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 Dueling Ground
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Anonymous: Syn
 Sunday, August 30 2009 @ 07:28 AM UTC (Read 5034 times)  



It has been repeatedly brought up lately (sometimes subtly, sometimes hit you over the head obviously) that the Common Ground is a place for peaceful interaction. I can understand and respect that people want a safe haven where they can congregate and have nice conversations without people attacking them with sporks and chainsaws, but as a result there isnít much of an outlet for people who, for whatever reason, think it might be fun to make things more physical.

Would it be possible for the Common Ground have a not so pacifist alter ego called the Dueling Ground or some such? A place where people can go off to if they want to have a bit of a tussle or brawl without offending anyone?

Iím not suggesting this should be a place where violating the First Rule is acceptable, but a place where people can have friendly sparring matches and settle differences through plot appropriate fighting when all involved parties are willing.


 
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Beeker
 Sunday, August 30 2009 @ 07:02 PM UTC  
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This sounds like a potentially useful idea, the equivalent of "taking it outside!"

'Cause in the Ground, you can't take it outside if both parties aren't in the same location when they exit.

People often emote that they are in different parts of the Grounds as it is:

* by the bar
* in the treehouses
* by the pond
* in the flowerbeds

Maybe one or two of these could be separate chatspaces, along with Syn's dueling space. I like her idea, lets people blow off steam or whatever, and when it's not being used for dueling I could see it being used for other rowdy activities.

There are chat spaces that I've noticed don't get as much use:

* curious rock
* marriage chapel
* Spiderkitty
* Hunter's Lodge
* Raven Inn (blech, that's 'cause it's boring!)

The Common Grounds is the kitchen of Improbable Island. If you're looking for people, you might look all around, but where do you go if you want to have the greatest chance of finding people? The Common Grounds.

Hey, just brainstorming here: is there a module that would allow you to see, when you do a list of players online, not just their level and race like you see now but also their location?

That way if you said, "Hey, I see four friends of mine are in the marriage chapel", you could know that you could find some conversation there. Or "Hey, there are six people in New Pittsburgh, I could go chat with them, or use the Comm Tent and chat with them."

Granted that's ooc knowledge. But, hey, the Island is big, and it's a way we could enable people to get together more easily, and enliven the chat spaces that we have.


 
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Jon Bishop
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 03:13 AM UTC  
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I'm all for more chat spaces being available from every outpost. Role playing has been horribly difficult after the shift from season 1 to season 2, being that money is more valuable, so using a comms tent can be an issue. And now using a one-shot is terribly costly, too.


 
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Daedalus
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 04:55 AM UTC  
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...hmmm something like a Stadium (smallish but) ... good for sports events, mutually agreed sparring/duels/etc, small scale wars (just kidding) and other big chat events.

Accessed from ... ? This could be tricky ... it needs to be as accessible as CG.

But I like the idea in principle.

D.


The lunatics are taking over the asylum! Come with?
 
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XaNe
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 05:20 AM UTC  
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Yeah, this would be a fantastic way to solve several of the problems people deal with. There are a few people on the island who like a good brawl every once in a while, and there's no place for them to do it without disrupting others. I vote Yea!


Some people see the glass as half full, some people see it as half empty, I just spit in the cup until it isn't a problem anymore.
 
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Skidge
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 06:58 AM UTC  
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Ooh. I rather like that. A formal dueling culture. Challenges. Seconds. Gloves slapped in faces. Honor challenged, honor upheld. Swashing. Buckling.

**descends, not for the first time, into Musketeer fantasyland** Mr. Green

But seriously, it'd be a cool way for people to showcase their various and sundry power mutations, as well as their twisty fancy writing. And it would cut down on the Common Grounds overflowing, which I think everyone will agree has been getting kind of ridiculous of late. I mean, I like plots, and I'd love to be able to follow all of them, but not if it means I have to wade through 30+ pages per day. I'M ALREADY SPENDING FAR TOO MUCH TIME ON THE ISLAND AS IT IS!

Except...well. If a Dueling Ground is established, I'll probably abuse it a bit. Skidge may challenge several people to pun-duels. Big Grin


 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 06:59 AM UTC  
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Yes, I think this is a very good idea. As a moderator I've been trying to keep CG non-violent because violence spoils the game badly for other players who would like to, you know, have conversations, or parties, or concerts, or other actual fun stuff.

If there's a chat space where characters don't go there unless they're okay with the idea of character on character violence, then I will be happy to let them do anything they like to each other in there.

But.

What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. No holding grudges over anything that happens in that space. You go in there? That means you consented.

Side Note to CavemanJoe: WE NEED DWELLINGS. We have an extreme shortage of spaces in which stories can be played out, and there are more players than in Season One, and roleplayers are stepping on each others' toes all the time. (Not to mention the need for homes! People are building their "homes" in the public chat spaces because there isn't anywhere else, which proves that this is something people need. But there's no privacy -- so private matters fill up the public spaces.)


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 10:17 AM UTC  
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Think an important phrase here might be:

"Within Reason"

Allowing people to do whatever they like might end up getting a little... Rough? And Hell, it is quite difficult to not hold a grudge to someone if you've gone so far as said "Let's take this outside," and proceed to beat the Hell out of each other.

It also leads that maybe the scraps that do matter, and are relevant to stories, might be relegated to the dueling ground instead of out in the open just because people don't want to see blood splattered on the square of Improbable Central. Which kinda reduces its credibility, I think.


"You saved Pineapple!"
 
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Count Sessine
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 03:02 PM UTC  
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You make a couple of good points, KK. I think the first one might be solved with a formal dueling culture, where a fight in the Dueling Ground settles the offense. No matter how the fight comes out, that's the end of it.

As for the second... I hear you. But the "no character on character violence" rule is something we've had to institute as a temporary expedient because of the afore-mentioned extreme shortage of chat space. Tempers were flaring, and without some such rule, the whole tone of the Island discourse was going to degenerate badly.

It's not a blanket rule. We're capable of using judgment. If there's an important scrap coming up that matters to a storyline, let the mods know -- and we'll not only let you go ahead, we'll try to run interference to keep non-involved characters from jumping in and messing up your story.

Cultures are ecologies: you can't change just one thing. In Season Two, there's little chance for expression of altruism, there's not enough chat space for the number of players who want to roleplay, and there's no privacy. There are GOOD REASONS for all of this, and a lot of it is temporary. But if we want to keep what makes the Island's culture so special, unique on the Internet... it's turning out that we need some holding actions.


 
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Yrk
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 05:47 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Daedalus

...hmmm something like a Stadium (smallish but) ... good for sports events, mutually agreed sparring/duels/etc, small scale wars (just kidding) and other big chat events.

Accessed from ... ? This could be tricky ... it needs to be as accessible as CG.

But I like the idea in principle.

D.



Gigant coluseum hovering in the sky! ..upside down! you have to jump really high to get to it, but it would be accessible all over the place. As a bonus it would then also be visible all over the place, that way people could get some sort of glory if pvp (oh the lovely yet pointless glory system of the plot~) is enabeled in the coluseum.
This would also make room for new improbable events such as getting hit in the head WITH a head, from some dead contestant, getting randomly showered in blood, finding a new weapon or getting violently sick from getting a gall bladder in your mouth when yawning.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 06:14 PM UTC  
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As you guys know, I'm pretty busy - I'm packing this afternoon, in fact. Smile

However, as I pack and sort my books and so forth, I've been thinking about the chat system and how it can be made more useful / realistic / flexible / fun alongside Dwellings and Tents.

Rough idea, and one that probably wouldn't take too long to knock up:

Splintered Chat.

Problem:
A couple of players (or three or four) want to roleplay having a private discussion, and this is difficult / impossible in the current system. Even with Dwellings, they've only the ability to go into their houses to talk - IRL, they could just nip into an alleyway somewhere, or splinter off from the main group of people and talk in hushed tones.

Potential solution:
Ability to spawn an auxiliary chatspace alongside existing ones. Chatspaces can be public or private. Private chatspaces are invisible to players who aren't on the guest list.

Opinions?


 
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Skidge
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 06:37 PM UTC  
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Ooooooh. That would be... Eek!. I welcome any chance for my chattiness to only irritate the people who rather like being irritated by my chattiness, rather than everyone in the Common Grounds. And it would be a terrific way to keep conversations organized.

Regardless of the existence of splintered chats, it doesn't solve the issue regarding violent debates on the Island. I love splintered chat as an idea, I think it would be splendid, but I also think a Dueling Ground would be useful to solve the particular problem of "what to do when tempers flare". Specifically, it would establish what Sessine said before; a dueling culture.

Edited to delete something I said because apparently I need to learn how to read. Never mind!

Edited again to add: Ohhhh, a splinterchat for the Library Corral. Bliss. Pure. Unadulterated. Bliss.


 
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Zolotisty
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 08:42 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count Sessine

No holding grudges over anything that happens in that space. ... No matter how the fight comes out, that's the end of it.



..i don't want to say 'fat chance,' but..

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Ability to spawn an auxiliary chatspace alongside existing ones. Chatspaces can be public or private. Private chatspaces are invisible to players who aren't on the guest list.

Opinions?



You have been trying to get us to agree to splintered chats for SUCH a long time. Please-no. Please. A pop-up, fine, but SPLINTERING an already cramped column of text into TWO very cramped columns of text decreases usability and limits available chatspace. You don't chat on the Island, Dan, you aren't wading through it every day as either a player or a moderator. That will make things ugly, more chaotic, and more complex. Do Not Want. It is a sort of attractive idea in theory but as previous iterations of this idea stand, it is NOT going to work well in practice. I will direct you to a FLASHING RED MARQUEE that says 'No Please No' if I have to. Confused



Anyway, I like the original idea generally -- establish a Coliseum or Dueling Ground in one Outpost. Maybe Improbable Central or Squat Hole; we can have flavour text wherein the Midgets bet on the outcome of the fight. Maybe you buy tickets for a pittance to get in for several Days, like paying a pittance to use the Comms Tent. Let people get into their kerfuffles there.

also: please dwellings or something i beg you again for a stripped down stopgap and we are losing players because we don't have that please oh please hummina hummina hummina.


insanely committed players. donating players. players who achieved 500 DKs in your game. these kinds of players.


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 09:03 PM UTC  
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No - no, not like that. Not the two-chatspaces-side-by-side thing, I think we've pretty well covered that with Location Four. Just the ability for a player to create a new chatspace, into which they can invite certain others for clandestine stuff. Like Clan Halls, only more flexible, and like Dwellings, only more spontaneous.

(not a replacement for Dwellings, mind)


 
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Fergus
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 09:38 PM UTC  
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I think Splintered Chat could be a great solution, if it can be done right.
It'd be great to have a sort of second chatspace when you're trying to organize something for roleplaying and such, but what if you're not in that private list of something you'd like to read, not really interject? I know there are some things people would really want to make private and unreadable, but I'd like a way to read ones that are roleplaying in little groups. Perhaps make three levels of it? An open one, one closed to comment, and a totally closed, no-reading-unless-you-are-on-the-list one? Make the open one like the normal areas with 7 days of comments saved, the closed to comment ones with maybe 2~3 days saved, and the totally closed only save for up to a day, probably even less. That could hopefully offset any extra server load, too.

As per a 'Dueling Ground', I could hardly see good come out of it in the end. While it's nice for aggressive characters to butt heads, it will attract drama if they don't meet OOC and talk out a plan. This is doubly so for when two people who don't like each other start doing the 'I punch you in the face you die!' 'Nuh-uh! I dodge and shoot you with a gun! You die!' 'No, I deflected the bullet and blow you up with a bomb!' 'Hah! I'm immune to everything! I can't be blown up! You lose!', etc.


 
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SinkOrSwim
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 09:57 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Fergus

The 'I punch you in the face you die!' 'Nuh-uh! I dodge and shoot you with a gun! You die!' 'No, I deflected the bullet and blow you up with a bomb!' 'Hah! I'm immune to everything! I can't be blown up! You lose!', etc.



Didn't I referee that one? Neutral

I'm all for anything that means I don't have to trawl 40 pages to catch up with events in the Gardens...


... Grace is just the measure of a fall ...
 
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Symar
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 10:28 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

No - no, not like that. Not the two-chatspaces-side-by-side thing, I think we've pretty well covered that with Location Four. Just the ability for a player to create a new chatspace, into which they can invite certain others for clandestine stuff. Like Clan Halls, only more flexible, and like Dwellings, only more spontaneous.

(not a replacement for Dwellings, mind)




I suppose it depends on both how temporary they are, and if dwellings add anything other than a chatspace. Because I'd just skip the dwellings and use these temporary chats.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Monday, August 31 2009 @ 10:33 PM UTC  
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Fergus, what you're talking about is 'dickery'. Has this sort of thing started flaring up? I haven't noticed it, but I haven't been on the island for a week or so for various reasons. At one point recently I was going to get quite violent in the CG, mainly chasing Master Thief Vincent who was seen thieving from the Hole on one occasion. It would have back fired on myself as often as not, and I think it could have been quite fun.It never really happened because every time I went into CG to set traps or whatever, someone else was in the middle of roleplaying and I didn't want to interupt them.

The general problem it seems to me is people using characters to pander to their own egos, taking themselves far too seriously, not thinking about everyone else, and being unable to laugh at themselves. Is this what's been going on? In which case unpleasent character on character violence is just a symptom.

I'm afraid Sessine that Cantankerous Biggs is entirely capable of holding grudges for a long, long, time. Any slight, real or imagined will be enough to set him off. But only if I think it will be sufficiently amusing thing to play. There's a huge difference between characters holding grudges and players doing the same. I wouldn't want everything to be fluffy, that would be boring don't you think?


 
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Adder Moray
 Tuesday, September 01 2009 @ 12:05 AM UTC  
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As per a 'Dueling Ground', I could hardly see good come out of it in the end. While it's nice for aggressive characters to butt heads, it will attract drama if they don't meet OOC and talk out a plan. This is doubly so for when two people who don't like each other start doing the 'I punch you in the face you die!' 'Nuh-uh! I dodge and shoot you with a gun! You die!' 'No, I deflected the bullet and blow you up with a bomb!' 'Hah! I'm immune to everything! I can't be blown up! You lose!', etc.[/p]


As someone who cut his teeth on combat RP I have a small suggestion.

If this comes to pass, why not have a willing 3rd party act as a referee/spectator?

Basically a setup like this:

Combatants: Adder Moray vs Nom Deplume

Announcer/Spectator/Referee: Anspectoree

Round 1

Adder Moray

Adder will remove his jacket and throw it into Nom's face as a distraction. While Nom is busy with that, Adder will make a run for his opponent, lashing out with his sickle the instant Nom becomes disentangled.

If the jacket ploy fails, Adder will play defense, keeping his distance as best he can. Being less encumbered he should be able to move faster than his opponent.

Nom Deplume

Nom will rev his chainsaw and flail wildly while running towards Adder

Anspectoree

((Different levels of formality based on role))

Adder takes off his jacket and throws it in Nom's direction, however it is shredded upon contact with Nom's chainsaw. Nom charges Adder, but he is unable to land a blow on his currently more agihle opponent.


Round two would be the same, except the person who went second in the previous round would have to go first this round.


 
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Fergus
 Tuesday, September 01 2009 @ 01:18 AM UTC  
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Well, I've kinda been away as well, but it seems to me that people have implied that something like that could happen with some of the people on isle. Who knows, I may just be making up the imaginary worst case scenario. However, even smaller drama is a problem.

I like Adder Moray's idea for a referee. Some third party that is trusted to treat both sides' actions equally and make a fun result could make it work.


 
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