Subject: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 06:41 PM
By: Ebenezer

Content:

I was one of those few who's voted on the recent poll "I'll tell you on the Enquirer." I figured we needed an obviously-named thread to put the replies into.

Here are my scattered thoughts on the matter, in no particular order:

The Outposts that fall frequently are the ones that are empty. I think they are empty because they are inconvenient. The biggest convenience issue, in my opinion, is food. If the food's good, then people will hang out there. I have often thought that if there was at least one "healthy choice" food in each Outpost, then it'd improve traffic. Nobody wants their characters to get fat.
I know that this might not be a popular suggestion, as it screws around with race-cultural things a bit. Why would Zombie food or Midget food be healthy? Why would Robots or Jokers have food at all? -- I don't know. I just know that if the Outposts had better food, then more people would be willing to go there.
(As a side note: the only outpost I'd not want to see a healthy-food-choice in is NewHome. Y'know... to encourage people to move on, once they can afford better food).

I play high ranks, because I like the challenge (and a high rank-average). However, this makes me mostly-useless during a Breach and utterly-useless with Titans. I'm not encouraged to fight, when I know my character will just wind up on the FailBoat. I am not sure what to suggest here. I know that a Breach and a Titan should be hard to destroy and that a high rank should be hard. -- But it leaves a lot of players, like myself, unable to help if an Outpost goes to hell.

There's little encouragement to defend an Outpost, other than experience. Not everyone's interested in levelling up fast. I think that if there was requisition involved, then more people would be interested in helping out.

Titans are popular, I believe, because they have proven to be an alternative way to earn requisition. I never fight Titans myself, because of the high-rank issue, but I know that a lot of people would be upset to see this part of the module gone. If this module vanishes, I'd really like to see another requisition-earner to replace it.
People need requisition to get the fancy, expensive weapons. And people can't just get all of that requisition in jungle-fights. (Especially if you can't fight in the jungle, because you're likely to die without buying a good weapon first).

Also regarding Titans, I think that there may be some sort of side-issue where all of the Titans are always slaughtered by a small handful of the same people. There are others who are interested in taking down Titans, but they are unable to, as the Titan-Slayers sometimes come in and take the kills before the weaker-players have a chance to make a dent.

For the lesser-popular Outposts, if there's no way to lessen the monster number by making the module weaker, is there a way to create something new that will help the players kill the monsters? I have no idea how that would work, and I feel a bit silly just trying to suggest a thing like this.

----------

As for whether or not the module should be scrapped, I'd rather not see that. I think that it would be a huge shame to lose all of it, entirely, forever. However, as it is now, it's not working. I'd much prefer if the module could be edited and made better, if that's an option.
If it's a choice between "keep it" and "lose it" with no "fix it" option, then I'm going to have to say lose it. As it is, it's not working. Titans are a huge shame to lose, but I'd rather lose the Titans and get the Outposts back, un-Breached.

I realize that I've listed more problems than solutions, but that's because I don't know how the module works and I don't know the different ways that it might be tweaked to solve these problems. I'm just trying to help make it obvious as to what needs to be tweaked.



Replies:

Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 08:03 PM
By: Wongo+the+Sane

Content:

Seconded, pretty much my opinions word for word.

EDIT: I agree it's a characterful thing, and I will regret missing my only real chance at a one-day DK, but I feel breaches generally are a massive inconvenience - and would be more than happy to live without them.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 08:58 PM
By: Kelwine

Content:

Yeah, my thought process went sort of like that. I don't like the breach part as much, but I love the idea of Titans. Myself and a few others that I know would love to RP in places like 404 and AH, but the fact that they tend to go down a lot presents a problem. I really want to see those farther-out outposts see more use, as they have a lot of potential, especially 404 if you ask me.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 09:45 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

From the other thread...

Quote by: dizzyizzy

I, personally, absolutely LOVE onslaught, especially breaches. It is far and away my favorite part of the gameplay. I love the frenetic pace, the crap shoot that is what level monster i'll get, everything. Absolute loads of fun. I'd be heartbroken to see it disappear. Do I have a solution that'll keep everyone happy? No. Do I have a solution that'll keep me happy? Yep. Up the rate at which monsters enter the outpost. Crank it through the ceiling. That seems to be the opposite of what you're going for, though...



To expand on why I love onslaught so much: It reminds me of a textual version of Doom 2, also known as The Greatest FPS ever made. Who here remembers the fun of charging into a room, chain gun blazing, probably screaming a battle cry from your desk chair, hoping you can outlast the myriad of demons within? I do. It was, and is, one of the highlights of my day.

Can I survive in onslaught?

Sure. With a Cat Launcher + Force gen. Other than that, I just hold on and hope to get something I can handle, grinning the entire time. So I get boated. Big deal, it's a game. I'll still run back in there the next day.


On top of that is the sheer badassery of it all. I once cleared out Squat Hole, Ace High, and a good half of New Pitts before I had to go dk. It was awesome, and I'd hate to lose that opportunity.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 09:48 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

I like the idea of onslaught and titans, but in practice they're a pain in the arse. People have been discussing possible fixes in the other RANT thread, some of them might work, or might not. If it was changed so that only one outpost was under threat at any one time, and that happened, what, say once a week tops, then yes, that could be good. I'm not sure what to do about titans, which are play things for the big boys really. I think that they'll have to go until such time as the whole combat system is rebalanced a bit. Which sounds to me like a very big job, to be implemented at season change over time. Then bring them back, starting small and slowly growing.

Otherwise, I would regretfully say scrap it.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 10:33 PM
By: calliaphone

Content:

I'm sorta seconding Hairy Mary on this one. I guess? I mean ... it's hard for me to say scrap it/don't scrap it ... since i'm really not much of a gameplay person (stream-of-consciousness follows...)

Using breaches to one's advantage is a concept that goes over my head. Breach = runaway OR fail, basically, for me. And Titans are simply things that squish my characters. My stats are such that I'm very little help at all with breaches or with Titans (even if it was in Callia's character to stride bravely up to danger and confront it). And when I have had a pop at them (with Callia or one of my other characters), there's very little in it for me except the sense of "helping out even though it's futile". With Onslaught, the gloss went off that for me .... oh, right back when I wrote about it last time (about a year ago?). Threat levels seemed to settle down a bit after that, so I calmed down and adopted a "play around it" strategy, when things did flare up. i.e. Let others deal with it unless it suits me to join in, and otherwise get on with the rest of the stuff I do. Titans came along, and I just carried on playing around them in much the same way. I'm so used to that now, my game-experience hasn't been overly hurt by the sudden upswing in round-the-clock-multiple-breaches lately. But it's fair to say that neither Titans nor Onslaught have added anything for me either, in the long-term.

I've felt, right from the start of Onslaught, that there needed to be less of it. I know it's meant to be a gameworld set in a war-zone so breaches do add "realism" (of a sort!). But ...people come to the island to play, for fun. And modules like dwellings encourage a much more diverse RP-outlook, much more varied storylines than just "we're in a war-zone", which is part of the fun (at least for people like me) - in that we get to make up stories of our own, like complicated diversions from the standard canon. If you're into that sort of thing, it does jar the expectations a bit to find so many outposts under attack so often.

So, I guess I'm saying ... Onslaught could possibly still add to the game experience for me, but only if breaches are a very occasional thing. In other words, if the war takes place in the jungle, and the players go out to find it, most of the time. But occasionally there is a flare up and a whole bunch of monsters and/or Titans hit a single outpost really hard, and it takes a little while to sort it out. If it's rare, but lasts a week or so, I could imagine actually choosing to RP into it a bit, rather than just filter it out - knowing it's something that doesn't happen every day. It becomes a story event, to play off, and can make for interesting new directions for characters.

I say all this, aware that I'm speaking purely from a RPer's perspective rather than a gamer's. If this would spoil fun for a lotta people, that's no good at all, but I'll leave others to speak up for themselves.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 08 2011 @ 11:41 PM
By: Epaphus

Content:

I tend to agree with Hairy Mary and Ebenezar. I like the idea of Titans, but I don't attack them when I play at higher ranks.*

Can the Onslaught module be limited to specific cities?** If not, then my vote is to unplug it.***
_____

* Because ... well, I end up enjoying the comforts of the Failboat often enough as is, without the Titan's tossing me directly there with a shrug of their mighty "shoulders."

** Not, of course, that I'm advocating daily monster invasions into Kittania. Nope, not at all. Nor do I know anything about the plot to drench Titans in catnip cologne. Rumors and lies, I say!--All of it, rumors and lies.

*** Maybe it can be reactivated on special occasions--say, like Thursdays.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 01:55 AM
By: Isaac "Fig" Newton

Content:

Quote by: Epaphus



Can the Onslaught module be limited to specific cities?** If not, then my vote is to unplug it.***



Pretty much what I was going to say. I mean, think of it one way. If the streets/squares/etc. are bare except for the occasional NPC, and them onsters are smart enough to attack places where the people are supposed to gather....

In other words; if the monsters are getting smart enough to attack outposts, then it only makes sense that they would, by now, have learned to only really bother going for the outposts that are bustling. Also that robots aren't usually too great for eating.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 02:19 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.

It would let people plan for their quests and parties and story-scenes, and enjoy other parts of the Island for the rest of the week.

Or, you know. Doesn't have to be once a week. It could be, for instance, the tenth and twenty-eighth days of each month. Or the full moon.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 03:50 AM
By: Mongo

Content:

There is one aspect of this that has not been covered. I will speak for myself, because I don't know how many others it affects. I have a substantial investment in Titans. (14/38) I would like to keep them around, even on a reduced frequency


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 03:53 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

Now that I've seen that there are others that have also run into frustration from this, and there is some discussion, I'm in a much mellower mood. I still think the onslaught system, as it is, is not a good solution, but with some mods it could be.

In addition to a couple of ideas that I've put in the RANT I started and in light of the discussion of how the module works, and why it is causing so much problem, well, it spawned a rather evil alternative idea to scrapping it all together.

Since the problem is not enough players in the outposts that are constantly going down, why not hook in something like the heroic system for people that like to avoid the drive. If an outpost goes down, the townspeople in other outposts start grabbing anyone just loitering around role-playing, tote their asses off to the breached outpost, and throw them to the breach monsters. It would make sure that when an outpost breaches enough people actually go there to fight off the breach!

Of course if that is implemented, I'd say the outcry to dump the onslaught module would gain some major volume!

Actually the idea of limited activation is very appealing, it would give some chance of outposts being breached, but would also allow for them to be up a whole lot more of the time.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 03:58 AM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.

It would let people plan for their quests and parties and story-scenes, and enjoy other parts of the Island for the rest of the week.

Or, you know. Doesn't have to be once a week. It could be, for instance, the tenth and twenty-eighth days of each month. Or the full moon.




Oooooooohhhhh full moon onslaught would be awesome.

I'd stamp that plan with my seal of approval, provided it's more difficult to prevent a breach. I don't want to see breaches disappear.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 04:08 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Mm... I've already made my opinions clear in the other thread, but I guess I can reiterate them here.

I would not be too sad to see Onslaught go away. Right now, Ace High, Squat Hole, New Pittsburgh, and Cyber City are all breached. Whatever intent the original system might have had to get players to spread out across the outposts, all it's really accomplished is the direct opposite. I know I would probably visit Cyber City a lot more often if it would actually be up more than 10% of the time. Maybe that's selfish of me, but it's still defeating the purpose.

Right now it's certainly hurting more than it's helping, so scrap it for now. I fully approve of weekly/monthly breaches, though!

I would be quite sad to see Titans go away, though, even if I realize the majority of contestants probably wouldn't blink twice at it. I'd love to see those stay in some capacity.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 04:17 AM
By: Pawn

Content:

I, for one, rather enjoy playing the desperate survivalist role. Personal preference, I know. So, I was rather disappointed to hear that the onslaughts might be going away. That being said, it sounds like they are happening rather more often than when I played 8-9 months ago. But in any case, I did want to be the minority voice.

From what I have been hearing, the problem seems to be that some outposts are mostly empty and therefore get overrun, while others are always well-defended. I'm a fan of the bring-the-monsters-to-the-people solution, but I wonder if there are any bring-the-people-to-the-monsters solutions that are less drastic than forced relocation? As it is, there is no reason for me to go to Squat Hole unless Dan sends me on a mission there. If I'm doing missions for Dan. If there was a greater incentive for folks to hang out in the more northern cities, they would get reinforced more and more of the jungle critters would be agressed.

A handful of ideas along these lines would be to make items at eBoys cheaper the further north they are, more missions from Dan sending people to 404 or Ace High, maybe some unique (and lucrative) locations in the north? I have no idea what the technical difficulties are in implementing these, but they would help address the root problem of empty outposts.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 06:56 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

I think above all, though, is that while we think of ways to make Onslaught more fun because most of us seem to like its concept (and most of us seem to like Titans a lot more), the Onslaught Module gets removed until that later fixing-up. The game's current status with New Pitts and CC404 being down 90% of the time has gotten to absurd, and the self-correcting part of these algorithms don't really seem to be making it easy for unpopulated outposts to clear up.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 10:18 AM
By: Maniak

Content:

I like the idea of a Breach tied to the stance of the moon /current Microsoft stock /amount of donations in the past 6 weeks /time o' the month of the Watcher /DKs by naked spork wielding kittymorphs.

For posterity's sake I'll also repost from the other thread.

Proposed fixes:

a) Link the Onslaught to the people currently in the Outpost. This will center it around the most populated outposts, NewHome Kittania and Improbable Central. There are enough fighting people there to keep it safe. This might be a problem if player numbers are inflated by pure RP'ers and non-fighting alts, but I personally doubt the severity of that.

b) Wall hitpoints should fall the amount of health the Titan has left once it reaches the outpost. Titans were originally made to warn a Breach was coming. Right now, Titans arrive at CC404 which already has a high threat level, and they're the final nail in the coffin. This is a double-breach mechanism. Walls don't do much for the outlying posts when a titan can spawn less than 4 clicks away. Make walls more useful, and close the bank at lower than 1m hitpoints, the bar at 500k. Anyone from Rookie to Veteran can build a wall, and it'll have a direct impact. It's more community driven than soloing a Titan.

c) Breach is popular only among those high on the DK-ladder, because the grind away from level 1 takes ages. Breach isn't popular because of the fallen Outpost, but because of the exp. The amount of monsters you need to kill at level one goes up by 1 each DK. At DK 50 that's becoming boring. As far as removing Breach itself, that's fine. To negate the cries of those that like the exp grind, either chance the leveling ladder, or give normal exp in the Nightmare court. The way it scales up is perfect. Most of the buffs only last a limited number of rounds and the monster resets to level 1 upon entering, so gargleblasting your way in shouldn't give too much of an unfair advantage.

and, adding to it, in the spirit of c),

d) Make an Island in the lake, flooding with monsters. As a sort of well of monsters. For every 1000 monsters killed, the encounter rate for the entire island is lowered by 1%. Yo dawg I heard you like the Island so we put an Island on the Island so you can be on an Island while you're on the Island


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 10:53 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Maniak

d) Make an Island in the lake, flooding with monsters. As a sort of well of monsters. For every 1000 monsters killed, the encounter rate for the entire island is lowered by 1%



Ooh, now this is an idea I like. With current breach mechanics, you get no money for fighting breach monsters; I think that's a rather good balance. If you spend your entire DK fighting in a breach, you're left with zero money for valuable equipment/grenades/gargle blasters. So- jungle fighting (or crate hunting) would still be quite necessary.

A playground where only the elite dare tread, and easily avoidable by everyone else!

Then again, this does seem a bit too easy; there's have to be a sort of catch. Maybe the monsters are actually quite tougher than their jungle counterparts.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 01:17 PM
By: Caleb

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.

It would let people plan for their quests and parties and story-scenes, and enjoy other parts of the Island for the rest of the week.

Or, you know. Doesn't have to be once a week. It could be, for instance, the tenth and twenty-eighth days of each month. Or the full moon.



That sounds like an excellent idea. I'm not sure how you'd justify it -- moon madness, maybe, or something to do with the tides, given that Titans are sea-dwelling critters -- or if it even needs any justification at all, but I'd be quite pleased to see something like this in effect. As long as people knew it was coming, and could stock up on grenades -- yes.

I vote this.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 04:22 PM
By: Iriana

Content:

I like the idea of a Breach tied to the stance of the moon /current Microsoft stock /amount of donations in the past 6 weeks /time o' the month of the Watcher /DKs by naked spork wielding kittymorphs


I laughed out loud.

Funny as that'd be, though (and oh man, it'd be really funny.) I like the idea of a regular breach, even if I'm not sure how that'd quite work in story. "Oops, it's Thursday, better go eat some unwary citizens" seems a little out of place. But of course it is Improbable Island, as we often say.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 06:04 PM
By: Epaphus

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.



Ah!--Finally!--Someone around here listens to me!*
_____

* And he should have realized the magnitude of his mistake by now. But I do like the idea of tying it to the value of Microsoft stock.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 06:47 PM
By: Unisol

Content:

Being a lowly Rookie, I feel ashamed of opening my mouth wider than it needed for breathing, but I cannot help noting one thing. I've browsed topics on this module, and I didn't see anyone put out something obvious to me: wall defences. Turrets, catapults, barf spitters, you name it. They exist in city descriptions, but are not programmed in. Having a couple of big guns in every city would cerainly make fighting assaults easier (though there may be a possibility for great imbalance if tuned badly - a sole 1st level hero fights off a week-long onslaught), so why not add them?


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 07:22 PM
By: Epaphus

Content:

Quote by: Unisol

a sole 1st level hero fights off a week-long onslaught



And what's wrong with that? That's the plot of just about every fantasy and action movie, where a first-time hero jumps in and saves the day (girl/kingdom/whatever) where seasoned professionals couldn't.*
____

* Though, admit it, we're really spending our $10 ticket money to see him get smacked around some, first, and maybe stripped naked and duct-taped to a burning Pontiac in front of City Hall. Ah, but I suppose we never forget our senior proms, do we?


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 07:46 PM
By: Swede

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

If it's Thursday, EST, it must be time for Onslaught again. Cry "Reinforcement!" and let loose the Titans!

That's... actually improbable enough to fit the Island perfectly.

It would let people plan for their quests and parties and story-scenes, and enjoy other parts of the Island for the rest of the week.

Or, you know. Doesn't have to be once a week. It could be, for instance, the tenth and twenty-eighth days of each month. Or the full moon.



Full moon. I'm so for that. Mr. Green
Now I voted to scrap the module, because though as much as I like it and Titans, it seems to cause annoyance.
If it cannot be fixed I say scrap it. If it can please do so as I like it.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 08:01 PM
By: Chef Albert Carter

Content:

Hey there, long time player, first-time poster.

I originally voted to keep the Titans and the Breaches, but after playing through several breached cities and wasting a few Builders Brews I just got to say that the system needs a bit of tweaking.

I've read over most of the thread, and one major thing that sticks out for me is what Ebenezer said about there not being any good stamina-gaining places in CyberCity and AceHigh...with NO way to replenish stamina other than ration packs and energy drinks (which many Rookies and lower drive kill folks have little access to) it tends to not offer any incentive to stay. Though Jokers and Robots don't need to eat, I'm sure the residents there know that other beings that DO eat tend to visit, and it might do them well to offer cafes and restaurants. You may also want to entice folks who would otherwise stay away from these outposts with better stamina-producing foods...but maybe offer a side effect or two (I.E. the Red, Turquoise, and White Spring Waters in Kittania's Cool Springs Cafe). I can imagine a Robot Chef doing his best to prepare a fine dish and wind up with Spaghetti and Meat-Bolts....a great stamina boost, but lays heavily in one's stomach, causing them to lose Defense, or something like that.

As for the Titans "Eating" the walls to an outpost, there was an excellent idea mentioned there, too: Have them take down the outpost walls only a certain amount in relation to how healthy they are. It makes no sense and it very frustrating to have a Titan reach an outpost after a score or so Islanders been whacking away at it just to have it tear down 17 Million worth of Wall HP when the Titan is literally down to it's last 100,000 Hit Points! I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but what about Titans being only able to destroy a percentage of an outpost's walls directly related to how healthy they are when they reach it? Like 20% health left = 20% of the wall's HP lost when it reaches the outpost and goes all Godzilla on it?

As for the breaches themselves, I think this needs the most tweaking. I spent about five hours along with a small handful of others trying to put out a breach in New Pittsburgh....among the 3 to 5 of us, there were 2500 to 3000 monsters to dispose of...and the numbers always seem to grow, which made progress a total crawl. For people wanting to level up quickly, this can be a great tool to rocket them through the levels and make that 1-Day Drive Kill which seems to be so coveted. But for those who are simply trying to get their home back (my heart goes out to those who play the zombies and the robots especially) this can be a huge pain in the ass. Nonetheless, I think Breaches are great because it gets a chance for some of the veteran players to be heroes and it also provides a sense of accomplishment once the breach is FINALLY contained. Lately, that sense of accomplishment is severely lessened when the damned outpost gets breached again 15 minutes later!

I am proposing the following fix, to be added to the other pool of suggestions:

Have two "Levels" of 'breachdom':

COMPROMISED - This is a partial breach where some monsters are getting in and making business in the outpost a risky proposition. A Compromised outpost is treated like it was just another part of the world map...random monster encounters are possible and some businesses can stay open. Shoring up the defenses CAN fix a Compromised Outpost, but if that isn't done within say....1 to 3 NewDays, then it runs a serious risk of being overrun completely, which leads to....

BREACHED! - The outpost is completely incapacitated and the stampede of monsters must be mostly cleared out before it can get back to a Compromised State.

As for the number of monsters that need killing before an outpost is even partially accessible: 2500 to 3000 monsters running around in there is simply TOO MUCH. make it 250 to 500 or something when the breach first occurs.....enough so that one person is going to have a difficult time of it, but not totally impossible for a Well-Fed Islander (I.E. 250% to 300% Stamina) to at least put a respectable dent toward getting the outpost back on its feet.

And certainly reward teamwork with shorter Breach times...and like Titans and their very respectable requisition rewards, maybe offer something similar to those who contributed to plugging up a breach? Maybe have a pool of 100 cigarettes up for grabs to those who contribute to plugging the Breach, divvied up proportionally to the number of monsters a contestant killed in contribution to making an outpost (relatively) safe again?

In any case, I would establish a "Safe Time" for any outpost that just went through a breach: this would give people time to shore up the defenses and ensure the safety....make it two hours or even four hours: the guards at the outpost could keep things relatively safe....this might work out especially well with the Compromised suggestion, as it gives players that option to either fully save the outpost or just simply do what they wanted to in that town and then go off on their own way.

Another final idea is to have a "Defense Fund" option in each outpost. By contributing requisition, you pay for the outpost to hire more protectors and militia to keep the walls shored up and the jungles thinned out to manageable levels. This Fund is depleted steadily and must be kept 'fed' to have better defenses running. If the money runs out, it's back to the garden variety defenses and the risk for Compromises and Breaches go up accordingly.

**Takes a Breath**

Whew....didn't expect to be THAT long-winded, but I hope this helps.

I really DO enjoy battling titans and putting down breaches, and would LOVE to have them stay, but regardless of what happens, I don't think we can keep on going the way we are right now...because it stings to go through all of the effort and then have it all taken away just 15 minutes after.

Keep up the good work, and I'll see you around on the island!

--Scott Matthew
AKA Iron Chef Albert Carter


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 09:29 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Hi there Unisol and welcome to the Island. Please don't be shy about saying something, if we only get long standing players saying anything then we'll only really see things from long standing players points of view, its good to hear Rookies perspectives as well I feel. Also, if you're nervous of saying something daft, then have a look at some of the things I've said. You'd be hard pressed to say anything dafter than some of my ramblings.

There have been some quite interesting ideas for dealing with excessive onslaught, I particularly like the idea of titan's only taking down some of a walls HP depending on how many HP it has left, and the idea of only occasionally having onslaught active, on Epaphus's wedding anniversary or whenever.

I'd like to remention one that was suggested ages ago, some sort of recognition of who ever took out the most monsters in a breached outpost, a new medal maybe. Given the amount of players on the Island, these would be fairly rare items, and some people at least, would rather like them. That might encourage more people to go up to the outposts in the hope of getting said medal.

Having said that, I still think that these are possible fixes, by no means certain, so I'm still a bit ambivalent about what to do.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 09 2011 @ 11:34 PM
By: Jannick

Content:

Speaking as a player just barely out of Rookie status, I actually liked the breaches for the challenge and variety of the fights. As others have said, though, it's pretty clear that the system isn't working as intended.

What if each outpost had a militia that players could opt into, sort of along the lines of a clan? Maybe they could have periodic missions to thin out the jungle monster population and sound the "emergency action" alarm if a breach is imminent. It could be made attractive to players by allowing them to rise through the ranks with number of kills made in defense of their home turf and maybe conferring medals or special buffs or items at high ranks.

Not sure how much merit that has. There's an awful lot of overlap with the function of clans, but it seems like it would encourage the sort of cooperative play the module was going for originally.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 10 2011 @ 03:06 AM
By: hajen

Content:

"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon" - Napoleon

i voted for dropping onslaught, at least for the time being (so don't add this to the count to drop it).
i am seeing that the majority do like it it, at least in some fashion; so here's some thoughts on incentivizing the defending of a breached outpost:

offer medals -- defender of 'insert breached outpost name here (IBONH)', one for each outpost obviously and either an upgraded medal for higher levels of defense effort (i.e. level 1= 1k monsters killed, level 2 =10k monsters killed, level 3 = 100k monsters killed) or incorporate into the medal's graphics devices such as stars for each level or the "V" device for valor and "C" device for courage.
also possible: have an overarching system of medals
a medal of courage for having earned at least a level 1 'defender of IBONH' for each outpost.
a medal of valor for having earned at least a level 2 'defender of IBONH' for each outpost.
a medal of honor for having earned the highest level 'defender of IBONH' for each outpost.

if not medals, how about an entry into the hall of fame for those of us who don't care how charming we are Cool , but will be racing to one-up each other for the title of most lethal on the island.
and if you might think it would be weighted towards those that can afford the biggest guns, base it on stamina expended instead.

but this is all for later, i am intrigued by what the time/weather system will bring and want to see it soonest. Mr. Green


edit: i just realized this might/would incentivize allowing an outpost to fall first oops Laughing Out Loud
still something to think about though


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 10 2011 @ 04:53 AM
By: Hiraniva

Content:

I'm actually posting on the Enquirer to discuss this. Woah.


My opinion is quite similar to some of those that have been shared already here, but since opinions are being asked for, I will put in my two cents. And I'm going to itemize them, so I am sorry in advance for the outline-like feel this post is going to have, but it is the only way I can operate and not get completely distracted.

One - I enjoy breaches, onslaughts, and Titans, from both a gameplay standpoint (Hey look, I can stand here and they will come to me) And a roleplay and story standpoint. (Ohno the monsters are coming! Ahhhh!). It's something else for the characters to discuss that is built into the game, that is canon, that is part of the world that CMJ seems to enjoy building for us so much. I would be really sad to see this part of it go away, since, in my mind, given the scenario the Island is set in, there would be sieges of outposts, and huge, creepy, massive Titans occasionally lumbering around.

Two - I am in agreement, however, that the system is not working as it is. Suggesting rewards of requisition for killing monsters in a breached outpost has been suggested, and I think this would be one solution that might help. I also find the suggestion that breaches/onslaughts happen at scheduled times, that we are all aware of, to be interesting. Something to consider!

Three - Ebenezer mentioned food being something that draws people to Outposts, and thus they are more reinforced, defended, and people are just there more. Even if it is not food, the reason people aren't in the outposts is because there isn't anything drawing them there. For example, I'm pretty sure I haven't stepped foot in New Pittsburgh since my Zombie run nine months ago because I didn't have a reason to. Why waste stamina to trek all the way out to zombie-ville when there isn't a reason to? And no, the walls being breached is not a reason to go there, it's a reason to avoid it!

Four - My conclusion. I would be upset to see these aspects of the game disappear - enough that I really want to say to keep them, regardless of the mild annoyance it seems to be causing. However, this annoyance of late seems to be building exponentially, so, if the choice was one or the other, I'm forced to say to get rid of it. Fortunately, I don't think this is a case of one, or the other... If there's something that draws people to the outposts, they will be much less likely to fall.

Five - My disclaimer? I don't really have specific suggestions as to what to add to the other outposts to bring people in... So maybe this post wasn't very helpful at all.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 10 2011 @ 08:06 AM
By: Harris

Content:

I kind of suck at Titan killing and breach-clearing. Onslaughts-in-progress? Well, I'm not too proud sally forth and hunt down the Easy fights until the onslaught is beaten back.

That being said, I love this dynamic anyway. Helps the world feel more alive, you see. More like a *living* place. Please keep it.
Does something need to be done differently? Yes.

(looks at the pubs, and their offensive and defensive goodies they grant)

It may be as simple as the rest of the pubs being added.
"Oh, we can defend Squat Hole and CyberCity with local buffs now, too?"
"Yup."
"WELL LET'S FREAKIN' GO."

Perhaps an "ATM" option as has been mentioned, only not *exactly* as suggested...
Picture an outpost being breached, and having fought through the prerequisite number of monsters to get the "what do you do?" menu. Along with reinforce defenses, fight monsters, count monsters, and run, add in "go to ATM".
Have our bank funds available during a breach (AND during an attack, after the bank closes), for a requsition fee, just like real world ATMs. But have these ATMs ONLY become usable after the bank has closed.
One of the most common complaints I've heard is "I can't buy weapons/grenades during an onslaught, because I can't get to the bank!"
Ta-dah!!

Or...have Onslaughts only on Thursdays.

I never could get the hang of Thursdays...


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 10 2011 @ 04:28 PM
By: Tahvohck

Content:

Personally, I'd hate to see onslaughts leave. While I may not participate in them much, it's mostly because I have little reason to be in those towns, as people before me have mentioned, but they add a new level to the story that would just feel...Iunno, wrong if it wasn't there. On the other hand, it still feels like it's missing something. The monsters are attacking, but why? So they can just stand around in a town and get beat to death, instead of a Jungle, where they have a fighting advantage? What I'd really like to see is a level below BREACHED!: FALLEN! Once an outpost has been breached for a certain amount of time, or so many times in one period, the monsters take over and the positions are reversed: all of the citizens get kicked out of the town, maybe even setting up a new one somewhere else, and now it's the contestants who are tearing down the walls, trying to get in. Maybe even have a way to sneak in with a and roleplay covert ops, with a chance of the whole group getting caught and kicked out/imprisoned/subduing the guards.

However, while the Outpost is still under civilian control, I'd also like to see some of the other options people have mentioned: wall defenses, stronger or weaker depending on the city; a COMPROMISED state; medals; Titans only doing damage based on their health--though that should only kick in when they're under 75% or so, since they could fight just the same with minor damage, reasonably--etc.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 11 2011 @ 03:42 AM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Okay, the results are in, and it looks like I'm gonna end up spending some more time on this.

First thing, to stick a plaster over the stump of the severed arm, I'm going to implement adaptive Req rewards, along with an indicator of monster activity in the Council offices. Fighting in Outposts under high threat levels will result in up to twice as much Req; fighting in Outposts that really shouldn't have any bloody monsters left for you to fight will result in as little as 0.75 of usual Req.

(and yes, I did briefly consider allowing Jungles to empty - it'd make the most canonical sense, but it's a bit drastic for Season Two)


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 11 2011 @ 05:43 AM
By: Mack

Content:

This gets my full approval as a quick, and hopefully effective, temporary fix. If it proves effective enough, it may be good to keep it around in one form or another for good. I look forward to seeing what you do to fix the situation, assuming this moves it in the right direction.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 11 2011 @ 05:54 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

This strikes me as fairly fantastic, as well. I know I, for one, will be using this every game day (in which I fight, at least) to see where I'm most needed. The extra req is a very nice incentive.

edit: And the lowered req for fighting in outposts under no threat is also nice. Though... if I may suggest one thing? Could req-gains everywhere be normalized (1x), if and only if all the outposts are "Peaceful Days" across the board? Not being able to go anywhere without incurring reduced req rewards would be... really, really annoying, actually.

edit edit: And maybe newer players shouldn't be subject to reduced req rewards until around the 5th DK or so. After all, as a rookie, leaving NewHome is a tall order!


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 11 2011 @ 06:39 AM
By: Mack

Content:

Quote by: Matthew



And maybe newer players shouldn't be subject to reduced req rewards until around the 5th DK or so. After all, as a rookie, leaving NewHome is a tall order!



Another easy solution would be to make Newhome always put out at 1x req rates. It's not like it would ever come under a real threat, so long as titans were kept down.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 11 2011 @ 09:46 AM
By: Scorpio

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Okay, the results are in, and it looks like I'm gonna end up spending some more time on this.

First thing, to stick a plaster over the stump of the severed arm, I'm going to implement adaptive Req rewards, along with an indicator of monster activity in the Council offices. Fighting in Outposts under high threat levels will result in up to twice as much Req; fighting in Outposts that really shouldn't have any bloody monsters left for you to fight will result in as little as 0.75 of usual Req.

(and yes, I did briefly consider allowing Jungles to empty - it'd make the most canonical sense, but it's a bit drastic for Season Two)



OK, based on the couple of new days I played, this seems to be working. New Pitts was actually up and running. So, I'm willing to give it some time to see how this does, and any other changes that are made down the road.

In any event, thank you very much for listening and doing something to fix what I viewed as a deal breaker of a problem.

The extra req for helping to keep breaches from happening will also come in quite handy, provided it doesn't get back to the point where outposts are down all the time and the req is a wash because it gets stripped from you when you are unable to bank it with a downed outpost, or one down enough that the banks stay closed.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 12 2011 @ 04:22 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

This sounds good for preventing a breach, but are there req rewards when fighting during a breach? Because if it's not set up that way, players will still not want to participate fighting in a town overrun with 3000 monsters.

Edit: I see the MOTD says that there aren't increased rewards for breaches themselves. I wonder what CMJ's going to put for there, because as I said, a city that falls has no more incentive.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 12 2011 @ 09:02 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

The other issue with this is that the system still doesn't make it any more enticing for a lot of players to run themselves out to another outpost. I know that, currently, AceHigh needs some help. I have good fighting stats, but not good travelling stats. Because I'm in Kittania, the payouts are reduced, and buying a weapon is currently still a priority over buying a one-shot to get out there.
Both Jokers and Midgets tend to encourage staying in one place - Midget because travel costs are so high, and Joker because if you spend a day's stamina getting out there, there's no telling if you'll be suited to fight once you're there. The last time I tried to help out AceHigh, I burned through all 12 of my chronospheres, and got one day that was good for fighting - And barely made a dent in the monster population. Jokers make for very in-the-moment daily planning, which is not good for anything that requires prolonged attention.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 12 2011 @ 09:23 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

The other issue with this is that the system still doesn't make it any more enticing for a lot of players to run themselves out to another outpost. I know that, currently, AceHigh needs some help. I have good fighting stats, but not good travelling stats. Because I'm in Kittania, the payouts are reduced, and buying a weapon is currently still a priority over buying a one-shot to get out there.
Both Jokers and Midgets tend to encourage staying in one place - Midget because travel costs are so high, and Joker because if you spend a day's stamina getting out there, there's no telling if you'll be suited to fight once you're there. The last time I tried to help out AceHigh, I burned through all 12 of my chronospheres, and got one day that was good for fighting - And barely made a dent in the monster population. Jokers make for very in-the-moment daily planning, which is not good for anything that requires prolonged attention.

In-the-moment? Yes, that is so. Each day a new challenge.... It's what makes Jokers the most interesting race to play, but you're right, they're not exactly dependable!

A few rail passes in the wallet can help cope with transportation difficulties, though.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 12 2011 @ 10:05 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: Beeps

The other issue with this is that the system still doesn't make it any more enticing for a lot of players to run themselves out to another outpost. I know that, currently, AceHigh needs some help. I have good fighting stats, but not good travelling stats. Because I'm in Kittania, the payouts are reduced, and buying a weapon is currently still a priority over buying a one-shot to get out there.
Both Jokers and Midgets tend to encourage staying in one place - Midget because travel costs are so high, and Joker because if you spend a day's stamina getting out there, there's no telling if you'll be suited to fight once you're there. The last time I tried to help out AceHigh, I burned through all 12 of my chronospheres, and got one day that was good for fighting - And barely made a dent in the monster population. Jokers make for very in-the-moment daily planning, which is not good for anything that requires prolonged attention.

In-the-moment? Yes, that is so. Each day a new challenge.... It's what makes Jokers the most interesting race to play, but you're right, they're not exactly dependable!

A few rail passes in the wallet can help cope with transportation difficulties, though.



that's true, but I'm desperately saving cards right now because I'm absolutely terrified of what your new system you've mentioned will involve.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 12 2011 @ 11:10 PM
By: Doc

Content:

Thought it's a bit late, what if you combined Epaphus' Invastion Day and Maniak's Isle of Monsters? Before the set day, people could go to the monster island and try to thin the herds that would otherwise head out to the outposts. Also, you could have variable monster levels to help the DK centurions get over the hump.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 12 2011 @ 11:47 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Not entirely sure about the Isle of monsters idea, but if you do have it and it needs borking a bit, well not having a hospital tent there would make it harder.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 12:24 AM
By: Epaphus

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

(and yes, I did briefly consider allowing Jungles to empty - it'd make the most canonical sense, but it's a bit drastic for Season Two)



If the Jungles empty, how will players level up? *Gasp!*--Would they be forced to travel? That's downright evil.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 01:32 AM
By: kage

Content:

Most of these suggestions sound fun.


And thanks CMJ for being on top of this!


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 07:19 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

The other issue with this is that the system still doesn't make it any more enticing for a lot of players to run themselves out to another outpost. I know that, currently, AceHigh needs some help. I have good fighting stats, but not good travelling stats. Because I'm in Kittania, the payouts are reduced, and buying a weapon is currently still a priority over buying a one-shot to get out there.
Both Jokers and Midgets tend to encourage staying in one place - Midget because travel costs are so high, and Joker because if you spend a day's stamina getting out there, there's no telling if you'll be suited to fight once you're there. The last time I tried to help out AceHigh, I burned through all 12 of my chronospheres, and got one day that was good for fighting - And barely made a dent in the monster population. Jokers make for very in-the-moment daily planning, which is not good for anything that requires prolonged attention.



Your protests are what makes it sound so good from a design perspective. Making the players spend a day on travelling instead of the grind again? Sounds like we're mixing things up with another dynamic, breaking the rhythm of waking up, fighting in the jungle to 30%, banking, sleeping, and chronoboosting to the same day again.

As a player, you make an interesting choice whether or not to move to a city where there's an increased payout, or stay in the city where you are for an extra day of fighting. You don't need to one-shot out of there. One-shots used to be a lot more expensive than now, because CMJ accidentally deleted all the economy data and the system had to start over. OSTs weren't in carrot-on-stick range where you feel like travel requires you to grind to OST level--they were a luxury item for a rich level 15 person or an essential piece to someone creatively synergizing all aspects of their strategy to do a 1-day DK or something.

And you'll be suited to a fight, so long as the place hasn't fallen. Before a breach, you help clear a place out with fights at your level. During a breach, it's any-level-goes. And this incentive doesn't apply to breach fights themselves.

If you're a Joker, you're completely right about not getting suited for consistent Outpost prevention. But you get money from Diamond cards instead, so that balances out nicely, since they used to always get more money than the other races with no player input.

Until I learned about Dan's Quests, I always stayed in one outpost during a DK, and then I always stayed specifically in Pleasantville during any DK with any race ('cept Robot, which I didn't play much at the time). Encouraging travel is good.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 07:39 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Quote by: Beeps

I said a bunch of words here.



Your protests are what makes it sound so good from a design perspective. Making the players spend a day on travelling instead of the grind again? Sounds like we're mixing things up with another dynamic, breaking the rhythm of waking up, fighting in the jungle to 30%, banking, sleeping, and chronoboosting to the same day again.


Agreed, something that mixes things up would be good. But my point is that with the changes, it's still easier to stay in the same outpost and do the same routine. Spend two days to get out there and (maybe) get an average of 100% req across the two days, or get 75% req for each day and know that you'll be able to bank it? Wasting three days of saved chronospheres, making no progress doesn't make me want to try that again. It makes me feel that my current schedule of running around in the safe jungle is a better idea.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

As a player, you make an interesting choice whether or not to move to a city where there's an increased payout, or stay in the city where you are for an extra day of fighting. You don't need to one-shot out of there. One-shots used to be a lot more expensive than now, because CMJ accidentally deleted all the economy data and the system had to start over. OSTs weren't in carrot-on-stick range where you feel like travel requires you to grind to OST level--they were a luxury item for a rich level 15 person or an essential piece to someone creatively synergizing all aspects of their strategy to do a 1-day DK or something.


So that's what happened...

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

And you'll be suited to a fight, so long as the place hasn't fallen. Before a breach, you help clear a place out with fights at your level. During a breach, it's any-level-goes. And this incentive doesn't apply to breach fights themselves.

If you're a Joker, you're completely right about not getting suited for consistent Outpost prevention. But you get money from Diamond cards instead, so that balances out nicely, since they used to always get more money than the other races with no player input.


The double payouts help to bring an incentive to the fact that an outpost needs help, but personally, a req reward isn't something that gets my attention at my current level of play. I can get any of the equipment I want in due time, with the only other equipment out there being so ridiculously expensive I don't even bother saving up for it. However, as a Joker, a breach is extremely handy for some of the reasons people have already mentioned. It's a way to speed through a lot of kills, but more importantly to me, you don't spend Hunting stamina, which is, even at level 49, still one of the highest-stamina-cost things I can do. I would actually do better to wait until it falls, then swoop in and burn through several dozen monsters, ignoring the major thing keeping me from being able to defend an outpost, and sneak out when I get a chance.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Until I learned about Dan's Quests, I always stayed in one outpost during a DK, and then I always stayed specifically in Pleasantville during any DK with any race ('cept Robot, which I didn't play much at the time). Encouraging travel is good.


Agreed, again. Anything that can actually motivate people to move about and experience the world is great. But actually making something that does this has proven difficult - Look at the rally.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 08:33 AM
By: fred

Content:

Just a side point, towards the top of the thread the subject of food was brought up.

There is little attraction in basing oneself in a city where there is no stamina recharge support i.e. food station. This make ACE High for example a boring place as you are rarely there. When a stamina boost is required the only way is to enter the Jungle and kill and cook things...therefore why stay in Ace High.

And is there any reason why there are now apparantly multiple Titans continuously roaaming the Island?

Just my 1o cents worth


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 08:38 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: fred

Just a side point, towards the top of the thread the subject of food was brought up.

There is little attraction in basing oneself in a city where there is no stamina recharge support i.e. food station. This make ACE High for example a boring place as you are rarely there. When a stamina boost is required the only way is to enter the Jungle and kill and cook things...therefore why stay in Ace High.

And is there any reason why there are now apparantly multiple Titans continuously roaaming the Island?

Just my 1o cents worth


I was thinking that, but if you're a RP-focused Joker or Robot you could get away with living in a no-food city. AceHigh and CC404 are also close enough-ish to Pleasantville to gorge on supersteak if the need arose - And in most cases where you need supersteak, you're on your way to IC anyway.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 09:10 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: fred

Just a side point, towards the top of the thread the subject of food was brought up.

There is little attraction in basing oneself in a city where there is no stamina recharge support i.e. food station. This make ACE High for example a boring place as you are rarely there. When a stamina boost is required the only way is to enter the Jungle and kill and cook things...therefore why stay in Ace High.

And is there any reason why there are now apparantly multiple Titans continuously roaaming the Island?

Just my 1o cents worth


I was thinking that, but if you're a RP-focused Joker or Robot you could get away with living in a no-food city. AceHigh and CC404 are also close enough-ish to Pleasantville to gorge on supersteak if the need arose - And in most cases where you need supersteak, you're on your way to IC anyway.



CC404 is really far away from Pleasantville in terms of stamina, because you need to cross Snow and Mountains to get there. It's like how it's easier to get to Jersey City from Manhattan than to get to Northern Bronx--you take the Holland Tunnel in one instance (low stamina cost) and drive through red lights, mired cars, and jaywalking pedestrians to a slow-moving "expressway" where you coast until you die, whereupon your skeletal remains will arrive at the destination forty years later (the car should be on cruise control, solar-powered) in the other instance (high stamina cost).

As for supersteaks, I always need them every 3 days if I'm playing a non-Joker/Robot.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred
As a player, you make an interesting choice whether or not to move to a city where there's an increased payout, or stay in the city where you are for an extra day of fighting. You don't need to one-shot out of there. One-shots used to be a lot more expensive than now, because CMJ accidentally deleted all the economy data and the system had to start over. OSTs weren't in carrot-on-stick range where you feel like travel requires you to grind to OST level--they were a luxury item for a rich level 15 person or an essential piece to someone creatively synergizing all aspects of their strategy to do a 1-day DK or something.


So that's what happened...


It was funny to read something of the effect: "I was updating something on the test server with the economy... and then I realized I was looking at the ACTUAL server's economy after I overwrote it."

I'm glad it happened, because Nicotine Gums were in the 4k-8k range in each outpost, and cost 17 Req each. ALWAYS. I spent a couple days BUYING EVERY SINGLE NICOTINE GUM in IC to throw them all out on a DK, because I like messing with economies since it gives me a power trip. It was funny to buy that last Gum for 20k+ Req, the price only change in the last 100 Gums.

In these past months, the gums are at or below 1k or so, and I'm keeping it that way. I recently destroyed 1.5k gums on the DK where I finally abandoned saving CC404. (I don't destroy OSTs or anything that players actually value and are only produced by donations. Grenades/Bombs, Medkits, Ratpacks, and Nicotine Gums are on my approved Destruction list.)

Bringing it back to topic, I abandoned saving CC404. And you're right that while I was there, I saw the Rally make NO help in the CC404 population, it was quickly forgotten after the first couple rounds when it was implemented. But that could have been very low incentive, since the 20-cig pot is bugged and it still only gives 2. That's why there has to be something to address getting out of breaches, NOT just incentives to prevent breaches. Unbreaching has little appeal to most.

PS: I'm not the anonymous fred.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 04:18 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Rally's fixed now, btw.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 04:36 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

I'd just like to say that I think this new Council Offices deal is fantastic. Since it went active, no outposts (to my knowledge) have fallen, and I know CC would have at least gone down by now.

Also, completely unrelated question that I want to ask anyway: why can't we color dwelling names, anymore?


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 13 2011 @ 11:30 PM
By: Iriana

Content:

Rally's fixed now, btw.

How exactly was it broken? Besides the cig pot being a little wonky.

I agree with Matthew--the new readout is great. Definitely a huge step towards making breaches less of a drag.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 14 2011 @ 01:11 PM
By: Maniak

Content:

Quote by: Iriana

Rally's fixed now, btw.

How exactly was it broken? Besides the cig pot being a little wonky.

I agree with Matthew--the new readout is great. Definitely a huge step towards making breaches less of a drag.



The cig pot would set itself from 20 to 3 after a successful sign-up. Right now, there's a nice cig pot of 26 cigarettes, from only 2 players. And I intend to win it!


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 14 2011 @ 07:27 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

I was the other player, and I just joined it to test if the winner Distraction mentioned that the winner would get 20+ cigs. I see it works now! Big Grin

Not that I had to test it and didn't take CMJ at his word. Wink


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 14 2011 @ 08:49 PM
By: Sonny

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred



In these past months, the gums are at or below 1k or so, and I'm keeping it that way. I recently destroyed 1.5k gums on the DK where I finally abandoned saving CC404. (I don't destroy OSTs or anything that players actually value and are only produced by donations. Grenades/Bombs, Medkits, Ratpacks, and Nicotine Gums are on my approved Destruction list.)



Just wanted to mention that I think these items are valuable. Knowing that you destroy them just for fun is ... disturbing. Eek!
Especially after the many months it took to get back to moderate prices...

On topic: Thanks for the changes! Seeing the threat levels in the council offices is really neat. If this proves to work in the long run, maybe further changes aren't necessary so soon.

Food (and buff food) in all outposts would help a lot. Longer access to the bank too. As already mentioned, there's no fun in dying because one lacks the money to heal in between, or buy grenades, ration packs etc. (Yes, Fred, your destroying them does not help the survival of the outposts Wink )

So to go there and fight, there should be ways to get stamina, buffs, deposit req etc., something that makes them at least equal to other outposts and worth visiting.
Somewhere someone mentioned quests tied to outpost threat levels. I like this idea. Maybe even getting a reward for killing a certain number of monsters there, or till one finds the "leader" of the current group of attacking monsters, or an especially strong monster. The council offices should give you the quests, because they should know about these things.
Several small things together can help a lot. Smile


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 15 2011 @ 05:43 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Sonny

Quote by: Awesome+Fred



In these past months, the gums are at or below 1k or so, and I'm keeping it that way. I recently destroyed 1.5k gums on the DK where I finally abandoned saving CC404. (I don't destroy OSTs or anything that players actually value and are only produced by donations. Grenades/Bombs, Medkits, Ratpacks, and Nicotine Gums are on my approved Destruction list.)



Just wanted to mention that I think these items are valuable. Knowing that you destroy them just for fun is ... disturbing. Eek!
Especially after the many months it took to get back to moderate prices...

On topic: Thanks for the changes! Seeing the threat levels in the council offices is really neat. If this proves to work in the long run, maybe further changes aren't necessary so soon.

Food (and buff food) in all outposts would help a lot. Longer access to the bank too. As already mentioned, there's no fun in dying because one lacks the money to heal in between, or buy grenades, ration packs etc. (Yes, Fred, your destroying them does not help the survival of the outposts Wink )

So to go there and fight, there should be ways to get stamina, buffs, deposit req etc., something that makes them at least equal to other outposts and worth visiting.
Somewhere someone mentioned quests tied to outpost threat levels. I like this idea. Maybe even getting a reward for killing a certain number of monsters there, or till one finds the "leader" of the current group of attacking monsters, or an especially strong monster. The council offices should give you the quests, because they should know about these things.
Several small things together can help a lot. Smile



Before the economy getting deleted, prices were very stagnant from things not getting purchased very often. Again, there were thousands of Nicotine Gums that most people never use because most people value their cigs too precious for a fighting buff just sitting around, and grenades stock up really quick from the number of Rookies that sell every day. Medkits and Ratpacks I don't destroy often at all, and I do use them from time to time. But they're fair game if I come across them in crates before a DK, because they're usually never a precious resource that's sought after anyway, unlike OSTs, Energy Drinks, and Monster Repellants. I'm trying to keep the economy a bit more fluid. Trust me, I'll stop way before the game gets unplayably expensive for everyone.

If you're ever 3 Req short for a BANG grenade and you're sitting at 1 health, 19.99% stamina, and an opponent with 1 health, and you had no gear yet to sell back, but you needed to kill that one last enemy to prevent a breach from happening, I welcome you to curse my name. Wink


Now fighting my urge to stay off topic, I realize now that we need to reward players to keeping a Breach off to make an incentive for people to fight breaches, but it can't be so good that a player will let a city fall so they can fight a breach.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 15 2011 @ 05:49 PM
By: Wongo+the+Sane

Content:

I'm glad you're not just destroying Medkits for the sake of it.
I'm still pineing for the days of 10req small medkits when I did my first Bastard Rank DK.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 15 2011 @ 07:27 PM
By: tehdave

Content:

Quote by: Wongo+the+Sane

I'm glad you're not just destroying Medkits for the sake of it.
I'm still pineing for the days of 10req small medkits when I did my first Bastard Rank DK.



Oh, the joys of Bastard Rank, and the actual use of the medkits... Damnit you're making me want to do another one now >.<
(Maybe if I keep some gear to sell off for a half-decent weapon to start, it'll happen)

On-topic, I like the council office change, though I think the reduced req payouts should really only be happening if there's an outpost at some sort of threatened level as it punishes low-DK characters. For instance:
PHP Formatted Code
A mechanical readout mounted on the wall gives the threat levels for the various Outposts on the Island:

Improbable Central: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
Cyber City 404: Minor Activity
NewHome: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
Kittania: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
New Pittsburgh: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
Pleasantville: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
Squat Hole: Peaceful Days (reduced Requisition payouts)
AceHigh: Minor Activity


No outpost is currently threatened (Minor Activity I wouldn't call Threatened) and yet there's only 2 outposts with normal req payouts. Maybe if each threatened level increased req payouts slightly? so instead of only getting the increased payouts if the city is about to fall, you get them as long as you're keeping it from getting to that point.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 15 2011 @ 09:11 PM
By: Maniak

Content:

Are you complaining the new system works too well? Don't worry, I predict the novelty will wear off.

Maniak. For all your predictions. Get yours today!
Disclaimer: not an actual advertisement. Please do not actually apply for a prediction. Predicted predictions may or may not be accurate. We also own the tagline business.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 15 2011 @ 09:32 PM
By: Sonny

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Quote by: Sonny

Quote by: Awesome+Fred



In these past months, the gums are at or below 1k or so, and I'm keeping it that way. I recently destroyed 1.5k gums on the DK where I finally abandoned saving CC404. (I don't destroy OSTs or anything that players actually value and are only produced by donations. Grenades/Bombs, Medkits, Ratpacks, and Nicotine Gums are on my approved Destruction list.)



Just wanted to mention that I think these items are valuable. Knowing that you destroy them just for fun is ... disturbing. Eek!
Especially after the many months it took to get back to moderate prices...

On topic: Thanks for the changes! Seeing the threat levels in the council offices is really neat. If this proves to work in the long run, maybe further changes aren't necessary so soon.

Food (and buff food) in all outposts would help a lot. Longer access to the bank too. As already mentioned, there's no fun in dying because one lacks the money to heal in between, or buy grenades, ration packs etc. (Yes, Fred, your destroying them does not help the survival of the outposts Wink )

So to go there and fight, there should be ways to get stamina, buffs, deposit req etc., something that makes them at least equal to other outposts and worth visiting.
Somewhere someone mentioned quests tied to outpost threat levels. I like this idea. Maybe even getting a reward for killing a certain number of monsters there, or till one finds the "leader" of the current group of attacking monsters, or an especially strong monster. The council offices should give you the quests, because they should know about these things.
Several small things together can help a lot. Smile



Before the economy getting deleted, prices were very stagnant from things not getting purchased very often. Again, there were thousands of Nicotine Gums that most people never use because most people value their cigs too precious for a fighting buff just sitting around, and grenades stock up really quick from the number of Rookies that sell every day. Medkits and Ratpacks I don't destroy often at all, and I do use them from time to time. But they're fair game if I come across them in crates before a DK, because they're usually never a precious resource that's sought after anyway, unlike OSTs, Energy Drinks, and Monster Repellants. I'm trying to keep the economy a bit more fluid. Trust me, I'll stop way before the game gets unplayably expensive for everyone.

If you're ever 3 Req short for a BANG grenade and you're sitting at 1 health, 19.99% stamina, and an opponent with 1 health, and you had no gear yet to sell back, but you needed to kill that one last enemy to prevent a breach from happening, I welcome you to curse my name. Wink


Now fighting my urge to stay off topic, I realize now that we need to reward players to keeping a Breach off to make an incentive for people to fight breaches, but it can't be so good that a player will let a city fall so they can fight a breach.



Good to hear Smile

Yes, could be the novelty. But it seems to work for now. Better than nothing ^^


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 16 2011 @ 12:46 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Mack

Quote by: Matthew



And maybe newer players shouldn't be subject to reduced req rewards until around the 5th DK or so. After all, as a rookie, leaving NewHome is a tall order!



Another easy solution would be to make Newhome always put out at 1x req rates. It's not like it would ever come under a real threat, so long as titans were kept down.

This.

Reduced/increased payouts are a fine incentive -- it seems we players are rather a mercenary lot, and on the whole quite willing to go where the money is -- but I am concerned that the fix makes it harder for brand-new rookies struggling through their first DK.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 16 2011 @ 11:08 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Ashtu

Quote by: Beeps

....That beach south of New Pittsburgh kind of looks like the Middle East...


How can the Middle East be in the South West?


Improbably.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 16 2011 @ 11:05 PM
By: Ashtu

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

....That beach south of New Pittsburgh kind of looks like the Middle East...


How can the Middle East be in the South West?


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 16 2011 @ 10:17 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:





really?


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 16 2011 @ 10:21 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

We need a war to stimulate the economy. That beach south of New Pittsburgh kind of looks like the Middle East...


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 17 2011 @ 12:15 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: dizzyizzy

really?


Yeeeeeeah, hence my suggestion earlier in this thread.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 17 2011 @ 12:29 AM
By: Iriana

Content:

(For the record, Matthew's suggestion was fixed 1x req payouts at NewHome, since it never falls anyways.
In the future, we should probably try and specifically restate suggestions if we're bringing them up again on another page. Save some confusion.)

I think that something similar is a good idea; but how about only having reduced payouts if everyone is clustered at an outpost? I mean, instead of having fixed rates at NH and lower rates everywhere else when not under siege resulting in people flocking to NH to gather req when they're not needed, only have "reduced req payouts" if a certain number of players are all hangin' out at Kittania or something. If the idea behind all this, along with preventing breaches, was to encourage travel.

Sorry, that was sort of inexpertly phrased, but I guess it does get kind of frustrating to be stuck at Level 1 with nothing but bare skin because we were doing too good a job of keeping the outposts up.

Also, question: does adjusted req payouts fall under the rookie protection from breach effects? I'm guessing not. Perhaps it should.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 17 2011 @ 12:35 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Iriana

(For the record, Matthew's suggestion was fixed 1x req payouts at NewHome, since it never falls anyways.)


My suggestion was actually thus:
Quote by: MatthewCould req-gains everywhere be normalized (1x), if and only if all the outposts are "Peaceful Days" across the board? And maybe newer players shouldn't be subject to reduced req rewards until around the 5th DK or so.[/p]


Though, Mack's might actually be better from a code standpoint. Less hooks in a jungle fight, so less server load?


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: January 17 2011 @ 02:20 AM
By: Iriana

Content:

Ooh. Sorry. I thought I saw you quoted somewhere and assumed (wrongly) that that was the suggestion you were talking about. Well, I was right about one thing--we do have to restate re-suggested suggestions! Apologies.

What you said, then.


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: February 01 2011 @ 11:02 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Has an outpost fallen since this was instated?


Re: Re: Onslaught Poll MoTD

Posted on: February 01 2011 @ 11:06 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

I believe CC404 has once or twice, but it was short-lasting.


The Improbable Island Enquirer - Forum
http://enquirer.improbableisland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=21092