The houses are in, I learned about half an hour ago! (I do not keep up with the Enquirer, so I am badly behind the times.) So, since the Dwellings thread is like 10 pages long, this will be a convenient new thread to express your opinions on the new feature.
To start off, I was dismayed that there are only four plots available at any location on the map. The towns will fill up immediately, which is no big deal, there's still the area right around the towns. But with as many people play this game, it probably won't take long for those to start filling up, either. And for someone with only 18 cigs at the moment, getting the 100 necessary to buy a plot might take a distressingly long time. It just doesn't seem fair to limit the most easily accessible plots to people who had 100 cigs on hand at the right moment.
(Sorry to start this off in a negative way. I understand that Dan's put a lot of hard work into this, and I'm not ripping his throat out about this, just expressing my view on the matter. Something to maybe consider.)
I couldn't appreciate the limit more, actually. There is no need to stuff these squares like slums. Four is enough, and if you need the cigarettes for it, spend some DP.
Hell, I spent some DP to get all four plots on one square, just to own it (It is a brilliant investment.)
Also, Dan. Thank you kindly.
I agree wholeheartedly with you on that Zolotisty, but I actually didn't do it all myself. I did the wood myself, and my friend handled the stone herself. (That's a heck of a feat to take the stone from 404 all the way to the beach SE of Kit.) I just found it a little tough to find willing volunteers to help build my house while they worked on their own. I have no complaints with the system, I was just stating what it took me to complete my meager beach house.
Edit: I do remember one small thing that bothered me, whenever I want to change the description of a room, say if I added a small present such as a painting or a plant into it, I have to redecorate for the same number of times that I already have, and then more for the text you just added. I don't think it would require you to tear down all the wallpaper and replace the flooring just to put a plant in a corner, or an end table beside a couch. But that's just my silly opinion.
First of all DWELLINGS!! YIPPEE!! Dan I love you and I want to have your babies.
Second. I'm with KK on the above debate. Whatever his thoughts on dwellings and donators, he's playing with the system as is. Anyway, as I recall, he only said that Dwellings shouldn't be off limits to non donators. Not that donators shouldn't have any advantages. The ability to buy cigs and req has always been with us, and hasn't caused any problems that I've noticed. This is just an extension of that.
Having said that...if too many people start using DP to buy entire squares, then there may be a bit of a problem, there's only so many squares to go round, but at the moment I don't see that it's a problem at all.
Third. Is there anyway two or more people could pool cigs to help buy a stake?
I'm utterly in awe, and I haven't even got a sideboard. A one room shack is giving me a frisson, and I love it.
Begging your pardon, KK, but not everyone can afford to spend money on the game and earn enough DPs to do that. You yourself once made such a point about houses.
Which this has absolutely nothing to do with, whatsoever.
I was pointing out that I used the limit to my advantage by simply buying all of the stakes with some DP.
I never said that someone else ought to do the same thing. I am not suggesting that you...
Wait, what the Hell are you implying that I suggested?
-Also. You honestly didn't think to be saving cigarettes when "The end of the week is neigh" was announced?
I have to say, the amount of effort it requires to have even so much as a one room house with a decent description for each part is both a good and bad thing. It took me about 15 ciggies and just as many chrono's to finish everything in my one room house. This is a good thing in a way, because it raises the difficulty of someone having a 10 room house with 2 paragraph descriptions. But it is also a bad thing, in that the average user, who has few DP will have a very rough time getting that far.
That aside, I like the new system. Though I hope there are more things to come in the future, as a chat space alone is a little dull, whereas a chat space with training or bonus facilities is a little more exciting. One thing that would be nice to have though is an option to give certain players the key to your house. Meaning that if you locked a room(s) specific people would still be able to access them, and use the sleeping space/bonus facilities found therein. I imagine this is all already planned at some point, but I just thought I'd add my two cents.
The collaborative nature of the building is, in my opinion, one of the more exciting features of this system. I'm really liking it!
So, I'd be in favor of Hairy Mary's idea of a way for people to pool resources to set up a stake. That would make it even more collaborative, and would also mean that there wouldn't be as much of a land rush, because lots of people would have shared houses.
Also, I'm looking forward to when the key system will become more flexible and we'll be able to give out multiple keys to a house, which will again make it easier to have collective projects.
Much the same way that Improbable Labs is closed to players with fewer than 10 DKs, some things come with seniority and time on the Island. It takes time in the Jungle to gather the money to buy a ring to marry another player or to play with any of the fancy equipment in Sheila's. It takes time in the Jungle to collect the cigarettes to upgrade your backpack, or max your clan buffs, or to purchase a land claims stake.
These aren't things that should be easy to do. In fact, the entire point is that they aren't easy. Neat things with a high entry level provide incentive for players to work toward a goal and spend more time on the Island. More time on the Island means you're likelier to make friends, tell people about the game, or donate to the site. We likes these things.
Dwellings are designed as collaborative. Mack, you say that it took you a lot of hauling around and a lot of chronospheres? Yuh! That'll happen, if you're doing it all on your own. Tossing a house together on your own sweet lonesome is always going to be harder than pulling four or five friends together for a barn-raising; the point is for people to find those four or five friends so that a building goes up in two hours or less, instead of two IRL days.
People keep angling for tool kits somewhere other than IC; people keep angling for cheaper stakes. People are privately mumbling about high stamina costs. People are certainly paranoid about squares going away and oh my goodness there are six hundred and fifty four buildable squares on the map (or thereabouts, anyway), and each one holds four potential dwellings, so that 2616 buildings that can ever be built on Improbable Island and perhaps a hundred have already been nabbed in the first day.
2616! Why, we have almost that many players! And almost 1800 of them logged in in the last week. I- isn't that a problem? Everything is going away, aaah!
Well, nawh. :/
Everyone who wants a Dwelling will have one. If we suddenly run out of space, if someone literally lays claim to the very last spot on the entire Island ever, there will be a zoning adjustment. And besides -- the world map is going to undergo radical change in S3. We will never run out of spaces for people to build in S3.
As it is, construction is supposed to be a pain in the ass. Don't be disappointed by that; don't be lazy and try to nose around for longer rental times on the kits or kits situated in an Outpost that's more convenient for you, personally. You are supposed to feel as though you worked for it and earned it, from collecting your cigarettes for the stake to "jesus christ why am I schlepping like two hundred kilos of stone down to NewHome." It is not supposed to be something you can whack together in an afternoon, and because it's something that more senior players are most likely to be interested in, it doesn't have to be rook-friendly.
The folks who are gobbling up spaces right now have earned 'em. Awesome things always require a bit of elbow grease. Stakes should be singleton ventures. You earn that part yourself, or you buy it with DPs; then you tug your friends in with construction.
It's worth it. They are awesome, it is worth it. Just gotta put in the time.
On the subject of keys and locked rooms:
I don't know what the current functionality is exactly, but it occurs to me to request that a person carrying a key be able to enter and exit rooms *without* automatically changing their locked/unlocked status. That way, if the owner decides to make an "office" room private by locking it, but gives a key to another user (business partner, let's say), neither has to worry about re-locking the room every time they enter and leave.
On the subject of cooperation and claiming a stake:
I am not much of a role-player, here on the Island, but I definitely am into community interaction. It's somewhat exciting for me to think of having my own house, but what I would find far more attractive would be the ability to build my clan hall somewhere on the map. Right now, with stakes as purely singleton ventures, the process can be shared, and once a house is built, access can be shared, but ownership can't be shared, and only individuals may claim ownership.
I would be very excited about the opportunity for my clan to claim a stake, owned not by myself or any fellow clan member, but by the clan itself. I would love being able to set a preference that forces interested players to locate our secret headquarters in order to apply for membership. And imagining stumbling upon the headquarters of another clan while traveling gives me a little thrill of excitement. I would love to have my clan's description come from visiting its actual location, and write the public description in the general Clan Halls differently—perhaps I would need to give the receptionist a death stick or a small bribe in order to be able to place my garish advertisement on the lobby wall. Or maybe things would work differently—in any case, there are a million ways that a clan's presence could be managed which would be far more interesting than the current "click the list, see all the clans" setup. I can feel that I'm getting into territory that's both tangential and more appropriate for additions to a future season than changes to the current season, but I'm just riding this train of thought wherever it goes, while it lasts...
Anyhoo, it seems reasonable that a clan hall would require a greater effort than an individual dwelling. Perhaps it takes up two of the four available plots. Perhaps it takes one, but costs more (commercial permit, and all). Perhaps the claim is handled in the same way, and can be made by any Leader or Founder, but only one can be in existence for a given clan. Perhaps it can be demolished, the claim sold, and moved to another location... perhaps not. Most likely it would require a far greater volume of materials than an individual house, and perhaps it would have some additional requirement. Or perhaps it will simply be functionally identical to other dwellings, with the only difference being that it ownership is registered with the clan rather than with an individual, and the rest could be worked out purely with whatever resources the player already has at their disposal. Whatever the cost, I would be willing to pay—even DP, provided we retain the ability to obtain DP in some way that does not involve real currency (monster hut, monster rating, referral link, and so on).
I would get so much more enjoyment out of building a clan hall that I'm reconsidering even buying myself a house at this point. 100 cigarettes is a good chunk of a buff payment, and my clan is my priority. Building myself a house does relatively little that I can see for my clan.
I hope that when (fingers crossed!) clan ownership of buildings becomes possible, there will be a mechanism to transfer ownership of an existing building to a clan -- because some clans are going ahead and making their clan halls anyway with what we have now.
I also hope that there will be a way to create access to and from the clan hall, in a building owned by the clan.
That last bit sounds like effortless teleportation from any village on the map to and from the clan hall... which I would find to be a bit much, personally. Unless you meant it differently.
I think Sessine meant replicating the functionality of the clan hall. Which, along with everything mentioned about clans already, is feasible with the new Dwellings system.
(in Season Three, all weapons and armour will be IItems, all possible actions will be Stamina actions, and all buildings (including shops etc) will be based on Dwellings)
My initial problem, the only thing I've had issue with, is the limited number of plots per land. Yeah, there are rather a lot of spaces available. But I don't really want to walk several squares away from a outpost through jungle. 2616 squares? Yeah, that's a lot of building space. Most of it isn't very close to outposts, and I want my house to be easily accessible. I have no problem with the cost, stamina or cig, because the costs were outlandish in S1, too. It was something to work for. This, I understand and appreciate.
Having spoken civilly and plainly, it's pretty aggravating to me that I was greeted with antagonism.
What I meant was (simple version) entering clan hall from a clan-owned building, and exiting clan hall back to the square you entered from rather than to an outpost. No teleportation involved.
OR (more exciting, but should be expensive), being able to enter a clan-owned building from the clan hall, role-play there, move about the rooms, and then leave -- to find yourself back in clan hall, rather than on the world map.
The basic rule for clan hall would still be, you go back out to wherever you entered from.
I also really hope ownership transfers are eventually going to be available between players, as well as from players to a clan.
I'm guessing that communication isn't included in "actions". But that's an assumption. I hope we won't be spending any significant amount of stamina to do things like browse through Shelia's for new stuff at the beginning of a DK... And personally, I'd wince at the thought of having to expend stamina to purchase or sell an item, as that's a cost that I'd have to pay several hundreds of times in the course of a healthy trade run! Though it would probably be only fair.
Personally, I do like the idea of pulling together a few friends to build a house, though I think (given that I personally have done this IRL, though it was a b****) it should be more'n possible for five friends to knock together the general frame and foundation of a six room house (or foundation and frame of a three room house, what with having to use actual stone instead of concrete) within a single morning. High weight and stamina cost I definitely do understand (since after preforming said feat of skill and labor I slept for thirteen hours), but this brings up another far off longing of mine:
Where oh where did my BullDozer go?
I did so adore that massive GEBoB, with his big shaggy coat and his wide grille of a mouth. I think they could be a drastic return here, for a variety of reasons. (Helping you carry loads of stone from the mountains, for instance. Or maybe just carrying around that toolbox while you carry 250kg of rock yourself.) I think this new Dwellings system opens up wonderful opportunities for this old mount of S1 and prior.
Anyway, more feedback on dwellings! Awesome. I like the idea of having dwellings on the map, but I do somewhat miss the city-based dwellings as well, tough these would be MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE to keep around staminawise what with the constant outpost invasions and repairs, unless of course your Hired Goons (AKA former PvP guards) to keep your house relatively protected. Those, of course, would cost extra cigs, but just maybe they'd be worth it.
Mapsquaresmapsquaresmapsquares. I do enjoy the idea of a limit, yes I do. No point in having 30 houses in one square kilometer. But really? Look around you. Chances are, there are at least 6 houses within a klick's walk away from you. Probably more. DEFINITELY more if you live in a city or those dastardly suburbs. But what I'm really going for with this little part is, terrain! Logically, you'd have far less houses in a square kilometer of swamp than plains, with jungle halfway in between. Perhaps in S3 terrain type will have an effect on the amount of house plots per square?
Preemptive question answer regarding first paragraph, I've dabbled in professional construction, and those 5 friends were professional contractors. Still a b**** to pull off, though. Maybe a two room house then, given the supposed average level of skill of abducted contestants.
Once again. Just expressing my opinion. Not complaining, not angry. So I am a little incensed and confused about this hostility of yours, KK. I think it's perfectly reasonable for me to offer my opinion about this development without sneering remarks being directed my way.
Anyway. I think it would be perfectly reasonable that some squares have more plots than others. An outpost, for god's sake, is essentially a town. Towns have clusters of houses within them. Plains are pretty wide open and spacious, so a little more than four houses per plot would make sense. Hard to build a house in the middle of a lake, though. So maybe one plot (because this is Improbable Island--someone would try their damnedest to do this).
No, You were originally complaining about the rather steep price of a stake and the whole, "I'm worried about not getting a close spot."
I'm 'Incensed' because I saved up for a Hell of a long time. You could have as well, and this whole problem wouldn't be there, ay?
If you two are gonna argue, don't do it all over my hard drive.
I've got this image in my head now of two tiny people with comically high-pitched voices spinning 'round and 'round on a platter with their hands around each other's throats.
So THAT'S what makes the grinding noise when a HDD goes tits-up!
Ah, well. I guess I'll put my request here, then.
A thought about dropping wood and stone on the map: sometimes it can be a bit frustrating when you leave wood at your dwelling, only for someone else to steal it away and take it elsewhere.
Maybe have a "drop off" area at each dwelling? I could imagine it working somewhat similarly to the reck and cig storage that dwellings had in the first season. Everyone would be free to add supplies to that dwelling's storage, and are free to use the supplies in the storage to help build the dwelling. Now, if the owner of the dwelling wants to share their supplies, they could choose and option to share all supplies in their storage. If not, they could choose an option to disallow for people to take supplies in the storage. Of course, wood and stone could still be dropped on the map.
I'm not sure if that's somewhat of a greedy suggestion, as the fact that anyone can swipe your supplies away is all part of the risk of deciding to drop them off unguarded.
Both KK and Gorbert bring up good points.
Why not? Many cultures have some sort of stilt-house, and raft houses are not out of the question. Of course, stone would be iffy, but maybe you could harvest some nice floaty peat from the bogs around Squathole perhaps? Maybe you could just build the entire thing out of lots (and lots and lots and lots) of wood. Or maybe find some stone that floats, whatever, it is Improbable Island.
Prices and saving!
If I had known they were so close (or checked at all) I would've definitely saved up quite a bit, though I don't regret giving those ciggies to my clan no I don't. As for the high prices right now, I mentioned before how I definitely understand the stamina used to knock together a house, and if dwellings are even half as awesome as I think they'll be, then I have no doubt that it is well worth the cost in ciggies. (Used to be a mansion cost what? 110 cigs or summat? I'd venture to say that a one room shack now will be as awesome as those mansions used to be.)
Yes. There should be more spaces or less spaces due to terrain type, and as I said for suburbs or actually in cities there should be space aplenty (Especially around IC. By god, that entire plain will be covered in houses. It'll be a REAL SIZE CITY, GOODNESS.)
Ideal housing areas.
Yes, the 'good spots' right next to or over towns will fill up relatively quick with the 4 square unit. This means that we'll have the dreaded suburban sprawl somewhere, but that'd probably happen anyway right? Either avoiding that or joining it would be most peoples' decisions for housing, closer to towns the better for some. I, however, plan to build Rosin's house according to her personality. (That would normally mean a Nostalgic Building right atop IC, but more realistically, now that it's taken up, somewhere on a promontory in the jungle where she can see the city.) Likewise, I'd fully expected both Zolotisty and Sessine to immediately lay claim to the land surrounding AceHigh. (Fond memories of the Fastness' appearance, and tales of Tumbledown, come to mind.) And I'd expect that most of the more serious roleplayers will take this into closer consideration if they read this:
Where oh where would your character build? Oh where oh where would they beeeee? Oops. Sorry, singing.
By this, I mean, where is a significant place for your character? The riverside where she had her first kiss? The site of his first kill of the Tattoo Mutant? Does he value his environmental conditions over her route to town? Does she like the idea of a massive fortress stronghold deep in an impenetrable part of the jungle? Does it want to find an area where its brood can hunt and frolic and hunt more and joke around and cover entire trees with birds that have shifty eyes? (I'm looking at you, Chimental. One of you, anyhow.) Do your character and their spouse want a beach house? A mountainside retreat? Some place at the edge of the swamp so they can row out into the lake and just enjoy a nice day out on the water? Lots of stuff to consider before you just run out and go "MINE!"
Also, directly to KK, I fully expect the plot that you bought for yourself to be turned into a fully impregnable Victoria compound. The island would feel empty without one.
I think it would be good to standardize Suzie's Tool Rental, if not land registry. Put a hardware store (rental) in every town, like Mike's Chop Shop. So if you're working on a project in AceHigh, you don't have to make the tedious (and stamina-consuming) trek to IC to renew your rentals.
As Gorbert says, would make sense for tool distribution to be.. Distributed.
I'd like to think that carpentry tools would be easy to find in forrested areas such as AceHigh and Kittania, and the Robots definitely have some mining equipment up there, so why shouldn't they lend them for ciggs? The Midgets could probably even steal decorating kits, and Mutants would carry 'em standard. (Spruce up that house, but remember to cover that mirror with paint. There you are, a perfectly painted wall and nicely arranged pictureframes. No, there's not anything in them, what would the point be in that?)
Observation: If everyone rushes to spend stamina on building, no-one is fighting the monsters, and outposts get overrun. Breached outposts cause big problems for builders.
It will be interesting to see how this one settles out.
I, for one, support the idea of making toolkits available in other cities. It doesn't have to be all of them, but I think that it would encourage players to build in the more out-of-the-way areas of the map, if the distance from IC wasn't such a major factor.
I'm thinking about this not so much from the difficulty or "fairness" aspect from the player's POV, but rather the encouragement enjoyable gaming.
One consequence which I certainly hadn't foreseen. Lots of people have been piling up to CC404 with one-shots to harvest stone, piling straight out of the city gates and getting stuck in to the first piece of rock that they clap eyes on. The area directly out of the gates has now turned into an impromptu quarry with absolutely no regulations whatsoever.
Those health and safety executives are all having heart attacks! Wahay!!
In the rather longer term however, I have visions of so much rock being quarried, that in three or four months time there's just going to be a ruddy great hole there with one spike of rock sticking up with CC404 precariously balanced on top of it. All it's going to take is for one rather unwise Midget to try taking a block out of the spike, and the results will be... interesting. He'll certainly have a hell of a headache in the morning.
I could give my experience of Onslaught, but that's a whole other topic, and I don't want to derail this thread. Is it time to open up discussion on this somewhere else?
Back on topic. Does anyone know, is it possible to build rooms in circles (so room A has a door going to room B, room B has a door going to room C and room C has a door going back to room A again?) If so, how do the locks work? You can stop people going from older rooms to newer rooms?
Mmm. About the limit-per-square thing: does it not make sense to open up more squares on the Outpost spaces? I'm all for limiting the number of houses elsewhere (even four sounds like a lot to me, honestly), but I think that there should be a much higher limit on the outposts. They're actual towns, after all! Improbable Central has never looked busy enough to me. Why not more houses?
Alllllso. I love the group-to-buy-a-stake idea. I'd also really appreciate the ability to share ownership after the dwelling has been built or staked or whatever.
Well, easy enough to find out who's been swiping. Merely go and see who's got more than one site that's been completed but has low stats on buil...ding........
**looks at her own stats**
**eyes her own two dwellings**
Never-mind. They might just know some top-of-the-line great wonderful awesome people and not be stealing at ALL.
As queen (okay, maybe not queen, maybe duchess or baroness or whatever,) of wordy descriptions that go on and on for a year and a day and a half until the end of time when robot cockroaches rule the world, may I humbly request a status bar to indicate how far one is along with decoration of a given thing? I'm slowly but surely reaching 200+ decoration turn descriptions, and I know I'm not the only one **eyes KK**.
(Ooh! Baroness of Babbling! Duchess of Description! Countess of Chattering! Marquess of My God She Never Shuts Up!)
Yes, that's right, KK, I sneak into your house(s) at night and stare around at the decorations, eyes popping, murmuring, "how does he get the text to be bold like that? I just don't....how...but..." And then the dogs find me, and there's a whole heck of a lot of hilarious yelping and running and swinging on chandeliers and a whole hallway montage of me and them running into and out of various rooms, sometimes coming out of doors that we did not go into. It's great. You'd probably be woken up except YOUR DWELLING IS SO DAMN HUGE.
I was wondering where all the jam went and why the kitchen had a bison in it.
It was a very rude awakening. The bison broke a window!
I didn't throw it out of the window. I threw it into the window. The window just happened to break.
I found out the hard way you should not put your house all the way across the island from where the mountains are. I'm going to have fun hauling them 2 at a time all the way to New Home!
Still need to get all your mates to help carry it, else experience shows that it will all start disappearing into other folks dwellings all too soon
One of the reasons dropping building supplies is such a problem isn't even "stealing" per se. It's as simple as neighbors getting confused as to what supplies belong to whom. It's bad enough when it's only 2 home owners building on the same square. Where it gets really messy is when each home owner has a gang of friends actively helping, or worse they have friends/clannies dropping off supplies and others building so no one can keep track of what belongs to whom.
Perhaps supplies could be made droppable inside the plot/dwelling? Something does need to be done because most of us do want to be good neighbors.
Similarly sleeping facilities. I'm very unhappy that the only way to control who sleeps in my house is to totally lock it off. I really want to allow friends and neighbors to use it - perhaps strangers who ask? Or post a message in the room? But finding your house filled with strangers so there's no room for your clanmates is awkward.
In general I think the social interactions related to dwellings need a careful 2nd look and adjustments.
Freya, I think that locks and being able to give out keys is on the way, which will go some way to addressing your second point.
As for the first, I think that that's a good idea, especially after you've got your first lockable room, you should be able to store stone and wood in it. Might mess up the decor somewhat though...
OK, fixed that bug. I think.
It was a right whore running up to the edge of the mountains from Pleasantville...
So, Mack recently awoke to find that the room he was sleeping in no longer exists!
I will assume this was a part of the error fixing with getting rid of the extra rooms that were added with the first completed houses, and I can accept that. It's just slightly frustrating to have put time into decorating a room to have it all disappear all of a sudden.
Yeah, I got nailed for 19 stone, and I was the ONLY one with a claim at New Home. I did 9 stone, had to use a chronospehre, dropped it, ran to IC for a masonry kit, got back and it was gone. Got 10 more and the same thing! I think I figured out who did it too. Still, it was quite frustrating to waste 2 days in a row because of a thief.
It's one of the few times I've found a real need for an Alt. Drop the materials, pick 'em up with the Alt. Run back, harvest more. Rinse & repeat.
So what if the Alt's backpack is horribly overloaded? They're not going anywhere.
It's a crying shame that we need to resort to such complicated means... but it appears that the Recruiting Crews don't rate a moral sense highly in the prereq's of those they kidnap. *Sighs*
Can I point out to people, one consequence. Apart from effects on the outpost invasions, the effects on looking after of rookies? People aren't going in to Newhome and making the rookie page in the wiki known, and generally being welcoming so much any more.
Can we try and make a point of doing this occasionally please? Especially as CMJ's just had an advertising drive. We all know that it's good for everyone in the long run.
It would be nice to have more people than just Ebenezer welcoming rookies in NewHome, but I don't think it's a dwelling-related issue, really. Otherwise, it could really be a jungle fighting issue, or a travelling issue, or a drive kill issue as well. Besides that, some friends and clannies and I are building a social spot for rookies and clanless contestants, which I plan on recruiting in-character volunteers for, and posting advertisements about everywhere. So spending time on dwellings doesn't necessarily mean shunning rookies.
Feedback? Idea time! Really flexible key system please?
Regular keys (possibly cost 5 cigs to forge one?) for the whole dwelling, or linked to certain rooms
Master keys (10+ cigs to forge, limited numbers per dwelling) for the whole dwelling
Secure rooms so that only people with regular keys can enter
Secure rooms so that people with regular keys can lock or unlock them at will
Secure rooms so that only people with master keys can enter
Master keys would, ideally, enable the holder to lock and unlock rooms, enter private rooms, and use options like new build jobs, descriptions, and forging regular keys. Contestants should be able to relinquish their keys, including dwelling owners as long as someone else holds a master key.
Yes Esc, you're right. Ebenezer has been doing stirling work above and beyond the call of duty there. There are others who go in from time to time, but it is mainly Ebenezer. I go there far less often than I might myself. I spent an hour or so in their today, but that was the first time in ages. Now I'm up in CC404.
In which case, can everyoneelse try and go in a bit more often, and do their thing?
I like your idea of a rookie clanless/contestant social spot. Excellent work there. No good ideas to add though.
I don't mind people using my floating castle for rookies. It would have been great for someone to show me the ropes at first, but I muddled through on my own. Hmm, maybe tomorrow after work I'll get on and try to help some of the new people for a couple hours.
I love Dwellings. I'll just put that out there right now
But I think the interface for the House Owner is probably a bit overloaded, especially with a bigger house (Namely, the "Decoration Management" section). The Decoration Management and Lock/Unlock rooms could probably both fall under the heading of "House Management", along with Giving People Keys. I like Esc's idea of 3 different key/room levels, personally. Would actually help a lot with Clan-run Dwellings (Leaders and maybe officers could have Master Keys, members could have regular keys, etc.)
Yeah... using an alt for this is pretty cheaty, guys. Alts are only allowed on the Island at all because folks like to use them for RP. It'd be far, far easier for me to block alts altogether than it is for me to write in checks for every module where alts would allow a potential exploit.
If you told me the price of Master keys was that I'd never be able to do a midget run again, I'd say, "go for it." If you told me they'd cost 100 cigs, I'd empty my tobacco pouch. If you told me I'd never be able to use a plasma gun again, I'd happily do runs with a spork. If you told me it would cause all tea to disappear from the island, I'd sedate Ebenezer then say, "I'll take two."
Also, I love Dwellings. I hadn't said that yet. Love them.
Could I ask some one, anyone, to extend the wikki on Dwellings? And add a link to the Rookie advisory when it's done. I'd do it myself, but I haven't built anything, so ... *shrug*
As some one who wasn't around in S1, they're a bit confusing.
An example: when they were first introduced, I saw all these logs lying around and thought they were 'dropped' in the same way that crates are. I picked some up, thought, "shit, they're heavy", and dropped them again. I'm guessing other new arrivals are doing the same. Later I hired some kit in IC, tried it out on other's projects,(ie: donated the produce), and haven't gone back since. That's the sum total of my knowledge about dwellings. I still don't know what the ongoing costs are. Do stakes expire if not built on within a given time? And what the heck is this stuff about keys? (usw).
As things stand, I still don't know how even the basic process works, and have gone from looking forward to them prior to their introduction to "It's all too complicated, I'm not going to bother (yet)." Now I know some of you are thinking "that's your choice, on your own head be it", and I agree, but I think it'd be useful (at least) for Rookies and dummies like me to have a basic 'instruction manual' available.
And in the longer run, either resources need some form of protection (drop off sites within staked plots, as suggested above, seems best,) or else players need to suck it up, as 'losing' stuff is going to be part of the game. i.e 'Use it or lose it', as you can't stockpile it securely.
Good point with adding the Logs/Stones to the advisory. Also, as far as the safe storage of logs/stones, it would probably be fairest if you could only "store" as many stones/logs as the current build project would require.
On another note, do Nested rooms work properly? Didn't want to start a new room on my Castle until I'm sure it'll branch off from the Dining Hall, and not directly from the Main Courtyard...
D. Good point about adding something about what these stones and wood and dwellings are lying around, but not a whole page. There's a lot in there, and it's rather good fun finding it out as you go along.
Alright, my feedback here is a little different, though I'll start off by saying that I love the dwellings.
(I'd also be pleased if we can make kitchens that serve food, shops that can sell eBoy-type items, or inferior healing tents.)
The real issue I bring up is the consolidation of skills. I am a power-player; I love to try to max out my stats, but I am also fairly reasonable when it comes to playing for flavor.
As such, I frown every time I see that I have 100 Reinforcement skill but that I'm currently at only 13 Carpentry skill. Reinforcing skill is about hammering planks of wood. Carpentry is somewhat similar. It feels very narrow for the Reinforcement skill to only apply to outpost walls, even though I do recognize that almost all of the skills are one-trick ponies.
I have absolutely no problem with the high stamina costs of building; my troubles lie in that there are currently no racial bonuses that modify the dwelling-based skills that I've seen (I haven't checked robots, actually, which I remember do have a Reinforcement benefit, but I will never use them again because I love a high-defense playstyle) and that I have to start the dwelling skills from scratch when thematically, my Reinforcement could have been Carpentry all this time and I could have had a bonus to start out with.
That being said, I'm fine if my whine is rebutted convincingly. I am pleased that, extrapolating what I've seen, that the 5% stamina costs all drop to a 2% at level 100. It really makes each skill-raise worthwhile. I do enjoy the effort and achievement aspect of getting my skills up, and once my initial dwelling construction is complete (at 62 logs) and I have a place to sleep, I'll be straight Logging until 100 (at 20 now) and dropping all the wood at my feet, free for anyone to come and take if they need. (Directly north of Kittania and east of Pleasantville).
Aimless afterthought: Because I have a very low amount of cigs (having recently bought the plot and not being a long-time player), I've been stacking my stamina and rentals to coincide. I don't eat for days, and when I hit "very weak and malnourished", I go and fill up on Mutant Steaks (over 260% on full!), grab the tools, and work until I tire. I then don't work on the house for many ingame days until I hit that hunger again. If the tools didn't work on this sort of rental scheme, I wouldn't form this play habit.
Then mate, you may want to try Robot again. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
(I sure as Hell was.)
Personally, I like to lie to myself and tell myself that it's roving bands of Thieving Midget Bastards raiding the lumber stacks at Dunbernarding. Actually, it would make a lot of sense, seeing as it's a right BASTARD thing to do...
Since I don't have an alt, clan, or RP buddies I simply have to do it the old fashioned way. Lug the stuff all over the map! Well, stones anyways since the jungle is only one square north of my floating castle. Still, this whole stealing bit is quite annoying and I would LOVE to see storage that we can shove enough logs or stone in to complete what we are working on. I plan on loads of sleep space for all the rookies (and anyone else who needs it) at NH to use as an extra edge at no extra charge, and that's going to take a load of work for me to get it there.
I'd be all over some kind of Item storage in dwellings. Ideally, it would be a safe of some kind that could house all sorts of building materials (and maybe other items!), lockable, and increasable in size. Wait, that sounds a lot like the current Dwelling system's rooms!
I don't want to go all radical on an already-great idea. I love dwellings, they're all I spend my game time on now. But aside from chatspaces and flavor, I want some functionality increase for all my hard labor. I know some say that the housing manager's menu is already a bit cluttered, but I'd like to provide the idea to add Side Projects!
Side Project Idea 1: Item storage.
This means nominating a room for item storage, like a walk-in vault. It can be locked or left open to the public as usual. People can't sleep there any more. Floor spaces are instead used to hold items of any size, limit one per space. If left open, this means anyone can take the items you left as well as leave their own. Allows for inter-player sharing, trading, borrowing, and potential stealing, but it also allows people to keep some handy items for the next DK. I really endorse this idea.
Side Project Idea 2: Actual Beds!
I'm tired of seeing that I'm sleeping on the floor when the description tells me I'm in a bedroom. I'd like to offer the idea of building/buying/questing for a bed. They're heavy as hell and really large, so large that they take up two floor spaces and can only fit one person once installed, BUT! They offer twice the morning stamina gain over sleeping on the floor. Spend enough time on increasing the size of your dwelling's rooms and you can fit a lot of happier travelers.
Side Project Idea 3: Vending Machines?
Maybe I shouldn't bring this up, as I wasn't here for S1 when these were implemented and were deemed game-imbalancing. I was thinking that a vending machine would also be a construct-able item (that requires some unique parts that could limit their propagation) that, when installed in a dwelling, would take up one floor space and hold one item. the item's price would be adjustable by the owner within certain limits.
Anyhow: as far as feedback goes, I'm loving Dwellings. I see a lot of potential in them, and I wish to see them grow to become even greater hubs of player actions and creativity.
Item storage: no, please no. Desperately imbalancing. I really shouldn't have to elaborate!
Okay, so true item storage is a bit of a touchy subject. Good to know.
I'd like to point out that not many people would be opposed to the Bed idea, though.
What you'd like to see, then, is a Storage Shed kind of feature.
Once your place has been upgraded from an Empty Plot (meaning there's an interior area) I feel it should have some construction material storage, like a work shed or a small garage.
That means that you can opt to drop your Stones and Logs in the main entryway, perhaps up to a reasonable limit. These supplies will then count as belonging to that dwelling. No one can take them out again, they can only be used for that Dwelling's construction projects. Furthermore, you won't have to pick them up in order to add them to the Dwelling.
That's what I'd like to see, at least. Personally, I'm fine with lugging around my goods and protecting them like a mother hen, but i know many people are having difficulty with theft. Maybe I'm not in such a high-crime area?
Barring all this supply nonsense, I'd really think it'd be cool to see Beds implemented.
It'd be nice to have some sort of speaker or something like the comms tent to send a message everywhere in one dwelling, wouldn't it?
Because things that affect all an area happen, and something needs to emit it.
With Dunbernarding being a colossus, we're getting a little lost.
Is theft really that much of a problem? So far I haven't had any trouble, my myself, cutting a few rocks at a time on CC404 and dropping them on the ground until I have enough to one-shot out. I think it works decently because as long as it only takes a few minutes, odds are a thief isn't going to stumble across it that quickly. Whereas if you leave your building materials out all night, you can probably assume they'll be gone in the morning.
Theft of materials is kind of annoying. As someone said--Sessine, I believe--there should be a way to know who took your stuff, at least some measure of risk for thieves (chainsaw wielding lumberjack berserkers is an amusing image, thank you, Paul).
Still, I accept it as part of the game. *shrugs* At least it will give me more opportunity to build up my stonecutting levels after someone stole 19 blocks from me in the two minutes I was away from the house.
I still say that toolkits should be available in other outposts. I think it would make sense for the land purchase office to be located in Improbable Central--that's a rather significant legal function, it would be plausible to have it in one spot. But I think that the toolkits should be made available elsewhere.
But, Gorbert! having the kits available everywhere would make building too easy. It's not supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be a challenge in logistics -- and the most efficient answer is different depending on where you're building, and what kind of travel buffs you have. Taking out the required daily stop in IC would simplify the process too much.
As for theft, it is beyond annoying, it's infuriating. All the same, I'm not in favor of any measure that would make it impossible. Risk is part of the game.
And I think there's a reason there is no chance of getting caught. I personally have had moments when I wanted to throttle whoever walked off with my stones or logs. It would be oh-so-satisfying to know who it was so I could... whoa! Could what?
Engage in Bad Drama, is what. We don't have a legal system on the Island. What would we get? A lot of contention. A shitstorm. It's not worth it. It's far better for the atmosphere of the game as a whole for people to be briefly furious at an unidentifiable someone, than at a specific, known, fellow player.
A valid point. But I still don't think theft should be risk free. There are plenty of possible pitfalls for thieves that could be implemented entirely by the game without involving the person who owns the supplies. For instance, the stack of logs could shift while you're trying to steal them and crush you beneath its weight, sending you straight to the Failboat. Or someone could see you and spread it around (metaphorically speaking, because no players would actually find out) that you're a thief and your Charm takes a blow equivalent to that caused by swimming in Skronky Juice. There are tons of options for punishing thieves without causing bad drama between people.
As for the toolkits, I don't think that having them more widely available would make it too easy. It would just make it easier. There's still the issue of massive stamina costs, the large amount of supplies needed to complete a single room, the ever present threat of theft, and the rather high cost of renting. I don't see why it's necessary for toolkits to be exclusive to IC.
Slight problem with an in-game punishment -- the game can't distinguish between thieves and friends cooperating in a work team. We don't want to discourage the latter!
(Note to self: Find where Sessine leaves stones or logs, and walk off with one, just because.)
Wait--Did I just say that out loud?
I don't know if it's been suggested already, but I have for a while been thinking that it would be nice if we could drop our materials within the dwelling they're meant for. I mean, some people are stealing because they're assholes, but some people might not realize that the materials on that map square are for the house next door, not their house? And that would be a much nicer way of sort of stockpiling goods and sharing the fun between friends without having to guard the map square like rabid wolverines.
Just a thought.
I totally agree with all of the above!
Uh, wait, not all of it of course, that would be a bit like being asked "tea or coffee?" and answering "Yes."
To sum it up: dwellings are awesome. Awesomeness itself could not be more awesome.
Keys: I'd love keys, maybe at least a very simple version of. If at all possible.
Storage. At first I say "Yay!". Then, after thinking a bit more I'm all against it. Regular item storage a no-no, for reasons better stated above. Construction material storage, I'd incline towards no, as well, for the risk of getting your materials stolen will make you plan ahead and make building more of a communal effort. I'm also against identifying/punishing thieves, either by the game or by the players. It's a jungle, people, materials get stolen sometimes even from organized building sites. For all your character knows, those 3 logs could have been removed by a monster or a mischievous Watcher. It happened to me, as well, it was unpleasant but hey, I work around it.
Construction work status? I was thinking, wouldn't it be nice to have some form of information on the state of your construction works? A distraction from the system, the same type you get for a transfer, to let you know a kind stranger did some work at your house while you were away? This way you could thank them and, also, you won't end up carrying a stone masonry kit all the way up to CC, only to find the work completed. Happened to me, ended up passing on the kindness and doing some work on my neighbor's houses, which, of course, wasn't a bad thing, only not very much in character for my character. But I, the player, hate waste so....
Connecting rooms: It would be fun to be able to connect rooms circularly, maybe even have some one-way connections, the sort you get for a secret passage that can be used from only one end. Example: Main room-regular door-library; Main room-regular door-guest bedroom; Library-secret passage-guest bedroom, you could only use the secret passage from the Library to the guest bedroom, not vice-versa. *sigh* That would be lovely.
Working kitchens, I don't know, really. A small stamina boost, a little better than cooking after a fight, I'd say is ok. More than that would be unbalancing, I guess.
Beds. All for it. And hammocks, and daybeds, and ornate four posters, nail beds, inflatable mattresses, haystacks, futons. Maybe a bit more restrictive than decorating a room, more in like a upgrading system. From floor to sleeping bag, from sleeping bag to mattress and so on, to the four poster king size waterbed with incorporated massage and light therapy functions. I'm ranting.
Well, what Sessine said in an earlier comment still holds true. It would be perfectly logical to see who's stealing from you if you're right there, but it could easily lead to bad drama, and we don't need more.
Hairy Mary is talkin' about just what I was thinking! Rooms without floor space and/or chatspace. That would be awesome.
And since we're talking about fireman poles and secret passages, it would also be pretty cool if we could rename the links from Room A to Room B. For example, you Enter the Secret Passage and end up in Geppetto's Sex Dungeon or whatever. Or you Slide Down the Fire Pole and end up in A Pool Full of Crocodiles. Renaming the links might be a little too fancy to be easily done, but that's just an idea there.
Poo on edit time limit! Renaming the links wouldn't actually be as fancy as all that, so I just wanted to babble at you all for a moment:
Renaming your floor spaces could work on the same principle. Upgrading names of links to rooms and floorspaces, perhaps, could cost you. As far as room links go, players would need to be able to write two link titles: the enter, and the return to. For example, enter would be Slide Down the Fire Pole, and return would be Shimmy Back Up There. Everything else, such as the locked text and the owner management options, could just refer to the actual room name: A Pool Full of Crocodiles. If you wanted to be super fancy, owners could also change the locked room text.
You'd pretty much just need to change the output from "Enter [roomname]" to "[linkname]". Same idea with the floorspaces, instead of outputting "Floor Space Available," output "[sleepspot] Available".
If I'm so clever, why aren't I coding this myself? Oh yeah. I'm lazy and don't have Dwelling source code.
/blah blah blah
Here's one possibly workable solution, though it depends on key implementation: Every land plot comes with moderately capacious storage shed in which building materials can be deposited. Perhaps the shed also must be built in order to appear. They cannot be truly locked, but a key to the shed lets you have access to its contents with impunity. It is still possible to drop logs/rock on a random spot on the map, but most folks will use their shed. Thieves know this... and, of course, The Watcher knows all.
Thus: Picking up materials on the map is still an option, and folks who enjoy maxing their skills can leave stuff around to be found by the lucky. Folks inclined to do some stealing from the material-rich sheds have to go to the dwelling and sneak into the shed by picking the lock, or via some loose board around the back, or somesuch. Whether there is an external readout of the shed contents ("Looking through the grimy window, you can see...") for both users and thieves is also an option.
Once the game is able to track shed break-ins, the manner of punishment can be addressed. Thieves always run the risk of being observed by other players and ostracized in-game (is this actually happening?) but there can be an actual gameplay consequence. My pick would be for a certain percentage chance that the Watcher erases your Failboat credit, since she sees what you are doing and (presumably?) disapproves. Habitual thieves will likely never accumulate enough credit to get a blessing, and basically have to succeed on the Failboat the old-fashioned way to get back to the island. Once a day.
This system seems to fit fairly well with dwellings as they now exist (the shed is basically an extension, independently lockable, from other rooms) although I don't know how tricky coding the storage abilities would be. I imagine it would be sort of like a very large dwelling-based backpack that only accepts logs and stones.
The wildcard is when and how keys turn out to work. Individual contestants who want to let anybody and everybody who stops by help out with their construction might find it untenable if they have to pay ciggies, for example, per key to be cut. I doubt clans would find it too much of a hurdle. (I suppose if locking the shed in the first place is optional, folks who would rather have open access can essentially use the same system as is now in place, only with less confusion about what materials were harvested for what dwelling on a map square.)
Other thoughts (sorry, once my mind gets spinning it keeps it up for a while):
-Instead of the Watcher penalty above, each instance of theft gives you a "guilty bastard" combat debuff? 5-10 more turns of guilt-ridden, moderately impaired thwacking for every break-in?
-Thievery medals! Bwahahahaha!
What I think I like best about the outlined system is that there is no more "accidental" theft. If you have to sneak in and pick a lock to get to the paydirt, you KNOW you've made the choice.
Well, there is a reason you don't run into Thieving Robot/Kittymorph/Joker/etc. Bastards out in the wilds. Some stereotypes have roots in truth, yes?
As for added Failboat prejudice, it wouldn't come into play if one avoided stealing.
Or do we want to discuss exempting midgets from this punishment, since they are (A) apparently already punished by default because The Watcher is prejudiced and (2) basically expected to be shameless larcenists?
Completely off topic, but i was wondering; Do stakes survive a DK? As in, while in the backpack? Backpack items tend to be blown to smithereens, but it ís a ciggie-bought item.
This is a bit less related to Dwellings than to the process of gathering materials, but... Would it be a terrible idea to have the default be for logs/stone to be dropped directly to the map? I understand that it may very slightly increases the risk of materials being stolen; but then again, who actually holds all that stuff in their backpack while gathering it? Perhaps I'm the odd one out, but I prefer the not-overload-my-backpack method of efficient stamina use, and the Cut Wood -> Show Inventory -> Drop Log -> World Map -> Repeat process gets a little tiring. I don't imagine any real lumberjack cutting down a tree and then pointlessly picking it up if he's just going to set it down and chop down another tree right after.
The only reason I can think of for keeping the current system is that it would keep someone from just sitting on the same square as a logger and picking up each log they cut down as they cut it down. Which seems to me a very improbable situation. Besides, if it becomes too much of a problem, it shouldn't be too hard to add a "Pick Up Log" option to the Cut Wood module page, right? Which would increase the time that the log is on the ground and vulnerable from 0 seconds (current system) to one or two seconds (which is very little time in terms of people randomly stealing things).
Any way at all to code it so that logs + stones don't become visible to others until the one who chopped/mined them says they should? Like if the person doesn't want them to be picked up by anyone else, then they just don't click the thing that says "Leave a note on the pile saying Take As You Wish" or something like that, and anyone walking by doesn't notice them(improbably). If the note has been left, then anyone can take the pile, and they appear as "There is a pile of X logs here, with a note on them saying Take As You Wish."
People can still steal them, but not unless the person is working with someone else and left the note so they could take them.
The best solution I can think of would be to have a timer on the items. Make them only appear to the person who dropped for a certain period of time. Maybe an hour, or until your tool box gets returned. That would prevent people from stealing the logs you're planning on using immediately.
I'd like to see some storage or some way around this.
Mainly because, for the first time, some thieving little git has nicked a load of logs from my plot, while I was away on a new day, picking up a kit to nail 'em into place.
If I catch up with them, I'll... write them a strongly worded letter.
Sink, I've had that happen to me seven or eight times, now. I must have lost at least a hundred, maybe two hundred, logs or stones. My initial reaction each time has been murderous, coupled with a strong, "Damn it, this is intolerable! There's got to be some way to stop it!" Particularly aggravating if I hadn't even left the square, just put a huge load down in order to pick up a few at a time and apply them.
But... a funny thing happened. I'd grit my teeth, go get more stone or wood -- whatever was stolen -- and run through however many more new-day cycles were needed to make up the stamina loss. As the completion bar turned green, anger would fade to muttering.
And... oddly enough, as soon as the project was complete, somehow the theft turned into an obstacle that I overcame. Now it actually increases my sense of pride when I look at the finished job.
So. If storage is added, later... I think those of us who have done a lot of building under these conditions, tensely looking over our shoulders for thieves with every log or stone, are going to be telling newcomers, "Man, you should have been here in the old days. We had to haul the stone for building on our knees. In the snow. Uphill. Both ways!"
That's mainly what I'm doing, Sessine. It's irritating, but there's a block of trees just two squares away, so hell, I'll just cut myself some more. That said, the Improbability-infused soil must be great for growing stuff. I'm sure I must have completely deforested one hectare of best building-grade Scots Pine by now.
Here's a moral dilemma for you all though. I've just noticed, on a walkabout, there is a pile of logs just one square away from my plot, with exactly the number I had stockpiled. There's no stake on the land visible.
a) take them, assuming someone's just been playing silly buggers and moved my stockpile? Or;
b) leave them alone, assuming I might be getting neighbours some time?
Answers on a postcard to The Swamp, please.
On a different note, I love this. As Gorbert said, a great sense of satisfaction, even in just finishing one room. There's only a couple of us working on The Swamp, so it's hard work, but even to just complete that first room, attain Shack status, and sit basking in the daylight streaming through the badly-nailed-up clapboard, cup of tea in hand, is fantastic
Huge thanks Joe and the mods who've worked on this. You've made a werewolf very happy.
I'd sure like to take some of the credit for Dwellings, because they're great -- but I can't. They're all CavemanJoe's imagination and hard work.
I am so impressed by the outpouring of creativity they've elicited, too. It's an education to wander the Island, now, peeking behind unlocked doors to see what might have changed since the last time you were there. The World Map has an entirely different feel to it -- it's populated. It's a real landscape. There are marvels to be discovered!
Umn... Excuse me? I've had an idea.
Okay, accepting what Sessine says (and bless him, that hair shirt looks good on him) but...
It is a problem for many.
So - what is the answer? Well, telling players just who is doing the naughties isn't going to work, Sessine (in hair shirt) is right - it will lead to sadness and drama - so - the answer is to penalize those who want to participate in something that goes against the Island's ideals.
In most other aspects of Island life, those who don't sign up to the agreed moral conventions of the Island are punished/ ostracised/ removed - why not make it so for people who steal?
How? I'm not sure - I'm no coder (is that the term?) but - can people picking up ALL logs or stones on an Island square be queried in some way? Remove the PICK UP ALL function. Make it more of a chore for people?
I'm not suggesting this is the answer - but surely penalising people who do want to go against all of the agreed and workable conventions find that karma comes back and bites them on the arse.
Like a rabid beagle.
Pretty much what I did, Mary. I left them for a fair while and then took them back.
< looks to whatever deity werewolves aspire to be reunited with >
If those were someone else's, please forgive me.
< makes himself a brew and wanders off, deity suitably appeased >
Oh god Again...
What's worse than someone stealing ALL of the stone for your new room?
Someone stealing just one...
< pads off towards CC404 to replace that last one...>
One consequence of dwellings is how it affects Squathole. Every other outpost has dwellings on the same map square, usually including a guesthouse of some sort*. I haven't been to Acehigh, but certainly everywhere else does. Now Squathole doesn't, you need to go two squares away to find somewhere that you can build. This makes Squathole a rather less attractive place to stay**. For the game player who want's to stay there, there's three options.
1) Forego the 5% stamina bonus at the start of the day.
2) Begin and end each day wading through two squares of muck.
3) Give up and go elsewhere.
This means that you can't use the last of your stamina reinforcing the Squathole walls and still get your bonus. And it means that people who are trying to heroically defend Squathole are at a disadvantage compared to defenders of other outposts.
I haven't seen any serious effects in terms of outpost defence levels say, but I can't help wondering. I'm not complaining or saying that anything should be changed, just noting it as a possible effect.
Can I ask, is anyone changing their gameplay strategies because of this, or am I just barking up the wrong tree here?
*Well done the people who are building these, I feel that they really contribute to the friendly welcoming spirit of the Island, which is one of it's strong features.
**In game play terms, obviously. There's very little that could make Squathole less attractive as, say, a tourist destination.
I don't understand the question..
But, yeah, the inability to build on swamptiles surprised me as well, seeing as how we have an outpost there with some pretty sturdy buildings. ( if the midgets dont destroy it, its class-a construction, little avatars of entropy as they are.)
I really wanted to build a house-on-stilts along the beach of the lake, but alas..
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