Also, as far as the herbs go... are we going to lose them at the start of each new day? If so, is there going to be a place where we can sell the excess or are they just completely wasted? Questions that are kicking around in my head at least.
No thread yet? Let's fix that.
Oh! I'm rather excited about the new cooking system. Much as I like my noodle plus steak fix, I am looking forward to less certainty and more interest.
Oh, and fake edit: please add a restaurant to Improbable Central.
Especially now that it's being attacked a lot!
Improbable Central is the only city that doesn't need restaurants, I'm going to decree. That city is too important for every other reason--it won't ever be stuck in the CC404/NewPitts/AceHigh problem of the past without those restaurants.
Besides, if Meat+Herbs is done in certain ways, that might devalue the necessity of restaurants.
Improbable Central is the only city that doesn't need restaurants, I'm going to decree. That city is too important for every other reason--it won't ever be stuck in the CC404/NewPitts/AceHigh problem of the past without those restaurants.
Truth be told, I'm one of those outpost defenders, and I DID go on holiday as far as the game is concerned, so I'm probably working off past perception. But how often has the city been breached? If I remember rightly, the walls are still enormous. I could totally be wrong, though, I grant you that.
The walls are taller than a Titan on stilts and thicker than an elderly drunk Midget. Breaches are few in the land of the GargleBlast.
The walls are taller than a Titan on stilts and thicker than an elderly drunk Midget. Breaches are few in the land of the GargleBlast.
Oh man I haven't been in Ace High for so long I forgot there wasn't even a restaurant there.
That's a little sad.
Releasing tomorrow. Man I'm tired.
It's been worse lately. I think the outpost defenders must have gone on holidays, or else they're getting tired of beating back the hordes.
Releasing tomorrow. Man I'm tired.
And (I asssume from the countdown to being taken down for maintenance) being implemented...now!
I'm excited about the new system, even though I'm wary about having to both fork over increased req and ingredients to the restaurants. (You'd think they'd have a stock!) Once I have a steady idea of what makes a 'good' meal, I probably will stop using the restaurants all together if this is going to stick. I can't wait until some puts together some sort of guide of meals/herbs/what have you~.
Also, as far as the herbs go... are we going to lose them at the start of each new day? If so, is there going to be a place where we can sell the excess or are they just completely wasted? Questions that are kicking around in my head at least.
I'm excited about the new cooking system too. Mainly, I just like new things. Ooooh shiny.
both fork over increased req and ingredients to the restaurants.
Yeah I'm sorry but I have to say it: this shit is dumb. I don't go to a restaurant in real life and expect to have to supply my own ingredients. That's the entire point of going to a restaurant.
Oh, misunderstood how it worked. welp. My bad, I apologize.
Also, your shit is dumb
both fork over increased req and ingredients to the restaurants.
Also, your shit is dumb
I have a .gif of raspberries. Does that help?
I have a .gif of raspberries. Does that help?
Is this now a .gif thread?
Someone find me an appropriate reaction gif. I want someone blowing a raspberry.
Is this now a .gif thread?
Is this now a .gif thread?
Is this now a .gif thread?
After playing around with the new system: food is way too goddamn expensive. I mean really. I can't fill up without apparently needing tens of thousands of req. And if it's too expensive for me, it's downright astronomical for new players.
Is this supposed to encourage us to cook for ourselves and only eat out if we're rich bastards? Man, that's way too much like real life.
After playing around with the new system: food is way too goddamn expensive. I mean really. I can't fill up without apparently needing tens of thousands of req. And if it's too expensive for me, it's downright impossible for new players.
Is this supposed to encourage us to cook for ourselves and only eat out if we're rich bastards? Man, that's way too much like real life.
Is this now a .gif thread?
After playing around with the new system: food is way too goddamn expensive. I mean really. I can't fill up without apparently needing tens of thousands of req. And if it's too expensive for me, it's downright astronomical for new players.
I agree... I remember being a rookie and thinking it was the height of insanity to pay 500 whole req for a steak - and that steak was filling, healthy, nutritious, and gave a good stam boost! I spent most of my second DK ruing my choice to play kittymorph, because I could no longer use grenade money to buy food. Think of the poor newbies.
edit again: After looking around, most of the food in most outposts seem pretty reasonable (though I'd still decrease the prices a little honestly, no one thing of food should cost more than maybe 700 req. That's the most that's reasonable for a new player).
Pleasantville and Kittania food are fucking insane. 2500 for a steak. Wow! No new player will ever be able to afford that. Most veterans probably have a hard time affording that!
Edit once more: I like how my hunger increases as I play. That's pretty cool, I can eat more I guess.. The problem is though that food is way too expensive and the food that isn't expensive is really not even worth the money (200 req for 2% stamina?). So I guess I just starve forever.
I like the system, it seems really cool. Food being made way less expensive would probably go a long way towards making it function better. Maybe there's something I'm missing. Maybe I'm supposed to be cooking my own food. I dunno!
For those of us who like collecting and playing with data and working out how to maximise effectiveness of this and that...
I've started tabulating the info I've got so far.
For those of us who like collecting and playing with data and working out how to maximise effectiveness of this and that...
I've started tabulating the info I've got so far.
More thoughts the more I play with it: I'm getting more used to it, liking it more. The huge increase in your hunger gauge as you sleep a new day and then the increase as you fight is pretty cool, actually.
The old model: starve yourself for two days, binge on three steaks the third, repeat. Nobody does this in real life. Nobody healthy.
New model: each day, you wake up, fight until you're hungry/tired, eat a big meal, go out and fight until you're ready to go to bed. Doing this each day averages out to about the same amount of fighting done if not more. It's more realistic and reasonable and I can appreciate that. I like it.
Still, the biggest problem is that any food that's any good is way out of reasonable budget range for any new players and most established players, even.
Going on: robots should be able to eat robot-only food from Cyber City. It would go a long way towards making robot tolerable. The lack of a med-tent is fine- you can get around that with clan auras, chem pack, the cooldown function - it makes sense that they'd have an alternative. I like that, too. It's the no food that mostly damns them to uselessness, I think. Maybe some batteries they can buy and plug in once a new day or something, I don't know.
Back on topic: new system is/would be pretty great if the food cost was rebalanced more in line with what they were in the old system. I don't even mind the herb thing because you can just pluck them as you travel about the map. Encourages you to get out there and walk to other cities. That's a plus.
aside: New Pittsburgh food is still worthless and there is no reason to eat there ever.
Edit: was just informed robots do have stuff in Cyber City. SHOWS HOW HIP AND WITH THE TIMES I AM I GUESS :V
edit edit: thought: maybe a thing in the comms tent or council offices where we can pay a cig to see which foods are available in which restaurants that game day? Better solution than walking all over the place and looking yourself, because then oh whoops there goes all of your stamina.
Still, the biggest problem is that any food that's any good is way out of reasonable budget range for any new players and most established players, even.
Still, the biggest problem is that any food that's any good is way out of reasonable budget range for any new players and most established players, even.
Can we get a warning when we're about to eat a food that will make us throw up? I thought I had room to eat what I just did, but not only did I lose all the req it cost to eat the food, I ended up losing at least 20% stam as well.
Question -
Is it intended that you can only clean two corpses out of a pack of monsters, now? The rest simply vanish.
I posted a petition about it last night, but it was closed without comment.
How do I find the herbs?
I don't see them on the map.
Oh, there's some ScroteWeed. dank. Never mind.
Now I just need to find Maiko's pan so I can train in cooking some more.
Still, the biggest problem is that any food that's any good is way out of reasonable budget range for any new players and most established players, even.
Yeah, but can you save that every game day as a rookie, or even someone with less than 10 DKs? Probably not. They have a hard enough time scratching enough together for a chainsaw.
Actually, I could do it about every sixth gameday. And yeah, it DID make it hard to save much more than that at any given time, what with healing costs, and getting killed in the jungle, but my point about whether or not the food prices are affordable still stands.
And hell, eating, healing AND gear shopping all at once is almost always difficult, no matter what DK/level you are.
It's also a little weird seeing our two little cat things posting back and forth. Heh.
OH GOD THE CATS ARE TALKING TO EACH OTHER
Now you both have to never change your avatars, or I'll look insane here.
Still, the biggest problem is that any food that's any good is way out of reasonable budget range for any new players and most established players, even.
Quick! Donk, Matthew, Harris, and kinda-sorta me! We need to monetize this! You hop into this basket, and I'll go find a crazy lady!
OH GOD THE CATS ARE TALKING TO EACH OTHER
Now you both have to never change your avatars, or I'll look insane here.
If I may momentarily bring up the new food system for a brief moment.
I've played with it a bit, and it is much more interesting than the old system. The way that you can fill up, work off some energy and then eat some more. I do like it.
Now. I'm a dedicated builder. The new system makes building harder unless you're close to a an outpost, but there are ways around that. I need to play a bit and work it out, but it seems like it can be done.
BUT. The new system seems to make scrap hunting in the scrapyard quite a lot harder, as that works only on how much stamina that you can get together at once. You can't use some up and then refill. I don't know if I'm missing something here, (probably), but I thought that the scrapyard was expensive enough as it was. Not too expensive, but enough. I'm alright - as I already have a scrap hunting skill of 90, but this might start to push it over the top for new programmers.
May I suggest, as a way to offset this a little, some sort of Hunter's Lodge item which increases your effectiveness in the scrapyard?
I will emphasise though the rather obvious point that I'm still new to this, and don't really know how it all works. I'm still playing.
I'm playing with this new food system too, and ... yes, it's interesting, and it's somewhat more realistic, and it's highly entertaining, but I also find it a lot less userfriendly.
It's also considerably less conducive to building and scrap-gathering, as HM says. It's so frustrating to eat to the point of puking with a paltry 315% (after running around collecting ingredients), go into the Scrapyard, and get nearly a fifth fewer items than I'm used to ... while watching that Hunger bar climbing again as I collect.
(Also I find it confusing that the bar starts full and we empty it by filling up. I'd prefer a Fullness bar which started empty (or somewhat full if you overate on the previous gameday/s) and then filled up as you ate, then overfilled as you overate. And I'd definitely like some numbers on it - every other bar lets you see the figures! HP, stamina, XP, inventory weight, etc.)
Oh, and, now cooking pan and herbs taking up space in backpack - so you need to recalibrate your inventory's capacity, for filling with Contraptions, Contrivances, building kits and materials!
So, I say hell yeah to a Lodge item to make Scrap-gathering easier.
It would need to cost considerably less than a Programmer's Box ($15 for 232 C&Cs = $0.065 per Contraption or Contrivance) and a Creator Bundle ($25 for 580 C&Cs and a massive load more stuff = $0.043 per C or C), though I'm not sure what the exact numbers should be.
Final thought on the numbers of this proposed IItem: if it worked like a Builder's Brew, cutting your Scrap-Gathering cost by 90%, then ... say if normally you can gather 100 items in one trip, you wouldn't be able to gather 1000 by using one of those unless you made several Scrapyard trips in one gameday, because of the exponentially-rising stamina cost of an overloaded backpack. Even with a full-size backpack with only the minimum cooking pan in it, you can only fit in 31 items before the overloading starts.
will have to do for cats, as my hamstavatar is scurrying away in trepidation.
I was going to potentially suggest energy drinks but after some testing they've been nearfed too 35 till the neasia bar shows up and only a return of 74.88% stam when before they would give 5 stam even each for 175% for the lot of them seems no matter what you do you have to spend some time getting hungry again and avoid getting too full.. this will likely make building far more costly on ost's since my places are generally a bit out there.
From A normal game standpoint I think the feature is neat and cool shinny new thing..
from a builder standpoint.. I don't like it really.. seems like I'm losing a significant (100-200stam) I used to be able t build with to make my brews more effective and it is driving up my build costs higher which means build times are even more of a event to plan then they were before. The builder in me is very wary.
Agreed about the cost of building... it's definitely made buying builder's brew look a lot less attractive, given that you can't fill up as much before you use it. I hadn't even thought of how it would affect the Scrapyard... yikes.
Also, is it just me, or is the new system even more skewed to Pleasantville than it was before? I can't really understand why you would bother to eat anywhere else, whereas before NewHome and Kittania had good options, and you could use energy drinks in other outposts. And even then... that's a lot of money to spend in Pville for a filled-up hunger gauge and not as much stamina as before (and maybe a huge fat gain, too).
People are complaining about the new system being too difficult?
YES.
Time to get back to the island and try it out. This is a common symptom of people who have grown FAT on their PAST LAURELS.
I'm not complaining about the difficulty... I'm concerned at getting a decent return when building and the costs It'll take to do a comparable build.
If I have to use my bed teleport to seems like Pleasentville
Eat well, but not to full because I really don't want to risk getting sick while building
teleport to central get my building supplies and teleport home, after being sure to check the kittens and the common ground for stam boosts
- this was my normal costs and I used to be about 15000 for osts value about, and 3750 req for food.
I'm estimating I could maybe make 1/2 trips back to pleasentville at what.. 7k a trip to eat again with the new system.. I'm not sure I haven't tested.. but it does double building costs for someone to try to get max effectiveness of a brew. if you can even eat that much..
I feel wary is all about the change. I do want to get as much effectiveness from my brews as I can.. and I think that should be understandable.. there is defentatly going to need to be a new brew/building strategy.. and as said the scrapyard is a whole different beast as well.
I think something that would make building less of a concern is if you could get 'take home' versions of food from the restaurants that have a till newday shelf life.. that would help a lot with the building concerns.. and if you add an ability to, take a break while scraping to eat an item you have.. without giving up access to the yard it may help...
I'm concerned at getting a decent return when building and the costs It'll take to do a comparable build.
- this was my normal costs and I used to be about 15000 for osts value about, and 3750 req for food.
double building costs for someone to try to get max effectiveness of a brew.
I feel wary is all about the change. I do want to get as much effectiveness from my brews as I can.. and I think that should be understandable.. there is defentatly going to need to be a new brew/building strategy.. and as said the scrapyard is a whole different beast as well.
Nope. You're punished for not eating and the new system makes it impossible for rookies to eat (or eat anything at all meaningful as far as not starving goes) at low levels. Something isn't right.
One does not buy anything on this free game.
I donate to the game. For donating to the island, CMJ gives supporter points, which used to be called "donator points" before WCG gave everybody a tiny income. CMJ established a way of redeeming these points, and one of the ways is to spend it on Builder's Brews. The game is free, and the brew is an optional bonus to anyone who supports the developer of the game.
I donate to support the game and such.. i know that what I buy with my points is a extra bonus to that. I'm happy with everything I've bought so far.. there are things I never will buy because I think them more a waste of points (like just getting req tokens, or smaller cig packs.. most cigs in general, and small packs of quills)
I admit I donate more when there is something shiny I want, like the creator bundle I got two of. I'm happy with those purchases.. even if the brew have lost some efficiency.. it was more then worth it for the memory chips alone as that was why I mainly got them....
However I'm likely going to avoid using the brews until some sort of build strategy is made... and even still this makes me reluctant to prepare for a build and stay in my place writing my descriptions there. I have to now work efficiency and watch my hunger in what will likely be the new brew strat. So I'll have to be very organized and prepared.. no more getting all the stam, supplies, brew and sitting in the place for hours writing discriptions, trying to tweak and retweak programs, being able to add in new rooms, pages and doors as I feel I need until I'm out of stam...
I don't mind that I need a new strat, I'm just pointing out where the new limitations are and why I don't necessarily like such a change as much as it pertains to that aspect of the game.
When it comes to building.. it feels ungainly.. waiting for the right items to be in store, gathering the right things, the extra ost cost and gauge watching..
And it really does make the 10 cigs for scrapyard admittance look really steep.
I like the system when it comes to gameplay and jungling it seems fun. It's more realistic and interesting and engaging... but... Basicly I feel torn on my opinion.
Let me start by saying that I am not addressing the issues the new food system creates in building. I am addressing the points of whether or not the new food system is inherently fair and useful, and whether or not we "pay for this game", as Fred put it.
Nope. You're punished for not eating
and the new system makes it impossible for rookies to eat (or eat anything at all meaningful as far as not starving goes) at low levels. Something isn't right.
One does not buy anything on this free game.
I donate to the game. For donating to the island, CMJ gives supporter points, which used to be called "donator points" before WCG gave everybody a tiny income. CMJ established a way of redeeming these points, and one of the ways is to spend it on Builder's Brews. The game is free, and the brew is an optional bonus to anyone who supports the developer of the game.
That's kind of naive.
Of course people donate to redeem the points at the Hunter's Lodge, or at least I'm willing to bet 99% of them do. Selling Supporter Points is pretty much what CMJ's entire business model operates on. Saying making things (things that people have already bought, no less) less effective isn't relevant is pretty much not how anything works, ever.
Sorry.
Let me start by saying that I am not addressing the issues the new food system creates in building. I am addressing the points of whether or not the new food system is inherently fair and useful, and whether or not we "pay for this game", as Fred put it.
Nope. You're punished for not eating
and the new system makes it impossible for rookies to eat (or eat anything at all meaningful as far as not starving goes) at low levels. Something isn't right.
One does not buy anything on this free game.
I donate to the game. For donating to the island, CMJ gives supporter points, which used to be called "donator points" before WCG gave everybody a tiny income. CMJ established a way of redeeming these points, and one of the ways is to spend it on Builder's Brews. The game is free, and the brew is an optional bonus to anyone who supports the developer of the game.
That's kind of naive.
Of course people donate to redeem the points at the Hunter's Lodge, or at least I'm willing to bet 99% of them do. Selling Supporter Points is pretty much what CMJ's entire business model operates on. Saying making things (things that people have already bought, no less) less effective isn't relevant is pretty much not how anything works, ever.
Sorry.
Just to move away from the idea of real-life cost, and back to req costs, let me put this in perspective.
My character has 28 DKs, last time I checked.
I CAN ONLY BUY ONE BIT OF FOOD WHEN MY STAMINA HITS ORANGE.
And forget about upgrading weapons if you want to eat. You starve, or you get stronger!
On an alt character I made recently, I start out with 71.5 stamina after Altruism bonuses. Combined with terrible hunting costs, I can hardly scrape up enough for the cheapest foods.
I don't feel the system should be changed, but the most expensive foods should be at 850 req, tops. It'd be much more viable to be able to eat if the cost was almost halved in them, but you take what you can get.
Annnnd Lydia's right too.
I like your suggestions, L! I know nothing about the programming aspect, but they sound solid!
The one thing that I'm still curious about is "Are there ways to mix things in the bigger pans to get higher stamina?". I'm betting there are, but it's only an educated guess.
hmmm ah there's the thing.. we need to encourage newbies to get their cooking class done and cook their meals to stave off the debuffs likely.. as this system likely leans more for the idea that we should cook our own meals, and make cooking more useful then going and buying the meals.. likely hence the prices..
It doesn't address the building/scrapyard part but we likely really do need to stop thinking in terms of having to buy the foods for jungleing purposes.
Other thoughts/suggestions on how to make the builders/scrapyarders happy..
A pair of special meals, potentially costing a few cigs even one bought from Suzies and is only usable from the build menu, if you have one in your inventory it shows up on the jobs list page only. It is a builders lunchbox and it has comparable stats to the good meals, possibly even a hair better but likely not quite as good as making a good meal made yourself with fresh supplies, but your saving on gathering costs, hence the high cost and it shouldn't be able to be abused the other sold at the gate of the scrapyard and only useable while in the scrapyard and you can chose when to take them, for max efficiency.
Alternatively a meal vender could be added in the scrapyard.. possibly even be cig cost or a exorbitant vender offering decent to good food at twice the price because of location/location/location...
Or, for this scrapyard-value thing, hand-stamps. As in, the robots suddenly start giving them out. To engender friendship from the flesh contestants. And to encourage flesh contestants to visit their restaurant.
Possible stupid question, but why is stam balancing for the Scrapyard such a big deal? The Scrapyard Market doesn't help?
Because you bay 10 cigs for entry, and you leave with whatever you grabbed while there and it's 10 cigs to get in again.
With the new, more eat three balanced meals a day seeming system... You can only get.. I think about 250% stam max ish.. from my tests, during just one hunger gauge fill up (I agree with that the hunger gauge depleting to get full feels odd.. conceptually I understand the wording how your taking out your hunger as you eat but.. it feels odd.)
That plus the food items taking up space in your inventory, you are not likely to be able to find near as many contraptions.. and it is my opinion and perhaps the opinion of others that 10 cigs for what you can get at max now with the new system is steep... and it is frustrating while you are in the scrapyard to know that you can still eat more before newday because you're getting hungry again... but you can't eat in the scrapyard and to leave eat more and get back in it costs a new 10 cigs.
If there was a way to make the 10 cigs a entry cost till newday allowing you to leave and go eat and return it would help.. And take out one of the primary concerns really.. I can live with the ungainly building... it's not that nice but I can still effectively build and get max use of my stamina till newday... I would like some solution for the scrapyarding.
That makes sense, Scrapyard-wise, but what about the Scrapyard Market?
You can get to the market whenever, but the most effective way to get scrapyard points is to use the scrapyard.. the market is good for trading the junk for stuff you need... I... don't know how you mean about the market as this.. likely won't affect it much besides possibly making the prices higher over time? Maybe? I haven't used the market much.
You can get to the market whenever, but the most effective way to get scrapyard points is to use the scrapyard.. the market is good for trading the junk for stuff you need... I... don't know how you mean about the market as this.. likely won't affect it much besides possibly making the prices higher over time? Maybe? I haven't used the market much.
umm... I think I'm saying... that I'm not the best judge on the topic.. as I've only used the market once.. I don't know it.. I know I like programing but I'm still having more then enough for my needs from the boxes.. the market may help...
though thinking on it to think it offers scrap at no cig or stamina cost is wrong.. you need scrap.. scrap costs cigs to get in the first place.. or you can use the market at a 1 cig to 100 scrappoints exchange... and when even scrapier things like race checks go for 1600+ points it is more cost effective to go scrapyard hunting... I've always thought of the market as a way to dump the things you don't need to use to help you get what you do need.
it's useful.. really useful.. but.. I don't see how it would alleviate the stam/food aspects of the scrapyard.. difficulty as you say. Not effectively anyway.
Ahhhh. Gotcha, and another good point!
I take it all back! I just had four Unrepentants on the trot and now have over 500% stam. It cost 10,000 req.
This is more difficult, but doable. Even as a builder/RPer with little interest in game playing, I'm happy on all fronts.
I take it all back! I just had four Unrepentants on the trot and now have over 500% stam. It cost 10,000 req.
This is more difficult, but doable. Even as a builder/RPer with little interest in game playing, I'm happy on all fronts.
I crossed my fingers and hoped for the best. It was only a small risk I figured. I didn't eat at all the day before, and went to bed hungryish the day before that, so I had plenty of room.
I still had some room after three, and so went for it. Whether it really was worth the risk, or whether I was just really, really lucky remains to be seen. But 3 Unrepentants is certainly doable with room left over. After some work done, I now have room for energy drinks or rat packs as well. But even without that, the scrap yard is alright as long as you plan for it well.
Note: This doesn't necessarily mean that a Hunter's Lodge item to make you more effective in your scrap hunting is a bad idea.
Oh the unrepentant can do all that.. Alright then this new system seems great.. just remember to point newbies to grab themselves a frying pan and learn cooking.. I think it's the only way they can survive... and I don't think that is a bad thing.
\o/
Still could definitely stand to have decreased costs. I usually do, but very few players I imagine just HAVE 10k req sitting around in their bank at any given moment. So, what, then, do only veteran players get to build efficiently now?
I would have posted but Lydia and Colin were pretty much saying all I would have, anyway. New system is okay. Just needs costs decreased to be less batshit insane.
Also, I'd tweak the Herbs thing- instead of randomly needing to supply your own herbs (which is stupid) why not have there be a chance of a discount if you have them, but you're paying full price if you don't? Flavor it as "well, we're running low on X, so if you happen to have your own..."
If a restaurant in real life told you that they ran out of salt, but if you went out to mine some they'd let you buy the dish for full price, you'd probably put your fist in their face.
I would.
I crossed my fingers and hoped for the best. It was only a small risk I figured. I didn't eat at all the day before, and went to bed hungryish the day before that, so I had plenty of room.
I still had some room after three, and so went for it. Whether it really was worth the risk, or whether I was just really, really lucky remains to be seen. But 3 Unrepentants is certainly doable with room left over. After some work done, I now have room for energy drinks or rat packs as well. But even without that, the scrap yard is alright as long as you plan for it well.
Note: This doesn't necessarily mean that a Hunter's Lodge item to make you more effective in your scrap hunting is a bad idea.
Still could definitely stand to have decreased costs. I usually do, but very few players I imagine just HAVE 10k req sitting around in their bank at any given moment. So, what, then, do only veteran players get to build efficiently now?
I would have posted but Lydia and Colin were pretty much saying all I would have, anyway. New system is okay. Just needs costs decreased to be less batshit insane.
Also, I'd tweak the Herbs thing- instead of randomly needing to supply your own herbs (which is stupid) why not have there be a chance of a discount if you have them, but you're paying full price if you don't? Flavor it as "well, we're running low on X, so if you happen to have your own..."
If a restaurant in real life told you that they ran out of salt, but if you went out to mine some they'd let you buy the dish for full price, you'd probably put your fist in their face.
I would.
Guys, guys, calm down. I know that what I was saying before was inflammatory and accusatory.
I was just saying that stuff TO INSULT YOU ALL.
FUCK YOU
AND YOU
AND YOU
I honestly didn't mean to single out Lydia, but she was the first one to reply to my bait, so I ended up only quoting her. It's not personal, I'm targeting everyone in general. Whenever CMJ makes a change to an existing mechanic instead of simply adding a shiny new toy, everyone quickly complains that it's unreasonably difficult for new players and that it's ridiculously difficult to maintain the status quo.
I'm taking careful pains to avoid the words "I'm sorry" in this post, because I want it to be clear that I'm absolutely sick of the kneejerk reaction of playerbases in general. (And I'm trying to be an intentional jerk for once instead of an unintentional one.) Established players often cannot fathom the idea that they suddenly can't perform to the level they could before. "I used to be able to afford to eat the best everything and fill up every day!" Well, now you can't. Done. Period. You can only maintain restoring X amount of stamina before running out of money? Well, that's the new standard.
You might find that in a system of randomized availability, options you didn't know you had before might actually turn out to be better than X stamina, considering the new system has only been live for less than a week.
I'm not saying the playerbase can't complain. Hell, I would complain on these forums all the fucking time. All the fucking time. I'm probably balance critic number... 2? 1? Maybe 3. But I cry about things after a lot of time has passed, after people have really gotten a feel for what the change entailed. If you dig up the past somehow and find that I'm a hypocritical dirty liar, fine. The issue is that people are doing it now and it's not justified. We need to try to adapt to it first. At the risk of sounding like a business major,
"WHO MOVED MY CHEESE?!"
You guys yourselves are finding your opinions changing as time and the thread go on. They're generally lessening in their radicalism. That's because your feelings are being pushed aside by your findings.
Keep waiting. Experience more. Don't make a conclusion from the cover. Wait a few weeks. I just want us all to really try the system with the concept in mind that "we're no longer able to do everything." I'd like some more high level goals to achieve in this game, and I think some of you would like it too even if you don't think so yet.
Oh, hold on, I started sounding like slightly less of a dick.
You guys all need to shut your stupid uninformed traps.
Okay, I'm really sorry, a lot of you guys expressed very reasoned, researched statements. Some of you guys are turning around to it, some of you like it, and some of you think the cost is somewhat unreasonable but it's overall good. I was painting everyone under the same label even though it's really abundantly clear that this community is much better than that. Your estimates on how it impacts building is valid, I just don't think that's a problem yet. I'm especially sorry to Lydia, because I overblew her statement concerning builder's brews. I've always despised that reward because it's such a tangible boost to the game (as opposed to cosmetic reward) even though it's a "pay" item rather than an in-game item. Overall you guys have been fair if I bit too fast. At this point, though, I don't care about how you guys perceive me because, let's be honest, I'm always on the other side of the forum arguments, my opinion is small enough that you can shrug off any offense I have given, and we're all here on this forum because we want this game to succeed. I am awful at staying mean. Fuck you guys. =)
Guys, guys, calm down. I know that what I was saying before was inflammatory and accusatory.
I was just saying that stuff TO INSULT YOU ALL.
I was trying to wait.. but I decided to join in with concern when the subject was broached... likely cause I am stressed cause of this move. A good debate is good for the nerves.
I love you guys. Fuck the bloody lot of you. 
I designed this new system so that it'd take slightly longer than your usual five sodding minutes to divine the optimum strategy. Here's how this thing usually plays out:
1. I think of a wrinkle to put in a game feature so that it changes the optimum strategy. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT. No, fuck off, don't tell me what you really want, you don't have a clue, you're a human just like me and, just like me, you're shit at predicting what'll make you happy. What you want, and what'll make you happy, are hardly ever the same thing. You think you want to sit around pressing the same button day in and day out, but you only think that's fun because it's the culmination of you spending the time to figure out the absolute maximum return per button press - you know, the part that's actually fun. Like a smoker getting his fix, you fixate on the cigarette rather than the delicious, delicious nicotine, to the point where you start to believe that the cigarette actually tastes good. My job is to make you happy by giving you hard choices to make, so that you can feel clever when your choices finally turn out right - and the longer it takes you, the cleverer you feel. Do you think, after building a massive new house, you'd feel the same sense of accomplishment if I made it so that all building was free and instantaneous? No, would you bollocks, that'd be crap. So, I sit down and go "Right, my job is to make this lot happy, so I'm gonna give them some more challenge."
2. I spend weeks coding the bastard thing up.
3. Coding done, I upload the new version and giggle like a mad little tinpot dictator, rubbing my hands together and going "Yes, yessss, let's see them figure this one out."
4. Uproar and spittle ensues. At least one whiner will talk about leaving the game, loudly and publicly, for I have Changed It And Ruined It Forever. Maybe they're a popular player, and get support from all their cliquey mates. End result, the whiner erases their character, the cliquey mates go "Oh shit, didn't think she'd actually do that," the whiner slinks back in under a new name 48 hours later.
5. Doesn't matter, because in those 48 hours, someone's figured out that if you combine a Noodly Whatever with a WhoGivesAFuck Cake, you'll get twice as much Thingy as you did even under the old, broken-ass system, a factor I had failed to consider.
6. I reflect upon the sad fact that, in much the way that it takes two minutes to read something that took someone an hour to write, a puzzle that takes one man two weeks to build will be solved in about three hours if you throw six thousand extraordinarily clever people at it. You bastards.
This time, I wanted to break that cycle. My options were as follows:
1. Design games for idiots on Facebook instead;
2. Find some way to lower your collective IQ, possibly through random exposure to excerpts from 50 Shades of Grey;
3. Design things in such a way that the mathematically-optimum strategy was constantly changing, and throw in a bunch more variables, until the system got so complex that it'd take fucking spreadsheets to figure out the best way to game it.
So, yeah. As food goes in and out of availability, and as Herb count fluctuates, the mathematically-optimum strategy will change from day to day. Your new goal is to watch the patterns and choose what to do, not to go to Pleasantville and order a bunch of Noodly Noodles and a Mutant Steak. You did that in the last version because when I made the last version I didn't bother to balance a damn thing. I just threw a bunch of numbers into arrays and went "Yeah, that looks about right," and it turns out that it was anything but right, and then I left it untouched for years because I wanted to tell silly stories about socially-awkward Robots instead.
The resulting food system was a task, not a game. You hear the optimum strategy from a higher-level player, and you perform that strategy, over and over again, until you wonder why it's even a thing, why I don't just dock you X Req and give you Y Stamina each day automatically, it'd save you the clicks.
On the subject of new players - I know for a damn fact that they don't play the game the same way as veterans do, because I watch them. They use targeted fighting. They gamble intelligently. They optimize the living shit out of every single facet of the game. The auto-fight buttons gather dust. The Rookies will be just fine. If you're able to get everything done in a game day that you want to, if you don't have to balance the benefits, if you've figured out the absolute best way to go about a Game Day and it's the same method today is it was yesterday... then as a game designer, I've failed.
So, yeah. Give it some time, get your spreadsheets going, and quit being so damned clever, you lot are gonna drive me bonkers.
Also, just to note:
I take it all back! I just had four Unrepentants on the trot and now have over 500% stam. It cost 10,000 req.
You're going to be fat forever.
You know, I had a whole thing typed up, and as I got ready to hit the submit button I realized it's pretty much pointless and can be summed up thus:
I disagree.
Here, have another gif.
Mannnn, the only reason I'm pissed at the sudden complication in my life that is herbfinding/carcasscleaning/figuring out the restaurants is because I'm a LAAAZY gameplayer who wants to get my clicking out of the way so I can go throw Improbabombs into NewHome's Story feed.
I JUST
WANNA
ROLEPLAY
I DON'T
WANNA
THINK
You-there-boy, fetch me my fainting couch that I may whimper.
....actually once I got my rampant whining out of the way (And thanks, by the way, gchatters, for putting up with it) I found that I rather liked the new food system. Oh, it is irritating as hell, I have no idea how a newish character (I'm at 6 right now I think) is supposed to afford it. Y'say the rooks are smarter now? That's cool, you're getting a lot of nonlazy gameplayers maybe. You might not get as many great writers, because they'll get frustrated at the Constant Failure That Is Their First Like Seven DKs Unless Someone Sends Them A One-Shot. Or maybe you'll still get all the awesome people to stay, because they're so awesome they got patience streaking out their eyeballs instead of bitter, bitter tears.
IN ANY CASE I LIKE IT but probably that's because I immediately took the Psychotic RPer view and said, sweet! I get to say my character is finding herbs and combining them to make sleeping potions now! And she's fat, I get to figure out how she'd react to being fat! I bet dried SneezeWhatever is great for pranks! Steelseeds, when planted, grow WHAT EXACTLY?!
PUT MY VOTE IN THE "MAKE FOOD CHEAPER IN NEWHOME" CATEGORY. Honestly, I don't care about the game being an uphill climb for the rest of the species and once I got used to it, I stopped whining even about the cost of living. So I have to think now. Eh, fine. It still beats sittin' around the house waitin' for someone to call me up and tell me my resume rocks and I can stop bothering the government for survival tithes now.
But Skidge, to RolePlay, you don't need to eat. You just need to be able to travel to where you want to go. End of. Make your character rank 1 difficulty and you're away. No problem. Or...am I missing something here?
I think the real debate is over my avatar right meow. Is it merely better than before, or the best of all time?
Also, does the randomized effect of Acehigh food stay consistent within a gameday but be random each day, or is it random each time you eat it period?
hey I'm less worried about min maxing.. I don't want to do my place in one ay.. okay that's impossible really.. my biggest concern was the fact that the way the system works with you eating, getting hungry and eating again then working and getting hungry again.. seemed like a royal pain in the arse while building..
I always run into the next newday while building... time wise just trying to figure out how to o what I want to do.. most of that's the puzzle of building that I enjoy (though honestly I do not enjoy my constant writers blocks on figuring out how to write what I want to say... but we can't fix that)... but I normally have over half stam by the time newday arrives.. losing the same max stam isn't so bad as knowing I could have done more if I could have solved this problem sooner and knew exactly how many pages I'd need sooner...
It's the knowing that you're losing an opportunity for some reason or another with the scrapyarding and building I was worried about.. I can wait will I have the money, the plans and everything for the unrepentants, even if it makes my character fat.. I rp mainly.. the building is a side line.. that I wish I got more work done on constantly..
I do understand why others may not be happy with this...
I have got to get up to ace when I'm feeling more jungling.. random stam sounds really cool.
Also, does the randomized effect of Acehigh food stay consistent within a gameday but be random each day, or is it random each time you eat it period?
I think the real debate is over my avatar right meow. Is it merely better than before, or the best of all time?
But Skidge, to RolePlay, you don't need to eat. You just need to be able to travel to where you want to go. End of. Make your character rank 1 difficulty and you're away. No problem. Or...am I missing something here?
But Skidge, to RolePlay, you don't need to eat. You just need to be able to travel to where you want to go. End of. Make your character rank 1 difficulty and you're away. No problem. Or...am I missing something here?
But Skidge, to RolePlay, you don't need to eat. You just need to be able to travel to where you want to go. End of. Make your character rank 1 difficulty and you're away. No problem. Or...am I missing something here?
Ohhh Jesus. I don't think I've laughed so hard at eating food, well, ever. The CC404 restaurant is wonderful, and I really enjoy the new food system, for many reasons. Thanks Oh Mighty Island Lord!
Ohhh Jesus. I don't think I've laughed so hard at eating food, well, ever. The CC404 restaurant is wonderful, and I really enjoy the new food system, for many reasons. Thanks Oh Mighty Island Lord!
Of course it would be at 1:30 in the morning that I'd decide "Hey! I haven't done anything on the Island in a while! Let's go look at the new food system!" and promptly get confused by the fact that I now have a pan, am now picking up all sorts of greenery on the map, and now have to figure out what something called a "Daily Energy Requirements Score" is before I eat stuff. What is all this? Haven't a clue. To the Enquirer!
Where I stumbled across this post of CMJ's:
I love you guys. Fuck the bloody lot of you.
I designed this new system so that it'd take slightly longer than your usual five sodding minutes to divine the optimum strategy...
I really have no idea what the Daily Energy Requirements Score is. And Omega, stop putting words in my mouth like this. That wasn't what I said!
I'd suggest cranking down the spawn rate of SneezeRoot, or perhaps putting in a maximum size that a clump of herbs can grow to. Up around AH there's often over 20 and sometimes 30 per square - a double whammy of Lots Of Jungle (didja know that 31% of the map is jungle? Well, you do now) and of Stay Out Of The Woods, Thar Be Monsters Thar.
TwitchLeaf could probably be decreased somewhat as well. Over 10 is not uncommon, even on the busy paths between outposts. SteelSeed and ScroteWeed, by contrast, rarely reach 6 and are more usually 0, 1 or 2.
Meanwhile, the spreadsheet is getting rather full of interesting data! We're onto you, CMJ, you Sneaky Bastard... somewhat, anyway
I'm somewhat near 2000 Sneezeroot and 500ish Twitchleaf, but only a hundred or so Steelseed and Scroteweed is my limiting factor.
Buddleia, if every recipe in restaurants require all 4 types of herbs simultaneously in equal amounts, the herb design is self-balancing due to weight. With 27 kilos of Sneezeroot, I'm not picking up anymore, and I'm probably going to drop my rate. Similarly with the Twitchleaf. Steelseed I need to make some trips every once in a while, and I'm still always scrounging for ScroteWeed, because EVERYONE is going to be scrounging for ScroteWeed (because EVERYONE is going to be scrounging for ScroteWeed (because EVERYONE...)). The need for Weed is going to make it harder to get, with so few growing spots in comparison to the others.
But if we see in the future if the rates are still true. Perhaps in the context of flavoring your carcass meat, having lots of Sneezeroot will be too effective. Or maybe the gain from a single type of herb is just not that damningly good.
Fred, why on earth do you have that much? I got to sixty of each, and stuck round there. That's been plenty for me so far. The restaurants don't ask for herbs that often. OK, cooking your jungle kill is more profitable now as I understand it, but still, you're going to have to be going some to use 2000 Sneezeroot.
There are 47 squares on which Steelseed can grow. 34 for Scroteweed, about 315 for Sneezeroot and about 148 for Twitchleaf. From what I heard in NewHome chat, they spawn at a rate of 2-10 per minute.
That means the chance for any individual mapsquare to spawn its herb ranges from 0.367-1.838% per minute! Now you do the rest and figure out individual Herb chances.
(By the way, stop collecting herbs when you have more than you need. Later, on, CMJ says he'll make them go stale in two gamedays. So if you collect them without needing them, you're wasting them for everybody.)
(By the way, stop collecting herbs when you have more than you need. Later, on, CMJ says he'll make them go stale in two gamedays. So if you collect them without needing them, you're wasting them for everybody.)
There's no way I'm wasting everyone's herbs. These came from the exact place Budd was mentioning, the northwest expanse beyond AceHigh, and it was before her post. Several squares gave me 65+ SneezeRoot. Because of this, it sounds like a lot, but the reality seems that the game is just going to generate a metric buttload of herbs.
Beyond that, it's again what I said: I won't take any more than this because of weight limits. I'll probably stop picking anything but Scrote for my Unrepentants.
Oh, you're not wasting anything now since they don't go stale! That's just a note for later.
Also, it seems that you can, if you're lucky, get 625% stamina in a day.
How do you determine if someone becomes nauseous or not?
It was a new day, the hunger bar was between 1/3 to 1/2 full, and the first meal I ordered was a Sneeze Supreme. After eating I became nauseous, and it was the first meal of the day.
How do you determine if someone becomes nauseous or not?
It was a new day, the hunger bar was between 1/3 to 1/2 full, and the first meal I ordered was a Sneeze Supreme. After eating I became nauseous, and it was the first meal of the day.
You have to look at the mass of the food you are eating. Unfortunately the hunger bar is not telling you everything (you can eat and still have it at max yellow), but if it's down to 1/3 or 1/2, that's really low - look at how much mass the Sneeze Supreme is.
I remember reading somehwere that once you have the nausea bar the chance of puking increases the more it gets filled, or so.
Therefore the explanation you are seeking might be that you got unlucky by filling up into the nausea bar and also puke at the same time?
I hope someone can clarify this
Good luck next time!
Yes, that's what it does, so one of us must be misunderstanding the other or something. To recap on my end: the Sneeze Supreme is a really filling food, so if you eat it when your hunger is low, like 1/3, it will make you nauseous.
I really that a person is less likely to puke when the bar changes from hunger to nausea.
Yeah, you see; if the bar worked in the same way as having red stamina and falling unconscious does, then when your nausea bar is 10% full, there is a 10% chance of puking. And of course, the chance is higher the fuller your bar is, so you can probably get over half the bar full without throwing up at all easily.
After taking a look around the new system:
I really really hate this. Too much goddamn effort.
I agree that it's too complicated, but then, a big part of the reason why I play joker in the first place is because I thought the old system was complicated (worrying about fat and nutrition? remembering to eat? I am not good at these things in real life, hell if I want to bother in a game), so if you want to opinion invalid on me I suppose that is fair.
If I could change one little thing about it, though, I would ask that fat went away faster than it does now. You can get to busload-of-orphans fat in a single day on ration packs, and it takes a loooong time to come down from that. I've seen a lot of people complaining about this in banter, too, so I don't think I just think this because I'm so used to joker I forgot how fat works- I think something about it has actually changed to make it more difficult.
Actually, I'm getting more and more interested by the new cooking system.
If you want just a straight forward routine, then I'd advise starting off by accepting that you're going to be fat as a bus load of orphans - always. It's probably not a maximal strategy, but it works reasonably well. Then maybe start playing about with foods with lower stam but lower fat and higher nutrition and take it from there.
accepting that you're going to be fat as a bus load of orphans - always.
Actually, I'm getting more and more interested by the new cooking system.
If you want just a straight forward routine, then I'd advise starting off by accepting that you're going to be fat as a bus load of orphans - always. It's probably not a maximal strategy, but it works reasonably well. Then maybe start playing about with foods with lower stam but lower fat and higher nutrition and take it from there.
Agreed with Budd. Herbs are not fun, or interesting, at all. It's just work. I get enough work at my actual job in real life. If a food in an outpost requires X herbs, I don't go "oh hey I should go out and get those herbs!" I say "wow, fuck that, I'll just check another restaurant".
Now all the veterans just kill Titans, go to Ace High and eat d20s forever while the newer players are stuck eating ratpacks and being forever fat. Well, the veterans are forever fat, too.
Everyone is forever fat. Forever.
Everyone is forever fat. Forever.
On the subject of new players - I know for a damn fact that they don't play the game the same way as veterans do, because I watch them. They use targeted fighting. They gamble intelligently. They optimize the living shit out of every single facet of the game. The auto-fight buttons gather dust. The Rookies will be just fine. If you're able to get everything done in a game day that you want to, if you don't have to balance the benefits, if you've figured out the absolute best way to go about a Game Day and it's the same method today is it was yesterday... then as a game designer, I've failed.
So, yeah. Give it some time, get your spreadsheets going, and quit being so damned clever, you lot are gonna drive me bonkers.
Everyone is forever fat. Forever.
On the subject of new players - I know for a damn fact that they don't play the game the same way as veterans do, because I watch them. They use targeted fighting. They gamble intelligently. They optimize the living shit out of every single facet of the game. The auto-fight buttons gather dust. The Rookies will be just fine. If you're able to get everything done in a game day that you want to, if you don't have to balance the benefits, if you've figured out the absolute best way to go about a Game Day and it's the same method today is it was yesterday... then as a game designer, I've failed.
So, yeah. Give it some time, get your spreadsheets going, and quit being so damned clever, you lot are gonna drive me bonkers.
As someone who wanders away from the island for months at a time and comes back to explore all the new stuff I have kind of a newbie/veteran combined perspective on this. My experience with the new food system was as follows:
"Hey cool there's new food stuff."
"EAT ALL THE NEW FOOD STUFF."
"Oh jesus god why am I so fat?! Ration packs, right? I remember ration packs are nutrition with no mass. They're like supplements. I'll just eat ration packs and solve all my problems."
"FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU--- WHY AM I MORE FAT?! Oh geez and now I'm dying of malnutrition. and fat."
"Okay. Okay. Restaurants have nutrition meters. Clearly everything must have nutrition meters. I need nutrition but not mass. Vegetables. I'll eat vegetables all day. Just cook up pans full of plants."
"Okay this is doing nothing. I'm still fat and still dying of malnutrition. WHAT IS THE POINT OF THESE VEGETABLES. That's it. I'm starving myself thin."
"Okay now I'm losing 30% stamina every day and I barely have enough stamina to actually cook the food, much less collect it. What is WITH this hunger meter thing?"
"OH GOD I CAN VOMIT NOW?! WHAT THE FFF--"
"Ration packs you must be worth something?! YOU MUST. WHY ELSE WOULD YOU EXIST. Maybe if I just eat one per day?"
"This is not digging me out of this starvation hole. Maybe I need square meals? Three per day?"
"...aaaaand I'm fat. Lovely. God I'm so sorry Shadowkin. You are having a terrible week."
"Okay. Eat all of the tasty meat that exists forever. It must be healthy. plus one ration pack until things even out. What in the HECK are these vegetables for?!"
"Make some stir fry? Okay these vegetables. Seriously. What are you."
"Screw it. I'm just going to hoard them. They must do something. Maybe I get a bonus or something for eating them. They're seriously doing nothing."
"Okay hoarding vegetables is helping me find supply crates. That is their new purpose. Supply crate magnets. Everything is wonderful forever."
OMG I totally forgot about this game! Shadowkin, thank you for posting to this thread and reminding me you guys were out here.
OMG I totally forgot about this game! Shadowkin, thank you for posting to this thread and reminding me you guys were out here.
Loving rant.
/me hugs Shadowkin's leg.
/me welcomes JennyJellyBean back and...appreciates the leg hug? I guess?
My puzzle fighting expertise so far consists of realizing that it is better for my health bar if I counter incoming red attacks then to completely ignore them, and realizing that once all the enemy's bits are broken I get to pound them with impunity.
Back to the topic of food though I've discovered (Or at least I think I've discovered?) That some herbs apparently counter each other. Which is just. like. What.
I don't even?
Wait. Counter each other?
Seems like? I mean I don't have databases or anything, but I'm pretty sure last time I was cookin up some steak 8 steak and one root gave me something like 3.5% and 8 steak plus one root plus one weed gave me significantly less, like 2.8%
could just be that I'm crazy though? Don't ever count out that possibility!
Is it just me, or did anyone else notice that Joe's Diner no longer sells coffee?
...the coffee Jill buys you when you're a newbie.
...the coffee you buy [redacted] when you [redacted].
Everyone's Story jokes about Joe's terrible, gritty coffee don't make sense anymore!
Is it just me, or did anyone else notice that Joe's Diner no longer sells coffee?
...the coffee Jill buys you when you're a newbie.
...the coffee you buy [redacted] when you [redacted].
Everyone's Story jokes about Joe's terrible, gritty coffee don't make sense anymore!
As a new player, I don't understand all this frustration. Okay, so my hunger bar is yellow all the time, that would be something that should be looked into, but it's not like it's DIFFICULT to manage your character. I start each day ~125% - ~132% stamina, how much more do you want? Eat responsibly and accept that you sometimes have to wait for a new game-day before you can do more
Personally, I've found that the ~100% Stam I get each NewDay is more than enough to entertain me, so I pretty much just ignore the food system entirely.
Full Metal Lion doesn't eat anymore. Nor does he drink, breathe, shave, bathe, defecate, or urinate. He's happens to be a cannon, which may have something to do with it.
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