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 There are other ways we can do PvP...
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, December 08 2008 @ 03:43 PM UTC (Read 2587 times)  
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I think PvP would be a lot more interesting if we could use our buffs and special abilities (Implants and Race abilities, anyway - using consumable equipment would probably be unfeasible). However, anything but a live system would result in some rather odd time-shifts going on.

New PvP system ideas:

1.
Timeshift PvP. A player can challenge any player, any time, to a PvP fight. Upon the challenge being issued, the attacking player would fight against a dummy monster with the Attack, Defence, and HP stats of the defending player. The attacking player can use their racial talents and implants as normal. If the attack is successful, the number of rounds taken to defeat the defending player is recorded and a challenge is issued to the defending player, with options to fight back or concede defeat. If the attack is unsuccessful, the defending player wins automatically and gets their reward. If the defending player chooses the "Concede" option, the defending player has their penalties applied and the winner gets their reward as normal.

If the defending player chooses the "Fight back" option, then goes on to win the battle, the number of rounds taken to defeat the attacking player is compared with the earlier recorded rounds it took for the attacking player to defeat the defending player. Lowest number wins.

2.
Avatar/Symbolic PvP (this would probably work better as a complement to the existing system, rather than a replacement). Attacking player goes to a central location, pays for healing, and fights a dummy with infinite HP, and the Attack and Defence stats of the defending player at the time the challenge was issued.

In the event that the battle goes on for longer than a predetermined number of rounds (say, one hundred) with the attacking player still at full health, the fight is stopped (mostly for server performance issues - some players with regen/absorption clan buffs will prove impossible to kill, thus putting us effectively into an infinite loop) and the attacking player gets a strike against them for challenging a player who had no chance whatsoever of winning the fight.

Once the attacking player succumbs to the infinite-HP dummy, the attacking player is healed and given a record of how much damage they dealt to the dummy, and the defending player is sent a Distraction saying that they've been challenged, and by whom.

The Distraction makes no mention of the attacking player's performance, and the defending player is under no obligation to accept the challenge. If the challenge is accepted, the defending player goes to fight the dummy, which has attack and defence stats equal to the attacking player at the time the challenge was issued.

The challenge must be accepted and the fight completed within two game days of it being issued!

After the defending player has their turn at the dummy, they're given a record of their total damage dealt.

Both players then put whatever amount of Requisition and/or Cigarettes they wish into a pot. One player will likely put more into the pot than the other, and the discrepancy will be returned to the player (IE attacker puts in 1,000,000 Req and ten cigs, defender puts in 20,000 Req and one cig, attacker is refunded 980,000 Req and nine cigs) and the bet will be placed for the lower amount. Once a stake is received from both players and the discrepancy refunded, the damage numbers are revealed to each player and a winner is chosen, who takes the pot.

Thoughts?


 
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Tor NaGoth
 Monday, December 08 2008 @ 05:20 PM UTC  
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I really like the idea of Duelling, whether done as a replacement for the current system, or in addition. It would be especially cool if there was a location for it. (A dueling field in the Common Grounds?).

as an alternative to an infinite HP proxy, what if Duels were limited to 1, 5, or 10 rounds?

choice of weapons? unarmed(racial and clan buffs only), normal weapons(weapon rank only, no-buffs), and unlimited.

each player selects their actions for the selected # of rounds when the challenge is issued/accepted, then the combat is resolved using those actions and the resulting combat/summary is posted in the Duelling grounds


 
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Hermein
 Monday, December 08 2008 @ 05:45 PM UTC  
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Regarding the time-shift, perhaps the existing system could be retained for fights when one player is offline, and the new system for when both are logged in. The challenge and acceptance could have a much shorter time-limit then, and the fight could be resolved almost immediately. Something like this?

- Hermein sees that hajen is logged in and within whatever parameters are appropriate (level, DKs, etc.)
- Hermein goes to the dueling hall and issues a challenge to hajen.
- hajen receives a Distraction telling her that she's been challenged, providing Hermein's basic stats, and giving her 5 minutes to respond.
- If she accepts, she goes to the dueling hall and clicks the appropriate link, and the battle takes place immediately, with whatever weapons/buffs/HP each of us has. If she refuses, Hermein gets a Distraction back saying that she inexplicably doesn't want to pound his head in today.
- The winner and loser both receive Distractions with the results.

Five minutes would be enough to get healed, re-roll the dice, dump req in the bank, etc. Though I don't see that winning or losing req is a big deal; I think most people fight for glory and XP. The interaction wouldn't take very long for the challenged player, so it wouldn't be a huge distraction. If the duels happen in the Common Ground they wouldn't even have to leave the city they're in, though I suppose that would be inconvenient if you're on the World Map. Perhaps they could answer through the Distraction window.

This would also facilitate another thing I was considering - PvP tournaments. With such a system, players could organize their own tournament ladder, or the server could be set up to allow entries and have the tournament at a set time. With a server-run tournament, you could have entry fees that would go towards prizes, as well as the general glory.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, December 08 2008 @ 06:20 PM UTC  
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There's actually already a module that operates on a Live PvP basis - but I just haven't been able to get the bugger to work. Seems a bit buggy.


 
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Deadmeat
 Monday, December 08 2008 @ 06:32 PM UTC  
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CMJ, I have to say I like the second plan. I just have one question:

the attacking player gets a strike against them for challenging a player who had no chance whatsoever of winning the fight.


So, what happens when a player exceeds X number of Strikes?


 
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Deadmeat
 Monday, December 08 2008 @ 06:59 PM UTC  
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grumble ...edit timer ... /grumble

A few more thoughts on PvP improvements:

I like the idea of PvP "Classes" When someone issues a challenge, it can be "Bare Knuckles," no weapons, no armor, no buffs; "Dojo Style" with weapons and armor, but no other buffs; and "Unlimited Cage Match" where everything counts. Maybe even institute a set of "Failboat Rules" where the characters fight each other with their Failboat stats.

One other thing I'm in favor of is the "Dueling Ground." Make a new city somewhere on the island. The only stores should be Shiela's, the Bank, and a Healing tent. No other buildings can be built there, (i.e. no Shacks, Cottages, or Mansions.) Anyone can challenge anyone else to PvP there, but only after they've spent the night in the fields there. Once a player leaves the Grounds, this benefit is lost. combat could be resolved rather like Dojo combat there, If a player loses a PvP, they don't go to the Failboat, but they can't initiate any more there that day.

Just a few thoughts.


 
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Bodoni
 Tuesday, December 09 2008 @ 02:31 AM UTC  
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I like Deadmeat's idea. Specifically, I like the notion that someone who wants to PvP MUST be open for someone else to pounce upon, before the would-be PvPer gets to attack.

I would also like for players to be unable to challenge anyone who has fewer levels and drive kills. Sure, this would mean that the top PvPers would not be able to challenge someone, they could only be challenged, but on the other hand, this would allow lower-level characters to be able to quit to the fields in more safety, without completely turning off their PvP option. I think that this would be a much fairer system.

I have had my PvP option turned off for quite a while, as I got tired of a certain few people hunting me down every time I logged out. I'm sure I don't have to name names.


 
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Epaphus
 Thursday, December 11 2008 @ 05:33 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Bodoni

I got tired of a certain few people hunting me down every time I logged out. I'm sure I don't have to name names.



I'm reasonably sure I'm not on that list.

I like CMJ's Option 2, but I have a question: Will there be a limit to the number of challenges that can be issued/outstanding against a particular player at any given time?


 
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Fodder Kid
 Thursday, December 11 2008 @ 01:57 PM UTC  
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I like this idea CMJ,

The only thing I would change is the 2 game days situation. Many people only play a certain time of day. I would like to see it be set to one real life 24 hour period.

Fodder Kid


 
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Count Sessine
 Thursday, December 11 2008 @ 04:09 PM UTC  
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One twenty-four hour period, FK? Why would you want to shorten it from two days? ...To exclude those players who can't play every day?

Option 2 sounds very interesting, especially if it's in addition to the existing system. It's more of a Dojo-challenge situation. Nobody ends up on the Failboat, nobody loses xp, and in fact nobody loses anything more than whatever stake they chose to put up. Since it's completely voluntary on both sides, there's no reason for any restrictions on who can challenge whom. If a raw Newbie would rather not engage a big powerful player all they have to do is not accept the challenge -- it'll expire on its own. (Or, actually, it would be better if they had the option to say they decline, so that the challenger knows it wasn't just that the person didn't happen to log in and see it.)

I can see a problem for the 'unkillable' character, who might eventually find themselves unable to participate, ever. This won't happen so much if clan buffs are nerfed, I suppose, but there will undoubtedly be other ways a character might find themselves boxed in.

It seems to me it would add a lot to the game, not just for this, but in general, if there were more ways players could deliberately acquire handicaps to make the game more challenging. Right now, a Joker can always wait for (or re-roll hoping for) a bad day, but about the only way other races can do this is via exhaustion.

I've been exploring how far the current maxed-out clan buffs will go towards keeping you alive, and it's pretty far. I've had days where I've met twenty monsters after my stamina was at zero. (Now, granted, I've been running from them instead of fighting them, but they get to beat on me while I do this, and I still kill some of the poor suckers before I get away.) The only way I've found to be sure of getting from the jungle to the failboat is to go in with one hit point and negative stamina, look for Very Big Trouble, draw a multiple-monster fight -- and lose the initiative!


 
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Fodder Kid
 Thursday, December 11 2008 @ 04:30 PM UTC  
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for some reason I thought 2 game days was 16 hours.


 
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Count Sessine
 Thursday, December 11 2008 @ 06:41 PM UTC  
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Oh, my mistake. I thought the proposal was two real days. (I should read more carefully!) In that case, I agree with you. At least one real 24-hour day, and two would be better.


 
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Bodoni
 Saturday, December 13 2008 @ 05:12 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Epaphus

Quote by: Bodoni

I got tired of a certain few people hunting me down every time I logged out. I'm sure I don't have to name names.



I'm reasonably sure I'm not on that list.

I like CMJ's Option 2, but I have a question: Will there be a limit to the number of challenges that can be issued/outstanding against a particular player at any given time?

I don't think that you ever attacked me. So no, you're not on THAT list. You're on a better list. Big Grin


 
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Bernard
 Saturday, December 13 2008 @ 04:41 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Bodoni

Quote by: Epaphus

Quote by: Bodoni

I got tired of a certain few people hunting me down every time I logged out. I'm sure I don't have to name names.



I'm reasonably sure I'm not on that list.

I like CMJ's Option 2, but I have a question: Will there be a limit to the number of challenges that can be issued/outstanding against a particular player at any given time?

I don't think that you ever attacked me. So no, you're not on THAT list. You're on a better list. Big Grin



I do hope, Bodoni, given the imminent festive season, that you've checked that list twice... Smile


 
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