Subject: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 05:03 AM
By: Cherriki+Ten

Content:

Okay, so, I think I may have made my opinions pretty clear on the subject, but at the behest of CMJ and others, I am starting up a new topic for feedback on the new Global Banter.

For anyone who would like to keep up on what's gone on so far, it is the tail end of Banter in Common Grounds.

So: Long story short from what I have seen so far. Some people like it, most people dislike it, and some people are willing to give it it's week.

I don't like it personally, but I've posted until I'm blue in the fingertips and I don't really have anything to add.


So uh, have at 'er. Cool



Replies:

Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 05:17 AM
By: Genevieve

Content:

It was mentioned in the other thread that Places should have options. I agree. I think Global Banter should be optional, and Private Banter still be an option in Places.

In outposts... Yes, alright, I am sick to death of sloppy, festering piles of cuddles and variations on that theme. It's gross to see all the time, even in the tranquil quiet of Squathole.

But I won't let that take away from a few clear benefits:

Mass sudden invitations. If something amusing is happening, a quick hop to Banter allows a good portion of the Island to be invited suddenly. Someone's having a swordfight with trouts on sticks? Where? CC404? Brilliant, on my way.

Nothing delights me more than when two PRATs are in an outpost and suddenly three more show up. We never plan that, it always happens randomly, but imagine if everyone could pull that off all the time. "Hi entire island not in Dwellings, want to come play hopskotch in Ace High? Because that's happening. BYOB."

that is pretty cool, that chance right there.

Now. I think another fun experiment would be erasing all banters except in Dwellings. But that's partially because I am a jerk. No.. I am mostly a jerk. I think scrapping Banter in outposts would probably make even more people angry, but would... hopefully... remind a few players that Improbable Island is a Role Playing Game and not a social networking site.

A lot of people talk OOC here, I know, but I am sometimes very deeply disturbed by how dramatic Out Of Character conversations can get! This is a game! I think deeply felt personal dramas aren't something someone should feel from a game.

This is just me, though. Big Grin What I've seen from Global Banter so far today is a LOT of complaining and very short fuses and a few people who didn't pay much heed to the change and a lot of confusion.

I think that no true judgements can be made until it has been around longer, though.

Just expect a lot of excited invitations to absolute nonsense until this goes away again Big Grin!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 06:14 AM
By: Harris

Content:

Exactly what Gen said.

It's a chat function. Relax.
And no, dammit, I don't mean "HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN?" I mean "Why? Why are you angry/dismissive/annoyed?" Voice your opinion, be calm, and try it. If it kills you, you never have to try it again.

Plus, this will or won't work, and it's already been dubbed an experiment, as well as . easy to change back.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 06:23 AM
By: Escemfer

Content:

Quote by: Harris

Plus, this will or won't work, and it's already been dubbed an experiment, as well as . easy to change back.



For an experiment, thus far I think it's pretty neat. Big Grin People are saying it's going far too fast for them, but from my experience with it earlier, it didn't seem to be going much faster than NewHome Banter during the busy part of the evening (which is fast, granted, but a lot of the complaints were from people who do chat in NewHome during the busy hours).

It'll be awesome when Places get private Banter back, but since CMJ's promised that's in the works, I think the current trial run is fine and have no problems with it. Either it'll work, which won't enrage me, or it won't work, which also won't enrage me. Wink I'm easily pleased.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 06:27 AM
By: Full+Metal+Lion

Content:

My only regret with this system so far is that, in the future, I don't see myself being able to quietly reminisce to some rookie about Back when Banters were Separate. Unless I'm in a Place, of course, I don't see much slow, quiet bantering being possible. But that's really just a first impression.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 07:20 AM
By: Melinda

Content:

No problem with banter itself (I kind of like it, actually), but the island is running very slowly for me.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 11:47 AM
By: Twosocks+Monkey

Content:

I only have one sadness about it.

In the past, you'd do a scene somewhere remote, like New Pitts or Squathole or good old Ace High.

It would stay there, lonesome, for some time, and the best, the best, was if you happened to wander back, sometimes you'd see little banter posts from people commenting on your scene.

There was something wonderful about Harris leaving a little applause behind, or someone else grinning.

Otherwise, I love me some change.

moo

-Rose


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 02:23 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: Twosocks+Monkey

I only have one sadness about it.

In the past, you'd do a scene somewhere remote, like New Pitts or Squathole or good old Ace High.

It would stay there, lonesome, for some time, and the best, the best, was if you happened to wander back, sometimes you'd see little banter posts from people commenting on your scene.

There was something wonderful about Harris leaving a little applause behind, or someone else grinning.

Otherwise, I love me some change.

moo

-Rose



This. I'm still getting used to it, but so far, exactly this. Thank you for articulating me here Twosocks.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 03:09 PM
By: Sonny

Content:

Quote by: Genevieve


But I won't let that take away from a few clear benefits:

Mass sudden invitations. If something amusing is happening, a quick hop to Banter allows a good portion of the Island to be invited suddenly. Someone's having a swordfight with trouts on sticks? Where? CC404? Brilliant, on my way.

Nothing delights me more than when two PRATs are in an outpost and suddenly three more show up. We never plan that, it always happens randomly, but imagine if everyone could pull that off all the time. "Hi entire island not in Dwellings, want to come play hopskotch in Ace High? Because that's happening. BYOB."

that is pretty cool, that chance right there.


Sorry, but that's what you could have done all along in the old Global.


I gave it a try yesterday and it perhaps was even worse than I expected, I soon hid the chat. Posts stayed maybe 1 min 30sec max on the page and the constant shifting and updating made me dizzy when I tried to follow the bantering. How anyone would communicate about rp scenes there, or even normal banter is a mystery to me.


I understand the idea behind it, and it is essentially a good one, but I think the biggest problem is the amount of people playing and also bantering. It's now one big chatroom for too many different groups of people and topics with currently no ingame options except distraction to find a quieter corner. You get a convoluted mess with a post rate nearing warp.

I doubt chats in places will change much about it when they return. The option of messy global or lonely places chat doesn't help those jungling or rping in cities.
There's simply no easy way to talk about or discuss something game related or otherwise like it was in the small, often quiet environment of the old city banters and global.
And, no. Gtalk, distractions, etc are no good substitutes, as Jenkins mentioned in the other thread. They work for certain circumstances and few players, or private talk, but otherwise an ingame solution is in my opinion preferable.


This community consists of many, often very different, people. While forcing them all together might tamper some of the extreme bouts of ooc drama and huggles and stuff some others don't like overly much, it irritates, annoys, scares or misguides other groups at the same time.


And just think about the rookies! All those poor, confused rookies!


PS: Speaking of all the banters, may we, please, have a seperate banter in the Clan Halls?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 03:55 PM
By: Collin-Vee

Content:

Okay. I'm going to say this now.

I don't like the new banter. Quite frankly, I respect the experiment, and the intentions, don't get me wrong.

But I can't keep up unless Banter is the only thing I use.

You can't talk to people who aren't like Me and Omega and can Banter with a few posts on the same page.

You can't even use banter for it's intended purpose! It's forcing people off the website and onto Gtalk, which not everyone has.

Instead of, say, making Global Banter more obvious. Which if most of my asking around is correct, a lot of people DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT.

CMJ's goals aside, this new system is CHAOS. Nobody can coordinate scenes. Nobody can flesh out an idea together. When a newbie shows up in NewHome, they get buried under forty people saying different things. I can't even give a good greeting and have any more than two people see it before it's gone. I've literally had people greet me on my fourth post in Banter.

And all that aside, the worst part is, I can see this staying. Enough of the more experienced people who were around before banter say 'if you don't like it, don't use it!', then comment how much they like it. But Banter can't even be used like this, private Places or not. You're pushing people AWAY from outposts so they can have a quiet little chat about a scene if this continues.

I'm not asking to scrap the idea, but it needs more than a bit of shuffling around, private banters elsewhere, then slapping a 'DONE' sticker on it.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 04:15 PM
By: Genevieve

Content:

Sonny: Yes, I know the old global could've done that, except I couldn't expect everyone I know to be on global. There were very, very few people using global to begin with, that's what makes this unique.

This ties in with what Collin said. If people were more aware of Global, it may get used more.

Maybe, after this experiment is over, if the link to Global Banter was put somewhere near regular Banter, people would remember wat Global is, and use it more!

But before this, sadly, Sonny, if I popped into Global I would wait a good five minutes for a reply, from people who didn't really want to RP at the time.

Before this, Global Banter was a missed opportunity by a lot of people.

And another thing Collin said is yeaaaah the rookies. The game prompts you to introduce yourself in Banter. if Banter is a constantly moving wash of people with bright and colorful names and text, one lone rookie will get lost in the tide, it is true.

Twosocks also has a point, that's a pretty damn nice feeling. Though I've started to distract people who've made me laugh. I'm paranoid about the seven days always running out before compliments are paid. I keep forgetting about that! Even less time in places like NewHome!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 04:52 PM
By: Harris

Content:

I think Buddleia put it the very best:

Quote by: Buddleia

And then, the suggestion of one Global Banter instead of many Local Banters. At first I thought "oh god no, it'll be chaos with sixty people Bantering at once instead of the usual 30 in NH, 20 in KT and 10-or-so from everywhere else all suddenly thrown in to one channel".

And then, I stopped to think about that. Yes, there would be chaos. There would be howls of dismay from people who insist that they need Banter and can't possibly function without it. There would be great confusion from people trying to coordinate one scene mixed up with the people trying to coordinate another scene elsewhere and a third group in another town and the other several score folks chatting away with all their usual OOC stuff. It would be a painful transition, if we make it.

And yet. And yet. The Island did just fine before the introduction of Banter. Scenes still got coordinated; roleplay still happened without Major Misunderstandings which could only possibly have been worked out by a chat channel tied to the location. Nowdays, in the areas without Banter - the world map, the Commons, the pubs, many thousands of Rooms in Places - people still roleplay just fine. Scenes still get coordinated. Rookies still get welcomed and their questions answered. Location Four still gets a lot of use.

A lot of what I see in the Banter channels, particularly in the busy places, in my opinion does not really need to be posted into Improbable Island. Lots of one-word posts, lots of - let's be frank - somewhat inane chat. People are saying "hi" and "lol" and "bye", but also licking, nomming, groping, petting, hugging, bantercouch, and so on. Social noise rather than meaningful messages. Of course, there are also things like "sorry got to go in ten minutes, let's wrap up this scene soon", and "the box my character is offering yours is approximately six inches on a side. If you open it, it contains a confused badger" and "hey, people, event A is taking place at location B at time C! All welcome!" - I expect that everyone would agree that those are a fine use for Banter. But, a lot of what happens in Banter does not look to me as if it really really needs to be taking up Improbable Island server capacity. Some of it does, but not all. (Of course, that's my opinion, and I'm sure many of the people posting social messages like greetings and how their day went and so on would think that yes, it does need to be posted, and who am I to criticise them and try to silence them?)

Maybe, just maybe, if local Banter was removed, then after the initial overloading chaos and gnashing of teeth, then people would reconsider the purpose of a Banter channel, and start only posting in it if they think that their message really needs to be seen by everyone, and using GChat or AIM or MSN or an IRC channel or something for their semi-private socialising? Maybe? And maybe possibly this would free up 400 chat-pages worth of server space, and let the Island run a little faster?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 05:18 PM
By: Maniak

Content:

Quote by: Genevieve


But I won't let that take away from a few clear benefits:

Mass sudden invitations. If something amusing is happening, a quick hop to Banter allows a good portion of the Island to be invited suddenly. Someone's having a swordfight with trouts on sticks? Where? CC404? Brilliant, on my way.

Nothing delights me more than when two PRATs are in an outpost and suddenly three more show up. We never plan that, it always happens randomly, but imagine if everyone could pull that off all the time. "Hi entire island not in Dwellings, want to come play hopskotch in Ace High? Because that's happening. BYOB."

that is pretty cool, that chance right there.



The outpost notice board is much better for mass invitations, not at least because it stays up for a lot longer than the banter that moves at 20 posts a minute. Which is exactly my problem with the new banter. It is distracting, difficult to follow, challenging to read and impossible to hold a decent conversation.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 05:28 PM
By: Harris

Content:

As for the complaints not addressed above:

Non-II chat functions are too inconvenient? Honestly? Distracting people/gchat/e-mail/etc., and/or opening a new tab is too much bother? It's a few mouse clicks, maybe a password typed in. Or, it's a message typed to the people you want to talk to anyway. And what are most of the messaging options anyway, but e-mail derivatives? Clicking your mouse, maybe typing one paragraph, maybe copypasting that paragraph is too much hassle? No. It isn't. This is a stupid point to make, and I really do not think any of you are anything but damn smart.

Who has read the MOtD? This is not only still officially an experiment, CMJ is also rolling out Place-specific Banter, even room specific Banter! For everyone who wants Banter channels that are underpopulated/quiet all of the time, it's about to get better than it was.

Think of the childrenRookies!
Noble, but...I already saw it on day ONE of the experiment, where someone introduced herself as new, and started asking questions, and the chat flew several lines past her questions, with no answers, and then... Everyone acknowledged her, AND all of her questions were answered. We attract literate, clever, patient folk. It's sad, but true.


I firmly maintain that we do NOT need Outpost specific Banter, as it tempted us to take the path of least resistance, and not go from outpost to outpost to talk to people, and this not only created the Banter clusterfuck that was Kittania, but oh.... CC 404, New Pittsburgh, and AceHigh being OVERRUN SO FUCKING OFTEN.

Having Global Banter only in Outposts, and Private/specific Banter only in Places, no matter how you slice it, is a win/win scenario.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 05:40 PM
By: Harris

Content:

Quote by: Maniak

The outpost notice board is much better for mass invitations, not at least because it stays up for a lot longer than the banter that moves at 20 posts a minute. Which is exactly my problem with the new banter. It is distracting, difficult to follow, challenging to read and impossible to hold a decent conversation.



No, it isn't better. If your event happens on short notice, then Banter is where it's at. You can't answer questions in Notice Board, either. What if they have questions?

The fact that Banter has those advantages, and Notices stay up for much longer put them on and even keel, really. Both are good, but one or the other will always better- depending entirely on what you need it to do.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 05:59 PM
By: Trex

Content:

Going to throw my two cents into the mix here:

I love the new Banter and think that it should stay. We will adapt and thrive as we always do.

Besides, I want place wide banters, and this was the first step towards that goal :3


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 06:07 PM
By: Marca

Content:

I don't like the new Banter. It's too fast-paced and newbies asking questions will get lost in it. Also, we already have a sitewide Banter thing called Location Four. I like the idea of a sitewide Banter viewable from the main page of the Outpost, but I don't like that it replaces the individual Outpost's Banter channel. Maybe a setup with three channels (Story, Banter, Sitewide Banter) would work better?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 06:11 PM
By: Harris

Content:

Quote by: Marca

I don't like the new Banter. It's too fast-paced and newbies asking questions will get lost in it. Also, we already have a sitewide Banter thing called Location Four. I like the idea of a sitewide Banter viewable from the main page of the Outpost, but I don't like that it replaces the individual Outpost's Banter channel. Maybe a setup with three channels (Story, Banter, Sitewide Banter) would work better?



Quote by: Harris

I firmly maintain that we do NOT need Outpost specific Banter, as it tempted us to take the path of least resistance, and not go from outpost to outpost to talk to people, and this not only created the Banter clusterfuck that was Kittania, but oh.... CC 404, New Pittsburgh, and AceHigh being OVERRUN SO FUCKING OFTEN.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 06:17 PM
By: quinn

Content:

Honestly, I've read all the opinions here and I agree with some and disagree with others. While this is a much more fast-paced Banter than some, I'm loving it so far. Things will slow down as people get used to the change after all!

A way to keep an eye on who's active while I'm building? Check.
A way to spontaneously invite people to a scene of somesort without needing SP? Check
A way for new members to get greeted Island-wide on the chance (and it HAS happened) that NewHome is empty? Check!

Not mention keeping Banter more central to RP. As much as I like a quick hi and such, the cuddling and the like does get out of hand at times. Lots of times.

I for one plan to keep a Global banter channel open in at least one of my rooms (for building and such times!) and if we're really getting place wide banter? Even better.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 06:19 PM
By: Collin-Vee

Content:

Quote by: quinn

Not mention keeping Banter more central to RP.



How, pray-tell, are we able to do that, when our posts are buried within less than a minute?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 06:37 PM
By: Cherriki+Ten

Content:

Quote by: Harris

As for the complaints not addressed above:

Non-II chat functions are too inconvenient? Honestly? Distracting people/gchat/e-mail/etc., and/or opening a new tab is too much bother? It's a few mouse clicks, maybe a password typed in. Or, it's a message typed to the people you want to talk to anyway. And what are most of the messaging options anyway, but e-mail derivatives? Clicking your mouse, maybe typing one paragraph, maybe copypasting that paragraph is too much hassle? No. It isn't. This is a stupid point to make, and I really do not think any of you are anything but damn smart.




I am the one who has complained the most about that in particular.

I have a serious difficulty in multitasking. It's not me being stupid or anything but I actually can't do any major multitasking. I can't focus on any one thing when I have four to five convos going on on gmail and I am trying to scene. Again, it's not for lack of trying - I am simply incapable of doing it.

I agree with Gen that Global Banter does have it's uses. It's incredibly useful to be able to communicate and organize scenes. But I can see it being abused and that's what bothers me.

I mean this with no offense, but I hate reading about people kissing and cuddling, snuggling and groping, and some of the less than mature puns and jokes. Like hurr-de-hurr, fart jokes. **Titter**

And I don't like admitting it either because alot of people seem to have this idea that I don't want to talk or I want to be treated different. I don't. I like when Arodang comes along and gives me an e-hug. I like when Leporidae Menk sits on my head. I like being silly! Hell I love being silly.

But now I feel like I'll just be drowned out by the norm of... uhm... There's a way to put it.



When it comes down to it now, I feel that it doesn't really matter what I say anymore. If it sticks, it sticks. I'll check occasionally to see what's going on, but more than likely, I'll just hide it.

And at this point, I probably won't talk to alot of people OoC because my silly attitude online has been compromised by how serious/ adamant I have been concerning the subject.


Edit: I want to make it very clear, I am not trying to guilt anyone here. Seriously.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 07:25 PM
By: quinn

Content:

Quote by: Collin-Vee

Quote by: quinn

Not mention keeping Banter more central to RP.



How, pray-tell, are we able to do that, when our posts are buried within less than a minute?

I already mentioned that things will slow as the novelty wears off, but if people keep complaining every thirty seconds, it's not going to help. Same with the ever present cuddling.

I'll give a hug in greeting and all that, but in some cases it just goes on and on and clogs up banter as much as it does Story when that crap happens in Outposts! (Sorry, but there are far too often a slew of one line posts about cuddling and snuggling and licking and nipping, but that's another rant entirely.)

Short story is, if we cut out all the BS, Banter isn't any faster than it is normally when the BS is added in.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 07:29 PM
By: Cherriki+Ten

Content:

Quote by: quinn

Quote by: Collin-Vee

Quote by: quinn

Not mention keeping Banter more central to RP.



How, pray-tell, are we able to do that, when our posts are buried within less than a minute?

I already mentioned that things will slow as the novelty wears off, but if people keep complaining every thirty seconds, it's not going to help. Same with the ever present cuddling.

I'll give a hug in greeting and all that, but in some cases it just goes on and on and clogs up banter as much as it does Story when that crap happens in Outposts! (Sorry, but there are far too often a slew of one line posts about cuddling and snuggling and licking and nipping, but that's another rant entirely.)

Short story is, if we cut out all the BS, Banter isn't any faster than it is normally when the BS is added in.



That's my problem Quinn. It won't stop. It's just that it is always in Kittania and sometimes New Home so people like me, who avoid those two outposts, don't usually notice it/ have to deal with it.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 07:30 PM
By: Agelmar

Content:

AAAAAA

I can't post my ideas and feedback because it's already been said or quoted by Genevieve and Harris.
... No, fuck it. I'll do it anyway because it hasn't been said my way.

Yes, it's long been my opinion that Banter detracts from the Roleplay experience and edges II towards being a social networking site, with how it's being abused used by the populace. I've had conversations with many people about this, many long conversations where lots of good stuff was said.

Now, I recognized then the obvious problem with removing Banter entirely from the site, and besides, it still could be a useful tool despite the (in my eyes) misuse of it in the past. When I was asked what the best alternative was, I suggested that Global Banter be left to appease the most people while solving the most problems. I was then told that this was a popular sentiment among other roleplayers in a like mind to mine, and that made me happy.

Right now, all we need is some time for people to get used to the fact that Banter is a supplement to Story and not an alternative to it. We have lots of posting, yes, but if you weren't aware we'd sometimes had days in NewHome and Kittania Banter where they'd move at nearly a page a minute.
So the negative effects we're seeing and hearing about aren't all that new, and if you ask me the positive potential that the Global Banter offers far outweighs any negatives that I see.

Honestly I don't care if the new changes are so heinous that it forced you to quit using Banter. If you leaned on Banter that much then it's a good thing that you're learning to not use it as a crutch. As Harris said earlier, plenty of players made do without Banter years ago, and in my opinion, Genevieve's explanation was my idea of how Banter would work when it launched. A lot of people got used to Banter being an OOC roleplay channel, and it soon ground downhill into a place for people to avoid contributing to Story. I don't give a shit if you had a terrible day. I'm not on II to hear about your life, I'm here to play a game.

Change happens, people. And in my experience the positive changes aren't immediate. Right now Banter isn't the ideal thing, it's not the 'perfect' vision I have in my mind, but it now has the potential to be like that.

So, thank you CMJ, for getting to this.
Thank you mods and friends who listened to my rants and tooth-gnashing about every petty little problem I have with the site's userbase and picking out the relevant bits in between all my short-tempered rancor.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 07:32 PM
By: quinn

Content:

Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

That's my problem Quinn. It won't stop. It's just that it is always in Kittania and sometimes New Home so people like me, who avoid those two outposts, don't usually notice it/ have to deal with it.



I've already seen some of the more prolific ones cutting back a bit. It's not perfect, but it's not exactly slow right now and I'm seeing posts lasting three minutes. Already an improvement over yesterday!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 07:49 PM
By: Marly

Content:

Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

I mean this with no offense, but I hate reading about people kissing and cuddling, snuggling and groping, and some of the less than mature puns and jokes. Like hurr-de-hurr, fart jokes. **Titter**

And I don't like admitting it either because alot of people seem to have this idea that I don't want to talk or I want to be treated different. I don't. I like when Arodang comes along and gives me an e-hug. I like when Leporidae Menk sits on my head. I like being silly! Hell I love being silly.

But now I feel like I'll just be drowned out by the norm of... uhm... There's a way to put it.



When it comes down to it now, I feel that it doesn't really matter what I say anymore. If it sticks, it sticks. I'll check occasionally to see what's going on, but more than likely, I'll just hide it.

And at this point, I probably won't talk to alot of people OoC because my silly attitude online has been compromised by how serious/ adamant I have been concerning the subject.


Edit: I want to make it very clear, I am not trying to guilt anyone here. Seriously.



First, Cherri, anyone's voice matters and I'm sure it's listened to, so long as they're trying to give feedback and be helpful. Any new project/thing needs its negative feedback as well as the positives. As a Marlybaa, I feel very safe around you and bridges.

Second, Banter will be, I predict, a lot like some of the outposts, but a lot easier to dilute. The people in NewHome and Kittania who squeamish-out the rest of us with their Sickly Sweet Sappy Sticky (S4 for short, also known as the Smile Support Society in some frequently beleaguered towns) will easily be drowned out if we just keep doing what we already do: be awesome in the same space. Think of it. Marly and Cherri with a conversation in lace. Instant Pirates.Those are only two examples of a MILLION I could think of. Not in-character, per se, but as us. Because there are so many awesome people on the island, and we don't need to be in-character to do it. Some call it setting a good example, some call it having fun despite others, I call it having fun and paying no never mind to anything otherwise that don't have anything to do wit me.

Third, multitasking is something we all have problems with to some extent. I have to limit what I'm doing where, sometimes, too. There are times I can't do a scene on the Island because that would mean ignoring all those chat windows. There are times I don't have gchat up because it means the island would time out on me. You're definitely not alone in that. Gchat has its functions and purposes, banter has its own, and they're by no means the same thing. Just drawing the line there, because Colin Vee pointed out that he believes a lot of people are going to gchat because Banter isn't private. Which... is what we've always been doing. Banter was never private. It was just a bit more contained. To say it's not private is like saying that screens aren't walls. We had screens before. Now we don't. Distractions aren't private, Banter isn't private. You want personal chatting, you go outside. If it's not what you want, that's your choice, and sometimes it's just what you have to do. No one should judge that. There are some people who don't communicate except through Distractions. All the same, how you talk to people is your choice.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 08:48 PM
By: Cherriki+Ten

Content:

Quote by: Marly

Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

I mean this with no offense, but I hate reading about people kissing and cuddling, snuggling and groping, and some of the less than mature puns and jokes. Like hurr-de-hurr, fart jokes. **Titter**

And I don't like admitting it either because alot of people seem to have this idea that I don't want to talk or I want to be treated different. I don't. I like when Arodang comes along and gives me an e-hug. I like when Leporidae Menk sits on my head. I like being silly! Hell I love being silly.

But now I feel like I'll just be drowned out by the norm of... uhm... There's a way to put it.



When it comes down to it now, I feel that it doesn't really matter what I say anymore. If it sticks, it sticks. I'll check occasionally to see what's going on, but more than likely, I'll just hide it.

And at this point, I probably won't talk to alot of people OoC because my silly attitude online has been compromised by how serious/ adamant I have been concerning the subject.


Edit: I want to make it very clear, I am not trying to guilt anyone here. Seriously.



First, Cherri, anyone's voice matters and I'm sure it's listened to, so long as they're trying to give feedback and be helpful. Any new project/thing needs its negative feedback as well as the positives. As a Marlybaa, I feel very safe around you and bridges.

Second, Banter will be, I predict, a lot like some of the outposts, but a lot easier to dilute. The people in NewHome and Kittania who squeamish-out the rest of us with their Sickly Sweet Sappy Sticky (S4 for short, also known as the Smile Support Society in some frequently beleaguered towns) will easily be drowned out if we just keep doing what we already do: be awesome in the same space. Think of it. Marly and Cherri with a conversation in lace. Instant Pirates.Those are only two examples of a MILLION I could think of. Not in-character, per se, but as us. Because there are so many awesome people on the island, and we don't need to be in-character to do it. Some call it setting a good example, some call it having fun despite others, I call it having fun and paying no never mind to anything otherwise that don't have anything to do wit me.

Third, multitasking is something we all have problems with to some extent. I have to limit what I'm doing where, sometimes, too. There are times I can't do a scene on the Island because that would mean ignoring all those chat windows. There are times I don't have gchat up because it means the island would time out on me. You're definitely not alone in that. Gchat has its functions and purposes, banter has its own, and they're by no means the same thing. Just drawing the line there, because Colin Vee pointed out that he believes a lot of people are going to gchat because Banter isn't private. Which... is what we've always been doing. Banter was never private. It was just a bit more contained. To say it's not private is like saying that screens aren't walls. We had screens before. Now we don't. Distractions aren't private, Banter isn't private. You want personal chatting, you go outside. If it's not what you want, that's your choice, and sometimes it's just what you have to do. No one should judge that. There are some people who don't communicate except through Distractions. All the same, how you talk to people is your choice.



Touche. /sheepish ( Rolling Eyes )


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 09:11 PM
By: Marly

Content:

Touche. /sheepish


You... you mean I'm not the only baa in the world? O.O At last, I'm a member of a SPECIES!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 09:19 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

Seems like the global stuff has calmed down already, and I hope it's a trend that continues. It's an experiment worth trying and I am wanting to see how it is in a week or so after everyone's gotten a chance to calm down about it.

Initial impressions were pretty poor, I have to say, but hey.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 09:28 PM
By: endarr

Content:

My two cents:

I think it's nice. I think it will work well if the place options are implemented.

Other than that, it's kinda neat.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 09:34 PM
By: Agelmar

Content:

Quote by: Matthew

Seems like the global stuff has calmed down already, and I hope it's a trend that continues. It's an experiment worth trying and I am wanting to see how it is in a week or so after everyone's gotten a chance to calm down about it.

Initial impressions were pretty poor, I have to say, but hey.



Initial impressions of Outpost invasions, Autoupdate, and Banter itself were poor! Change takes time! Constructive feedback is what helps, so Dan can adjust the current features to better help people's needs.

As has been said, though, whining about page speed is a little petty, especially as at peak times, the separated Banters would run a page every two minutes as well.

If it bothers you, post slower! Consider what you're about to say! Less glomping and tacklehugging and cuddles and other inane posts would cut the clutter too. Maybe not roleplaying in Banter and instead in Story would be a bit of help as well!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 10:10 PM
By: Jock

Content:

I have come to pitch in my two cents

This new banter is chaotic. Yesterday at the busy times the oldest post was 57 seconds old.
I came to the Island well after Banter was introduced and it was one of the things that sold me on staying on the island seeing it in it's current state sickens me.
I watched a Rookie's questions go unanswered because her post was gone buried beneathe everyone else's conversation
Don't glomp/huggle/pounce people in Banter you say? No I won't stop that. You know why? because it is fun to have Banter shenagins.
Banter allowed me to talk to people ooc and story at the same time. Now I must chose which one I want to do.
Hide it you say? Why should I now have to hide Banter because I don't want to have a headache from 60+ people posting at the same time.

The old Banter worked much better and I await its hopeful return.

I apologize if I have upset anyone for repeated what someone else said.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 10:38 PM
By: Agelmar

Content:

There are several solutions in front of you! If you can't change the situation, change yourself! If you won't do that, don't complain!

All you can govern is yourself, and if you refuse to do that you can't hold other people to your expectations.

Banter has changed. Feedback is important, yes, but as Harris' first post says, calm down a little. If you're sickened by the current state of things, then you need to step back and cool your toes. So what, Banter was going fast at one point in time? At my time of posting Banter's oldest post is roughly at the same time as NewHome's oldest post. Guess what? Posting times fluctuate. I've had private parties in my own Dwelling run at a minute and a half per page. There were ten people there, not sixty.

There's a lot of things I've seen in my years on the Island that I didn't agree with. But I can't change what people do! I can't fix stupid! I can't dictate the appropriate level of silliness! I would like to, and in fact if there were less silliness my problems and yours too would be solved, but as you refuse to be less silly with your cuddling and glomps, Banter will be flooded with scenes like:
Player A glomps player B!
Player B is glomped!
Player C watches Player A glomp B
Player D walks in and sees glomps! He decides to join in and glomps A and B!
Player C cuddles player A, B and C, brain melted from the inane fuzzy cute shit around him
Player A squarks as she is glomped by Player D. Oh noes!
Player F, sickened by all the seriousness, clicks the safety off on hir Glomp 21, then charges the slide. Shi leaps past the pile, drive-by glomping the others and filling them with .45ACP (Automatic Cuddle Pile) rounds. Oh, the humanity~
Player E witnesses the drive-by and frantically phones the cuddle police. Zomg onoes!


A little exaggerated, perhaps, but I've seen scenes like this in Banter. Now, when you have this and then five other people trying to do something consstructive and RP related, Banter will get crowded. This can happen anywhere, if the right ten people are present in an Outpost. This sort of thing has happened with the old system. Inane scenes which you refuse to ease up on are posts, too, and they contribute to the timer as well. Sure it's fun but it's not necessary, and it takes up space.

As I said before, this Banter has the potential to be a truly useful tool to Story. It just needs some faith and a little bit of change from the players. I have the courage to change! I would like to believe that you lot have it too! I'm optimistic that there's yet people who can impress me and meet my absurd standards. This can help!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 10:43 PM
By: quinn

Content:

Quote by: Jock

I have come to pitch in my two cents

This new banter is chaotic. Yesterday at the busy times the oldest post was 57 seconds old.
I came to the Island well after Banter was introduced and it was one of the things that sold me on staying on the island seeing it in it's current state sickens me.
I watched a Rookie's questions go unanswered because her post was gone buried beneathe everyone else's conversation
Don't glomp/huggle/pounce people in Banter you say? No I won't stop that. You know why? because it is fun to have Banter shenagins.
Banter allowed me to talk to people ooc and story at the same time. Now I must chose which one I want to do.
Hide it you say? Why should I now have to hide Banter because I don't want to have a headache from 60+ people posting at the same time.

The old Banter worked much better and I await its hopeful return.

I apologize if I have upset anyone for repeated what someone else said.



No one said anything about stopping anything. i just mentioned that it's a bit overwhelming in some areas and frankly un-needed.

As for the 57 seconds thing? Today posts have consistently been on the first page for 5 minutes. Also, if a new person's question went unanswered, why the heck didn't you answer it? Or at least ask it again if you didn't know. Or distract them and point them to Location Four which is often checked by veterans for the simple desire to help... There are a lot of options. I personally send a distract to any new person I see with a slew of helpful information rather than putting it in Banter, because banter has always moved fast and I've seen people ignored before this Global system came into being.

It's already been stated that someone else saw a question disappear off the page 'unanswered', until the posts people had been typing were finally finished and added and answered everything it a big rush of helpfulness.

You yourself were there when Scott wanted someone to RP with and his mention of it in Banter brought not 1, but 4 others in to RP with him. When he'd done the same in two separate Outposts in the past. Why is this a bad thing?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 10:51 PM
By: endarr

Content:

Quote by: Agelmar

There are several solutions in front of you! If you can't change the situation, change yourself! If you won't do that, don't complain!

All you can govern is yourself, and if you refuse to do that you can't hold other people to your expectations.

Banter has changed. Feedback is important, yes, but as Harris' first post says, calm down a little. If you're sickened by the current state of things, then you need to step back and cool your toes. So what, Banter was going fast at one point in time? At my time of posting Banter's oldest post is roughly at the same time as NewHome's oldest post. Guess what? Posting times fluctuate. I've had private parties in my own Dwelling run at a minute and a half per page. There were ten people there, not sixty.

There's a lot of things I've seen in my years on the Island that I didn't agree with. But I can't change what people do! I can't fix stupid! I can't dictate the appropriate level of silliness! I would like to, and in fact if there were less silliness my problems and yours too would be solved, but as you refuse to be less silly with your cuddling and glomps, Banter will be flooded with scenes like:
Player A glomps player B!
Player B is glomped!
Player C watches Player A glomp B
Player D walks in and sees glomps! He decides to join in and glomps A and B!
Player C cuddles player A, B and C, brain melted from the inane fuzzy cute shit around him
Player A squarks as she is glomped by Player D. Oh noes!
Player F, sickened by all the seriousness, clicks the safety off on hir Glomp 21, then charges the slide. Shi leaps past the pile, drive-by glomping the others and filling them with .45ACP (Automatic Cuddle Pile) rounds. Oh, the humanity~
Player E witnesses the drive-by and frantically phones the cuddle police. Zomg onoes!


A little exaggerated, perhaps, but I've seen scenes like this in Banter. Now, when you have this and then five other people trying to do something consstructive and RP related, Banter will get crowded. This can happen anywhere, if the right ten people are present in an Outpost. This sort of thing has happened with the old system. Inane scenes which you refuse to ease up on are posts, too, and they contribute to the timer as well. Sure it's fun but it's not necessary, and it takes up space.

As I said before, this Banter has the potential to be a truly useful tool to Story. It just needs some faith and a little bit of change from the players. I have the courage to change! I would like to believe that you lot have it too! I'm optimistic that there's yet people who can impress me and meet my absurd standards. This can help!



This. This right here. Yes.

Honestly, if your only complaint is that you can't be in a horrible, orgy-esque scene without burying a rookie's question, then maybe you need to pull back a bit anyway. Hell, the outposts are not private in any way, so doing that kind of stuff is a little risky in any case.

And if you really need that on both sides, places are going to have their own banters. Take people there.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 05 2012 @ 11:13 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Harris
Non-II chat functions are too inconvenient? Honestly? Distracting people/gchat/e-mail/etc., and/or opening a new tab is too much bother? It's a few mouse clicks, maybe a password typed in. Or, it's a message typed to the people you want to talk to anyway. And what are most of the messaging options anyway, but e-mail derivatives? Clicking your mouse, maybe typing one paragraph, maybe copypasting that paragraph is too much hassle? No. It isn't. This is a stupid point to make, and I really do not think any of you are anything but damn smart.


You're misunderstanding the complaint. It's not difficult to use Google Talk or email people. It's inconvenient. Fundamental difference. It's out of the way. It's not part of the usual process. It's outside the scope of the game. It's external. I don't ask random people I've just met in a game for their personal email account, but it feels much more appropriate for me to talk to them in-game. Using a fire-and-forget system like Distractions doesn't feel like back-and-forth interaction between people, it's like playing phone tag if they're online and writing letters if they're not. In-game chat with a partner is an active, participatory experience that doesn't require a personal relationship with the two parties.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 01:18 AM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

This is sort of drifting off into a discussion on the merits and demerits of glomping. (Is that what it's called nowadays? I'm new to the term.) This seems to raise strong feelings.

For what it's worth, it's not really my cup of tea either. But if that's how other people enjoy themselves, then good for them. That's just as valid as anything that I choose to do.

So is this going to lead to banter fights? Different people all trying to twist banter into their own personal vision? Whether it should be for glomping, for chit chat or exclusively for serious role play discussion or whatever? I sort of hope not.

For what it's worth, my own initial reaction was mild disappointment as we no longer have that space for giving thumbs up to scenes that we particularly like. Well how about that? Most things have some pros and some cons. We notice what we've lost straight away, and take a little while longer to realise what we've gained. It didn't take long to realise that there were now interesting things that we could do with it. I'm still waiting to see how it pans out.

Behaviour will change to adapt over the next week or so, I'll be in a better position to make judgements then.

Is global banter going to cut back on inter-player communication or facilitate it? Probably a bit of both, in different ways.

I'm starting to ramble now. I'll shut up.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 02:38 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

we no longer have that space for giving thumbs up to scenes that we particularly like.



As a semi-related aside: please don't bring back cheers/jeers.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 03:39 AM
By: Ada

Content:

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

This is sort of drifting off into a discussion on the merits and demerits of glomping. (Is that what it's called nowadays? I'm new to the term.) This seems to raise strong feelings.

For what it's worth, it's not really my cup of tea either. But if that's how other people enjoy themselves, then good for them. That's just as valid as anything that I choose to do.

So is this going to lead to banter fights? Different people all trying to twist banter into their own personal vision? Whether it should be for glomping, for chit chat or exclusively for serious role play discussion or whatever? I sort of hope not.

For what it's worth, my own initial reaction was mild disappointment as we no longer have that space for giving thumbs up to scenes that we particularly like. Well how about that? Most things have some pros and some cons. We notice what we've lost straight away, and take a little while longer to realise what we've gained. It didn't take long to realise that there were now interesting things that we could do with it. I'm still waiting to see how it pans out.

Behaviour will change to adapt over the next week or so, I'll be in a better position to make judgements then.

Is global banter going to cut back on inter-player communication or facilitate it? Probably a bit of both, in different ways.

I'm starting to ramble now. I'll shut up.



Distractions still exist! Okay, I know people like to leave banter messages but... unless you're in SquatHole or NP, there are no guarantees whatsoever the person doing the scene will ever ever be able to see it. To anyone reading this: you like a scene, distract the people in it and tell them! You make new friends! They get all warm inside! Everyone is happy.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 03:56 AM
By: Genevieve

Content:

Quote by: Ada

Quote by: Hairy+Mary



For what it's worth, my own initial reaction was mild disappointment as we no longer have that space for giving thumbs up to scenes that we particularly like.



Distractions still exist! Okay, I know people like to leave banter messages but... unless you're in SquatHole or NP, there are no guarantees whatsoever the person doing the scene will ever ever be able to see it. To anyone reading this: you like a scene, distract the people in it and tell them! You make new friends! They get all warm inside! Everyone is happy.



Oh my god it is the fuzziest feeling getting a Distraction like that. This is unrelated to the discussion at hand but I'm a firm believer in sending positive feedback to people if I've observerd/participated in a scene with them. Especially if they're new!

And I've just read everything else that's been posted here so far and Hair did mention this whole.. morality of glomping dealie.

We don't control anyone but ourselves, it's true. But I think that time may teach a new Banter Etiquette.

For now I am, personally, at the stage where I'm content to see where things develop from here, and, as Marly said. Instant Pirates. Just add rum.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 04:18 AM
By: Harris

Content:

Cherri: Not what I meant. There have actually been several technical complaints on the matter of chat programs, and I was firing back at those. Not at you, or anyone who has trouble multitasking. Only at complaints of "programs X and Y are too diffcult to use compared to the ease of Banter" I stand by my statements about those complaints.

Fred: Mayhap I am, and you are right. I hope so, and will continue reading to find out. I rather like being proven wrong, especially at times like this!

P.S.- Youse runs ya joint wid class, Bud. Anyone tells ya oddawise ain't fit ta fill 'is own shoes.

Gen and Agelmar: I'd stage a coup to install the two of you as King and Queen of the Island, but I'm not sure who I'd need to overthrow to do that.
Dan and Crazy Audrey, maybe?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 04:50 AM
By: Agelmar

Content:

Haha, no. I'd be the silliest queen.

I can't do drag, either.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 05:12 AM
By: Genevieve

Content:

Quote by: Harris

Cherri: Not what I meant. There have actually been several technical complaints on the matter of chat programs, and I was firing back at those. Not at you, or anyone who has trouble multitasking. Only at complaints of "programs X and Y are too diffcult to use compared to the ease of Banter" I stand by my statements about those complaints.

Fred: Mayhap I am, and you are right. I hope so, and will continue reading to find out. I rather like being proven wrong, especially at times like this!

P.S.- Youse runs ya joint wid class, Bud. Anyone tells ya oddawise ain't fit ta fill 'is own shoes.

Gen and Agelmar: I'd stage a coup to install the two of you as King and Queen of the Island, but I'm not sure who I'd need to overthrow to do that.
Dan and Crazy Audrey, maybe?



Thought I was already Queen? Big Grin


**Dons Humble Hat and sits in the corner**


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 09:42 AM
By: Sonny

Content:

Quote by: Genevieve

Sonny: Yes, I know the old global could've done that, except I couldn't expect everyone I know to be on global. There were very, very few people using global to begin with, that's what makes this unique.

This ties in with what Collin said. If people were more aware of Global, it may get used more.

Maybe, after this experiment is over, if the link to Global Banter was put somewhere near regular Banter, people would remember wat Global is, and use it more!

But before this, sadly, Sonny, if I popped into Global I would wait a good five minutes for a reply, from people who didn't really want to RP at the time.

Before this, Global Banter was a missed opportunity by a lot of people.


Yes, it was definitely better in the beginning, but unfortunetly less and less people joined in later on. I'm sorry you couldn't find RP-partners there. Hopefully it will be better positioned should the old chat return.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Quote by: Harris
Non-II chat functions are too inconvenient? Honestly? Distracting people/gchat/e-mail/etc., and/or opening a new tab is too much bother? It's a few mouse clicks, maybe a password typed in. Or, it's a message typed to the people you want to talk to anyway. And what are most of the messaging options anyway, but e-mail derivatives? Clicking your mouse, maybe typing one paragraph, maybe copypasting that paragraph is too much hassle? No. It isn't. This is a stupid point to make, and I really do not think any of you are anything but damn smart.


You're misunderstanding the complaint. It's not difficult to use Google Talk or email people. It's inconvenient. Fundamental difference. It's out of the way. It's not part of the usual process. It's outside the scope of the game. It's external. I don't ask random people I've just met in a game for their personal email account, but it feels much more appropriate for me to talk to them in-game. Using a fire-and-forget system like Distractions doesn't feel like back-and-forth interaction between people, it's like playing phone tag if they're online and writing letters if they're not. In-game chat with a partner is an active, participatory experience that doesn't require a personal relationship with the two parties.



Exactly what Fred said!
Of course I found friends through the island and chat with them elsewhere, but to find them I actually talked to them on the island first, you know?
I've had enough distraction conversations to be aware of its limitations.
And just because someone is fun in-game doesn't mean I want to tell them my life story immediately or be available to them whenever I log on to my messaging programs.
There are really great people in this game, but in order to also maintain a normal life without being buried in conversations, however interesting they are, there have to be limitations to it. Like in real life you are not close friends with every one of your acquaintances or work colleagues. Some will become friends and some, frankly, just won't.

Something I would definitely miss is that the former system allowed conversations on the same platform we are playing at and between more than two people, and, while not being private, at least with less interference and noisy backround.

I can understand why many of you like the new banter and not everything is bad about it. It's a good experiment.
For myself it seems the percieved positives still can become negatives and vice versa. By the end of the week the new banter certainly will have changed. Into what remains to be seen and I will give it a try again, no doubt about that.


And all of you, please, remind to acknowledge other people's complaints and thoughts about new systems, no matter how much you differ. It's their valid opinions. You can't argue them away or declare them insignificant or silly compared to your own view of things.
They came here to voice their thoughts, and if they are the same as others have posted before them, then so be it. It's their right to voice them. Don't make them regret doing so. Don't make them feel stupid because they don't exactly agree with the posting elite.

Agree to disagree.

It's a delight to try and understand other points of view. It enriches the island immensly. Just don't forget it.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 02:22 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Sonny

And all of you, please, remind to acknowledge other people's complaints and thoughts about new systems, no matter how much you differ. It's their valid opinions. You can't argue them away or declare them insignificant or silly compared to your own view of things.
They came here to voice their thoughts, and if they are the same as others have posted before them, then so be it. It's their right to voice them. Don't make them regret doing so. Don't make them feel stupid because they don't exactly agree with the posting elite.

Agree to disagree.

It's a delight to try and understand other points of view. It enriches the island immensely. Just don't forget it.

Hauling this out to highlight it, and heartily agree with it.

And to remark that on the Enquirer, there is no elite. A big "Posts:" number? It only indicates someone who has been very wordy about their opinions!

Confused Eek!

Twisted Evil Except for me. Obviously my opinions count for mor- oh, wait. No, they don't! Mr. Green


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 02:49 PM
By: jenkins

Content:

Quote by: Sonny

Something I would definitely miss is that the former system allowed conversations on the same platform we are playing at and between more than two people, and, while not being private, at least with less interference and noisy backround.



Exactly.

Let's say I'm rping with person A, B, and C in an outpost, and person A did something particularly funny, or confusing.

With local Banter, I could say

Jenkins says "Ha."
Person A says "Thankyou, I thought that was quite a good pun."

or

Jenkins says "Wait, what's in the box?"
Person A says "Oh, it's a (Insert object here)"

But if I said that in Global, I'd be lucky if they even saw the post.

If they chose to hold Banter open, which, as far as I know, alot of people are currently choosing not to, including me.

If they did manage to see it in the 50 seconds - 3 mins of Banter one there (That's about the average right? I saw it at 6 mins, when very few people were on today, but that's as slow as I've seen it) then everyone else is confused in the midst of their cuddles/inane chat/glomps/whatever, by the fact that what I'm saying makes absolutely no sense to them.

I like the idea of being able to throw a party and inviting the entire island to it, but geeze, do we really need to destroy a type of Banter that quite a few people enjoyed?

And on those who say that it's calming down, I'm pretty sure that's because everyone's closing Banter completely.
When chat gets down to about 5 mins before disapearing, I usually jet to another area of the island, I just don't like crowded areas. It's quick, and can be fun, but it's just too much of a bother, I can't read everybody's post so I only read one person's anyways. Now, you've made it so I can't escape that clutter, other than by closing Banter. Which isn't that horribly awful, but when people have to close out something they used to and enjoy, that's just probably a bad idea. And it might change, through more and more people ignoring Banter until it evens out. And once it's evened out, you've taken away what many contestants enjoy in the island. That's just bad.

I truly, truly hope this remains an expirement, and it's over within a week.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 04:07 PM
By: Harris

Content:

Quote by: Sonny


And all of you, please, remind to acknowledge other people's complaints and thoughts about new systems, no matter how much you differ. It's their valid opinions. You can't argue them away or declare them insignificant or silly compared to your own view of things.
They came here to voice their thoughts, and if they are the same as others have posted before them, then so be it. It's their right to voice them. Don't make them regret doing so. Don't make them feel stupid because they don't exactly agree with the posting elite.

Agree to disagree.

It's a delight to try and understand other points of view. It enriches the island immensly. Just don't forget it.



I loved what you had to say, and would've gladly shook on it, until here. This...sucked. Why?

"it's their valid opinions. You can't argue them away..."

So, it's okay to disagree if we're discussing things that are agreed upon as fact, but no-one may speak if they disagree with an opinion?

NO. That is not okay.

Two people are going to have different opinions. Even if they are very, very similar, there will still be small differences. Other times, there will be vastly different opinions. You are right, different opinions, like different definitions of facts (just have a look at a definition in the dictionary, if you're not sure what I mean. Any definition.) exist, and will continue to, and we should keep that in mind. That's quite true, and I do not argue there.

The rest is where I have to stop you.

Where has anyone declared someone's opinion "insignificant or silly" happened? I know I called arguments made that the technical process of using another chat program, and even opening a new desktop window stupid, but then I backed it up with relevant portions of the processes of using chat programs, and opening new windows to support that point.

You've made a bold claim there that calls people derisive that you do not back up at all. Since you seem to want peace very badly here, I have to call you out on this, because THAT does not bring peace. Folk are left to guess, not analyze, and with polarizing claims like 'people are being hurt here', that causes division, not togetherness.



"...it's their valid opinions. You can't argue them away..."

So, we can't learn from each other? We cannot exchange ideas if we have a dissenting opinion? I hope this is not what you mean, as this would be just as arrogant and dismissive as you are making accusations of other people being, but you go on to reinforce this very strongly.

"Don't make them feel stupid because they don't exactly agree with the posting elite."

The "posting elite". Well. One, you do not back that opinion up either, so I can only guess as to who you mean, because you leave literally no definition of who you mean. Two, taken in conjunction with the "You can't argue them away..." point, you are pointing to a specific group as not being allowed to discuss things if they disagree.

And please, before you disagree on that, remember that the ONLY way for two or more parties to discuss differing opinions is to debate them. To argue them.

Finally, "agree to disagree". This is useful, but only once debates have stalled completely, with no side managing to convince either of anything. It's not a thing that should be thrown in simply because the debate has become difficult- unless the debate isn't really wanted anyway.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 04:10 PM
By: Harris

Content:

Also, Sonny and Jenkins: neither of you mention the expanded Places chat being rolled out. Do you not like that at all, or...?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 04:20 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Erm... Harris? I didn't read Sonny's post as a criticism of anyone.

Paraphrased: If you don't agree with someone's opinion, it's fine to disagree with them and state your own view, just try to do it in a way that acknowledges and respects them.

That's called being courteous.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 04:33 PM
By: Harris

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Erm... Harris? I didn't read Sonny's post as a criticism of anyone.

Paraphrased: If you don't agree with someone's opinion, it's fine to disagree with them and state your own view, just try to do it in a way that acknowledges and respects them.

That's called being courteous.



I saw courtesy AND wisdom until the end there (as I quoted), but I will try to rephrase my points for you and anyone else who might not see it, and as well hopefully also come up with clearer citations from what he said... as soon as I can figure out how. I'm drawing a blank right now.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 05:35 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

If I push, and you* disagree, push back. Your debate opponent is not the arbitrator of your debate. The only people who won't let you express your opinion is a moderator, and that's only if the message is deemed to cause more harm to the overall environment than what the message would meaningfully contribute to the debate.

When I disagree with you, don't get hurt when I tell you, "Of course this is a bad idea. It's obviously better to be that." Just parry and riposte. "No, it's not that simple and obvious. You've forgotten this and that." It's not an uncivil street fight where the defeated is killed, it's an organized sparring match for the benefit of the competitors and the audience.

I'm getting tired of each recent thread veering off into, "Why do you think it's fair that I can't express my dissent?" You can express your dissent, no matter what your opponent says. Get back on course and keep discussing.

*This is the general "you" and is not addressed to anyone.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 05:53 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

If I push, and you* disagree, push back. Your debate opponent is not the arbitrator of your debate. The only people who won't let you express your opinion is a moderator, and that's only if the message is deemed to cause more harm to the overall environment than what the message would meaningfully contribute to the debate.

When I disagree with you, don't get hurt when I tell you, "Of course this is a bad idea. It's obviously better to be that." Just parry and riposte. "No, it's not that simple and obvious. You've forgotten this and that." It's not an uncivil street fight where the defeated is killed, it's an organized sparring match for the benefit of the competitors and the audience.

I'm getting tired of each recent thread veering off into, "Why do you think it's fair that I can't express my dissent?" You can express your dissent, no matter what your opponent says. Get back on course and keep discussing.

*This is the general "you" and is not addressed to anyone.



Yes, but what would be even better would be a friendly debate would it not? It would for me anyway.

In a debate, I'm more interested in taking on board your thoughts and considering them, and perhaps even gaining something from then. In a fight, even an organised sparring match, I'm more interested in jabbing and avoiding being jabbed.

When you feel as if somebody's trying to push you into a position (whether or not they are trying to push you into a position) then you can either go where you're pushed, or fight back and go in the opposite direction. It's incredibly hard to find the place to stand that suits you best unless you already knew where it was and are going to stick to it like a limpet.

Take this post as a case in point. I could have picked up on the "I'm getting tired of each recent thread..." part and said "Well Awesome, if you're getting tired then please feel free to fuck off elsewhere." But I didn't, at least in part because I didn't think that that's the best way to get the most interesting comments from you or anybody else.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 06:04 PM
By: Maniak

Content:

Harris, Awesome Fred, Hairy Mary, thank you all for the lessons on Advanced Debating, I'll certainly keep those insight in mind with the coming elections. Now, let's go back to Debating 101; staying on topic.


This banter is what I originally hoped for when Global Banter got rolled out. I'm not opposed to a different chatspace with more people than just the same familiar faces you see every day in Global/Kittania/NewHome. But I do oppose removing the Local Banters, simply because they gave Outposts their own feeling. The Kittania-banter was different from the NewHome banter, and that is something I do miss. You had a choice of different places to go to depending on your mood. If you wanted a more quiet place or didn't like the topic at hand, you could move.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 06:22 PM
By: Iriana

Content:

Quote by: Maniak

Harris, Awesome Fred, Hairy Mary, thank you all for the lessons on Advanced Debating, I'll certainly keep those insight in mind with the coming elections. Now, let's go back to Debating 101; staying on topic.


Bless your heart, Maniak.

I think everyone's been fairly civil in this thread, as compared to the discussions that happened in actual Banter, but the thing that bothered me most about your post, Sonny, was that you mentioned a "posting elite", and to be honest, that made me sort of sad. I hate to think that there is any kind of elite, either on the Enquirer or on the Island itself, that divides people by making them think that there is some elite (which does not include them) that does things a Certain Way and looks down their long, aristocratic noses on anyone who does things Another Way.

No one tries to do this! Like Sessine said, people with a bigger post count are just more talkative. Not a mark of honor by any means. If you're going off of post count, all the "posting elite" are disagreeing with each other, anyways.

In short, don't be too sensitive if someone attacks your position, because that's what debate is; on the other hand, be courteous no matter what your position is. There we go. Back on point.

Is there a new Places version of Banter being rolled out? Or did you mean "it's in the works" and not "a version is actually available for you to enable in your Dwelling"? I tried to find it and couldn't, so. I'm watching Banter now (earliest post is 7 minutes ago, not bad, and there also hasn't been a post for 3 minutes) and someone's mentioned that NewHome seems quiet, mostly rookies, and that people are migrating to Places to talk.

In the slower hours, I rather like it. Sometimes it's nice to be able to see Banter from inside my Place, and it's equally as nice to be able to hide it when I don't want to see it. Yesterday, at a busier time, about 2 minutes a page, I asked if anyone wanted to do a scene, and a few people responded. So in that sense, it works.

Maniak, I think the Story of each Outpost is supposed to give each outpost their own feeling. Was there ever much Banter chatter going on in CC404? AceHigh? And from what I remember, Kittania and NewHome often sounded fairly similar to me. Putting Local Banter back will empty out Global. I don't think they'll coexist very well.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 06 2012 @ 07:22 PM
By: Trowa

Content:

Quote by: Iriana

Maniak, I think the Story of each Outpost is supposed to give each outpost their own feeling. Was there ever much Banter chatter going on in CC404? AceHigh? And from what I remember, Kittania and NewHome often sounded fairly similar to me. Putting Local Banter back will empty out Global. I don't think they'll coexist very well.


Just chiming in to give the example that the local Banter of 404 used to contain commentary of outpost-defender exploits. (Not specifically OST folk, just anyone in general who fought in the jungle and built on the walls.) Just the usual "I was here" stuff, although some people also do that in Story. It may not have been "much," but what little there was still felt significant.

Maybe not what Maniak meant, but just my two cents.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 12:12 AM
By: Ada

Content:

Quote by: Maniak

Harris, Awesome Fred, Hairy Mary, thank you all for the lessons on Advanced Debating, I'll certainly keep those insight in mind with the coming elections. Now, let's go back to Debating 101; staying on topic.


This banter is what I originally hoped for when Global Banter got rolled out. I'm not opposed to a different chatspace with more people than just the same familiar faces you see every day in Global/Kittania/NewHome. But I do oppose removing the Local Banters, simply because they gave Outposts their own feeling. The Kittania-banter was different from the NewHome banter, and that is something I do miss. You had a choice of different places to go to depending on your mood. If you wanted a more quiet place or didn't like the topic at hand, you could move.




I think there's some positive to this too, though - the problem before was that only Kitt and NH banters moved at a reasonable clip. So people who wanted to chat had to go there, so those banters got faster and the others got slower, so people who wanted to chat had to go there, so those banters... etc. With all banters the same, my hope is that people won't feel they need to hang around NewHome all the time just to get some conversation, which (hopefully!) will encourage people to give the noobs in noobhome some more space, and also allow people who like to chat as they level to go explore more - like up to Cyb, for example. It will also mean that, if you're a hapless newbie and end up on the Failboat at the beginning of the day when no one is there, you'll still be able to talk to people for game tips and so on.

So, some good and some bad, I think. Right now I think the negatives are more pronounced, but give it some time for people to change their habits a bit and we might find that the positives start to outweigh them.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 09:15 AM
By: Grey

Content:

Ummm, I've just spent the last half hour reading through all of the posts above, and well... Throughout most of the above I've seen two main sides, and the simplest forms of the arguments are

"I think Banter should be for constructive uses towards story." and "I think Banter should be for what ever I want it to be."

Yet, each one I seem to not see something taken into account, Banter itself, the word, Which by definition means

"The playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks."

Now if we go for the serious side of banter should be a story aid, then Banter itself is a misnomer, and I can see why allot of people treat it this way, it's name has it's roots in silliness and fun, though on the other side of the argument, there is going too far and being too silly.

Now for my opinion
Personally, I like to head into banter when I log on, I will quite often hug, snuggle and even hugtackle people, I do this because I feel it is an adequate display of my affection and friendship towards the people I have spent the last two and a half years getting to know, now this is no different to how I treat my friends in Real life, I am often known as being a fool, to do silly and often stupid things and to be generally a ball of hug based energy. Though thankfully I have begun to mature of late and tone down some of my idiocy, I'd honestly feel as if I lost something if I weren't allowed to grab one of my friends in banter, pull them onto the metaphysical object that is the couch of banter, and snuggle up to them.

Yes, quite often of late I have neglected story, though often this is not entirely my own fault, I have problems with shyness and allot of my craziness is to help me get past that, and I've been doing it for so long that it's second nature. Though I do have my limits, yes a good number of you will say "But you're usually in those very silly and stupid rolling balls of hugs in banter." I indeed am, and though I make the initial hug, it is often (90% of the time if I had to guess) someone else who escalates it to that, not me. There are also times that I feel just too... Awkward to even touch story, and there are people who intimidate, annoy or something me enough that I'll stay away, only a couple of months ago I mostly got over the feelings of intimidation I get to the veteran players of the island, and by veteran I mean those who had been played II for about as long as I have when I started to play, the only one I wasn't really scared of is Carter. Quite often if somone like Eben or Praco or more was in story I'd stay away from it, I was even scared of Bob in banter until I forced myself to pounce that ridiculously long and fluffy tail of his.

But enough of what I think should be banter for... to sum this all up for those who don't want to read a load of text. If you want banter to be sensible, change the name to something else, because the root word is not sensible, and if it's kept there will always be silliness.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 10:55 AM
By: Waverly

Content:

Quote by: Grey



There are also times that I feel just too... Awkward to even touch story, and there are people who intimidate, annoy or something me enough that I'll stay away, only a couple of months ago I mostly got over the feelings of intimidation I get to the veteran players of the island, and by veteran I mean those who had been played II for about as long as I have when I started to play, the only one I wasn't really scared of is Carter.

Quite often if somone like Eben or Praco or more was in story I'd stay away from it, I was even scared of Bob in banter until I forced myself to pounce that ridiculously long and fluffy tail of his.




This post makes me ashamed of myself, because I can see myself in it. And I'll tell you why- first by admitting that "hugsnuggle" Banter or Story has caused me to roll my eyes before. And swear mildly. And when the new Banter experiment started, I too complained about how "Oh no, now it's a global 'Kittania Banter!' Horror!"

But back in the day, I was a hugsnuggler. I beat people around the face with churros, made my kittymorph character melt all over people and was extremely silly in general. I wrote entire scenes in Banter that could have been written in Story, but I didn't want them to be "real" scenes, as it were, so Banter it was.

During this time of insanity, I noticed people who wrote good stories in Outposts. Stories I quite liked to read. So when inevitably I ambled my absentminded, crazy flop-snuggle character into their scenes and stuck myself in their faces like an idiot in the hope of playing along, there was a sort of collective sigh.
And then the distracts began.

I helpfully got "corrected" on my RP etiquette, sure, but also on my writing style, discouraged from my friendship with another character who was considered "bad", my storylines and pretty much my everything. I was told I was a "good rookie", an interesting term.

While part of me appreciates the help, thinking back, I remember this as the time when I slowly became aware that there was a subculture of players on the Island who regarded rookies as something of a global village idiot population, and people who didn't graduate from their rookiness to ascend to the prescribed levels of "goodness" were a lost cause. They were the "drama llamas", the "NewHomeites", the "Kittaniaites", the perpetual 'morphs.

All of which I had quite happily been up to that point.

I became horribly selfconcious about my writing. I decided, rather than be considered a maladjusted, awkward and generally pitiable player, that I would try to emulate as closely as possible the people I had admired, all the while harboring a manic desire for approval. I became a scorner of my own writing. I called it horrible and laughed with others about how bad I had been. I jeered at characters I had once played with and completely, totally, one hundred percent became the very thing that had made me so miserable, which is a Veteran Player with Standards.

I know other players have had a similar experience. And don't think the stage fright goes away, either. I could name a dozen people, not including myself, who I've seen time and again pick apart their own writing and disparage themselves until all that remains is a lump of headachy, self-critical lurker who won't write in public. When you care more about what other people think than you do about enjoying a scene, something is wrong.

Perhaps the worst part is that none of the people who made me feel so horrible about myself ever intended to. Most of them are now friends, all of them kind and honestly wanting to help. And I am not contradicting the fact there are sometimes players who don't follow the Rule, aka Don't be a Dick, and need correction. That's still true.

But I find myself now struck by the utter hypocrisy of my own Banter-related complaints.

Here I am bitching about people who are purring and laughing and snuggling in Outposts and Banter, and being ridiculous, and I used to write exactly the same way. And I never had so much fun in my life. The friendships I made back then were lasting and transcended the Island to become Real Life, something that never happened with the other sites I've frequented throughout the years. I hugely enjoyed the sense of community that first presented itself to me when I was new. Now I can see battle lines drawn in the sand.

I guess the point I'm trying to make at length is that for every character we want to rip out our hair over in Banter who's nomming or hugging and or doing things unrelated to Story, there is a real, live human being with feelings who's writing them. They are probably very much aware of you if you're a "Verteran" player. They probably know you find them irritating.

All any player on the Island wants to do is have fun with their friends, usually in an Outpost or Banter, which mind you are supposed to be public forums. They like the game the way they play it. In Banter or out, they'll keep writing they way they are comfortable with no matter how many people raise a cry about how you can't have a Jaguar-morph ninja cyborg character with four personalities tacklehugging someone on a virtual couch. People have a right to their own characters.

And for myself, I'm going to unmute Banter.



(Okay, I know this is a rant of epic proportions, somewhat off-topic, probably sketchy in places and badly worded, but it's almost six in the morning now and when it's six in the morning I can't bring myself to care about anything but sleep. So apologies in advance. ) Mr. Green


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 11:46 AM
By: Matthew

Content:

That post warmed my heart enough to change my Smug Cat avatar back to my Happy Kitty avatar.

You know what? This Global Banter stuff is okay.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 11:54 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Waverly,

I find your post incredibly honest and cathartic and I makes me realize some similar elements of my past, though not from the island. I'm glad you wrote it. I probably don't RP because I don't enjoy the attitudes of either Veterans With Standards nor the HuggleGlomps crowds, both with which I've associated elsewhere during my adolescent groups.

I think, after considering all those details, the main justifiable complaint by the Veterans With Standards group is that the change to Global Banter means they cannot ignore the population that tears their hair out, whereas with isolated Banters, they could much easier get along with them. I think Global Banter necessitates two opposing sides to conflict with each other everywhere they go, whereas the previous system meant that these two rival forces could be safely separated.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 12:08 PM
By: Twosocks+Monkey

Content:

Thank you Waverly,

I tried to write a meaningful post back but all I really want to say is Thanks and Good Post.

-Rose


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 03:44 PM
By: Buddleia

Content:

Quote by: Waverly


[An epic post]



This post makes me sad.

Because it is true.

I am the same. When I started playing II, it was all about the socialising. Doing the things that I have just dismissed as "inane" and "unnecessary". I had a great deal of fun just being silly hanging out with friends.

Then I saw some people doing really interesting writing. I was inspired; I wanted to become A Better Writer, and started logging scenes - and thinking of them as Roleplaying Scenes, written by narrators about characters, rather than just "hanging out having fun with friends". I started putting in a lot of effort, really thinking through each line I posted, trying to write A Good Story and A Good Scene and A Good Character. I became disappointed in and no longer enjoyed what I had learned to judge as Not Good Writing and Not Good Characters/Plotlines/Scenes/etc. I became one of the Veterans With Standards.

What does this mean for me? I hardly roleplay at all, nowdays. When I do, every word is agonised over, and I have much less fun. I no longer have any close friends who I play with. I spend most of my time travelling and hunting and building/writing/programming my Places, or lurking to read other peoples' writings.
What does this mean for other people? They see hardly anything of Buddleia at all - though what few scenes they may find in obscure places are perhaps tolerably well written as stories to be read.
What does it mean for CMJ? Less load on the servers from my posting, certainly, but also less in donations. I totted up how much it's been since I started playing, and I'm not going to publicise the total - but I gave more than half of it in my first year, and it's been steadily tailing off. Admittedly I lost my job and there are now fewer Shiny Things to buy which I don't already have, but nowdays I mostly donate to say "thanks for fixing that bug, it pleases me" or "want that shiny" rather than "thanks for all the awesome times and delightful fun you're providing me with".

So, yes, thank you for posting that, Waverly. It really reminded me and really got the message across that other people are having fun and if I'm not enjoying it then that's my problem.



Ok, that was off-topic for the original purpose of the thread. I'll go back to Global Banter now.

So far, I haven't really liked it because, as above, I have become a critical recluse, and suddenly everywhere there were lots and lots and lots of people posting very fast having fun and I couldn't make head or tail of any of it. The few things I wanted to see got scrolled off the page within minutes. Yup, chaos, just as I predicted.


Oddly enough, seeing where it's going, I find: I would actually like there to be a Local Banter in outposts (for local scene-related messages), and a Global Banter for everything-related everything, and a Different Global Banter equivalent for ... for things which aren't socialising. (IE, Location Four.) Since there's a Story channel, Location Four for rookie questions and Titan-spotting / free logs / today's foods / etc, and now the 25c-a-post Noticeboard ... ok, how many channels can we fit on a page, and which should be viewed via a link?

- I'm happy with L4 being in a sidebar link, though if it's going to take the place of the old Global Banter as an island-wide Slow Discussions thing then it would be nice if it was available from everywhere like Old Global was.
- New Global Banter as it is ideally would be in the same Banter channel position.
- New Local Banter, if it comes back, also ideally would be in the same banter channel position.
- Outpost Noticeboards, I guess it makes sense that those are only visible from in Outposts?
- And Story is everywhere except the places it isn't (though of course having more Story channels in restaurants as well as pubs, map, outposts, Places etc would also be cool).

What I think would be cool, for managing all these different channels ... would be if we could chose which ones were open and closed, and how to stack/split them. My ideal arrangement would be

Storystorystorystorystory
Storystorystorystorystory
Storystorystorystorystory
Storystorystorystorystory
-------------------------------------
LocalLocal | GlobalGlobal
LocalLocal | GlobalGlobal
-------------------------------------
NoticeboardNoticeboard
NoticeboardNoticeboard

(Horrible ASCII Diagrams a speciality! Contact your nearest Buddleia to commission Even Uglier ASCII Arts!) But this will be different for everyone, and I may want to turn off Banters as and when. Of course, we can't have infinitely many channels to post into, and they can't all be on the screen all the time. I dunno. Yes, you can use gchat and Distractions and so on for most things, but there are many things I miss about having a Local Banter and a slow Global Banter.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 04:27 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

PHP Formatted Code

---------------------------
|                         |
|                         |
|          STORY          |
|                         |
|                         |
---------------------------
|            |            |
|   LOCAL    |   GLOBAL   |
|            |            |
---------------------------
|                         |
|       NOTICEBOARD       |
|                         |
---------------------------
 


Buddleia, I'm a master at ASCII art, drop a line when you need it. Wink

EDIT: Odd, it seems a link is created when you type GLOBAL in code.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 04:44 PM
By: LydiaDefountain

Content:

I like the new banter...

mostly because.. why my character has ic'ly become a bit reclusive.. she heads out to outposts on occation just.. not as much.. there hasn't been much new of trouble or anything that has reached her, and she doesn't need to go in to get her training/fighting done...

For and I don't have as much time to rp for hours in outposts where the posting speed is faster then perhaps I can do while doing housework(or particularily avoiding housework) while rping.

I Really like global banter because I can just post random sillyness, it can become a bit of a scene if I can post a few quick posts but then I can be silent and just read up at my leasure and enetertainment and not worry about feeling I need to post quick.. because it is banter not story.. it is the place of sillyness and ooc interactions

and now I'm not just the slow posting recluse in my Oasis.

I find it great for building.. sure there was the old global banter and I could rp a bit with Sonny and Omega and full Metal lion as the mood struck but being in a new tab I tended to forget I have it open and stop posting.. and if people aren't posting within 5min or so there well everyone seems to leave... which happened often.

The place options sound awesome too and will likely help ease up on the speed of the one big Banter.

I Really like this banter.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 04:48 PM
By: Harris

Content:

I don't think it's a problem that folk have their, uh... "romantic fun pile" (for lack of a better term, I swear!) that they're writing in Banter. I don't think it's a problem to have or to write. I DO think it's a bad thing to write that only in Banter, though.

I remember before we had banter, when folks would post the sort of antics we're now used to seeing in Banter, in Story. And yeah, many of us who didn't initiate any such thing, myself included sometimes were not in the mood to participate, or even address anyone in such a confusing morass of plotless goofiness, BUT.

As has already been said in here, what happened to art for art's sake? -What happened to goofiness for goofiness' sake in this game about fighting the Improbability Drive on a reality TV show with Robots and Midgets? It has largely moved to Banter. Why? I would speculate that it's because writing all of that in the chat channel is easier than writing it in Story- it's easier to go where there is no necessity for making sure you're staying in a coherent plot/ interacting with the setting in meaningful ways/what have you.

The reason why I say posting the truly insane goofiness only in Banter is bad twofold- because THIS IS IMPROBABLE ISLAND. It has chainsaw chuks, foetid Midget brothels, and that truly terrifying silent killer... THE MOOSE.

No no no no no NO, this is NOT a game for SERIOUS BUSINESS.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't mean serious stories (or subplots)have no place. They do. Good humor is balanced by a good balance with tension/drama/etc., and good drama is balanced well with a well-timed joke or two. Or nine. Wink I just mean that SERIOUS is NOT a PREREQUISITE, and don't let ANYONE tell you OTHERWISE.

(This message brought to you by Corporal Punishment)

The final point that I find the completely unstructured silliness being kept in Banter is this: Ever sat down to play a game with friends, and you all got together to play this game, and all said you wanted to... and a group splits off from everyone else to do their own thing, while everyone else is still playing the first game? And neither of the (NOW two groups) ends up paying much attention to each other, because they're no longer playing the same game, and are naturally focused on each separate thing they're doing?*


*Yes, I have. I play tabletop roleplaying games regularly, and OH BOY is this easy to have happen.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 04:50 PM
By: Harris

Content:

Footnote: I just realized I have no idea how to talk about this feature without talking about what we have been using it for, just as much as what we can use it for. Hmm...


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 06:09 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

We're certainly learning things, aren't we?

Even if we do end up going back to local-only Banter (and I still think it's too early to say whether we will or we won't), we've certainly come away from the experience wiser for having had it.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 07:13 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

We're certainly learning things, aren't we?

Even if we do end up going back to local-only Banter (and I still think it's too early to say whether we will or we won't), we've certainly come away from the experience wiser for having had it.



No kidding. Waverly's post in particular was the most interesting that I've seen for a long time.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 07:17 PM
By: Sonny

Content:

Grey, interesting point you are bringing up with the meaning of banter.

Hairy Mary, Fred and Sessine, thanks for your insights/advice/examples on debating, I will try to remember and use them. Smile


Waverly, Buddleia, Grey and also Fred, you explained it perfectly.
It feels to me like sometimes the same sort of separation of groups also permeates the forum, and some might try to force their standards on all the rest. Then, once their counterparts get tired of it and stay silent, an agreeable consent is found, everyone left moves to a new topic, and the rest is forgotten. In short, discussing till enough people give up so their controverse opinions can seemingly be dismissed and never acknowledged again.
Eventually someone new might bring it up, only to be directed to the old thread and sort of told that things have been decided to be so and so, and that's it, or the same process happening anew.

Mind you, I might exagerate a bit, and I'm not saying it is always happening. It could easily be only me being very sensitive to any sort of peer pressure and elitism and whatever else there is, and as was said by other much better, people might not be aware of others percieving it as such. I really don't intend to accuse anyone in specific, I just try to express my thoughts, and hope I did it better this time.


And Harris, yes, I have no experience in debating, I try not to take it personal, but I don't know what you want to hear. I won't do any name-calling, and I can't make a list of all the bits that led me to my conclusions or what exactly caused me to voice them here just now. If you feel offended by my unexperienced attempt at preventing what I thought might happen again as described above, and reminding everyone, including me, to be courteous, considerate - and maybe that some just want to post what they wanted to say, and not get further involved in lengthy discussions. That some are just new to the game and not prepared to be bombarded with deep analyses of their opinions by people with years of experience in this game and knowledge of all the discussions that came before . That too much dissecting and countering of their posts might keep people from coming back - well, then I seem to have failed. Sorry.
I hope it wasn't too vague for you this time.


I had no time to take a look at the new banter in places, but I think there are many that will like being connected to the rest of the island while building or RP. It's a good feature, and bound to have more activity compared to the other global. (because there is no alternative Laughing Out Loud )


LydiaDefountain, yes, I also often forgot I had global open when I did other things simultaneously, but at least it was slow enough to catch up when I remembered about the Island. Mr. Green
I prefer slower outposts, because it gets stressful to try and keep up with the fast RP, and it's too easy to overlook the partner's lines. Not that I played much in the last months, but I at least had to try the new features. =)


And to Harris' other post. I think I understand what you mean there. It really can be hard to find the right balance.
RP depends a lot on the payers' moods. Maybe that also feeds into your theory, in that at some point the funny, crazy sort of stuff shifted too much into banter and story became more and more serious, because the players at that moment looking for fun found it in banter, and those looking for the serious stuff in story? Then over time it just amplified, till now the fun and crazy-centered stories tend to happend somewhere else?



CMJ! You gave us some interesting and cool new things lately. Thanks for them, no matter how much I complain, or this new banter turns out! Big Grin


I think this was enough for now, and you might not get another reply out of me for some time :3


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 07:44 PM
By: Cherriki+Ten

Content:

**foot shuffle**

I'll admit. I have warmed up to the new banter. 's not so bad.

Oops!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 08:17 PM
By: Collin-Vee

Content:

Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

**foot shuffle**

I'll admit. I have warmed up to the new banter. 's not so bad.

Oops!



:/ I still prefer old banter with Global being separate.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 09:01 PM
By: LydiaDefountain

Content:

I still believe the new banter will slow down as the place options roll out.. are they coming before we declare if the experiment is good or bad? please? it would likely drastically change some peoples opinions if we had a better idea of what all it is going to be together... I know coding takes a bit longer but... pretty please?

I think when people have banter options the global banter will move a bit slower as some of the rp specific banter gets to be in their place


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 09:04 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

I dunno, it's warming up to me too.

Instead of logging on and being bored, at least now I always have someone to talk to. And the hugglepouncesquee, I noticed, is lessening a bit. But it's not too serious. We are at an acceptable level of silly.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 09:51 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

So. We're learning about how people use Banter for different things, and how people use Banter for Story-related things (which was originally a BIG part of why I made the Banter channel in the first place).

Would there be any interest in a feature where you could type, say:

/aside30 The box I just gave you has an amorous badger in it.


And it would show up as:

01m02s Admin CavemanJoe passes you a box.00m50s Admin CavemanJoe says "The box I just gave you has an amorous badger in it."00m20s Player McConfused opens the box. "Oh... my."

And the Aside comment would auto-GREM itself thirty seconds later?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 10:03 PM
By: talkydoor

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe



Would there be any interest in a feature where you could type, say:

/aside30 The box I just gave you has an amorous badger in it.


And it would show up as:

01m02s Admin CavemanJoe passes you a box.00m50s Admin CavemanJoe says "The box I just gave you has an amorous badger in it."00m20s Player McConfused opens the box. "Oh... my."

And the Aside comment would auto-GREM itself thirty seconds later?



My preciousss..... Ahem. I mean, yes, I would have much interest in playing with this feature.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 10:05 PM
By: LydiaDefountain

Content:

That seems rather useful.. especially for when in a outpost and people are rping quicker.. And maybe even for things like ooc in common grounds.. ya that seems cool..

Though just as a question would a /aside60 be doable as well

Just cause I'm not sure I see most posts with 30 seconds.. when my connection was bad I had to manually refresh and didn't see the posts for 45 secs at the fastest.. but when in an outpost now with a decent connection I think seeing something within the min is doable..


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 10:47 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

To differentiate it, the output could be

As an aside, Admin CavemanJoe says "The box I just gave you has an amorous badger in it."


Oh, another thought. Maybe go a bit further, and to separate it from actual in-character roleplay, surround it in parenthesis?

So
/aside30 The box I just gave you has an amorous badger in it.
becomes:

((As an aside, Admin CavemanJoe says "The box I just gave you has an amorous badger in it."))


Just got another suggestion: why not use the disabled `J blue color for those?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 11:00 PM
By: Buddleia

Content:

Would these Asides be posted into Story or Banter?

It does sound like they might be rather cool (and I do like the idea of their transience being indicated somehow), but they would only work for people who

a) have Autoupdate turned on, and
b) Autoupdate is working correctly for them, and
c) they are paying close attention to the correct channel at the right time.

For instance, I usually leave UA turned off. Even when roleplaying - just hitting Refresh every few minutes is fine with me, if people aren't posting a mile a minute. So unless an /aside300 or more was used, I wouldn't see them.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 07 2012 @ 11:51 PM
By: Svergon

Content:

I would agree with Buddleia. Anything self-deleting sounds good, but a minor technical hitch or a real-life distraction would be all it would take to make it defeat its own purpose.

Speaking for myself, I can't make use of auto-update most of the time, so anything less than a few minutes would have a good chance of being effectively invisible to me.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 08 2012 @ 12:35 AM
By: Trowa

Content:

Self-destructing posts?! That is so fucking brilliant I have to go change my pants. Oops!

I do agree they should be differentiated from normal posts, too, maybe with parenthesis (normal for ooc comments in roleplaying chatrooms in my experience) or something else extra-special.

As my own aside: I've toyed with the idea of using the `m code to make text invisible in Story posts to provide beneficial (or silly) information to the other player(s) without ruining the flow, but I'm not entirely comfortable with it because sometimes it's easy to miss, especially considering I don't know how the other person's screen looks (or if they use a screen reader, maybe! that would be awkward).

Aside-aside: I agree with lots of the posts since Waverly's. The most interesting aspect to me is that many of us have had such similar experiences.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 08 2012 @ 12:43 AM
By: Ada

Content:

I feel like that would just encourage sloppy roleplaying? We can get that sort of thing across in greytext and so on already, with minimal creativity. And as has been noted, unless people are really glued to the channel, they might miss it entirely.

Moreover, I think that would remove another reason for us to pay you for specials.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 08 2012 @ 01:11 AM
By: Temper

Content:

Personally, I like the new banter. I don't even care if people are just going to be talking about random things. Yes, I could do without some of the uh. Boobhats and probably-groping-but-we're-not-using-that-word-okay, but I haven't had any problems with it!

So, I guess.

I think it's pretty okay?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 08 2012 @ 03:00 AM
By: Omega

Content:

I feel one problem in self destructing posts is that they would allow me to cause unprecedented confusion everywhere. All the time.



Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 08 2012 @ 02:31 PM
By: Cicero

Content:

Quote by: Omega

I feel one problem in self destructing posts is that they would allow me to cause unprecedented confusion everywhere. All the time.

I think this would be especially confusing for new players. It took me while just to figure out emoting and color codes without having some posts disappearing every so often.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 08 2012 @ 08:55 PM
By: Cherriki+Ten

Content:

Quote by: Cicero

Quote by: Omega

I feel one problem in self destructing posts is that they would allow me to cause unprecedented confusion everywhere. All the time.

I think this would be especially confusing for new players. It took me while just to figure out emoting and color codes without having some posts disappearing every so often.




I do like the idea of Asides but I am with Cicero here.


Would there be anyway that when starting out new on the island, we have a new page that explains newer game features, specifically roleplay ones. Perhaps even add it on as part of the rules page that pops up?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 09 2012 @ 06:19 AM
By: Sartira

Content:

On ‹berbanter
Pros
I agree that it's nice to have a way to see who might be active without traveling to an outpost (especially if you're building), but you still can't tell from the map if you're out exploring or crate hunting. I don't consider this a problem since I rarely spend a lot of time at once on the map, but if there were a banter channel available I wouldn't mind wandering around.

I like that it gives a very powerful means for mass inviting to spontaneous happenings. This is a good thing, and particularly useful if you're planning a big event in story or want to spread the word about a place or something. The message board supplements this nicely, even if does lack a convenient way to field questions.

It slso covers the fairly rare occurrences of an empty NewHome, as well as the not-so-rare occurrences of an empty Failboat. I honestly don't tend to stay on the Failboat if I can help it, among other reasons, because it's a bit isolated. I can definitely imagine a rookie (or anyone, really) getting stranded there with nobody to story or even banter with under the previous setup. It's a bit of a cycle that feeds on itself, if you're alone when you get there you don't want to stay, then the next person that finds themselves on the boat doesn't have reason to stay either. With a shared banter, at least, folks might wait around a little and chat with everyone as usual, giving some time for people to meet up on the boat and a scene to develop. And if you're unavoidably stranded, at least you're not cut off from everything.

Cons
Clunky to clarify and comment on scenes already in progress. What was once a quick post along the lines of 'My character is reacting because...' or 'Oops I meant' or 'I'm confused' or 'Where is everyone?' seems to have shifted to either distracts (fortunately with multiple recipients, but distracts are easier to miss) or out of character emoting. (This feels like a step in the wrong direction, when the previous banter setup made it (mostly) unnecessary and fairly uncommon. Some things like walls or clarifying who one is speaking to don't stick out so much within Story, but other information does)

Place-specific banter may alleviate this, but with the current all-inclusive chat space, it feels somehow wrong to comment on a scene taking place with a few others when everyone shares the same banter. In some respects it's like there's even less discussion of scenes taking place in banter because so many people won't have a clue about the context and nobody really wants to clutter up the shared space with information that's only relevant to two or three people, like half of a phone conversation.

I think the question of what banter is intended for and how it's used is a very important one, with different answers for different people. Some people focus on it as a tool in the service of story, others chat about their day and still others use it for complete silliness and cuddling. Honestly I don't think any of these are mutually exclusive of the others and used the previous system of banter for a little of everything! I greeted people, hugged, fluttered about and cracked jokes, but if I needed to comment on story I could do that. I could compliment something as particularly funny, or ask a question that would break the flow or take out a chunk of the fourth wall if it were in story. I could tell the people I needed to that I've got to go in advance or simply bid them a good night.

I think I'd like to see a more prominent (but separate) global banter channel, something that will get used more than the old global, but not the only option. My opinion might change when place specific banters are rolled out, but I've shied away from the new system because it's not as useful to do the things I did with the previous one

On auto-GREM'd comments

I'd like to add to the previous points that anyone coming across a scene later (even if only by a minute or two outside the comment's lifespan) will lose the additional humour or context these comments would provide. I like the idea of asides well enough, but feel like that's what localized banter and creative greytext is for. I'd hate to miss something if I had to wall for a minute, had an auto-update failure, or just wasn't there at the right time.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 09 2012 @ 06:53 AM
By: Iriana

Content:

The idea of having more than two channels (Story and Banter) keeps coming up, so while we're at it, why not three: Story, Story Banter, and Banter Banter*?

* less ridiculous name to be determined at future date


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 09 2012 @ 04:47 PM
By: Full+Metal+Lion

Content:

Quote by: Iriana
The idea of having more than two channels (Story and Banter) keeps coming up, so while we're at it, why not three: Story, Story Banter, and Banter Banter*?

Allow me to reply in a flippant manner:



Also, I'm really liking One True Banter, because, as the globe-trotter I am, it's nice to be able to still talk to people while in deserted Outpost.

And as for the Asides... meh. I don't really see why you can't just write, ":'s box is 6 by 6 by 6 inches, and it contains an extremely irritated badger. But you don't know that yet."


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 10 2012 @ 07:09 PM
By: Buddleia

Content:

Originally posted by: MoTD
(update: yes, Places will have their Banters mucked about with more - they'll have per-room Banter, per-house Banter, global Banter or no Banter at all, within a few days)

I love the idea of a house-wide Banter channel. It'll make it much easier to coordinate RP and natter away OOC.

I was wondering, though, would having the option of a per-house Story channel rather than one per room also be useful? I've been thinking about it, and I can't make up my mind.

On one hand, you might want to separate simultaneous roleplayings, say if one person/group is in the kitchen and the other in the library and the other in the garden. Having one channel per room makes it easy to refer only to what's going on here-and-now and regarding that one room/set-of-pages' descriptions. It makes it obvious which room a person is in. And if you've got commentary commands per room, those certainly need to be activated only in the right places.

On the other hand, it can feel fragmented to leave one or two lines of RP in each room as you're going from A to B. ("Buddleia heads through the doorway, and walks along the hallway. Buddleia climbs the stairs to the first floor landing. Buddleia goes into the library. Buddleia opens the door to the study, and finally arrives at her destination." Nobody wants to read that.) It breaks the flow of the scene to move from a full page of chat suddenly into an empty page just because you clicked a navbar link to change the flavour text. (It's certainly difficult to take a log from, especially if you went back and forth. Comparing timestamps makes my brain melt.) And it makes it hard to find people if they're in multi-room places.

I guess what I'd like would be maybe just a few Story channels in my sprawling places, and to have it changeable. In some cases I'd want a house-wide Story for one scene with one person; in others I'd want a separate private channel for in-character-secret things; and if there were lots of people all doing their own thing in their own locations then that'd need a channel each. Granted, going to Master Settings and toggling Story/Banter/none is not hard, but ... huh, maybe a house-wide toggle for "set all rooms to have their own chat" and "set all rooms to use one chat channel" could work? (Though how would that work with things already posted, I wonder?)

So, I dunno. Anyone got any ideas?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 10 2012 @ 10:08 PM
By: Iriana

Content:

Linking everything in a house to one global channel would be--potentially uncomfortable. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of locked or secret rooms? And, er, bedrooms. I can see that getting awkward.

What if you could link up certain rooms into a 'global' Story? For example, the kitchen, living rooms, and library would share a channel, while bedrooms and your Top Secret Study would be excluded. Or you could pick any combination of those. Boy, would that be complicated. Also sort of cool. Also complicated. How would you indicate which rooms are linked and which aren't?

I can't make up my mind either. For now, I'm content with just leaving little hints in my writing to point to where I'm going--it's a bit of a challenge if I'm moving about somewhere like the Bingo Hall, but it's kind of fun to figure out a good way to do it.

Also, that was a serious suggestion: Story, Story Banter, Banter Banter. Not kidding. Any reason why that wouldn't work? (Aside from the fact that it might or might not make mobile and netbook users go blind with frustration. You could always hide one.)


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 10 2012 @ 10:39 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

Quote by: Iriana

Any reason why that wouldn't work?



Very cluttered.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 10 2012 @ 11:38 PM
By: Ada

Content:

Quote by: Buddleia

Originally posted by: MoTD
(update: yes, Places will have their Banters mucked about with more - they'll have per-room Banter, per-house Banter, global Banter or no Banter at all, within a few days)

I love the idea of a house-wide Banter channel. It'll make it much easier to coordinate RP and natter away OOC.

I was wondering, though, would having the option of a per-house Story channel rather than one per room also be useful? I've been thinking about it, and I can't make up my mind.

On one hand, you might want to separate simultaneous roleplayings, say if one person/group is in the kitchen and the other in the library and the other in the garden. Having one channel per room makes it easy to refer only to what's going on here-and-now and regarding that one room/set-of-pages' descriptions. It makes it obvious which room a person is in. And if you've got commentary commands per room, those certainly need to be activated only in the right places.

On the other hand, it can feel fragmented to leave one or two lines of RP in each room as you're going from A to B. ("Buddleia heads through the doorway, and walks along the hallway. Buddleia climbs the stairs to the first floor landing. Buddleia goes into the library. Buddleia opens the door to the study, and finally arrives at her destination." Nobody wants to read that.) It breaks the flow of the scene to move from a full page of chat suddenly into an empty page just because you clicked a navbar link to change the flavour text. (It's certainly difficult to take a log from, especially if you went back and forth. Comparing timestamps makes my brain melt.) And it makes it hard to find people if they're in multi-room places.

I guess what I'd like would be maybe just a few Story channels in my sprawling places, and to have it changeable. In some cases I'd want a house-wide Story for one scene with one person; in others I'd want a separate private channel for in-character-secret things; and if there were lots of people all doing their own thing in their own locations then that'd need a channel each. Granted, going to Master Settings and toggling Story/Banter/none is not hard, but ... huh, maybe a house-wide toggle for "set all rooms to have their own chat" and "set all rooms to use one chat channel" could work? (Though how would that work with things already posted, I wonder?)

So, I dunno. Anyone got any ideas?




Why bother to leave the two lines of rp in each room? Honestly it drives me nuts when people do this. Nobody wants to read that indeed! No reason not to just go straight to your destination. If you want to leave a breadcrumb trail for people, you can just say "Buddleia heads for the study" in the first room and leave people to get there on their own if they want to follow.

But why have a one-place Story channel? If you only want one Story channel for the whole thing, you can just make one room and throw on a lot of pages to describe the place. Seems to me the whole point in having multiple rooms is to have multiple story channels and places for programming.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 11 2012 @ 02:39 AM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Also: if, for some special occasion, you did need a Place-wide chat space... well, your Place is your own sub-universe. You created it. You get to say what the rules are.

You could decree: "For today only, in here... I am turning on my Place-wide Banter, and it will be the new Story."

Just... another option to think about. Supposing you ever needed it.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 11 2012 @ 04:44 AM
By: quinn

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

PHP Formatted Code

---------------------------
|                         |
|                         |
|          STORY          |
|                         |
|                         |
---------------------------
|            |            |
|   LOCAL    |   GLOBAL   |
|            |            |
---------------------------
|                         |
|       NOTICEBOARD       |
|                         |
---------------------------
 


Buddleia, I'm a master at ASCII art, drop a line when you need it. Wink

EDIT: Odd, it seems a link is created when you type GLOBAL in code.



I like this idea, if it was possible without killing the site.

The Asides idea seems pretty awesome too, even if it would initially be confusing for newer members. It's just another thing to add into my Welcome distract!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 11 2012 @ 05:40 AM
By: Harris

Content:

Sonny: I follow every point of yours, and agree, except for why you don't want debate to happen and kept debating anyway, and why you're bringing up people who only want to post once in a thread, and do not want to post again. I really don't- you have totally lost me.

However. I do love everything else you've said, and everything else is overwhelmingly positive, so I am going to assume that you are not only not blaming anybody for anything in this discussion, you are not attacking anybody in any way. It sounded like you were pointing fingers, not peacemaking, BUT. The evidence simply does not support the idea that you have said anything bad here.

It also sounds like you're familiar with trying to run or play a tabletop roleplaying game without shenanigans, and for that, you have my sympathies.

CMJ: I like the autodestruct comments. I think the possible problems that are being cited would be easily dealt with including a description of them in the "Help" link, just like emoting and specials.

Buddleia: I like your idea! I disagree on your reasoning (including a whole new feature so that you can avoid saying "___ then walks in the library" seems wasteful), but I see FUN possibilities for a "turn global story on/off" feature like you have with Banter in your Place. Off the top of my head: realtime Public Address system announcements!


And global Banter is workin' pretty nice. Cherriki Ten roped me into what was GOING to be a one-on-one in Improbable Central, and it turned into a full on Gladiatorial battle between a Cherriki plush doll, and an Ebnezer plush doll, complete with betting, and a full audience- all beacuse we started yakking about it in Banter, and invited maybe five, six people total. Imp Central started at four people, and topped off at eighteen people before it all ended. Mr. Green


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 12 2012 @ 05:09 AM
By: Adder+Moray

Content:

How much work would making 3 channels be. Story, Banter, Global Banter. And then only allowing story and one of the banters to be on screen at any given time.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 12 2012 @ 02:06 PM
By: Ada

Content:

Quote by: Adder+Moray

How much work would making 3 channels be. Story, Banter, Global Banter. And then only allowing story and one of the banters to be on screen at any given time.



That would be what we had before, and no one used global banter then. Presumably it would be a really easy change, because all he would have to do is revert...


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 12 2012 @ 08:18 PM
By: Agelmar

Content:

Quote by: Ada

Quote by: Adder+Moray

How much work would making 3 channels be. Story, Banter, Global Banter. And then only allowing story and one of the banters to be on screen at any given time.



That would be what we had before, and no one used global banter then. Presumably it would be a really easy change, because all he would have to do is revert...



Oh, please no.
I've gotten lots of use out of Global and we've already seen lots more scenes being frequently written. Already we have seen the more out-of-the-way Outposts come to life, and I for my part have had plenty of new interactions with people I'd never gotten to roleplay with, due to whatever constrictions before.

Global is doing a lot of what I'd suspected it would and a couple things more. Now that posttimes are leveled out and the Doubters have actually had a sit-down and thought about how they could use Global, we're really reaping the benefits. From what I've observed.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 13 2012 @ 02:57 AM
By: Adder+Moray

Content:

Quote by: Ada

Quote by: Adder+Moray

How much work would making 3 channels be. Story, Banter, Global Banter. And then only allowing story and one of the banters to be on screen at any given time.



That would be what we had before, and no one used global banter then. Presumably it would be a really easy change, because all he would have to do is revert...



No, I am not suggesting a pop-out window. I am saying make it exactly as it is now, but switch of between outpost or island-wide as the banter next to story, so as to give players who DON'T like mandatory island-wide banter the option of a banter channel that isn't island wide, and so the people who DO like island wide banter can continue to use it.

Quote by: Agelmar

Global is doing a lot of what I'd suspected it would and a couple things more. Now that posttimes are leveled out and the Doubters have actually had a sit-down and thought about how they could use Global, we're really reaping the benefits. From what I've observed.



And I know people who it's driving off. Options don't hurt anyone, there's no reason to hold players who don't like it at gun point and force them to indulge in the system you like if allowing for options isn't difficult.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 13 2012 @ 12:22 PM
By: Omega

Content:

Hey, hey. Just clarifying one point by an example:

You used to sell two kinds of yogurt. Strawberry and Plain. You've decided one day to stop selling Strawberry. When people come to you and ask for Strawberry yogurt and you tell them you don't sell it anymore, you are not forcing them to buy Plain yogurt. You are merely preventing them from buying Strawberry yogurt from your store.

I hope the point is made clear. Thank you!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 13 2012 @ 06:20 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Quote by: Adder+Moray

hold players who don't like it at gun point and force them to indulge in the system you like



Okay, really?

Really?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 13 2012 @ 07:35 PM
By: Adder+Moray

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Quote by: Adder+Moray

hold players who don't like it at gun point and force them to indulge in the system you like



Okay, really?

Really?



It's my go to analogy for "Options? Dear god no!" replies.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 14 2012 @ 12:49 AM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

So this is my understanding of the pros and cons of Global Banter so far. This is taken largely from this thread.

Pros.
- People can chat easily with each other from multiple parts of the Island.
As a result.
- People move around a lot more as they can still chat away with friends. This in turn has led to more activity in the outer outposts - New Pitts, Ace High, and CC404.
Also
- If a scene is happening somewhere, then it's much easier to let people know, and more of a crowd can come and join in.
These seem to me to be big advantages.

Cons.
- Loss of one way of letting people know that you enjoyed their writing somewhere. As has been pointed out, there are other ways of doing this. However I still think that doing this in a public way carries advantages - it helps remind other people to do the same. So overall this is a rather small disadvantage.
- Loss of separate places for people to follow their own modes of enjoyment, be it glomping, chatting or whatever else. This leads onto the next.
- Loss of places for people who are a little nervous to dip their toe in. I refer back to Grey's and Waverly's posts for this. It is easy to feel intimidated by veteran, well established characters. The veteran players don't have to be elitist to be intimidating, just their existence can do this. I refer in particular to Grey's post where she mentions feeling nervous of Eben. Ebenezer is the probably the friendliest, least intimidating person on the Island and I'm sure that he's horrified to think that he's made anybody nervous.
If banter helped provide somewhere where they could feel safer starting out, then that was providing a useful function. Even if they stayed there, going so far as to write whole scenes that could easily appear in Story. If now they can't, then it's a large loss.

That about sums it up as far as I can tell. What have I missed out?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 14 2012 @ 03:49 AM
By: Harris

Content:

Naught, as far as I can tell.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 14 2012 @ 11:32 AM
By: Twosocks+Monkey

Content:

Quote by: Harris

Naught, as far as I can tell.


Agreed! Looks good HM!

How is it we all get so grumpy about this stuff? Razz

-moo


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 14 2012 @ 12:36 PM
By: Mr+Geppetto

Content:

I confess I was one of the Grumblies, at first, not anymore. This stems from my personal way of using banter: both as 1) RP helper and 2) as a place to exchange a few friendly words with the fabulous people that write on the island. Bear with me for a few words on each.

1) As an RP helper (crutch, if you want), I found it extremely useful for popping a quick question regarding, let's say, a character's attributes that may not be obvious, to me, at least, from description and RP only (it happens!). It's also useful for letting your scene partners know if you're going to be away, for how long, which info you can't impart by simply typing /afk. Let's say you are doing a scene in which the presence of a certain character is crucial (and his/her input, too). It that particular character's writer has to go do RL stuff for 10-15mins, the scene can be merely delayed, if the writer is going to be away for more than that, perhaps for the day, the scene will have to be aborted or altered a lot, as to fit that character's lack of response. And this is just an example. Using distractions for that, I grant you, is possible, though not terribly practical. Using another form of external instant messaging, ditto.

2) the casual chitchat is by no means necessary, or useful but merely pleasant and fun. I've been part in quite a few sparkling, witty and hilarious banter conversations, both with long time friends and random comparative strangers, on topics ranging wildly from linguistics, etiology or music theory, to rains of colorful confetti-like mice and bra cup sizes. Ranting, most of it, pointless, but, as I said, sometimes hilarious. Sometimes, true, there was a bit too much glomping for my taste, drowning everything else, but I'm not young anymore (alas), and that might be to blame for my reticence.

Now, with the new system:

1) I kind of still can do it, if it is not extremely busy around, but it is harder to do. Not impossible, even when it's busy, it's still doable: let's say I have to take a phonecall. I write that I'll be back soon, then hit /afk. The other players in the scene will see that I'm AFK, and if it's important to them, they can scroll back a bit and see if I left a time estimate in banter, even if it's been swamped. If it's a question to a certain character, a distraction can do, not everything has to be lighting fast, it's not trading on the stock market, it's RP, done for fun and silliness.

2) - Less probable, much less probable, while still not impossible.

These are, for me, the main disadvantages.

On the other hand, there are the advantages, which Hairy Mary summed up very neatly. Just the other day, for instance, I was very happy I got to play with Mara for a bit, thing that wouldn't have happened, but for the Global Banter, and that I had hoped for since a chance encounter in NewHome, featuring a bottle of stolen booze and a bunch of wet and pissed off ammo cats.



----------------
(Read here to avoid longwinded rant)

So: verdict, in my opinion: minor inconveniences for good results, I'd say overall a Good Thing.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 14 2012 @ 12:44 PM
By: TeddybearofDeath

Content:

I know my post isn't so much 'feedback' as questions, but I'm not sure where else to ask.

Do we know yet if we're planning to keep this function for good? It feels like it's been instated for good, and most are just waiting for the last of the complainers to conform or leave.

Personally, I fried my hand in hot oil Sunday morning and have barely logged in for the last 4 days or so. In my heart, I miss my friends and stories, but I was also suprised to find my blood pressure rising when I thought about it, and the thought, I can't deal with that banter, running through my head. I was shocked to realize I was half looking forward to coming back, and half dreading the stress and discomfort. Over a game I used to love and feel happier playing!

I have social anxiety and frankly, there's a lot of people on the site I don't see eye to eye with and can't tolerate being around. It used to be simple to deal with, since like real life, you didn't have to be where the other person was! No conflict, no sore feelings, no sweat, everyone enjoys their own lives.

Now if I see someone online I'm uncomfortable around or don't think I can deal with, I don't want to log in at all. "What if he's in banter? That means I can't participate because I don't want to interact with him and his friends. Why should I be excluded? Because I didn't get here first, and there's no privacy now, and I don't have the will to cope with the stress."

On a side note of actual on-topic, I was suprised to see how many people were upset banter is not already used EXCLUSIVELY for rp coordination. Crazy thought here, I realize this isn't Facebook, but it is still a socially-geared website. I get not everyone wants to hear everyone's drama - again, probably easier to avoid when you could leave the area and people behind to talk somewhere lighter - but still. I've had days where I've been quaking with an anxiety attack and needed to feel not alone, and the folks in Newhome talked me down gently so I could sleep and cope. I am so thankful for that. And they weren't all people I previously knew to private message, gtalk if I had it, etc. No one I knew was around, and kind strangers came through for me, making new friendships!

Going a little further with this, I've never had a real life roleplay group to play D&D with or any tabletops. But I have to ask those who do; do you ONLY 100% talk about the game while you're there? Is it like the stereotypes on TV where you completely lose sight and stop acknowledging reality to 'become' a character? Or do you talk to your friends, joke around, play a game controlling a character while socializing? I much prefer the latter, but perhaps this is some part of roleplay culture I'm misunderstanding? Are you SUPPOSED to take the game too seriously?

I really think there should just be attempts to find a happy medium. I don't think we should have our emo high school drama spilling out all over banter, but I also don't think we should be frowned on for talking about life, connecting with new people who can relate and making friends!

Again, take with a grain of salt from me. No one ever agrees with my points, making me some kind of black sheep. And I don't plan to stay on with new global banter whether it becomes story-related-only or remains casual. I just can't tolerate what feels like being crowded in a party room with a billion different people and conversations I want no part of. I enjoy my privacy too much to find comfort or happiness here anymore. And after a year and a half of loving this website and it being the one thing I look forward to when I wake up each day, I'm sad. I'm losing one of the last things I really enjoyed, and I feel empty. All for jamming all the banters together for reasons I do not understand to begin with. I'm real sad.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 14 2012 @ 04:44 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

Yup, it looks like this is gonna be permanent from now.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 14 2012 @ 08:19 PM
By: Ada

Content:

Teddybear, does it help to know that we have Place banters separate now? So you can go to your Place or a clan hall or whatever you like, and hang out with your friends there privately. Yes, it's not the same as outpost banter - but I think it may actually work better for your purposes? Someone you don't like or don't want to be near could be watching the outpost banter you feel is safe, but you're totally in control if it's in a Place. You can have complete privacy there, and invite your friends over via distract or messaging.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 15 2012 @ 11:22 AM
By: TeddybearofDeath

Content:

Quote by: Ada

Teddybear, does it help to know that we have Place banters separate now? So you can go to your Place or a clan hall or whatever you like, and hang out with your friends there privately. Yes, it's not the same as outpost banter - but I think it may actually work better for your purposes? Someone you don't like or don't want to be near could be watching the outpost banter you feel is safe, but you're totally in control if it's in a Place. You can have complete privacy there, and invite your friends over via distract or messaging.



Thanks for trying Ada, I appriciate that someone's concerned about people feeling alienated from the site. CMJ confirmed my thoughts though, there's no place for me on this website anymore. Something I used to enjoy now makes me sick and sad and stressed.

I know I missed another thread somewhere, but I still don't comprehend why this happened. Who complained about perfectly good old banter? Or was it just 'Here's something not broken, let's take it apart and ruin it anyway!'? I don't understand how things work in the island's management... All I know is that my opinion doesn't and never has mattered. I'm not even remotely a part of the community.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 15 2012 @ 03:03 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: TeddybearofDeath

Quote by: Ada

Teddybear, does it help to know that we have Place banters separate now? So you can go to your Place or a clan hall or whatever you like, and hang out with your friends there privately. Yes, it's not the same as outpost banter - but I think it may actually work better for your purposes? Someone you don't like or don't want to be near could be watching the outpost banter you feel is safe, but you're totally in control if it's in a Place. You can have complete privacy there, and invite your friends over via distract or messaging.



Thanks for trying Ada, I appreciate that someone's concerned about people feeling alienated from the site. CMJ confirmed my thoughts though, there's no place for me on this website anymore. Something I used to enjoy now makes me sick and sad and stressed.

I know I missed another thread somewhere, but I still don't comprehend why this happened. Who complained about perfectly good old banter? Or was it just 'Here's something not broken, let's take it apart and ruin it anyway!'? I don't understand how things work in the island's management... All I know is that my opinion doesn't and never has mattered. I'm not even remotely a part of the community.

I'm going to say this, not just for you, Teddybear, but for anyone who's feeling stressed by the merged Banter:

The Island changes. The Island always changes. That is its nature. Usually the changes turn out to be very much for the better. Anyone who knows me knows that there have been a few times when I have been very sad about some of them, but it isn't my game, it's CMJ's. He listens to all his players, including you -- and me! In the end, though, he has to make an executive decision. It's not a democracy, it can't be; it's his personal creation. There are factors that neither of us can see.

Now it's your decision. You get to make it each time you log in, or don't. Ask yourself -- are the friends you have here, the values you've found here, the kinds of fun you can still have here... are they worth it to you, or not?

Sometimes, for some people, the answer is no. That's all right. Sometimes, the answer turns out to be no for a while, then they come back after a period spent doing other things and find they can have fun here again. When that happens, their friends cheer and do happy dances. And sometimes...

Sometimes, the value they've found here leads them to take a chance, try something new, and find out there are benefits after all, benefits they hadn't imagined.

I'm not going to try to tell you what your choice should be. Whatever you pick, though, don't feel so alone. You are a part of the community.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 15 2012 @ 03:27 PM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: TeddybearofDeath

Quote by: Ada

Teddybear, does it help to know that we have Place banters separate now? So you can go to your Place or a clan hall or whatever you like, and hang out with your friends there privately. Yes, it's not the same as outpost banter - but I think it may actually work better for your purposes? Someone you don't like or don't want to be near could be watching the outpost banter you feel is safe, but you're totally in control if it's in a Place. You can have complete privacy there, and invite your friends over via distract or messaging.



Thanks for trying Ada, I appriciate that someone's concerned about people feeling alienated from the site. CMJ confirmed my thoughts though, there's no place for me on this website anymore. Something I used to enjoy now makes me sick and sad and stressed.

I know I missed another thread somewhere, but I still don't comprehend why this happened. Who complained about perfectly good old banter? Or was it just 'Here's something not broken, let's take it apart and ruin it anyway!'? I don't understand how things work in the island's management... All I know is that my opinion doesn't and never has mattered. I'm not even remotely a part of the community.



You're taking this decision so much more personally than it is. Your opinion matters, but it's not the only one. The last two (three?) weeks have been spent with lots of people voicing their icy hatred of the new Global Banter, then after a week (or two?) to warm up, many of them see the new benefits of the system and either accept that it's not so bad, or that they might even prefer it. You're just a little late to the thread (again, not that your feedback doesn't matter), because it seems that the majority of opinions turned around sufficiently to keep it in.

I thought your points about the "crowded in a party" analogy were really good, since though an extrovert's natural response is "just put yourself out there and make a ton of new friends", an introvert like yourself (as you described) will find that cripplingly unfun. Most of us know the pleasures of anonymity or undetectability when you just don't feel like dealing with certain people. I really get what you're saying, and I would be swayed quite a bit by more similar arguments by other people who feel that way.

But unless those other people actually do voice the same complaints now as you did, do you think only your dissent should be enough to stop many other from getting what they perceive to be benefits? From your perspective, you're making a good argument. From the developer's perspective, X amount of people are unhappy with the new system, and >X people are happy with the new system, and therefore he will probably use the new system.

Convince us, the rest of the populace, to support your point, and if the numbers add up, that might change CMJ's mind.

Although, as said before by CMJ himself, it's pretty much obvious which way this issue is going to swing already.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 15 2012 @ 04:08 PM
By: Full+Metal+Lion

Content:

I find the concept of trying to get introverts to speak an amusingly sisyphean task. You'd probably have to use a MoTD poll.

Also, I don't think One True Banter (which is what I'll call this new Banter for ever and ever, no matter how many people don't understand me) is a permanent solution. I think this for one reason: more people will join the Island. I hypothesize that, eventually, there will be Too Many People, and Something will have to be Done. What will it be? I dunno. Maybe it'll be switching back to the old system. Maybe it'll be putting Global Banter back in, while keeping One True Banter. Maybe I'm and nothing horrible will ever happen. But that's the future. For now, pending any epiphanies about how despicable it is, I'm enjoying this experiment-gone-right.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 15 2012 @ 08:45 PM
By: Cicero

Content:

If the One True Banter is now permanent, I still think icons denoting which outpost the speaker is occupying would be helpful.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 15 2012 @ 09:04 PM
By: Collin-Vee

Content:

Quote by: CavemanJoe

Yup, it looks like this is gonna be permanent from now.




Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 15 2012 @ 10:35 PM
By: Buddleia

Content:

This new Global Banter, in essence, reminds me of Facebook or Twitter.

If you like using it, it's great. It lets you natter with your friends and share stuff and meet people and learn things and ask/answer questions and arrange things and have fun - it's fleeting and instant, there's always someone there to chat with, and you can do whatever you like.

If you don't like it, then ... you can either abstain, becoming a Weirdo Antisocial Loner to all the people who do like it, and missing out on all the socialising and news and organising of parties that it seems everyone else is enjoying so much. Or, you can force yourself to look at it, and be continually wearied by the pace of the party and puzzled by the appeal, occasionally finding some small thing which seems worth reading and/or interacting with, but mostly wishing everyone else wasn't so keen on it (and would get off your lawn and turn their rackety music off, the damn kids).

If it isn't your thing, then no, of course you aren't being forced at gunpoint to buy the strawberry yoghurt. But if that's the only place you can get yoghurt, and if almost everyone else you wish to hear from and interact with is using yoghurt as their primary means of instant non-private communication (ok yes the mixed metaphor breaks down rather a lot), and if you wish to use something with similar properties to yoghurt .... well, a curry just ain't the same with strawberry yoghurt or sour cream instead of a nice plain yoghurt for your cucumber-and-mint raita.


I'd still be in favour of a Local Banter channel for the people who want to use that and a Global Banter channel for the people who want to use that.


@Hairy Mary: an excellent summary, good sir. I would also suggest adding that loss of local Banter channels has also made it harder to not just say you liked someone's roleplay after the fact, but also to coordinate or chat with people during the scene, without it getting lost amoung all the other things going on in GB.

@TeddyBear: your posts make me sad. I have every sympathy - I do feel rather the same about many points - but nothing constructive to add.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 15 2012 @ 11:40 PM
By: Trowa

Content:

Okay, one thing I have noticed, and not heard mentioned here as a great positive:

Story and Banter channels don't swap places anymore. I haven't fiddled with the Place Banters yet, but it's certainly better in Outposts and the Failboat.

I mean, at least, I haven't seen it. Has anyone else?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 01:07 AM
By: Svergon

Content:

There are times I'd rather have it off, but don't because someone might try to communicate something story related in the globanter. I agree wholeheartedly with Buddleia's post.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 02:01 AM
By: Iriana

Content:

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Quote by: TeddybearofDeath

Quote by: Ada

Teddybear, does it help to know that we have Place banters separate now? So you can go to your Place or a clan hall or whatever you like, and hang out with your friends there privately. Yes, it's not the same as outpost banter - but I think it may actually work better for your purposes? Someone you don't like or don't want to be near could be watching the outpost banter you feel is safe, but you're totally in control if it's in a Place. You can have complete privacy there, and invite your friends over via distract or messaging.



Thanks for trying Ada, I appriciate that someone's concerned about people feeling alienated from the site. CMJ confirmed my thoughts though, there's no place for me on this website anymore. Something I used to enjoy now makes me sick and sad and stressed.

I know I missed another thread somewhere, but I still don't comprehend why this happened. Who complained about perfectly good old banter? Or was it just 'Here's something not broken, let's take it apart and ruin it anyway!'? I don't understand how things work in the island's management... All I know is that my opinion doesn't and never has mattered. I'm not even remotely a part of the community.



You're taking this decision so much more personally than it is. Your opinion matters, but it's not the only one. The last two (three?) weeks have been spent with lots of people voicing their icy hatred of the new Global Banter, then after a week (or two?) to warm up, many of them see the new benefits of the system and either accept that it's not so bad, or that they might even prefer it. You're just a little late to the thread (again, not that your feedback doesn't matter), because it seems that the majority of opinions turned around sufficiently to keep it in.

I thought your points about the "crowded in a party" analogy were really good, since though an extrovert's natural response is "just put yourself out there and make a ton of new friends", an introvert like yourself (as you described) will find that cripplingly unfun. Most of us know the pleasures of anonymity or undetectability when you just don't feel like dealing with certain people. I really get what you're saying, and I would be swayed quite a bit by more similar arguments by other people who feel that way.

But unless those other people actually do voice the same complaints now as you did, do you think only your dissent should be enough to stop many other from getting what they perceive to be benefits? From your perspective, you're making a good argument. From the developer's perspective, X amount of people are unhappy with the new system, and >X people are happy with the new system, and therefore he will probably use the new system.

Convince us, the rest of the populace, to support your point, and if the numbers add up, that might change CMJ's mind.

Although, as said before by CMJ himself, it's pretty much obvious which way this issue is going to swing already.


I don't think it's fair to say that Teddybear is taking it too personally. A change will always affect people, and people are allowed to feel affected. Teddybear, I suppose what I'd ask you to do is recognize the way you feel, but not let it make you feel like CMJ or everyone who likes the new Banter are doing it as a personal attack against you, or because they don't care about you. They do! We are a community, and you're part of it. It's just that decisions that affect a whole community can't be made based on the feelings of a few people, sad to say. :c

Fred, I think you're operating from the wrong definitions of introvert and extrovert. There are social introverts and nonsocial extroverts; for example, I'm strongly introverted, but I've learned to not mind just leaping in and making new friends. But that tires me out, whereas being by myself or with only a few people helps me recharge. I'm pretty sure that all had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, so, er, back on track.

I've reached a point where it doesn't matter to me which way it swings now, even though I quite like the Global Banter. I can see the benefits and drawbacks of both ways, and I know we're going to end up adapting to either one just fine. I've fiddled with the Places Banter, and I agree with Ada that it goes a long way towards making people feel like they have a space to just talk to their friends if they want to. The front room of my Place is Global Banter, so I can tune in to what's going on, and the other rooms are Place-specific or Local. It's good to have options.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 02:53 AM
By: Escemfer

Content:

Just weighing in with an opinion here on a few people's points. Do take it, as with every other opinion, with a grain of salt. Big Grin

I don't really understand the benefit in posting an appreciative note in a quiet outpost's Banter when you've seen a scene you like. I didn't realize people even relied on such things, because I've seen it so rarely, and maybe only once in response to a scene I participated in. Further, I almost never return to the "scene of the crime," as it were. I feel like a Distraction, though it takes maybe an extra minute's time, is a lot more personal, heartfelt, and likely to be seen by the person you're praising. When I see something exceptionally entertaining, I drop the participants a short Distraction. --Of course, this is not to say that leaving messages in Banter has/had no value, just that it never really benefit me in the way I personally roleplay or socialize.

As for scene coordination, I've always found it difficult to do that via Banter in a busy outpost, and in my experience (so far!) Global Banter is no faster than the busy outposts ever were. Possible, yeah, but difficult. Less convenient than coordinating through GTalk, more convenient than coordinating through Distractions. On the flip side, when roleplaying in empty or slow-moving outposts, I never needed to coordinate that way because I was usually playing a (semi-not-very)pre-planned scene with people I was already acquainted with through Distractions or GTalk. So in that case, it was far easier to ask a brief question or make a quick note via Distraction or chat client than to try to coordinate any bit of scene in Banter. I found this especially true of plot-driven group scenes (for I've often been pulled into a group chat). So I don't feel that any Story-related functionality has been lost with the changeover to Global Banter.

On the hot topic of "socializing," I don't have much of interest to say. (this actually turned into a very rambly paragraph, sorry) I'm very much an introvert; socializing with others is very exhausting. I'm also fairly shy and self-conscious in a group. I appreciate Global Banter as a tool that allows me to pop in and say a few things to the public at large, if I so desire, and then disappear again without being missed. The whole Island is in the same chat room, it seems, so it's really easy to say "Hi SoAndSo!" or participate in any small snippet of conversation that interests me without traversing the whole Island to do it, or committing myself to a conversation. I also don't find it distracting or distressing to have the whole Island jabbering at the bottom of the page, because I don't really expect to see anything important in there. When I'm doing a scene, I'll skim the chatspace every couple of minutes for the names of anyone I'm writing with, and then skim the comments they made to see if it's anything relevant to what I'm doing (or need to do). For the most part, I assume that Banter is just unimportant sillyness, as it always seemed to be in the busy outposts anyway.

EDIT for clarity: I personally use Banter and Story stacked, one atop the other. I find it far more readable and far less distracting then the cramped columns when they're set one next to the other. If you find Global Banter distracting you frequently, this might be something to try?

On the dire, vital topic of "glomping": I don't care for it, personally. I roll my eyes at it. But it causes me no intense pain when people are doing that, as I can very easily ignore it!

And on the subject of people you can't tolerate being around, my only advice is from personal experience. Yes, there have been a few people I've been less than enamored with. I think everyone's had this experience, no? But I've never found myself driven out of a conversation by the mere presence of such a person. In fact, I'm almost always able to either ignore them entirely, or be neutrally polite to them (as I am with many people, whether or not I dislike them!) Being part of a community is a team effort. If I want to be part of it, I have to engage with others. And if I don't want to be snarked at or bullied, I have to be polite to others. If you're not giving whoever-it-is any reason to engage negatively with you, then chances are, they won't. And if you feel like they're personally harassing you, you can always ask a neutral moderator for help. The mere chance of being in the same "room" with someone you don't like should never be a reason to give up and leave entirely. There's always a way to get along with people you don't personally like.

TL;DR: I think new Banter is pretty fun and neat. I have no real issues with it. However, I wouldn't be heartbroken if it was rolled back, either, because I just honestly don't have a single reason to get worked up about what Banter system we might or might not be using.

Disclaimer: Since it seems that this has been a season of frustration, Opinions, and miscommunication, I just want to make my intent clear: these many, many boring words are just my opinion, based on personal experience, and by no means do I expect everyone to share my experience. Everyone's opinion is valid, my friends, yours and mine, even if we disagree. Wink


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 03:03 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Iriana

I don't think it's fair to say that Teddybear is taking it too personally. A change will always affect people, and people are allowed to feel affected. Teddybear, I suppose what I'd ask you to do is recognize the way you feel, but not let it make you feel like CMJ or everyone who likes the new Banter are doing it as a personal attack against you, or because they don't care about you.


That is what I meant by "taking it too personally".

Quote by: Iriana

Fred, I think you're operating from the wrong definitions of introvert and extrovert. There are social introverts and nonsocial extroverts; for example, I'm strongly introverted, but I've learned to not mind just leaping in and making new friends. But that tires me out, whereas being by myself or with only a few people helps me recharge.


Sure, I accept that there are much more specific nuances to the concepts of introvert and extrovert than the way I used the terms. All I was trying to say is that I'm not dismissing Teddybear's claims just because he or she is daunted by the prospect of having to deal with lots of people, which is a concept many social butterflies often do not understand at all.

Quote by: Buddleia

If you don't like it, then ... you can either abstain, becoming a Weirdo Antisocial Loner to all the people who do like it, and missing out on all the socialising and news and organising of parties that it seems everyone else is enjoying so much.


That seems a bit hyperbolic to me. I don't expect people to view GB-Abstainers as Weirdo Antisocial Loners, but as people who just don't really care for it. Global Banter seems primarily to be an OOC Chatroom, not the party-organization tool (clan mail) or news (MotD/Clan Mail/Noticeboard/Story?).

Quote by: Buddleia

yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt


You brits are the worst.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 05:07 AM
By: Raidur

Content:

I'm still formulating an opinion, but I do see one thing that'd be handy in this global banter.. a color that indicated that someone is in either the same outpost as you, or a color that says they are in a different outpost. Yes, I know I can go to the contestants list to see where people are at, but it'd be nice to see.. hey, this person is in the same outpost, I should try RP'ing. Or something of the sort.

-Raidur, et al.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 06:21 AM
By: Escemfer

Content:

Quote by: Raidur

I'm still formulating an opinion, but I do see one thing that'd be handy in this global banter.. a color that indicated that someone is in either the same outpost as you, or a color that says they are in a different outpost. Yes, I know I can go to the contestants list to see where people are at, but it'd be nice to see.. hey, this person is in the same outpost, I should try RP'ing. Or something of the sort.

-Raidur, et al.



Or, alternatively, if some folks are going "LOL, confetti-pooping midgets, best party ever" you can see what outpost the best party ever is in, and then crash it!

Outpost indicators of any kind would be really, really awesome.

(forgot I wanted to say something about this idea, since I posted such a big long novel about other stuff. thanks for reminding me, raidur!)


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 12:24 PM
By: TeddybearofDeath

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

...but it isn't my game, it's CMJ's. He listens to all his players, including you -- and me! In the end, though, he has to make an executive decision.



As someone who always seems to be on the opposite side fo issues and never had any positive feedback or response from CMJ, it doesn't feel like he listens. I know he does, but it's so frustrating to always feel like what's important to you is just dismissed out of hand, because you're not part of the crowd the king sides with going into the conversation. I sound upset because I'm frustrated, as usual.


Quote by: Count+Sessine

It's not a democracy, it can't be; it's his personal creation. There are factors that neither of us can see.



Which is why the countless other times things have upset me, I've tried to grin and bear it. You're right, of course you're right. But this isn't the first one, so it's getting tougher to just bite my tongue and go on as usual. It's more of a last straw situation.

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Now it's your decision. You get to make it each time you log in, or don't. Ask yourself -- are the friends you have here, the values you've found here, the kinds of fun you can still have here... are they worth it to you, or not?

Sometimes, for some people, the answer is no. That's all right. Sometimes, the answer turns out to be no for a while, then they come back after a period spent doing other things and find they can have fun here again. When that happens, their friends cheer and do happy dances. And sometimes...

Sometimes, the value they've found here leads them to take a chance, try something new, and find out there are benefits after all, benefits they hadn't imagined.

I'm not going to try to tell you what your choice should be. Whatever you pick, though, don't feel so alone. You are a part of the community.



This website literally has been all I've looked forward to each day since I found it. That's one of the reasons I'm taking this change and the decision to finally leave so hard! There are a few people here who I wished had Enquierer accounts or used them, that are my only friends in the world. And good ones at that! ones I've already been missing since I got a second degree grease burn on my hand and haven't been able to type or story quickly or correctly for the past week. But again, my point, everytime I think of returning to them, a bit sinks in my stomach of sadness. We can't joke and chat and enjoy our privacy and creativity anymore without trying to keep track of distractions, or having everyone on the entire website eavesdropping, chiming in, knowing our jokes... I'm just not that bold in front of people. I like my privacy. Banter made me happy. Now all those feelings are reversed.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred


You're taking this decision so much more personally than it is. Your opinion matters, but it's not the only one. The last two (three?) weeks have been spent with lots of people voicing their icy hatred of the new Global Banter, then after a week (or two?) to warm up, many of them see the new benefits of the system and either accept that it's not so bad, or that they might even prefer it. You're just a little late to the thread (again, not that your feedback doesn't matter), because it seems that the majority of opinions turned around sufficiently to keep it in.



I admit, I kind of TL;DR this thread past the first and last pages. Have that many people really said they hated it, then changed their tune? How suprising and disturbing.

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

I thought your points about the "crowded in a party" analogy were really good, since though an extrovert's natural response is "just put yourself out there and make a ton of new friends", an introvert like yourself (as you described) will find that cripplingly unfun. Most of us know the pleasures of anonymity or undetectability when you just don't feel like dealing with certain people. I really get what you're saying, and I would be swayed quite a bit by more similar arguments by other people who feel that way.



Ya see, that's the problem with people who're uncomfortable blabbing in front of hoards they don't know or who certainly don't agree with them. They don't have the balls to run up to your face and disagree!

The day banter changed there was someone so terrified he could hardly post. He saw me raising loud concerns and distracted me to ask me to put his two cents in because he was too overwhemled and frightened to speak 90% of the time. I have another friend with so much anxiety and discomfort, I haven't seen him log in since the change. I can't even talk to him, let alone get him to post here. I'm the voice of the nervous here!

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Although, as said before by CMJ himself, it's pretty much obvious which way this issue is going to swing already.



Which of course makes my breath now and always wasted, but I feel like at least defending and fleshing out my point to those sympathetic enough to listen and reply, anyway. My island time is gone, it's not like I have anywhere else to be!

Quote by: Full+Metal+Lion

I find the concept of trying to get introverts to speak an amusingly sisyphean task. You'd probably have to use a MoTD poll.



Presented without comment because, yes. This lion speaks truth.

Quote by: Buddleia

This new Global Banter, in essence, reminds me of Facebook or Twitter.



Which is why I don't use those websites! Island was always better and more comfortable. I don't like Facebook and Twitter, or I'd probably be there instead of here! All of my do not want!

Quote by: Buddleia

If you don't like it, then ... you can either abstain, becoming a Weirdo Antisocial Loner to all the people who do like it, and missing out on all the socialising and news and organising of parties that it seems everyone else is enjoying so much.



Wooooow. 'You don't want to conform to the crowd and throw yourself into awkward annonymous things that make you uncomfortable! You feel and act different from me and my friends do so you're a FREAK and I'm going to judge and label you for it! Hahahaha!' I don't think I was even this judged in high school. Congratulations for leaving me at a loss. I'm so shocked and caught off guard I can't even form a reply that has any substance. Just wow.

Quote by: Buddleia

If it isn't your thing, then no, of course you aren't being forced at gunpoint to buy the strawberry yoghurt. But if that's the only place you can get yoghurt, and if almost everyone else you wish to hear from and interact with is using yoghurt as their primary means of instant non-private communication (ok yes the mixed metaphor breaks down rather a lot), and if you wish to use something with similar properties to yoghurt .... well, a curry just ain't the same with strawberry yoghurt or sour cream instead of a nice plain yoghurt for your cucumber-and-mint raita.



.......

I was going to say something, but I got so confused halfway through, I can't figure out if I agree or not anymore. Uhm?

Quote by: Buddleia

I'd still be in favour of a Local Banter channel for the people who want to use that and a Global Banter channel for the people who want to use that.



This is part of why I'm so upset. Global banter always existed. The problem being, NOBODY KNEW THAT. There was no mention in any of the guides/help/anywhere/etc. I only found it by either random snooping or Omega, I can't remember which. And I approved of it! So my point here is, instead of throwing cold water on everyone by forcing them to use global instead of local, why couldn't we make an effort to inform more people of global still in the second tab? Move the link closer to the other banter, make note of it in new player guides, something. I feel like we've gone about this wrong!

Quote by: Iriana

Teddybear, I suppose what I'd ask you to do is recognize the way you feel, but not let it make you feel like CMJ or everyone who likes the new Banter are doing it as a personal attack against you, or because they don't care about you. They do!



I don't feel like anyone's attacking me, and that's not what I meant. I'm just so tired of feeling like everything I feel strongly about gets dismissed with little to no consideration. These replies I've gotten since my last post have made me not feel as alienated at least. Sadly, they still hold no barring on the final decision, so... Still frustrating.


...Anyway. Sorry about massively masive long page-stretching post. Just a lot of relavent things I wanted to reply to. Lots of good people with good points, and point I should probably claify of my own words.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 01:13 PM
By: Buddleia

Content:

Quote by: TeddybearofDeath

Quote by: Buddleia

If you don't like it, then ... you can either abstain, becoming a Weirdo Antisocial Loner to all the people who do like it, and missing out on all the socialising and news and organising of parties that it seems everyone else is enjoying so much.


Wooooow. 'You don't want to conform to the crowd and throw yourself into awkward annonymous things that make you uncomfortable! You feel and act different from me and my friends do so you're a FREAK and I'm going to judge and label you for it! Hahahaha!' I don't think I was even this judged in high school. Congratulations for leaving me at a loss. I'm so shocked and caught off guard I can't even form a reply that has any substance. Just wow.


I'm sorry if my post made you feel judged and shocked. But it is not intended as labelling or attacking you. It is hyperbole for how I was feeling from my not enjoying Global Banter. Not aimed at you. Just as you feel unhappy and uncomfortable about New Global Banter, so do I and this was my attempt at explaining how I feel.


However.

If I never open Global Banter, I would never know about CMJ taking straw polls about what to work on next, or his other game-changing discussions and announcements.
If I never open Global Banter, I would not have known to make a bug report about an exploit which is effectively stealing money from the game because people had not realised that their actions were not supposed to be possible.
If I never open Global Banter, I would not know when people are talking about interesting scenes and events in progress or about to start, or asking or telling me things relevant to my current roleplay, or whatever else.
If I never open Global Banter, I miss out on a lot of socialising.

And still, I do not like the new Global Banter. It is too fast, too busy, too full of people I don't know all happily talking about things I'm not interested in or involved with. I don't like awkward anonymous-but-overly-public things that make me uncomfortable, either! But it feels to me as if I have to chose between either missing out on all the good things, or on having to wade through a huge amount of things which I am not interested in.

No, I'm not saying that they are wrong to be using it that way (or anyone else is wrong to be using whatever else to be chatting and hugging and talking about their real-life day and scene-coordinating and everything else). If it makes them happy, that's great, whatever my opinions and preferences.

I'm definitely not saying that I think that anyone is a Weirdo Antisocial Loner for not wanting to use Global Banter or for not conforming to my opinions and preferences.

I'm saying that I do not like the New Global Banter but that if I abstain from reading it then I am missing out and feeling socially excluded.



Quote by: Buddleia


If it isn't your thing, then no, of course you aren't being forced at gunpoint to buy the strawberry yoghurt. But if that's the only place you can get yoghurt, and if almost everyone else you wish to hear from and interact with is using yoghurt as their primary means of instant non-private communication (ok yes the mixed metaphor breaks down rather a lot), and if you wish to use something with similar properties to yoghurt .... well, a curry just ain't the same with strawberry yoghurt or sour cream instead of a nice plain yoghurt for your cucumber-and-mint raita.

.......

I was going to say something, but I got so confused halfway through, I can't figure out if I agree or not anymore. Uhm?

I'm mixing metaphors from earlier in the thread:

Quote by: Agelmar
Global is doing a lot of what I'd suspected it would and a couple things more. Now that posttimes are leveled out and the Doubters have actually had a sit-down and thought about how they could use Global, we're really reaping the benefits. From what I've observed.
Quote by: Adder Moray
And I know people who it's driving off. Options don't hurt anyone, there's no reason to hold players who don't like it at gun point and force them to indulge in the system you like if allowing for options isn't difficult.
Quote by: CavemanJoe
Okay, really?

Really?
Quote by: Adder Moray
It's my go to analogy for "Options? Dear god no!" replies.
Quote by: Omega

Hey, hey. Just clarifying one point by an example:

You used to sell two kinds of yogurt. Strawberry and Plain. You've decided one day to stop selling Strawberry. When people come to you and ask for Strawberry yogurt and you tell them you don't sell it anymore, you are not forcing them to buy Plain yogurt. You are merely preventing them from buying Strawberry yogurt from your store.

I hope the point is made clear. Thank you!


In summary: no, we are not being forced to participate in New Global Banter. But for the people who did like to use Local Banter, and now find that New Global Banter is not a good substitute, it is not a nice change. If you used to have options A, B or C, and you only find Option A suitable for your purpose, then having to chose from Options B or C is disappointing.



This is part of why I'm so upset. Global banter always existed. The problem being, NOBODY KNEW THAT. There was no mention in any of the guides/help/anywhere/etc. I only found it by either random snooping or Omega, I can't remember which. And I approved of it! So my point here is, instead of throwing cold water on everyone by forcing them to use global instead of local, why couldn't we make an effort to inform more people of global still in the second tab? Move the link closer to the other banter, make note of it in new player guides, something. I feel like we've gone about this wrong!

This is one of the things which makes me unhappy, too. A lot of things on Improbable Island are not well documented or explained. I was playing for more than a year before the FAQ was updated to the current helpful version; the old one basically insulted you for not knowing everything that you'd gone in there to find out, and had lots of irrelevant, wrong and out-of-date information.

(Yes, I know, joy of discovery and all that, don't want to make it too easy, got to keep to the Wiki of Lies ethos, etc etc. But for goodness sake, surely it was not right to give a just-started-playing-the-game rookie the impression that clans exist solely to sneer at people who have not heard of their "exploits"? I read it in the FAQ when I'd just started playing, I thought it was true!)


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 03:18 PM
By: jenkins

Content:

Don't feel bad, alot of people don't use Global. And I mean ALOT.

On average, there's about 40-90 people on at any given time, right?* But h0w many people are using Banter at any given time? Like, 3-6 people. Once you start hitting 7 or 8 people, you've got posts disapearing in less than 2 minutes, so people stop using it, and it'll go back down. But that's 3-6, out of the 40-90 people all on the island. That's about 5-10% of the island that's willing to go onto Global.
Now, I have no idea how many people used Banter regularly before the change, but I'm pretty damn sure it was more than 10%. There's probably more people using Banter, now the Places Banter has been installed, but that's out of sheer desire not to use Global. I've heard many people complain about Global in Global, but few of those who do have made posts in this thread, mostly because...

Ya see, that's the problem with people who're uncomfortable blabbing in front of hoards they don't know or who certainly don't agree with them. They don't have the balls to run up to your face and disagree!


Leaving them to decide to leave, or give up Banter completely. Which I just don't think is right. It's CMJ's decision, but damn if I don't want to influence him to change his mind.





*Well, maybe like 25 if the island's really empty, but on average and all that


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 06:49 PM
By: Sonny

Content:

Quote by: Escemfer


And if I don't want to be snarked at or bullied, I have to be polite to others. If you're not giving whoever-it-is any reason to engage negatively with you, then chances are, they won't. And if you feel like they're personally harassing you, you can always ask a neutral moderator for help. The mere chance of being in the same "room" with someone you don't like should never be a reason to give up and leave entirely. There's always a way to get along with people you don't personally like.


Sorry for derailing, but I just can't let this left uncommented.
Yes, being polite and keeping a low profile can reduce the chances of it happening. But while the Island is probably pretty safe from it, and thanks goodness for that, in the real world out there no amount of being nice and polite, or dressing decent, will save one from being bullied or harrassed when the bullies decide to make one their target. And the moderating authorities aren't around all the time, even if acknowledging that there is a problem (and they don't decide it's only your own problem).

But enough of that. Luckily the Island is different =)

Quote by: Awesome+Fred


You're taking this decision so much more personally than it is. Your opinion matters, but it's not the only one. The last two (three?) weeks have been spent with lots of people voicing their icy hatred of the new Global Banter, then after a week (or two?) to warm up, many of them see the new benefits of the system and either accept that it's not so bad, or that they might even prefer it. You're just a little late to the thread (again, not that your feedback doesn't matter), because it seems that the majority of opinions turned around sufficiently to keep it in.



While I won't deny that some people changed their minds, I would like to point out that it's equally easy to assume many also simply stopped complaining for whatever reasons, or are even too polite or shy to voice their dissent in the first palce.
Without a vote and hard numbers it's not right to declare that the majority of the oppinions turned around. While it could seem to some that the majority did so in the forum, one has to ask how many of all the active player are posting here, and how many of those then really changed their mind?
How many are part of the very vocal and favoured handful, that automatically gets more attention because they repeat their opinions often enough? Or did someone go and count all personal stances here, in banter, distracions and other programms since the experiment started? Not as far as I know. So in my oppinion it stays a totally unsupported assumption.

Therefor the only fair way would be a vote in-game, in a module that can't be skipped accidentally, as banter-votes never striked me as very representative.
Otherwise pretending the opinion of the community is important to the final decision sounds like a lie to me.

I still wish this decision wasn't so final. Good points were made on both sides, but there are still valid complaints. I myself am with the ones prefering another solution, mostly because I still don't like the new, crowded party-banter and agree with all that was said by others above against it.

Are local banters really gone forever, CMJ?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 07:09 PM
By: Matthew

Content:

PHP Formatted Code
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|                                       |
|                                       |
|          STORY                |
|                                       |
|                                       |
---------------------------
|                 |   |                 |
| LOCAL  |   | GLOBAL |
|                 |   |                 |
---------------------------
|                                         |
|       NOTICEBOARD    |
|                                         |
---------------------------


Still seems like the best option.

There's a lot to like about global banter, but there's also a lot to miss about Local banter. Every time I see a thing I used to use Local banter for and I go to do it, I then remember that it's not there anymore and I'm all like "oh...Frown"

edit: And now that I think about it, I kind of have no idea why we decided to do this whole song and dance with the global banter anyway. What happened?

edit edit: do we really need the noticeboard?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 07:31 PM
By: Count+Sessine

Content:

Quote by: Matthew

do we really need the noticeboard?

Oh yes! How else will the monsters of the Island be able to issue threats of vengeance against all you murdering Contestants?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 07:49 PM
By: Full+Metal+Lion

Content:

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: Matthew

do we really need the noticeboard?

Oh yes! How else will the monsters of the Island be able to issue threats of vengeance against all you murdering Contestants?


The Classy.

Quote by: Matthew

And now that I think about it, I kind of have no idea why we decided to do this whole song and dance with the global banter anyway. What happened?


Quote by: CavemanJoe

I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?



Quote by: Awesome+Fred


Quote by: Buddleia

yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt yoghurt


You brits are the worst.


Pish posh! Any true English(wo)man knows it's spelled "Youghurt!"


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 07:53 PM
By: Sonny

Content:

Quote by: Matthew

PHP Formatted Code
---------------------------
|                                       |
|                                       |
|          STORY                |
|                                       |
|                                       |
---------------------------
|                 |   |                 |
| LOCAL  |   | GLOBAL |
|                 |   |                 |
---------------------------
|                                         |
|       NOTICEBOARD    |
|                                         |
---------------------------


Yes, something like this seems better. With toggling between the arrangement of the chats like now.
I'm not so sure about the noticeboard either. 25 SP seems a lot for a message. That's half a new memento and I'm still hoping the pricing will change there. Confused


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 08:34 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Have to admit. I'm turning Banter off now. I've given it a go, and it's not doing it for me. This is no strong argument for the return to the old system, I didn't use it that much before. Now it's just conversation that doesn't interest me.

I am somewhat asocial (as opposed to antisocial), and perhaps there's a a little of the loner in me. Also it's long been my firm belief that we're all a little bit insane and I suppose that counts as weirdo.

Awesome: I think that "icy hatred" is pitching it a bit strong. As I recall the sentiments were more, dislike, but I'll give it a go. Also, what's wrong with us Brits enjoying a nice yoghurt/youghurt with cucumber and mint with your curry? I can assure you that it doesn't work anywhere near as well with strawberry. Or was it pushing metaphors too far that you were referring to?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 09:33 PM
By: Escemfer

Content:

Quote by: Sonny

Quote by: Escemfer


blah blah, be nice to others


Sorry for derailing, but I just can't let this left uncommented.
Yes, being polite and keeping a low profile can reduce the chances of it happening. But while the Island is probably pretty safe from it, and thanks goodness for that, in the real world out there no amount of being nice and polite, or dressing decent, will save one from being bullied or harrassed when the bullies decide to make one their target. And the moderating authorities aren't around all the time, even if acknowledging that there is a problem (and they don't decide it's only your own problem).



Oh, er, I'm really not sure if I've said something to offend you here or not, Sonny. Confused By no means am I suggesting that "playing nice" will solve all your problems and prevent people from being dickwads, in real life or on the Island. I've had my fair share of very unpleasant interactions with others, and people who are dickwads at heart will always be dickwads. I was trying to suggest, though, that for the most part, being pleasant to others eliminates a lot of reasons for non-dickwads to turn into dickwads. Such as minor offenses, misinterpretations, or accidentally stirring up someone you've got a negative history with.

An example being, if I've had arguments with Generic Contestant before, then making comments like "Oh, it's you" or "Escemfer suddenly has to go, it's gotten way too crowded in here" are far more likely to rile up Generic Contestant and lead us both into another argument than if I just say hi, or ignore their presence entirely. Even if Generic Contestant is making those comments at my arrival, then politely ignoring them prevents it from becoming an argument. It's not a fight, or an argument, if only one person is participating.

Yes, people are definitely bullies sometimes, in real life and on the internet. Being nice doesn't change that. But being nice has saved me, personally, a lot of drama.

/off-topic

EDIT: maybe I ought to stop trying to clarify, because now it sounds like I'm suggesting that People Who Don't Like Other People are always making rude, fighty comments, and that isn't what I was trying to suggest at all. Oops! Just pretend I'm really smooth, okay?


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 09:49 PM
By: Iriana

Content:

Can we have a "Split" link straight from the single-column view, instead of having to click "Stack" then "Split" to go back from single to double?

I don't do too well with lots of rapidly flashing colors, especially when I'm trying to concentrate, so it's hard to do a solo scene or write Place descriptions or whatever when Banter is merrily flashing along on the right-hand side. I could disable auto-update, but then it still refreshes every time I write a line in Story or refresh the page. If I hide it when I'm doing something, but then want to go back to talking, there's an extra click because there's no Split above the single Story column. And. That bothers me. Because I am spoiled. And dislike extra clicks.

(/pathetic)

edit:
Slightly more reasonable request: Is there a way for the Banter heading to say which it is? Global could just be "Banter", but in Places it would be lovely to have "Local Banter" or "Place Banter" so that you know who's seeing your Banter.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 16 2012 @ 09:55 PM
By: Trowa

Content:

Quote by: Iriana

Can we have a "Split" link straight from the single-column view, instead of having to click "Stack" then "Split" to go back from single to double?


I was just thinking this, too!

Please? Smile


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 02:20 AM
By: Awesome+Fred

Content:

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Have to admit. I'm turning Banter off now. I've given it a go, and it's not doing it for me. This is no strong argument for the return to the old system, I didn't use it that much before. Now it's just conversation that doesn't interest me.

I am somewhat asocial (as opposed to antisocial), and perhaps there's a a little of the loner in me. Also it's long been my firm belief that we're all a little bit insane and I suppose that counts as weirdo.

Awesome: I think that "icy hatred" is pitching it a bit strong. As I recall the sentiments were more, dislike, but I'll give it a go. Also, what's wrong with us Brits enjoying a nice yoghurt/youghurt with cucumber and mint with your curry? I can assure you that it doesn't work anywhere near as well with strawberry. Or was it pushing metaphors too far that you were referring to?



I used the word "icy" simply to balance out the phrase "warm up" later in the sentence. It initially said "fiery hatred" and "cool down" in those same spots before I reworded it. Either way, I'd say not to focus too much on that sensationalist diction of mine. Instead, you should focus on how absurdly ridiculous the British way of spelling things is. It's not about yogurt. I'm absolutely fine with yogurt. I do not mind yogurt at all.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 03:31 AM
By: Harris

Content:

First off, EVERYONE, please, STOP apologizing for having your opinions.

If you had no opinions, you'd be a pretty damned dull and lifeless person.

WHICH NO-ONE HERE IS. SO STOPPIT.

This leads me into a pure grammatical gripe I must level at this entire @#$%&ing conversation: PLEASE also DO NOT clarify that something you have said is YOUR OPINION. Of COURSE it's yours! YOU are the one saying it! If you're not telling us that you are relating SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION, then PLEASE do not say this thing anymore either. It just adds irrelevant detail to the larger points that you are trying to make, and makes your points harder to understand as a result.

Believe it or not, I WANT to understand EVERY point here, so PLEASE. STOPPIT.


Now back to your regularly scheduled argument, already in progress.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 04:52 AM
By: Waverly

Content:

Quote by: Full+Metal+Lion

I find the concept of trying to get introverts to speak an amusingly sisyphean task. You'd probably have to use a MoTD poll.



This is a good idea.
I'm going to make a rough estimate and guess that 35-40 people have posted to this thread, but what is that in relation to the rest of the Island? Less than 50 out of... I don't know. I almost want to say a thousand regularly to semi- active players, but that might be too generous. Hundreds, at least.
We should try an actual majority vote.

The thought does occur to me, though, that if people can use alts to vote that will skew the results by possibly a large margin. That would have to be fixed first.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 05:02 AM
By: Escemfer

Content:

Quote by: Harris

First off, EVERYONE, please, STOP apologizing for having your opinions.

If you had no opinions, you'd be a pretty damned dull and lifeless person.

WHICH NO-ONE HERE IS. SO STOPPIT.

This leads me into a pure grammatical gripe I must level at this entire @#$%&ing conversation: PLEASE also DO NOT clarify that something you have said is YOUR OPINION. Of COURSE it's yours! YOU are the one saying it! If you're not telling us that you are relating SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION, then PLEASE do not say this thing anymore either. It just adds irrelevant detail to the larger points that you are trying to make, and makes your points harder to understand as a result.

Believe it or not, I WANT to understand EVERY point here, so PLEASE. STOPPIT.


Now back to your regularly scheduled argument, already in progress.


Confused

Edit because I found something to say: I'm sorry you're offended by people trying to be polite. While I can't speak for everyone, the reason I noted that my opinion was an opinion is because, oftentimes, there are people who misinterpret what I (or someone else) intend to be an explanation of my (or their) position as an accusation or personal criticism of their own position. In this case, "this is my opinion" is simply people trying to reassure each other that their opinion is not intended as an instrument with which to hammer the opposition into submission.

I could be missing a humorous intent here, but this seemed like a rather violent and rude response to people trying to be polite to each other in a thread that's gotten pretty heated.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 05:43 AM
By: Harris

Content:

Quote by: Escemfer

Quote by: Harris

First off, EVERYONE, please, STOP apologizing for having your opinions.

If you had no opinions, you'd be a pretty damned dull and lifeless person.

WHICH NO-ONE HERE IS. SO STOPPIT.

This leads me into a pure grammatical gripe I must level at this entire @#$%&ing conversation: PLEASE also DO NOT clarify that something you have said is YOUR OPINION. Of COURSE it's yours! YOU are the one saying it! If you're not telling us that you are relating SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION, then PLEASE do not say this thing anymore either. It just adds irrelevant detail to the larger points that you are trying to make, and makes your points harder to understand as a result.

Believe it or not, I WANT to understand EVERY point here, so PLEASE. STOPPIT.


Now back to your regularly scheduled argument, already in progress.


Confused

Edit because I found something to say: I'm sorry you're offended by people trying to be polite. While I can't speak for everyone, the reason I noted that my opinion was an opinion is because, oftentimes, there are people who misinterpret what I (or someone else) intend to be an explanation of my (or their) position as an accusation or personal criticism of their own position. In this case, "this is my opinion" is simply people trying to reassure each other that their opinion is not intended as an instrument with which to hammer the opposition into submission.

I could be missing a humorous intent here, but this seemed like a rather violent and rude response to people trying to be polite to each other in a thread that's gotten pretty heated.



I think I see why you are calling me rude- it seems you've assumed that I'm against reassuring people. I'm not.

"If you had no opinions, you'd be a pretty damned dull and lifeless person.

WHICH NO-ONE HERE IS."

"Believe it or not, I WANT to understand EVERY point here, so PLEASE. STOPPIT."

How is insisting that no-one is dull, rude? How is telling people that I want to understand them rude? How is wanting people to be clearer, rude?

Did you read everything I said?

You're right about one thing- it WAS violent. Capitalizing entire words is a way to show great emotion, just like saying someone is rude is. I was trying to convey violent emotion, because I DO find slogging through extraneous points to be counterproductive to successfully understanding the ones that are on-topic.

As for why you offered the explanation of your statements as being only your opinion, I do see your point there, but I do still stick by my insistence that it really only muddies the waters. Not as in offends, no- I really do mean muddies only in the sense that it makes each person who does that harder to understand, because so much that has nothing to do with the topic at hand is being jammed in alongside of it.

Why else doesn't it work? Assuming that the audience will do something negative BEFORE they do it, and act on that assumption, is only reliably good for showing the audience that you are making negative assumptions about them before they have had a chance to react.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 05:48 AM
By: Escemfer

Content:

Agree to disagree then, my good sir. Mr. Green I'll continue reassuring people in a way that is comfortable to me. I prefer to be thought pointless than to be thought an asshole.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 05:57 AM
By: Harris

Content:

Quote by: Escemfer

Agree to disagree then, my good sir. Mr. Green I'll continue reassuring people in a way that is comfortable to me. I prefer to be thought pointless than to be thought an asshole.



Just be vigilant against using methods that you're succeeding in spite of, not because of, okay? You're good people, hence my wish to understand you.

It always much more pleasant to understand good folk.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 12:44 PM
By: TeddybearofDeath

Content:

Aha.. hahah.. ha... I might cry. I came too late! If I had time between work shifts to come Enquierer before my burn happened, I might have been able to raise this new support against Global before CMJ already reached the 'keep' verdict.

It seems like in the same way I feel, most of the dissenters gave up trying to voice their opinion because it's so hard to move against a vocal crowd around here... Like so:

Quote by: jenkins

Now, I have no idea how many people used Banter regularly before the change, but I'm pretty damn sure it was more than 10%. There's probably more people using Banter, now the Places Banter has been installed, but that's out of sheer desire not to use Global. I've heard many people complain about Global in Global, but few of those who do have made posts in this thread, mostly because...

Ya see, that's the problem with people who're uncomfortable blabbing in front of hoards they don't know or who certainly don't agree with them. They don't have the balls to run up to your face and disagree!



Quote by: Sonny


While I won't deny that some people changed their minds, I would like to point out that it's equally easy to assume many also simply stopped complaining for whatever reasons, or are even too polite or shy to voice their dissent in the first palce.

...How many are part of the very vocal and favoured handful, that automatically gets more attention because they repeat their opinions often enough? ...



...But when I came and decided to outline the cause of my leaving before leaving, it seems like they had renewed hope.

'Someone else disagrees and is making points against it?! Then hear me out, hear me out too!'

Anyway...

Quote by: Buddleia

Response to Teddy



When you put it like that, I actually agree on all points...

Quote by: jenkins

Don't feel bad, alot of people don't use Global. And I mean ALOT.

On average, there's about 40-90 people on at any given time, right?* But h0w many people are using Banter at any given time? Like, 3-6 people. Once you start hitting 7 or 8 people, you've got posts disapearing in less than 2 minutes, so people stop using it, and it'll go back down. But that's 3-6, out of the 40-90 people all on the island. That's about 5-10% of the island that's willing to go onto Global.

...Leaving them to decide to leave, or give up Banter completely. Which I just don't think is right. It's CMJ's decision, but damn if I don't want to influence him to change his mind.



*Well, maybe like 25 if the island's really empty, but on average and all that



I haven't been in banter for days, but I believe it. We'd have to ask some of those people who're uncomfortable to speak up here if we wanted to prove it... And that's a hard task. : (

If this is true though, it makes me think this question is in order: Are you actually 'improving' a system if the 'improvement' just drives everyone but those who agree with you away from a feature they used to like and use?

Quote by: Sonny


Without a vote and hard numbers it's not right to declare that the majority of the oppinions turned around. While it could seem to some that the majority did so in the forum, one has to ask how many of all the active player are posting here, and how many of those then really changed their mind?

How many are part of the very vocal and favoured handful, that automatically gets more attention because they repeat their opinions often enough? Or did someone go and count all personal stances here, in banter, distracions and other programms since the experiment started? Not as far as I know. So in my oppinion it stays a totally unsupported assumption.

Therefor the only fair way would be a vote in-game, in a module that can't be skipped accidentally, as banter-votes never striked me as very representative.
Otherwise pretending the opinion of the community is important to the final decision sounds like a lie to me.

I still wish this decision wasn't so final. Good points were made on both sides, but there are still valid complaints. I myself am with the ones prefering another solution, mostly because I still don't like the new, crowded party-banter and agree with all that was said by others above against it.

Are local banters really gone forever, CMJ?



Again, agreed on all points. Everyone who doesn't like it has either assumed they will be disregarded like I thought I would be and decided to bite the bullet, or they've left. Those people's feelings don't get considered at all, just casualties.

Quote by: Waverly

The thought does occur to me, though, that if people can use alts to vote that will skew the results by possibly a large margin. That would have to be fixed first.



If mods and Admin are able to distinguish alts with no trouble - and trust me, THEY CAN, I have no doubt a system could be worked out for a proper vote. The question is; would CMJ care enough about our opinions to go through the trouble, especially after he's already come to the conclusion he likes it and is keeping it? I feel a 'no' coming on.

Slightly unrelated notes:

Quote by: Trowa

Quote by: Iriana

Can we have a "Split" link straight from the single-column view, instead of having to click "Stack" then "Split" to go back from single to double?


I was just thinking this, too!

Please? Smile



Thirded, because this irritated me too.

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

I am somewhat asocial (as opposed to antisocial), and perhaps there's a a little of the loner in me. Also it's long been my firm belief that we're all a little bit insane and I suppose that counts as weirdo.



Nooo! Don't be asocial Mary! You're so much fun to be around when I get in touch with you! I hope you share your awesome more often! : D (A little part of me actually does get excited when I get involved with Enquierer stuff, wondering if Mary's gonna reply. Agree or disagree, I always find her points interesting and look forward to seeing her. True story.)


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 07:33 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: TeddybearofDeath

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

I am somewhat asocial (as opposed to antisocial), and perhaps there's a a little of the loner in me. Also it's long been my firm belief that we're all a little bit insane and I suppose that counts as weirdo.



Nooo! Don't be asocial Mary! You're so much fun to be around when I get in touch with you! I hope you share your awesome more often! : D (A little part of me actually does get excited when I get involved with Enquierer stuff, wondering if Mary's gonna reply. Agree or disagree, I always find her points interesting and look forward to seeing her. True story.)



Why thank you. I'll try.

Quote by: TeddybearofDeath

Everyone who doesn't like it has either assumed they will be disregarded like I thought I would be and decided to bite the bullet, or they've left. Those people's feelings don't get considered at all, just casualties.



I think that you're being a wee bit harsh here, feelings get considered. But you can't please everybody. While I'm at it, I think that you're being a tad hard on CMJ. The man couldn't possibly reply individually to each post. If he tried then he'd have no time left over for actually writing the game the way he is.

Quote by: TeddybearofDeath

It seems like in the same way I feel, most of the dissenters gave up trying to voice their opinion because it's so hard to move against a vocal crowd around here...



Actually, in my case it was because I'd said my piece and I didn't have anything else to add. Hence I didn't add anything. I don't see this as some sort of combat at all, and I've got no idea why there seems to be so much aggressive sounding argument from so many people. Personally I'm much more interested in finding out how this effects the Island, for better and worse, there's almost always a bit of both with any change. So I read/listen to everybody.

Now I read that this is a big loss to you. Big enough that you're thinking of leaving. That would be a shame, but it is of course entirely up to you.

But I'm intrigued, I'm not entirely sure why it is that Places don't supply what you need. In fact better than banter in less frequented outposts, since that's still open to the whole Island, whereas with Places Banter you can lock out anybody you don't want. Do you have your own Place? You could build one. They're quite fun, I think anyway.

This brings me on to my opinion on the Great Harris and Escemfer Opinion divide on Opinion stating. In my opinion, if stating that "this is just my opinion" helps calm down people's opinion of the nature of the debate, in your opinion, then it's probably worth stating that it's just your opinion, in my opinion. On the other hand, I can see that Harris' opinion, that stating that "this is just my opinion" is ill placed, since, in his opinion it is obvious that this is your opinion, since who else's opinion is it going to be? also has merit. However it's also my opinion that some people could do with remembering that their opinion is just their opinion instead of getting angry sounding at other people opining their opinion, which has an injurious effect on the solicitation of other opinions from the less opinionated, in my opinion, and hence, also in my opinion, gives me less opinions to take in, to learn from, and to base my own onion on. I mean opinion on.

But that's just my opinion. Or is it???

Also, this thread has already started drifting into a debate on debate once. Perhaps anything more like that should be in a separate thread.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 08:39 PM
By: Trowa

Content:

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

(...) and to base my own onion on. I mean opinion on.


You're one of those folks that used to wear an onion on your belt, too, because it was the style at the time, ain'tchya? Wink
/derail


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 17 2012 @ 09:41 PM
By: Hairy+Mary

Content:

Quote by: Trowa

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

(...) and to base my own onion on. I mean opinion on.


You're one of those folks that used to wear an onion on your belt, too, because it was the style at the time, ain'tchya? Wink
/derail



Curses! My secret is out!


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 18 2012 @ 01:25 PM
By: TeddybearofDeath

Content:

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

I think that you're being a wee bit harsh here, feelings get considered. But you can't please everybody. While I'm at it, I think that you're being a tad hard on CMJ. The man couldn't possibly reply individually to each post. If he tried then he'd have no time left over for actually writing the game the way he is.



Feelings don't get considered. This is not a jab at CMJ because I'm well aware that ANYTIME you change ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, someone's going to react poorly and hiss at the daylight like an old school vampire. You can't let every whine sway you. I'm not completely self-centered, I get that. I've tried to keep that in mind for the last 10-20 changes that came through and shook me up. Some of which I equaly hate but learned to ignore because the site as a whole was still worth it.

On the other hand, on a change as big and ugly as this, alienating and ruining the experience of users, it kills me that we don't get taken into consideration. I can't say for sure what CMJ has taken into account, but without him specifying otherwise, I can only imagine his checklist is, 'Did it break anything? Nope, check. Is it causing any game-breaking, unplayable problems? Any other technical difficulties? Nope, check.' So regardless of whether it forces people exclusively into places like Budd's 'Weirdo Loners' who can't show their face in public for fear of being overwhelmed, the change goes through. I admit, I already often stayed in places for privacy, but there's problems with that.

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

But I'm intrigued, I'm not entirely sure why it is that Places don't supply what you need. In fact better than banter in less frequented outposts, since that's still open to the whole Island, whereas with Places Banter you can lock out anybody you don't want. Do you have your own Place? You could build one. They're quite fun, I think anyway.



My friend's favorite places I like to spend my time in, in several cases have at least some global banter areas. That scares me off, I can't move around and talk without feeling like they're there. And some places keep it entirely! That aside, sometimes I DID venture into public, and into outposts where people I had discomfort with were not present. Now there's no where to go except scurry back under your place bed. I feel like I'm being forced into agoraphobia, elsewise I have to move out of town. So I decided to move out of town, offsite. It's better than living unhappy when there's other options. ..Well, both are unhappy, but one feels like I have more freedom.

Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Actually, in my case it was because I'd said my piece and I didn't have anything else to add. Hence I didn't add anything. I don't see this as some sort of combat at all, and I've got no idea why there seems to be so much aggressive sounding argument from so many people. Personally I'm much more interested in finding out how this effects the Island, for better and worse, there's almost always a bit of both with any change. So I read/listen to everybody.

Now I read that this is a big loss to you. Big enough that you're thinking of leaving. That would be a shame, but it is of course entirely up to you.



It's a huge loss to me, I feel like crying. The fact that this thread itself is dying feels like watching your last candle of hope run down and burn out. I sure as hell don't mean to sound aggressive. As noted repeatedly, I'm frustrated because this hurts me on a deep level, but I'm not trying to attack anyone. I'm just trying to speak up for myself and those who feel like me. Conform or die is not a way I want to live, but I've discovered that's how this site operates in my past year and a half of playing. I've never lived any part of my life as an acquiescing conformer just to continue getting small rewards and some perception of 'stability'. This isn't stable, it isn't happy, and it isn't fun being chased out of my comfort zone for again, reasons I do not understand. Just a sudden upheaval. Why this banter? I doubt I'll ever know.

But it makes me sad, because this is where my friends are, and this has been my only creative outlet and stimulus I've had in years. I've never been on a site like this before, and I don't expect to find another quite as good. It's like making the decision to leave paradise, because it's slowly sickening you, more and more. I'll probably stop drawing again, stop writing, stop having friends. But it's still better than trying to come on here every night and feeling sick and uncomfortable and hindered by this stupid new banter. I can't force myself to like it at the cost of my own health, and stress tears up my stomach and makes it hard to work and support myself. Kind of important.

I'm rambling now, I'll shut up. Thanks to everyone for listening and replying though. I feel good that I was at least heard and able to outline why I, and probably some other folk, are leaving something we once loved and wanted to be a part of the future of. I'll miss you all, and I'm glad for the time I had here to be happy. It never lasts long, but for a while, I had something to look forward to each day. I'm going to miss that, desprately.


Re: Global Banter - Feedback

Posted on: September 18 2012 @ 10:08 PM
By: CavemanJoe

Content:

This thread has become unproductive. Closing.


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