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Twosocks Monkey
 Tuesday, December 06 2011 @ 12:26 PM UTC  
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Custom Race?

I peeked in today and saw the new interface, YAY!

And then I had one little question.

Is custom race totally gone forever?

Just curious. It was useful...but also was Mary Sue Prone...but useful....I was using it...but now it seems to be gone.

moo?

-Rose


moooooooooo Visit and help me finish the monster list: goo.gl/rpBGe (Ya'll mostly know me as CLOG, fyi)
 
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Count Sessine
 Tuesday, December 06 2011 @ 05:56 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe


And I, meanwhile, will be wringing my hands and going "But I love these guys, how can I leave them wailing and gnashing their teeth like that..." and trying my hardest to keep up the illusion of being a total bastard. Smile

Me, I'm predicting a lot less wailing and gnashing than CMJ is expecting, counterbalanced by a whole lot of "Woo! So clean, so beautiful! What I always wanted but didn't dream was possible!" We'll see who's right. Mr. Green

In the meantime... I expect people's questions about the new system will be:

1. A handful of outright bugs that interfere with game-play or strand players. These, as we know from past experience with CMJ's big features, will be fixed ASAP. (Anyone who got caught in a bio last night, petition and a mod will rescue you.)

2. "Wait for it, it's coming." What we see now is just the core system. There are other pieces planned.

3. "Oops, I forgot about that bit... I mean, uh... I totally had that in my plan!" Not likely to be too many of these, but there might be a few.

4. "Suck it up, guys, this is how it's going to be." Most people will go, "Oh? All right then. Just asking. It might have been type 2 or 3 up there." This is Improbable Island, where ripples of change in the fundamental rules of the universe are explained by canon. We'll adapt. After a while, we won't want to go back!


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Tuesday, December 06 2011 @ 06:59 PM UTC  
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I like this.

It is a good thing.


"You saved Pineapple!"
 
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Anonymous: Artist+Dragon
 Tuesday, December 06 2011 @ 09:54 PM UTC  


Quote by: Twosocks+Monkey

Custom Race?

I peeked in today and saw the new interface, YAY!

And then I had one little question.

Is custom race totally gone forever?

Just curious. It was useful...but also was Mary Sue Prone...but useful....I was using it...but now it seems to be gone.

moo?

-Rose



nuuuuuuuu. not the custom race.

*goes into a corner and pouts*


 
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Matthew
 Tuesday, December 06 2011 @ 10:26 PM UTC  
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I'm liking the new system a whole lot. I don't even care about the lack of prefs.

I love how the clan tag is in the mouseover now. And that fucking eye icon is gone. The only thing I really 'miss' are the race icons but I'll deal with it.


 
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Sasha
 Tuesday, December 06 2011 @ 10:33 PM UTC  
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I don't forum much. I do not like to forum. It usually gets me in a bad mood. So I'm pretty sure this is going to be my first post, because this update made me forum.



Good: Looks cleaner, runs well. That I can see, anyway. The typing indicator in particular is much cleaner and doesn't make the page bounce around, and you no longer have to scroll around to participate in chat.


Neutral:
Mousing over character names is something I've mostly adjusted to. It'd be in the Good section if the mouseover could be more sensitive to where the cursor is and pop up a little to the right of it so it doesn't block you from moving up or down the characters in chat.

Talk To Me mode is going to be a good thing if people pay attention to it. There should probably be a thing in the Help text to indicate what color someone's status bar will be in each "mode" (AFK, DNI and TTM) so people can pick it up a little more quickly and report it sooner if it gets bugged for some reason (I recall there being an issue with the DNI mode for something similar?).


Bad:
Custom Races broke. Mouseover description always shows your game race.

Special comments don't work. (typing "*This is a special comment!" in chat makes your character say "*This is a special comment!")

Without zooming in the browser window, chat looks like text block(s) and is therefore difficult to read because WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU FOR OVER NINE THOUSAND! It's readable when zoomed in. It wouldn't be very hard to make the text and the line spacing slightly larger (I only really need to go 1 step in on Firefox, for example), would it?

On a related note, the shrinking of the chat space leaves a lot of empty space below it while the various things on the right side of the page continue to scroll for at least half again its length. This is a) slightly ugly and b) could be bad for the Kitty, which is left off the page if people don't scroll down, which they no longer have to do to participate in chat (see the "good" section).

The inability to hide or change male/female gender is outright unfriendly to people whose characters and/or Real Life selves live outside the artificial gender binary. Three potential solutions: 1) A Preference option (which you hate, I know, I'm sorry); 2) Make the gender text part of your Race and therefore modifyable/removable with a Race Changer; 3) Remove all gender checks from the game (would involve alteration of the code behind the kissing booth and the PSK flirting, which is something I'd like to see anyway). My preferred solution would be #1, but knowing that you hate that one, I prefer #2. #3 could work, but would make some things awkward, especially for the introduction of new players.




Phew. Okay, that's my 2 req. I hope someone manages to get something out of it.


EDIT: Will the ability to mouseover a Clan's acronym to see its full name be coming back? I kind of liked that.


 
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Sasha
 Tuesday, December 06 2011 @ 10:38 PM UTC  
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Oh, also, there's no ability to mouseover someone's status bar and see what its color means anymore. The ability to do so is kind of handy for new players (I'd imagine) and for me. I hope it comes back.


 
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Sasha
 Tuesday, December 06 2011 @ 11:21 PM UTC  
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And since it's been too long to just edit this into my other two posts:

Auto update is silently (no "Auto-update has timed out..." message) failing very frequently since I got on today, and I'm almost certain this update is to blame somehow. I'm not the only one. It is unrelated to any actual time-out, since it usually hits me less than a minute after I post something to chat.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 12:37 AM UTC  
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Specials and custom races will be fixed tonight or tomorrow.

Quote by: Sasha

The inability to hide or change male/female gender is outright unfriendly to people whose characters and/or Real Life selves live outside the artificial gender binary



We've had this conversation before over on Labs, and the outcome was that it can't change until Season Three at the earliest. The binary gender shit is just way too ingrained in the old, old, old core engine, and if we're gonna support a third gender option, we'll be doing so in a way that works with the core.

(as in, the core when I scrap the whole lot and rewrite from scratch)


 
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CavemanJoe
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 12:49 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Sasha

And since it's been too long to just edit this into my other two posts:

Auto update is silently (no "Auto-update has timed out..." message) failing very frequently since I got on today, and I'm almost certain this update is to blame somehow. I'm not the only one. It is unrelated to any actual time-out, since it usually hits me less than a minute after I post something to chat.



Clear your cache.


 
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Matthew
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 01:44 AM UTC  
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Re: gender, even just a third "it" option would be pretty welcome, I think. Make them pick male or female at the start (no matter how hard someone believes otherwise, you can't be an 'it' human) but I'd like the ability to be an androgynous robot.

edit, idea: maybe an option to flag your gender as hidden while using a custom race changer?

I forgot to mention: also loving how names are no longer underlined. I know it's a tiny little thing but it's something that's seriously bothered me since forever. If the underlines are something that you forgot and will be fixed later, then by all means keep forgetting. It seriously looks so much better without. Thank you.

edit: are avatars broken?

edit edit: no they aren't, but I found something else. Using the contestants list to search and then click a name strands you on a bio with no way out. If you hit the back button and then Refresh, it lets you out, but that's still a problem.


okay my cookies are goddamn crazy this message keeps getting edited all weird.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 03:04 AM UTC  
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Yeah, it's definitely been beaten to death in the old Labs forum that the gender binary will be gone, it just has to wait until Season 3. My personal preference on the stance is to simply never define the player's gender nor sexuality, only define that of the recipient NPCs of the various issues.

However that actually doesn't doesn't help my biggest gender nitpick:

One of the biggest problems with gender I find is when writing Monster Submissions. I can't ever assume the reader is one gender or the other (or something else altogether), which lend to [color=indigo]archaic language[/color] ("[u]One[/u] doesn't like to pick sides..."), [color=indigo]plural pronouns[/color] on a singular subject ("A person can pick whichever one [u]they[/u] want..."), [color=indigo]cumbersome prose[/color] ("Whether [u]he or she[/u] prefers, [u]he or she[/u] may choose whichever [u]he or she[/u] wishes..."), or [color=indigo]visually unattractive text[/color] ("[u](S)he[/u] will choose at character creation to be referred to as "[u]him/her[/u]"...").

And I have no idea whether people like using the hermaphroditic "hir", "shi", and all that other stuff I don't even know.

For me, I think Jungle Monster gender handling would be optimal by doing...

...wait for it...

...opt-in gender prefs.


+ Jungle fights that assume nothing about the player's gender are always active and not a pref.

+ You can check a box that says, "Allow Jungle Monsters to assume I'm Male". That means the player can now also fight monsters where the text somehow indicates the reader is Male. These jungle monsters are flagged "Appear for Male" behind the scenes.

+ You can check a box that says, "Allow Jungle Monsters to assume I'm Female". This does exactly the same as the Male version, for females.

And that's it. Players can check neither, or check both, or check one or the other. I'd prefer these were about gender pronouns though, as I don't intend on any Monster Submissions to refer to specific dangly-bit-possession. It's all just about gender pronouns.

And this problem could all be avoid if English had a gender-neutral pronoun that did not imply that the noun is an inanimate object. (That's not really a failing of English specifically--the vast majority of languages, I've been told, all fail this as well.)



...this thread is about the new commentary, Awesome Fred! FOCUS! Don't bother trying to read any secret message above, it's just gonna start another long discussion with a very high potential to get heated.

I have to concur with Matthew: the lack of underlines makes it all look a lot better. It stops separating the sentences into computer-y chat and makes it look like nice storybook writing.

To be frank, even though it would be a loss of Island income, maybe the time will come where messages by default will not have the player's name at the beginning, and everyone can flat-out make what special comments allow you to do. To an outsider, the current status of "Witch Doctor Makiwa does this. Witch Doctor Makiwa does that. Witch Doctor Makiwa does a loop-de-loop. Uncouth Ruffian Awesome Fred nods approvingly. Uncouth Ruffian says, "That was fairly gnarly." Etc.," looks a bit odd in a transcribed scene.

But look at me, getting a centimeter and asking for a kilometer. (That fulfills my International Awareness quota of the day.) And asking for something that I myself don't even bother participating in. Oh my hypocrisies, they number far beyond the stars.



Oh, by the way, CMJ, how easy/hard is it to work on modifying this forum system? I would really love to have a spoiler tag that hides text unless clicked to be revealed, since we're so prone to holding side discussions within a discussion thread.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 03:16 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred


Oh, by the way, CMJ, how easy/hard is it to work on modifying this forum system? I would really love to have a spoiler tag that hides text unless clicked to be revealed, since we're so prone to holding side discussions within a discussion thread.



It would be really great if we could ditch this godawful geeklog crap and get phpBB or IPB or something like that.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 03:43 AM UTC  
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Quote by: dizzyizzy

Quote by: Awesome+Fred


Oh, by the way, CMJ, how easy/hard is it to work on modifying this forum system? I would really love to have a spoiler tag that hides text unless clicked to be revealed, since we're so prone to holding side discussions within a discussion thread.



It would be really great if we could ditch this godawful geeklog crap and get phpBB or IPB or something like that.



One thing I like about this one (I don't know if it's standard in other forum systems) is that when I'm not logged in, and I hit "QUOTE" on a post to make a reply, it tells me that I need to log in first--but I can then hit log-in on the left sidebar, and it will refresh and give me the interface to write my reply, rather than bringing me back to the thread and making me press "QUOTE" again.

If I get to keep that ability, I think a new forum could also be in order. Though, of course, it has to also still look like this skin, since its consistency with the Island's skin is really nice.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 04:13 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred


...this thread is about the new commentary, Awesome Fred! FOCUS!



YES, DO THAT. Mr. Green


 
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Sasha
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 04:30 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Quote by: Sasha

And since it's been too long to just edit this into my other two posts:

Auto update is silently (no "Auto-update has timed out..." message) failing very frequently since I got on today, and I'm almost certain this update is to blame somehow. I'm not the only one. It is unrelated to any actual time-out, since it usually hits me less than a minute after I post something to chat.



Clear your cache.




I did read the MOTD. However, while Story's auto-update works fine, I haven't been in Story today, and Banter's auto-update has continued to silent-fail constantly (are these actually separate update engines? Heck if I know. I just know that auto-update works for story and fails for banter). Several other people mentioned that they had the same issue (basically everyone in Kittania who mentioned it at all). I've also seen occasions where Banter was hidden for inactivity while Story was open and merrily chugging along. Neutral

Someone did note that it seems to silent fail every 4 minutes and 30 seconds, regardless of your activity. I don't know if that info is useful or not.


 
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Sasha
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 05:10 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

Specials and custom races will be fixed tonight or tomorrow.

Quote by: Sasha

The inability to hide or change male/female gender is outright unfriendly to people whose characters and/or Real Life selves live outside the artificial gender binary



We've had this conversation before over on Labs, and the outcome was that it can't change until Season Three at the earliest. The binary gender shit is just way too ingrained in the old, old, old core engine, and if we're gonna support a third gender option, we'll be doing so in a way that works with the core.

(as in, the core when I scrap the whole lot and rewrite from scratch)




I didn't mean to beat a dead horse, sorry; and I was aware for some reason that the binary gender thing where it's related to NPCs, and to game mechanics like Dr Paprika's service, can't change this season. That's kind of why I would like and some players may need an option to hide it. Not being able to do so kind of messes with some people's roleplay. I also think making a stand on "you as a non-binary gendered/ally player must wait until whenever Season Three comes out to feel more OOCly welcome on the Island" is a ... questionable... decision. Neutral I understand why a lot of the preferences need to go, but gender identity isn't exactly on the same level of personal, social or political heat as weapon/armor displays and the like.

Plus, if even you admit that it's a clunky, inflexible, and socially broken aspect of the game (which I think everyone here can agree is very much a social game), I doubly fail to understand the logic behind not allowing it to be hidden.




P.S. I understand and respect your intent to absolutely refuse to change anything that doesn't need an emergency "holy shit I broke the Island" fix before the new system has had a few weeks to sink in. I do think this is a hot enough issue to need a band-aid until Season Three once you're ready to start tinkering again, however.

P.P.S. Matthew: I do not like "It" - this term would apply exclusively to the nongendered, as in your example, and may be insulting to bigenders, androgynes, intersex, transgendered, and so on. If I were to pick a single gender option to add, it'd be "other"; no other single term applies to enough of the gender or even the sex spectrum. I can provide examples of how NPCs could react vaguely enough to cover most or all bases, yet specifically enough to feel they're talking to your character, if desired.)


 
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Sasha
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 05:17 AM UTC  
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I also have an update on the Banter timeouts: It's almost certainly a dual-channel issue. Banter auto-updates just fine when I close Story. Running it as the only channel for over half an hour I experienced 3 timeouts, each of which was reported ("Auto-update has timed out, etc"): i.e. the expected behavior.



EDIT!
Also,
1) the silent timeout takes 1 minute, sometimes less.
2) I just noticed the button to post with changes from "Speak" to "Emote" when you start typing something beginning with : . Neat! It took me this long because I always use the enter key.


 
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Lady Akitsu
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 06:08 AM UTC  
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I do have a question, though, about the new Commands. Fine, I hafta get used to using : instead of /me. That's okay. And / is used for commands, right? So what if you're in a Dwelling and the room you want to go to needs a PASSWORD to go through. Like, say... your bedroom. -.- OR THE REST OF YOUR HOUSE.

Help me out here, people.


 
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Harris
 Wednesday, December 07 2011 @ 07:00 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Sasha

I also think making a stand on "you as a non-binary gendered/ally player must wait until whenever Season Three comes out to feel more OOCly welcome on the Island" is a ... questionable... decision. Neutral I understand why a lot of the preferences need to go, but gender identity isn't exactly on the same level of personal, social or political heat as weapon/armor displays and the like.



Agreed on the principle of gender display importance being greater than arms and armor display importance, but from the technical aspect, did you know that CMJ has also said that preferences, as a whole, muck up the game?
Also- you jump straight to a "non-binary gendered/ally player must wait until Season Three to feel more OOCly welcome"? Why? This is the same game that has a foetid Midget brothel! In game IS insensitive- it's part of the point.
Out of game, what are you basing that claim on, exactly? I do not refer to indvidual players' actions, of course (sadly, dickheads happen); I mean how have you decided that the game is being run/programmed/written that way?


"Ain't nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile." -The Grateful Dead
 
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