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 Shall we have more pubs?
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Bakemaster
 Sunday, February 07 2010 @ 01:53 AM UTC  
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Marly: I'm not trying to put words in your mouth; my point is simply that there is a system of food availability which is ostensibly balanced at present. Change that system, and you change the balance. Add a food source in Ace High, and you directly benefit Jokers as a race, even if your motivation is unrelated.


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Ada
 Sunday, February 07 2010 @ 12:46 PM UTC  
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I disagree! No one says (or, if they have, I have not heard them) that mutants are overpowered because their hometown has the best steak. Who even stays in their hometown anyway? I for one am almost never in AceHigh - just for roleplaying. There's nothing I want to do there. I spend more time in Pleasantville and Central.
I think what Marly meant (although she's welcome to correct me!) is that she doesn't want to walk to Pleasantville for food on a bad joker day, if she's in AceHigh. This isn't really a question about balancing races, more a complaint about not wanting to leave town to get food that isn't rat packs. If I were playing midget, I wouldn't want to have to walk from AceHigh to Pleasantville either, if I was supposed to be questing in AceHigh or something. The same thing with Cyber City. People are forever complaining that it hasn't got any food, even though the race centred there doesn't eat.


 
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Bernard
 Sunday, February 07 2010 @ 03:16 PM UTC  
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Okay, what about an improbable event (akin to the Brothy-lad) where a food van turns up? And should you choose to eat there, you may either get a delicious, post-beverage snack leaving you feeling on top of the world, or Salmonella.


 
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Chimental
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 12:48 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Bernard

Okay, what about an improbable event (akin to the Brothy-lad) where a food van turns up? And should you choose to eat there, you may either get a delicious, post-beverage snack leaving you feeling on top of the world, or Salmonella.



Hey, I've eaten the Flesh-Eating Virus before. Salmonella will be considered a snack.


I make the many models of a mutant individual. To make them I use vegetables, animals, and minerals. From robot bugs to zombie bears to many singing barnacles.
 
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Bakemaster
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 02:13 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada

This isn't really a question about balancing races, more a complaint about not wanting to leave town to get food that isn't rat packs.


No. It is both. Unless a change is purely textual, it has the potential to affect balance. Would it be a huge change? I dunno, that depends on what's proposed.

As far as who stays in their hometown, that's an easy question. Any serious speed runner would rather not waste any stamina traveling that could be put toward hunting. If you have a nice steak at home, as Mutants and Kittymorphs do, why leave?


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Count Sessine
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 04:12 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Bakemaster

As far as who stays in their hometown, that's an easy question. Any serious speed runner would rather not waste any stamina traveling that could be put toward hunting. If you have a nice steak at home, as Mutants and Kittymorphs do, why leave?

So, putting it another way, all speed runners tend to hang out near the good steaks. If they're Mutants or Kittymorphs they can visit the dojo every level; if they're some other race, well, the masters just have to come to them every two levels. A good hometown restaurant gives a slight racial advantage to Mutants and Kittymorphs in speed running, but not a huge one.

Not just speed runners, either. You want to see where people spend their time, look at the strength of the walls in each outpost.* The numbers fluctuate but there are three distinct groups:

Pleasantville, Kittania - absurdly high
AceHigh, NewHome, Squat Hole, Improbable Central - 3 to 10 million
New Pittsburgh, CC404 - usually under 2 million

If it weren't for questing, NP and CC404 would surely be even worse off. And IC is on the edge, maybe belongs in the bottom group.

The interesting question is, why is AH in the middle group, and not at the bottom? I have some guesses, but I'd like to hear other people's ideas first.

* The walls are an indicator because people are not rushing in a panic anymore to shore up the walls of every outpost that's getting low. They're going about their business, maybe making a special trip once in a while to take care of an outpost that's their clan's responsibility, but usually just using up any spare stamina on reinforcement wherever they happen to find themselves. Unless there's an urgent reason, why waste stamina on travel there and back? So the walls show where, on average, people are spending their time.


 
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Marly
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 04:45 AM UTC  
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Ada: You're absolutely right, that is what I'm saying. Marly and I are lazy beyond belief. Why travel? I don't spend all my time in AceHigh--I'm not a speed runner, I'm just concerned about outpost levels. 404 is another problem spot; it's even further away from Pleasantville. I don't want to think about the number of New Days I've sunken into an outpost for lack of better food, just to get the job done. I have this sad obsession with walls and alert levels--I won't leave my Favorite Outposts to fall or be threatened.

Yes, a restaurant would change the way things are right now, Bakemaster; does that mean it would be a bad change? I can't see Jokers getting much of a benefit from having a restaurant whose usefulness is on the same scale as, say, NewHome's.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 04:58 AM UTC  
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In reply to Sessine, I would guess that there are quite a few people who don't tend to leave their own outpost so much, or prefer to level up in the dojo when they can, rather than waiting to go up two at a time. People who are well known on the failboat might do this, I believe that you lose rather more exp if you're significantly over the amount needed for your next level up.

I suspect that there are significantly more people who play Jokers than zombies, they seem to be the most interesting to play. Zombies aren't particularly good for speed runs or req hunts or anything else, they're all rounders really aren't they? And they're boring to role play really, say BRRRAAAAIIIINNNNSSSS a lot and that's it.

So that's my idea, more people playing Jokers close to home. Don't really know though.

I have vaguely thought about playing a zombie and making them middle class types. Have cultural evenings, concerts by Pavarotti and a few other bits and pieces. It's not going to happen in the foreseeable future though.


 
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Ada
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 03:47 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Bakemaster

Quote by: Ada

This isn't really a question about balancing races, more a complaint about not wanting to leave town to get food that isn't rat packs.


No. It is both. Unless a change is purely textual, it has the potential to affect balance. Would it be a huge change? I dunno, that depends on what's proposed.

As far as who stays in their hometown, that's an easy question. Any serious speed runner would rather not waste any stamina traveling that could be put toward hunting. If you have a nice steak at home, as Mutants and Kittymorphs do, why leave?



...who speedruns on a mutant?


Sessine: I imagine it has something to do with the fact that AceHigh isn't as seriously far away as Cyb or NP. Also, I know for me at least, I do more reinforcing when I'm roleplaying, and wanting to use up stamina - and I see more rp in AH than NP or Cyb, usually. And if it's my first day as a level 1 joker, and it's a bleeding-from-the-eyeballs-can't-walk kind of day, I'll blow the whole thing on reinforcing, rather than bothering to do anything else with all the debuffs.
If I get a nasty day at any other point in a run, I'll dump my stamina into whatever outpost I am. Which is almost never AceHigh. Because it hasn't got any food.

Hairy Mary: If you did that, I would seriously consider running zombie for a while. I am not sure how I would justify this to Ada, but somehow I would manage.


 
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Ebenezer
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 04:27 PM UTC  
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I like the idea of having more pubs - especially if they have specialty drinks that are unique to each Outpost. (Really, I would prefer not having new ones at all if they were all just like the PSK).

Maybe the first new pubs could be placed in less-popular Outposts like New Pittsburgh and CC404 to encourage traffic there (and maybe the walls can benefit from it!)

I also very much like the idea of food (or snack food, maybe) being served in pubs. However if that ruins the point of some Outposts having restaurants and some not, then I can understand that too.


 
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Bakemaster
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 04:37 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

The interesting question is, why is AH in the middle group, and not at the bottom? I have some guesses, but I'd like to hear other people's ideas first.


Jokers are the last race to be unlocked, and so are naturally seen as the "best" race before even considering their considerable capabilities. Jokers are popular among more active players. Robots no doubt would be quite popular as well, if not for the relative difficulty of managing their particular racial ability, the extraordinary defense debuff, and the incredible expense of healing yourself with boosted HP. Jokers also afford lazy RPers the luxury of being able to justify pretty much any action with the IIsland equivalent of "a wizard did it" (no offense to any present). I think the reason AH's walls are always pretty strong is basically a combination of the popularity of Jokers and the higher likelihood that someone with 12+ DKs will be thinking about using up their orange stamina reinforcing every day, compared to your average newly-minted zombie who's still spending a lot of time reading up on the Fourth Wall.

Marly: I don't think any restaurant would be a bad change, but I do think that a restaurant comparable to the one in Pville would be a bad change. As I said, it depends exactly what's in the restaurant. (I would elaborate but I have to run!)


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Marly
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 06:52 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Bakemaster



Marly: I don't think any restaurant would be a bad change, but I do think that a restaurant comparable to the one in Pville would be a bad change. As I said, it depends exactly what's in the restaurant.



I still don't see how that would be a bad change, but alright. Here we go.

I never said it would be comparable to Pleasantville, or that it should be. I said "a restaurant" and "food." Pleasantville has the best steaks; let them keep it. But something is better than the nothing AceHigh currently has. If we're going to get pubs in every outpost, why not some food (of various/dubious quality) while we're at it? That was my whole point. I'm sure there's a way to do it without upsetting the racial balances, such as they are; perhaps it would create a new balance. I wouldn't know, I've not looked at it, nor do I particularly care to. Including more pubs would change the dynamics, whether or not they serve food; I imagine that there's quite a few players who only go to Imp Central for the pub, hats, and tattoos. Would this mean that fewer people go to Imp Central? Probably not, if each pub were different, just like each restaurant is.

I want to see new pubs, because I want to see how it would be different, how it would change things. I think it might be more fun that way.


 
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Bakemaster
 Monday, February 08 2010 @ 08:37 PM UTC  
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The only thing I really object to in this conversation is the idea that adding pubs has nothing to do with balance. I don't see that you've made such a claim, so it seems we're talking at cross-purposes here. Let's call a truce.


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Cousjava
 Thursday, March 18 2010 @ 10:50 PM UTC  
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I support tea.

"At the center of an uncertain and possibly illusory universe, there would always be tea." - And Another Thing, Book VI in the Trilogy of Five.

That is why we must have tea. What is improbable island if not uncertain, and possibly illusory?


A table, a chair, a bowl of fruit and a trombone; what else does a man need to be happy?
 
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Hairy Mary
 Friday, March 19 2010 @ 02:34 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Cousjava


What is improbable island if not uncertain, and possibly illusory?



Are you... are you trying to suggest that Improbable Island might not be true reality? Eek!

*Has to sit down to recover from such a radical idea.*


 
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Cousjava
 Friday, March 19 2010 @ 05:55 PM UTC  
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Are you... are you trying to suggest that Improbable Island might not be true reality?

*Has to sit down to recover from such a radical idea.*


I said possibly. What is reality? I'll know whether the island is illusory once I find out what reality is.



*The fourth wall comes down. I'm not sure what reality is, even OOC.*

**The being behind the fith wall with a sledgehammer decides not to break it down...yet. He thinks he's in control**

***The being behind the SIXTH wall laughs at the person inf front of him he know's he's in control***

****Laughter is heard behind the seventh wall****


A table, a chair, a bowl of fruit and a trombone; what else does a man need to be happy?
 
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Mr Geppetto
 Friday, March 19 2010 @ 08:24 PM UTC  
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Walls 8 to 11734 smirk.

Pubs. I love pubs. More pubs. Better. Competition? Should drive prices down? Or, at least, improve service or something?
More pubs should be a good thing. Pubs. I love pubs.

Wall 11735 disagrees, being a teetotaler.

More pubs though. Brilliant idea. Where do I sign?


 
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