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 Houses and Tents, again
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Neeip
 Friday, November 06 2009 @ 06:08 AM UTC  
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Quote by: James+Bond

Might I also add in a "Congratulations, Dan and Emily!!!"
Glad to hear of it!

Excited about housing, too, I must say!

Oh, and Neeip...

Quote by: Neeip

...Who wants to make a gaint fortress on the top of the mountain by 404 with me once this is finished?


I'm afraid my ex-ex-wife may already have first dibs up there with here Ice-Fortress. Any arguments may be taken up with her army of Snow-men.

Otherwise, would be happy to help!


Curses!
hmm.... I have a plan for a mountain wide fortress. Serveral people all build on each part of it, and the Top would be sort of like a private, Huge lodge kindof thing, accsessable to all of the other owners, but otherwise private...
With Snow-men guards, of course.
Basicly, we need the resources, and the manpower to do it, and all the help we can get.


 
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monsterzero
 Friday, November 06 2009 @ 06:09 AM UTC  
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Dude! Seriously, congratulations.

Pinche, it's a Personal Digital Assistant, like a Palm or a Crackberry.


 
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Aeridus
 Friday, November 06 2009 @ 06:14 AM UTC  
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Congratulations!! Big Grin Hopefully nobody will get extremely drunk at the reception and embarrass you. Wink

*builds his house on rock and roll*


 
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XaNe
 Friday, November 06 2009 @ 01:41 PM UTC  
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Yay! Congratulations Dan, and good luck!

In other news, I wouldn't mind helping Neeip, so long as he wouldn't mind helping me Razz


Some people see the glass as half full, some people see it as half empty, I just spit in the cup until it isn't a problem anymore.
 
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Pod
 Friday, November 06 2009 @ 04:05 PM UTC  
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Woo, yay Dan & Emily! Hope everything goes Improbably well today. And forever.


 
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Count Sessine
 Friday, November 06 2009 @ 04:37 PM UTC  
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Barn raising! As Z said to me yesterday, we are going to find out what it's like to be in a pioneer community that does barnraisings. I foresee this being very good, very good indeed!


 
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Pinche Cabron
 Saturday, November 07 2009 @ 02:25 PM UTC  
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One thing I certainly hope is that dwellings will be premium content reserved for those that support the site. Perhaps some the accoutrements can cost req or cigs, but this should be seen as major way to generate cash for CMJ, now that he is starting a family.

Before I get flamed for this, let me point out that, for those of you on limited budgets, if you want a house, you will find a way to come up with the money (distract me if you need ramen recipes). If you cannot, obviously you don't want a house that badly, nor do you really deserve one if you are unwilling to help II financially. Now, go ahead and flame away.

Oh, and Mě, I know what a PDA is. That was a joke. I just haven't heard anything called a PDA in a few years. I still have an antique Palm Pilot in a box somewhere.


 
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monsterzero
 Saturday, November 07 2009 @ 03:37 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Pinche+Cabron



Oh, and Mě, I know what a PDA is. That was a joke. I just haven't heard anything called a PDA in a few years. I still have an antique Palm Pilot in a box somewhere.



I figured it might be, but you know m0 tends to be overliteral. He'd make a pretty good robot, don't know why he hasn't done that yet.

The PDA thing reminds me of a new monster I was planning to suggest: PDA Couple. "You approach a clearing and suddenly hear soft moans and heavy breathing..." Victory message: "Get a room!"


 
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Fergus
 Saturday, November 07 2009 @ 05:24 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Pinche+Cabron

One thing I certainly hope is that dwellings will be premium content reserved for those that support the site. Perhaps some the accoutrements can cost req or cigs, but this should be seen as major way to generate cash for CMJ, now that he is starting a family.


If I remember right, Houses are intended for everyone while Tents will require mostly donator points. Tents would be fed 'slop' to grow and increase in size and buffs, and slop would mostly be gotten though DPs. Now, I don't know if this has changed since Tents were brought up, but I doubt it has.


 
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Count Sessine
 Saturday, November 07 2009 @ 06:48 PM UTC  
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Pinche, I disagree with the notion of making dwellings reserved premium content, and here's why: being able to get something as basic as a roof over the head should not depend on player affluence. It's fine if, in-game, the character has to scrimp and save and work long hours and call upon the help of his friends. That's all good, and will have a very positive effect on the social dynamics of the Island. Finally, there will be a way for characters to help other characters in a meaningful way! And it won't even unbalance the game.

But all that value would be short-circuited if the only way to get a dwelling was to buy it with real-world dollars. (Of course, having DPs will still help you get a dwelling faster; reqs and cigs are available in the Hunter's Lodge.)

Tents, now... tents are different. As I understand the concept, tents are going to be fun, a luxury, a fancy extra, a Cool Thing. Exactly the sort of thing that qualifies as premium content.


 
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Pinche Cabron
 Saturday, November 07 2009 @ 09:10 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Pinche, I disagree with the notion of making dwellings reserved premium content, and here's why: being able to get something as basic as a roof over the head should not depend on player affluence. It's fine if, in-game, the character has to scrimp and save and work long hours and call upon the help of his friends. That's all good, and will have a very positive effect on the social dynamics of the Island. Finally, there will be a way for characters to help other characters in a meaningful way! And it won't even unbalance the game.

But all that value would be short-circuited if the only way to get a dwelling was to buy it with real-world dollars. (Of course, having DPs will still help you get a dwelling faster; reqs and cigs are available in the Hunter's Lodge.)

Tents, now... tents are different. As I understand the concept, tents are going to be fun, a luxury, a fancy extra, a Cool Thing. Exactly the sort of thing that qualifies as premium content.



I think even the poorest among us could scrape up $10 for something they consider important. And let's keep things in perspective: 1) A roof over your head is not a necessity for playing the game or RPing. (I imagine the Count is quite comfortable in his cliffside condo while waiting for dwellings.) 2) $10 is roughly the cost of a movie, not including parking (if not validated), refreshments (add another $5 - $10 right there), transpo to and from, etc. 3) The princely sum of $10 can be saved thru a variety of economic measures, from brown bagging your lunch, eating ramen for one meal a day for a week, working an hour and a half at minimum wage, mowing a lawn or two or shoveling snow of a couple of driveways. 4) DP can also be earned by generating referrals. Furthermore, as you stated, players are often willing to help each other out, both in and out of game. If a player cannot do any of these things, then they obviously have other priorities.

If I were CMJ, what I'd do is start players with a lease. Say $1/month for a parcel, $20/month for a whole square (with right-of-way, easements, etc.) Permits for building a basic house would be a one time $5 fee. Structural additions would be similarly priced. Furniture, decor, etc. could be handled with req or cigs or just making shit up (free!). Group owned structures would be allowed.

Let's face it. CMJ is doing a lot of work that makes many people happy. He should be rewarded for his hard work, and at a rate an order of magnitude greater than minimum wage. (I realize you do a lot of work, too, but your arrangements are between yourself and CMJ.)

To sum it up, those who want houses will find a way.


 
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Jon Bishop
 Saturday, November 07 2009 @ 10:57 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Pinche+Cabron

Quote by: Count+Sessine

Pinche, I disagree with the notion of making dwellings reserved premium content, and here's why: being able to get something as basic as a roof over the head should not depend on player affluence. It's fine if, in-game, the character has to scrimp and save and work long hours and call upon the help of his friends. That's all good, and will have a very positive effect on the social dynamics of the Island. Finally, there will be a way for characters to help other characters in a meaningful way! And it won't even unbalance the game.

But all that value would be short-circuited if the only way to get a dwelling was to buy it with real-world dollars. (Of course, having DPs will still help you get a dwelling faster; reqs and cigs are available in the Hunter's Lodge.)

Tents, now... tents are different. As I understand the concept, tents are going to be fun, a luxury, a fancy extra, a Cool Thing. Exactly the sort of thing that qualifies as premium content.



I think even the poorest among us could scrape up $10 for something they consider important. And let's keep things in perspective: 1) A roof over your head is not a necessity for playing the game or RPing. (I imagine the Count is quite comfortable in his cliffside condo while waiting for dwellings.) 2) $10 is roughly the cost of a movie, not including parking (if not validated), refreshments (add another $5 - $10 right there), transpo to and from, etc. 3) The princely sum of $10 can be saved thru a variety of economic measures, from brown bagging your lunch, eating ramen for one meal a day for a week, working an hour and a half at minimum wage, mowing a lawn or two or shoveling snow of a couple of driveways. 4) DP can also be earned by generating referrals. Furthermore, as you stated, players are often willing to help each other out, both in and out of game. If a player cannot do any of these things, then they obviously have other priorities.

If I were CMJ, what I'd do is start players with a lease. Say $1/month for a parcel, $20/month for a whole square (with right-of-way, easements, etc.) Permits for building a basic house would be a one time $5 fee. Structural additions would be similarly priced. Furniture, decor, etc. could be handled with req or cigs or just making shit up (free!). Group owned structures would be allowed.

Let's face it. CMJ is doing a lot of work that makes many people happy. He should be rewarded for his hard work, and at a rate an order of magnitude greater than minimum wage. (I realize you do a lot of work, too, but your arrangements are between yourself and CMJ.)

To sum it up, those who want houses will find a way.



Pinche, I understand your argument, but it just wouldn't seem right. Dwellings did not cost real money in the first season, so they should not in the second. If things that used to be free start needing a charge, that just isn't a good direction.


 
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Paul Lo
 Saturday, November 07 2009 @ 11:22 PM UTC  
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Dwellings should be free, like Season 1, but also with some special stuff that would require DP (one-time cost, mind you) and/or, at a certain point, DP would be added to the cost of enlarging the space of the house...

Furniture should be mostly buyable with requisition tokens and ciggies, and some would cost some DP as extra.

That would be ideal (for me), I say.


Yes, I have a dream, of electronic sheeps and linen bedsheets. But that's not the point. Or isn't it?
 
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Hairy Mary
 Saturday, November 07 2009 @ 11:36 PM UTC  
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1.) CONGRATULATIONS CMJ AND EMILY!!!!
2.) CMJ is getting married. If he even thinks about II at any point in the next week, and preferably fortnight, then he's going badly wrong. KK, I know you're keen to get going on the houses, but the man's getting married. That should be a part of his life that's more important than the whole of II put together. So curb your impatience just a little while longer. They're coming.
3.) The set up (viz. housing) looks good. I really like the way that this can involve helping each other out. That sort of thing can really help the friendly atmosphere which is such an important feature of the island. Makes me regret playing such a tight-arse wanker who wouldn't lift a finger to help his own grandmother unless he thought he was going to get something out of it himself. I may have to start a new alt.


 
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Reverb
 Saturday, November 07 2009 @ 11:41 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Makes me regret playing such a tight-arse wanker who wouldn't lift a finger to help his own grandmother unless he thought he was going to get something out of it himself.



Wait...... you're PINCHE? Twisted Evil


But, yes, houses ought to be free.. in particular because it eases to cooperational spirit of the whole construction team thingamawhatsits.. Make us pay for the tents though, as those are exactly the kind of nifty but utterly non-vital addition the rest of the DP list already consists off..


"Censure acquits the Raven, but pursues the Dove." "So, that means i'm -always- innocent, right?"
 
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talkydoor
 Sunday, November 08 2009 @ 12:06 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

1.)
CMJ is getting married. If he even thinks about II at any point in the next week, and preferably fortnight, then he's going badly wrong... That should be a part of his life that's more important than the whole of II put together.



Thank you, Hairy Mary! I couldn't have put it better myself.

After such a long wait for dwellings, I'm more than happy to wait a bit longer for a good cause.


 
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K.K. Victoria
 Sunday, November 08 2009 @ 02:54 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

1.) CONGRATULATIONS CMJ AND EMILY!!!!
2.) CMJ is getting married. If he even thinks about II at any point in the next week, and preferably fortnight, then he's going badly wrong. KK, I know you're keen to get going on the houses, but the man's getting married. That should be a part of his life that's more important than the whole of II put together. So curb your impatience just a little while longer. They're coming.
3.) The set up (viz. housing) looks good. I really like the way that this can involve helping each other out. That sort of thing can really help the friendly atmosphere which is such an important feature of the island. Makes me regret playing such a tight-arse wanker who wouldn't lift a finger to help his own grandmother unless he thought he was going to get something out of it himself. I may have to start a new alt.



Curb my impatience?

Really, I've been waiting for this for a very long time. It was bad timing on my part to email CMJ just before his wedding day (I had no idea!) about this subject, but that might have been what spawned this entire thing. (Day after email, this thread showed up.)

I want to be very, very frank here.

"I've been very patient, Damnit."
---This is a feature that I've been waiting for since the Season started. I've been very patient thus far. Yes, I will wait because I have to and do not have a choice. Will I do it gracefully? No, probably not. (Then again, there isn't much that I do gracefully anyway.)

Point: Please don't tell me to curb my impatience. I'm still waiting, I'm not quitting the game in protest. I'm just upset that it has taken so long in lieu of things like insults or timed fighting. I'd have been patient if I could see progress on Dwellings up to this point, but there has been no evidence. So, I get to be impatient.

(Plus, dwellings mean a lot to me. My entire season finale took place inside a dwelling. It's a big deal for my character.)

-Also, no way in Hell should dwellings cost money. Pinche, not everyone can scrape together 10$ for an online game, and to expect it for something that used to be free is ridiculous. I am so far against having to pay money on a dwelling that I don't even want to think about the idea. They were free before. They should be free now. End story.

If things that were once free start costing money, where are we going with that? Nowhere that I want to.


"You saved Pineapple!"
 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, November 08 2009 @ 05:47 PM UTC  
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Pinche, I imagine you feel it's no big deal to charge real-world money for something that will be a new feature to you.

But, here's the thing: for anyone who was here in Season One, dwellings are something they used to have, something they counted on and in some cases, like KK, practically built their characters around... and something that was taken away when Season Two started. If you had something you valued a lot and it was taken away with the promise that you'd get it back later... and you waited months to get it back, and then suddenly you were told you'd have to pay to get it back... don't you think you'd feel ripped off?

Then too, CMJ has to tread a fine line here. The game is based on LotGD code -- which is open source. That means he is not allowed to charge people just to play the game... and if he tried, he would get in deep trouble in the community of LotGD developers to which he belongs. He can lure players to donate of their own free will with shiny new extras; this strategy seems to be working rather well. But, no armtwisting. What's allowed, and what he wants to do anyway is: Cool stuff if you play for free; even cooler stuff if you throw in a few bucks from time to time.

Look at how carefully he's balanced the chronospheres feature between something good for everyone, and something extra, but not too much extra, for donators. It's nicer even for people who don't donate; if you do, you get more flexibility and more play-time... but not infinite play-time.

That's how I'm guessing Houses will work, too.


 
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Symar
 Sunday, November 08 2009 @ 05:54 PM UTC  
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2.) CMJ is getting married. If he even thinks about II at any point in the next week, and preferably fortnight, then he's going badly wrong. KK, I know you're keen to get going on the houses, but the man's getting married. That should be a part of his life that's more important than the whole of II put together. So curb your impatience just a little while longer. They're coming.



But II is his job. Are you saying he should take an entire month off of his job?
I don't disagree that his getting married and starting a new life is important. But still :p


 
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Pinche Cabron
 Sunday, November 08 2009 @ 06:08 PM UTC  
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-Also, no way in Hell should dwellings cost money. Pinche, not everyone can scrape together 10$ for an online game, and to expect it for something that used to be free is ridiculous. I am so far against having to pay money on a dwelling that I don't even want to think about the idea. They were free before. They should be free now. End story.

If things that were once free start costing money, where are we going with that? Nowhere that I want to.



I'm pretty sure that you can come up with the dough, one way or another. (You have a LOT of friends, myself included, who will make sure you have your dream house.) For the record, I think you have been very patient, and don't fault you at all for writing CMJ.

The argument that because it was free in Season 1 means it should automatically be free in season 2 doesn't hold water. Season 1 is over, and I really hope you "old timers" have let go of that by now. Seriously, time to move on and stop living in the past. There have been lots of changes from Season 1 to Season 2, so saying something should remain a certain way because you like free things is selfish and self-serving. Saying that it's tradition, when there have only been two seasons, is absurd.

Things that were once free often do wind up costing money. People in my area used to go to the local mountains to camp and hike for free. Now there's a fee. I bet each of you can come up with many examples of something once free now costing money. That's life, and welcome to it.

I'm not even getting into arguments about overdevelopment and urban sprawl, but I'd be happy to if my arguments are deficient.


 
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