Subject: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 03:25 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

The continuous seige state of New Pitts and CC, and to a lesser extent Squat and AceHigh is really beginning to strip the fun from the game for me. I'm not a huge roleplayer, my primary fun is in the combat and moving through Dan quests and drive kills.

When I can't go into an outpost semi-reliably to bank some req, or even get the fuck out of there safely after a days combat in the jungle it really rips a lot of the fun out of the game for me. It gets rather tiring when it comes down to a choice of loosing the req on hand that I can't damn well bank because the fucking outpost I'm questing in is constantly down to either fighting the breach, or the monsters in the jungle around the outpost, or the monsters in the jungle while trying to travel to somewhere that has a bank open is really beginning to wear on my nerves and strip the fun out of the game for me.

Prior to the last 2 months, both my wife (who plays Silverwind), and myself have been regular site supporters, we've had to help out some family, so there hasn't been the ability to support the site. This will change in the next few days, but we've both wondered if it is even worth supporting, or indeed even continuing to play with the outpost situation.

Some options that I see are:
1 - put in a way to get to travel from the jungle around an outpost, that way a breach doesn't have an effect if you are just trying to complete a quest.
2 - tweak the settings so the outposts don't go under seige as often.
3 - some type of reward for players actually keeping the outposts up, as it stands now, you go in a fight a breach and you get no req, no meat, nothing but experience. If you're not careful you wind up level 15 with shit for armor and weapon and no way to improve things so you can make the drive kill.

Seriously, I love the game overall, but this is really beginning to piss me off to the point where I am ready to say to hell with it and go find some other thing to waste several hours a day on and throw a bit of money at.



Replies:

Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 04:44 AM
By: Azhron

Content:

This happens every now and then, when something gets unbalanced. Probably now because of the holiday drop in site traffic. It'll be back to normal after the first of the year, I'd bet, so just wait until then to play, if it bothers you so much.
That being said, a way to get straight from the jungle to the world map would be nice for times like these.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 05:44 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

So, Azhron, in the same vein, if I had a game locally installed that was unplayable to my playing style for two or three months out of the year, I should just let it sit there and occupy disk space? No, I'd dump the damn thing, and if it was a non-free game simply never purchase from that source again, and if it were open-source, simply let the devel team know that they needed to fix the problem in it.

We'll see how it does, but I think there should be measures taken, especially if there is a history of this behavior in the game, to correct them. How does it look if a new player comes in, starts playing, and attempts the museum quest, only to find out that it's something that is going to take 2 MONTHS to complete simply because one or more outposts is constantly overrun? Kind of a hard sell to get them to keep playing and contribute to a game that has unplayable elements.

As an addendum, a way to tell if an outpost is overrun before entering it would be nice as well. It should be pretty damn obvious when you walk up to that front gate that the walls are breached, or are about to be.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 05:49 AM
By: Iriana

Content:

I understand your frustration. I play as much as I roleplay and it's annoying, to say the least, to be stranded outside an outpost (especially CC, since it takes forever to hike up there anyways).

But... well, a breach is a breach. It just doesn't seem canonical to be able to strike the monsters blind and sneak in under their noses. I'm not sure your first suggestion fits with this. As for the second, I think it's more about outpost traffic than any particular setting that's making the northern outposts go under all the time; people just don't spend much time up there.

That said, I do like number 3. Breaches are nice for exp if you want a fast DK, but I still don't find them interesting, or useful. Mostly because you don't get the monster descriptions. I don't mind the deluge of monsters; I do mind the deluge of boredom. I love the funny descriptions, and it seems kind of mindless to just be killing descriptionless text blurbs, especially if you get no game value other than exp from them. Plus, it's sad to be the only one fending off inevitable doom. Some incentive to draw more defenders would certainly be nice.

At any rate, you can run from monsters that are too high-level for you; I make use of the Run option quite a bit up at CC these days.

(edit)
An idea has been batted around about having an indicator in the Council Offices to tell which Outposts are breached or about to be, so you could stay away or go fight as you chose. /shrug


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 06:05 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

The first suggestion is a way to work on a Dan quest without having to put up with fighting your way back out of a breached outpost. Say your quest is in CC, so you hike there (or whatever) and slip into the jungle from the world map. You knock your way through a day of fighting, with or without finding your quest item/monster, then you get ready to head out and find a bed or turn it in. Right now, the only way is through the outpost, and if it's breached there is a very good chance, even with running, that you will loose any req for the fights you just completed. Granted, you still keep the quest completion proof, but why should you have to face the risk of failboating just to slip away. This also ties into the search for the drive. If you've gone and gotten a gargle-blaster and other short term buffs for the drive hunt, a breach, even with running can bleed those dry before you face the drive.

Yeah, the most obvious solution would be to have more people going to the northern outposts so that the walls can be built up, but how to do that? Over the last 2 months, I've gotten to the point where I could give a crap less about the outposts, I mean it doesn't really matter how many new days stamina I spend building up defenses, within a real world day or two they are all gone and we are right back in the same position again, breached walls, no bank, and way too high of a chance of loosing an entire days req because of it. Now it's one thing to say my character doesn't care about the outposts, I've got him written as an outlaw biker, it makes sense from the character standpoint to grab what he can and get the hell out of dodge, unless a fellow clan member needs help, but for me, the player, to get to that point, well, that's not a good thing.

Also, I wouldn't have a problem with occasional breaches, but when it gets to the point where it is the same outposts, and it's a continual thing, that is where I have a problem with it.

Quote by: Iriana

I understand your frustration. I play as much as I roleplay and it's annoying, to say the least, to be stranded outside an outpost (especially CC, since it takes forever to hike up there anyways).

But... well, a breach is a breach. It just doesn't seem canonical to be able to strike the monsters blind and sneak in under their noses. I'm not sure your first suggestion fits with this. As for the second, I think it's more about outpost traffic than any particular setting that's making the northern outposts go under all the time; people just don't spend much time up there.

That said, I do like number 3. Breaches are nice for exp if you want a fast DK, but I still don't find them interesting, or useful. Mostly because you don't get the monster descriptions. I don't mind the deluge of monsters; I do mind the deluge of boredom. I love the funny descriptions, and it seems kind of mindless to just be killing descriptionless text blurbs, especially if you get no game value other than exp from them. Plus, it's sad to be the only one fending off inevitable doom. Some incentive to draw more defenders would certainly be nice.

At any rate, you can run from monsters that are too high-level for you; I make use of the Run option quite a bit up at CC these days.

(edit)
An idea has been batted around about having an indicator in the Council Offices to tell which Outposts are breached or about to be, so you could stay away or go fight as you chose. /shrug


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 07:17 AM
By: Harris

Content:

Seems to me that the sudden upswing in outposts being breached coincided with the beginning of many Christmas vacations.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 07:41 AM
By: Silcatra

Content:

A way to know if an outpost is under siege before you go in would be wonderful. I wasted almost half a builder's brew a couple of days ago because I went and mined for a while, carefully rationing stamina so I could also log, then went into the jungle to heal. And since there's no way OUT of the Jungle but through the outpost, I had to go into 404.

404 was under onslaught, and I was attacked. Just RUNNING AWAY took me from 135% stamina to 12% stamina. I could have gotten a LOT of logging done with that, but instead I couldn't do a damn thing.

I'm still pissed about it, to the point I didn't make my own thread because I am still not sure it wouldn't come out an incoherent mess glued together with profanities.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 09:46 AM
By: talkydoor

Content:

I like breaches. The exp is very handy to get over (aargh, aaaaaargh) levels 1 and 2, and I even like watching the descriptions of the outposts change as I fight in the jungle. It makes me feel special.

Also,

Scorpio: How does it look if a new player comes in, starts playing, and attempts the museum quest, only to find out that it's something that is going to take 2 MONTHS to complete simply because one or more outposts is constantly overrun?
I think rookies are automatically opted out until they reach level 10 of their first drive kill, precisely for this reason, so this really isn't an issue unless they delay starting the quest, or somehow manage to progress fast enough for it to become a problem.

Give the game a week. The change in titan and overrunning monster levels very definitely follows the holidays, and we're nearly out of that now. The onslaught and titan modules were developed to make the game more interesting, and in my opinion have definitely done that, even if they do get a bit enthusiastic sometimes.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 10:53 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

talkydoor: I think rookies are automatically opted out until they reach level 10 of their first drive kill, precisely for this reason, so this really isn't an issue unless they delay starting the quest, or somehow manage to progress fast enough for it to become a problem.

Not entirely true, while they are opted out from a breach, the council offices are still closed, which means they cannot compete the museum quest until they manage to hit all the racial outposts while they are in good order. About a month ago I got my oldest son playing, he's playing ratman. Anyway, I sent him off on the museum quest to show him around the island, and when he got to New Pitts, the walls were down far enough that everything, including the council offices were closed.

I'll hold judgement to see how the island is doing in a week or two, but the breaches at this level have made a part of the game unenjoyable for a considerable period of time. I think that some kind of solution should be implemented.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 30 2010 @ 12:35 PM
By: Reverb

Content:

It's important to remember that the Titan and Onslaught modules are self-correcting parts of the game. The outposts are all supposed to fall everyu now and then, and if that happens more or less often than it should, the module will try to fix that by adding or removing monsters from the pool there.

Less traversed outposts (Ace, Pitts and 404 mainly, due to No Steak-syndrome) however, have a bit more trouble keeping up against even the lowest settings, so when the playerbase abruptly changes it's behaviour (by, for instance, massive christmas breaks from playing), it can take some time before the modules catch up to that change.

On the upside, the regulars will all be back next week, and then the module will need about the same amount of time to adjust again, so the forecast for next week is;

Quiet and balmy with occasional spells of blood and gore, and only a mild chance of Breaches.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 31 2010 @ 01:50 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

I by my own choice have elected to forgo playing normally in the past 2 months in order to try to keep Cyber City up. I think of my character as a 404 resident, even though I was never big and still am not big on roleplaying. I hear that Hairy Mary keeps Cantankerous Biggs in Squat Hole most of the time? I do the same with Awesome Fred now for Cyber City.

Obviously, we can't expect players to dedicate themselves forever to just working on keeping a town alive. I enjoy it because I love the idea that I affect the environment that others play in (this is also the reason why I play with the markets with spare money--just because I can). But still, keeping a town up that doesn't have regular traffic is absurdly difficult. Breaches should be a constant threat to a city, not a constant state of a city. As a robot at 100 Reinforcement with 125-135% stamina every day, I still don't make enough walls to be able to hold the city together on my own (not that a single player should be able to stop all breaches, but still, I'd like to be able to keep the city together between waiting for players from other cities).

I really think that the always-breached states for CC404, Squat Hole, AceHigh, and New Pittsburgh are really really un-fun, even with my enthusiasm for the challenge of keeping the cities up. I never feel like my work means much when the city's walls fall down whenever I'm gone for 2 days. (I usually don't play every day--that's a bad habit I don't want to regain.) I was rather discouraged when after all the work of getting CC404 up to 3 million, I logged on a day later to find it all gone, because a Titan had spawned nearby and gotten to it before anyone could deal with it.

My opinion is that the rate walls fall should be watered down, and the rate that monsters rise in the jungle be linear (if it's not already). A certain monsters/minute would be nicer than a self-correcting method that keeps increasing the difficulty of saving cities, because trying to achieve a "balance" of time a city is breached and a city is unbreached isn't realistically fun. Players don't want a city to be down, they want a city to have the potential to be downed if they don't meet a reasonable challenge. (Breach EXP grinders notwithstanding.) I think Titans can have the self-correcting method because it's based on time alive rather than number of cities breached? If that's not right, could someone post the info for how those work?

Before we do a change like that, maybe Scorpio's option 1 would be good. Going straight from Jungle to World makes sense because you can go from World to Jungle. It would mean that players can still quest in a breached outpost without the risk of dying coming out of the Jungle. Lastly, those questers' Jungle fights still decrease the amount of monsters at the Outpost, meaning they helped put a dent in the breach monster number.

I'm not sure I like #3 that much, mostly because I can't think of what that reward should be. If it were cigs, I might just be rolling in them. (Pun not intended.) But that could be good incentive, maybe. But we also thought the Rally might have been suitable incentive to increased Cyber City traffic, eh?

Edit:

The constant falling of Cyber City and New Pittsburgh is not a Holiday Weekend issue. It has been constant. For a long while.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 31 2010 @ 07:07 AM
By: Anonymous

Content:

Quote by: Azhron

Probably now because of the holiday drop in site traffic



Maybe just make the outposts harder to breach or have double reinforcement during the holidays?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 31 2010 @ 07:14 AM
By: Mogar

Content:

I'm in a sort of similar position as Fred with this, I've made Mogar a sort of Cyber City resident. Part of it is because Dan sent me to CC404 for some dumbhead quest thing that won't show up, which I had actually completely forgotten about for a while. So I've been just fighting in the jungles and within the walls, reinforcing them afterward. Here and there when other people show up, I'll do some roleplaying outside the town, or in it when the walls are woking, even though it isn't the thing I'm best at on the island.

But the almost-constant breach state has gotten really old. It was fun for a while, being a Cyber City defender, but not using a bank or getting to buy new stuff while I did have money got to be a pain in the butt. I don't know how the self-correcting thing or whatever it is works, and I didn't know it really existed until now, so I won't whine about it too. Like everyone else, I'm voting that Scorpio's option #1 would be wonderful at a minimum, because I enjoy sleeping at least on the floor somewhere and not just sticking to the jungle and letting time log me off when I don't want to risk a stroll through the breach (and getting a stamina-unboosted New Day inside the jungle when I get back on). I do like #3, though, only getting experience is baloney, although somewhat realistic, since cameras don't hang out in outposts (or do they?). I don't really care if #2 changes or not, though it would make things easier, and (again) bank use'd be nice. If things don't change though, I suppose I'll just keep to the city and get over myself.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 31 2010 @ 08:31 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Oh, by the way. Guys. I "bank" in a threatened outpost by buying Nicotine Gums. eBoy's doesn't close until a full breach, and while you lose a good portion of your money on the resale value of Nicotine Gum, that's better than losing it all on a risky fight.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: December 31 2010 @ 11:17 PM
By: Mogar

Content:

Aha! Excellent idea. Though perhaps investing in an even cheaper item would be more useful, re-selling wise? I also like the outpost's new whopping bunch of health.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 01 2011 @ 09:39 AM
By: Maniak

Content:

As a joker, I bank by buying the cheapest grenades, sell as improbability bombs the next day. Sometimes it even works out better than the interest the bank would give.

The good thing about the nicotine gum is that it's the lightest of all. Buy 80 ratpacks or medkits and your backpack is filled.

BTW Fred, I made a killing buying/selling gum between PV and CC404. I'll send you something as a thanks.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 02 2011 @ 06:13 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Maniak

As a joker, I bank by buying the cheapest grenades, sell as improbability bombs the next day. Sometimes it even works out better than the interest the bank would give.

The good thing about the nicotine gum is that it's the lightest of all. Buy 80 ratpacks or medkits and your backpack is filled.

BTW Fred, I made a killing buying/selling gum between PV and CC404. I'll send you something as a thanks.



Oh, so that was from you! Thanks a bunch, and no problem, I'm already sucking up more of those gums. ;D


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 04 2011 @ 09:55 AM
By: Mr+Geppetto

Content:

I have to partly agree with Scorpio on his one. While I do enjoy the 'free' experience while I'm doing a low rank DK, a breach on a high rank can be a pain in the unmentionables. And having those outposts forever and ever breached (even before the holidays) begins to be irksome. I get that 'oh, no, not aaaagaaaain!' feeling more and more often.

There was, a while ago, another thread on the exact same topic. A huge rise in onslaught happened as soon as dwellings were introduced, since people ran off to build and there was a drop in the number of 'defenders'. It was tweaked down then, I think, and it remained so for a while. (here's the link: http://enquirer.improbableisland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=18&showtopic=12350 ). While I find the self-tweaking system fascinating as a principle, having it 'know' about holidays and long weekends would be even more fascinating, though not in-game coherent. Might do a lot for game enjoyment for a lot of people, though. Maybe.

Other ideas, out of the top of my head: Yes, having an option to see whether an outpost is overrun or not, when standing outside, would be swell. It's not the same as seeing the state of the outposts from the council offices, since by the time you get there from another (not overrun outpost) where you saw the reading it can become overrun or cease to be so. Also, having an option to bypass an overrun outpost as you go from jungle to travel would be neat. Only if it's overrun, so it won't be an easily exploited way to avoid leveling up. Maybe this can be accomplished by buying an item, say a new e-boy item, something like a crate-finder, in principle? A detector that would allow one to see from the jungle that the outpost is overrun and allow you to duck the swarm of monsters and, phew, escape, letting the outpost fend for itself. Or a cheaper and crappier version of the one-shots, allowing one to teleport just outside the city, from the jungle, not further.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 04 2011 @ 10:58 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Mr+Geppetto

Also, having an option to bypass an overrun outpost as you go from jungle to travel would be neat. Only if it's overrun, so it won't be an easily exploited way to avoid leveling up..



I'm not entirely sure how it'd be an exploit to avoid leveling up. Putting off picking a rank is no longer a problem, and I'm sure that the hook to pick a rank is in both the Jungle and the Outpost. The only thing I could see is maybe fighting for lots of money, but then you couldn't bank it anyway. And there's infinitely more efficient ways to get money anyway.

I dunno. I'm just not sure if I see the downside of putting a Travel link from the Jungle for everyone to use all the time. Unless it's not that way to make the game 'harder'.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 01:31 AM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Matthew

Quote by: Mr+Geppetto

Also, having an option to bypass an overrun outpost as you go from jungle to travel would be neat. Only if it's overrun, so it won't be an easily exploited way to avoid leveling up..



I'm not entirely sure how it'd be an exploit to avoid leveling up. Putting off picking a rank is no longer a problem, and I'm sure that the hook to pick a rank is in both the Jungle and the Outpost. The only thing I could see is maybe fighting for lots of money, but then you couldn't bank it anyway. And there's infinitely more efficient ways to get money anyway.

I dunno. I'm just not sure if I see the downside of putting a Travel link from the Jungle for everyone to use all the time. Unless it's not that way to make the game 'harder'.



Not choosing a rank...leveling up. If you don't enter an outpost, you can't get hunted down for truancy. That's what Mr. Geppetto was talking about, I think. Though you can now do that with One-Shots and dwellings, but that's a slightly more expensive way to go about it...


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 01:54 AM
By: Temper

Content:

Oddly enough. I have never once run into a breached outpost. At least, not in recent memory. And I do go to Acehigh on a regular basis, as an impatient Joker who wants to level up. So I don't think Acehigh, at least, is much of a problem. CC404 and New Pitts though, I can't speak of, because I don't usually go to either of those places.


I do like the idea of being able to tell if an outpost is breached from the outside. It makes sense, even if it would drive away some otherwise unwitting helpers in outpost defense.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 03:10 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: tehdave

If you don't enter an outpost, you can't get hunted down for truancy


I'm still not seeing any potential for abuse, here. Why would you ever want to put off levelling up? Lack of access to any outposts would still really limit you and make avoiding truancy pointless.

And if it's that big of a deal, then why not make travelling on the map trigger truancy, too?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 03:52 AM
By: Omega

Content:

Quote by: Matthew

I'm still not seeing any potential for abuse, here. Why would you ever want to put off levelling up?



Well, you see, when you're level one, you can heal for free. For ever.
Say you're playing a bastard rank. And have 2000~ HP. Healing then would cost `i tons`i of money.
But if you try staying at level one, you could survive any battle with 2000HP, heal for free, and then go outside to travel and try to find crates/sleep in a dwelling.


So? We can fix that by adding a truancy check over the travel from jungle button, But why doesn't that happen? My guess is that it will add another hook(More server load) and thus is..Not worth the trouble.

But really, as long as traveling to the jungle from the world map is possible, I don't complain.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 05:32 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

My guess is that it will add another hook(More server load) and thus is..Not worth the trouble.


Sure, and I can see that if this is not addressed very soon, that server load will be going down from the loss of 2 players minimum, more likely 4, and the loss of recommendations for others to come check it out, because I am simply at the end of my rope on this issue.

From what I can see, the only players this is giving any benefit to is the ones that have so many drive kills that their stats are through the roof. So, if this is going to be turned into some private little playground where only the long term and high drive kill players experience any fun out of it, then I'm out, and so is my wife, and a couple of other family members that play.

If the settings on this really badly self-adjusting onslaught module can be cranked down, then they damn well need to be. Otherwise it has become nothing but a replacement for getting fucked over by PVP combat, and I can definitely find something better to do with my time and something more enjoyable to spend my money on.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 07:45 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

I'd add my voice to those who are saying we need a link from the jungle to the world map.

The jungle and the map square are both (in theory) located outside the outpost; it doesn't make any sense that you should have to go through the outpost to get from one to the other in either direction.

I'm pretty sure there isn't any deeply thought-out reason the link isn't there. The basic LotGD game engine is set up that way -- almost by accident -- and I'll bet this is one of the things CMJ hasn't gotten around to changing because it didn't seem to matter. In fact, until onslaught and titans came along, it didn't matter. Yeah, yeah, so you had to take an extra step. Big deal. Not worth changing. But now, it is forcing people to enter breached outposts when they don't want to, and it's doing this often enough to spoil some people's pleasure in the game.

So... now, it matters.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 08:08 AM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Agreed. Also, it's probably time to introduce that new AI engine we were talking about.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 09:14 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Agreed. Also, it's probably time to introduce that new AI engine we were talking about.


This post gave me the shivers.

Also, another thing that I'm actually not sure should be changed is the fact that looking for the Drive in the outpost and not finding it sends you into a potential breach. But maybe it ought to be that way. Drive huntin' is dangerous work!


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 07:07 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Agreed. Also, it's probably time to introduce that new AI engine we were talking about.

Point taken.

One would think hey, how hard could it beeee? Simple bit of navigation like that! But now that I look -- it's, um. Yeah. Non-trivial. If my memory weren't coming to resemble a sieve, I'd have recalled you did mention exactly that, the last time this came up.

EDIT: Wait... actually... Not so hard. "worldmapen" is indeed a tangled mess, but as far as I can tell, this link is only one line added to forest.php. Could be ramifications I haven't thought of, I guess, but it seems to work just fine.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 07:36 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Agreed. Also, it's probably time to introduce that new AI engine we were talking about.

Point taken.

One would think hey, how hard could it beeee? Simple bit of navigation like that! But now that I look -- it's, um. Yeah. Non-trivial. If my memory weren't coming to resemble a sieve, I'd have recalled you did mention exactly that, the last time this came up.



You enter the the warehouse containing the Improbability Drive. It looks down at you with its single, unblinking eye.

"Hello, Teh and Dave."

Aren't they doing a Bastard rank right now?

Oh dear. You prepare for a lot of burny fire.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 07:42 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Agreed. Also, it's probably time to introduce that new AI engine we were talking about.

Point taken.

One would think hey, how hard could it beeee? Simple bit of navigation like that! But now that I look -- it's, um. Yeah. Non-trivial. If my memory weren't coming to resemble a sieve, I'd have recalled you did mention exactly that, the last time this came up.



You enter the the warehouse containing the Improbability Drive. It looks down at you with its single, unblinking eye.

"Hello, Teh and Dave."

Aren't they doing a Bastard rank right now?

Oh dear. You prepare for a lot of burny fire.



What...


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 08:00 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: tehdave

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Agreed. Also, it's probably time to introduce that new AI engine we were talking about.

Point taken.

One would think hey, how hard could it beeee? Simple bit of navigation like that! But now that I look -- it's, um. Yeah. Non-trivial. If my memory weren't coming to resemble a sieve, I'd have recalled you did mention exactly that, the last time this came up.



You enter the the warehouse containing the Improbability Drive. It looks down at you with its single, unblinking eye.

"Hello, Teh and Dave."

Aren't they doing a Bastard rank right now?

Oh dear. You prepare for a lot of burny fire.



What...


(The joke is that the AI is for the Improbability Drive. Also it's a 2001: A Space Odyssey reference. And I thought you were Dave, and the hat was Teh.)


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 09:16 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: tehdave

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Agreed. Also, it's probably time to introduce that new AI engine we were talking about.

Point taken.
One would think hey, how hard could it beeee? Simple bit of navigation like that! But now that I look -- it's, um. Yeah. Non-trivial. If my memory weren't coming to resemble a sieve, I'd have recalled you did mention exactly that, the last time this came up.


You enter the the warehouse containing the Improbability Drive. It looks down at you with its single, unblinking eye.
"Hello, Teh and Dave."
Aren't they doing a Bastard rank right now?
Oh dear. You prepare for a lot of burny fire.


What...


(The joke is that the AI is for the Improbability Drive. Also it's a 2001: A Space Odyssey reference. And I thought you were Dave, and the hat was Teh.)



Ahh...wasn't sure if you meant the AI was haywire and just called people the wrong names or what...

The more memorable line being "I can't let you do that, Dave" threw me off... Confused


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 05 2011 @ 09:35 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: tehdave

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: tehdave

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Agreed. Also, it's probably time to introduce that new AI engine we were talking about.

Point taken.
One would think hey, how hard could it beeee? Simple bit of navigation like that! But now that I look -- it's, um. Yeah. Non-trivial. If my memory weren't coming to resemble a sieve, I'd have recalled you did mention exactly that, the last time this came up.


You enter the the warehouse containing the Improbability Drive. It looks down at you with its single, unblinking eye.
"Hello, Teh and Dave."
Aren't they doing a Bastard rank right now?
Oh dear. You prepare for a lot of burny fire.


What...


(The joke is that the AI is for the Improbability Drive. Also it's a 2001: A Space Odyssey reference. And I thought you were Dave, and the hat was Teh.)



Ahh...wasn't sure if you meant the AI was haywire and just called people the wrong names or what...


There was also that.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 07 2011 @ 03:19 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

Not sure if anything has been changed yet, or if it is just a few people getting together and doing something about it, but CC is open for the moment, not strong walls, but at least walls, and a bank for the first time in what must be months. Still looking forward to that jump directly from jungle to travel.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 06 2011 @ 07:07 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Agreed. Also, it's probably time to introduce that new AI engine we were talking about.


Thank you, I'll hold off for a short while before deleting my character to see how this does.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 06 2011 @ 07:11 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Cyber City had passed 3 million HP recently thanks to some dedicated individuals. The next day, I had logged on and found that at 2.5 million HP, the Onslaught text was at maximum (with the bank closed) and so I spent at least 6 days fighting in the jungle, somewhat near 100 monsters each day. When I had stopped, the text changed nothing, but it was early in the morning, so I went to sleep.

I have 12 Chronospheres so while I thought I was going to spend the rest of my Chronos in the morning, I ended up being too busy and then got engaged into a Minecraft project, so I now come back about 4 days later.

The city is breached and at 3k-3.5k monsters. Is 4 days really a good amount of time to expect walls falling from 2.5 million to a breach with 3000 monsters? I'm not talking just about the numerical rate which the Onslaught increases. I'm talking about the number of people going to the outpost and staying to fight in it. We should have a intended ballpark of player population in each Outpost, I think, and look at the problem from that angle too.

Maybe there should simply be free money to anyone who comes into Cyber City. Should cause a large amount of people going to Cyber City, right? Neutral

I'm actually going to give up on Cyber City myself soon if I don't get a change of heart. I have 240 game days spent on this DK, and maybe I should just resume gaining stats.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 06 2011 @ 07:20 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Is 4 days really a good amount of time to expect walls falling from 2.5 million to a breach with 3000 monsters?


Given that I've seen titans spawn like three squares away from it... Yeah. The last time I went up there to with a breach, I'd just gotten the walls to 1.xx million HP when a titan smashed through them. Wasted 2k req and a builder's brew. When it's got 3000 monsters, three titans heading towards it, and there's three people (one of whom is a Joker with really bad combat stats for the day) with a collective 20DKs trying to fix it... Kittania looks really comfy.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 06 2011 @ 07:48 AM
By: Maniak

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Kittania looks really comfy.



Yeah, this is one thing that irks me. While other outposts have fallen, or are about too, Kittania is always busy. Always more than 100+ pages of story, teeming with life. Monsters should swarm to the busiest outposts, not the weakest. I don't know how the algorithm works, but I hope this new AI system takes into account the number of people currently inside the outpost or something.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 06 2011 @ 08:00 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Maniak

Quote by: Beeps

Kittania looks really comfy.



Yeah, this is one thing that irks me. While other outposts have fallen, or are about too, Kittania is always busy. Always more than 100+ pages of story, teeming with life. Monsters should swarm to the busiest outposts, not the weakest. I don't know how the algorithm works, but I hope this new AI system takes into account the number of people currently inside the outpost or something.


I'd mentioned this at one point, too. Of course, there's always the Titans, who need twenty people with 10 DKs and four chronospheres, or two veterans to take down. I guess that's the evening point - One man can take out a titan, but you need a crowd to repair a city.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 06 2011 @ 08:38 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

And the penalty of a Titan not being taken down is to make it harder to repair the city.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 06 2011 @ 08:58 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

And the penalty of a Titan not being taken down is to make it harder to repair the city.


Right, I'm just saying they're two sides of the "Keeping an outpost available" coin. One person with 300 DKs can't keep a city up by themselves. Thirty barely-not-rookies can't take down a Titan.
Of course, it's also harder to herd cats than to lead one bloodhound.
...Where is this analogy going?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 06 2011 @ 07:21 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

The current system is designed to respond to players' actions; it treats "players" as if they were a single unit. The unspoken assumption written into the code seems to be, "Well, if they aren't cooperating, they ought to be, so let's set this up to be an incentive to get them cooperating."

Trouble is, it doesn't work. One high-powered player can and intentionally does run the titan hit-points up at times to a point where they're a challenge even for him. And the spawn rate seems to be tied to the level of player activity -- no, I haven't looked, but I've noticed you can generally count on there being more titans on a weekend. In combination, this means the Island is periodically going to be flooded with 8+ mil titans.

It's no use scowling at that one player; if a game's design makes it possible to optimize and get really amazing at doing something, it's not reasonable to get mad at someone for doing it. No, not even if it's causing problems for other players. Compare -- for those who remember it -- PvP in Season One. The solution has to be in the game design, not in exerting pressure on someone not to play the game the way he has quite legitimately shaped his character to play.

(As I found recently, even a veteran with the req and cigs for anything Sheila sells can't switch titan-fighting modes. With enough chronospheres and time I can eventually take down any titan just mashing the 1 key... and that's how I normally want to do it. Good fighting practice, you know. But I cannot switch into a "biff, baff, that one's swatted, now where's the next one?" mode, not even with an elephant gun. For that I'd have had to re-shape my character quite differently over a long period of time.)


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 06 2011 @ 07:52 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

The current system is designed to respond to players' actions; it treats "players" as if they were a single unit. The unspoken assumption written into the code seems to be, "Well, if they aren't cooperating, they ought to be, so let's set this up to be an incentive to get them cooperating."

Trouble is, it doesn't work. One high-powered player can and intentionally does run the titan hit-points up at times to a point where they're a challenge even for him. And the spawn rate seems to be tied to the level of player activity -- no, I haven't looked, but I've noticed you can generally count on there being more titans on a weekend. In combination, this means the Island is periodically going to be flooded with 8+ mil titans.

It's no use scowling at that one player; if a game's design makes it possible to optimize and get really amazing at doing something, it's not reasonable to get mad at someone for doing it. No, not even if it's causing problems for other players. Compare -- for those who remember it -- PvP in Season One. The solution has to be in the game design, not in exerting pressure on someone not to play the game the way he has quite legitimately shaped his character to play.

(As I found recently, even a veteran with the req and cigs for anything Sheila sells can't switch titan-fighting modes. With enough chronospheres and time I can eventually take down any titan just mashing the 1 key... and that's how I normally want to do it. Good fighting practice, you know. But I cannot switch into a "biff, baff, that one's swatted, now where's the next one?" mode, not even with an elephant gun. For that I'd have had to re-shape my character quite differently over a long period of time.)


Don't get me wrong, I'm not holding people who can take on the titans in contempt. More, I was trying to say that the current system seems to have "roles" (as you sort of mentioned here, given that there are 'builds' for Titan-slaying).

However, while we have several people whose chosen task is to hunt titans, we don't have a collection of wandering bands of liberators, mostly because to be effective, this requires a unified team effort by a task force of people with the same free-time schedules. Even if everyone in a clan devoted themselves to keeping outposts up, unless they're on at the same time, working together, they'll have little success in actually reclaiming an outpost. It's very easy to organize a single person to clear out Titans, and Jakell's done a fantastic job of it, though he's but one man (or Titan-slaying god-king). When someone has a vested interest in an outpost, they usually try to organize a group to reclaim it, but it's generally a one-time thing. The only thing you can try to do to make a 'build' for keeping outposts clear is fighting monsters, so you can fight monsters... more? Jokers have the best chance for having a build that actually allows them to create a 6-mile monster-free zone around an outpost by themselves, but this is entirely luck, per day. The alternative is, of course, not letting the outposts get too overrun in the first place, but as Fred's mentioned, a single person still can't handle this on their own usually. It's not just a matter of traffic in the outpost, but also enticing people to battle when they get there, which can be hard for the unskilled labor portion of the user base, who may be out of stamina from the trip alone.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 07 2011 @ 03:39 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

While I'm at this, would it be at all possible to either change the point in the alert status where the banks close, or even put in some form of deposit only mechanism that has the same close level status as say eboys and shielas, something along the lines of an improbable drop box? That is my other main gripe, and it is shared by (even more so actually) my wife, who plays Silverwind.

That way, even with an outpost being breached there is some way to deposit req and not loose it due to stumbling into a breached outpost.

I know it can be done, at least in some form. There is a LotGD mod out there based on Harry Potter that has a system to deposit even when you are fighting in the jungle.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 02:44 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

Apparently nothing has changed yet, less than 24 hours and CC is down again, completely breached.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 03:00 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Scorpio

Apparently nothing has changed yet, less than 24 hours and CC is down again, completely breached.



Give it time. Changing things and fixing things takes a while, especially when there's six days in twenty four hours. CMJ's been swamped with the weather system these days, and it looks like there are more server issues stumbling about in the background.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:03 AM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Scorpio

Apparently nothing has changed yet, less than 24 hours and CC is down again, completely breached.



Give it time. Changing things and fixing things takes a while, especially when there's six days in twenty four hours. CMJ's been swamped with the weather system these days, and it looks like there are more server issues stumbling about in the background.



This. It will take time.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:15 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Scorpio

Apparently nothing has changed yet, less than 24 hours and CC is down again, completely breached.



Give it time. Changing things and fixing things takes a while, especially when there's six days in twenty four hours. CMJ's been swamped with the weather system these days, and it looks like there are more server issues stumbling about in the background.



This. It will take time.


Thank you for the update, and I can understand that it'll take a bit of time. Hopefully whatever happened that took the server down around 09:00 GMT overnight didn't put you too far behind on getting things done. I'll wait as patiently as I can, and I look forward to seeing the changes when they are rolled out.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:25 AM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

You know what, on second thoughts fuck it. The Onslaught system is fundamentally flawed, I don't think there's a way to make it work, and it's brought me nowt but arse-ache. I've got more important things to work on than trying to patch this thing so that Outposts never fall - 'cause if they do fall, they tend to stay fallen.

Taking a vote on its deletion now.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:28 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Goodness!

What would replace it? Anything? Would outposts just... not be breached, now? Would there be any point to walls? What about Titans? What threat would they present?

Maybe a system where monsters are only able to flood an outpost if a Titan knocks the walls down, first?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:31 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

My, this is a drastic solution. One that solves the problem, but drastic nonetheless.

Total deletion seems harsh. Perhaps... Deactivated, pending overhaul?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:33 AM
By: Fox+Kelfonne

Content:

Why not make it so the Titans only reduce the walls by the amount of their remaining HP instead of being an instant kill?

I know Kittania had its Wall HP up in the 43 Million range at one point, and got wrecked by a Titan over the holidays.

That way, people who can't fight directly can still assist in the defense of an outpost from Titans?
Also it'd take care of situations where people ARE fighting the Titan, but just can't pull the victory out. If the walls are that strong, you would think they could hold off the Titan long enough for the guards to be not-quite-so-useless. After all, by all accounts, the wall-guards should be contestants as well, and should be able to fight jungle monsters the same way we can.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:35 AM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Quote by: Matthew

Goodness!

What would replace it? Anything? Would outposts just... not be breached, now? Would there be any point to walls? What about Titans? What threat would they present?

Maybe a system where monsters are only able to flood an outpost if a Titan knocks the walls down, first?



There wouldn't be any point to walls, and Titans would likely go out the window too. In their place, I'd have more time to write quests and roleplaying content.

One of the hard things I've had to learn is that co-operative content in a text-adventure is always pretty much going to suck. If it's based on combat, it'll suck because text-based combat has always sucked (that'll change in Season Three!). If it's based on sheer numbers of players up against sheer numbers of other players (or sheer numbers of monsters or what-have-you), then it's a game by spreadsheet, and it's gonna suck.

I was toying with the idea of forcing the system to only ever allow Outposts to become nearly breached, and then to make it seem like the players drove back the horde - but that's not gonna work, 'cause the moment someone finds out that that's how it's programmed, it'll become pointless. One of the very first things every programmer learns (or should learn) is when he's wasting his time, and trying to fix this thing to the point where folks can live with it and not have the system secretly cheat in the players' favour really is a waste of time.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:36 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Fox+Kelfonne

Why not make it so the Titans only reduce the walls by the amount of their remaining HP instead of being an instant kill?

I know Kittania had its Wall HP up in the 43 Million range at one point, and got wrecked by a Titan over the holidays.

That way, people who can't fight directly can still assist in the defense of an outpost from Titans?
Also it'd take care of situations where people ARE fighting the Titan, but just can't pull the victory out. If the walls are that strong, you would think they could hold off the Titan long enough for the guards to be not-quite-so-useless. After all, by all accounts, the wall-guards should be contestants as well, and should be able to fight jungle monsters the same way we can.


I do agree with this. The fact that a titan can wipe out an outpost regardless of HP is annoying. Something to consider if you were to work on it idly.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:44 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Vote yes to SUSPENSION until we figure out what to do with it. I don't support total deletion, understand if it happens though.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:48 AM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Vote yes to SUSPENSION until we figure out what to do with it. I don't support total deletion, understand if it happens though.



Well, on the one hand, nothing is ever really deleted until my hard drive dies along with all my backups.

On the other hand, suspension means deletion. If I take this off the Island and there's a huge sigh of relief, then there's gonna be fucking uproar if I propose bringing it back.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:50 AM
By: Marly

Content:

Okay, so this is me when I read the poll in MOTD the first time: Oh goody, I won't have to unbreach CC404 3 times in 4 hours if it goes again.

This is me the second time I read it: Oh, shit, it'll take forever to get EXP to DK now. ...Oh well, small price to pay to actually use the outpost.

Third time's the charm, of course, reading CAREFULLY through it: No... titans?

CMJ, you say there's no way to scale it back that will help it. I believe you 100%, especially after those 4 hours I spent. I gotta cast my vote that the onslaught part should go. But do the titans really have to leave, too? I mean, that's pretty much the only way I can get an appreciable sum of EXP for standard fighting. And it's good cash and my hat can stand to be more amazing, Deimos tells me.

I like titans. They go stomp stomp and give me shineys.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:53 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Well... I'm gonna throw my name in the hat for suspension, as well. I'd rather not Titans and Onslaught go away forever the end, because I find the latter occasionally fun (if frustrating when Cyber City is under invasion 90%) and the Titans a barrel of fun sometimes.
And think of what poor Jakell will have to do with his time when there's no more Titans! Though if he played it up in-character as him having driven the Titans to extinction, I would [i]totally[/i] support that. Guy deserves it.

As they are now, though, they're worth looking over, definitely.

Quote by: Marly

No... titans?


Thing is- with no Onslaught, what would Titans do? I love TItans, maybe they should stay, but have some other purpose... besides just being wandering req-pinatas.

I dunno what that would be, though.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:53 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

I do see people not wanting to lose Titans. Maybe - Again, as an alternative to completely deleting everything, as a "eventually" project - make it so that at any given time, there are Titans simply wandering the island?

That step on Supply Crates because they don't realize they're there? It would give some incentive to stop them.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 05:53 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

That's a good point, but I thought the problem with it was that it suffered a vicious cycle idea. The ones that don't stay up can't get back up, the ones that stay up stay up. The issue wasn't cooperation, the issue was just setup. The challenge to overcome the hordes can and was at times fun, and there was at times cooperation successfully. It's not a lost cause, it's just a mechanic with too many issues for now.

You can have an MOTD vote to bring it back at a later date, it doesn't have to be an uproar. I have faith in the players. Razz

EDIT

The poll's at 14/14 right now, and I think it really does look like people don't want to get rid of Titans while not so much minding the loss of Onslaught.

My personal opinion's to not get rid of Reinforcement, I like that as a concept.

My quickie proposition is to remove monster numbers, and have Titans take down a flat numerical amount of wall HP equal to the remaining health of the titan when they arrive at the outpost (and does it again on each hour that it's still not killed while above a city). That way, walls and reinforcement exist, and titans exist, but places don't get Breached easily. When places are breached, it should just be like a flat number of mobs (500?) that need to be killed before the city can be raised again?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 06:01 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

That step on Supply Crates because they don't realize they're there? It would give some incentive to stop them.


If crate drops weren't directly tied into the amount of real life money donated to the Island, I'd be okay with this.

But- no. I can't say I like that idea in the least.

edit: So, yeah. Popular opinion, so far, seems to be nixing onslaught but keeping some incarnation of Titans.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 06:03 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

As anyone could guess, I voted to dump it.

Let me toss out an idea for an onslaught system change though, because, again, I don't mind outposts going down occasionally, just not going down and staying down continuously. So, anyway, what about some timer tied to the real world clock, say an outpost is breached by onslaught, this sets the timer and disallows the onslaught system from spawning monsters around that outpost until a certain amount of time has passed. Not sure how difficult it would be to integrate into the existing system, but the coding of it shouldn't be too hard, something along the lines of an if statement hooked into a table lookup that stores a do not touch date, or a last fall date, something along that line. It would still allow for titans, and the building of walls, but would give the outposts periods of lucid sanity where you could actually go bank your req and not have to cross your fingers every single time you clicked a return to outpost.

Of course that would still leave a real need for a travel link within the jungle, and I still think it would be a wonderful idea to be able to deposit req on the fly, even if the outpost is breached.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 06:08 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

I'd like to also thank you, Scorpio, for bringing this up in the forums. Onslaught really has been getting to be a problem, and it's also heartening to see that CMJ is a highly responsive developer when it comes to problems in his game.

Not that I already knew that about CMJ. Wink

I voted for the "scrap it" too, because I'd rather it be taken down and reimplemented better later than have it up while trying to fix it.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 06:11 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Matthew

Quote by: Beeps

That step on Supply Crates because they don't realize they're there? It would give some incentive to stop them.


If crate drops weren't directly tied into the amount of real life money donated to the Island, I'd be okay with this.

But- no. I can't say I like that idea in the least.

edit: So, yeah. Popular opinion, so far, seems to be nixing onslaught but keeping some incarnation of Titans.



The idea wasn't that they would knowingly go for the crates, or that they would consistently remove them. If a new system continued to have a "They appear to be headed (Northwest)!" indication, anyone close enough could easily scour the area in front of them and clear a path. The idea was mostly so that they weren't just odd bits of scenery that you could attack. That said, the req payoffs may be enough incentive.

The destruction could also explain why there was still a reward for taking them down. Rewarding killing giant creatures who seem happy just wandering harmlessly around doesn't make much sense to me.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 06:15 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Honestly, while it doesn't do my desire of keeping Reinforcement relevant, having higher-health Titans as just odd bits of scenery with the reward money only coming when it's killed seems like a decent way of keeping them in. Titans are big, can be community challenges (if the LotGD coding for Attack/Defense/HP wasn't so imbalanced so that strong players can solo while weak players can't earn 0.1 req), and be periodic but not constant rewards of money.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 06:22 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

My quickie proposition is to remove monster numbers, and have Titans take down a flat numerical amount of wall HP equal to the remaining health of the titan when they arrive at the outpost (and does it again on each hour that it's still not killed while above a city). That way, walls and reinforcement exist, and titans exist, but places don't get Breached easily. When places are breached, it should just be like a flat number of mobs (500?) that need to be killed before the city can be raised again?

This is a promising notion! I would rather not see Titans become extinct; the joint-combat feature is very cool. I'd miss them.

Scorpio, in my localhost system I've tested a travel link from the jungle that's simple and seems to work fine. I may have missed seeing some reason it's actually more complicated than that, though.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 07:43 AM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

I, personally, absolutely LOVE onslaught, especially breaches. It is far and away my favorite part of the gameplay. I love the frenetic pace, the crap shoot that is what level monster i'll get, everything. Absolute loads of fun. I'd be heartbroken to see it disappear. Do I have a solution that'll keep everyone happy? No. Do I have a solution that'll keep me happy? Yep. Up the rate at which monsters enter the outpost. Crank it through the ceiling. That seems to be the opposite of what you're going for, though...


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 07:47 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

I love Onslaught in Improbable Central. I hate it in CC404.

That is its problem.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 08:05 AM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Ooh, I just had an idea that might make me and everyone else happyish...


What if when one outpost fell, the monsters that are attacking other ones quit and went to the breached one? It would make breached outposts more difficult to clear out, but it would also push players towards working together more, since all the defenders would also end up concentrated there?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 08:10 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: dizzyizzy

Ooh, I just had an idea that might make me and everyone else happyish...


What if when one outpost fell, the monsters that are attacking other ones quit and went to the breached one? It would make breached outposts more difficult to clear out, but it would also push players towards working together more, since all the defenders would also end up concentrated there?



If I might offer a similar-but-different suggestion?

Rather than shutting the town down, have the onslaught be the other way around. Have waves of monsters in the jungle. When players aren't keeping the monster count down, the city defenders have a harder time keeping up. The worse it gets, the more likely to have stronger monsters and longer waves. The rookie opt-out would keep the waves to the level of the player, and the waves to single monsters.

Of course, this idea sounds like a shitload of code.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 08:14 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Making breached outposts more difficult to clear out would do the total opposite of solving the problem. We want to be able to access Cyber City and New Pittsburgh.

And the theory falls short of what we've seen, which is that players will abandon that one city instead of hope that they can coordinate their efforts to take them down.

Remember, most titans aren't taken down by a group effort, but key badass veteran players.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 08:17 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Making breached outposts more difficult to clear out would do the total opposite of solving the problem. We want to be able to access Cyber City and New Pittsburgh.

And the theory falls short of what we've seen, which is that players will abandon that one city instead of hope that they can coordinate their efforts to take them down.

Remember, most titans aren't taken down by a group effort, but key badass veteran players.


Sorry, let me clarify - I mean that the jungle monsters are more difficult and come in waves. The thing people are saying they'd miss is the ability to slog through 60 monsters of a random level. So without proper population control, the jungles are swarming with monsters, possibly more difficult (with matching rewards), but the outposts are left intact. It's just dangerous to go outside.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 08:37 AM
By: Iriana

Content:

I only have nine DKs, so I'm not at the point where I need breaches to grind XP and I've never even made a scratch on a Titan. Well, maybe a very small one. But of course then the Titan squished me.

I think I posted this earlier--breaches bore me because there's nothing to read. I feel like I'm fighting for empty numbers, since there are no monster descriptions, and it seems kind of pointless to be whaling away at a Level 17 monster when I don't even get to see what I'm fighting. Titans don't interest me because I know I can't even make a dent. Outposts under siege are an annoyance rather than a challenge--the banks seem to be perpetually closed up north and I don't have the chronos or stats to single-handedly open them up again.

This is because I don't have the equipment and experience that many of the veteran breach-breakers do. People with many DKs and people with two must feel very differently about Onslaught and Titans--I feel like Onslaught could be fun, but it's not for everyone. I wish I had some concrete suggestions, but I'm afraid I don't. I voted to scrap it, partly because I can't come up with a way to make it better and so far it looks like it's not working as well as we'd all like.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 08:55 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Making breached outposts more difficult to clear out would do the total opposite of solving the problem. We want to be able to access Cyber City and New Pittsburgh.

And the theory falls short of what we've seen, which is that players will abandon that one city instead of hope that they can coordinate their efforts to take them down.

Remember, most titans aren't taken down by a group effort, but key badass veteran players.


Sorry, let me clarify - I mean that the jungle monsters are more difficult and come in waves. The thing people are saying they'd miss is the ability to slog through 60 monsters of a random level. So without proper population control, the jungles are swarming with monsters, possibly more difficult (with matching rewards), but the outposts are left intact. It's just dangerous to go outside.



Sorry, Beeps, my reply was meant to be targeted towards Dizzyizzy's.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 08:59 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Ah, I see. I think her idea does still have some merit - It means that one outpost would be swamped, but you'd no longer have issues with Acehigh, CC4040, New Pittsburgh, and Squat Hole being under attack at once. The only problem with it that I see is what happens when another outpost is breached? All the monsters in the current one vanish, leaving everyone who was defending it looking baffled.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 09:28 AM
By: Sydney++Fletcher

Content:

I think I'm in pretty much the same boat as most everyone else. I could live perfectly happily without Onslaught, but I would be sorry to see the Titans go. Admittedly I don't really do much to help take them down, and I do think they can get super overwhelming and super high-hitpointed at times, but it is pretty neat to have giant beasties wandering the Island and to be able to fight them with friends. I think I would be perfectly happy if they only kept giving you req, and maybe Hall o'Fame TITAN SLAYER points for bragging purposes. No need to have 'em go after outposts at all.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 09:30 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Sydney++Fletcher

I think I'm in pretty much the same boat as most everyone else. I could live perfectly happily without Onslaught, but I would be sorry to see the Titans go. Admittedly I don't really do much to help take them down, and I do think they can get super overwhelming and super high-hitpointed at times, but it is pretty neat to have giant beasties wandering the Island and to be able to fight them with friends. I think I would be perfectly happy if they only kept giving you req, and maybe Hall o'Fame TITAN SLAYER points for bragging purposes. No need to have 'em go after outposts at all.


This does seem to be the general consensus. A few ideas have been put out there for ways to change the breach mechanics, but they all sound like they'd be a bigger hassle than the current big project on the table, and none of them are definite solutions.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 09:43 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Iriana

People with many DKs and people with two must feel very differently about Onslaught and Titans


This is actually a very good point. Breaches might have "FREE EXP!" written all over them to veterans (I'll admit, I'll be sad to lose the source of exp-flowing-like-water if Onslaught goes, but I think the benefits really outweigh that) but it's outright dangerous and just frustrating to most players. Doubly-so because it just feels so arbitrary.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 09:47 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

This was why I suggested the "rampaging monsters in the jungle" idea - To try to make it so long-time players still have something they can rely on for the mechanic that's in flux.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 10:19 AM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Ah, I see. I think her idea does still have some merit - It means that one outpost would be swamped, but you'd no longer have issues with Acehigh, CC4040, New Pittsburgh, and Squat Hole being under attack at once. The only problem with it that I see is what happens when another outpost is breached? All the monsters in the current one vanish, leaving everyone who was defending it looking baffled.



His. His idea.

And I don't think it'd be baffling...

As soon as one goes down, there could be a bit of flavor text like "a fierce call carries over the wind, and the monsters attacking the wall turn and rush off towards *fill in outpost that has been breeched*."

Except better written.


But that's all besides the point. The main issue here is is my username really that girly?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 10:23 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Well. There's another Dizzy on the island that I believe is female, and my ex's user name was Dizzy. It didn't occur to me until just now that it was Dizzy, an adjective, Izzy. Sorry about that.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 10:26 AM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Well. There's another Dizzy on the island that I believe is female, and my ex's user name was Dizzy. It didn't occur to me until just now that it was Dizzy, an adjective, Izzy. Sorry about that.



Actually, that female dizzy may have been me. I did a couple dk's as a girlie. And no real offense taken.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 10:27 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: dizzyizzy

Quote by: Beeps

Well. There's another Dizzy on the island that I believe is female, and my ex's user name was Dizzy. It didn't occur to me until just now that it was Dizzy, an adjective, Izzy. Sorry about that.



Actually, that female dizzy may have been me. I did a couple dk's as a girlie. And no real offense taken.


Well, that doesn't help, now does it? Razz


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 10:34 AM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Not really.

But, back on topic, does what I'm proposing make sense?

The way I see it, the monsters would flock to one outpost that's already down instead of spreading out their assault.

Personally, I would fight in breaches more, but I don't want to spend the stam/one shot finding out if somewhere's breached. there's probably more people like me out there, so adding the warn level to the council offices would get me out there fighting.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 10:39 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: dizzyizzy

Not really.

But, back on topic, does what I'm proposing make sense?

The way I see it, the monsters would flock to one outpost that's already down instead of spreading out their assault.

Personally, I would fight in breaches more, but I don't want to spend the stam/one shot finding out if somewhere's breached. there's probably more people like me out there, so adding the warn level to the council offices would get me out there fighting.


I do agree that making it so that there's a limited number of outposts under siege at any given point would be helpful. That said, having only one outpost breached doesn't make it any easier to find out what place is breached. I believe Cousjava was working on a module for the council offices, but that's sort of a separate thing.
What I was asking is, how do you determine which outpost is down? What happens to an outpost under attack when a different outpost becomes the newest 'down' outpost? Given that the problem isn't that multiple outposts are down but that CC404 is almost always down, does this solve the problem?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 10:40 AM
By: acheron

Content:

could certain outposts which are more often overwhelmed have a reduced monster population? I figure that the monsters would hang out where their foodsource (contestants) can be found so there would be fewer monsters needing subduing outside commonly-empty outposts such as CC404, which would reduce their chances of being breached as well as allowing New Home and Kittania some sense of danger, as they now get a denser monster population banging on the doors.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 10:48 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: acheron

could certain outposts which are more often overwhelmed have a reduced monster population? I figure that the monsters would hang out where their foodsource (contestants) can be found so there would be fewer monsters needing subduing outside commonly-empty outposts such as CC404, which would reduce their chances of being breached as well as allowing New Home and Kittania some sense of danger, as they now get a denser monster population banging on the doors.


I think I'd mentioned this in another thread about the same issue, and I think that the new AI may have had something to do with this. But that's speculation. One thing I thought it may be difficult to do was getting a good idea of how many players are in a city for the city's benefit. Say fifteen people are in CC404 - ten of them may just be there to pick up stone.

Someone mentioned (I think it was in Banter) that the system had been put in to try to increase traffic to these locations by making them need assistance. Making it easier for them because they don't get traffic seems to go against the very purpose of the system.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 11:25 AM
By: Maniak

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Making it easier for them because they don't get traffic seems to go against the very purpose of the system.



The system itself is flawed. CC404 is probably the least visited place, in need of most help. When there are 7 other outposts to choose from, guess what's gonna happen if it goes down? This is the internet. People are selfish and there are no repercussions if you leave to Kittania.

Proposed fixes:

a) Link the Onslaught to the people currently in the Outpost. This will center it around the most populated outposts, NewHome Kittania and Improbable Central. There are enough fighting people there to keep it safe. This might be a problem if player numbers are inflated by pure RP'ers and non-fighting alts, but I personally doubt the severity of that.

b) Wall hitpoints should fall the amount of health the Titan has left once it reaches the outpost. Titans were originally made to warn a Breach was coming. Right now, Titans arrive at CC404 which already has a high threat level, and they're the final nail in the coffin. This is a double-breach mechanism. Walls don't do much for the outlying posts when a titan can spawn less than 4 clicks away. Make walls more useful, and close the bank at lower than 1m hitpoints, the bar at 500k. Anyone from Rookie to Veteran can build a wall, and it'll have a direct impact. It's more community driven than soloing a Titan.

c) Breach is popular only among those high on the DK-ladder, because the grind away from level 1 takes ages. Breach isn't popular because of the fallen Outpost, but because of the exp. The amount of monsters you need to kill at level one goes up by 1 each DK. At DK 50 that's becoming boring. As far as removing Breach itself, that's fine. To negate the cries of those that like the exp grind, either chance the leveling ladder, or give normal exp in the Nightmare court. The way it scales up is perfect. Most of the buffs only last a limited number of rounds and the monster resets to level 1 upon entering, so gargleblasting your way in shouldn't give too much of an unfair advantage.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 11:43 AM
By: SicPuess

Content:

I say, scrap it. For the moment - not completely.

Thing is, Onslaught has been active for a year now, Titans for a little less - the novelty of it had worn off after a couple of weeks, and I'd say pretty much everyone is accustomed to it now, whether they ignore it (as I do) or are active fighters. It's not new, it's not exciting, it's just annoying for reasons others have explained in quite well-thought-out essays. I'd say that there ought to be some heads among the monsters to decide, /no/, it's /enough/, it's not working. We can have a truce - an uneasy one, of course, as our combattants on either side continue to slaughter each other in one-on-one fights. We could then, hmn - use the Titan mechanic to set up an "Regular Army Of Jungle Inhabitants" as a monster, complete with creature AI like the infamous test server variety of the Blonde Heiress, every once in a while.

Or spies on either side, sabotagers (oh, Kittania's Shack o'Shiny has had its stock of all ammo-based weaponry stolen! One-shots from PV don't work today, they've been gremlin'd! An EMP was set off, all robot-monsters massively debuffed around Kittania now! NO BOOZE IN SQUAT ALL HELL IS BREAKING LOOSE. You could have the midget population turn into Breach-like encounters. Ahmn, should I stop? Probably.)

Which sounds, frankly, like some amount of fun, for some serious amount of work - I don't know. The easier solution would be to just turn off Onslaught for a month, then have it return for a couple of days, turn it off again in irregular intervals, warnings optional. And by warning, I mean broadcasts from the council offices to all outposts.. something like "shit's about to get real in IC everone git there" appended to the town description, much like the current threat levels.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 09:36 PM
By: Zpatula

Content:

This problem has driven me from the game. I was late in a quest cycle in Squat Hole, which was CONSTANTLY breeched. No fun at all. I left for a few days, came back, still breeched. A few days go by - still breeched. A week later - still breeched. I gave up on the quest and started a new cycle in Ace High. Breeched. BAH!

Scrap the whole bloody thing!


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 03:23 AM
By: kage

Content:

I will add that as a new player (started at the end of December over the holiday) I have yet to see CC404 not under attack. Haven't been able to finish my museum quest, and it's been about 2 weeks. A bit frustrating. I actually went and did the DK instead (eventually). It got old fighting monsters at CC404 only to step back and see I was making no progress at all and had no help.

I like the idea of the random-cycling the breaches. Might make things pretty interesting, and I think knowing eventually the monsters "get bored and wander off because there's no one there to terrorize" would fit.

Maybe there could be a hole-in-the wall town/dive/foodstop between CC and Kit? Something so I don't waste all my stamina getting to CC only to find it breached and then spend the rest running like a chicken so I don't end up on the Failboat?


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 03:38 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

I'd like to also thank you, Scorpio, for bringing this up in the forums. Onslaught really has been getting to be a problem, and it's also heartening to see that CMJ is a highly responsive developer when it comes to problems in his game.

Not that I already knew that about CMJ. Wink



Thanks, and I'll definitely agree on both of those points. I've played other online games where there was no real response from any of the admins to anything. That is a part of what makes this game so special, and why I brought it up rather than just saying to hell with it and going my own way.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 03:42 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Scorpio, in my localhost system I've tested a travel link from the jungle that's simple and seems to work fine. I may have missed seeing some reason it's actually more complicated than that, though.


Thanks Sessine, it would be awesome to see that implemented. I've not looked at the codebase, and probably couldn't fully understand it if I did, but it's bound to be large and rather complex, so even a minor change always has the possibility of interacting with something else negatively, so hopefully it doesn't have any problems.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 10 2011 @ 11:26 AM
By: Raidur

Content:

I think the options I'd suggest would be to increase player activity in those other outposts. For example, people congregate in NewHome because its where they started out and where all rookies start. IC is a central city and has the PSK and other handy shops. Kittania and PV have excellent steaks. What do the others have... NP has... zombies.. and brains... woo hoo. The food is crap for all races, so nobody fights there. Same for Squat, its got the skronky pot and the whorehouse, but they really arent good reasons to go there. Ace... has cake.. thats about it, no food, just the one a day cake. CC... has nothing. Perhaps install a cafe in Ace and CC, that way there is some way to refill stamina (One of the major reasons I don't hang about those two outposts), and the other thing thats always bothered me, perhaps make the outpost food better for that specific race. I always wondered why a zombie eating brains got the same effect as a human or kittymorph doing such.

Just my two cents at any rate.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 10 2011 @ 10:00 PM
By: acheron

Content:

Quote by: Maniak
b) Wall hitpoints should fall the amount of health the Titan has left once it reaches the outpost. Titans were originally made to warn a Breach was coming. Right now, Titans arrive at CC404 which already has a high threat level, and they're the final nail in the coffin. This is a double-breach mechanism. Walls don't do much for the outlying posts when a titan can spawn less than 4 clicks away. Make walls more useful, and close the bank at lower than 1m hitpoints, the bar at 500k. Anyone from Rookie to Veteran can build a wall, and it'll have a direct impact. It's more community driven than soloing a Titan


This makes perfect sense. If, somehow, a titan is left with 1hp and then arrives at an outpost, it's nearly dead so shouldn't be able to breach, imagine this happened to Newhome with its 8million+ hitpoints, a titan can punch 8million? why isn't it just smashing up the island?

Quote by: Raidur
perhaps make the outpost food better for that specific race. I always wondered why a zombie eating brains got the same effect as a human or kittymorph doing such.


blatantly Outposts would serve food suited to their own races, and this would certainly encourage races to stick to their outposts, protecting SH, AH, PV and CC404 better than they are now.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 11 2011 @ 04:39 AM
By: jakell

Content:

First off, thanks much to Beeps and Matthew; you folks are awesome, and I really appreciate the praise.

I voted to keep the Titans, kind of obvious, and the breaches with them, for selfish reasons. I have gotten very fond of traipsing around the beaches hunting the Titans down, and would very much like to bag my thousandth in the next month or so... but that is just my pride talking. As a higher level DKer, I really enjoy having both the challenge (and the money) of the Titans, and the easy experience found in the breach really makes my day. 1 day DKs are really fun, especially when racing the NewDay at the same time.

I had not actually known the Titans were a symptom of near-breaches; that is really cool!

I have a few contributions to make to the discussion, if you will forgive my inability to quote properly/at all, and any disconnectedness between my ideas:

Seeing monster text during the breach would be nice as Iriana stated earlier, (specially for the level 17 beasts since you do not even get any experience for killing them, even though they can kill you; gripe gripe gripe, still bitter sorry) but the fast-paced "before you have time to breathe" stays true to the spirit of the breach. I wonder if it might be a nice compromise such that so that some monsters were breach-specific; you would get some extra flavor text along the lines of " As you wipe the blood off your 'weapon', and across the street your eyes onto an Overseer. It raises it's massive cudgel and knocks aside two other contestants, before setting it's sights on you. The din of battle seems to fade away as it starts walking towards you. Then running." blah blah blah, and slightly more epic breach battle ensues, you get some great exp, and perhaps take a larger then normal chunk out of the monsters currently invading the outpost (100 monsters worth , up to 500 even?)? Shucks, you could have a few of these periodically throughout the breach, and taking them out could quickly bring the outposts back into line. They might even be something people could team up on, like the Titans... this would let folks like myself have a better chance at clearing out breaches; and would break up the tedium of being stuck with several level 1 beasts in a row would be nice. Just having one or two monsters with flavor text would indeed be nice.

It would be quite nice to be able to find out which outposts were breached. I have just about stopped visiting New Pittsburg when preparing to take down Titans, just so I do not waste any of my good attacking turns getting out of there. Perhaps in a clear city, there might be some city flavor text to the effect of "Refugees from Cyber City 404 make their way through the city gates, beaten and worn down" might make up a fairly good warning system. Perhaps this could be placed in the council offices instead; refugees asking for permits or the like... It seems like the council offices are under-utilized to me; I never check them, and have only accidentally gone in there every now and then.

And on the topic of the wall hit points; I agree with Maniak that the walls should fall roughly the amount of health that the Titan's have (bigger ones should do more damage), but perhaps the Titans should begin taking damage from the outpost as well, so that they do not just sit there all day long trashing the place. I picture the walls of the outpost being lined with catapults and those giant crossbow like things; which if the Titan made it to the outpost square, could do some damage to it, eventually taking it down and raining requisition of those fighting in the breach. Perhaps even if it was one square away they could lob a volley of arrows at it, but that is asking a bit much.

Referring back to Scorpio and Sessine; It woud be nice to be able to leave the jungle back to the world map, so as to not be dragged into the fight (I mean, come on, you are out in the jungle, not in some small Skronky Park inside the city!) but it would also be nice if while hunting the Drive, you could get returned to the jungle instead of the outpost. I do not much care for getting thrown into the heat of battle when I am looking to wrap up a nice day of battle.

Ultimately, if we did have to lose the Titans, and the breaches system, perhaps we could just have Titans randomly spawn around the edges, with the same "faster you kill them, the stronger they come back" attitude?

And if two were to somehow cross paths, they could ... spawn... a third? this would coincidentally make for a very disturbing situation should any two make it to the same outpost... the carnage would be nearly irreparable... but this is best left for a different topic.


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 11 2011 @ 07:28 AM
By: jakell

Content:

Another way you might short out some breaches would be to factor in drive kills at those bases; I assume it would generate a large enough wave of improbability to perhaps remove a bunch of the beasts, even stopping the breach? Sadly I have no Idea how to implement any of these suggestions, but I hope the ideas may stimulate some worthwhile conversation and action!


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 11 2011 @ 08:38 AM
By: jakell

Content:

Quote by: jakell


It would be quite nice to be able to find out which outposts were breached. I have just about stopped visiting New Pittsburg when preparing to take down Titans, just so I do not waste any of my good attacking turns getting out of there. Perhaps in a clear city, there might be some city flavor text to the effect of "Refugees from Cyber City 404 make their way through the city gates, beaten and worn down" might make up a fairly good warning system. Perhaps this could be placed in the council offices instead; refugees asking for permits or the like... It seems like the council offices are under-utilized to me; I never check them, and have only accidentally gone in there every now and then.



Either CMJ is ridiculously on top of things (he probably is) or I just need to check my council offices more then never. Awesome feature indeed!


Re: RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.

Posted on: January 11 2011 @ 09:51 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

CMJ has rolled out what appears to be a fix for this, and I said thanks in the MOTD discussion thread. I'll say it again here, thank you CMJ for responding to concerns of your player base.

In the couple of new days I played today there weren't any problems with closed outposts, I'll wait to see how these changes go, and any follow up changes that are made for a while. Hopefully this will resolve my concerns, after all extra req for fighting around an endangered outpost does no good if you loose it all to a breach, or the banks being closed.

Since it took Onslaught a little while to really, in my opinion, foul things up, we'll see if the fixes have a long term affect that I can live with.


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