Subject: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 18 2010 @ 05:26 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

The houses are in, I learned about half an hour ago! (I do not keep up with the Enquirer, so I am badly behind the times.) So, since the Dwellings thread is like 10 pages long, this will be a convenient new thread to express your opinions on the new feature.

To start off, I was dismayed that there are only four plots available at any location on the map. The towns will fill up immediately, which is no big deal, there's still the area right around the towns. But with as many people play this game, it probably won't take long for those to start filling up, either. And for someone with only 18 cigs at the moment, getting the 100 necessary to buy a plot might take a distressingly long time. It just doesn't seem fair to limit the most easily accessible plots to people who had 100 cigs on hand at the right moment.

(Sorry to start this off in a negative way. I understand that Dan's put a lot of hard work into this, and I'm not ripping his throat out about this, just expressing my view on the matter. Something to maybe consider.)



Replies:

Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 18 2010 @ 12:46 PM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

I couldn't appreciate the limit more, actually. There is no need to stuff these squares like slums. Four is enough, and if you need the cigarettes for it, spend some DP.

Hell, I spent some DP to get all four plots on one square, just to own it (It is a brilliant investment.)

Also, Dan. Thank you kindly.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 05:44 AM
By: Mack

Content:

I agree wholeheartedly with you on that Zolotisty, but I actually didn't do it all myself. I did the wood myself, and my friend handled the stone herself. (That's a heck of a feat to take the stone from 404 all the way to the beach SE of Kit.) I just found it a little tough to find willing volunteers to help build my house while they worked on their own. I have no complaints with the system, I was just stating what it took me to complete my meager beach house.

Edit: I do remember one small thing that bothered me, whenever I want to change the description of a room, say if I added a small present such as a painting or a plant into it, I have to redecorate for the same number of times that I already have, and then more for the text you just added. I don't think it would require you to tear down all the wallpaper and replace the flooring just to put a plant in a corner, or an end table beside a couch. But that's just my silly opinion.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 04:32 AM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

First of all DWELLINGS!! YIPPEE!! Dan I love you and I want to have your babies.

Second. I'm with KK on the above debate. Whatever his thoughts on dwellings and donators, he's playing with the system as is. Anyway, as I recall, he only said that Dwellings shouldn't be off limits to non donators. Not that donators shouldn't have any advantages. The ability to buy cigs and req has always been with us, and hasn't caused any problems that I've noticed. This is just an extension of that.

Having said that...if too many people start using DP to buy entire squares, then there may be a bit of a problem, there's only so many squares to go round, but at the moment I don't see that it's a problem at all.

Third. Is there anyway two or more people could pool cigs to help buy a stake?


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 18 2010 @ 11:45 PM
By: Bernard

Content:

I'm utterly in awe, and I haven't even got a sideboard. A one room shack is giving me a frisson, and I love it.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 12:47 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

Begging your pardon, KK, but not everyone can afford to spend money on the game and earn enough DPs to do that. You yourself once made such a point about houses.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 03:38 AM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

Which this has absolutely nothing to do with, whatsoever.

I was pointing out that I used the limit to my advantage by simply buying all of the stakes with some DP.

I never said that someone else ought to do the same thing. I am not suggesting that you...

Wait, what the Hell are you implying that I suggested?

-Also. You honestly didn't think to be saving cigarettes when "The end of the week is neigh" was announced?


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 04:23 AM
By: Mack

Content:

I have to say, the amount of effort it requires to have even so much as a one room house with a decent description for each part is both a good and bad thing. It took me about 15 ciggies and just as many chrono's to finish everything in my one room house. This is a good thing in a way, because it raises the difficulty of someone having a 10 room house with 2 paragraph descriptions. But it is also a bad thing, in that the average user, who has few DP will have a very rough time getting that far.

That aside, I like the new system. Though I hope there are more things to come in the future, as a chat space alone is a little dull, whereas a chat space with training or bonus facilities is a little more exciting. One thing that would be nice to have though is an option to give certain players the key to your house. Meaning that if you locked a room(s) specific people would still be able to access them, and use the sleeping space/bonus facilities found therein. I imagine this is all already planned at some point, but I just thought I'd add my two cents.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 04:59 AM
By: Beeker

Content:

The collaborative nature of the building is, in my opinion, one of the more exciting features of this system. I'm really liking it!

So, I'd be in favor of Hairy Mary's idea of a way for people to pool resources to set up a stake. That would make it even more collaborative, and would also mean that there wouldn't be as much of a land rush, because lots of people would have shared houses.

Also, I'm looking forward to when the key system will become more flexible and we'll be able to give out multiple keys to a house, which will again make it easier to have collective projects.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 05:15 AM
By: Zolotisty

Content:

Much the same way that Improbable Labs is closed to players with fewer than 10 DKs, some things come with seniority and time on the Island. It takes time in the Jungle to gather the money to buy a ring to marry another player or to play with any of the fancy equipment in Sheila's. It takes time in the Jungle to collect the cigarettes to upgrade your backpack, or max your clan buffs, or to purchase a land claims stake.

These aren't things that should be easy to do. In fact, the entire point is that they aren't easy. Neat things with a high entry level provide incentive for players to work toward a goal and spend more time on the Island. More time on the Island means you're likelier to make friends, tell people about the game, or donate to the site. We likes these things.

Dwellings are designed as collaborative. Mack, you say that it took you a lot of hauling around and a lot of chronospheres? Yuh! That'll happen, if you're doing it all on your own. Tossing a house together on your own sweet lonesome is always going to be harder than pulling four or five friends together for a barn-raising; the point is for people to find those four or five friends so that a building goes up in two hours or less, instead of two IRL days.

People keep angling for tool kits somewhere other than IC; people keep angling for cheaper stakes. People are privately mumbling about high stamina costs. People are certainly paranoid about squares going away and oh my goodness there are six hundred and fifty four buildable squares on the map (or thereabouts, anyway), and each one holds four potential dwellings, so that 2616 buildings that can ever be built on Improbable Island and perhaps a hundred have already been nabbed in the first day.

2616! Why, we have almost that many players! And almost 1800 of them logged in in the last week. I- isn't that a problem? Everything is going away, aaah!

Well, nawh. :/

Everyone who wants a Dwelling will have one. If we suddenly run out of space, if someone literally lays claim to the very last spot on the entire Island ever, there will be a zoning adjustment. And besides -- the world map is going to undergo radical change in S3. We will never run out of spaces for people to build in S3.

As it is, construction is supposed to be a pain in the ass. Don't be disappointed by that; don't be lazy and try to nose around for longer rental times on the kits or kits situated in an Outpost that's more convenient for you, personally. You are supposed to feel as though you worked for it and earned it, from collecting your cigarettes for the stake to "jesus christ why am I schlepping like two hundred kilos of stone down to NewHome." It is not supposed to be something you can whack together in an afternoon, and because it's something that more senior players are most likely to be interested in, it doesn't have to be rook-friendly.

The folks who are gobbling up spaces right now have earned 'em. Awesome things always require a bit of elbow grease. Stakes should be singleton ventures. You earn that part yourself, or you buy it with DPs; then you tug your friends in with construction.

It's worth it. They are awesome, it is worth it. Just gotta put in the time.

Wink


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 12:50 PM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

\
Second. I'm with KK on the above debate. Whatever his thoughts on dwellings and donators, he's playing with the system as is. Anyway, as I recall, he only said that Dwellings shouldn't be off limits to non donators. Not that donators shouldn't have any advantages. The ability to buy cigs and req has always been with us, and hasn't caused any problems that I've noticed. This is just an extension of that.



See? Thank you very much Hairy.

Least someone was listening...


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 06:38 PM
By: Bakemaster

Content:

On the subject of keys and locked rooms:

I don't know what the current functionality is exactly, but it occurs to me to request that a person carrying a key be able to enter and exit rooms *without* automatically changing their locked/unlocked status. That way, if the owner decides to make an "office" room private by locking it, but gives a key to another user (business partner, let's say), neither has to worry about re-locking the room every time they enter and leave.

On the subject of cooperation and claiming a stake:

I am not much of a role-player, here on the Island, but I definitely am into community interaction. It's somewhat exciting for me to think of having my own house, but what I would find far more attractive would be the ability to build my clan hall somewhere on the map. Right now, with stakes as purely singleton ventures, the process can be shared, and once a house is built, access can be shared, but ownership can't be shared, and only individuals may claim ownership.

I would be very excited about the opportunity for my clan to claim a stake, owned not by myself or any fellow clan member, but by the clan itself. I would love being able to set a preference that forces interested players to locate our secret headquarters in order to apply for membership. And imagining stumbling upon the headquarters of another clan while traveling gives me a little thrill of excitement. I would love to have my clan's description come from visiting its actual location, and write the public description in the general Clan Halls differently—perhaps I would need to give the receptionist a death stick or a small bribe in order to be able to place my garish advertisement on the lobby wall. Or maybe things would work differently—in any case, there are a million ways that a clan's presence could be managed which would be far more interesting than the current "click the list, see all the clans" setup. I can feel that I'm getting into territory that's both tangential and more appropriate for additions to a future season than changes to the current season, but I'm just riding this train of thought wherever it goes, while it lasts...

Anyhoo, it seems reasonable that a clan hall would require a greater effort than an individual dwelling. Perhaps it takes up two of the four available plots. Perhaps it takes one, but costs more (commercial permit, and all). Perhaps the claim is handled in the same way, and can be made by any Leader or Founder, but only one can be in existence for a given clan. Perhaps it can be demolished, the claim sold, and moved to another location... perhaps not. Most likely it would require a far greater volume of materials than an individual house, and perhaps it would have some additional requirement. Or perhaps it will simply be functionally identical to other dwellings, with the only difference being that it ownership is registered with the clan rather than with an individual, and the rest could be worked out purely with whatever resources the player already has at their disposal. Whatever the cost, I would be willing to pay—even DP, provided we retain the ability to obtain DP in some way that does not involve real currency (monster hut, monster rating, referral link, and so on).

I would get so much more enjoyment out of building a clan hall that I'm reconsidering even buying myself a house at this point. 100 cigarettes is a good chunk of a buff payment, and my clan is my priority. Building myself a house does relatively little that I can see for my clan.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 06:54 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

I hope that when (fingers crossed!) clan ownership of buildings becomes possible, there will be a mechanism to transfer ownership of an existing building to a clan -- because some clans are going ahead and making their clan halls anyway with what we have now.

I also hope that there will be a way to create access to and from the clan hall, in a building owned by the clan.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 07:10 PM
By: Bakemaster

Content:

That last bit sounds like effortless teleportation from any village on the map to and from the clan hall... which I would find to be a bit much, personally. Unless you meant it differently.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 07:21 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

I think Sessine meant replicating the functionality of the clan hall. Which, along with everything mentioned about clans already, is feasible with the new Dwellings system.

(in Season Three, all weapons and armour will be IItems, all possible actions will be Stamina actions, and all buildings (including shops etc) will be based on Dwellings)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 09:59 PM
By: Gorbert

Content:

My initial problem, the only thing I've had issue with, is the limited number of plots per land. Yeah, there are rather a lot of spaces available. But I don't really want to walk several squares away from a outpost through jungle. 2616 squares? Yeah, that's a lot of building space. Most of it isn't very close to outposts, and I want my house to be easily accessible. I have no problem with the cost, stamina or cig, because the costs were outlandish in S1, too. It was something to work for. This, I understand and appreciate.

Having spoken civilly and plainly, it's pretty aggravating to me that I was greeted with antagonism.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 10:12 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

What I meant was (simple version) entering clan hall from a clan-owned building, and exiting clan hall back to the square you entered from rather than to an outpost. No teleportation involved.

OR (more exciting, but should be expensive), being able to enter a clan-owned building from the clan hall, role-play there, move about the rooms, and then leave -- to find yourself back in clan hall, rather than on the world map.

The basic rule for clan hall would still be, you go back out to wherever you entered from.

I also really hope ownership transfers are eventually going to be available between players, as well as from players to a clan.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 10:45 PM
By: Zpatula

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

...in Season Three... all possible actions will be Stamina actions...



Say it ain't so! I've tried to play games where everything you did cost some form of 'stamina' and the result was always really frustrating. Do I send a PM or move a square with my remaining stamina? Bah! Don't do it!


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 19 2010 @ 10:52 PM
By: Bakemaster

Content:

I'm guessing that communication isn't included in "actions". But that's an assumption. I hope we won't be spending any significant amount of stamina to do things like browse through Shelia's for new stuff at the beginning of a DK... And personally, I'd wince at the thought of having to expend stamina to purchase or sell an item, as that's a cost that I'd have to pay several hundreds of times in the course of a healthy trade run! Though it would probably be only fair.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 12:09 AM
By: Rosin

Content:

Personally, I do like the idea of pulling together a few friends to build a house, though I think (given that I personally have done this IRL, though it was a b****) it should be more'n possible for five friends to knock together the general frame and foundation of a six room house (or foundation and frame of a three room house, what with having to use actual stone instead of concrete) within a single morning. High weight and stamina cost I definitely do understand (since after preforming said feat of skill and labor I slept for thirteen hours), but this brings up another far off longing of mine:

Where oh where did my BullDozer go?

I did so adore that massive GEBoB, with his big shaggy coat and his wide grille of a mouth. I think they could be a drastic return here, for a variety of reasons. (Helping you carry loads of stone from the mountains, for instance. Or maybe just carrying around that toolbox while you carry 250kg of rock yourself.) I think this new Dwellings system opens up wonderful opportunities for this old mount of S1 and prior.


Anyway, more feedback on dwellings! Awesome. I like the idea of having dwellings on the map, but I do somewhat miss the city-based dwellings as well, tough these would be MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE to keep around staminawise what with the constant outpost invasions and repairs, unless of course your Hired Goons (AKA former PvP guards) to keep your house relatively protected. Those, of course, would cost extra cigs, but just maybe they'd be worth it.

Mapsquaresmapsquaresmapsquares. I do enjoy the idea of a limit, yes I do. No point in having 30 houses in one square kilometer. But really? Look around you. Chances are, there are at least 6 houses within a klick's walk away from you. Probably more. DEFINITELY more if you live in a city or those dastardly suburbs. But what I'm really going for with this little part is, terrain! Logically, you'd have far less houses in a square kilometer of swamp than plains, with jungle halfway in between. Perhaps in S3 terrain type will have an effect on the amount of house plots per square?

Preemptive question answer regarding first paragraph, I've dabbled in professional construction, and those 5 friends were professional contractors. Still a b**** to pull off, though. Maybe a two room house then, given the supposed average level of skill of abducted contestants.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 01:19 AM
By: Chimental

Content:

Quote by: Rosin

Where oh where did my BullDozer go?

I did so adore that massive GEBoB, with his big shaggy coat and his wide grille of a mouth. I think they could be a drastic return here, for a variety of reasons. (Helping you carry loads of stone from the mountains, for instance. Or maybe just carrying around that toolbox while you carry 250kg of rock yourself.) I think this new Dwellings system opens up wonderful opportunities for this old mount of S1 and prior.


You make an excellent point there, Rosin. Adding the Bulldozer back to S2 would be a great addition to the Dwelling system.

And I'm not just saying that because I love that cyborg bull

Okay, that's a lie.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 01:26 AM
By: Zolotisty

Content:

Quote by: Bakemaster

I'm guessing that communication isn't included in "actions". But that's an assumption. I hope we won't be spending any significant amount of stamina to do things like browse through Shelia's for new stuff at the beginning of a DK... And personally, I'd wince at the thought of having to expend stamina to purchase or sell an item, as that's a cost that I'd have to pay several hundreds of times in the course of a healthy trade run! Though it would probably be only fair.



That's correct -- Stamina Actions for sensible, character-customizable things only, dudes and ladies. Wink Not trivial penalties to navigate Outposts or communicate with other players.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 01:49 AM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

Quote by: Gorbert

My initial problem, the only thing I've had issue with, is the limited number of plots per land. Yeah, there are rather a lot of spaces available. But I don't really want to walk several squares away from a outpost through jungle. 2616 squares? Yeah, that's a lot of building space. Most of it isn't very close to outposts, and I want my house to be easily accessible. I have no problem with the cost, stamina or cig, because the costs were outlandish in S1, too. It was something to work for. This, I understand and appreciate.

Having spoken civilly and plainly, it's pretty aggravating to me that I was greeted with antagonism.



Then you should have saved some cigarettes when it was announced that dwellings were on the horizon.

Or pawn some jewelry. Something like that. You can't blame the system for the fact that you lacked the foresight to plan ahead and maybe save up?

Like I've been bloody doing for about 800 in game days?

Don't complain about distance either. If you wanted it close to an outpost, then try reading above.

And if you're late? Well, Tough luck.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 03:44 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

Once again. Just expressing my opinion. Not complaining, not angry. So I am a little incensed and confused about this hostility of yours, KK. I think it's perfectly reasonable for me to offer my opinion about this development without sneering remarks being directed my way.

Anyway. I think it would be perfectly reasonable that some squares have more plots than others. An outpost, for god's sake, is essentially a town. Towns have clusters of houses within them. Plains are pretty wide open and spacious, so a little more than four houses per plot would make sense. Hard to build a house in the middle of a lake, though. So maybe one plot (because this is Improbable Island--someone would try their damnedest to do this).


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 04:20 AM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

No, You were originally complaining about the rather steep price of a stake and the whole, "I'm worried about not getting a close spot."

I'm 'Incensed' because I saved up for a Hell of a long time. You could have as well, and this whole problem wouldn't be there, ay?


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 04:49 AM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

If you two are gonna argue, don't do it all over my hard drive.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 04:59 AM
By: Bakemaster

Content:

I've got this image in my head now of two tiny people with comically high-pitched voices spinning 'round and 'round on a platter with their hands around each other's throats.

So THAT'S what makes the grinding noise when a HDD goes tits-up!


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 05:05 AM
By: Mister+Rawr

Content:

So THAT'S what makes the grinding noise when a HDD goes tits-up!


They must ship as part of OEM hardware with all new HPs. I always wanted my very own miniature contestants!


*Berates self for tangenting on a high-use thread*

Bad me.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 05:41 AM
By: Jon+Bishop

Content:

Ah, well. I guess I'll put my request here, then.

A thought about dropping wood and stone on the map: sometimes it can be a bit frustrating when you leave wood at your dwelling, only for someone else to steal it away and take it elsewhere.

Maybe have a "drop off" area at each dwelling? I could imagine it working somewhat similarly to the reck and cig storage that dwellings had in the first season. Everyone would be free to add supplies to that dwelling's storage, and are free to use the supplies in the storage to help build the dwelling. Now, if the owner of the dwelling wants to share their supplies, they could choose and option to share all supplies in their storage. If not, they could choose an option to disallow for people to take supplies in the storage. Of course, wood and stone could still be dropped on the map.

I'm not sure if that's somewhat of a greedy suggestion, as the fact that anyone can swipe your supplies away is all part of the risk of deciding to drop them off unguarded.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 05:43 AM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

If you two are gonna argue, don't do it all over my hard drive.



Right, sorry Dan.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 05:57 AM
By: deema

Content:

Quote by: Jon+Bishop


A thought about dropping wood and stone on the map: sometimes it can be a bit frustrating when you leave wood at your dwelling, only for someone else to steal it away and take it elsewhere.

Maybe have a "drop off" area at each dwelling?


I second that. It's getting tiring to talk a clan member to stand on the plot holding 20+ logs and stones while I run to IC and back every day, slowly building up the place. I'd love to be able to store my materials at the house and to allow them to be used only to build the said house.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 05:59 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

If you two are gonna argue, don't do it all over my hard drive.



Sorry, Dan. That wasn't my intention.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 07:26 AM
By: Rosin

Content:

Both KK and Gorbert bring up good points.

Lakehouses!
Why not? Many cultures have some sort of stilt-house, and raft houses are not out of the question. Of course, stone would be iffy, but maybe you could harvest some nice floaty peat from the bogs around Squathole perhaps? Maybe you could just build the entire thing out of lots (and lots and lots and lots) of wood. Or maybe find some stone that floats, whatever, it is Improbable Island.

Prices and saving!
If I had known they were so close (or checked at all) I would've definitely saved up quite a bit, though I don't regret giving those ciggies to my clan no I don't. As for the high prices right now, I mentioned before how I definitely understand the stamina used to knock together a house, and if dwellings are even half as awesome as I think they'll be, then I have no doubt that it is well worth the cost in ciggies. (Used to be a mansion cost what? 110 cigs or summat? I'd venture to say that a one room shack now will be as awesome as those mansions used to be.)

Space.
Yes. There should be more spaces or less spaces due to terrain type, and as I said for suburbs or actually in cities there should be space aplenty (Especially around IC. By god, that entire plain will be covered in houses. It'll be a REAL SIZE CITY, GOODNESS.)

Ideal housing areas.
Yes, the 'good spots' right next to or over towns will fill up relatively quick with the 4 square unit. This means that we'll have the dreaded suburban sprawl somewhere, but that'd probably happen anyway right? Either avoiding that or joining it would be most peoples' decisions for housing, closer to towns the better for some. I, however, plan to build Rosin's house according to her personality. (That would normally mean a Nostalgic Building right atop IC, but more realistically, now that it's taken up, somewhere on a promontory in the jungle where she can see the city.) Likewise, I'd fully expected both Zolotisty and Sessine to immediately lay claim to the land surrounding AceHigh. (Fond memories of the Fastness' appearance, and tales of Tumbledown, come to mind.) And I'd expect that most of the more serious roleplayers will take this into closer consideration if they read this:

Where oh where would your character build? Oh where oh where would they beeeee? Oops. Sorry, singing.

By this, I mean, where is a significant place for your character? The riverside where she had her first kiss? The site of his first kill of the Tattoo Mutant? Does he value his environmental conditions over her route to town? Does she like the idea of a massive fortress stronghold deep in an impenetrable part of the jungle? Does it want to find an area where its brood can hunt and frolic and hunt more and joke around and cover entire trees with birds that have shifty eyes? (I'm looking at you, Chimental. One of you, anyhow.) Do your character and their spouse want a beach house? A mountainside retreat? Some place at the edge of the swamp so they can row out into the lake and just enjoy a nice day out on the water? Lots of stuff to consider before you just run out and go "MINE!"



Also, directly to KK, I fully expect the plot that you bought for yourself to be turned into a fully impregnable Victoria compound. The island would feel empty without one. Wink


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 08:51 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

I think it would be good to standardize Suzie's Tool Rental, if not land registry. Put a hardware store (rental) in every town, like Mike's Chop Shop. So if you're working on a project in AceHigh, you don't have to make the tedious (and stamina-consuming) trek to IC to renew your rentals.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 09:07 AM
By: Rosin

Content:

As Gorbert says, would make sense for tool distribution to be.. Distributed.

I'd like to think that carpentry tools would be easy to find in forrested areas such as AceHigh and Kittania, and the Robots definitely have some mining equipment up there, so why shouldn't they lend them for ciggs? The Midgets could probably even steal decorating kits, and Mutants would carry 'em standard. (Spruce up that house, but remember to cover that mirror with paint. There you are, a perfectly painted wall and nicely arranged pictureframes. No, there's not anything in them, what would the point be in that?)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 09:24 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Observation: If everyone rushes to spend stamina on building, no-one is fighting the monsters, and outposts get overrun. Breached outposts cause big problems for builders.

It will be interesting to see how this one settles out.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 09:37 AM
By: theGhostWolfe

Content:

I, for one, support the idea of making toolkits available in other cities. It doesn't have to be all of them, but I think that it would encourage players to build in the more out-of-the-way areas of the map, if the distance from IC wasn't such a major factor.

I'm thinking about this not so much from the difficulty or "fairness" aspect from the player's POV, but rather the encouragement enjoyable gaming.

/TGW


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 01:14 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

One consequence which I certainly hadn't foreseen. Lots of people have been piling up to CC404 with one-shots to harvest stone, piling straight out of the city gates and getting stuck in to the first piece of rock that they clap eyes on. The area directly out of the gates has now turned into an impromptu quarry with absolutely no regulations whatsoever.
Those health and safety executives are all having heart attacks! Wahay!! Mr. Green

In the rather longer term however, I have visions of so much rock being quarried, that in three or four months time there's just going to be a ruddy great hole there with one spike of rock sticking up with CC404 precariously balanced on top of it. Confused All it's going to take is for one rather unwise Midget to try taking a block out of the spike, and the results will be... interesting. He'll certainly have a hell of a headache in the morning.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 04:20 PM
By: Beeker

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Observation: If everyone rushes to spend stamina on building, no-one is fighting the monsters, and outposts get overrun. Breached outposts cause big problems for builders.

It will be interesting to see how this one settles out.



Onslaught can go hang. I've given up on it.

I don't try to save outposts that are breached, I don't try to keep them from being breached, nothing. Totally gave up. I had to: to be able to continue to enjoy the game, I made the decision that I have to ignore Onslaught completely. Which, by the way, is out of character for Beeker and so wasn't an easy decision for me. But, it was either that or stop playing.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 08:03 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

I could give my experience of Onslaught, but that's a whole other topic, and I don't want to derail this thread. Is it time to open up discussion on this somewhere else?

Back on topic. Does anyone know, is it possible to build rooms in circles (so room A has a door going to room B, room B has a door going to room C and room C has a door going back to room A again?) If so, how do the locks work? You can stop people going from older rooms to newer rooms?


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 08:06 PM
By: Zpatula

Content:

Quote by: Rosin

As Gorbert says, would make sense for tool distribution to be.. Distributed.



How about a traveling hardware vendor -- a trade wagon that has a regular circuit around the outposts? Spending a few days in each outpost before moving on.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 10:20 PM
By: Azhron

Content:

Quote by: Beeker

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Observation: If everyone rushes to spend stamina on building, no-one is fighting the monsters, and outposts get overrun. Breached outposts cause big problems for builders.

It will be interesting to see how this one settles out.



Onslaught can go hang. I've given up on it.

I don't try to save outposts that are breached, I don't try to keep them from being breached, nothing. Totally gave up. I had to: to be able to continue to enjoy the game, I made the decision that I have to ignore Onslaught completely. Which, by the way, is out of character for Beeker and so wasn't an easy decision for me. But, it was either that or stop playing.



Annoying though reinforcement and defence may be, isn't it still less frustrating than the alternative? Already, CC404 and Acehigh have fallen, and IC is headed that way. I don't like it either, but I'm sure it won't kill anyone to spend one or two days here and there on outposts.(not permanently, anyway)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 20 2010 @ 10:58 PM
By: Beeker

Content:

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

I could give my experience of Onslaught, but that's a whole other topic, and I don't want to derail this thread. Is it time to open up discussion on this somewhere else?



You are right. My apologies. I should not have risen to the bait. I've already said what I thought about Onslaught elsewhere.

Back on topic, as you say: I know there are more features on the way with the dwellings, so I'm looking forward to those! The existing features I'm quite happy about so far.

Things that are in the works that I'll be happy to see rolled out:

Ability to control access (give out keys to whomever one chooses).
Furniture and other decorations (this sounds exciting!)

Things that people have suggested that I'd be happy to see:

Ability to group together to buy a land stake.
Ability to control which rooms are accessible from which others.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 21 2010 @ 02:17 PM
By: Ada

Content:

Mmm. About the limit-per-square thing: does it not make sense to open up more squares on the Outpost spaces? I'm all for limiting the number of houses elsewhere (even four sounds like a lot to me, honestly), but I think that there should be a much higher limit on the outposts. They're actual towns, after all! Improbable Central has never looked busy enough to me. Why not more houses?


Alllllso. I love the group-to-buy-a-stake idea. I'd also really appreciate the ability to share ownership after the dwelling has been built or staked or whatever.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 21 2010 @ 04:29 PM
By: monsterzero

Content:

Quote by: Jon+Bishop

A thought about dropping wood and stone on the map: sometimes it can be a bit frustrating when you leave wood at your dwelling, only for someone else to steal it away and take it elsewhere...
...I'm not sure if that's somewhat of a greedy suggestion, as the fact that anyone can swipe your supplies away is all part of the risk of deciding to drop them off unguarded.

Yeah, I lost quite a pile this morning. GRRRR. You know who you are.

But it is consistent with the game universe (and the real one, wherein on-site stacks of construction supplies get looted all the time).


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 21 2010 @ 05:47 PM
By: Skidge

Content:

Well, easy enough to find out who's been swiping. Merely go and see who's got more than one site that's been completed but has low stats on buil...ding........

**looks at her own stats**

**eyes her own two dwellings**

Eek! Oops! Never-mind. They might just know some top-of-the-line great wonderful awesome people and not be stealing at ALL.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 21 2010 @ 06:22 PM
By: Skidge

Content:

OH ALSO!

As queen (okay, maybe not queen, maybe duchess or baroness or whatever,) of wordy descriptions that go on and on for a year and a day and a half until the end of time when robot cockroaches rule the world, may I humbly request a status bar to indicate how far one is along with decoration of a given thing? I'm slowly but surely reaching 200+ decoration turn descriptions, and I know I'm not the only one **eyes KK**.

(Ooh! Baroness of Babbling! Duchess of Description! Countess of Chattering! Marquess of My God She Never Shuts Up!)

Yes, that's right, KK, I sneak into your house(s) at night and stare around at the decorations, eyes popping, murmuring, "how does he get the text to be bold like that? I just don't....how...but..." And then the dogs find me, and there's a whole heck of a lot of hilarious yelping and running and swinging on chandeliers and a whole hallway montage of me and them running into and out of various rooms, sometimes coming out of doors that we did not go into. It's great. You'd probably be woken up except YOUR DWELLING IS SO DAMN HUGE.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 21 2010 @ 07:39 PM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

I was wondering where all the jam went and why the kitchen had a bison in it.

It was a very rude awakening. The bison broke a window!

I didn't throw it out of the window. I threw it into the window. The window just happened to break.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 03:06 AM
By: ImNewHere

Content:

I found out the hard way you should not put your house all the way across the island from where the mountains are. I'm going to have fun hauling them 2 at a time all the way to New Home!


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 06:01 PM
By: Skidge

Content:

Quote by: ImNewHere

I found out the hard way you should not put your house all the way across the island from where the mountains are. I'm going to have fun hauling them 2 at a time all the way to New Home!



**kaff** Might one suggest buying a One-Shot, getting crowloads of stone outside of CC404, and zapping yourself on to NewHome? Mr. Green


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 06:57 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Still need to get all your mates to help carry it, else experience shows that it will all start disappearing into other folks dwellings all too soon


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 07:16 PM
By: Freya

Content:

One of the reasons dropping building supplies is such a problem isn't even "stealing" per se. It's as simple as neighbors getting confused as to what supplies belong to whom. It's bad enough when it's only 2 home owners building on the same square. Where it gets really messy is when each home owner has a gang of friends actively helping, or worse they have friends/clannies dropping off supplies and others building so no one can keep track of what belongs to whom.

Perhaps supplies could be made droppable inside the plot/dwelling? Something does need to be done because most of us do want to be good neighbors.

Similarly sleeping facilities. I'm very unhappy that the only way to control who sleeps in my house is to totally lock it off. I really want to allow friends and neighbors to use it - perhaps strangers who ask? Or post a message in the room? But finding your house filled with strangers so there's no room for your clanmates is awkward.

In general I think the social interactions related to dwellings need a careful 2nd look and adjustments.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 07:36 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Freya, I think that locks and being able to give out keys is on the way, which will go some way to addressing your second point.
As for the first, I think that that's a good idea, especially after you've got your first lockable room, you should be able to store stone and wood in it. Might mess up the decor somewhat though...


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 07:38 PM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

Quote by: Skidge

Quote by: ImNewHere

I found out the hard way you should not put your house all the way across the island from where the mountains are. I'm going to have fun hauling them 2 at a time all the way to New Home!



**kaff** Might one suggest buying a One-Shot, getting crowloads of stone outside of CC404, and zapping yourself on to NewHome? Mr. Green



The difficulty stems from not being able to One-Shot into CC404 due to that bug that when you jump into a breached outpost and get attacked then try to run away, you get sent back to wherever you can from. (And in some cases elsewhere. I ended up back at The Compound once.)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 07:51 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

OK, fixed that bug. I think.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 08:04 PM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

Really? Wonderful

It was a right whore running up to the edge of the mountains from Pleasantville...


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 08:19 PM
By: Mack

Content:

So, Mack recently awoke to find that the room he was sleeping in no longer exists!

I will assume this was a part of the error fixing with getting rid of the extra rooms that were added with the first completed houses, and I can accept that. It's just slightly frustrating to have put time into decorating a room to have it all disappear all of a sudden.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 22 2010 @ 08:42 PM
By: g_rock

Content:

Quote by: monsterzero

Quote by: Jon+Bishop

A thought about dropping wood and stone on the map: sometimes it can be a bit frustrating when you leave wood at your dwelling, only for someone else to steal it away and take it elsewhere...
...I'm not sure if that's somewhat of a greedy suggestion, as the fact that anyone can swipe your supplies away is all part of the risk of deciding to drop them off unguarded.

Yeah, I lost quite a pile this morning. GRRRR. You know who you are.

But it is consistent with the game universe (and the real one, wherein on-site stacks of construction supplies get looted all the time).



Might I suggest, as a new standard practice for the island, that when one drops supplies, they might mention it on the map space using 'Look around for other people', that would cut confusion as to who left what for whom, and allow random travellers to CHECK FIRST before picking up random supplies to make sure thay aren't stealing?

also anyone caught intentionally stealing suppliesshoulld be boiled alive in the Skronky Pot

Then be walled up into a specially designed crypt in KK's compound for all eternity


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 23 2010 @ 02:56 AM
By: monsterzero

Content:

Quote by: g_rock

Might I suggest, as a new standard practice for the island, that when one drops supplies, they might mention it on the map space using 'Look around for other people', that would cut confusion as to who left what for whom, and allow random travellers to CHECK FIRST before picking up random supplies to make sure thay aren't stealing

That's a great idea...but in my case I was the only one who'd staked a claim on that square, so whoever did the stealing not only knew they were stealing, they knew exactly from whom they were stealing.

Have I mentioned that the Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition, weighs 175 pounds?


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 23 2010 @ 03:52 AM
By: ImNewHere

Content:

Yeah, I got nailed for 19 stone, and I was the ONLY one with a claim at New Home. I did 9 stone, had to use a chronospehre, dropped it, ran to IC for a masonry kit, got back and it was gone. Got 10 more and the same thing! I think I figured out who did it too. Still, it was quite frustrating to waste 2 days in a row because of a thief.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 23 2010 @ 08:05 AM
By: NotAgain

Content:

*Nods* Indeed.

It's one of the few times I've found a real need for an Alt. Drop the materials, pick 'em up with the Alt. Run back, harvest more. Rinse & repeat.

So what if the Alt's backpack is horribly overloaded? They're not going anywhere. Big Grin

It's a crying shame that we need to resort to such complicated means... but it appears that the Recruiting Crews don't rate a moral sense highly in the prereq's of those they kidnap. *Sighs*


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 23 2010 @ 06:22 PM
By: Ebenezer

Content:

Quote by: NotAgain

*Nods* Indeed.

It's one of the few times I've found a real need for an Alt. Drop the materials, pick 'em up with the Alt. Run back, harvest more. Rinse & repeat.

So what if the Alt's backpack is horribly overloaded? They're not going anywhere. Big Grin

It's a crying shame that we need to resort to such complicated means... but it appears that the Recruiting Crews don't rate a moral sense highly in the prereq's of those they kidnap. *Sighs*



Escemfer and I did the same thing, only with poor old Ebenezer in the place of "alt." Sat on a pile of materials, I did, brooding like a bird on a nest...


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 23 2010 @ 06:33 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Can I point out to people, one consequence. Apart from effects on the outpost invasions, the effects on looking after of rookies? People aren't going in to Newhome and making the rookie page in the wiki known, and generally being welcoming so much any more.

Can we try and make a point of doing this occasionally please? Especially as CMJ's just had an advertising drive. We all know that it's good for everyone in the long run.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 12:38 AM
By: Escemfer

Content:

It would be nice to have more people than just Ebenezer welcoming rookies in NewHome, but I don't think it's a dwelling-related issue, really. Otherwise, it could really be a jungle fighting issue, or a travelling issue, or a drive kill issue as well. Confused Besides that, some friends and clannies and I are building a social spot for rookies and clanless contestants, which I plan on recruiting in-character volunteers for, and posting advertisements about everywhere. So spending time on dwellings doesn't necessarily mean shunning rookies.

Feedback? Idea time! Really flexible key system please?

Regular keys (possibly cost 5 cigs to forge one?) for the whole dwelling, or linked to certain rooms
Master keys (10+ cigs to forge, limited numbers per dwelling) for the whole dwelling

Secure rooms so that only people with regular keys can enter
Secure rooms so that people with regular keys can lock or unlock them at will
Secure rooms so that only people with master keys can enter

Master keys would, ideally, enable the holder to lock and unlock rooms, enter private rooms, and use options like new build jobs, descriptions, and forging regular keys. Contestants should be able to relinquish their keys, including dwelling owners as long as someone else holds a master key.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 03:42 AM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Yes Esc, you're right. Ebenezer has been doing stirling work above and beyond the call of duty there. There are others who go in from time to time, but it is mainly Ebenezer. I go there far less often than I might myself. I spent an hour or so in their today, but that was the first time in ages. Now I'm up in CC404.

In which case, can everyoneelse try and go in a bit more often, and do their thing?

I like your idea of a rookie clanless/contestant social spot. Excellent work there. No good ideas to add though.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 04:03 AM
By: ImNewHere

Content:

I don't mind people using my floating castle for rookies. It would have been great for someone to show me the ropes at first, but I muddled through on my own. Hmm, maybe tomorrow after work I'll get on and try to help some of the new people for a couple hours.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 07:45 AM
By: tehdave

Content:

I love Dwellings. I'll just put that out there right now
But I think the interface for the House Owner is probably a bit overloaded, especially with a bigger house (Namely, the "Decoration Management" section). The Decoration Management and Lock/Unlock rooms could probably both fall under the heading of "House Management", along with Giving People Keys. I like Esc's idea of 3 different key/room levels, personally. Would actually help a lot with Clan-run Dwellings (Leaders and maybe officers could have Master Keys, members could have regular keys, etc.)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 06:32 PM
By: Bakemaster

Content:

Quote by: NotAgain

*Nods* Indeed.

It's one of the few times I've found a real need for an Alt. Drop the materials, pick 'em up with the Alt. Run back, harvest more. Rinse & repeat.

So what if the Alt's backpack is horribly overloaded? They're not going anywhere. Big Grin

It's a crying shame that we need to resort to such complicated means... but it appears that the Recruiting Crews don't rate a moral sense highly in the prereq's of those they kidnap. *Sighs*


I don't take materials that are on existing plots; that being said, I do think the above is an abusive use of an alt that crosses an important line to give your main a game advantage. Yes, most of us agree that it's poor form to grab materials that are sitting on someone else's plot. But until such time as Dan decides to change the way things work re: dropping and picking up materials, it's your responsibility to deal with the risk of your materials being stolen in a way OTHER than circumventing a game mechanic via multiple accounts. There are many, many such alternative courses of action. Resorting immediately to "oh, I'll just use my alt" is not only lazy—I'd say it's far more disrespectful of the player community (and possibly of Dan, though he may not feel this crosses a line—I can't speak for him there) than taking materials someone left at their plot.

And that is how I feel about that; take it as you will.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 07:08 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Yeah... using an alt for this is pretty cheaty, guys. Alts are only allowed on the Island at all because folks like to use them for RP. It'd be far, far easier for me to block alts altogether than it is for me to write in checks for every module where alts would allow a potential exploit.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 08:49 PM
By: Bernard

Content:

Quote by: Escemfer

It would be nice to have more people than just Ebenezer welcoming rookies in NewHome, but I don't think it's a dwelling-related issue, really. Otherwise, it could really be a jungle fighting issue, or a travelling issue, or a drive kill issue as well. Confused Besides that, some friends and clannies and I are building a social spot for rookies and clanless contestants, which I plan on recruiting in-character volunteers for, and posting advertisements about everywhere. So spending time on dwellings doesn't necessarily mean shunning rookies.

Feedback? Idea time! Really flexible key system please?

Regular keys (possibly cost 5 cigs to forge one?) for the whole dwelling, or linked to certain rooms
Master keys (10+ cigs to forge, limited numbers per dwelling) for the whole dwelling

Secure rooms so that only people with regular keys can enter
Secure rooms so that people with regular keys can lock or unlock them at will
Secure rooms so that only people with master keys can enter

Master keys would, ideally, enable the holder to lock and unlock rooms, enter private rooms, and use options like new build jobs, descriptions, and forging regular keys. Contestants should be able to relinquish their keys, including dwelling owners as long as someone else holds a master key.



You try welcoming newbies and you get a bloomin' earful. Well, I asks yer. (wink)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 10:13 PM
By: Tyr

Content:

If you told me the price of Master keys was that I'd never be able to do a midget run again, I'd say, "go for it." If you told me they'd cost 100 cigs, I'd empty my tobacco pouch. If you told me I'd never be able to use a plasma gun again, I'd happily do runs with a spork. If you told me it would cause all tea to disappear from the island, I'd sedate Ebenezer then say, "I'll take two."

Also, I love Dwellings. I hadn't said that yet. Love them.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 10:17 PM
By: Adder+Moray

Content:

Quote by: Tyr

If you told me the price of Master keys was that I'd never be able to do a midget run again, I'd say, "go for it." If you told me they'd cost 100 cigs, I'd empty my tobacco pouch. If you told me I'd never be able to use a plasma gun again, I'd happily do runs with a spork. If you told me it would cause all tea to disappear from the island, I'd sedate Ebenezer then say, "I'll take two."

Also, I love Dwellings. I hadn't said that yet. Love them.



Sedating Ebenezer and taking away his tea? Adder wants to know where the sign up sheet is...

I mean!

Yes, yes, that key system is quite good.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 24 2010 @ 10:28 PM
By: Ebenezer

Content:

Quote by: Adder+Moray

Quote by: Tyr

If you told me the price of Master keys was that I'd never be able to do a midget run again, I'd say, "go for it." If you told me they'd cost 100 cigs, I'd empty my tobacco pouch. If you told me I'd never be able to use a plasma gun again, I'd happily do runs with a spork. If you told me it would cause all tea to disappear from the island, I'd sedate Ebenezer then say, "I'll take two."

Also, I love Dwellings. I hadn't said that yet. Love them.



Sedating Ebenezer and taking away his tea? Adder wants to know where the sign up sheet is...

I mean!

Yes, yes, that key system is quite good.



HMPH!

No key system is worth that price. -- Though, if we could get it without sacrificing the tea and my consciousness, then I'm all for it.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 25 2010 @ 12:48 AM
By: Skidge

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Yeah... using an alt for this is pretty cheaty, guys. Alts are only allowed on the Island at all because folks like to use them for RP. It'd be far, far easier for me to block alts altogether than it is for me to write in checks for every module where alts would allow a potential exploit.



Eek! But...but.....but...............oh please don't do that. I...I just..........**eyes her army of lulzalts** I wouldn't know.....what to do with myself........I mean, I can spend hours just, you know, talking to myself? And myself and myself and myself. And...that guy over there, he's not an alt. I don't know who let him in. But he seems nice.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 25 2010 @ 02:06 AM
By: Chimental

Content:

Quote by: Skidge

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Yeah... using an alt for this is pretty cheaty, guys. Alts are only allowed on the Island at all because folks like to use them for RP. It'd be far, far easier for me to block alts altogether than it is for me to write in checks for every module where alts would allow a potential exploit.



Eek! But...but.....but...............oh please don't do that. I...I just..........**eyes her army of lulzalts** I wouldn't know.....what to do with myself........I mean, I can spend hours just, you know, talking to myself? And myself and myself and myself. And...that guy over there, he's not an alt. I don't know who let him in. But he seems nice.



As much as I would love to help Skidge in her battle with schizophrenia, I would enjoy it if you do not block alts please. I have a few myself and they are for RP ONLY! Most of the time, alts in general can't do much but roleplay, mainly because they are unfed rookie accounts. By the time they go to IC, grab a kit, and head back, I believe they would already be near the orange. (If they hadn't Failboated.)

And if someone is actually spending the time to level up multiple accounts just to add a few pieces of wood and rocks to their house, well then they're an ass.

YEAH, YOU HEARD ME!


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 25 2010 @ 04:34 AM
By: Daedalus

Content:

Could I ask some one, anyone, to extend the wikki on Dwellings? And add a link to the Rookie advisory when it's done. I'd do it myself, but I haven't built anything, so ... *shrug*

As some one who wasn't around in S1, they're a bit confusing.

An example: when they were first introduced, I saw all these logs lying around and thought they were 'dropped' in the same way that crates are. I picked some up, thought, "shit, they're heavy", and dropped them again. I'm guessing other new arrivals are doing the same. Later I hired some kit in IC, tried it out on other's projects,(ie: donated the produce), and haven't gone back since. That's the sum total of my knowledge about dwellings. I still don't know what the ongoing costs are. Do stakes expire if not built on within a given time? And what the heck is this stuff about keys? (usw).

As things stand, I still don't know how even the basic process works, and have gone from looking forward to them prior to their introduction to "It's all too complicated, I'm not going to bother (yet)." Now I know some of you are thinking "that's your choice, on your own head be it", and I agree, but I think it'd be useful (at least) for Rookies and dummies like me to have a basic 'instruction manual' available.

And in the longer run, either resources need some form of protection (drop off sites within staked plots, as suggested above, seems best,) or else players need to suck it up, as 'losing' stuff is going to be part of the game. i.e 'Use it or lose it', as you can't stockpile it securely.

D.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 25 2010 @ 04:41 AM
By: tehdave

Content:

Good point with adding the Logs/Stones to the advisory. Also, as far as the safe storage of logs/stones, it would probably be fairest if you could only "store" as many stones/logs as the current build project would require.

On another note, do Nested rooms work properly? Didn't want to start a new room on my Castle until I'm sure it'll branch off from the Dining Hall, and not directly from the Main Courtyard...


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 25 2010 @ 02:41 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

D. Good point about adding something about what these stones and wood and dwellings are lying around, but not a whole page. There's a lot in there, and it's rather good fun finding it out as you go along.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: February 26 2010 @ 12:57 PM
By: Bernard

Content:

Quote by: tehdave

Good point with adding the Logs/Stones to the advisory. Also, as far as the safe storage of logs/stones, it would probably be fairest if you could only "store" as many stones/logs as the current build project would require.

On another note, do Nested rooms work properly? Didn't want to start a new room on my Castle until I'm sure it'll branch off from the Dining Hall, and not directly from the Main Courtyard...



They don't appear to - every room I've started in t'Bingo 'All I've tried to start as a nest (most pertinently Fergus' nest up in the dome). But I don't mind... All the rooms will soon be described as corridors and hang the decoratin' expense when they do begin to work.

Also, any news on keys and how they'd work? I'm keen to hand keys out as quickly as possible - and if at all possible, it would be lovely to get some people making their own rooms in the Bingo Hall. I don't think we mind building as a team... But...

I think what I'm asking is: What will the next steps be in terms of dwellings?


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 08:03 AM
By: Awesome Fred

Content:

Alright, my feedback here is a little different, though I'll start off by saying that I love the dwellings.
(I'd also be pleased if we can make kitchens that serve food, shops that can sell eBoy-type items, or inferior healing tents.)

The real issue I bring up is the consolidation of skills. I am a power-player; I love to try to max out my stats, but I am also fairly reasonable when it comes to playing for flavor.

As such, I frown every time I see that I have 100 Reinforcement skill but that I'm currently at only 13 Carpentry skill. Reinforcing skill is about hammering planks of wood. Carpentry is somewhat similar. It feels very narrow for the Reinforcement skill to only apply to outpost walls, even though I do recognize that almost all of the skills are one-trick ponies.

I have absolutely no problem with the high stamina costs of building; my troubles lie in that there are currently no racial bonuses that modify the dwelling-based skills that I've seen (I haven't checked robots, actually, which I remember do have a Reinforcement benefit, but I will never use them again because I love a high-defense playstyle) and that I have to start the dwelling skills from scratch when thematically, my Reinforcement could have been Carpentry all this time and I could have had a bonus to start out with.

That being said, I'm fine if my whine is rebutted convincingly. I am pleased that, extrapolating what I've seen, that the 5% stamina costs all drop to a 2% at level 100. It really makes each skill-raise worthwhile. I do enjoy the effort and achievement aspect of getting my skills up, and once my initial dwelling construction is complete (at 62 logs) and I have a place to sleep, I'll be straight Logging until 100 (at 20 now) and dropping all the wood at my feet, free for anyone to come and take if they need. (Directly north of Kittania and east of Pleasantville).

Aimless afterthought: Because I have a very low amount of cigs (having recently bought the plot and not being a long-time player), I've been stacking my stamina and rentals to coincide. I don't eat for days, and when I hit "very weak and malnourished", I go and fill up on Mutant Steaks (over 260% on full!), grab the tools, and work until I tire. I then don't work on the house for many ingame days until I hit that hunger again. If the tools didn't work on this sort of rental scheme, I wouldn't form this play habit.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 12:09 PM
By: K.K.+Victoria

Content:

Then mate, you may want to try Robot again. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

(I sure as Hell was.)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 02:55 PM
By: NotAgain

Content:

Quote by: Bakemaster

I don't take materials that are on existing plots; that being said, I do think the above is an abusive use of an alt that crosses an important line to give your main a game advantage. Yes, most of us agree that it's poor form to grab materials that are sitting on someone else's plot. But until such time as Dan decides to change the way things work re: dropping and picking up materials, it's your responsibility to deal with the risk of your materials being stolen in a way OTHER than circumventing a game mechanic via multiple accounts. There are many, many such alternative courses of action. Resorting immediately to "oh, I'll just use my alt" is not only lazy—I'd say it's far more disrespectful of the player community (and possibly of Dan, though he may not feel this crosses a line—I can't speak for him there) than taking materials someone left at their plot.

And that is how I feel about that; take it as you will.


I, for one, don't see how it's "cheating." Considering that my partner and I were working together doing exactly the same thing. We only resorted to the Alt because there's a 16 hour TZ difference and co-ordinating our chars started affecting real life.

We also could've accomplished it by harvesting materials & then installing them ourselves in the same day.

But we didn't want to roleplay like that.

The Alt didn't do any harvesting, toting or building. We just used it as storage so we could RP the way we wanted to. Although it did play a significant part in the accompanying RP... which is it's main purpose in the first place!

If you call that cheating, I'd hate to have you referee any of our sporting events. The game'd never get off the ground... Big Grin

(PS... and people still stole significant amounts of materials. My partner (or the Alt) would drop a few materials for my char - the builder - to pick up and some a/hole hovering on the spot would collect them ASAP. Not once or twice, but several times. That to me is not only cheating, but the lowest possible form of it. Ptui! I spit on them.)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 05:52 PM
By: Awesome Fred

Content:

Quote by: K.K.+Victoria

Then mate, you may want to try Robot again. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

(I sure as Hell was.)



Oh no. Please. Playing a robot was a hell for me, all those overheats. It's not worth it even with my neurotic need to be stamina efficient... <.<

Don't make me try them again! D:


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 05:54 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: NotAgain

I, for one, don't see how it's "cheating." Considering that my partner and I were working together doing exactly the same thing. We only resorted to the Alt because there's a 16 hour TZ difference and co-ordinating our chars started affecting real life.

We also could've accomplished it by harvesting materials & then installing them ourselves in the same day.

But we didn't want to roleplay like that.

The Alt didn't do any harvesting, toting or building. We just used it as storage so we could RP the way we wanted to. Although it did play a significant part in the accompanying RP... which is it's main purpose in the first place!

If you call that cheating, I'd hate to have you referee any of our sporting events. The game'd never get off the ground... Big Grin

(PS... and people still stole significant amounts of materials. My partner (or the Alt) would drop a few materials for my char - the builder - to pick up and some a/hole hovering on the spot would collect them ASAP. Not once or twice, but several times. That to me is not only cheating, but the lowest possible form of it. Ptui! I spit on them.)

CMJ calls it cheating. So it is cheating.

Theft is part of the design. Yes, there's an ever-present risk of losing materials. This encourages the development of strategies to foil thieves, and makes the game more challenging for those who just want to build or help others build. If CMJ doesn't want alts to be used in those strategies, then we shouldn't use them.

Right now, though, it's certainly true that theft is too easy. There's no risk at all of getting caught. People who choose to steal ought to be having to balance the value of what they could get against some bad consequence that might happen.

Once the Titans feature is released, I think that will change. The game itself can't distinguish between intended transfer and theft -- but players sure can. For players to be able to fight a Titan together, they will have to be able to see who else is on a World Map square with them. That means that, at the very least, thieves will have to stop stealing from an active building project with a worker on-site. Or if they are dumb enough to try it, they'll be risking being identified and branded a thief.

Edit: One enhancement that would be very good, once Dan gets the time, would be the ability to leave a short note with a pile of wood or stone. I can foresee all sorts of interesting uses for that, but one could be designating which structure the pile is intended for. That way, someone who came along with spare stamina and the right toolkit -- who happened to be feeling generous -- would feel free to contribute some labor. At the very least, the thieves would then know who it was they were stealing from. Or, people could write: "Free for all takers," and then anyone could pick it up without having to feel like a thief.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 06:44 PM
By: Bakemaster

Content:

Quote by: NotAgain

I, for one, don't see how it's "cheating." Considering that my partner and I were working together doing exactly the same thing.


Okay, then I guess I'll make an alt and use its turns to generate extra cigarettes. I'll admit it to the clan once it has accumulated 100 ciggies and donate them toward my clan buff. I don't see how it's "cheating" considering that me and my sister were working together doing exactly the same thing.

The above is admittedly a more clear-cut situation, but apart from a difference of degree, the situations are analogous. You want to do with one player something that can otherwise only be done with two players. Unfortunately, in this game, you don't have the freedom to do anything you want simply because you want to RP a certain way. In a more free-form environment, you could. But just as this game is not a sporting event, it is not a completely free-form RP environment.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 06:52 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

{snip}For players to be able to fight a Titan together, they will have to be able to see who else is on a World Map square with them.{/snip}


{derailthread}
I heartily approve of this. Actually, I'd love to be able to have a GPS or something where you can allow specific people (Read: spouses, clannies, specific friends, etc.) to see where you are on the world map. And maybe have the "Online Clan Members" option available from places other than just the Clan Halls. Myself and a few clannies have been discussing this recently, since there's no real RP in the GERM Clan halls space, everything takes place at Dunbernarding now, and there's no way to keep track from there of who's around...
Again, could have it as a completely opt-in system, so you can prevent people from just spying on you unless you let them. (maybe only let people see where you are if you also have them on your list?)
{/derailthread}

Back on topic, yeah I agree using alts to guard supplies is tempting, but it really is cheating. I like Sessine's idea of having a way of knowing who took the supplies from your spot, but again, that's part of the risk of having a dwelling in a semi-populated area. I don't believe I've ever run into the issue, since my own dwelling is out away from everything else, sort of remote. Even though there's other dwellings around, they're mostly people's houses who are honest, or even helpful themselves (Dropping logs to neighbors, helping with decorations, etc). If you know whose dwellings are around, you can organize with them for helping each other, but as far as dishonesty, well....that's just part of the system as-is. Which sucks, I agree.

{/rant}


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 08:19 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: tehdave[snip] I like Sessine's idea of having a way of knowing who took the supplies from your spot, but again, that's part of the risk of having a dwelling in a semi-populated area. I don't believe I've ever run into the issue, since my own dwelling is out away from everything else, sort of remote. Even though there's other dwellings around, they're mostly people's houses who are honest, or even helpful themselves (Dropping logs to neighbors, helping with decorations, etc). If you know whose dwellings are around, you can organize with them for helping each other, but as far as dishonesty, well....that's just part of the system as-is. Which sucks, I agree.[/p]
You'd only know if you happened to be there, watching, at the time they were taken. And that's reasonable. If you're right there and actively using them, you ought to be able to see if someone comes along and grabs them from under your nose.

If you leave building supplies unattended, on the other hand, and want to come back and use them later, that's a risk. You're depending on others who stumble across them not to pick them up.

Yes, the risk is lower in remote areas far off the beaten path. Security by obscurity is better than no security. But if you haven't lost anything at all by now, you've just been lucky. Some people don't bother with crate-finders; they do sweeps.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 08:24 PM
By: g_rock

Content:

Personally, I like to lie to myself and tell myself that it's roving bands of Thieving Midget Bastards raiding the lumber stacks at Dunbernarding. Actually, it would make a lot of sense, seeing as it's a right BASTARD thing to do...


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 08:41 PM
By: Bernard

Content:

Quote by: g_rock

Personally, I like to lie to myself and tell myself that it's roving bands of Thieving Midget Bastards raiding the lumber stacks at Dunbernarding. Actually, it would make a lot of sense, seeing as it's a right BASTARD thing to do...



I wouldn't have said Dunbernarding was a right BASTARD thing to do.




Oh, you mean theft.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 01 2010 @ 10:04 PM
By: g_rock

Content:

Quote by: Bernard

Quote by: g_rock

Personally, I like to lie to myself and tell myself that it's roving bands of Thieving Midget Bastards raiding the lumber stacks at Dunbernarding. Actually, it would make a lot of sense, seeing as it's a right BASTARD thing to do...



I wouldn't have said Dunbernarding was a right BASTARD thing to do.




Oh, you mean theft.



Uncle, you've been asked politely to stay out of the silver polish. We all know how you enjoy the taste, but it gets expensive to replace.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 02 2010 @ 04:57 AM
By: ImNewHere

Content:

Since I don't have an alt, clan, or RP buddies I simply have to do it the old fashioned way. Lug the stuff all over the map! Well, stones anyways since the jungle is only one square north of my floating castle. Still, this whole stealing bit is quite annoying and I would LOVE to see storage that we can shove enough logs or stone in to complete what we are working on. I plan on loads of sleep space for all the rookies (and anyone else who needs it) at NH to use as an extra edge at no extra charge, and that's going to take a load of work for me to get it there.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 02 2010 @ 05:30 AM
By: Raiment

Content:

I'd be all over some kind of Item storage in dwellings. Ideally, it would be a safe of some kind that could house all sorts of building materials (and maybe other items!), lockable, and increasable in size. Wait, that sounds a lot like the current Dwelling system's rooms!

I don't want to go all radical on an already-great idea. I love dwellings, they're all I spend my game time on now. But aside from chatspaces and flavor, I want some functionality increase for all my hard labor. I know some say that the housing manager's menu is already a bit cluttered, but I'd like to provide the idea to add Side Projects!

Side Project Idea 1: Item storage.
This means nominating a room for item storage, like a walk-in vault. It can be locked or left open to the public as usual. People can't sleep there any more. Floor spaces are instead used to hold items of any size, limit one per space. If left open, this means anyone can take the items you left as well as leave their own. Allows for inter-player sharing, trading, borrowing, and potential stealing, but it also allows people to keep some handy items for the next DK. I really endorse this idea.

Side Project Idea 2: Actual Beds!
I'm tired of seeing that I'm sleeping on the floor when the description tells me I'm in a bedroom. I'd like to offer the idea of building/buying/questing for a bed. They're heavy as hell and really large, so large that they take up two floor spaces and can only fit one person once installed, BUT! They offer twice the morning stamina gain over sleeping on the floor. Spend enough time on increasing the size of your dwelling's rooms and you can fit a lot of happier travelers.

Side Project Idea 3: Vending Machines?
Maybe I shouldn't bring this up, as I wasn't here for S1 when these were implemented and were deemed game-imbalancing. I was thinking that a vending machine would also be a construct-able item (that requires some unique parts that could limit their propagation) that, when installed in a dwelling, would take up one floor space and hold one item. the item's price would be adjustable by the owner within certain limits.

Anyhow: as far as feedback goes, I'm loving Dwellings. I see a lot of potential in them, and I wish to see them grow to become even greater hubs of player actions and creativity.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 02 2010 @ 02:12 PM
By: Ada

Content:

Item storage: no, please no. Desperately imbalancing. I really shouldn't have to elaborate!


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 02 2010 @ 04:37 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Ada

Item storage: no, please no. Desperately imbalancing. I really shouldn't have to elaborate!



I agree wholeheartedly...with item storage, I could drop off a bunch of one-shots in there and have someone else pick them all up, DK, then come back and pick them up and sell them all: starting a DK with a good 40k req without taking the questing into account. (And that's only one example of game-breaking this would incur, and I think if I've read properly, had occured in S1)

Maybe a storage room for LOGS and STONE only? cost less than a regular room, but doesn't have a chatspace, and holds up to {Current log/stone deficit for current construction project} or just enough to build one extension. With this, you could have people drop the stone/logs into it, and then others could use them directly from there, instead of having to grab them from the map? I'd endorse this idea. Even if it was left so you could take materials from it (even if you aren't the dwelling owner) to keep it from being just a place to hide the logs/stone...at least it would be clear whose building materials you're stealing...


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 02 2010 @ 07:39 PM
By: Raiment

Content:

Okay, so true item storage is a bit of a touchy subject. Good to know.

I'd like to point out that not many people would be opposed to the Bed idea, though.

What you'd like to see, then, is a Storage Shed kind of feature.

Once your place has been upgraded from an Empty Plot (meaning there's an interior area) I feel it should have some construction material storage, like a work shed or a small garage.
That means that you can opt to drop your Stones and Logs in the main entryway, perhaps up to a reasonable limit. These supplies will then count as belonging to that dwelling. No one can take them out again, they can only be used for that Dwelling's construction projects. Furthermore, you won't have to pick them up in order to add them to the Dwelling.

That's what I'd like to see, at least. Personally, I'm fine with lugging around my goods and protecting them like a mother hen, but i know many people are having difficulty with theft. Maybe I'm not in such a high-crime area?

Barring all this supply nonsense, I'd really think it'd be cool to see Beds implemented.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 03 2010 @ 10:42 AM
By: calliaphone

Content:

Quote by: tehdave

{derailthread}
...I'd love to be able to have a GPS or something where you can allow specific people (Read: spouses, clannies, specific friends, etc.) to see where you are on the world map. And maybe have the "Online Clan Members" option available from places other than just the Clan Halls. Myself and a few clannies have been discussing this recently, since there's no real RP in the GERM Clan halls space, everything takes place at Dunbernarding now, and there's no way to keep track from there of who's around...
Again, could have it as a completely opt-in system, so you can prevent people from just spying on you unless you let them. (maybe only let people see where you are if you also have them on your list?)
{/derailthread}


Yeah, I'd really love to be able to view the contestants list and the online clannies list from within dwellings. At present, if you want to know where folks are, you have to leave the house and head into town. Bit of a pain if you're RPing in a house and just want to check quickly who's about, without travelling.

Ditto, access to the preferences link. I sent Callia off to change her clothes, and wanted to update my biography. She had to leave the house and go to town to do it. Bloody little exhibitionist.

Also - any possibility of clarification on keys? I'm confused. Have been all my life. But ... getting back to my question. I'm not a home-owner myself (quite happy taking advantage of a certain benevolent Uncle until he gets paranoid that we're all after the inheritance and boots us out), which means I've not seen the management interface for houses, and am a bit clueless. When keys come along, am I right in thinking ... you lock a door, it stays locked until you (or some other keyholder) opens it? Or does the door open to admit you, and then lock behind you automatically (like my own front-door in fact, which of course means i can lock myself out, ohgodohgodohCMJdon'timplementthat"feature" PLEASE).

Also...hoping this isn't another potential derail:
did someone mention kitchens with real food? I had been meaning to suggest this for clan-halls, but maybe it'd suit dwellings better. The ability to donate meat (and ideally other food items?) to a shared kitchen. And then to create a menu with custom names for the dishes - availability of meals depending on how much bounty is in the store.

Edits to say:
eep, i'm an idiot, i completely forgot my main point which was YAY FOR DWELLINGS! i had not followed all the discussion about them before implementation so they were a total and wonderful surprise. it's a bit tough doing all this building/decorating in RP while i'm having my RL kitchen re-done, but I'LL LIVE WITH IT, GLADLY. because... The Bingo Hall, guys, the Bingo Hall. An' it's just gonna get better'n'better'n'better...


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 03 2010 @ 07:57 PM
By: Bakemaster

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Some people don't bother with crate-finders; they do sweeps.


*brzZEEep*
Efficiency is mandated.
All sectors will be surveyed.
while (TRUE)
{
for ($i=0; $i<2; $i++)
{
echo "HI HO\n";
}
work($us);
}
*clickZIPwhirrrrrr*


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 04 2010 @ 09:06 PM
By: Paul+Lo

Content:

It'd be nice to have some sort of speaker or something like the comms tent to send a message everywhere in one dwelling, wouldn't it?

Because things that affect all an area happen, and something needs to emit it.

With Dunbernarding being a colossus, we're getting a little lost.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 04 2010 @ 10:48 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Paul+Lo

It'd be nice to have some sort of speaker or something like the comms tent to send a message everywhere in one dwelling, wouldn't it?

Because things that affect all an area happen, and something needs to emit it.

With Dunbernarding being a colossus, we're getting a little lost.



A little lost? I wandered in there yesterday and just now found my way out! And I barely walked in there at all!

(Yes Dunbernarding is huge. And sprawling. And we need to be able to link rooms circularly so we can confuse more people.)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 07 2010 @ 06:00 PM
By: Booya

Content:

Is theft really that much of a problem? So far I haven't had any trouble, my myself, cutting a few rocks at a time on CC404 and dropping them on the ground until I have enough to one-shot out. I think it works decently because as long as it only takes a few minutes, odds are a thief isn't going to stumble across it that quickly. Whereas if you leave your building materials out all night, you can probably assume they'll be gone in the morning.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 07 2010 @ 09:13 PM
By: Paul+Lo

Content:

Quote by: Booya

Is theft really that much of a problem? So far I haven't had any trouble, my myself, cutting a few rocks at a time on CC404 and dropping them on the ground until I have enough to one-shot out. I think it works decently because as long as it only takes a few minutes, odds are a thief isn't going to stumble across it that quickly. Whereas if you leave your building materials out all night, you can probably assume they'll be gone in the morning.



The problem is, with such a grand project as Dunbernarding (an only one person to order extensions. I'm looking at you, old fellow), we have to think much, much in advance when we bring materials out of the source; three or four stones disappearing might be irritating when you just finished hauling them from the mountains, but what about 40? A little less than a lucky day for some (me), but an awful lot of work still for everybody. And the fact that the place is on a traveling road doesn't help.

We put stuff at places so others can help us out, be that fellow clannies or good samaritans (and bored blokes).


Think in a more realistic context; what would happen to someone who stole a day's work of wood from lumberjacks? In my awesomely twisted mind, I see crazy bearded axe-swingers making mince meat of the thief and his mean of transport.

Don't steal from others, folks. Be respectable contestants.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 11 2010 @ 05:45 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

Theft of materials is kind of annoying. As someone said--Sessine, I believe--there should be a way to know who took your stuff, at least some measure of risk for thieves (chainsaw wielding lumberjack berserkers is an amusing image, thank you, Paul).

Still, I accept it as part of the game. *shrugs* At least it will give me more opportunity to build up my stonecutting levels after someone stole 19 blocks from me in the two minutes I was away from the house.

I still say that toolkits should be available in other outposts. I think it would make sense for the land purchase office to be located in Improbable Central--that's a rather significant legal function, it would be plausible to have it in one spot. But I think that the toolkits should be made available elsewhere.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 11 2010 @ 06:57 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

But, Gorbert! having the kits available everywhere would make building too easy. It's not supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be a challenge in logistics -- and the most efficient answer is different depending on where you're building, and what kind of travel buffs you have. Taking out the required daily stop in IC would simplify the process too much.

As for theft, it is beyond annoying, it's infuriating. All the same, I'm not in favor of any measure that would make it impossible. Risk is part of the game.

And I think there's a reason there is no chance of getting caught. I personally have had moments when I wanted to throttle whoever walked off with my stones or logs. It would be oh-so-satisfying to know who it was so I could... whoa! Could what?

Engage in Bad Drama, is what. We don't have a legal system on the Island. What would we get? A lot of contention. A shitstorm. It's not worth it. It's far better for the atmosphere of the game as a whole for people to be briefly furious at an unidentifiable someone, than at a specific, known, fellow player.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 02:32 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

A valid point. But I still don't think theft should be risk free. There are plenty of possible pitfalls for thieves that could be implemented entirely by the game without involving the person who owns the supplies. For instance, the stack of logs could shift while you're trying to steal them and crush you beneath its weight, sending you straight to the Failboat. Or someone could see you and spread it around (metaphorically speaking, because no players would actually find out) that you're a thief and your Charm takes a blow equivalent to that caused by swimming in Skronky Juice. There are tons of options for punishing thieves without causing bad drama between people.

As for the toolkits, I don't think that having them more widely available would make it too easy. It would just make it easier. There's still the issue of massive stamina costs, the large amount of supplies needed to complete a single room, the ever present threat of theft, and the rather high cost of renting. I don't see why it's necessary for toolkits to be exclusive to IC.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 02:41 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Slight problem with an in-game punishment -- the game can't distinguish between thieves and friends cooperating in a work team. We don't want to discourage the latter!


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 02:53 AM
By: Epaphus

Content:

(Note to self: Find where Sessine leaves stones or logs, and walk off with one, just because.)

Wait--Did I just say that out loud?


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 03:07 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Slight problem with an in-game punishment -- the game can't distinguish between thieves and friends cooperating in a work team. We don't want to discourage the latter!



Ah, true Confused

Damn. Well, it was a thought.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 03:29 AM
By: KimmyMonstah

Content:

Quote by: Gorbert

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Slight problem with an in-game punishment -- the game can't distinguish between thieves and friends cooperating in a work team. We don't want to discourage the latter!



Ah, true Confused

Damn. Well, it was a thought.



Plus, there are some of us who meet up in spots to give logs/stones to other people by dropping a heap in one spot while they're there.
If someone's trying to be nice and the game decided to punish them, well...that'd just be silly!


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 13 2010 @ 04:54 AM
By: monsterzero

Content:

Quote by: Escemfer

You'd pretty much just need to change the output from "Enter [roomname]" to "[linkname]". Same idea with the floorspaces, instead of outputting "Floor Space Available," output "[sleepspot] Available".

Yeah, you know how clans can change the word "says" to another word in their chatspace? (FNORDclan favors the word "boggles".) I'd definitely like to be able to change the word "Enter" to something else.

E.g. you could click on "Pick up Land Mine" or "Crawl through Tiny Doorway". Or "Pull My Finger".


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 05:57 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Epaphus

(Note to self: Find where Sessine leaves stones or logs, and walk off with one, just because.)

Wait--Did I just say that out loud?

Why, thank-you, Epaphus! Now if I find stones or logs suddenly missing, I will assume that they have been 'donated' to enhance your elegant edifice.

And I don't mind that, at all.

(Note to self: leave a little something on Epaphus' doorstep, just because.)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 06:06 AM
By: Escemfer

Content:

I don't know if it's been suggested already, but I have for a while been thinking that it would be nice if we could drop our materials within the dwelling they're meant for. I mean, some people are stealing because they're assholes, but some people might not realize that the materials on that map square are for the house next door, not their house? And that would be a much nicer way of sort of stockpiling goods and sharing the fun between friends without having to guard the map square like rabid wolverines.

Just a thought.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 07:58 AM
By: jamesb

Content:

Keys, please.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 08:14 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

Quote by: jamesb

Keys, please.



Keys would be nice, yes. I know they've been mentioned before, I don't know if they're being made. Status on them, anyone?

Ah, and I'd like to take the opportunity to say that, after having finally experienced homeownership and homebuilding...ship, I am very pleased with the way the whole thing has worked out. A lot more fun than [enter how many turns you want to spend on building] Repeat until dwelling is finished. There's more of a sense of accomplishment here than in S1. Thank you, Dan, and well done.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 11:40 AM
By: Mr+Geppetto

Content:

I totally agree with all of the above!
Uh, wait, not all of it of course, that would be a bit like being asked "tea or coffee?" and answering "Yes."

To sum it up: dwellings are awesome. Awesomeness itself could not be more awesome.
Keys: I'd love keys, maybe at least a very simple version of. If at all possible.

Storage. At first I say "Yay!". Then, after thinking a bit more I'm all against it. Regular item storage a no-no, for reasons better stated above. Construction material storage, I'd incline towards no, as well, for the risk of getting your materials stolen will make you plan ahead and make building more of a communal effort. I'm also against identifying/punishing thieves, either by the game or by the players. It's a jungle, people, materials get stolen sometimes even from organized building sites. For all your character knows, those 3 logs could have been removed by a monster or a mischievous Watcher. It happened to me, as well, it was unpleasant but hey, I work around it.

Construction work status? I was thinking, wouldn't it be nice to have some form of information on the state of your construction works? A distraction from the system, the same type you get for a transfer, to let you know a kind stranger did some work at your house while you were away? This way you could thank them and, also, you won't end up carrying a stone masonry kit all the way up to CC, only to find the work completed. Happened to me, ended up passing on the kindness and doing some work on my neighbor's houses, which, of course, wasn't a bad thing, only not very much in character for my character. But I, the player, hate waste so....

Connecting rooms: It would be fun to be able to connect rooms circularly, maybe even have some one-way connections, the sort you get for a secret passage that can be used from only one end. Example: Main room-regular door-library; Main room-regular door-guest bedroom; Library-secret passage-guest bedroom, you could only use the secret passage from the Library to the guest bedroom, not vice-versa. *sigh* That would be lovely.

Working kitchens, I don't know, really. A small stamina boost, a little better than cooking after a fight, I'd say is ok. More than that would be unbalancing, I guess.

Beds. All for it. And hammocks, and daybeds, and ornate four posters, nail beds, inflatable mattresses, haystacks, futons. Maybe a bit more restrictive than decorating a room, more in like a upgrading system. From floor to sleeping bag, from sleeping bag to mattress and so on, to the four poster king size waterbed with incorporated massage and light therapy functions. I'm ranting.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 02:11 PM
By: Ada

Content:

Quote by: Mr+Geppetto

Beds. All for it. And hammocks, and daybeds, and ornate four posters, nail beds, inflatable mattresses, haystacks, futons. Maybe a bit more restrictive than decorating a room, more in like a upgrading system. From floor to sleeping bag, from sleeping bag to mattress and so on, to the four poster king size waterbed with incorporated massage and light therapy functions. I'm ranting.



The upgrade system is interesting, but I'd really rather just be able to change the word "floor" to whatever word I would like. I don't want a four poster king size waterbed with massage function in my garden! But there isn't a floor there, so I'd really rather be able to call it "bench space available" or somesuch.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 13 2010 @ 07:15 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

Quote by: Mr+Geppetto


Storage. At first I say "Yay!". Then, after thinking a bit more I'm all against it. Regular item storage a no-no, for reasons better stated above. Construction material storage, I'd incline towards no, as well, for the risk of getting your materials stolen will make you plan ahead and make building more of a communal effort. I'm also against identifying/punishing thieves, either by the game or by the players. It's a jungle, people, materials get stolen sometimes even from organized building sites. For all your character knows, those 3 logs could have been removed by a monster or a mischievous Watcher. It happened to me, as well, it was unpleasant but hey, I work around it.



Storage would be terribly unbalancing, I agree that it's a bad idea for any kind of materials. However, I still think that a form of punishment should happen. Mr. Geppetto, you say that materials sometimes get stolen even from organized building sites. And the thieves are sometimes caught and punished. I mean no offense, but I don't think it makes sense to say that thievery is acceptable because it could plausibly happen, but any kind of risk, which is also plausible, shouldn't happen.

Aside from my stance that "it should exist because it would make sense," there's also a game balancing aspect. Dan works very hard to make sure that no one has an unfair advantage in this game, but the way things are, people who are inclined to steal have a bit of an advantage over those who don't want to steal. It doesn't ruin the game, certainly, but I feel that there should be a bit of balance to it. A risk to thieves. I mean, every improbable jungle event has a risk: Stonehenge, River, Ferryman and the jungle trail can all send you straight to the Failboat, and the other ones have smaller penalties as well, to balance out the potential payoffs.

*heaves sigh And, after all of that reasoned arguing, this is going to seem stupid: I also fully realize that we can't have a system for punishing thieves. I can't think of anything that could work--at least, not anything that isn't unreasonably complicated. So, the point of all of my annoying ranting is that, while nothing suggested so far would work, if someone can come up with a system that does works, I think it definitely should be implemented.

I'd like to hear others opinions on this. Sorry 'bout the long discourse.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 04:28 AM
By: Cake+Ninja

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Slight problem with an in-game punishment -- the game can't distinguish between thieves and friends cooperating in a work team. We don't want to discourage the latter!



A thought: (Please ignore this if I'm missing whatever mark I'm trying to hit.)

Rather than an automatic punishment for theft, maybe if you're on the map square you placed your logs/stones on while they're taken, you get some sort of notification as to it being taken and by whom. Also, there would be some sort of punishment you can inflict on them if you so choose. (Maybe ask Horatio to do something to them?) It would probably be a bit of work to code, as it would require the materials to remember who dropped them, but it would add risk to being a thief without unfairly punishing kind people.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 13 2010 @ 03:15 AM
By: Mr+Geppetto

Content:

Quote by: Escemfer

Hairy Mary is talkin' about just what I was thinking! Rooms without floor space and/or chatspace. That would be awesome.

And since we're talking about fireman poles and secret passages, it would also be pretty cool if we could rename the links from Room A to Room B. For example, you Enter the Secret Passage and end up in Geppetto's Sex Dungeon or whatever. Or you Slide Down the Fire Pole and end up in A Pool Full of Crocodiles. Renaming the links might be a little too fancy to be easily done, but that's just an idea there.



I'm pretty sure I didn't mention either sex or dungeons. Just passages. No sex, no dungeons. Mentioned. As such. But since you mention it, welcome to my (I guess) sex dungeons. Do I still get the licence? Get the dough anytime someone uses it?


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 05:03 AM
By: Gorbert

Content:

Well, what Sessine said in an earlier comment still holds true. It would be perfectly logical to see who's stealing from you if you're right there, but it could easily lead to bad drama, and we don't need more.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 03:54 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: Mr+Geppetto

Connecting rooms: It would be fun to be able to connect rooms circularly, maybe even have some one-way connections, the sort you get for a secret passage that can be used from only one end. Example: Main room-regular door-library; Main room-regular door-guest bedroom; Library-secret passage-guest bedroom, you could only use the secret passage from the Library to the guest bedroom, not vice-versa. *sigh* That would be lovely.



Yep. Being able to put in new doors between already existing rooms (or between a pre-existing room and outside) would be rather nice.

One way doors? As I understand it, locks are already only one way aren't they? In the above example, build your passage coming off the guest bedroom, then put in another door from there to the library. Keep the guest bedroom/passage way door locked. So then you can't go into the passage from the bedroom, but you can come out the other way. That is how locks work isn't it? I haven't got too far through the building process yet, and I've still got plenty to learn.

Also, is it possible to build rooms without floor space/chat space? Suppose you want a fireman's pole between two rooms (on different floors). Then you want a new "room" between these two rooms with just flavour text saying "You slide down a fireman's pole, Whee!!!" or something similar, and then just the one option to go to the bottom, exit room. You'd probably want to make it one way, as above. You're unlikely to want to have people catching forty winks half way down your pole.

But whatever happens. Dwellings are pretty damn good, I'm loving them.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 06:33 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

You're unlikely to want to have people catching forty winks half way down your pole.



Nope...ruins the moment.

But to be back on topic, yeah I'd like to be able to change the "floor space" in, for instance, my workshop to "Workbench space", or the lounge to "Couch Space"...


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 07:28 PM
By: Escemfer

Content:

Hairy Mary is talkin' about just what I was thinking! Rooms without floor space and/or chatspace. That would be awesome.

And since we're talking about fireman poles and secret passages, it would also be pretty cool if we could rename the links from Room A to Room B. For example, you Enter the Secret Passage and end up in Geppetto's Sex Dungeon or whatever. Or you Slide Down the Fire Pole and end up in A Pool Full of Crocodiles. Renaming the links might be a little too fancy to be easily done, but that's just an idea there.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 12 2010 @ 07:45 PM
By: Escemfer

Content:

Poo on edit time limit! Renaming the links wouldn't actually be as fancy as all that, so I just wanted to babble at you all for a moment:

Renaming your floor spaces could work on the same principle. Upgrading names of links to rooms and floorspaces, perhaps, could cost you. As far as room links go, players would need to be able to write two link titles: the enter, and the return to. For example, enter would be Slide Down the Fire Pole, and return would be Shimmy Back Up There. Everything else, such as the locked text and the owner management options, could just refer to the actual room name: A Pool Full of Crocodiles. If you wanted to be super fancy, owners could also change the locked room text.

You'd pretty much just need to change the output from "Enter [roomname]" to "[linkname]". Same idea with the floorspaces, instead of outputting "Floor Space Available," output "[sleepspot] Available".

If I'm so clever, why aren't I coding this myself? Oh yeah. I'm lazy and don't have Dwelling source code.

/blah blah blah


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 13 2010 @ 02:01 PM
By: Mr+Geppetto

Content:

Quote by: Gorbert

Quote by: Mr+Geppetto


Storage. At first I say "Yay!". Then, after thinking a bit more I'm all against it. Regular item storage a no-no, for reasons better stated above. Construction material storage, I'd incline towards no, as well, for the risk of getting your materials stolen will make you plan ahead and make building more of a communal effort. I'm also against identifying/punishing thieves, either by the game or by the players. It's a jungle, people, materials get stolen sometimes even from organized building sites. For all your character knows, those 3 logs could have been removed by a monster or a mischievous Watcher. It happened to me, as well, it was unpleasant but hey, I work around it.



Storage would be terribly unbalancing, I agree that it's a bad idea for any kind of materials. However, I still think that a form of punishment should happen. Mr. Geppetto, you say that materials sometimes get stolen even from organized building sites. And the thieves are sometimes caught and punished. I mean no offense, but I don't think it makes sense to say that thievery is acceptable because it could plausibly happen, but any kind of risk, which is also plausible, shouldn't happen.

Aside from my stance that "it should exist because it would make sense," there's also a game balancing aspect. Dan works very hard to make sure that no one has an unfair advantage in this game, but the way things are, people who are inclined to steal have a bit of an advantage over those who don't want to steal. It doesn't ruin the game, certainly, but I feel that there should be a bit of balance to it. A risk to thieves. I mean, every improbable jungle event has a risk: Stonehenge, River, Ferryman and the jungle trail can all send you straight to the Failboat, and the other ones have smaller penalties as well, to balance out the potential payoffs.

*heaves sigh And, after all of that reasoned arguing, this is going to seem stupid: I also fully realize that we can't have a system for punishing thieves. I can't think of anything that could work--at least, not anything that isn't unreasonably complicated. So, the point of all of my annoying ranting is that, while nothing suggested so far would work, if someone can come up with a system that does works, I think it definitely should be implemented.

I'd like to hear others opinions on this. Sorry 'bout the long discourse.



Actually, I quite agree with you. It was more or less what I meant in my own ranting, only expressed it quite badly. I had a reference in my mind to the discussion earlier on this subject and the proposed ways for punishment. I am against those, not against any form of retribution, although it doesn't seem such a big issue to me, I see how it can be unbalancing. I guess I don't take thieving seriously because I cannot imagine how someone would deliberately do that (in-game, I mean, not RL; in RL I come from an area where stealing is common occurence, unfortunately, and punishment seldom happens). I might have this idealized image of the I.I., where it's just a confusion or mistake, that someone pick up logs or stones they didn't harvest.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 13 2010 @ 06:33 PM
By: Dulcibella

Content:

Here's one possibly workable solution, though it depends on key implementation: Every land plot comes with moderately capacious storage shed in which building materials can be deposited. Perhaps the shed also must be built in order to appear. They cannot be truly locked, but a key to the shed lets you have access to its contents with impunity. It is still possible to drop logs/rock on a random spot on the map, but most folks will use their shed. Thieves know this... and, of course, The Watcher knows all.

Thus: Picking up materials on the map is still an option, and folks who enjoy maxing their skills can leave stuff around to be found by the lucky. Folks inclined to do some stealing from the material-rich sheds have to go to the dwelling and sneak into the shed by picking the lock, or via some loose board around the back, or somesuch. Whether there is an external readout of the shed contents ("Looking through the grimy window, you can see...") for both users and thieves is also an option.

Once the game is able to track shed break-ins, the manner of punishment can be addressed. Thieves always run the risk of being observed by other players and ostracized in-game (is this actually happening?) but there can be an actual gameplay consequence. My pick would be for a certain percentage chance that the Watcher erases your Failboat credit, since she sees what you are doing and (presumably?) disapproves. Habitual thieves will likely never accumulate enough credit to get a blessing, and basically have to succeed on the Failboat the old-fashioned way to get back to the island. Once a day.

This system seems to fit fairly well with dwellings as they now exist (the shed is basically an extension, independently lockable, from other rooms) although I don't know how tricky coding the storage abilities would be. I imagine it would be sort of like a very large dwelling-based backpack that only accepts logs and stones.

The wildcard is when and how keys turn out to work. Individual contestants who want to let anybody and everybody who stops by help out with their construction might find it untenable if they have to pay ciggies, for example, per key to be cut. I doubt clans would find it too much of a hurdle. (I suppose if locking the shed in the first place is optional, folks who would rather have open access can essentially use the same system as is now in place, only with less confusion about what materials were harvested for what dwelling on a map square.)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 13 2010 @ 07:44 PM
By: Dulcibella

Content:

Other thoughts (sorry, once my mind gets spinning it keeps it up for a while):

-Instead of the Watcher penalty above, each instance of theft gives you a "guilty bastard" combat debuff? 5-10 more turns of guilt-ridden, moderately impaired thwacking for every break-in?

-Thievery medals! Bwahahahaha!

What I think I like best about the outlined system is that there is no more "accidental" theft. If you have to sneak in and pick a lock to get to the paydirt, you KNOW you've made the choice.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 13 2010 @ 10:53 PM
By: talkydoor

Content:

Quote by: Dulcibella

=
Once the game is able to track shed break-ins, the manner of punishment can be addressed. My pick would be for a certain percentage chance that the Watcher erases your Failboat credit, since she sees what you are doing and (presumably?) disapproves. Habitual thieves will likely never accumulate enough credit to get a blessing, and basically have to succeed on the Failboat the old-fashioned way to get back to the island. Once a day.



Blatant prejudice against midgets! Razz


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 14 2010 @ 06:47 AM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: talkydoor

Quote by: Dulcibella

=
Once the game is able to track shed break-ins, the manner of punishment can be addressed. My pick would be for a certain percentage chance that the Watcher erases your Failboat credit, since she sees what you are doing and (presumably?) disapproves. Habitual thieves will likely never accumulate enough credit to get a blessing, and basically have to succeed on the Failboat the old-fashioned way to get back to the island. Once a day.



Blatant prejudice against midgets! Razz



Yeah, what she said! Especially since Midgets have a hard enough time as it is on the Failboat (WHY OH WHY!?!?!?)


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 15 2010 @ 03:55 AM
By: Dulcibella

Content:

Well, there is a reason you don't run into Thieving Robot/Kittymorph/Joker/etc. Bastards out in the wilds. Some stereotypes have roots in truth, yes? Mr. Green

As for added Failboat prejudice, it wouldn't come into play if one avoided stealing.

Or do we want to discuss exempting midgets from this punishment, since they are (A) apparently already punished by default because The Watcher is prejudiced and (2) basically expected to be shameless larcenists?


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 17 2010 @ 01:20 PM
By: Reverb

Content:

Completely off topic, but i was wondering; Do stakes survive a DK? As in, while in the backpack? Backpack items tend to be blown to smithereens, but it ís a ciggie-bought item.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 20 2010 @ 09:15 AM
By: Kash

Content:

This is a bit less related to Dwellings than to the process of gathering materials, but... Would it be a terrible idea to have the default be for logs/stone to be dropped directly to the map? I understand that it may very slightly increases the risk of materials being stolen; but then again, who actually holds all that stuff in their backpack while gathering it? Perhaps I'm the odd one out, but I prefer the not-overload-my-backpack method of efficient stamina use, and the Cut Wood -> Show Inventory -> Drop Log -> World Map -> Repeat process gets a little tiring. I don't imagine any real lumberjack cutting down a tree and then pointlessly picking it up if he's just going to set it down and chop down another tree right after.

The only reason I can think of for keeping the current system is that it would keep someone from just sitting on the same square as a logger and picking up each log they cut down as they cut it down. Which seems to me a very improbable situation. Besides, if it becomes too much of a problem, it shouldn't be too hard to add a "Pick Up Log" option to the Cut Wood module page, right? Which would increase the time that the log is on the ground and vulnerable from 0 seconds (current system) to one or two seconds (which is very little time in terms of people randomly stealing things).


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 26 2010 @ 02:54 AM
By: Sarda

Content:

Any way at all to code it so that logs + stones don't become visible to others until the one who chopped/mined them says they should? Like if the person doesn't want them to be picked up by anyone else, then they just don't click the thing that says "Leave a note on the pile saying Take As You Wish" or something like that, and anyone walking by doesn't notice them(improbably). If the note has been left, then anyone can take the pile, and they appear as "There is a pile of X logs here, with a note on them saying Take As You Wish."

People can still steal them, but not unless the person is working with someone else and left the note so they could take them.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 26 2010 @ 04:05 AM
By: Mack

Content:

The best solution I can think of would be to have a timer on the items. Make them only appear to the person who dropped for a certain period of time. Maybe an hour, or until your tool box gets returned. That would prevent people from stealing the logs you're planning on using immediately.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 25 2010 @ 02:00 PM
By: SinkOrSwim

Content:

I'd like to see some storage or some way around this.

Mainly because, for the first time, some thieving little git has nicked a load of logs from my plot, while I was away on a new day, picking up a kit to nail 'em into place.

If I catch up with them, I'll... write them a strongly worded letter.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 25 2010 @ 06:56 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Sink, I've had that happen to me seven or eight times, now. I must have lost at least a hundred, maybe two hundred, logs or stones. My initial reaction each time has been murderous, coupled with a strong, "Damn it, this is intolerable! There's got to be some way to stop it!" Particularly aggravating if I hadn't even left the square, just put a huge load down in order to pick up a few at a time and apply them.

But... a funny thing happened. I'd grit my teeth, go get more stone or wood -- whatever was stolen -- and run through however many more new-day cycles were needed to make up the stamina loss. As the completion bar turned green, anger would fade to muttering.

And... oddly enough, as soon as the project was complete, somehow the theft turned into an obstacle that I overcame. Now it actually increases my sense of pride when I look at the finished job.

So. If storage is added, later... I think those of us who have done a lot of building under these conditions, tensely looking over our shoulders for thieves with every log or stone, are going to be telling newcomers, "Man, you should have been here in the old days. We had to haul the stone for building on our knees. In the snow. Uphill. Both ways!" Cool


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 25 2010 @ 08:12 PM
By: SinkOrSwim

Content:

That's mainly what I'm doing, Sessine. It's irritating, but there's a block of trees just two squares away, so hell, I'll just cut myself some more. That said, the Improbability-infused soil must be great for growing stuff. I'm sure I must have completely deforested one hectare of best building-grade Scots Pine by now.

Here's a moral dilemma for you all though. I've just noticed, on a walkabout, there is a pile of logs just one square away from my plot, with exactly the number I had stockpiled. There's no stake on the land visible.

Do I:
a) take them, assuming someone's just been playing silly buggers and moved my stockpile? Or;
b) leave them alone, assuming I might be getting neighbours some time?

Answers on a postcard to The Swamp, please.

On a different note, I love this. As Gorbert said, a great sense of satisfaction, even in just finishing one room. There's only a couple of us working on The Swamp, so it's hard work, but even to just complete that first room, attain Shack status, and sit basking in the daylight streaming through the badly-nailed-up clapboard, cup of tea in hand, is fantastic

Huge thanks Joe and the mods who've worked on this. You've made a werewolf very happy.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 25 2010 @ 09:53 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

I'd sure like to take some of the credit for Dwellings, because they're great -- but I can't. They're all CavemanJoe's imagination and hard work.

I am so impressed by the outpouring of creativity they've elicited, too. It's an education to wander the Island, now, peeking behind unlocked doors to see what might have changed since the last time you were there. The World Map has an entirely different feel to it -- it's populated. It's a real landscape. There are marvels to be discovered!


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 26 2010 @ 01:05 AM
By: Bernard

Content:

Umn... Excuse me? I've had an idea.

Okay, accepting what Sessine says (and bless him, that hair shirt looks good on him) but...

It is a problem for many.

So - what is the answer? Well, telling players just who is doing the naughties isn't going to work, Sessine (in hair shirt) is right - it will lead to sadness and drama - so - the answer is to penalize those who want to participate in something that goes against the Island's ideals.

In most other aspects of Island life, those who don't sign up to the agreed moral conventions of the Island are punished/ ostracised/ removed - why not make it so for people who steal?

How? I'm not sure - I'm no coder (is that the term?) but - can people picking up ALL logs or stones on an Island square be queried in some way? Remove the PICK UP ALL function. Make it more of a chore for people?

I'm not suggesting this is the answer - but surely penalising people who do want to go against all of the agreed and workable conventions find that karma comes back and bites them on the arse.

Like a rabid beagle.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 26 2010 @ 02:19 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: SinkOrSwim


Here's a moral dilemma for you all though. I've just noticed, on a walkabout, there is a pile of logs just one square away from my plot, with exactly the number I had stockpiled. There's no stake on the land visible.

Do I:
a) take them, assuming someone's just been playing silly buggers and moved my stockpile? Or;
b) leave them alone, assuming I might be getting neighbours some time?

Answers on a postcard to The Swamp, please.



It's possible that they were found by a new rookie. Put yourself in their position. You're exploring the map, and find these things that you can pick up. What would you do? Move one square, and realise that you're suddenly using a huge amoint of stamina, and drop them all again? I don't know for sure, but I think that that's a possibility.

So. What I would do is leave them for a RL day, then take them back again.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 26 2010 @ 10:23 PM
By: SinkOrSwim

Content:

Pretty much what I did, Mary. I left them for a fair while and then took them back.

< looks to whatever deity werewolves aspire to be reunited with >

If those were someone else's, please forgive me.

< makes himself a brew and wanders off, deity suitably appeased >


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 27 2010 @ 03:46 PM
By: SinkOrSwim

Content:

Oh god Again...

What's worse than someone stealing ALL of the stone for your new room?

Someone stealing just one...


< pads off towards CC404 to replace that last one...>


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 31 2010 @ 12:12 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

One consequence of dwellings is how it affects Squathole. Every other outpost has dwellings on the same map square, usually including a guesthouse of some sort*. I haven't been to Acehigh, but certainly everywhere else does. Now Squathole doesn't, you need to go two squares away to find somewhere that you can build. This makes Squathole a rather less attractive place to stay**. For the game player who want's to stay there, there's three options.

1) Forego the 5% stamina bonus at the start of the day.
2) Begin and end each day wading through two squares of muck.
3) Give up and go elsewhere.

This means that you can't use the last of your stamina reinforcing the Squathole walls and still get your bonus. And it means that people who are trying to heroically defend Squathole are at a disadvantage compared to defenders of other outposts.

I haven't seen any serious effects in terms of outpost defence levels say, but I can't help wondering. I'm not complaining or saying that anything should be changed, just noting it as a possible effect.

Can I ask, is anyone changing their gameplay strategies because of this, or am I just barking up the wrong tree here?

------------------------------------------

*Well done the people who are building these, I feel that they really contribute to the friendly welcoming spirit of the Island, which is one of it's strong features.

**In game play terms, obviously. There's very little that could make Squathole less attractive as, say, a tourist destination.


Re: House Feedback!

Posted on: March 31 2010 @ 02:01 PM
By: Reverb

Content:

Strah-tuh-gee?

I don't understand the question..

But, yeah, the inability to build on swamptiles surprised me as well, seeing as how we have an outpost there with some pretty sturdy buildings. ( if the midgets dont destroy it, its class-a construction, little avatars of entropy as they are.)

I really wanted to build a house-on-stilts along the beach of the lake, but alas..


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