Okay, so I've decided to put Dwellings higher up on my priority list.
Here are some of my thoughts:
Dwellings in their S1 state don't really make sense for S2.
PvP options are no longer relevant.
Having Dwellings stick around after player expiration meant a lot of abandoned Dwellings.
Pages were too long in the residential areas, and there wasn't a good sense of it being a physical space (perhaps streets could be involved?)
Allowing to store Req between DK's was unbalancing.
Dwellings are not set up for Stamina system interaction.
Dwellings are used for RP, and little else. As a gameplay element, they're underutilized.
Dwellings may tie into IItems somehow.
Dwellings on World Map spaces?
Portable Dwellings, such as tents? (take your tent with you, use the Cooking action with a buff to simulate setting up a campfire, then folks can come and chat)
Dwellings cost Donator Points?
What do you guys think we should do with Dwellings?
I like the idea of dwellings on the map, be they temporary or permanent. In lieu of req and cigs, it could be possible to keep some items there. Just think, in the middle of the nowhere between Pleasantville and Kittania, a shack with three medkits in it - saved. (I am aware of the unbalancing properties this could have if clans decide to build chains of shacks between outposts - for example, PV and CC. Or the DK-impervious storage. Maybe racoons could fix this.)
On the travel screens, only the option [Search for hidden shacks] or something could be present, to avoid massive DB calls on the highly frequented paths.
Maybe if near river tiles, with scrap you could build a tiny hydroelectric power plant, with more scrap, a fridge to store meat in or other devices that can be powered with fancy electricity.
Another maybe: Make dwellings require attention, have things happening like a roofing tile breaking, things that have to be fixed in order to keep it inhabitable - they would just rot away otherwise (fixes also the problem with abundant numbers of abandoned dwellings.). Different materials: plastic foil, wood, stone&mortar, steel. Options to tear down a wall and expand, making the shack an annex to a bigger cottage. This could be made very very complex.
I'm a little partial to rooms - as Bernard proposes them, fine, but as mere RP rooms - it's rare enough that more than, say, three characters are in one. An idea would be, to be passed along with keys, some kind of communication device. I have the bad habit to wander out and do some jungle fights if nothing is happening for a while in any given chatspace - even more so since I'm able to buy my way off the Boat.
Okay, I am done with my mouthfull of ideas and thoughts that came oh-so-rapidly down my pharynx and wanted out.
Dan, I could live with any or all of your ideas. It would be nice if dwellings could be in outposts as well as on any other World Map space. I could have my town home, my mountain chalet, a country cottage and a beach shack. I could travel with a caravan or a tent and invite strangers to join me at my campfire. Yes!
I would like it if some type or types of dwelling would still have keys. That way the dwelling is a semi-private place to role-play with friends that are not in your clan. The keys would use up extra dps and/or req quite nicely, as well.
I'd enjoy an option to, well, leave the door to a mansion open. That way, at least the Main room could be entered by anybody for the time of a party/wedding, while other rooms still are locked (For example, Main room: open, winter garden: open, bedroom: locked, kitchen: locked.) but still be private [LOCK ALL] at all other times.
Another item on my wish list would be a 'clear dialog' command, so my meeting with my mistress on Wednesday would not show up when I host her wedding reception on Friday. At lease, it would only show up on purpose.
I agree with Bernard about liking the idea of the portable campsites and the fact that sometimes you just want a mansion because you've worked hard enough that you can afford one. Tying a way to level skills in a kitchen, etc. would also be great.
Here's my thought though, depending on the size of your dwelling (shack, cottage, mansion) you get more stam for resting in it each night. The more posh your surroundings, the more comfort it provides, resulting in a good night's sleep.
I'll also mention that I like the upgradable spaces and let's go with Sicpuess' idea of being able to determine which parts can be public in your mansion rooms. This would be pretty useful for exactly the examples that he cited.
Oh and please don't make basic dwellings cost DP - upgrades such as additional rooms, yes. But basic should be something you can just work on in the game - req and cigs.
I'm seeing lots of good ideas here.. I like the idea of a tent as an iItem, Let's you set up a temp chat space anywhere on the world map, and gives a bonus 5% stam if you rest there over a newday.
more permanent dwellings can cost cigs and req, much like the old system with a similar over night bonus, say 5% for shack, 10% for Cottage, 15% for Mansion
it would be nice if you could improve them so they help build skill levels, too
add a kitchen, and get 500 cooking exp per night
add a private room and get a lockable chatspace
add a home theater and get free specials in that space
these improvements can cost req, cigs, dp, or all three as you feel appropriate.
one other note..., if you sleep in someone elses dwelling and they kick you out, you LOSE 5% stam for the following day..
Since I already mentioned scrap earlier: Sure, you could buy building materials for 10k req from the Council. But of course, you could also tell your Scrapbots to acquire materials. (IE, a lock, 50 planks, nails)
You could also include a garage for shielding some bots from getting attacked. Heck, upgrade it with a weapons turrent or a Scrapbot gunner and it could make a little req for you while you sleep, protecting itself from [Improbable Event] Burglars or monsters that tear down a wall which you're going to have to rebuild, not to speak of the stamina loss for that night.
Tor - I see a little problem with the tents as IItems, being that they vanish over DKs. Since they're likely to be somewhat expensive, it'll be only possible to buy, set up and party in one in the higher levels. What if you DK whilst in a two-day party? Would it go away? If not, then that's bypassing the Items system because you could sell it back - and the thought of a tent as a one-shot item just doesn't seem right.
EXCEPT, of course, if tents are of the same questionable origin as the Magical Mystery Meat Mount, I could see them as - cheaper - one-shot items that are to be set up in a place, and rot away after three RL days or after you kick it over and bury it. It wouldn't be possible to disassemble it and store it away for later usage/selling after DKs, like one would expect from a normal tent.
re : tents as IItems, : good point Sic. I was thinking in terms of a one shot item.. having a 2 or three realday limit instead of a dk based one sounds like a good idea
Perhaps even with the option of using another tent to extend the duration.
Living Tents are an excellent idea. You could run into live ones and capture them as you roam around the map, and keep them in your Inventory for later. And they could shiver in ecstasy whenever they've got someone inside them.
It's so wrong, it's right.
I'd like to second the notions of additional lockable rooms, bonus stamina for sleeping in your dwelling, and tents.
Especially your perverted, shivering tents.
As far as a kitchen goes, how about just cheaper cooking costs while in the kitchen? Like, a -30% buff or something.
Okay, I'm tinkering with Tents on my local test server. Here are some comments from the file:
Roleplaying-wise, we can still do fortresses, amusement parks, et cetera - I'll put in some flavour text mentioning that since Tents are in fact Improbable creatures in their own rights, their insides are naturally larger than their outsides, and can contain whole separate dimensions. Like a Tardis, only, y'know, wonderfully fucked-up in a way that only Improbable Island can manage.
Perhaps later on we can add extra functionality to Tents, various features that will unlock with their age.
(I'm fond of the "anyone can feed a Tent" thing - means it doesn't get expensive for one player to upkeep, and the best Tents will stick around longest)
Okay. More refinement. I'm just typing this as it comes to me, so forgive mistakes and so forth.
As a Tent grows in maturity, its outward appearance does not change. Its interior, however, develops the capability to become larger along a theoretical N-axis (or should that be an I-Axis? ). The upshot of this in gameplay terms is that a Tent's insides can become larger while its outsides remain the same size. And, of course, its insides can become more Improbable. Naturally, larger/more Improbable tents will require more Tent Food (we need a better name - how about "Glop?").
Bear in mind that all numbers quoted are subject to balancing and tinkering when I say "Here's roughly how I see an admin screen working, from a tent-owner's perspective":
Current Tent Age: 51 Days
Current Population Support: 8 players
Current Glop requirements: 2 cans / day
Change Interior Description (+1 can of Glop / Day)
Increase Population Support (+2 Glop / Day = +5 Players)
Train Tent for Allowed Player / Clan list (+1 Glop)
Add Healer (+2 Glop) (LOCKED - need 100 days)
Add Training function (+2 Glop) (LOCKED - need 100 days)
Add Improbable Event support (+1 Glop) (LOCKED - need 100 days)
Add second Chat Area with Description (+2 Glop) (LOCKED - need 200 days)
Add third Chat Area with Description (+2 Glop) (LOCKED - need 400 days)
Auxiliary Chat Areas could fulfil the functions of Rooms or even Streets, given that the Tent owner can modify the description. We'll stick a module hook in there so we can add more functionality later on.
Alright -- I really like the direction Tents are taking now; no complaints -- but, to clarify..
*strokes chin* These would totally take the place of a dwelling-dwelling? No more opportunity for people to build in Outposts anymore, no residential district?
Can we name our tents?
EDIT: Where does Glop come from, how do I get it, is it a Monster Drop, can I harvest it from the riverbanks outside of SquatHole.. etc.!
I am not a fan of taking tents over a mansion, to be perfectly blunt.
Characters that enjoy lavish and large will not be satisfied with having a tent, no matter how big it gets.
Totally up for the added feature, but I really would like to keep the ability to have an actual, standing dwelling. Something that, you know, wasn't so very very odd and strange. It's good to have a little bit normalcy here and there, no?
I like the direction it is going, and it'll lead to having some pretty cool features with what Roleplayers can do, but I really don't like the idea of giving up dwellings for it.
If Glop is to be acquired by means other than spending DP, I propose a Housekeeping Skill.
Annnd... I'd rather keep the outpost dwellings. Tents for the map, shacks for the towns. A housekeeping skill would make more sense then, also. Cheaper upkeep.
Okay, first and foremost, man tents sound awesome.
Secondly: I have a very, very one-track mind, so please keep in mind when I throw my support wholeheartedly into keeping outpost Dwellings that my ENTIRE POINT IN DOING SO is because I WANT A PUBLIC LIBRARY.
Well, and the Baricade back. But that's neither here nor there.
I want a Library and if I have to build it myself, I will do so. On that count, IS THERE ANY CHANCE that Dwellings can be, ah, programmable?
I'm really liking the idea of tents... but, we still need our shacks and cottages and mansions, too! We're talking tents in-addition, and not tents completely-instead-of, right? Dwellings are so important to so many role-players...
Alright -- primary thought if the Glop is mostly DP based.. that's fine and will encourage a frenzy of donating from the core players, and it will also encourage people to make friends so that they can mooch off of other folks' tents, but I think in addition to this, we should have some sort of Dwelling-system that maintains SOME presence in the Outposts so that people who are either non-sociable hermits or people who would pay you if they could but really just can't afford to can have some sort of Dwelling-y roof over their heads. Or people who can't log on often enough to keep up with their tent but would like a Place for their character to say, 'hey that is my home.'
Or for people who end up specializing in Jungle-fighting and so don't wander around the map.
Do not totally scrap Dwellings. There is a certain appeal to having a, you know, non-living house to be in, instead of this wonderfully monstrous tent-thing. (do they have eyes. ohgod, do they have eyes. can i play fetch with my tent. will it greet me eagerly if i leave it alone for too long.)
I have two things to say-- Loving tents more and more, and PLEASE let us have dwellings, too,
perhaps you could even tie in the same module for use in the Locals area of cities.
Y'see, I'm seeing Tents as an automatically-evolving Dwelling, that starts off being like a Shack, then grows through Cottage to Mansion and beyond. A Tent that was mature enough could be a Mansion, y'see.
I think that removing the distinction would open up new RP possibilities - rather than having folks constrained to Cottages, Mansions or Shacks, a structure with a canonically-approved, living, breathing Deus Ex Machina at its heart could be anything. Library, movie theater, whatever you want. Just stick it in the various description fields, and off you go.
That's my viewpoint - and like I say, it ain't set in stone, this idea is still very much a squishy one so please feel free to try to change it.
Oh BTW Skidge, an actually-programmed Library is on my to-do list.
EDIT: That is to say, we could make it so that a Tent with a high enough Maturity could actually grow a structure around it. It may be that your sixty-bedroom Mansion made of stone and brick was conjured up by the tiny little Tent that one day put its roots down in the Mansion's basement.
Oh, and Zolo - yes, of course they have eyes! It's funnier that way.
Right, the ability to paint over it appeals.
However, I don't want to deal with feeding a normal house with Donator points. Nor do I really like the thought of maintaining. There's a point where Realism is just... Bothersome, you know? Ever play Flashpoint elite? Sure, realistic. Forty minutes radio chatter, three minutes gunfight. Mission accomplished. Is boring, and I didn't like it. Even though it was realistic as Hell.
Gathering materials, yes. Totally up for mining stone and whatnot to customize a house, but to have to deal with upkeep and that? That just sounds down right annoying, to be perfectly honest.
why not huts with chicken legs, Baba Yaga style?
Somehow that makes them seem more like things I might need to feed. Chicken feed, and all.
I can understand the need for more cool things to do with Donor Points, to attract more donors, though I would suggest that the initial outlay be in DP's (something relatively high, 1000 DP?) and the upkeep be in something harvestable in game. This will also mean that dwellings owned by players who leave will fade and disappear (or walk off, Baba Yaga style). Oh, upgrades would also be in DP's, I would think.
Maybe also, every once in a while your hut gets up and walks off, and you enlist the aid of your friends to help you find it. Once found you can tell it to go back home.
This has been a somewhat brainstormy and disjointed message by Beeker, who didn't get enough sleep last night.
An interesting point I thought of on reading this topic...if the Tents are living beings, what's to stop them from wandering around while you sleep? You could fall asleep just north of Squat Hole and wake up to the east of AceHigh if your Tent was particularly bored, if they were so inclined.
Right, I'm warming to the idea of tents. However, like others, I reeeeeeally hope we can still have some sort of city dwellings still.
Making tents cost DPs makes sense, seeing as they could be moved about the map, but I think it'd be a bit unfair to lock out dwellings to those who don't have any points.
*totally loses the train of conversation*
JOE I WAS GOING TO LEARN ME SOME PHP JUST SO I COULD BUILD A LIBRARY AND BLOODY WELL GIVE IT TO YOU.
*gets back onto the tracks of the actual conversation*
Ahem. Can we make it possible, assuming that the Cooking skill gets more interesting, to cook meals for other people in Dwellings?
Ooooh, I like the idea of wandering tents. Leave yours alone for too long, and you have to go track it down. Forget to lock it, and somebody can steal it.
Hmm. Wandering Tents could be troublesome - it's thematically interesting, sure, but say you logged off, logged back on to continue a conversation, and your bloody chatspace had buggered off somewhere over the system-newday?
I personally think that sounds hilarious, but then, if it actually happened to me, I'd be kinda miffed.
(the way I see it happening, a Tent would put down roots and stay in one place, once it'd been set there)
(perhaps wandering chatspaces as a different form of Tent?)
Wandering Tent = EntTent?
Also, fourthing Zolotisty.
Well, you'd have to leave it alone for a WHILE; say, a week or so. Leave it alone for a month, and someone else could claim it.
Edited: Ooooh...never mind on the "claim it".
Yeah, having chitinous windows would be fancy and all, but I'd really rather believe I wasn't sleeping inside of something that was a sin against god and nature. Especially since I can say the inside is just a giant grassy field with actual sky instead of some quivering layer of flesh.
How's this.. what if, after your Tent had gone through all of its growth stages.. it dies and leaves a husk. This husk would then be a remodel-able exterior, yeah?
Edit: This way, everyone wins. Also, you can weep as you chip away exterior layers of your beloved Tent to replace its veins with mortar and stone.
What if you could plop down a tent in-town? Perhaps in a glop-field, so it'd cost less glop to maintain, but you're restricted by being able to only put it in a town.
That could satisfy the town-dweller arguement, maybe?
TENT SOULS. They'd haunt your dreams if you slept outside their once pulsating walls.
Or, you know, whatever.
KK has a damned good point. While tents would be special things you could use to put yourself on the map (bad pun intended) you should still be able to have actual city dwellings. Not as magical and upgradeable as the tent probably, but still.
Thirding KK. I want my Baricade to be a standing dwelling, not a tent-thing. I'm happy with tents as an addition, but not so much as a replacement.
Okay, so assuming that Dwellings and Tents are to be kept separate, that brings us back to our original question:
Dwellings as they stand now are a bit pants. How can we make them more S2-Appropriate in a way that won't take me bloody forever, and will still keep Tents as the more-awesome option?
OK -- what's fast for you to code, now? What do we have in the toolkit? Chiefly, what would be enjoyable for you to code? These are tricky questions but the primary requests for dwellings come down to: make them neat to build, let people have more rooms, let people do stamina-related things in them, let people store limited meat and maybe an iitem. How fast is it for you to whack together an iimodule where I can harvest lumber from Forest squares? Or clay from Swamp squares? I am guessing Not Very Fast.
Edit: How fast is it to hide a general contractor somewhere on the Map? I know you said subplots are loooooooong to code, but what happens if I have to run around playing the market with eBoy and negotiating for nails and juggling shit in my bandolier and dying of an overfull backpack as I scrabble valiantly across the map with a caravan of building equipment?
OK, now I'm looking at Tents vs. Dwellings -- I think these should have significant functionality differences to justify their mutual existence. One of them should be able to do some things, another should be able to do others, so that people have to think carefully about which they choose first. I think people should be able to get both, but it should not be easy for people to get both. Dwellings are obviously stationary; Tents can be more-mobile than that.. but, other ways to make this Choiceful for people?
Edit: To be clearer, what can I do in a dwelling that I can't do in a tent? and vice versa.
Oh BTW - the way I imagine Tents expiring is gradual.
Tents have hidden, I-Dimensional stomachs that expand to hold all the food that you give them at once, and then they gradually use it to make themselves bigger. You can't overfeed a Tent - just chuck your hundred cans of Glop in there and leave it to it. You'll have a readout in the TentOwner menu that will show you your Tent's current Glop reserves.
So, rather than having $maturity, $life and $dailyGlopRequired variables, we'd have $size, $glop and $dailyGlopRequired (which for the sake of my poor skinned fingertips, we'll call $glopreq from now on).
So, say you've got 100 cans of Glop stored in your Tent's labyrinthine stomach. At system-newday, your Tent would grow by up to ten $size, as long as it has enough Glop to support it (one $glop = one $size). So, by feeding your tent more Glop, it will grow faster.
Conversely, if you go without feeding your Tent, it will decrease in $size by its daily $glopreq value. Features will gradually get deactivated as the Tent drops below the required $size to sustain them (naturally this will affect $glopreq, making the final stages very gradual), until finally the Tent shrinks down to the size of a pea and nobody can get inside. At which point it'll burrow into the earth and bugger off to wherever Tents go.
So, your Tent won't just suddenly vanish one day if you forget to feed it - you'll have plenty of notice.
Can I sum up some of the ideas we've had so far? They're making my head spin a bit. (Sic Puess, 'How many mutants can you fit in a tent didn't help.) A few thoughts of my own thrown in.
You can still have lockers for items, just make sure that the lockers empty with a DK. After all your bank balance does, so why not? Some people might well find it useful to have a grenade/medikit stash in the middle of nowhere. I'm finding that my backpack (1 stage up from the basic version) is more than big enough, so it wouldn't do me so much good. But then I don't tend to stock up on grenades etc. anyway. Maybe other peoples play styles might give them a different experience. Also, as more items start coming along, that might change. (How much space does a tent take up for example?)
Kitchens, use less stamina for cooking - also can they be used for pickling/making jerky or whatever? This idea has been mentioned a few times. Jerky is less nutritous, but lasts longer (although not through a DK of course). There could be a pickling skill, virtually identical to the cooking skill, and whatserface's cook shop could run similar courses.
Where you sleep affects your stamina the next day. After all, sleeping in the ocean can't really be good for a restful night can it?
Seperate lockable areas.
Hugely useful for roleplayers. Also, being able to 'clear' chat areas. Does this mean getting rid of old musings altogether, or just starting a new page? Could people find out about your old goings on if they were sufficiently motivated to hunt?
Garage for safely storing scrapbots.
Not sure how this is going to work yet. Have to wait until the scrapbot system is in place really. (How's that going by the way?)
Is beer going to be giftable? If so, let people buy in barrels from the Spiderkitty and have them in their homes. Great for parties.
Very speculative idea this one. Have pool playing as a skill, increases with practice. Have a pool table in the PSK where you have to pay for a game, or you can have your own table at home. Have the PSK have a plaque on the wall with the name of the best pool player on the island. Good for those who like Hall of Fame type stuff. Works on an invite basis, similar to the new PvP that we're going to get, (if I've got that right.)
That's all the rooms I think.
Now. For a dwelling, (tent or fixed residence) you start off with one room with a chatspace and a lock. You can buy extra rooms (DP/cigs/req) then pay varying amounts to have them fitted with their own locks, or upgraded to one of the special rooms above. Maybe you have to pay to have a chatspace in them as well? You also have to pay for upkeep. Start with the room in perfect nick. If upkeep isn't paid, then start having moldy patches on the ceiling, rain coming in, and then the roof collapses, and the room can't be used. Allow players to have whatever links they want between rooms, or make them pay for that as well.
Living tents are a great idea, but I agree with KK, have fixed dwellings also. Not going to list all the seperate ideas for tents.
To make them more of a physical space, the first thing that needs to be done is replace 'page1...' with 'Street 1...' It would be better still if they had individual names, but then who's going to name them?
For someone's real estate idea, (Zolotisty?) Have the highest priced real estate at the top of the list.
If someone leaves the island, then their dwelling disappears as well. You're right, there were far too many unfinished buildings around. Having dwellings fall into disrepair and then falling down altogether also helps this. This should happen rather quicker if a whole DK has gone by without anything being done on them or in them.
Okay, Dwellings as they stand now?
Not terribly flexible.
I'll try not to get into too many codey details, but to put it simply - Dwellings were never designed for Improbable Island. They were designed for Legend of the Green Dragon, and as such, they don't understand Stamina, IItems, or the World Map. So, making it so that you've got to collect materials with which to build a Dwelling - yeah, there's a module to do that already, but that module wasn't designed to work with the World Map, or with Stamina. So, we figure out the actions, level ladder, consequences of performing the action while in amber, we make some IItems to represent the various resources (figure out their weights and other attributes, write descriptions, make images), and we rewrite the dwelling resource construction module from scratch, hooking into the World Map rather than the traditional lumberyard and quarry modules (the ones designed for LotGD servers with a single village and no map).
So yeah, that's something that I'd like to do, but it will take a while.
The things that KK mentioned:
Alright, feelin' a little more reassured there then.
I'm only concerned about the bits of the tents leaking into the dwellings. Again, while it'd be really cool and everything to have a dwelling that fell apart as it went on with age, how many of you have to go about your house and patch the roof weekly? Hell, I could understand getting a bare minimum repainting every like, five years. But Hell, there isn't that much upkeep that really goes into a house, besides actually living in it, and that's all just house cleaning and that. It's not like the walls are of a crappy enough quality that you'll need to replaster them on even a monthly or quarterly basis.
Honestly I'm not fond of the idea of upkeep for Dwellings. Tents are different, as I can see them being better than Dwellings in many respects, so worth the feeding - but upkeep of Dwellings sounds more like work than play.
Had to sign up for this thread specifically! Just yesterday mentioned something to Zolotisty about having private chatspaces, and lo and behold, Here's a thread about dwellings.
Living tents: yes. Yes and yes. That is cool.
Ebenezer and I cannot afford to buy bundles and bundles of DP just to have a tent and keep it fed. That is not cool. Yes, coming across tents in the wilderness or in IItem crates. But Glop as a mainly DP item? No way, man. I'm sorry, but I'm not spending money on that, especially when the tent can wither away and die. If that's to be our only dwelling option, that discludes a lot of people from the private chat system, and I'm personally all for having private chatspaces. I love the roleplaying aspect of the game, but it would be so much easier if people could "go home" for some plots.
In-town dwellings of some kind would be fantastic. I personally don't have much I'd spend cigs on. Luggage upgrades, yes. Maybe mounts. Not items that are going to disappear at some point. Eventually, I'll just start wasting cigs on tattoos. Lamesauce. I would love an option to buy in-town dwellings for cigs, and upgrades for cigs or req. That would be fantastic. That would fulfill all my dreams.
And maybe we don't tie the dwellings themselves into the Heads Up stuff. How about this:
Basic dwelling is one room with chatpace. You have options to set up a campfire to cook on or sleep on the floor (log out?).
Upgrade dwellings to add rooms.
Upgrade dwellings to add locks on separate rooms. (Open to public or private with on/off switches?)
Spend req to change the description of a room in your dwelling. Paint the walls, add windows, make it a palace?
Items to last between DKs, as dwelling-only items!
Buy an oven and use less stamina cooking.
Buy a fridge and store food for a short period.
Buy a bed and get a stamina bonus for not sleeping on the floor.
For maintenance and improvements, spend req or harvest materials to repair things or add windows. Basic dwelling stats could be displayed, showing condition, rooms, and windows. Thus, everyone would marvel at how awesome your dwelling is, or spit on you for sucking. And you could still "decorate" the interior however you want with the room descriptions.
I understand what you mean with the 'tent' and 'dwelling' codes being alike so I definitely say go for it, it'll make it a lot faster if you don't have to make the same basic thing twice from scratch.
As for the separation of tent and estate (yay puns), MAKE THE TENT MORE WORTH IT THAN A DWELLING. Tents will use more DPs no matter what, even though they should not be DP only. Make them the ones that get slightly better features than dwellings. Since tents can keep expanding it makes more sense, give them less of a limit to rooms while a dwelling can only have x amount of rooms, making people choose more carefully what they really want out of a dwelling. Make a dwelling worth having of course, perhaps slightly 'stronger' buffs/services provided by its rooms since you only get so many rooms to add on.
To be in the town and close to its shops/services, you should sacrifice some of the freedom and extra room you have with a tent.
Oh hello, Escemfer; pleased to see you contributing here!
I personally vote number two but I think nnnumbah one would also work -- some terrible cross-Island event could wipe 'em all out and people can be partially reimbursed for their requisition and cigs spent. Nnnnnumbah three is an attractive option that I will catcall at even after Tents and Dwellings are all fancy and in-motion.
While we're on the subject, one thing that I really don't like about Dwellings:
Having three different damn types.
All three different types will need different resources and costs, have different features, and at the very core, no matter how much you dick with the description, it's always going to be a Shack, Cottage or Mansion with fancy makeup on.
The way I see it, if a player wants to write a Museum, let 'em. Now, this is where the $size val comes into play, if we rewrite.
Tents will increase their $size via Glop. Dwellings will increase their $size via other resources. So, we're gonna end up with a system where all Dwellings start off as the equivalent of Shacks, and then increase in size with extra rooms and better materials, which will "unlock" more areas where players can change the descriptions. Having multiple different routes that a player can take (IE they can have a Healer or a Training room at 50 $size, but must get 200 $size before they can do both) will give some functional uniqueness to each place (as well as the descriptive uniqueness that you guys naturally provide ), and help alleviate the sense of a player's Barracks being just a Mansion with a Barracks sign.
Yes, but code-wise:
1. Spawn a Something on the map.
(yup, did that with IItem Crates - only difference is that Tents will use their own database table, rather than a serialized modulesetting)
2. Ability for this Something to be spawned by a player.
3. Put a chat space inside this Something.
4. The Something goes away after x days, unless it is refreshed by Some Means.
If I make Tents, then #3 will make itself, if you get me.
Right, so why not forgo working on the quick fix, and instead just go ahead with the bigger portion?
I only speak for myself, but I'm willing to wait a while before everything comes back, rather than have some quick little fix.
I agree with KK. I'd rather wait for the finished version.
Same. Just make the finished Tents, give them to us, and then finish up town dwellings.
Even though I eagerly await Dwellings to return, I would prefer a Tent because I could be what I have always wanted to be: An insane hermit living in the Swamp. With terrible hygiene.
I agree with 'go for the finished product'... as long as it is relatively soon. ;o)
Just throwing in my two-cents: I cannot stress enough how much we should have dwellings. Regular dwellings, too. The tents? Awesome idea, I love what little I've read in this thread. But I really do want houses, and not just freakish Zerg buildings, either. Wood and siding houses. Like KK said, we need a little bit of normalcy here and there.
I'll go with whatever's decided, of course (not going to throw a temper tantrum if regular buildings are nixed), but I feel pretty strongly about this. We need normal dwellings.
And if this has already been decided--I've only read the first couple of pages because I'm having trouble concentrating--then my apologies.
So, anyone of you have some loving memories of going on a trip one summer with your friends and loved ones? Living on a camping site, setting up your tents in a neat circle, grilling sausages over the open fire, just loving life.
THAT is what tents are all about!(IRL) Get together with your friends and even total strangers that happen to come by with a smile on their face. Everyone is allways welcome, extra welcome is they bring coffee/beer/food.
Putting this in a easier to undrestand way, also adding stuff to make tent more awesome than dwellings.
If you set up your tent close to a friend you, and the tent, will be happier(thus getting more benefits) but if there's too many tents it will get crowded and stressfull (bad).
Cooking out in the wilde is a totally different experience that doing it in a proper kitchen, everything you do seems to taste much better(thus giving you more stamina if you cook in a tent). Being out with your friends will also energize you, so will the adventurous experience of sleeping in a tent(more stamina per game day). Natrually it will make you feel great too, adding a buff that will increase hp/decrease stamina cost/incease attack/increase defence.
If you're setting up your tent, a tasty piece of meat, in the middle of a jungle you're bound to get attacked by monsters, sometimes the tent could kill them and feed itself, leaving you with the spare req gained from the kill, sometimes it will take damage and sometimes you will take damage, there should be a skill for the tent to improve attack capabilities(and a buff for being close to other tents as they help eachother out). With a tent, there's an infinite possibility for improbable events.
If you feed your tent it will grow on its own, getting better pretty much automatically. If you want your dwelling to get better you gotta renovate it yourself.
As for dwellings. You will have to build them yourself, costing stamina (and reg/cigs/dp) and possibly other materials, if you want you dwelling to be better/bigger you have to make it so on your own (carpenter skill anyone?) or hire someone to do it for you (for a cost of some dp, depending on the size of the job) this would also make it done faster and abviously save you stamina.
There is no out-partying-with-your-friends-buff for sleeping in a dwelling, all the benefits is simply a small comfort bonus to starting stamina.
It should be possible to make a garage, as previously mentioned, of limited size. You could also build a gym and lose that extra fat you got from eating 5 sausage feast pizzas, and possibly with the effect of the gym in Squat hole. A kitchen is a good idea, it will lower the cost of cooking. Also mentioned before was oven and fridge, it should mean there's an electric bill to pay. So it would be neat with more electric devices, buying a TV that could give you a random buff/debuff when you watch it (it could be possible to have TV and such in a tent, with a solar panel upgrade), imagine actually being able to sit down and WATCH improbable island.
If you cant pay the bills, they will either cut your electricity(making you lose charm from the shame of having everyone see you cant afford to pay the bills) or the electric maffia would come and cut your hands off (it could be possible to bribe the maffia with dp so you wont have to pay the bills for a certain about of time). Ofcourse you will only have to pay the bills if you use anything that needs power.
Turned out to be quite a wall of text there.. but this simply has huge potential. Dan, you should definatly wait with this until it's properly done. You can allways add more events, room and functions later on though.
I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE AND I AM IN LOVE.
you guys have no idea how cool they will be ahhhh.
*tries as hard as possibly not to think of the possible coyote/livingtent offspring*
So, err... would we be able to marry a tent...
SicPeuss, you've got a deeply disturbed mind. And this is why you fit in so well round here.
HAPPILY MARRIED, A'THAAANKYOU.
though really i might reconsider on account of this and [CENSORED] seems to be getting on very well with [CENSORED] so maybe
wait, what am i saying --
Just for my two cents. I started my clan (Brewmaster's Guild) on the notion that the Dwellings would be areas that ae generally user programmable. For example, I would like to create a Brewery around Squathole that people could go into and purchase the same drinks as at the Prancing Spiderkitty for the same prices. (So there is no play balance problems) So I can rp actally being Brewmaster B.B. rather than giving away "fake" drinks like I did in S1. I like the idea of locked and unlocked rooms so I can have "factory tours". I would like the abilty to add description for the locked rooms as well. Maybe as another room that could be purchased and connected or not connected. For example:
Factory Floor (Locked): A rather burly midget with a rock drill stops you as you start to walk towards the factory floor. He says gruffly, "There's no factory tour today." Taking a look at the drill that is now in your stomach, you decide to wait for the next factory tour.
Factory Floor (Unlocked): As you wait for the tour to start, you see a network executive attached to a chain standing in the factory doorway. He seems to look rather shabby as if he has just been dragged out of the jungle.
Honestly, I'd just be happy with a place I can role-play at that I don't have to travel out of an outpost to get to. It's very difficult to do much story related in the outposts comment space, now, especially with the massive influx of players ever since season 2 started. It's nice to have role-playing where anyone can get involved, but with the more complex things? You just can't have someone else walking in who has no idea what you're talking about. But, you can't blame them for wanting to jump in if you've been talking about something serious in an outpost for 30 minutes straight. Other people want to play, too.
look! a post from a newb! read or disregard, it's your choice!
It sounds to me like a tent is a dwelling. I've read everyone's posts and comments about how they really want brick/wood/mortar dwellings in towns. From what I've read on the idea of tents, this seems like it would blend seamlessly. You aquire a tent, plant it in town, and upgrade it to become whatever you want.
My ideas, for whatever they're worth.
Say a tent costs 500 DP. That translates as 10,000 Req. Since DP are more valuable to the site - let's double the req requirement to purchase a tent. 20k req. That get's you exactly what it sounds like. 4 walls and a roof - semi-portable. It starts of with a base coffer of say 1000 Tent Points. A basic tent will consume 100 TP per day, which gives it a lifespan - unfed - of 10 game days. How do you feed it? There should be lots of options. You can feed it straight req - 10 req per TP. 50 DP per 2000 TP, keeping with the trend. TP do not get wiped by a DK, which means you could funnel all your excess req into your tent for upgrades etc. You can't get anything back out from it, so there's no unbalancing of the game.
upgrades - i like the cookstove, bed, fridge, etc. Tired of the canvas walls? Upgrade to wood. Want stone, and towering buttresses? Upgrade. What if you don't want to be the only person footing the bill for your tent. what if you want to build your tent into your clan fortress, or a pub for you and your friends to hang out in? Add a bar. sell drinks to your customers - they hand over req which gets converted to TP. They get beverages just like from Dan at Spiderkitty, your tent gets income. Add rooms on and rent them out to customers for the day - you just became a hotel or brothel (take your pick) and the rooms are time-limited private chat areas for the purchasers - and your tent gets income. Set up your own kitchen and sell food - if it costs you 40 TP to sell a steak, and 500 req for a customer to buy it, you just made a profit of 10 TP. You could even set your own prices and give discounts to friends/clan members - but remember that everything costs TP and if you don't have enough at the end of the day in the coffer to support your upgrades you loose them... and can even loose the tent itself if the coffer gets to 0.
I want an RV or an airstream trailer (can a zombie donkey pull a trailer?). I like the idea of wandering baba yaga tents, especially while you're asleep in them. Imagine waking up on a random part of the Island.
Also, some people seem to have a rather constrained perception of tents. Tents (in the real world) can be as simple and crude as a tarp or as elaborate and luxurious as a portable palace.
However these portable palaces may be by design, they are nothing like the Glory of the Victoria Compound.
I miss it so... And no tent could ever replace the parade grounds, the walls, the sniper towers, the barracks, armory, garage, or Compound Proper, not even if it were stitched from threads of gold...
However these portable palaces may be by design, they are nothing like the Glory of Dunbernarding.
I miss it so... And no tent could ever replace the manicured lawns, the begonias, the shed, the wallpaper, armoire, garage, or two reception rooms, not even if it were stitched from threads of gold...
Yeah, I'm seeing DP and thinking that's nice, but not something I can get (is poor student ) so you need a dwelling that has nothing to do with donator points for us people that try hard to make the game fun for everybody, but haz no moneys. I'd say houses in towns should be stuff you buy and upgrade through sheer work, and tents can be DP. Also, the tent food shouldn't be too expensive, or, if you want to upgrade your tent really fast and make it the best tent evah it can be expensive, but maintaining it shouldn't be expensive (reasons I stopped playing Maple Story, cool stuff cost too much money, then it went away within hours) spending ten dollars a week just to keep an rp device sounds totally uncool.
and and and, when's the next big contest event? (is sad that her donator points from s1 went away )
You shouldn't have had to remake your character in S2. All the S1 characters were copied over... unless you'd maybe let your character expire? In any case, this is the kind of thing Dan will fix... as soon as he gets a moment, which may be a little while due to RL events in his life, but you will have all your DPs back. Promise.
I recently upgraded my hat to a size 66. Is there any way I can have the haberdasher put a door in it and use IT as a tent?
THANK YOU CMJ
talky is looking forward to having a little more privacy. And parties. Definitely parties.
Am I right in thinking that you can only build on plains, not say in swamp for example, off the top of my head? (Now why would I pick that example?)
I don't suppose it's out of the question to rent the toolboxes for 3 days and make them ten pounds lighter, is it?
Just a Question/Invite, Who Here's Still Up for the Mountain Fort? : D
Uh, I just discovered a bug, I think.
I harvested some wood, and was too tired to build with all of it.
On my newday, I'm told I don't have the wood to build with, but its still in my inventory (because I didn't use it).
I just realized I need the Carpentry Toolbox for the building also. My bad.
Can't drop logs or rock on the map at the moment - other than that, looks like dwellings are hot hot hot!
I have been thinking about dwellings a lot lately because I remember CMJ saying somewhere that the outpost invasions were to bide time or something for dwellings. So I read through this thread and came up with a few ideas. These ideas are admitedly impractical, because I have a hyperactive imagination and absolutely no knowledge of coding. I can only guess these ideas are laughably rediculous when it comes to coding them, but I want to share them because they will nag at the back of my head otherwise.
I have been thinking: if these are fleshy, living tents, won't climate be an issue? Wouldn't your tent be unhappy if it's a hairless, thin thing up in the snowy moutains? Or if it's thickly furred, wouldn't the beach be it's bane?
And then, if climate is a factor, the ocean and river squares would be too. I mean, you can't pitch a tent on water.
But you could have a little living raft, or something.
Now, obviously, you can't have a proper boat, that'd kinda mess with the whole "no escape from the island" business. But imagine this:
Your tent's buffs/debuffs could be dependant on where you put it down. So if you buy a yetti tent you get max buff from sleeping in snow, and a debuff for sleeping on ocean, river, and beach, because it can't swim or it gets all sweaty at night and the pantig keeps you awake. This terrain factor could be helpful in making tents slightly less expensive, kinda.
Jungle tents would be the most expensive since there are more jungle squares than anythig. Then plains tents, then beach tents, then moutain tents, and so on. Something like a river tent would be the cheapest because it'd be a major debuff on any land square. And since it's a livig thing, it eliminates the whole "attempt to escape the island" scenario.
See... I kinda want a boat. I'm enjoying RPing the whole Pirate thing, and having a proper boat would be kinda awesome.
But I had other ideas with the terrain-specific tents. Like how it would make tents available to those with little DP, as long as they're willing to only sleep on certain terrains for the maximum buff to apply. And then, if they came into more DP, they could go into the Lodge and get their snow-tent shaved, or something, to let it sleep in the jungle with max buff for a week or something.
As I said, I have a hyperactive imagination, I doubt this would be easy to code, so I don't expect it to happen, but it's a kinda cool thought, I think.
STILL SO EXCITED ABOUT TENTS.
Whatever you all are imagining -- and this includes you, Gen -- they are like forty million times more awesome.
I would love so much to get a Mmmmuud Platform, some sort of living four-legged organism with a fifth 'limb' to 'plunge' in the ocean bed. Like a small oil platform, but more versatile. And mobile!
Forget jungle soils or mountain caves, I aim for the depths around the Island, and in the center too! Muha ha ha ha ha!
Probably pretty pointless this far in, but I gotta throw it out there.. if one wanted to have boats outside the Island(I imagine lake boats wouldn't be able to get over the shallows in the river), would there not be some system to shoot down anyone who got too far out in the water? Even if it's not a functional thing, I'd imagine by now SOMEBODY would've tried to swim out, or make a raft.. Wouldn't want to kill the person, just.. remove the floating thing, or break their kneecaps or something. Oh, I shouldna thought of that, now I think I'm going to have to carry a heavy object and threaten to break people's knees.. it'll be funny! For me.. Now I'm just rambling. Oh yeah, and I totally support proper houses that aren't alive, even if they needed lots of upkeep. I got a husband, now I need a house. Then my plans will be complete! Yeah, they're not very evil plans...
Oh, and I realize this would probably be ridiculously hard to do, but it'd be neat if you could build a house with cobblestones. Of course, you'd have to make them tradable or something, not everyone can install things on the computer they use.. Still, it'd tie in neatly.
*goes to put the gimp suit away*
Dwellings are scenting like pure greatness.
A shame we can't make boat/platform dwellings, yet; many cultures have permanent housing on water/marsh soil.
My current problem is that the tool kits go away at new day, a problem for those whose stakes are a long way from IC.
I have so far wasted 7 cigs, 10% of my experience, 100 donator points, three chronospheres, and about a thousand req in a series of failed attempts to get supplies from IC to my horribly, horribly placed plot at 39,6.
It seemed like such a good idea at the time.
I am also finding myself unable to "drop to the map" this damn rock that I harvested, making my backpack about 30 kgs overweight.
Other than that, dwellings are awesome.
-Just got a Stake to claim some land. WOOOO!!!! YYYAAAY!
-Though, I accidentally claimed two pieces of land on the same square of the map...when I only wanted one. Is there any way to ditch one of the two?
And how does claiming land work? Is there a limit on how many spots I can claim?
Exciting! Very exciting!
Dwellings! The ability to sit on the ground and do nothing! In one's own house!
That is, I am one of the more enthusiast awaiting for them, those dwellings.
I could ask some questions, but I feel that it is better to wait for the release, therefore answering by myself. Funnier.
One stake is supposed to claim one spot of land (limit 4 houses per square). The stake persisted in your Inventory because of a bug in the code. If you let me know roughly where the superflous Dwelling is, I can erase it.
(also, guys, um... If you've used your Stake but it didn't disappear, do game balance a favour and discard it? Don't make me compare the debuglog showing the number of stakes you've bought with the number of houses you've gotten. Ta)
Aye, not launched just yet - I'm gonna fix some nav issues, copy over the test server iitems then upload it.
Now, going live:
Being in a dwelling, build jobs, room expansions, extra rooms, decorating, sleeping, kicking out sleepers, locking and unlocking rooms/dwellings, all that fun stuff.
Giving out keys so that people other than the owner can lock/unlock rooms.
Different bed types / furniture.
In its current state, I reckon it's ready to go ahead with a release.
So far, I'm having a fantastic time with Rawr's little cabin! I noticed the same bugs with the inability to drop logs/rocks, and I imagine that those'll be fixed soon. I just gave up and discarded them when I needed to.
I have encountered a bug though.
Rawr slept in his cabin and then I logged back on before the New Day. I was quite surprised to find that Rawr had magically teleported to Improbable Central in his sleep. That is all kinds of useful and would be a great thing, except it's also cheating
Oh, and to bring the first room on line took about eight to ten game days, in case anybody was wondering... and that's with Rawr as a KittyMorph with the Advanced Backpack and Jump Boots. These things TAKE LOTS OF TIME!
But I guess that's the intention, I like it!
Interesting question comes to mind, all of a sudden and for no apparent reason. Can people be locked in rooms? Purely hypothetical situation; Rawr returns to his home to find somebody sleeping in his bedroom. Since there's only one entrance or exit from the room, he chuckles malevolently and locks the door from outside. Will the person locked in the room be able to escape?
No, there's nobody locked in a small room in Rawr's cottage. Really, I promise.
Okay, there is. This ought to be funny!
No, it's not Piper.
Nah, folks can't be locked inside rooms. You can always exit a room, you just can't enter a locked one.
Dwellings are going to be so awesome, you guys. They're the very next thing I'm going to release, and they're gonna be so, so very very awesome.
I shall proceed to join in to this 'woo' fest.
Allow me to join in as well...
*sets a wide stance, chest out, reaches one arm up and out toward the audience dramatically, takes a deep breath*
"W-" *chokes half to death on a combination of his own salivation over dwellings and the thick fog of awesomeness roiling off of Caveman Joe's manly physique*
I cannot wait for my tent i simply CANNOT WAIT.
Well, I actually can but you know what i mean.
Instead of woo I think I shall EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Oh Joy of JOYS!!
Wait, wait. Tents and homes? Couldn't get any better!
*happy dances a bit before tripping over a power cord*
*Has been looking forward to dwellings also and joins in the general revelry. Manages to do so without choking, tripping over power cables or any other major accident. Is rather pleased with himself for this.*
*Bows in awe of CMJ's muscular build and sheer awesomeness.*
Oh? The announcement of the much anticipated dwellings on the approach? What a great birthday present to me! Thanks kindly, Almighty Joe.
Well, actually it's not my birthday anymore, since it's officially the thirteenth, but the announcement was made yesterday, so it counts!
I cant wait...cant wait cant wait! I feel like a kid just before christmas
How do you buy a stake, anyway?
Go to IC to the new 'Suzie's hardware'. You can get a stake for 100cigs, and can rent a few kits for one day for one cig each.
Let me be the first to say this. *ahem*
Improbable Dwellings System: pulling another all-nighter.
Gathering materials (uses iitems as it's meant to be used - rather than determining a specific iitem to be used, player can use any iitem with the "woodchopping" or "stonecutting" properties (of which there are only two right now, so it won't appear much different to the player yet)).
Picking up and dropping material iitems on the World Map (this is reusable for later iitems, just add the worldmapdrop property - see above).
Buying a land claim stake.
Staking the ground.
Setting up build jobs.
Processing build jobs (any player can join in the building, only the dwelling owner can set up new build jobs).
Erecting a dwelling.
Entering and exiting the dwelling.
Build jobs for room expansion.
Build jobs for creation of additional rooms (each with their own chatspace).
Custom room and house titles and interior/exterior descriptions via the Decorating system. No more shack/cottage/mansion divisions - Improbable Dwellings has roleplayers in mind.
Not yet implemented but required for release:
Sleeping (and corresponding Stamina gain).
Not yet implemented but could be added after release:
Furniture, including beds, kitchens and so forth.
Modulehooks for Improbable Labs modules.
Gonna try to at least get the sleeping system done tonight.
HELL YES DWELLINGS!!!
Oh yeah. I'm pretty sure Dwellings are gonna be used heavily for cybering.
Sorting out the sleeping system... First version sucked, now doing a simpler one...
Going to sleep.
Accessing New Day menu from sleep page.
Refreshing the page from sleep page.
Getting a New Day from sleep page.
(house owner) Kicking out sleepers.
Getting a Stamina boost (although this is pretty trivial).
During testing I'm pretty much just kicking The Watcher out of bed over and over again.
Stamina boost sorted - we've no beds yet, folks are just sleeping on the floor, but furniture shops and so on can be released after the core system...
Can you get the stamina buff when using a Chronosphere, or do you have to log out there for a normal New Day?
You can use a chronosphere. Needed some changes to daysave.php, but barring the new day menu stuff and the World Map integration, this is pretty much DragonBones/S3 ready. All iitems and stamina, very little core stuff involved.
Individual rooms and entire dwelling can now be locked or unlocked. No functionality to create or distribute new keys yet. Going to bed.
Didn't go to bed, added nested room functionality instead. Now an ensuite bathroom can be set as inaccessible without going through the bedroom, for instance.
OK, now I'm going to bed. Four in the bleedin' morning.
I may be the only one who thinks this but really, you don't have to stay up so late just for us internets people.
Even though we really appreciate it.
OK, so how does one 'link in' to the dwelling system? I don't see a 'land office' and heve yet to find 'materials'. How about a clue?
AFAIK, it hasn't launched yet, Zpatula.
Talking of locks, am I correct in assumping that eventually we'll be able to issue keys to friends to let 'em in when the dwelling is locked?
(I'm pretty sure I saw something about this, but Ive just waded through most of this thread, as well as other dwelling related threads and haven't seen anything more than general references to locking rooms. So I could easily be deluding myself in wistful hope...)
Another feature that I'd like to see,
Can we get a status update for the decorations? As it stands I completely forget how far along in the decoration of my house I am. Is there an easy way to tell about this, or has it not been implemented yet?
--Also, could there be an indication to others that the house is currently being decorated? There is a little XX/YY STONE thing to show that there isn't enough stone as of yet, but can there be something of that breed for the decorations? Just so that others would know that your home still needs some decoration work so they can help out easier.
so i've already made two mistakes... i started a building project to increase the size of a room that i didn't want to increase, and i've made a room off of a wrong room. (i know, there was warnings but i was feeling rash!)
can we get an option to stop building, or to destroy a room? perhaps some of the material would be saved but that isn't really too concerning.
i really hate to sound like i'm nagging for features. dwellings are great so far!
Dwelling are great! Thank you!
One feature request though: is it possible to display a decorating job in the list of current constructions and the appropriate progress thereof? It's getting hard to plan and track those.
I'm gonna close this thread, but only 'cause I'm keeping a close eye on what folks are saying about Dwellings and it's a pain in the arse having a thread for feedback, a thread for bugs, and this thread (which is feedback AND bugs).
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