While it could seem to some that the majority did so in the forum, one has to ask how many of all the active player are posting here, and how many of those then really changed their mind?
How many are part of the very vocal and favoured handful, that automatically gets more attention because they repeat their opinions often enough? Or did someone go and count all personal stances here, in banter, distracions and other programms since the experiment started? Not as far as I know. So in my oppinion it stays a totally unsupported assumption.

Therefor the only fair way would be a vote in-game, in a module that can't be skipped accidentally, as banter-votes never striked me as very representative.
Otherwise pretending the opinion of the community is important to the final decision sounds like a lie to me.

I still wish this decision wasn't so final. Good points were made on both sides, but there are still valid complaints. I myself am with the ones prefering another solution, mostly because I still don't like the new, crowded party-banter and agree with all that was said by others above against it.

Are local banters really gone forever, CMJ?


 
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Matthew
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 07:09 PM UTC  
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Still seems like the best option.

There's a lot to like about global banter, but there's also a lot to miss about Local banter. Every time I see a thing I used to use Local banter for and I go to do it, I then remember that it's not there anymore and I'm all like "oh...Frown"

edit: And now that I think about it, I kind of have no idea why we decided to do this whole song and dance with the global banter anyway. What happened?

edit edit: do we really need the noticeboard?


 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 07:31 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew

do we really need the noticeboard?

Oh yes! How else will the monsters of the Island be able to issue threats of vengeance against all you murdering Contestants?


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 07:49 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: Matthew

do we really need the noticeboard?

Oh yes! How else will the monsters of the Island be able to issue threats of vengeance against all you murdering Contestants?


The Classy.

Quote by: Matthew

And now that I think about it, I kind of have no idea why we decided to do this whole song and dance with the global banter anyway. What happened?


Quote by: CavemanJoe

I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?



Quote by: Awesome+Fred


Quote by: Buddleia

yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt


You brits are the worst.


Pish posh! Any true English(wo)man knows it's spelled "Youghurt!"


 
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Sonny
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 07:53 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew

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Yes, something like this seems better. With toggling between the arrangement of the chats like now.
I'm not so sure about the noticeboard either. 25 SP seems a lot for a message. That's half a new memento and I'm still hoping the pricing will change there. Confused


 
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Hairy Mary
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 08:34 PM UTC  
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Have to admit. I'm turning Banter off now. I've given it a go, and it's not doing it for me. This is no strong argument for the return to the old system, I didn't use it that much before. Now it's just conversation that doesn't interest me.

I am somewhat asocial (as opposed to antisocial), and perhaps there's a a little of the loner in me. Also it's long been my firm belief that we're all a little bit insane and I suppose that counts as weirdo.

Awesome: I think that "icy hatred" is pitching it a bit strong. As I recall the sentiments were more, dislike, but I'll give it a go. Also, what's wrong with us Brits enjoying a nice yoghurt/youghurt with cucumber and mint with your curry? I can assure you that it doesn't work anywhere near as well with strawberry. Or was it pushing metaphors too far that you were referring to?


 
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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 09:33 PM UTC  


Quote by: Sonny

Quote by: Escemfer


blah blah, be nice to others


Sorry for derailing, but I just can't let this left uncommented.
Yes, being polite and keeping a low profile can reduce the chances of it happening. But while the Island is probably pretty safe from it, and thanks goodness for that, in the real world out there no amount of being nice and polite, or dressing decent, will save one from being bullied or harrassed when the bullies decide to make one their target. And the moderating authorities aren't around all the time, even if acknowledging that there is a problem (and they don't decide it's only your own problem).



Oh, er, I'm really not sure if I've said something to offend you here or not, Sonny. Confused By no means am I suggesting that "playing nice" will solve all your problems and prevent people from being dickwads, in real life or on the Island. I've had my fair share of very unpleasant interactions with others, and people who are dickwads at heart will always be dickwads. I was trying to suggest, though, that for the most part, being pleasant to others eliminates a lot of reasons for non-dickwads to turn into dickwads. Such as minor offenses, misinterpretations, or accidentally stirring up someone you've got a negative history with.

An example being, if I've had arguments with Generic Contestant before, then making comments like "Oh, it's you" or "Escemfer suddenly has to go, it's gotten way too crowded in here" are far more likely to rile up Generic Contestant and lead us both into another argument than if I just say hi, or ignore their presence entirely. Even if Generic Contestant is making those comments at my arrival, then politely ignoring them prevents it from becoming an argument. It's not a fight, or an argument, if only one person is participating.

Yes, people are definitely bullies sometimes, in real life and on the internet. Being nice doesn't change that. But being nice has saved me, personally, a lot of drama.

/off-topic

EDIT: maybe I ought to stop trying to clarify, because now it sounds like I'm suggesting that People Who Don't Like Other People are always making rude, fighty comments, and that isn't what I was trying to suggest at all. Oops! Just pretend I'm really smooth, okay?


 
Iriana
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 09:49 PM UTC  
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Can we have a "Split" link straight from the single-column view, instead of having to click "Stack" then "Split" to go back from single to double?

I don't do too well with lots of rapidly flashing colors, especially when I'm trying to concentrate, so it's hard to do a solo scene or write Place descriptions or whatever when Banter is merrily flashing along on the right-hand side. I could disable auto-update, but then it still refreshes every time I write a line in Story or refresh the page. If I hide it when I'm doing something, but then want to go back to talking, there's an extra click because there's no Split above the single Story column. And. That bothers me. Because I am spoiled. And dislike extra clicks.

(/pathetic)

edit:
Slightly more reasonable request: Is there a way for the Banter heading to say which it is? Global could just be "Banter", but in Places it would be lovely to have "Local Banter" or "Place Banter" so that you know who's seeing your Banter.


 
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Trowa
 Sunday, September 16 2012 @ 09:55 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Iriana

Can we have a "Split" link straight from the single-column view, instead of having to click "Stack" then "Split" to go back from single to double?


I was just thinking this, too!

Please? Smile


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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Awesome Fred
 Monday, September 17 2012 @ 02:20 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Have to admit. I'm turning Banter off now. I've given it a go, and it's not doing it for me. This is no strong argument for the return to the old system, I didn't use it that much before. Now it's just conversation that doesn't interest me.

I am somewhat asocial (as opposed to antisocial), and perhaps there's a a little of the loner in me. Also it's long been my firm belief that we're all a little bit insane and I suppose that counts as weirdo.

Awesome: I think that "icy hatred" is pitching it a bit strong. As I recall the sentiments were more, dislike, but I'll give it a go. Also, what's wrong with us Brits enjoying a nice yoghurt/youghurt with cucumber and mint with your curry? I can assure you that it doesn't work anywhere near as well with strawberry. Or was it pushing metaphors too far that you were referring to?



I used the word "icy" simply to balance out the phrase "warm up" later in the sentence. It initially said "fiery hatred" and "cool down" in those same spots before I reworded it. Either way, I'd say not to focus too much on that sensationalist diction of mine. Instead, you should focus on how absurdly ridiculous the British way of spelling things is. It's not about yogurt. I'm absolutely fine with yogurt. I do not mind yogurt at all.


 
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Harris
 Monday, September 17 2012 @ 03:31 AM UTC  
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First off, EVERYONE, please, STOP apologizing for having your opinions.

If you had no opinions, you'd be a pretty damned dull and lifeless person.

WHICH NO-ONE HERE IS. SO STOPPIT.

This leads me into a pure grammatical gripe I must level at this entire @#$%&ing conversation: PLEASE also DO NOT clarify that something you have said is YOUR OPINION. Of COURSE it's yours! YOU are the one saying it! If you're not telling us that you are relating SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION, then PLEASE do not say this thing anymore either. It just adds irrelevant detail to the larger points that you are trying to make, and makes your points harder to understand as a result.

Believe it or not, I WANT to understand EVERY point here, so PLEASE. STOPPIT.


Now back to your regularly scheduled argument, already in progress.


"Ain't nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile." -The Grateful Dead
 
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Waverly
 Monday, September 17 2012 @ 04:52 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Full+Metal+Lion

I find the concept of trying to get introverts to speak an amusingly sisyphean task. You'd probably have to use a MoTD poll.



This is a good idea.
I'm going to make a rough estimate and guess that 35-40 people have posted to this thread, but what is that in relation to the rest of the Island? Less than 50 out of... I don't know. I almost want to say a thousand regularly to semi- active players, but that might be too generous. Hundreds, at least.
We should try an actual majority vote.

The thought does occur to me, though, that if people can use alts to vote that will skew the results by possibly a large margin. That would have to be fixed first.


.
 
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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Monday, September 17 2012 @ 05:02 AM UTC  


Quote by: Harris

First off, EVERYONE, please, STOP apologizing for having your opinions.

If you had no opinions, you'd be a pretty damned dull and lifeless person.

WHICH NO-ONE HERE IS. SO STOPPIT.

This leads me into a pure grammatical gripe I must level at this entire @#$%&ing conversation: PLEASE also DO NOT clarify that something you have said is YOUR OPINION. Of COURSE it's yours! YOU are the one saying it! If you're not telling us that you are relating SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION, then PLEASE do not say this thing anymore either. It just adds irrelevant detail to the larger points that you are trying to make, and makes your points harder to understand as a result.

Believe it or not, I WANT to understand EVERY point here, so PLEASE. STOPPIT.


Now back to your regularly scheduled argument, already in progress.


Confused

Edit because I found something to say: I'm sorry you're offended by people trying to be polite. While I can't speak for everyone, the reason I noted that my opinion was an opinion is because, oftentimes, there are people who misinterpret what I (or someone else) intend to be an explanation of my (or their) position as an accusation or personal criticism of their own position. In this case, "this is my opinion" is simply people trying to reassure each other that their opinion is not intended as an instrument with which to hammer the opposition into submission.

I could be missing a humorous intent here, but this seemed like a rather violent and rude response to people trying to be polite to each other in a thread that's gotten pretty heated.


 
Harris
 Monday, September 17 2012 @ 05:43 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Escemfer

Quote by: Harris

First off, EVERYONE, please, STOP apologizing for having your opinions.

If you had no opinions, you'd be a pretty damned dull and lifeless person.

WHICH NO-ONE HERE IS. SO STOPPIT.

This leads me into a pure grammatical gripe I must level at this entire @#$%&ing conversation: PLEASE also DO NOT clarify that something you have said is YOUR OPINION. Of COURSE it's yours! YOU are the one saying it! If you're not telling us that you are relating SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION, then PLEASE do not say this thing anymore either. It just adds irrelevant detail to the larger points that you are trying to make, and makes your points harder to understand as a result.

Believe it or not, I WANT to understand EVERY point here, so PLEASE. STOPPIT.


Now back to your regularly scheduled argument, already in progress.


Confused

Edit because I found something to say: I'm sorry you're offended by people trying to be polite. While I can't speak for everyone, the reason I noted that my opinion was an opinion is because, oftentimes, there are people who misinterpret what I (or someone else) intend to be an explanation of my (or their) position as an accusation or personal criticism of their own position. In this case, "this is my opinion" is simply people trying to reassure each other that their opinion is not intended as an instrument with which to hammer the opposition into submission.

I could be missing a humorous intent here, but this seemed like a rather violent and rude response to people trying to be polite to each other in a thread that's gotten pretty heated.



I think I see why you are calling me rude- it seems you've assumed that I'm against reassuring people. I'm not.

"If you had no opinions, you'd be a pretty damned dull and lifeless person.

WHICH NO-ONE HERE IS."

"Believe it or not, I WANT to understand EVERY point here, so PLEASE. STOPPIT."

How is insisting that no-one is dull, rude? How is telling people that I want to understand them rude? How is wanting people to be clearer, rude?

Did you read everything I said?

You're right about one thing- it WAS violent. Capitalizing entire words is a way to show great emotion, just like saying someone is rude is. I was trying to convey violent emotion, because I DO find slogging through extraneous points to be counterproductive to successfully understanding the ones that are on-topic.

As for why you offered the explanation of your statements as being only your opinion, I do see your point there, but I do still stick by my insistence that it really only muddies the waters. Not as in offends, no- I really do mean muddies only in the sense that it makes each person who does that harder to understand, because so much that has nothing to do with the topic at hand is being jammed in alongside of it.

Why else doesn't it work? Assuming that the audience will do something negative BEFORE they do it, and act on that assumption, is only reliably good for showing the audience that you are making negative assumptions about them before they have had a chance to react.


"Ain't nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile." -The Grateful Dead
 
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