Subject: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 19 2011 @ 12:18 PM
By: Makiwa

Content:

*prepares to be tarred and feathered*

The guidelines regarding alts is well known(?) so I won't mention anything about that.

I'm wondering what folks think about making alts public. Say in the player listings?

Good Idea?
Bad Idea?
I'm already lighting the fire under the cauldron of tar and herding chickens to pluck?



Replies:

Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 19 2011 @ 12:56 PM
By: Maniak

Content:

How does exposing alts benefits the community?


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 19 2011 @ 02:27 PM
By: Makiwa

Content:

Quote by: Maniak

How does exposing alts benefits the community?



I've been puzzling this for a while as a result of a couple incidents involving alts - nothing life/game threatening. Just hmm, untoward shall we say. Nothing I care to discuss in detail.

For sure, decisions/actions/reactions would have been different if the alts were known at the time. And yes we're talking about rules 1,2 & 3 being broken.

Many folk who only break rule 3 (which is deemed acceptable alt behaviour) are quite open about their alts. No problem there.

If this is part of island life as things stand, it's fine. No big deal I guess.

I just wondered what others thought is all.

But let me spin the question:

How would exposing alts be detrimental to the community?


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 19 2011 @ 02:32 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

You don't do things because you can't see how they're detrimental, you do things because you see how they're beneficial.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 19 2011 @ 02:35 PM
By: Omega

Content:

Oh you see. Two alts I use are solely created for having fun as somebody else. I really don't want them to be related to each others or my character; people will start seeing them as the same person, and treat them the same way. Now think: what if somebody made a hasty judgment about one? That would make it impossible to befriend that person entirely.

Point.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 19 2011 @ 02:39 PM
By: Makiwa

Content:

Quote by: Omega

Oh you see. Two alts I use are solely created for having fun as somebody else. I really don't want them to be related to each others or my character; people will start seeing them as the same person, and treat them the same way. Now think: what if somebody made a hasty judgment about one? That would make it impossible to befriend that person entirely.

Point.



This is why I floated the question. To glean knowledge from more experienced folk.

Point taken and understood. This would not be beneficial.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 19 2011 @ 03:00 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Makiwa

I've been puzzling this for a while as a result of a couple incidents involving alts - nothing life/game threatening. Just hmm, untoward shall we say. Nothing I care to discuss in detail.

For sure, decisions/actions/reactions would have been different if the alts were known at the time. And yes we're talking about rules 1,2 & 3 being broken.

General statement (not directed at you in particular): If rules 1 and/or 2 are being broken, don't try to police it yourself.

Minor things? Just let them go. Life is not perfect.

Bigger than that, something needs to be done? Call a mod. We have the tools to handle such incidents, including the ability to see alts.

[...oh. And if you can't get hold of a mod right at the moment (because we too have lives), the best way to quench a potentially serious flareup is to ignore it. Behave as though it isn't happening, and flag one of us down later. These are comments in a database; as soon as a mod gets to it, it won't have happened.]


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 19 2011 @ 03:11 PM
By: Ashtu

Content:

Quote by: Makiwa

How would exposing alts be detrimental to the community?

Another aspect, Makiwa - it may not be detrimental to the community in general, but the knowledge could affect YOUR personal enjoyment of the Island. (I suspect we're thinking of the same case here; feel free to email or distract me, if you like.)


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 19 2011 @ 04:49 PM
By: Makiwa

Content:

Thank you all for your input. My goal is achieved. Enlightenment.

And thanks Sessine. I was aware of the procedure but glad that you reiterated. And your'e right of course. Life is not perfect. Shit happens. We move on.

I would like to say that nothing that has happened has impaired my enjoyment of II. I have loved every moment from the minute I found the Island. More accurately, the Island found me.

Good people, good times and great fun.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 20 2011 @ 12:09 AM
By: photog

Content:

I had two characters. Both characters were different people, with different goals, values, and traits. Both people also had different friends. I played each one when I felt like playing that character.

There was a person who always wanted to roleplay with my one character. I made the mistake of telling them about the other character of mine. After that, the person started messaging me as both characters, requesting I come play with them. Every time I logged in, this person was there, wanting me to log in as my one character, and come interact with them. (Sometimes I didn't, but most times I did.)

While not against any rules, and not worthy of a mod intervention, having them request I come play with them as my one character all the time became awkward and tiresome Neutral If I had wanted to always play as one person, I wouldn't have made the other character.

(Said person who always wanted me to RP with them have since left the island, but for a while it was hard, trying not to be rude but also wanting to have my fun on my own terms.)


I've also had IC disagreements with people who don't seem to understand the difference between IC and OCC. I'd rather not find out who is a bad roleplayer by having them take out their displeasure on someone who should be a total stranger to them.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 20 2011 @ 06:21 AM
By: Rosin

Content:

Quote by: Omega

people will start seeing them as the same person, and treat them the same way.



This.

Alts are supposed to be different characters entirely. Who cares if the writer is the same, that shouldn't dictate how you interact with their always-a-nice-gent character or their sometimes-a-dick character. If you ended up seeing the writer connection you'd never be able to take that away. It wouldn't be "Oh this is a good guy" and "Oh this guy can be a pain", it might be "Oh it's this writer. Well, even though this character might be a good guy his other character's a pain, so I won't write with him." And that doesn't do anyone any good.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 20 2011 @ 05:25 PM
By: Twosocks+Monkey

Content:

I'm not sure that I have much to add to this thread. For some reason I felt the need to respond however.

I regularly interact on the island with several alts and find it helpful to know who they 'really are' as it were (for plot reasons mostly).

However the knowledge of whose alts are whose is information that they chose to share with me, and I have no trouble keeping my char's interaction with them completely separate. I think overall, as we all play the island for fairly different reasons, continuing to keep it the way it is is probably the best.

You can chose to share your secrets, or not, just like in real life. And if you get screwed over sometimes by sharing your secrets with the wrong person, well...you learn and move on. Or call in a mod.

Yeah.

Not sure if that was useful. Still felt the urge to speak up. I guess like anything there are good and bad sides to using alts.

-Rose


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 20 2011 @ 09:42 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

I'd like to raise a question on the topic. Recently, a player was muted for... Some reason. I could make guesses as to why, but that's not what this is about.
In order to continue participating in an event, they made an alt. The alt was immediately extremely grabby and clingy, and refused to take even threats of violence as a hint to stop invading a character's personal space.
That's all fine and good, right? It's in character, if they want to put that forth as a personality, then so be it. It won't be liked, obviously, but it's their play style.

Two days later, the same character petitioned the mods because they felt someone else wasn't respecting their personal space, claiming that the player was the original player's sister.

Now what?


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 20 2011 @ 09:56 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

A-hem. I know the case you're talking about. They were actually in banter, talking about how unwelcoming the island was... it started with the character having an adverse reaction to the grabbiness, true, but it snowballed from there, and was all based on the actions of people who didn't know the character was an alt, if the sister story is untrue.

I called the mods. How she was being treated reached a point where it didn't matter if the character was an alt or not, nobody should be treated that way on the island. once the mods got involved, they can see that it is an alt, and deal with that accordingly.

You can say the person was just being a troll. Maybe. But they had to do disturbingly little to bring out the worst in the islanders... She, as I already said, had an adverse reaction to being randomly fondled. For this, she was told to learn how to roleplay. The alt is not the problem here.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 20 2011 @ 09:58 PM
By: photog

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Recently, a player was muted for... Some reason.



I've only ever heard of a mute being done as a punishment to players who badly pushed the rules. Someone who was muted should have not made an alt to get around the mute.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 20 2011 @ 10:15 PM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: dizzyizzy

You can say the person was just being a troll. Maybe. But they had to do disturbingly little to bring out the worst in the islanders...


Said player has a history of being very good at bringing out the worst in the islanders. Their antics have previously been described as...
Quote by: dizzyizzy

...kind of a bitch move. Rolling Eyes


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 20 2011 @ 10:40 PM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: dizzyizzy

You can say the person was just being a troll. Maybe. But they had to do disturbingly little to bring out the worst in the islanders...


Said player has a history of being very good at bringing out the worst in the islanders. Their antics have previously been described as...
Quote by: dizzyizzy

...kind of a bitch move. Rolling Eyes



Oh, I know. But what did they do, in the first case, to bring out the scorn? React in a human way? There's a massive difference between filling the island with obnoxious spam and having a personality that doesn't involve being groped constantly.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 21 2011 @ 12:09 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

I would dare say that alts being visible to everyone would go against the entire point of alts. I would even go so far as to question the ability of moderators to see which alt belongs to who.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 21 2011 @ 12:39 AM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: Matthew

I would dare say that alts being visible to everyone would go against the entire point of alts. I would even go so far as to question the ability of moderators to see which alt belongs to who.



Not necessarily, I've got several alts, and I really don't care who knows about them. I've mentioned them all in the forums.

---

On another alt related note, would it be possible to have all your alts come from the same email address? That would be nicer for me at least, so I can keep any distractions without having to have a new address for each one.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 21 2011 @ 02:25 AM
By: Zolotisty

Content:

Beeps, the player in question was indeed handled when it was not three o'bastard clock in the morning. If anyone has questions about the action moderators take with players ("why was so and so permanently muted?" "what was the resolution of this thing that i saw happening?"), you should feel free to Distract any of us, and we'll either be able to inform you or point you toward the mod who took action with the player so that they can tell you themselves.

However, I dislike players raising thinly veiled questions about their peers on the forum, especially for recently modded situation. This thread is not the place to pose hypotheticals regarding what happens when a player is being a dick with their alt; that's the place of the mods to work, and as you correctly implied, the player was being a dick. Surprise, surprise, guess what happens when you're breaking rule one on the Island. Confused

Anyway, Matthew, it is important that the moderators know whose accounts are whose. Alts are not always used for roleplay purposes. If we've got a troll in NewHome who happens to be spawning hydra heads, or someone's doing some cheaty bastard shit with the game mechanics, then that's not only good to know, but sort of imperative. And for those folks who do use alts for RP and lulz: it's usually safe to say that if you're being a dick on one of your accounts, your behavior immediately puts your other accounts in danger.

I'm of two minds about RP alts. On the one hand, I'm a roleplayer. I understand the appeal of being mistaken for a new player who doesn't have any history with Islanders, either IC or OOC. Sometimes it's good to get away from your usual crowd and your usual character to play a different personality. It's liberating. You can do some stuff that you don't normally do.

On the other hand, this kind of meta-roleplay -- a roleplayer roleplaying a roleplayer, if you will -- usually goes hand in hand with a level of dishonesty that a lot of people find inoffensive in the moment, as they're doing it. But in practice, it can have some farther reaching ramifications. I know I have personally hurt feelings and betrayed trusts by pretending to be an alt, even for a little while, and carrying the meta-fiction too far. I've seen lots of other people do it too, and it's shit. If that example is too ethereal for you, here's a related example that's rather more concrete.

This is a fictionalized version of an actual snippet taken from a clanless Rookie's Natter feed. The two characters here are played by the same person:

Smarmo The Third says, "GOSH would like to invite you to consider membership."
Jungle Creeper says, "Don't listen to him. DANG is the real clan to be in."

That is a dick use of an alt, and when you're the same person running more than one clan (itself a dick move), you are going to end up with a lot of outrage and hurt when your lies are either unmasked or happen crumble around you. It's another damn good reason for mods to be aware of who is who, and it's a level of dishonesty that makes me think we really should to unmask alts.

My gut says no, though. The dickery is easy enough for the mods to track and doesn't make our jobs any harder.

For the record, clan leaders: if your clan has a no alt policy (i.e., "we'd prefer you spend your energy with us, instead of splitting it among a few different clans"), feel free to Distract me to check up on an applicant. I'll confirm whether or not the player's got an alt, without tellin' you who the alt is.

ALSO, ALL OF THIS WON'T BE A PROBLEM IN S3 AHAHAHA--


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 21 2011 @ 02:30 AM
By: dizzyizzy

Content:

that last line scares me... I really don't want to have to choose who to keep as my main. I play two vastly different characters for a reason.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 21 2011 @ 02:47 AM
By: Zolotisty

Content:

It scared you in the wrong direction, good sir. Smile And that's all I will say about that.


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 21 2011 @ 02:49 AM
By: Beeps

Content:

Quote by: Zolotisty

Beeps, the player in question was indeed handled when it was not three o'bastard clock in the morning. If anyone has questions about the action moderators take with players ("why was so and so permanently muted?" "what was the resolution of this thing that i saw happening?"), you should feel free to Distract any of us, and we'll either be able to inform you or point you toward the mod who took action with the player so that they can tell you themselves.

However, I dislike players raising thinly veiled questions about their peers on the forum, especially for recently modded situation. This thread is not the place to pose hypotheticals regarding what happens when a player is being a dick with their alt; that's the place of the mods to work, and as you correctly implied, the player was being a dick. Surprise, surprise, guess what happens when you're breaking rule one on the Island. Confused


Doing precisely this now.

Quote by: Zolotisty

On the other hand, this kind of meta-roleplay -- a roleplayer roleplaying a roleplayer, if you will -- usually goes hand in hand with a level of dishonesty that a lot of people find inoffensive in the moment, as they're doing it. But in practice, it can have some farther reaching ramifications. I know I have personally hurt feelings and betrayed trusts by pretending to be an alt, even for a little while, and carrying the meta-fiction too far. I've seen lots of other people do it too, and it's shit.



I'm entirely guilty of this. I think everyone is aware of this, though, as it was explained (In detail, to some unfortunate souls who actually asked) once the events had transpired. I never got any complaints, but if people don't like what I'm doing, I entirely invite them to tell me so. I can't get better if I'm not told what people don't like. That said, if your complaint is that I'm a rabbit with a (bad) cockney accent, you may just have to deal with it. Cool


Re: Alternative Characters

Posted on: March 21 2011 @ 04:08 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Zolotisty

On the one hand, I'm a roleplayer. I understand the appeal of being mistaken for a new player who doesn't have any history with Islanders, either IC or OOC. Sometimes it's good to get away from your usual crowd and your usual character to play a different personality. It's liberating. You can do some stuff that you don't normally do.


This is what I'd meant by 'spoiling the point of alts'. If everyone knows its you, on some level, subconscious or not, they're going to treat you differently than they would otherwise, and that just seems like it defeats the entire purpose of creating an RP alt to begin with.

Quote by: Zolotisty

Alts are not always used for roleplay purposes. If we've got a troll in NewHome who happens to be spawning hydra heads, or someone's doing some cheaty bastard shit with the game mechanics, then that's not only good to know, but sort of imperative.


Yes- you're right. Sometimes I forget that most people on the internet are nasty and horrible, and I'm glad that I've come to assume that everyone on Improbable Island is an Upstanding Internet Citizen. I guess some aforementioned leak through the cracks, and tend not to last too long.
(Don't mean to passive-aggressively insult anyone by saying that, by the way. If I thought someone was nasty and horrible, I would have already let them know, really.)

Quote by: Beeps

That said, if your complaint is that I'm a rabbit with a (bad) cockney accent, you may just have to deal with it. Cool



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