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 Furniture store in Central!
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Cousjava
 Sunday, August 22 2010 @ 06:52 PM UTC  
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Quote by: SicPuess
uncomfortable cold stairs


But they wouldn't be uncomfortable if you were a GHAIR now would it?


A table, a chair, a bowl of fruit and a trombone; what else does a man need to be happy?
 
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SicPuess
 Sunday, August 22 2010 @ 08:01 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Cousjava

Quote by: SicPuess
uncomfortable cold stairs


But they wouldn't be uncomfortable if you were a GHAIR now would it?



I don't particulary want to have to add "YMMV" to every sleepspace?


 
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crashtestpilot
 Tuesday, August 24 2010 @ 05:35 PM UTC  
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Just to chime in: Furniture Drop Off points tied to sheds (per CMJ 7/9/10) would RILLY f'g help a certain lack of furniture @ 17,10.

~CTP


 
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Tamago
 Wednesday, September 15 2010 @ 03:04 AM UTC  
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Is there a way to use Folding Beds in other people's dwellings? I bought it thinking that since it's a folding bed and portable (only 15k), I'd be able to cart it around and temporarily set it up in any dwelling where there was floor space available, and then take it with me again the next day when I left. But that doesn't seem to be the case, unless I'm missing something totally obvious (which is a distinct possibility).


 
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Mack
 Wednesday, September 15 2010 @ 03:05 AM UTC  
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Not as far as I know. Though that would be a wicked awesome feature.

Or maybe we could hear something more about these portable dwellings we've been so teased about.


You can toast them, but it's dark magic. - MotPax on hotdog buns.
 
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zamboni
 Wednesday, September 15 2010 @ 04:45 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Mack

Not as far as I know. Though that would be a wicked awesome feature.

Or maybe we could hear something more about these portable dwellings we've been so teased about.



And custom furniture!


 
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Count Sessine
 Friday, November 26 2010 @ 10:45 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 06:33 AM UTC

There'll be an option for custom furniture pretty soon.

Sell the ability to rename a placed piece of furniture or a floor slot, in a dwelling you own or to which you have a master key, as an item in the Hunter's Lodge. Furniture with Groucho glasses!

No change to the stamina-boosting characteristics, no fancy extra double-bed coding needed. Just a change to the displayed name. All illusion -- once you lie down it's still a couch or a bed, so the text when you sleep in one doesn't need to change.

Charge 50 sp for a one-use item, or 895 sp for the permanent ability to transform furniture.

Buyers will line up, I guarantee it.


 
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Hairy Mary
 Friday, November 26 2010 @ 10:56 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Count+Sessine

Quote by: CavemanJoe Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 06:33 AM UTC

There'll be an option for custom furniture pretty soon.

Sell the ability to rename a placed piece of furniture or a floor slot, in a dwelling you own or to which you have a master key, as an item in the Hunter's Lodge. Furniture with Groucho glasses!

No change to the stamina-boosting characteristics, no fancy extra double-bed coding needed. Just a change to the displayed name. All illusion -- once you lie down it's still a couch or a bed, so the text when you sleep in one doesn't need to change.

Charge 50 sp for a one-use item, or 895 sp for the permanent ability to transform furniture.

Buyers will line up, I guarantee it.



Quite agree. But... why 895 sp? Where did that unusually precise number come from?


 
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Count Sessine
 Friday, November 26 2010 @ 11:06 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Hairy+Mary

Quite agree. But... why 895 sp? Where did that unusually precise number come from?

A specific for a non-specific -- doesn't have to be that.

Just pointing out that Hunter's Lodge prices don't have to be round numbers, and that $5.00 may be setting too low a value on such a permanent ability and $10.00 too high. Maybe the right price is 649 sp!


 
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Anonymous: Some Poor Peasant.
 Friday, November 26 2010 @ 11:22 PM UTC  


Does custom furniture have to cost Supporter Points?

Couldn't it simply cost many, MANY more cigarettes and requisition?
I don't wish to starve the site of money, not at all! But some of us don't always have the ability to buy every fancy thing that costs DPs/SPs/Fancy Points.

Also, as for making the prices of things random amounts of Supporter Points, while I understand the idea, I do not take kindly to it. If things cost confusing amounts of Supporter Points, people may be less inclined to buy them.
If you've got 3000 Points, it's easier to buy something you want that costs 500, 1500, and 1000 points, instead of something that'll cost you some CRAZY NUMBERS, and leave you with a wimpy 1 Supporter Point left. Or 15. Or perhaps 54, 83, 107. Random numbers and all that what.


 
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Count Sessine
 Saturday, November 27 2010 @ 12:26 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Some Poor Peasant.

Does custom furniture have to cost Supporter Points?

Couldn't it simply cost many, MANY more cigarettes and requisition?
I don't wish to starve the site of money, not at all! But some of us don't always have the ability to buy every fancy thing that costs DPs/SPs/Fancy Points.

Also, as for making the prices of things random amounts of Supporter Points, while I understand the idea, I do not take kindly to it. If things cost confusing amounts of Supporter Points, people may be less inclined to buy them.
If you've got 3000 Points, it's easier to buy something you want that costs 500, 1500, and 1000 points, instead of something that'll cost you some CRAZY NUMBERS, and leave you with a wimpy 1 Supporter Point left. Or 15. Or perhaps 54, 83, 107. Random numbers and all that what.

There's precedent. Custom armor, weapons, mounts, titles, name-colors... all cost Supporter Points. And since we've lived without renamable furniture until now, it's not an essential of playing the game, it's a nice-to-have. So yes, I think it does have to cost Supporter Points. It's exactly the sort of thing that belongs in the Hunter's Lodge.

They're not called Donator Points any more, because there are lots of ways to get Points without donating actual hard cash (though, of course, that is still the easiest way, if you can afford a few bucks from time to time). Just about anything that counts as supporting the site now gets rewarded with Supporter Points.

As for round numbers -- there are now several different ways to get small increments of Supporter Points, which means most people aren't going to have nice easy numbers like 3000 SPs in their balance anyway. They'll have something like 3187 or 2806 SPs, so there'll usually be odd change left over after buying something.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Saturday, November 27 2010 @ 08:14 PM UTC  
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I completely and wholly disagree. Furniture is now an integral part of gameplay if we're to consider that building is as core a gameplay style as fighting is. Most people try to sleep in a spot now before they use a NewDay and before they log out. To not have used a sleeping spot is more of a loss than to have used a sleeping spot be a bonus.

What if we said that Dwellings could only be purchased for cigs as Houses, Offices, and Complexes. And you had to buy the ability to rename these kinds of buildings as whatever you wished, so you could make it an Elephant-based Greeting Center. Since there's precedent for spending Supporter Points on Custom Items, it should make sense for this renaming option to cost Supporter Points.

Supporter Points should only be spent on things which are considered things outside core gameplay benefits. I'm not even too fond of the existence of Builder's Brew, but I tolerate it because it's probably popular enough to be a good source of income.


 
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Syd Lexic
 Saturday, November 27 2010 @ 08:34 PM UTC  
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Fred - I'm not entirely sure, but I think that either I misread your post or you misread some other posts. It looks to me like you agree with what Sessine posted... unless you were responding to someone else... I fully agree with Sessine's proposition, since it's like what we have with custom weapons and armor. Nothing about the mechanics of the sleep spaces would be changing, just the ability to rename them. So we'd have things like {F}loor space available, {B}ean bag chair available, {T}op of the bookcase available, etc. The stam bonus would remain the same as whatever was actually installed there.


 
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calliaphone
 Saturday, November 27 2010 @ 09:15 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Syd+Lexic

Nothing about the mechanics of the sleep spaces would be changing, just the ability to rename them. So we'd have things like {F}loor space available, {B}ean bag chair available, {T}op of the bookcase available, etc. The stam bonus would remain the same as whatever was actually installed there.



i want this so bad i want it so so bad i'm not really here right now but i had to put my head in just to say how much i want this if i haven't mentioned before at every single opportunity now i'm just y'know mentioning it again in passing is it implemented yet is it is it?

**hops about**

**dreams of..**

Nest of haybales and crocheted blankets available
Dusty old mattress available
Space under traction engine available
Ditch available
Suitcase available
Mud-puddle available
Ahab's backpack available
Gutter available
Cart available...

oh oh, imagine if you could make a bed available/not available not just by sleeping in it/not sleeping in it. BUT also by taking it with you. that is to say, if you'd parked your cart in a room you could set the sleeping space it lives in as "there". but if you role-played driving off in it, then you could role-play it as not there anymore.


 
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Count Sessine
 Saturday, November 27 2010 @ 09:26 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

I completely and wholly disagree. Furniture is now an integral part of gameplay if we're to consider that building is as core a gameplay style as fighting is. Most people try to sleep in a spot now before they use a NewDay and before they log out. To not have used a sleeping spot is more of a loss than to have used a sleeping spot be a bonus.

What if we said that Dwellings could only be purchased for cigs as Houses, Offices, and Complexes. And you had to buy the ability to rename these kinds of buildings as whatever you wished, so you could make it an Elephant-based Greeting Center. Since there's precedent for spending Supporter Points on Custom Items, it should make sense for this renaming option to cost Supporter Points.

Supporter Points should only be spent on things which are considered things outside core gameplay benefits. I'm not even too fond of the existence of Builder's Brew, but I tolerate it because it's probably popular enough to be a good source of income.

Observations:
1. We can't, now, rename furniture.
2. Server costs must be paid and CMJ must eat, or the Island goes away.
3. Disguising a 'Couch' placed on a verandah to look like a 'Porch Swing' would not interfere with gameplay at all.

And, yes, people can rename houses and rooms for free -- hey, not even any stamina cost! CMJ does give us lovely presents from time to time, and that was a very nice one. It doesn't entitle us to demand that renaming everything else should be free, too.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Sunday, November 28 2010 @ 07:25 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Syd+Lexic

Fred - I'm not entirely sure, but I think that either I misread your post or you misread some other posts. It looks to me like you agree with what Sessine posted... unless you were responding to someone else... I fully agree with Sessine's proposition, since it's like what we have with custom weapons and armor. Nothing about the mechanics of the sleep spaces would be changing, just the ability to rename them. So we'd have things like {F}loor space available, {B}ean bag chair available, {T}op of the bookcase available, etc. The stam bonus would remain the same as whatever was actually installed there.



Sorry, I didn't make my post clear. I am fine with the idea of renaming furniture to get the desired sleeping space. I was wrong to say completely and wholly disagree without specifying that I was solely referring to the Supporter Point idea. But my second paragraph was me trying to quickly (I had friends over rushing me to go out with them) make an example that contradicts Sessine's rationale about why he (she?) says the ability to rename furniture should cost Supporter Points.

Observations:
1. We can't, now, rename furniture.
2. Server costs must be paid and CMJ must eat, or the Island goes away.
3. Disguising a 'Couch' placed on a verandah to look like a 'Porch Swing' would not interfere with gameplay at all.

And, yes, people can rename houses and rooms for free -- hey, not even any stamina cost! CMJ does give us lovely presents from time to time, and that was a very nice one. It doesn't entitle us to demand that renaming everything else should be free, too.


The stamina cost is a poor sidenote, considering it says right there in the text that it doesn't take any effort to call a study room a kitchen or something of the like. I understand Improbable Island has to make money, but that doesn't mean certain pay-to-play structures should or shouldn't be broken. The idea that we're demanding everything that could be renamed should be free sounds like words in my mouth that I didn't say.

If we remember the thread about Force Generators, the point was made that building is to be as core a gameplay feature as fighting, since this game isn't WoW or one if its many 'killers'. Having accepted this idea and jumped aboard it, I definitely view that the completion of the Dwellings part of gameplay is not an extra added bonus. The current state where you can only sleep on the Floor, a Couch, a Folding Bed, or a Single Bed is an incomplete design, I would argue. This is obviously insufficient to work with a Dwelling model where you can have a Bouncy Castle, a Cryogenic Sleep Chamber, or a room of comfy fold-back armchairs. A very sensible way to accompany this freedom with Dwelling Descriptions is the ability to rename generic sleep-oriented furniture of various Stam-boosting levels to whatever you wanted, I agree with you there, Sessine. But because this does not seem like an extra feature of the Dwelling system, it should not cost Supporter Points. Otherwise, in order to have 10% sleep spaces make sense with people's various dwellings, you would always need a room that had fluffy beds in it, even though the Dwelling is named World of Comfy Armchairs, and you could only avoid that by paying money.

As I say those words, I suddenly withdraw my "completely and wholly" part however. You make the point that they're not called Donator Points anymore and are instead Supporter Points because people can earn them with referrals, WCG, and Monster Submissions. But as those trickles are slow (or large but far-between and not guaranteed), I still have the taste that things which cost SP mean they cost money, and Free-To-Play games should generally adhere to the philosophy that player purchases should not upset game balance. The player with the deepest credit card should not gain an unfair advantage over those that do--it upsets the integrity of the game itself and makes it less fun for players who know they're limited in their game progress by their real-life income.

Therefore, I wouldn't say anything close to "I would leave the game" if Renaming Furniture cost SP, but I still highly disagree with the proposal that it should cost SP.

Furthermore, the precedent for Renaming Costing SP is on things that attach to your character's profile and status bar. Titles, Name-Colors, Weapons, Armor, and Mounts are all things that deal with your character and only your character. Dwellings are things which deal with any character that comes across it. They're User-Generated Content, if you will.


 
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Count Sessine
 Sunday, November 28 2010 @ 09:27 AM UTC  
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Well, CMJ has a track record of making many things free or very low-cost that I've said he should charge more for. He's the one who decides this stuff. I just worry, you know?

One can make the case that roleplaying is even more of a core gameplay feature than dwellings, providing a huge component of dynamic user-generated content. It's been the aspect that has attracted and kept many long-term players. Yet... a good number of the RP-enhancing features like special comments and title changes do require SPs.

Some things do have to, or the server bill doesn't get paid and we all have to stop playing.

The basic principle that seems fair to me is that, indeed, it should be possible to play the game and have lots of fun without having to pay SPs. But SPs should be able to buy enhancements, little niceties for enthusiasts.

Dwellings are creative works of self-expression. They are not in competition with each other, there's no "game progress" involved, so there's no such thing, really, as someone having an unfair advantage... unless it be the gift of painting with words in such a way as to catch a reader's heart. (That is an advantage, if you like, but one unrelated to the depth of a credit card.)


 
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Iriana
 Sunday, November 28 2010 @ 10:28 AM UTC  
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I can't help but think that "free-to-play" only encompasses the game parts of the game. Building is absolutely a key part of gameplay (which is why furniture costs req and cigs, not actual money), but roleplaying with your buildings isn't part of the code (which is why renaming furniture to fit with roleplaying should cost money/Points). This does not mean that roleplay is unimportant. In my opinion it's just as important as the... um, game. As in killing monsters. But I think it makes sense to ask payment in exchange for something that is part of the game experience but not necessarily the game engine.

Plus, we've got to feed our estimable admin, right? Smile


 
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Mister Rawr
 Sunday, November 28 2010 @ 12:30 PM UTC  
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I, for one, do not consider building to be a "core part" of gameplay. Our characters can exist, interact with others, travel about the map, live, sleep, eat, carry out their prime mission (defeating the Improbability Drive, right? Remember that?), and even (why do I bring this up? I really dunwanna think about it) reproduce without the help of a building of their own, or without the use of any building.

While I sympathise with those who have little in the way of funds to purchase these lovely things known as Supporter (or Donator? I can never remember) Points, I cannot bring myself to claim a natural, inalienable right to personal dwellings, re-namable furniture, builders brews, etcetera and so forth. If one so desired, they could play this great game for free for months, even years, at a time.

[/soapbox]

That being said, you're all wonderful people and I'm also looking forward to putting Rawr to bed beneath a traction engine somewhere, some time.

~The Rawrrator


 
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Syd Lexic
 Sunday, November 28 2010 @ 04:31 PM UTC  
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Furthermore, the precedent for Renaming Costing SP is on things that attach to your character's profile and status bar. Titles, Name-Colors, Weapons, Armor, and Mounts are all things that deal with your character and only your character. Dwellings are things which deal with any character that comes across it. They're User-Generated Content, if you will.


It seems like this precedent, with the exception of the title and color changes, shows that CMJ tends to charge SP for things that people could RP themselves if they wanted to. In which case, if the room descrip shows a traction engine, sleep under the traction engine. The clickity links on the side are just a mechanic, anyway. Renaming sleep spots is great for immersion, but it really doesn't change the way the game is played at all. Unless renaming gives a different stam bonus, which it likely wouldn't, I have no problem seeing it as a bonus and another way to help keep our loverly island afloat.

I also assume that with the amount of sleep spaces on the island, it would probably be sufficient to charge perhaps... 25-50SP? Even if you just had the SP trickle from the WCG client, that's 5-10 days of basically just having your computer on per sleep space.

I fully empathize with people that don't have the funds to donate. I can't really donate much at all, per se. I acquired most of my points through roundabout measures. Thing is, while the Lodge items are all very lovely, they aren't necessary. They are worth finding a way to get SP, as they make the game a bit more fun, but lack of them does not make the game any less fun.

What if we were given back our ability to transfer SP, rather than just the items? I for one know I'd gladly donate a few points to a dwelling in need of sleep spaces. Or if the sleep spot kit were an item, I'm sure we could gift that too.

~Syd


 
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