Okay, yeah, this one's a stinker. Can't win 'em all.
Would it suck less if Jill didn't join you as a companion?
Other ideas for making this suck less?
EDIT: Some background. The player will initially come across this quest on their first DK, just after they hit level two. Jill will be lv1, with ten hitpoints and atk and def values of .5 of your own (now raised to .8). Healing her is now free, and happens automatically between fights. I can stick in some text where she asks you to take it easy, look for easy fights, take it slow, that sort of thing - and I can give her a readout of how much Req she's gotten, and probably reduce that value too.
However, the question we really want to be asking ourselves is... well, is it still gonna suck?
I didn't think it was that bad, even though some of the details that 'you' reveal about 'yourself' could contradict what you've already established for the character, or will establish. Having your character say they aren't ex-military is interesting when many characters on the Island are.
And I think having her join you as a short-term companion lends weight to the whole thing, though having req rewards split in half is kind of obnoxious. And isn't the hospital bill to heal Jill kinda expensive? It was for me, anyway.
I don't see what the problem is, this is for new players is it not? As an old hand it's nothing special, but then it's a nice introductory thing I would say. We've been on this Island far too long, it's quite hard to remember just what it's like as a new comer. Having someone help you in the jungle is probably a nice little bonus. On the other hand, is it possible for Jill to use her own req to heal up? Seeing as how she's taking half of it and all. I don't know quite how that works, seeing as how I'm going in as a veteran robot, and the whole thing's set up for rookies.
Yeah, I enjoyed Jill, CMJ - no, she's not The Stranger, but so what? I enjoyed having her follow me around, and testing what her limits were.
I was happy to have her join me, we fought a couple of battles and I thought she was doing ok, but then turned around and she's lying messily all over the jungle floor (lucky it seeps up blood without any permanent stains), me shouting "Medic" and her taken off to the Failboat. It all was over so fast, from her arriving to being taken away with a gash on her head was all of 60 seconds.
Probably cause I was focusing on that new battle timing thing where you have to count the seconds in your head and try to attack at the right time, I wasn't reading the text properly, and didn't see her getting slashed up. Haven't quite got used to it, feels like I'm rushing all the time. As long as its just a bonus if you get the timing close, and not a penalty if the timing is off, I guess its ok, I can try to ignore it. Although its a bit like the old "try NOT to think of a pink pachyderm" mind trick, where its impossible cause its just been stuck in your head.
at first i thought it was working out to be the back story of one of the mercs in IC, but then i stopped in and saw that her name was Crazy Jane, so not.
the dialogue was nice; the combat turned into a game of make sure she doesn't die. i'm glad she only stuck around for a short while... but then again, it's been a long time since i was a rook; i can imagine how it might be interesting and possibly useful to new player.
and it does set up a later meeting, when we can see what her blacksmith muscles have done in the interim.
...Aww, she's dead!
I don't know, I actually kind of liked it. From a story standpoint, it was nice to meet a normal person (let's face it, the rest of us are weird folks). Useless as she probably would have been as a fighting companion, I would have liked her to stick around for a bit more. Too bad she died during the first Easy fight I attempted.
I enjoyed it. I was paying attention to her health and doing my best to keep her alive. I overestimated my own abilities and that's what got her Failboated for me. I would like to see her again. As an intro/helpful RP device, I liked it.
I actually enjoyed it immensely... right up until the bit where she got KO'd, which I mostly didn't like because I didn't see it coming at all.
I mean, at first I was worried about her, because she had only half my Hitpoints, but then I saw that she healed automatically between fights, and there was no button saying something like "Protect Jill" or "Fight Defensively" or something. What that meant was that there was nothing I could do to change my character's behavior to protect her, and nothing I could do to change her behavior to protect her, and because of that I assumed that the quest was engineered to have only a single ending where Jill survives and everything is hunky-dory.
Then she took massive damage from a monster twice as strong as her and got dragged off to the failboat and I was like "Wait, what?"
I mean, there is a good ending, right? It's not that there's just one ending and it's the bad one?
Assuming there is a good ending, there really needs to be some way to protect Jill from harm. Because as it is, I felt like I got the bad ending from a twist of fate rather than from making bad choices, and that's never fun. I actually got myself knocked out on purpose to see if there was an additional piece of the quest which triggered on the FailBoat, because it just didn't feel like it was over. I felt like since she got hurt -- possibly killed -- and there was nothing I could have done to stop it, there had to be something more to the story, something I could do to make it all be okay after all.
Basically, as long as there's a bad ending, there needs to be some way to make the player feel like it's actually their fault if that's the ending they get, like it's not just bad luck. Because as it is it feels like some kind of "Life sucks, people die and sometimes there's nothing you can do" thing, which just isn't cool. Sure, that's how it works in real life, but Improbable Island is the last place I expected to get a reminder of that.
well, at first I was pretty enraged... I was at a point where I was just spamming through suicidal fights, didn't need any help, and she starts cutting my req payouts in half. I got her killed as fast as I possibly could. One of the things I see most often from rookies is complaints about a lack of req... cutting their payments in half probably isn't the way to help them with that.
She doesn't stick long enough to become a true bother, I say.
Quite an interesting event, a (small) sort of introduction to mercenaries perhaps? But then Some details would be needed for youngins' who go hire their first buddy, such as the no-half-req-loss part of the deal and such.
Hey hey! It wasn't sucky it wasn't boring and it didn't suck. At least, from my point of view. She took half my req from jungle fights, so? I mean, I nabbed the quest unknowingly after it'd been tweaked for her to self heal, and I've got kinda beasty stats for level two at current, so those blacksmith arms of hers were getting in solid 20 damage hits, but from a game standpoint it didn't really bother me at all. In fact, I liked having her there getting in an extra hit for me on the jungle beasties, it was useful while it lasted. Then again, I'm not really all that interested in req payouts.
From a story perspective, having it say that the character wasn't ex-military is.. Iffy? I mean, there are a lot of ex-mil people on the island. They tend to survive long enough for it to be considered nearly canon, as opposed to your average office worker who dies in the jungle and is never heard of again.
SPOILER MAYBE BELOW I DON'T KNOW
I LIKE HAVING ROSIN MAKE FRIENDS. ROBOT FRIEND WAS FUN, JILL FRIEND IS FUN. I would like to see more of them. (STRANGER WAS NOT FUN FRIEND, HOWEVER.)
I don't think it sucked. It was fairly interesting and entertaining, and a nice reminder of the whole Island story. However, I wasn't in the position of a new player.
Lose half my req for fights? Yeah, sure, I've got full kit and 20k in the bank. Whatever. Most level two rookies won't.
Make sure she doesn't die? Keeping an eye on her hitpoints (hers were scaled to mine, so at 427 or so, I had some leeway) was easy for me; I usually keep my eyes on the right side of the screen anyway, looking to see how many rounds of plasgun I have left while I'm spamming the T button. Most rookies probably won't find it so easy to keep an eye on everything. Nearly all the comments I saw in Story and Banter were along the lines of "Oh whoops, my Jill died". So maybe it does need to be easier to keep her going. I approve of the free and automatic healing.
Another thing. Perhaps a reward at the end if she does survive? Like, you gain one charm from feeling awesome about yourself? Or at least, you get the effect of a coffee, since the flavour text says you're drinking one?
I would also like a little flavour text maybe a few gamedays later, where Jill, now looking fine, waves hi to you, or something.
(By the way, Nanobug: Timed Combat gives a bonus if you get it right, but there's no penalty if you don't or don't want to. Feel free to ignore it.)
So far I haven't heard anything to suggest that declining a quest like Jill or the Stranger gives any result other than ending it--no one seems to decline, anyways!--but in the future, I was thinking that it might be interesting if after you said 'no' and walked away, it triggered an event some time in the future that resulted from your refusal. Not that I can think of any interesting form that these events could take, but.
I LIKE it.
I got her in New Pitts, which made things feel a little off-kilter when the encounter said "another minute in NewHome", but other than that, golden!
I hunted on Easy Fights only, had a Lightning Gun, and have fairly decent attack bonuses- and I barely had to heal her at all. I think maybe three times. She survived, and we parted on a high note after she got her req. quota.
The characterization of you the Narrator is nicely generic- still retaining the mentality of a Contestant at the same time. I assume the line about You not being ex-military was removed, and replaced with "you're religious"? If so, in the middle of an Improbable war, I think that actually works EXPONENTIALLY better.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" and such.
From reading the responses in this thread before I actually encountered her, I gather too that the player could not see how close she was to her req. goal before?
I liked the fact that you could track her health AND her money. It added a little weight to the story and a lot to the strategy.
Oh, I LOVE the fact that she's the lady from the home page.
Right up there with Rohit, Ryu (was it it Ryu...? The Maiko's Pan dude!!), and yes, even the Stranger, I look very much forward to seeing Jill again. Even if it's ONLY more sidequests.
Tieing any (or all!) of our new sidequest buddies into a MAJOR storyline would be the bee's knees though, Mister Dan Sir!
Reunite us with Jill and Rohit AT THE SAME TIME. Please, please please!!!!!!!!!!
This 'un's a keeper Dan, please don't kill it!!
I liked the quest, and I was able to keep her alive! Though, the having her go after so short a time was sad, it was a happy kind of sad. I felt smiley and sappy being able to help. (Wish I could now find an actual Rookie to help out like that.)
Personally I loved it, but was really disappointed when she was carted off to the failboat after only a few easy fights with me. I'm pretty low in the island ranking, only 5 DK's and trying for a Rank 6, so I had a bit against me I guess.
I tried to see if I could activate her return by going to the failboat/trying a new day and was sad I didn't get a second chance with her.
Otherwise I loved the companion fighter/plot point and think it's a good idea overall, just needs some tweaking. Maybe the suggestion of being able to defend her better could somehow be implemented...or you could find her on the failboat and try again?
Either way I usually love the canon plotlines, like the Maiko quest
More more more more more of these please!
I thought it was alright. It wasn't anything amazing, but it wasn't bad, either. I'll agree with the comments about cutting the req payout in half; it's not easy for rookies to get cash, and with their low stats, they need all they can get. One thing that struck me was the line at the end of each story segment, like "And what happens now?" It seems a bit too obviously leading, disrupting the flow a bit. But then again, for new players, this might not matter. It's probably a much better read if you are new, and aren't comparing it to some of the other storyline quests.
Quick question, though: This triggers directly on level-up for level 2 rookies, but so does the Watcher and her computer (if I'm remembering right). Will they both trigger appropriately, and if so, in what order? The unending pages of storyline might get annoying for some, and it could be jarring to have them come at you one right after the other. I'd suggest putting one or the other of those a level or two later in the game.
Unless I'm totally wrong about when the Watcher triggers, in which case, just ignore that.
I kinda liked it, and had no trouble getting her through (Of couse, it only took three easy fights on rk1, lvl13, so she didnt get a chance to get annoying.)
I agree with the others that it would be nice to see what happened afterwards with jill at some later point. Maybe after a dk or two? Returning Contestant Jill?
I lost Jill on the first fight! I wish she could have stayed around longer, but doing a rank 7 must have been hard on poor rookie Jill's first go-round. (I can relate, I have since lowered my rank ) But I never got to see what happens if you win a fight with her, since she died so quickly.
I really enjoyed the writing up to that part, though.
I liked it. From rp perspective, it appealed more to Swede than the Stranger. Loved the writing, like the fact how you pointed out she spend her whole starting req on coffee. It made feel some pity for her, yet like her too.
As for combat:
Jill joined while doing a rank 4 dk at lvl 13.
She handled herself rather well and managed to survive without any problems.
There was a small bug which Hairy Mary also reported, where her req's are mentioned twice and the first as %. Now I think the % came from her getting more then her required 110 (at level 13 that isn't too hard), and the second mention came after her healing up.
And like some others, I too would like to see some follow up.
Liked the story. Also good that she reminds the player how to get going as well with council office items, and the end of the quest is just enough money for the basic equipment, even if the earnings are only split in half.
Mind you, it felt a bit odd, since I've been around for a while and killed the drive a few times that she only approached me now and failed to realize I was a zombie doing a rank 6 difficulty. Also, I jumped straight from level 1 to level 3. She was at 500-odd health, so I thought I could keep her safe-ish for a bit, but she got dealt 10 times more damage than I was. Guess I wasn't the target audience though, huh?
Very good story and very useful for rooks.
Oh, and about her saving your butt, as long as it's not the drive or a titan she hops in to kill, it would be cool to see her again.
Oh. My. God.
I got Jill back! Granted, the quest started completely over when I did another "double-leveling," but she's back! She's really back! I totally skipped the first page of the story by accident, thinking it was a fluke I had this wall of text for no reason, then I realized what I was doing and stopped myself. "Better check for changes to the story," I told myself, "Maybe someone up the ladder saw my desperate plea for Jill's safety and has given me a second chance!" So I am. I will be very careful this time, promise! I will handle her like a delicate egg! ....which will be tricky since I'm still on a Rank 5... But I shall persevere! Plus, it seems like CMJ has made some tweaks to her since I last saw her, so I'll try to keep a careful eye on those, too.
EDIT: Aaaand, of course, as soon as I post this and finish reading the story, I notice the MotD was updated like twenty minutes ago.
Okay, finished the quest. Cigs were a good reward, I like those! And when it says it makes me feel good about myself, I honestly did! But also because usually that sort of flavor ("Flavour"?) text means something nice will happen.
So, the fighting went very smoothly. I have so many mods and buffs I didn't notice if she ever got a swing in, though she did get hit for a few points of damage a couple times. At first I didn't realize that her 33 HP was only a partial health bar, so I was afraid she'd lost health before a fight had even begun. I'm still trying to get used to the different colors and lengths of the health bar. But, once I figured it out, like I said, she seemed to do very well holding her own. A couple times I did have to throw out a grenade and discharge my Tesla Frame to finish a fight "decisively" (nice touch, by the way!), and at another point my Fire Extinguisher ran out of CO2, resulting in me just whacking things about on the head. Ah, Team Awesome were good sports about it, though, and went down easily.
I think at this point my character will be drinking himself silly at his own little private congratulatory party now! Nice work!
I like Jill.
What does "clearjilldata" do? Found that at the bottom of my list of links after I finished the quest under the heading of "debug," but it disappeared when I refreshed the page (I had timed-out).
"You look around for Jill, but you don't see her anywhere."
GOOD. I'd feel horrid if she wound up on the Failboat just after getting her basic kit! (Thankfully that tattoo mutant was kind enough to wait until she left on her own, hmm?) Also, I didn't pay any real attention, so this mention of cigarettes is something I did not notice! Good thing though, I like it still.
I had accepted the Jill quest before the optimization work, then when i came on i rejected it cause i already had Jill and then i went to fight some Easy monsters and she died in 2 fights... Is this normal?
Cause it didn't seem overly fair... i was doing easy fights so she wouldn't die and then she goes and dies in practically 5 turns (auto turns mind you)
She still can't spam suicidal quests in the nude? I can. What a n00b.
The new improvements make the whole thing much easier and more enjoyable in my opinion. I mean, it was nice to begin with. Reading the whole text leading up to her joining you, then having her die the first time, it made me actually feel guilty, and that I had somehow lost... something. A reward, a friend, a new section of the game. I dunno. I couldn't put my finger on it, but having a weak companion that you're responsible for, and actually making her a likable character, gave the whole thing more emotional weight, and I enjoyed that.
The second time around, I still enjoyed it. It got rough in some parts and I'd have to run away, but it was still fun. I'd have to say that maybe one of the few negative things about it was that, even on a character that was level two, which is where I'm supposed to meet her, she appeared in Kittania and suddenly we were in Joe's Cafe, presumably in NewHome. When the conversations over, poof, back in Kittania again. It was just odd and a bit jarring.
Jill came back, and I thought I'd give it another go seeing how atrociously I went the first time. Helps to actually read the text. We did easy fights this time. Although after using all my bang grenades to finish the fights "decisively", she nearly had enough to get some weapons and armor, and then on the last fight she nearly died. So I teleported to safety just in time.
My first time teleporting. Felt a bit queasy. More like Captain Jack Harkness using his time vortex manipulator than being in a nice TARDIS. (Yes, yes, I know, its travel in space, not time, sosumi.)
Since I've never been further than Kittania, I thought I would go further afield and try somewhere new, so picked CC404. Arrived safely, but Jill's hitpoints were still really low, since we didn't finish the last fight, she hadn't been to the hospital tent. Went to the tent, but she didn't get healed automatically, I had to pay 83 req to heal her up. Went back and killed the last monster, she got her final req and said farewell (thanks for the cigs).
Now I am stuck in Cyber City, and have no idea where on the map I am. Of course I can cheat and go and look at the Land Registry, after I travel outside the city and see what's here, but that would be cheating, right?
Ok, so I cheated. Wow! I am way up here at W38! 37 squares from New Home! I can either walk back quickly (should be less than a couple of hours), walk back slowly and check out everything along the walk (might take me at least 10 days, if I'm thorough), or use my 2nd teleporter to zip back instantly. Decisions, decisions.
Better buy some good walking boots, this may take a while.
I read the MOTD and was very happy to see that there'd be a take two. Hello, Jill! Let's fight some monsters, Jill. Good work, Jill! Oh look, you're not dead, Jill. And you can afford some panties! Aren't we the coolest?
So in the end I was satisfied, and as I said earlier, I like this little story quite a lot. Normalcy is good sometimes. A round of applause from me on this one! And in agreement with what some other people have said, I do hope to see more of Jill and our other new friends in the future.
I read the motd and had a "oh crap" moment. Not that I dislike Jill, I like her, but had a feeling that even with her improved survivability she still have a hard time at rank 7.
Even doing easy hunts, she never stood a chance...
*Buries his face in his hands*
"God Jill, I'm so sorry"
Needless to say I didn't get any cigs.
Yeah, I got a second chance after she died. Thanks for adding that to the story.
And yes, she managed to survive this time.
I was able to help her this time!
I think this quest will be great for the rookies to the island. I look forward to the possibility of running into her again. Thanks CMJ!
Will she show up on the FailBoat occasionally even if she didn't die? It was nice how she showed up again even after dying.
I liked it. I really really REALLY liked it. How you set her up made me feel for her. Fighting battles with her, was an experience.
If you left her alone she would die, so you had to take her to the hospital tent every one or two fights but so what?
Didn't cost much. And I had plenty of dough; all I had to do was sell my bang grenades that I got from the Council Office
and I could heal her all day and have 400req left over when she left (that's a really nice wad of cash lvl2 day:1 for the 1st DK), besides the stuff I gained in the jungle with her.
Fighting with her, made me feel like I had a friend,
and I was sorry to see her go and honestly wished her the best.
@Harris & Derpderp
I think Jill died... D':
I fought this face vine monster thing a week ago, who's flowers contained the heads/faces of defeated contestants.
Basically it went.
Think you see Jill's face,
rush over excited,
then notice her head is in a flower,
oh hey lots of flower vines with head and oh look an empty flower for yours,
battle begins with you tearing up and saying
"you'll be damned if you leave her here like this"
Which sucks because I was really hoping to see her later in-game ;__;
Though could still happen if Joe makes it so it was her past/future self or a doppelganger (nudge nudge wink wink)
If it actually says "Jill," then it's been changed. The way I remember it is that it simply said something like "That woman you saw when you first got here," or something similar. That said, I'd always connected it with the girl who, later, became the Jill quest.
If Jill loses all of her health, is it possible to get her back? When i went to check on her after a fight the page immediatly dissappeared
I can't help you there, Arkius, as my Jill never saw fit to lose all of her health. Sorry.
On another note, does this thread mean Jill's last name is Baker?
I can only assume as much Full Metal Lion, and i have learned that she does not die forever, she just goes to the failboat until a 'new day' comes
she instantly came back when i started a new day i mean that just happend now
and yes she does have new dialouge
I liked Jill a lot, actually! It's nice to know you've got as friend in a strange new place, even if said friend is just an NPC.
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