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nude b
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 12:15 PM UTC  
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Perhaps a player based chat quest?

here is my idea for that quest (in newhome)

"I have a problem -- I hope you can help me with" (NPC) explains the problem; but you cannot solve it alone. If you talk with other contestants maybe they can help. Then mayve he will give you a few req (or whatnot).
[advice on rp]


chat with key rp's and they notice you don't have the badge. -- they do something. the distaction says --hey you can finish the quest

"Wow, thanks I feel better now" [prize]


 
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Cousjava
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 03:17 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Reverb

*hands Skidge a potato peeler*



Surely that would long, slow and messy? A knife would be much quicker.

The thing to remember is that the lightweight chatter we see a great deal of is mostly NOT out of character. People have been pretty good about keeping OOC stuff to L4. These are characters, not players, interacting socially. And the conversation can turn dramatic, can become a story, can be a turning point in a character's life... at a moment's notice.


That's what happens. Just saying hello can start a conversation going which could lead anywhere. An idle comment, even if no-one else immediatly responds, could start somthing for someone else. I mean, for me, the whole idea for me looking a bit like a chimney (which I am NOT) came from someone else poking a chimney and being disapointed tht it didn't bite back.

A situation that might arise. Player A and player B role playing away. A has to suddenly leave, so they leave a quick note in OOC area saying "whoops got to go, should be back in an hour" or some such. B has the OOC turned off, or just isn't paying any attention to it and doesn't notice. So we'll still end up with fourth wall references and so on in the IC area, although probably less of them.


But in the current system, if Player A was clever, he'd make his leaving a part of the roleplay, but still teminates it. Something perhaps along the lines of "Player A is surpirsed when the grounf opens up under his feat. He falls into a deep hole. His distant screams can be heard for a breif time, then cut off sharply."

Which makes it obvious that Player A isn't around for carrying on the scene just then. This is also when distractions are useful, so Player A can distract Player B OOC to say that he has been called away, but will be back in, say half an hour. Or same time next day. This is also when the coloured line at th start of the chat is useful, becuase it tells you if the person you're talking to is still there.

I don't think there should be a new OOC chat area. Just make L4 better for OOC comments. Also something to encourage rookies to talk, in character. I myself am fairly new (Not even 10 DKs yet) but I already roleplay and don't feel anything wrong in saying something. Quite often it might only be a hello message, but it is still there in case someone else wants to talk to me. If someone else responds, then I will talk to them for a while.


A table, a chair, a bowl of fruit and a trombone; what else does a man need to be happy?
 
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Zolotisty
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 03:44 PM UTC  
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Chiming in a bit later than usual --

I'm opposed to this. I've always sort of been opposed to it, and my rationale largely stems from aesthetic concerns. There is simply not enough room in our relatively narrow, column-based layout to run an OOC chat concurrent to an IC chat. I suspect we will end up reducing the available space for all commentary by adding, um, more noise and less signal in many places. Too much clutter in our actual site design, too much clutter in our actual chats. Friends I've referred to the game in the past have gone, readers all of them and none daunted by too much text, have gone, 'What the fuck are all these links, wh- what- where am I supposed.. what am I doing here Z.' I think dual commentary chat space is likely to aggravate that problem, not mitigate it.

It seems like a solution proposed by someone who doesn't actually spend time chatting on the Island, and who won't have to work around the implementation. Wink And I say that gently and with love.

Now. That said, I may be visualizing the proposed dual-commentary system in some TOTALLY OUTLANDISH BEARS ON BICYCLES OH MY GOODNESS sort of way and my suspicions are only suspicions.

Conceptually, I think more OOC chat is not only a good thing but absolutely necessary to the overall growth of the community. When I proposed Location Four's existence, I'd expected and hoped that it would be used for an OOC hang-out place, simply because the people who aren't antisocial and who aren't roleplayers do need some place to go and hang out. Some clans in some ways address this problem, but a clan's only as good as the people in it, and if you find yourself among folks who aren't as active or as talkative as you are, well. Probably, there goes your opportunity with the site.

So...

I guess, I am going to frown thoughtfully in the background and abstain with my vote until I see how it's going to be implemented.


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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Zolotisty
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 05:27 PM UTC  
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Scratch that, I'm not abstaining. Let's assume this will be going in as a new feature, shall we? I'm going to kick and scream about columns the entire way, but I'm going to kick and scream in a productive 'here's a counter-proposal for implementation' sort of way.

We hates this version, precious:



We hates it because it is ugly, because it clutters, because it affords everyone in both chatspaces less space to talk. People have to travel backward to figure out what's going on. It creates a billion OOC chatspaces that might not be populated -- IC chat in satellite Outposts like New Pittsburgh sometimes lingers for a few days before someone comes in to add something new, I can't imagine it would be any better for OOC commentary. It diverts attention and makes it harder to figure out what's going on.

Instead, I propose this:



Reasons why I feel this is better:

- One highly accessible, highly visible OOC chatspace means (I believe) we are actually going to create an OOC community in the game, rather than small pockets of people who already know each other who are chatting in a scene they're already participating in. I think it's crucial to avoid linking OOC chat to IC spaces. That will only create additional divisions, and it will also breed cliques.

- Better use of available page space. I'm aware we've only got extra vertical space because of the Project Wonderful ads, but this sort of chat could even be placed into an iframe visible on every page of the site, so that you can gameplay in one frame --
Jungle fight, even -- and go chat in the other.

- Outposts and in-game spaces REMAIN in-game spaces foremost; you don't break the fourth wall by slapping OOC stuff right next to IC stuff. People who don't want to deal with OOC chat can just avoid scrolling all the way down.

- More chatspace for both OOC and IC interaction if it's not in a column.

I think that's it for reiteration? Anyway, this. This is my vote.


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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Skidge
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 05:36 PM UTC  
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Eek!

I like that second one.

I would like it a lot better if I had the option to turn it off, can that be done? I already hit refresh um, a lot to see what people have said during a scene, and the less scrolling, the better. I like the idea of an OOC chat, don't get me wrong,I said that already; I would just like to be able to toggle back and forth based on mood and level of sociability and well, all sorts of reasons.

And jeez, yeah, the less things showing up on an Island screen the first time around, confusing the almighty out of a fresh baby rook, the better. It is a delicate line to tread; you want to socialize the rooks, but you don't want to scare them off.


 
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Anonymous: dex
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 06:07 PM UTC  


From the comments so far I'm... confused? It feels like it could become a potentially divisive situation which will raise issues re which type of text goes in which space.

Is it strictly OOC? or a mix?

In-character casual conversation, hanging out, silly chatter (or whatever you call it) is precisely how all my IC relationships have started. How else am I going to meet other chars (and vice versa) in order to start developing actual stories? And I don't want them to meet me I want them to meet dex, right?

And what Sess said about how stories interweave.
And what Z said. I don't want to give up any viewable screen space for it, thanks.

Curious what the non-speaking / RPing 90% would say re why the don't speak. And what they want/need? They won't be on this forum responding, I would guess?


 
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Zolotisty
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 06:24 PM UTC  
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Quote by: dex

From the comments so far I'm... confused? It feels like it could become a potentially divisive situation which will raise issues re which type of text goes in which space.

Is it strictly OOC? or a mix?

In-character casual conversation, hanging out, silly chatter (or whatever you call it) is precisely how all my IC relationships have started. How else am I going to meet other chars (and vice versa) in order to start developing actual stories? And I don't want them to meet me I want them to meet dex, right?

And what Sess said about how stories interweave.
And what Z said. I don't want to give up any viewable screen space for it, thanks.

Curious what the non-speaking / RPing 90% would say re why the don't speak. And what they want/need? They won't be on this forum responding, I would guess?



My understanding of the situation is this: current IC chat wouldn't change much or at all. The hypothetical OOC chatspace being proposed is one that would create a place for people in the community who don't roleplay and don't particularly want to roleplay to go to socialize. (Those like Epaphus who don't want to socialize at all can.. go on not socializing at all!) This is not a chatspace being developed to address a need within the roleplaying community on the Island, which is well-represented and pretty well catered to, all things considered.

Instead, it would create a place for people to talk and interact without having to worry about a character at all. Just, "hey, I play this game and I like it -- and you do too, so clearly you must be clever and not easily offended and possessed of a good sense of humor, so let's chat!" Those people currently don't have a place to talk on the Island, unless it's within a very specific sort of clan (and even that's speculation).

For the version I proposed, I reckon it'd turn out a lot like a public room IRC chat. People with a common interest in the same place. People popping in and out, people occasionally asking mechanical questions or remarking on scenes or site dev or whatever, people making friends.

But yeah. ... It'd be awfully nice if some of the folk whose needs aren't being addressed would step in here and say whether they'd find this useful. I see feedback from roleplayers only, which is to be expected because roleplayers are historically and presently the most active group within the community who give dev feedback. But, roleplayers aren't the primary audience. If you don't want someone to meet you, then don't chat OOC. Just roleplay. And vice versa.

Dan, correct me if I'm wrong!


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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SicPuess
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 07:09 PM UTC  
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I have a couple of, as-usual, mostly unintelligible thoughts on this.

First: I wouldn't mind a toggle switch between OOC and IC chat next to each other. However, default side-by-side (as illustrated above) is not going to work on a screen that is not both wide and big (read: not a laptop as I usually use it).

Second: I would like to keep scrolling to a minimum! Maybe chatspace lenght could be an user-preference - I'd leave the IC chatspace as it is, and limit the OOC chat below (or above? By preference too?) to, say, five or ten lines, depending on how long the average comment ends up to be. I would not like two regular-sized chatspaces atop each other.

Third: It's unclear as to how much use the OOC chatspace would see. It could be several dozen people being active there all at once, it could end up like L4. Anyways, I just want to throw out that maybe the chat could be implemented on every single page - with a toggle for showing, so that it won't eat up ressources while not actually used. Though it may as well be that one single chatspace doesn't work due to usage.

Fourth: I'm going to assume that it's going to BE implemented in the one or other form. So, scrap L4, one less link on the left.

Fifth: Statistics. What went into the figures there? I don't know about the turnover rate. So, are accounts that haven't been logged into more than once included in the figures?

Six: Off-topic side-thought concerning turn-over. The FAQ is out-dated. The Basic Training is... well, complicated? An option to list all the yet-unread topics might be helpful?


 
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Anonymous: Guessed
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 07:54 PM UTC  


Of Zol's two options, I also much prefer the second one.

You might want to make the font of the lower one a bit smaller and easier to read though, cause .... oh ... never mind. Big Grin


Are these two options the ... options?


 
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Lucid
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 08:18 PM UTC  
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Hi,

I'm part of the Silent Majority. I don't RP much, I don't say much in chats.
The reasons for this are
a) I'm lazy and couldn't be bothered to invent a new persona
b) I enjoy beating the crap out of monsters way too much (that's also why, if I say anything at all, it usually is on the Failboat - nothing else to do after you're done with the cages)
c) I often run into a scene, and while I enjoy reading it, it doesn't make me want to jump into a conversation and potentially disturb what's happening.
d) I'm also quite shy.

I'm not quite sure whether a new chatspace would change any of that, but I guess not - I've probably been too long around already. I'm not saying it's a bad idea though, depending on how it's implemented.



 
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Cousjava
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 08:32 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Zolotisty


Those like Epaphus who don't want to socialize at all can.. go on not socializing at all!)



Then how come I saw him in the pub last Friday night, and if what he was doing isn't socialising...


A table, a chair, a bowl of fruit and a trombone; what else does a man need to be happy?
 
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Double Double
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 09:04 PM UTC  
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As a new guy, L4 is pretty helpful. Please keep it. It's also nice to have it be somewhere else, there's enough going on in one screen (for newbies) that adding more is only going to be more.. dazzling to us new people.


 
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Ada
 Sunday, May 30 2010 @ 10:30 PM UTC  
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I don't like the idea of a new chatspace at all, for precisely the reason Z suggested. There is too much on the damn page already. Splitting it horizontally would be awful; splitting it vertically only marginally less so.
But if you take it off the main chat page itself, it isn't going to be any more useful than distractions.

What I'd really like to see is a live chat - IRC style or whatever - linked to, very obviously, at the top of the screen, and also with another "hey guys check out the OOC chatroom" in Location Four. Then everyone can participate in OOC chat regardless of where they are on the island. If it gets too gigantically unwieldy as a single chatroom (I'm sure it will), you could split them up by theme (Need Help, RP Chat, Outpost-based, whatever).


Honestly though, I think most of your statistic stems from the fact that the game does not give you any idea of what it is when you start. You have to sign up to find out anything about it.The wiki is completely unhelpful if you're looking for anything about the game itself (this actually nearly caused me to walk away from the game before I even started, but that's something else entirely), the story at the beginning does not give you a ton of hints, and the forums and FAQ aren't that helpful either, if you're just trying to figure out what it is that you do in this game before you play.
So, you type in a name, and you sign up. And then you find out that you don't really think this game is so cool, and you leave. I'm actually surprised that 1 in 10 people say hello, because I assume that every other person makes a character and then realizes the game isn't for them.
I signed up, and I kept playing, because I thought the flavour text was hilarious, and because there were awesome people doing fun rp and saying hi to rookies when I walked in to NewHome. But I read damn fast, can figure out how to play a game without having to read the manual, and was greeted by good rp.
If I were a slow reader, or was one of those people who feel they need to read everything before they start, or walked into regular NH rp ("I am in love with EVERY BOY!!" or "The Drive turned me into this awesome thing look!!" or whatever), I would have been one of your 9 in 10.

I do think that an OOC chatroom would be great, seeing as Loc4 tends to be used for gameplay help only, but I don't find this 1 in 10 figure all that alarming. You have to sign up to find out almost anything about the game, so naturally there are going to be a great deal of people who sign up and go "huh. Well, actually, I have something else I'd rather do today."


 
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Ada
 Monday, May 31 2010 @ 12:16 AM UTC  
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(Sorry, post can't be edited anymore, so I have to double.)

I did some thinking about all of the people I have invited to play on the island: a total of 7. 6 of them signed up, and only one of them is still playing.
Here are the reasons:
One person said something to the effect of "I'm not really into this. I keep getting beaten up by kitchen appliances."
One person was put off by the fact that the Island flavour text can get pretty gross.
One person is not really into text games. He figured he'd try it anyway, because I said it was fun, but didn't like it.
One person loved the game, but realized she didn't have enough time for it. (She'd get addicted and stop doing things like papers.)
One person tried roleplaying for a while, with my help and encouragement, but in the end decided that she preferred playing games "where you don't have to pretend to be someone else". She didn't feel that the gameplay itself was compelling enough to get her to stay.

One person joined, met some awesome roleplayers, joined DICE, and became a site supporter.


None of those losses would have been solved by having OOC chat available.

I am not against having OOC chat. But I don't think it's going to solve the issue you hope it will, CMJ.


 
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Zolotisty
 Monday, May 31 2010 @ 12:34 AM UTC  
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Visualization for another hypothetical option -- again, site-wide access that's obviously available, opt-in / opt-out, and easily ignored if you don't want it. Naturally, if something like this were actually implemented, it would look a hell of a lot nicer than three minutes' work in Photoshop.

Minimized:



Maximized:


BARK BARK BARK.
 
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Jon Bishop
 Monday, May 31 2010 @ 01:13 AM UTC  
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Hmm. A real out of character chat would be good for a lot of things. I have mixed feelings, though.(Like I do on EVERY subject...) I feel like my character in the game developed the way he did because of those clueless moments when I started playing and had absolutely no idea what I was doing. I don't think my character would've developed as naturally if I had some sort of out of character chat as a clutch. BUT, not everyone roleplays, so I think out of character chat would be a great way for the entire community to be somewhat more united. I like Zolo's most recent photoshop of the concept, I think that would work rather nicely.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, May 31 2010 @ 01:25 AM UTC  
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Very quick reply on my phone - the one in ten statistics is based on live, current players. ajax chat is hopefully coming soon in all channels, that's one of the reasons I'm rewriting chat. dual channel can be enabled or disabled at will.


 
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Xith
 Monday, May 31 2010 @ 01:46 AM UTC  
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Honestly, I like that last one you just posted the best.

I have a bit to add on this subject though. If we made the chat way super high tech, it would really make it hard to play on a mobile device. for instance, I don't always have access to the computer in my house, as other members of my family like to use the internet too, so I often play on my Nintendo DSi, using the web function. In fact, that's why my RP posts can be slow coming sometimes, 'cuz I'm relegated to that Wink.

The way Improbable Island is right now, it's very friendly to my DSi and with a metronome I can even get pretty nice chains in timed fighting. The most annoying thing is probly having to scroll through however many lines of chat to get to the bottom when I want to RP. It would be awesome if there was an option to set the number of lines you want displayed, so I don't have to load and scroll through all of it every time I wanna say something.

I also fear that having OOC chat if done in a column way down below the other one, would be another nightmare of scrolling, unless you make it smaller. Also, if it's island wide, I imagine it getting absurdly over populated with people (particularly if it's open to rookies) at certain times of the day/days of the week, to the point where it would be impossible to carry on a conversation discussing your RP scene, in, say, Kittania while a dozen rookies in Newhome are all asking "Where's Kittania,? and How do you find the improbability drive?, and How do I change race?, and How do I change race to kittymorph? and, once they get to kittymorph, How much do I have to eat to get rid of the slender debuff?" (Seriously, I'm tired of people asking about kittymorphs.. I don't think I ever did. I've already decided now that Xith will never ever be a kittymorph.) Newhome OOC will most likely end up being the Q&A place that L4 is right now, and L4 can end up being the outpost spanning chat it should be, IMO, with the other outpost chatspaces being better for discussing how a scene should go, or clarifying things (Like maybe telling someone to leave you alone for now instead of your characters just plain ignoring them when they barge in accidentally on a scene.)

Those are some of my fears/hopes/dream/ravings. I doubt I'm a typical Island denizen, and I'm not a super roleplaying obsessed person (This game is honestly the first time I've roleplayed seriously. Even though I play D&D sometimes, I do it more for fun than serious-have-to-act-in-character-every-single-moment, but here, I try to do it "seriously".) and I do like most of the facets of the game, both RP and Gameplay. If I didn't, I probly wouldn't still be here. A game, first and foremost, needs to be treated as a game, and if the gameplay really really isn't enjoyable at all for me, nothing's gonna save it, whether it be graphics, comedy, or story(Though story's a close second to gameplay for me). I'm happy to say that this game's playing experience is actually alot of fun for me, and I love how open the forums and the game itself is for contribution, and also how open and friendly the playerbase is.

Anywho, TL;DR, I think it's a good idea if it can be implemented in a way that doesn't screw my DSi over too bad and isn't island wide, and is explained better the first time somebody joins so they don't go "WTF, where should I type". EDIT: by island wide, I mean a single channel for the whole island.

Ima shut up now.

another EDIT! I need to post faster :/ Two people posted while I was typing....


 
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Skidge
 Monday, May 31 2010 @ 07:30 AM UTC  
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*cough* Rumors about unauthorized library card usage, i.e. sharpened for use as impromptu weaponry, is purely conjecture on Z's part and I resemble, I mean resent, the implication that I in any way, shape or form trend towards violence when dealing with librarians who lie about people and fire them for doing their jobs and throw out books to make room for flatscreen TVs, FLATSCREEN TVS IT'S ENOUGH TO MAKE ME WANT TO...

*cough*

Aaaaaaaaanyway. In regards to the actual, you know, topic of the thread, that is precisely what I was going on about in my own rambling way...togglin'.

Right handy, that would be.

And I happen to think that having an OC chat would be really cool, if only because there are days that I happen to not feel particularly Skidgeous. There are days I want to just be me, chatting like a fiend with the people on the Island I don't ordinarily get to talk to. Re: the question of whether or not it will get used? I'm willing to bet it will. During scenes, it'll provide a certain insight into some of the wacky shenanigans that go on behind the scenes (oh, such wacky shenanigans, you wouldn't believe), and on slow days, it'll provide another, less restricted way to socialize.

Ehn, I've more opinions to put forth, and probably I will (so in love with the clattering of my keys am I!).


 
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Amerithe
 Monday, May 31 2010 @ 08:06 AM UTC  
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Got a couple thoughts here, most of which are just votes, really.

The double wide chatspace would work ok on my monitor, as it's wide, but on my laptop it'd suck. Longer posts would take up quite a few rows, and even with the dates turned to time elapsed, it's still bulky at half the width for a chatspace. Adding it at the bottom would be better, but still unwieldy. Also, if I weren't paying attention, I might overshoot scrolling and post in the wrong space. Not good.

Even if you add the OOC space in outposts, I think Location 4 should remain, I do like occasionally dropping in to answer questions, and learn a new thing or two. If it's scrapped in favor of outpost specific spaces, questions will get asked more repeatedly, I think, because the answer given in another outpost won't be visible to another. If the idea was one island-wide space, then it's basically Location 4 in the outpost itself, which seems weird. I dunno which was the idea, I'm sorry if I'm being redundant, I never can tell if thoughts I have already occurred to someone.

I asked a friend of mine about why he never roleplayed, I referred him myself, he was in my clan, but has largely quit, and his account will probably expire soon. I asked why he didn't roleplay, and if an OOC space were added into each outpost, would he have made use of it. His response was "most of the time when it comes to a forum style role play i don't join in because i don't know how to enter it without seeming horribly awkward. as for the chat spaces it would depend upon how the chat system is set up. if it's set up to stream like irc, then possibly. if it's set up like twitter, not at all." His two big problems seemed to be the time lapsing between reloads of a chatspace, and the small character limit, which is rather strange as he never really seemed to post. I admit I'd like a live chat, remembering to refresh sometimes eludes me. Also the amount of time it takes to catch up which what's happened between refreshes puts me farther behind once I get the text loaded back up. But that's another matter, mainly.

I LOVE Z's idea of the little expandable thing at the bottom, although I don't know how it'll translate into a mobile format. So far, otherwise, I see the least drawbacks to this idea. It wouldn't give as much trouble with scrolling down as two chatspaces arranged vertically, but without the side to side cramping of arranging them horizontally. Admittedly, I have NO idea how hard it'd be to make, but it's still a pleasing idea.

I'll try to direct a couple more non-roleplayers this way for commentary, in the meantime.

Personally, I started out roleplaying in my usual way, charging in being just outrageous enough to get attention but not so blatant as to aggravate, and proceeded to attempt to get on the good side of anyone walking by. Then I got burnt out on a level that took me three weeks to beat, and dropped off the map. Since then I have a hard time just because there's either a scene going on that I have nothing to add to, or no one will respond to me, or notice me. I'd rather not just shove my way into people's conversations, especially the more SRS BZNS ones, or romantic ones.. but I also don't want to play by myself, and I dislike interfering with random chatter when someone's doing something important, or even 'important'.

Apparently I'm tired, I don't usually go on so much until my inhibitions start to shut down.. Gonna stop now. Yeah.


 
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