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KimmyMonstah
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 01:10 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Marly

I know that CMJ says that the titan spawn rate will adjust and all that but...

Too many. Dear mother of myself, too many.

The problem might be that we're a very thorough lot, and we're smiting them all down way too fast, but seriously? I'm having Onslaught flashbacks here.



As much as I like Titans and fighting them? Too many is killing it.
They're more of a nuisance than a big fun fight.

I could see maybe a pattern of some sort happening, and that might be okay.
That being; Every so often, one or two Titans might show up. Like scouts, of sorts. Those kind would have the 5 mil hp.
Contestants take them out, then they might stay way for a bit. Maybe a couple strays now and then.
Then, a whole shit load of them pop out on a busy day, like a big attack wave. I think those ones could have the 1mil hp, so it might be more balanced?
And after the big attack waves, maybe a couple leftover ones before things die down again.

Its probably lame sounding, but I think that might be more fun or interesting than just willy nilly and making them more annoying.
Just my two cents.

Although, before anyone says this to me, Titans might not be smart enough to form attack plans or think in packs, either. So...

Edit: Didn't even see the post before this when I started this reply, apologies.


 
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Zephy
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 01:23 AM UTC  
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I have to agree with Marly, HM and Kimmy on the "too many at once" thought.


Also, I'm finding fighting them don't seem to pay off *at all*.
I spent 3 full days of P-vile powered stamina fighting a titan (along with a few K req in bombs and things) only to find that I didn't do enough damage to get *any* REQ when it died. Also there doesn't seem to be any XP paying out either.


 
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KimmyMonstah
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 01:33 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Zephy

Also, I'm finding fighting them don't seem to pay off *at all*.
I spent 3 full days of P-vile powered stamina fighting a titan (along with a few K req in bombs and things) only to find that I didn't do enough damage to get *any* REQ when it died. Also there doesn't seem to be any XP paying out either.



That's half the reason I don't feel like fighting the big bastards anymore. :\
They don't even pay off. The first one I went after, I chucked in a bunch of newdays [three or four], bought a plasma gun and gargle blastered the sucker, and maybe got a nice little prize. Maybe.
With the more recent ones, its even less.

As fun as they are, they gooootttaa pay off a little bit. Especially if they get boring, then they reaaally need to pay off.
Pretty much what I've been doing is fighting one if I feel like it, if I have time in my schedule. [Normally, I like this sort of thing. Not for Titans though!]
Titans....aren't supposed to be like that. They'll wreck the outpost, and other bad stuff that nobody really wants.
The wild unpredictable part of them is what makes them fun, not just a routine 'oh here's another one, maybe some of the stronger players should go after it.' thing.


 
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Tyr
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 03:39 AM UTC  
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Quote by: KimmyMonstah
The wild unpredictable part of them is what makes them fun, not just a routine 'oh here's another one, maybe some of the stronger players should go after it.' thing.


Excuse me? There's no more reward in it for the "stronger" players. I mean, sure. I probably make more req off of Titans then most folks. But I don't need req.I have the gear I want, and always have extra at the end of a DK anyway.

The "strong" players are strong for a reason. They play the game. They DK. A lot of them are speedrunners. Titans chew up game days and spit them out, and they don't give any exp. What's the incentive for "strong" players to go fight them, when no-one else is willing?

I fight Titans because it's in character. Because Tyr would rather die than let one of them reach an outpost. For the same reasons that he busted his ass when Onslaught started. But yeah, if it stays like this, at this volume, it's going to get old fast. And I'm not going to want to fight them any more than you do.

Something that would help me stay interested is if there was more story attached to Onslaught and Titans. I really liked the initial lead up, before Onslaught came out.


 
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Binjali
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 03:41 AM UTC  
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Quote by: KimmyMonstah



That's half the reason I don't feel like fighting the big bastards anymore. :
They don't even pay off. The first one I went after, I chucked in a bunch of newdays [three or four], bought a plasma gun and gargle blastered the sucker, and maybe got a nice little prize. Maybe.
With the more recent ones, its even less.

As fun as they are, they gooootttaa pay off a little bit. Especially if they get boring, then they reaaally need to pay off.
Pretty much what I've been doing is fighting one if I feel like it, if I have time in my schedule. [Normally, I like this sort of thing. Not for Titans though!]
Titans....aren't supposed to be like that. They'll wreck the outpost, and other bad stuff that nobody really wants.
The wild unpredictable part of them is what makes them fun, not just a routine 'oh here's another one, maybe some of the stronger players should go after it.' thing.



I agree about the payout to a certain extent, but if they're made too lucrative that could be an issue. Also...if you want req, just jungle fight. You'll get plenty in short enough order.

I don't fight Titans expecting to get forward in the levelling, equipment buying, DKing process. I fight Titans to fight Titans, because I find it entertaining, for now. I also fight Titans because it's in character.

I assume that this is an unusual volume of Titans to see where our breaking point is. Once we've broken, CMJ'll tone it down to where it strikes the right balance of "Oh god we're all going to die" and "VICTORYYY!" Right? Right? Big Grin

P.S. Have been fighting Titans with Imp Bombs all day today. I am quite entertained.
P.P.S. Still getting dropped in IC when I fail to a Titan and have the Watcher send me back.


 
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KimmyMonstah
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 05:25 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Binjali

I agree about the payout to a certain extent, but if they're made too lucrative that could be an issue. Also...if you want req, just jungle fight. You'll get plenty in short enough order.



Pff. Of course! I do more than my share of jungle fighting on a daily basis. Bob's online almost 24/7. Its kind of scheduled into my life now.

Quote by: Tyr

Excuse me? There's no more reward in it for the "stronger" players. I mean, sure. I probably make more req off of Titans then most folks. But I don't need req.I have the gear I want, and always have extra at the end of a DK anyway.

The "strong" players are strong for a reason. They play the game. They DK. A lot of them are speedrunners. Titans chew up game days and spit them out, and they don't give any exp. What's the incentive for "strong" players to go fight them, when no-one else is willing?



And to Tyr; I really didn't mean it that way. And I DK alot, even if I pretty much quit for....what, five months after the second season started? If I hadn't quit for that period of time [due to certain issues], I'd probabably have at least double of what I've got now.
However! I do apologize for that seeming offensive, but I figured it was what weaker players would think after swarms of Titans started passing through.


Annnd to anybody else who got offended, sorry to them too. I really didn't mean it that way.


 
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Jon Bishop
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 06:55 AM UTC  
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I think the rewards for killing titans are perfectly fine, but I do think it has the threat of turning out the same way that onslaught did. In the beginning, it was completely manageable, because everyone was interested in the new feature. Once the novelty wears off, people still may care about the feature, but don't want to divert all of their time towards it. That's what is starting to happen, and it's very hard to manage. So it's important to keep in mind that the resistance against titans at their initial release will be quite a lot stronger than a week or two after, because people will get bored of fighting them all of the time. The problem is, make the titan spawns too infrequent, and people won't even bother fighting at all, and it's like the feature isn't even there anymore. Hell, after the onslaught waves were weakened, I haven't even bothered reinforcing a wall at all, because every outpost's hitpoints seem to be in the millions.

I think a concern with titans, a concern that used to apply to onslaught, too, is that something that is being done in the game section of the island can negatively affect people who want to just role play, and don't really care to play the game aspect. I think one of the appeals of this island is that you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Role play, crate hunt, build dwellings, be a trader at outposts, jungle fights, etc. A game feature that can destroy an outpost threatens that freedom, because it forces players to do something they might not want to.

Putting that aside, I do like the feature. I think it's great fighting along side a group of people, as it's the only time you get a sense of working as a team, as opposed to the lone-wolf wandering through the jungle business. Also, it's pretty cool having one huge monster moving around on the map, it's definitely unique.


 
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Sloth
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 09:34 AM UTC  
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So I've been hunting Titans (and enjoying it!) for, what, a few days or so, and I have three comments:

1) Too many. I understand that this is self-balancing, so maybe it will work itself out over time, but right now everyone's interested in killing them (because they're new!), so we're getting lots and lots. As long as the number falls back as people get bored with it, this is okay, I suppose.

2) Fiscal rewards. I think they're fine! Sorta! If you've got a lot of DK's, a plasma rifle, and are low enough level that Gargleblasters are cheap, you can deal pretty absurd damage for a while, then quit fighting and eventually reap your 20-50k requisition bonus. I'm enjoying it, it means I'll be able to upgrade my hat this run! If you don't have a lot of DK's, on the other hand...

3) Lack of balance. Many of the elements of the game don't really have anything to do with how long you've been playing and what you've been doing while playing (rping, speedrunning, building up skills, etc.). Sure, if you're new, walking across the Island can be tough, and sure, dwellings cost lots of ciggies, but you can do these things anyway! When it comes to Titans, on the other hand, if you're a rookie (or just have a few DK's), the amount of damage that you can put out relative to the hit points is kinda pathetic (not to discourage anyone who wants to do it anyway!). I speak from experience, by the way, having both a character with a goodly number of DK's and an alt with only 1, my alt can do, oh, say, 10k damage or so on a full stomach with his chainsaw, compared to the hundreds of thousands that Sloth can do -- my alt might get, oh, 1000 req from helping to kill a Titan, compared to the tens of thousands Sloth gets.

Perhaps there's some way to scale the damage with number of DK's, so that people with few DK's can meaningfully contribute? I think the important thing is the time that the player spends fighting Titans, not the damage that the characters do, really. That's my take anyhow. Perhaps instead of hit points, Titans could just require a certain number of rounds of attacks before they die?


 
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Hairy Mary
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 12:51 PM UTC  
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Sloth. You're third point. I hear what you're saying, but I think that making all players equal, and just the number of rounds of attacks counting is going a bit too far. The big players have spent time and effort building up their characters to become mighty warriors. They should be doing significantly more damage than us lesser mortals, and reaping the greater rewards from it as well. Otherwise, what really is the point for them?

That said, the difference is rather overwhelming, it could be toned down a bit. As a small player, you tend to see your contribution as rather meaningless. But there's something else going on. As I understand it, a titan moves when there's no one attacking him? Is this right? In which case small players can do something useful, they can hold up the titan until the giant killers get there. I'm not sure if I'm right on this at all, as has been noted above, you sometimes see people in the fight who don't appear to be doing anything. I'm guessing that they've joined the fray, and then got called away in RL. So if one person like that went and met a titan, then they could be stuck on the same square for evermore. They might even become a tourist attraction.

Perhaps if with every blow, there was a tiny chance of hitting just the right spot on the titan's tendon and doing an extra 1000 damage so that small players might just get a lucky blow in, and do something that feels significant, and get a bit more req to boot.


 
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Ada
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 02:54 PM UTC  
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Titans still move when you're attacking them - I wore a really good stam day all the way down on one, which took ages, and by the time I finally ran out of stam and ran away from the thing, it was two squares away.

(What happened to the To The Death button on titans? TT_TT)


 
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Ochris
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 05:16 PM UTC  
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While I agree that there are a few too many Titans, if that will even out I have no more complaints. I do think it would be better if there were a way to know where the Titans were just by looking at your map, or by paying the creepy fucking comms tent guy (ahheissocreepywhyyyy) a few req. I think that would draw more players to the fight.


 
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zamboni
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 07:06 PM UTC  
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGG! Wasn't logged in, typed up long post with much witticism, tried to post, post fall down go boom!

Short version (sans bon mots):

- Titans good, too many titans bad!

- Titans tied to DK level, got 1-shotted on a Bastard Rank when can normally get in thousands of rounds on rank 4-5 DKs; might want to rethink this, since Titans don't give xp and it sucks to be excluded from Island events just because you're looking for a challenging DK.

- Hopeful that we'll get some storyline and background on why Titans are visiting the Island.


 
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Zpatula
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 07:57 PM UTC  
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Can't be such a thing as 'too many Titans', IMHO. I do, however, want a medal for getting in the killing blow on a Titan, and another for just fighting one. If you get a medal for taking a lesson from Miko, you should get a medal for battling a Titan.


I ATE PINEAPPLE!
 
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Akogi
 Sunday, May 09 2010 @ 08:58 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Zpatula

Can't be such a thing as 'too many Titans', IMHO. I do, however, want a medal for getting in the killing blow on a Titan, and another for just fighting one. If you get a medal for taking a lesson from Miko, you should get a medal for battling a Titan.



A medal would be a good idea for killing a titan. However not necessarily fighting one since someone can find one, enter combat and then run which would earn them a medal. Maybe have it so they earn a medal for battling the titan after say 20 or 30 rounds.

I also think that there should be something on the news feed for dealing the killing blow to a titan.


 
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Dulcibella
 Monday, May 10 2010 @ 01:04 AM UTC  
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Medals=yay!

I know the changing flavor text for each outpost re: alarm levels was developed for onslaught, but couldn't it be adjusted for when titans are within range as well? If the ground is shaking, surely the wall guards are aware that something is up, and really with sharp-eyed guards on duty it's conceivable they'd be able to see it coming from even further afield. It wouldn't have to be specific to titans approaching the outpost in question, either.


 
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Ada
 Monday, May 10 2010 @ 02:25 AM UTC  
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I don't think there is anything wrong with having so many titans! You can totally ignore them if you're not interested. Onslaught was pretty hard to ignore when the bank closed. Titans just wander around and smash walls, and unless CMJ has tweaked something we don't know about, smashing walls without having Onslaught active is... not threatening at all.


 
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Tyr
 Monday, May 10 2010 @ 02:41 AM UTC  
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Onslaught is still active. Ace High was at a shop-closing level a few nights ago - it's just dialed way down from where it had been. I was under the impression that if a Titan smashes down the walls, the monsters will come pouring in.


Quote by: Jon+Bishop



I think a concern with titans, a concern that used to apply to onslaught, too, is that something that is being done in the game section of the island can negatively affect people who want to just role play, and don't really care to play the game aspect. I think one of the appeals of this island is that you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Role play, crate hunt, build dwellings, be a trader at outposts, jungle fights, etc. A game feature that can destroy an outpost threatens that freedom, because it forces players to do something they might not want to.



This. This exactly.


 
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Ada
 Monday, May 10 2010 @ 03:08 AM UTC  
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Ah, so has the monster spawn rate for onslaught been increased? I haven't seen it get much of anywhere since it was drastically lowered after dwellings came out.


 
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Binjali
 Monday, May 10 2010 @ 03:12 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Dulcibella


I know the changing flavor text for each outpost re: alarm levels was developed for onslaught, but couldn't it be adjusted for when titans are within range as well? If the ground is shaking, surely the wall guards are aware that something is up, and really with sharp-eyed guards on duty it's conceivable they'd be able to see it coming from even further afield. It wouldn't have to be specific to titans approaching the outpost in question, either.



Well, in a way you get a warning, actually. From bipping about the Island yesterday, I noticed that alert levels went up the closer a Titan got to "its" Outpost. A Titan got within five squares of New Pittsburgh, and the zombies were getting very excited indeed. Then, after the Titan was taken out, the alert level gradually went back down, although I'm not clear if that's because the Titan was defeated or because people were jungle fighting at that location.

I only have that and the way Ace High's levels seemed to react to AH Titans being kinda-sorta nearby to go off of. It's not conclusive evidence, but I'm pretty convinced there's a correlation.


 
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Anonymous: Rosin (being lazy)
 Monday, May 10 2010 @ 05:46 AM UTC  


I believe it makes perfect sense for a small to medium horde of monsters to follow beneath a Titan's feet (carefully about half a kilometer away so as not to get stepped on) and follow it to an outpost. It's like little scavengers following around the big predator in anticipation of stealing the spoils after a big kill, and it also gives me this fun image in my head as well.

As other people have said, having a few vanguard Titans scout out the island before a swarm climbs up onto land would also be interesting, as would having baby Titans swimming around the Lake or as a possible random event similar to the Magpie or Tattoo Mutant. Impact on role play can be expected with any new game feature at all (my my how the world did change in those short days after onslaught and dwellings), but Titans are rather low risk as far as that goes. Unlike when Onslaught was in its meltdown overload cataclysm state (right after dwellings, when no one wanted to waste stamina on monsters), there are people who will definitely continue to hunt down Titans regardless, especially some roleplayers. (I have this image of KK all geared up and wandering the island for Titans to punch in the face, and one of Bernard riding atop a Titan's head with extremely very long reigns in his hands and with narry a clue as to how he got there but certainly enjoying the scenery.)

Titans are awesome as far as I've seen (though I'd love more description on them please, I want to know what they look sound smell feel like to the contestants hacking away at their legs/hide/neck/giant stupid eyeballs) and I'm thinking that it might well make the Onslaught module much more fun. Good job, Dan!


 
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