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Ada
 Sunday, May 13 2012 @ 09:47 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Lunasol


Can ANYONE name ONE COUPLE that has lasted more than six months on this island. Let's not include Bob and such, for obvious reasons. But, the few I know are few and far between and all of them adult enough to keep pregnancy away.




*Puts up hand*


...But, really, if you think they're so rare, I could get you a list.


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Sunday, May 13 2012 @ 09:48 PM UTC  
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1. Thank you for the welcome.

2. Sessine:
I am aware that this is a game and a silly, carefree-ish one at that, I just tend to have very strong opinions on the subject matter (as if that wasn't blatantly obvious). II figured if there was any place to let myself have a good ole fashioned rant about those opinions, it would be this thread.

I'm not trying to hinder anyone's creative process here at all, I am merely stating why I think it would be a bad idea, but you do have some very valid points.




As for characters who have been married more than six months, I would like to proudly showcase AiB's founder's marriage. Adder and Pod got married in 2010 and they've been together much longer than that ^_^.

Cherri herself has been married once but her initial experiences on the island we don't talk about because that was some of the aforementioned poor writing. I honestly don't know if Cherri would get married again. I mean relationships are an important part of her character but at the same time, I don't make that the main focus of her... I am trying to think about the best way to put this. Would I marry Cherri off? Sure, if we find the right character for her. But then that character will be subjected to the judgement and trials of the AiB clan. So will she get married - probably not XD

But I digress (again) because now I have gone completely off topic.


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, May 13 2012 @ 10:54 PM UTC  
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Cherriki, I'm sorry -- I was kind of sounding off, too. I mainly wanted to make the point about the two Islands, and not interpreting elements of CMJ's story as a veiled order to players. If he wants to forbid all pregnancy storylines he won't just hint at us, he'll say so outright.

(And if he ever does, well, it's his game. I'll enforce the rule.)

That said, I agree it's rare for such storylines to work out satisfactorily. Kids as temporary toys... yeah. No more than a variation on "Oh look, I have this cuuuute little pet!" One use that I have seen turn out fairly well -- in one case that I can think of, outstandingly well -- is for a player to transfer from an original character to a new 'daughter' or 'son' character that has the personality they now want to play.


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Sunday, May 13 2012 @ 11:11 PM UTC  
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My post came off as snippy which wasn't how I intended . This damned internet and its restriction on the ability to express the proper inflection **shakes fist at internet**


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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Lunasol
 Sunday, May 13 2012 @ 11:47 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada

Quote by: Lunasol


Can ANYONE name ONE COUPLE that has lasted more than six months on this island. Let's not include Bob and such, for obvious reasons. But, the few I know are few and far between and all of them adult enough to keep pregnancy away.




*Puts up hand*


...But, really, if you think they're so rare, I could get you a list.



Oh, yes, I can name a list of couples. The point wasn't that those relationships are so rare, it's that the ones that work generally bypass the pregnancy pit fall.

Maybe I emphasized wrong or ended the sentence wrong, I tend to.


 
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Daedalus
 Monday, May 14 2012 @ 01:18 AM UTC  
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My thoughts to why the presence of minors on the Island is 'not on' ... let me emphatically reiterate the above-cited excerpt from FAQ, just in case you missed it:

The Island is hosted in the UK, where the laws are extremely stringent; there's no wriggle room on this at all.

My understanding is that the Island site is 'adult material' by UK standards. (Remember that little "Yes I am over 18" clause we all had to agree to?) This gives us a great deal of liberty to indulge in writing about 'sex and drugs and rock & roll' and violence (usw.), but it means that there is also a great deal of sensitivity to inclusion of any hint of underage participation in sexual material and drug usage. Including fictional particiption! Anyone who starts writing about kids even inadverdantly witnessing 'adult' shenanigans is putting CMJ at risk of a legal shit-fight, and I'd argue that he's quite entitled to say "nuh uh, not on my site you don't".

It (RP-ing the having/creating/being offspring) has occasionaly been tolerated where the writing doesn't create the type of situations described above, and I think this is to CMJ's credit. I read it (the tolerance) as CMJ wanting to allow us the maximum creative space that can be given without incurring the aforementioned shit-fight. But if that tolerance is abused then I'm guessing that CMJ would have no choice but enforcing it without exception, and who could blame him? So let's not abuse it, huh?

As to why it's 'suddenly' come up in recent storylines, I hadn't actually noticed it being so. This may be just because I always knew it was there. I thought the recent in-plot mentions of radiation poisoning naturally raised issues of the consequences, which includes fertility issues. Perhaps it was intentional as a periodic reminder? Perhaps I shouldn't be trying to guess CMJ's motivations?

It has nonetheless been an interesting thread with lots of different takes on the how it could be done and why/why not, and I don't mean to suggest that this is a bad thing. But lifting the ban? I don't think so.

D.


PS:

Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

**shakes fist at internet**



Yeah, you tell 'em, err ... it, Cherri. Mr. Green


The lunatics are taking over the asylum! Come with?
 
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Omega
 Monday, May 14 2012 @ 01:31 PM UTC  
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Maintaining my tradition of half-off-topic short comments that are of questionable helpfulness,I am going to say that listing couples that managed to stay married and stay on the Island for six months or longer is not necessary because such a list already exists in the common grounds!

(It's also a very curious list. For example, when clicking on a bio, it links to said bio by the character name in the char= field instead of using ID number. That makes it inconsistent with all other lists. It also tells me you can open your bio just by going to Improbableisland.com/bio.php?char= and writing your name in the end.)


There are two secrets to success. The second one is to never reveal all your secrets.
 
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Trowa
 Monday, May 14 2012 @ 02:45 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Omega

It also tells me you can open your bio just by going to Improbableisland.com/bio.php?char= and writing your name in the end.)


Sliding off-topic myself, here, but responding to the off-topic comment with an on-that-subject comment: That is a very interesting find, Omega! I, too, noticed the married contestants list wasn't updated with the other lists, but I heard a rumor that it was left alone due to "screw it, I can't be arsed to figure it out right now."*
Of note, though: it only shows married contestants when they're online. But! It does show their marriage dates!

And on that note: Trowa's marriage to Tamar is coming up on a one-year anniversary! But, uh...maybe that doesn't count towards the discussion since they haven't spoken to each other in Story in nearly as long... <.< ... >.>

*Wait... is the forum of filth considered an extension of the wiki of lies? Can I blur the lines like that? Or do I need to find my way to the gallery of shame and sit in a corner?


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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Trowa
 Monday, May 14 2012 @ 03:10 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Trowa

Of note, though: it only shows married contestants when they're online.


Nevermind! I am entirely full of lies today! Oops! I forgot there's a set of links to the side to show the list of all married contestants.


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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Ada
 Monday, May 14 2012 @ 05:49 PM UTC  
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Rather a lot of couples aren't married though, so it's only a very partial list.


 
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Genevieve
 Monday, May 14 2012 @ 07:59 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Daedalus


My understanding is that the Island site is 'adult material' by UK standards. (Remember that little "Yes I am over 18" clause we all had to agree to?) This gives us a great deal of liberty to indulge in writing about 'sex and drugs and rock & roll' and violence (usw.), but it means that there is also a great deal of sensitivity to inclusion of any hint of underage participation in sexual material and drug usage. Including fictional particiption! Anyone who starts writing about kids even inadverdantly witnessing 'adult' shenanigans is putting CMJ at risk of a legal shit-fight, and I'd argue that he's quite entitled to say "nuh uh, not on my site you don't".




Quote by: Count Sessine


That said, I agree it's rare for such storylines to work out satisfactorily. Kids as temporary toys... yeah. No more than a variation on "Oh look, I have this cuuuute little pet!" One use that I have seen turn out fairly well -- in one case that I can think of, outstandingly well -- is for a player to transfer from an original character to a new 'daughter' or 'son' character that has the personality they now want to play.



It is frustratingly hard to contribute to a conversation when such incredible points have been made already! I really have to agree, when I've seen children pop up, they've almost always been a "LOOKIT ME I'VE A BABY OH MAN I GET THE ATTENTION NOW" And yeah that sounds really rude of me but that is how I, personally, see it. Sorry if that's especially obnoxious. And I have seen a lot of people with teenaged alts, as their 'offspring' and that's all well and good, like hoosit, Silcatra's kid. But there's plenty of other "child" alts, who are still under age (though they're 17 and totally grown up, dude, don't question me) that could end up being risky. And I understand the whole, "well, lets move down the line a bit" mentality, deciding to play as your kid, I mean, this is a game. We all should be able to have fun with it. But I am going to agree with Cherri in that it personally annoys the ever-living crap out of me when I see pregnant players. Pregnancy is not easy, nor is running from lions. I have difficulty putting the two together. Again, that is my personal opinion.

and, on an aside, Carlynne and Jacques have been, for all intents and purposes, married since 2009, when it was Genevieve and Jacques. She's the same person! Razz


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Monday, May 14 2012 @ 10:33 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Trowa

Wait... is the forum of filth considered an extension of the wiki of lies? Can I blur the lines like that? Or do I need to find my way to the gallery of shame and sit in a corner?


Since I find the current conversation a dull rehashing of other threads (no offense to the participants, I just bore easily) I'll comment on this by saying you can do all the blurring you like. It's all the same newspaper. But why do you ask?

OT: "Everyone can RP the way they want, except for child porn, though I personally find some RP annoying." Yeah... that about covers it.

Now go discuss something useful.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Tuesday, May 15 2012 @ 06:10 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

But then there's the ever-shifting, multi-strand Island of player story. Sometimes it is much like CMJ's Island. Sometimes it is very far removed -- and, you know, that's all right.



Why is that all right?

If you take a look at this here list, you'll find dozens and dozens of LoGD-based servers. Most of them are shit, and on those it's fine to have children and be a magical sex demon with a TARDIS or whatever's cool today. Why is that acceptable here? This is CMJ's Island. It has a canon, and a pretty freakin' cool one at that, one that is tons of fun to play within. What's the point of having CMJ at all if we're going to ignore his canon, just for the sake of not angering the shitty portion of the playerbase?


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, May 15 2012 @ 07:18 AM UTC  
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Okay, I think it might be time for me to weigh in on this.

Yes, it bothers me to have eight-foot-tall demons, Nintendo characters, kids, gods, and other characters that don't at all fit with the world running around, especially in NewHome.
No, I'm not going to enforce a rule saying You Cannot Be A Pokemon.
Yes, I am going to gently prod fun at those who do, and try to encourage roleplaying within the canon, through events like the Pokemon Intervention in the NewHome pub* - and yeah, the "Okay, THIS is why there aren't any kids, it's not something that Humans tend to bring up in polite conversation because we'd all go bonkers if we admitted to ourselves that our species was in mortal peril, fer feck's sake look at how people react to climate change, never mind mass-sterilisation" bit in the Dancer intro was kinda... prompted, shall we say, by the pregnancies and kids on the Island.
Yes, I do realise that the Improbability Drive itself is a pretty good justification for just about anything, which is why it's gentle encouragement through story, and not an Admin Decree.


Incidentally, the Drive started off as a way for me to create a world in which anything is possible, because hey guys, guess what - I didn't consider that this game might one day be a Big Thing. I wrote in a very lazy, half-arsed way, even going so far as to base the whole game around a machine that lets me wave my hand and go "Because Improbability, that's why," because the thought that this might one day be not only my day job but an artistic endeavour just didn't seem likely. If I say to my players, "No you can't do 'Because Improbability' even though I based the whole damn game around 'Because Improbability,'" then that'd make me a pretty colossal tool.


(hell, when Zolotisty came over last year to pick my brains, we pretty much ended up with five hours' worth of me saying "Yeah, that's another thing that I wrote in just because it was funny, and not for any plot-related reasons... Jesus, there's a lot of those things, maybe I should do something about that...")


You'll note that the new stories and plot events do try, a little, to explain the Drive and its limits (see "Daughter of Chance," and the "I am not your God" discussion with the Drive). As I write more, we get more of a Proper Canon in which the world gets a bit more concrete. Which I guess is why we're having this conversation. Yes, I want roleplaying on the Island to be a tad more cohesive, but I think the best way for me to encourage that is to carry on writing, not to make up new rules.


I established, with my mods, the "Don't tell others how to play pretend" guideline (or rather, to me and my mods, the "Don't let players tell other players how to play pretend" guideline) because we were getting a lot of heated discussions about how you can't be a Pokemon (although at the time, they were more discussions about how it's kinda tacky to roleplay laser-eyes and Heather Beams as a level two Rookie). After reflection, I think that guideline only solved half the problem. People complain less, but still feel as though they have something to complain about, that they're now discouraged from talking about.


I don't think it's time to revisit that guideline yet. That day might come, yes - but first, I have to clean up my own act, and strengthen the canon by writing lots of stories and backstories.


And on that note, I just finished the text of the next Rohit bit, and I'm going to program and release it this week. Smile


* code:

PHP Formatted Code
$phrases = array(
                    1 => "drunkenly slurring their way through \"`\$The Watcher`0's Tits,\" a drinking song well-known for its quaint misogynistic charm.",
                    2 => "wondering aloud why they keep coming back to NewHome even when the Requisition payout's better in less-populated Outposts.",
                    3 => "arguing about strategies to use with the One Hundred Mysteries machine.",
                    4 => "gossipping about some KittyMorph called Akira, and whether Maiko will ever get around to jumping his bones.",
                    5 => "merrily mutilating the NewHome theme song, \"NewHome is Full of Noobs.\"",
                    6 => "happily belting out an amateur rendition of that popular classic, \"FailBoat, Why Don't You Just Sink.\"",
                    7 => "discussing politics and religion in a calm, friendly, respectful and humorous manner.  No, wait - as you look closer you see they're doing nothing of the sort, they're just busying themselves trying to light their own farts.  Never mind.",
                    8 => "who appear to be staging an intervention of some sort.  As you watch, the discussion escalates, and you plainly hear one man say \"No `ilisten`i, right, `iyou're not a fucking Pokemon.`i  You just hit your bloody head too hard when you landed.  No, `ishut up,`i you can't do lightning.  You're just pointing your fingers and going \"Bzzt.\"  It's `idaft.`i\"",
                );
                $chosenphrase = array_rand($phrases);
                output("The Rook's Nest Pub started life as little more than a large, olive-green tent, smelling of hops and gunpowder.  Since its initial erection, the tent has sprouted little extra warts of architecture - huts and shacks surround the tent's canvas perimeter, serving as storage rooms, crude lavatories, even a whole extra bar area.  Only the North-facing wall remains unaltered, so that the canvas can be rolled up on sunny days, opening the entire front of the pub to the sunshine.`n`nIn the centre of the main room are three long tables, each big enough to seat twenty to a side.  Scattered off in the corners are some smaller tables that could each accomodate an intimate couple, a cosy trio, or four `iextremely`i close friends.`n`nThe tables are packed with new recruits of all shapes and sizes.  More than a few are naked, and sit staring off into space with that familiar \"Just tossed from a plane\" look in their eyes.`n`nAt the far end (or, if you like, the \"bar end\") of the left table, a squad of slumming Officers sit around with glasses in hands, %s`n`nThe bartender, a thin Indian man by the name of Vivaan with some truly wicked sideburns, dispenses beer and wine at the bar on the South wall of the tent.  He handles himself with easy confidence.",$phrases[$chosenphrase]);


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Tuesday, May 15 2012 @ 07:19 AM UTC  
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Well I had a post here but I wanted to delete it and I don't know how.


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, May 15 2012 @ 07:46 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

Well I had a post here but I wanted to delete it and I don't know how.



Which one? I can erase it for you, but it'll leave a gap in the Conversation Which It Now Seems We Are Having. Razz

Also, on the subject of telling people how to play pretend: guys, the Island is fairly popular with the blind and visually-impaired community. Screen readers, braille interfaces, speech-to-text and other such technology is not at all perfect, so typos (and replacement of words that sound the same, IE you're and your) are common with our blind players. I mention this now because yeah, good grammar and spelling is important, but for some folks it's just not do-able with our current technology.

So, um, I guess... next time someone comes on confusing your and you're, make sure they're not actually blind before you make yourself look daft by correcting them. Razz


 
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Matthew
 Tuesday, May 15 2012 @ 12:13 PM UTC  
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Honestly, CMJ? I always got the impression that the Improbability Drive and the Island and the Watcher and all of this other stuff was just more of an excuse to write the robot stuff. In my opinion that's always gotten your best/most spirited/interesting writing out of everything.

Not to say everything else was bad. I just love the robot stuff.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Tuesday, May 15 2012 @ 04:47 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew

Honestly, CMJ? I always got the impression that the Improbability Drive and the Island and the Watcher and all of this other stuff was just more of an excuse to write the robot stuff. In my opinion that's always gotten your best/most spirited/interesting writing out of everything.

Not to say everything else was bad. I just love the robot stuff.



Heh. I think that's just me getting better with practice, and the robot stuff being newest. Razz


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Tuesday, May 15 2012 @ 07:56 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

Well I had a post here but I wanted to delete it and I don't know how.



Which one? I can erase it for you, but it'll leave a gap in the Conversation Which It Now Seems We Are Having. Razz

Also, on the subject of telling people how to play pretend: guys, the Island is fairly popular with the blind and visually-impaired community. Screen readers, braille interfaces, speech-to-text and other such technology is not at all perfect, so typos (and replacement of words that sound the same, IE you're and your) are common with our blind players. I mention this now because yeah, good grammar and spelling is important, but for some folks it's just not do-able with our current technology.

So, um, I guess... next time someone comes on confusing your and you're, make sure they're not actually blind before you make yourself look daft by correcting them. Razz



Actually, that exact post that you quoted, though it'll definitely make it look like you're talking to yourself Razz

Also, in relation to storylines, I really loved the Stranger plot. That was fantastic (my only issue was there were like 5 strangers running around the island after that - no offense to those writers -_-'). I haven't really seen any of the new plots cause I stopped playing in October or November last year and have just come back to it.

I do remember Rohit, and I am looking forward to seeing more of that Big Grin


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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TeddybearofDeath
 Wednesday, May 16 2012 @ 05:59 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Okay, I think it might be time for me to weigh in on this.

Yes, it bothers me to have eight-foot-tall demons, Nintendo characters, kids, gods, and other characters that don't at all fit with the world running around, especially in NewHome.
No, I'm not going to enforce a rule saying You Cannot Be A Pokemon.
Yes, I am going to gently prod fun at those who do, and try to encourage roleplaying within the canon, through events like the Pokemon Intervention in the NewHome pub* - and yeah, the "Okay, THIS is why there aren't any kids, it's not something that Humans tend to bring up in polite conversation because we'd all go bonkers if we admitted to ourselves that our species was in mortal peril, fer feck's sake look at how people react to climate change, never mind mass-sterilisation" bit in the Dancer intro was kinda... prompted, shall we say, by the pregnancies and kids on the Island.
Yes, I do realise that the Improbability Drive itself is a pretty good justification for just about anything, which is why it's gentle encouragement through story, and not an Admin Decree.



I know I'm probably going to be flamed and picked-apart and totally bashed on for this, but I just have to say, it's disheartening news. When I came to II, I felt like I came home because of the range of quality, commited roleplayers, the good gameplay, and the open-ended nature allowing a lot of artistic freedom. I openly admit, most of my writing and characters go against direct cannon gameplay. I always thought the island was like Sessine said though, CMJ's direct works, and our own little whatever for fun, to enjoy ourselves. But now that I know that CMJ feels like we're stomping all over his idea, and is too polite to say so out right.. I don't know. I don't feel good about being here anymore.

I'm wondering now, should I delete my chars who don't follow cannon (all but one, and the one is arguable) which I've put my own real money towards and thoroughly enjoy, and try to continue with that last char, only as cannon dictates? Or should I try to pick up and leave altogether, going back to low quality attempts at roleplaying on crappy forums with no actual game, and people who drop out after one post or can't be mature and have fun.

And if so, I don't understand the cash items. If we're expected to exercise limited artistic freedom within the bounds of the cannon, why give us the free pass option of making our race, and things of that nature?

I have always assumed that, the cannon was a guideline to set the scene and immerse us in the world and give us ideas to roleplay, but that the actual storying existed for us to play with as made us happy, to our imagination's content. That's what I loved about this place, options limited only by your own imagination! In ANY roleplay, there are bad writers, there are poorly conceived ideas, there are trial and errors and things that go wildly out of control, as any project people collaborate on! As long as people are roleplaying or engaging in any kind of fiction, most of it will be BAD. But the idea is to enjoy it, not.. PUBLISH it or critique it. So long as no laws or critical rules are being broken, it seemed like it should be ok!

But I realize now, that most people including the creator don't feel that way. It's a weird, sort of abandoned feeling to know. I don't want to piss on something so important to CMJ. I don't want to infringe on his ideas and creative freedoms. I don't feel like that's right. But I'll be really sad to learn I've been doing it all wrong, and feel the need to leave because of it. The Island means so very much to me, but it's not mine. I've always had trouble conforming to other people's ideas. Does that mean I don't belong here now? I hope it doesn't come down to that.. I really do love the Island, the game, CMJ, and all the wonderful people I've gotten to meet because of them. I'm so conflicted, I can't figure out how best to proceed with this new revelation..

And again, please, nobody scream me out for feeling this way. It's just how I feel. I really do respect CMJ and everyone else's opinions, and I'm not saying this to say anyone else is wrong in wanting to play strict. I just had always hoped the Island wasn't that place where everyone was fanatical about cannon and super-correct conforming to ideas which aren't necessarily their own. I don't know what to do now, I feel trapped and sad.


"It's hard to get pumped about this, without someone nice n' fuzzy around."
 
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