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Collin-Vee
 Sunday, March 03 2013 @ 01:45 PM UTC (Read 2272 times)  
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Okay, since discussion in Banter leads only to suggestions of bringing it here, it goes here.

About a month ago, it occurred to me.

There's no direct indicator of different, smaller guideline-like rules on the island within the rules section itself.

Things like incest, ageplay, bestiality, violence in outposts, sex in public areas and unlocked Places, the separation of IC dickishness and OOC dickishness, and so on aren't explicitly mentioned to people within the non-social areas of the game. One can only find out about these rules through asking or being told.

While this system works on a per-person basis, it's purely reactionary, and dependent on too many circumstantial events. In addition, it doesn't prevent anything from happening the first time. In fact, the current system actually EXPECTS you either to make a mistake and apologize, or to be of the curious and question-asking type.

This should be changed. Not because I'm alarmist, or anything like that, but because rules are there as preventative measures. In nearly every case, reactionary policies create much more hasty decisions. So, before it's a problem, and even still when the current system works, this should be at least discussed.

A few options? Why, thank you for asking.


A concise list of the current guidelines.
My rationale for this? It'd cover the less-obvious restrictions and rules in place as a subheading, without disturbing the current three-rule structure in place. Not only would it dispel any fog surrounding different guidelines, but it would also allow the newer users to actually know what's right and wrong from the start.


A page specifically devoted to these subrules.
With this, my vision is that there would be a new link in the rules section, saying 'well, what can't I do, then?', with a more in depth explanation of what is and isn't accepted by the community, and by the laws that the server is hosted in. This would serve the purpose well, though admittedly it'd be a bit long to read, on an already-long rules page.


Relevant rules appearing within context.
Like the link you need to press to join chat for the first time, we could quite possibly have that link appear when you're in specific areas for the first time. When in a Place, it'd provide the 'no sex in unlocked areas' rule, along with some pointers for etiquette, so that rules were evenly distributed.


That's all I really have to say, thoughts?


 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, March 03 2013 @ 04:09 PM UTC  
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Short answer: no.

Longer answer: As mods, we make allowance for the fact that new players don't know the details of the Island yet. When there's a first infraction, we don't descend in righteous wrath -- we explain. (This is why patience is one of the pre-requisites for being a mod.)

We don't have detailed written rules because human behaviour is infinitely variable. To cover every damn thing a player might do wrong, we'd need an entire legal code. This would encourage players who love technical rules lawyering, about which I will only say... a) who's got the time for that nonsense? and b) who in their right mind wants that sort of attitude becoming endemic on the Island?

The one rule that players really need to remember is... wait for it... Rule One.

How to be a not-dick? Well, if you're the kind of player the Island wants, you already know how. Someone taught you how to be considerate and friendly to other people, and how not to do things that will make them uncomfortable. Sometimes you may need to have it pointed out to you that something is going to spoil other players' fun, but if you're a responsible adult, you'll then recognize that you put a foot wrong, and you'll just not do that again.


 
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Collin-Vee
 Sunday, March 03 2013 @ 05:49 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Someone taught you how to be considerate and friendly to other people, and how not to do things that will make them uncomfortable.



While I agree with the rest of your post, you've seemed to overlook one of my main points.

There is no indication that certain aspects are considered 'bad', which could be explained as easy as a one-liner, admittedly. Things like incest and ageplay are legal in some places, but not others. And I feel that having to wait for a slap on the wrist to know it's bad and uncomfortable to others is.. Well, a little distressing.


 
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Marly
 Sunday, March 03 2013 @ 08:43 PM UTC  
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Well, My Personal Guidelines have always been these, and they're what I use to guide my own playing:



1) Remember Kindergarten.

2) Remember the Flying Circus.

3) Keep it classy, broad.



Since this whole thing is about clarification, I will provide.


1) Kindergarten is when we learn and perfect the social rules such as no shoving, share things nicely, ask kindly, and don't call names. If you just take the time to watch what's going on around you, listen to the feedback and reactions of others, and do all this without trying to shove someone because you don't agree or like them (or because you feel your need to express yourself is more important than doing so in constructive ways that don't hurt people), you should be fine. It might take a few false starts, but you should find yourself having fun without a problem in no time.

tl/dr: Consider others.


2) If you can't imagine it showing up as an exhibit in the Circus, don't do it. It's all about presentation and context. That's why we can't have specific rules or word bans: it gets really hard to pinpoint. That being said, there are lines. Don't cross them. If you can't figure out what the lines are, see rule number one.

3) Dignity. Always dignity. Ask yourself if it's your button, or something that's really not cool. Be kind and cool when you're correcting someone, and be respectful. We don't all agree, but we can be honest and fair about it.


These are just my own personal guidelines, and as such they are meant to be flexible and bend with needs and evolve as my playing grows and the island changes. Everyone plays differently. Everyone needs to be interacted with as their ownself. These are what I keep in my mind when I play, and they might not suit everyone, but it's proven flexible for me.


 
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Iriana
 Monday, March 04 2013 @ 08:50 AM UTC  
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I don't agree that the current system expects you to make a mistake and apologize. Yes, it expects you to make a mistake, because no system can predict all possible mistakes and prevent them. Like Sessine said, the closest solution would be some kind of legal code, and--gross, is all I'm going to say.

But no one is asking for an apology--except for people who jump on new people for doing something they don't like, or that they don't think fits inside "The Rules". As long as everybody is friendly and patient when they ask other people (new or old) to not do something that they think violates Rule One, people will generally take it in stride and self-correct for next time without hard feelings. If those people can't manage to do that, then they're not being cool, and the Island isn't looking for that kind of behavior.

There's not much middle ground between these two options. It's either full-on lawyering or just being willing to deal with incidents as they come.

Here's the strategy if someone is doing something you don't like:
1. Is it actually against the real Rules or do I just not like it?
2. Speak calmly, clearly, and courteously. "Hey, man, we try to keep violence away from the outpost--it just makes everything more comfortable for everyone and keeps the atmosphere pleasant. But it's totally cool to move it outside on the world map, if you want. No worries." is a lot more effective than yelling or being aggressive or being passive-aggressive or sarcastic or whatever.
3. If that's impossible, call a mod.
4. Sit back, take it easy, and follow Rule Two (which, as a reminder, is Don't Take It Seriously).

It's that simple. There really shouldn't be a problem. tl;dr version: No one needs to wait for a slap on the wrist because we shouldn't be slapping anyone anywhere.

Here's another question: I don't know what ageplay is, but is there a rule/guideline against incest or bestiality? I'd actually imagine there isn't, since I assume roleplayed bestiality (and I guess incest) between consenting adults is legal. Which kind of makes this all irrelevant because all the other things are addressed nicely under the four existing Rules.


 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, March 04 2013 @ 08:57 PM UTC  
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Ageplay is when an adult player roleplays an underage character having a sex life. That is something we have to forbid entirely, for legal reasons. The Island is hosted in the UK, where the laws about depiction of underage sex are very stringent. We delete such scenes, warn the player in no uncertain terms, and any repetition is grounds for a ban. If CMJ sees it first, it might even be a ban without a warning, because our Rules page does state this point very clearly.

Roleplaying a character under 18 is not, per se, against the rules. But, he or she cannot be allowed to have any awareness that sex even exists... and by the time you're talking late teens, how believable is that? So -- it's generally not such a great idea. There isn't a hard no-exceptions rule about character age because, y'know, we wouldn't want to stop people from having fun with light-hearted silliness like the Wizard of Oz.

Also note: Sexual kinks are best handled as individual cases. As a rule, if it's going to make some other players uncomfortable or be a trigger for someone's PTSD, you shouldn't be talking about it, because that's Rule One. And -- if CMJ doesn't want it on his site, we'll tell you, and you'll have to stop.


 
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kythia
 Monday, March 04 2013 @ 09:30 PM UTC  
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I've tried typing this a few times and can't see a way to not make it sound argumentative. So Im just gonna drop a caveat - this is just meant as a request for clarification.

From your post, Count Sessine, it seems like rping a sexually aware character under 18 is forbidden. Have I understood that right? Its not that I depserately want to its just you mention UK law and the age of consent over here is 16 so I wasn't sure I'd understood you correctly.

As I say, dont wanna sound like I'm mouthing off or "well, actually"-ing. Won't even affect me, tbh. Just wanted to check I'd understood.


 
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kythia
 Monday, March 04 2013 @ 09:46 PM UTC  
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And, after looking in to it a bit further, I see that depictions of 17 and 18 year olds is illegal. Whaddya know. I can't seem to delete so, you know, ignore me. I'll just be looking embarassed over here...


 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, March 05 2013 @ 12:43 AM UTC  
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Don't be embarrassed. Laws aren't always logical. Other people may well be wondering the exact same thing, which means you've done them a good service by asking -- and then answering.


 
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