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 RANT: Outposts constantly down - considering dropping support and quitting playing.
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Matthew
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 06:01 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

That step on Supply Crates because they don't realize they're there? It would give some incentive to stop them.


If crate drops weren't directly tied into the amount of real life money donated to the Island, I'd be okay with this.

But- no. I can't say I like that idea in the least.

edit: So, yeah. Popular opinion, so far, seems to be nixing onslaught but keeping some incarnation of Titans.


 
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Scorpio
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 06:03 AM UTC  
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As anyone could guess, I voted to dump it.

Let me toss out an idea for an onslaught system change though, because, again, I don't mind outposts going down occasionally, just not going down and staying down continuously. So, anyway, what about some timer tied to the real world clock, say an outpost is breached by onslaught, this sets the timer and disallows the onslaught system from spawning monsters around that outpost until a certain amount of time has passed. Not sure how difficult it would be to integrate into the existing system, but the coding of it shouldn't be too hard, something along the lines of an if statement hooked into a table lookup that stores a do not touch date, or a last fall date, something along that line. It would still allow for titans, and the building of walls, but would give the outposts periods of lucid sanity where you could actually go bank your req and not have to cross your fingers every single time you clicked a return to outpost.

Of course that would still leave a real need for a travel link within the jungle, and I still think it would be a wonderful idea to be able to deposit req on the fly, even if the outpost is breached.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 06:08 AM UTC  
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I'd like to also thank you, Scorpio, for bringing this up in the forums. Onslaught really has been getting to be a problem, and it's also heartening to see that CMJ is a highly responsive developer when it comes to problems in his game.

Not that I already knew that about CMJ. Wink

I voted for the "scrap it" too, because I'd rather it be taken down and reimplemented better later than have it up while trying to fix it.


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 06:11 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Matthew

Quote by: Beeps

That step on Supply Crates because they don't realize they're there? It would give some incentive to stop them.


If crate drops weren't directly tied into the amount of real life money donated to the Island, I'd be okay with this.

But- no. I can't say I like that idea in the least.

edit: So, yeah. Popular opinion, so far, seems to be nixing onslaught but keeping some incarnation of Titans.



The idea wasn't that they would knowingly go for the crates, or that they would consistently remove them. If a new system continued to have a "They appear to be headed (Northwest)!" indication, anyone close enough could easily scour the area in front of them and clear a path. The idea was mostly so that they weren't just odd bits of scenery that you could attack. That said, the req payoffs may be enough incentive.

The destruction could also explain why there was still a reward for taking them down. Rewarding killing giant creatures who seem happy just wandering harmlessly around doesn't make much sense to me.


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Awesome Fred
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 06:15 AM UTC  
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Honestly, while it doesn't do my desire of keeping Reinforcement relevant, having higher-health Titans as just odd bits of scenery with the reward money only coming when it's killed seems like a decent way of keeping them in. Titans are big, can be community challenges (if the LotGD coding for Attack/Defense/HP wasn't so imbalanced so that strong players can solo while weak players can't earn 0.1 req), and be periodic but not constant rewards of money.


 
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Count Sessine
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 06:22 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

My quickie proposition is to remove monster numbers, and have Titans take down a flat numerical amount of wall HP equal to the remaining health of the titan when they arrive at the outpost (and does it again on each hour that it's still not killed while above a city). That way, walls and reinforcement exist, and titans exist, but places don't get Breached easily. When places are breached, it should just be like a flat number of mobs (500?) that need to be killed before the city can be raised again?

This is a promising notion! I would rather not see Titans become extinct; the joint-combat feature is very cool. I'd miss them.

Scorpio, in my localhost system I've tested a travel link from the jungle that's simple and seems to work fine. I may have missed seeing some reason it's actually more complicated than that, though.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 07:43 AM UTC  
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I, personally, absolutely LOVE onslaught, especially breaches. It is far and away my favorite part of the gameplay. I love the frenetic pace, the crap shoot that is what level monster i'll get, everything. Absolute loads of fun. I'd be heartbroken to see it disappear. Do I have a solution that'll keep everyone happy? No. Do I have a solution that'll keep me happy? Yep. Up the rate at which monsters enter the outpost. Crank it through the ceiling. That seems to be the opposite of what you're going for, though...


 
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Awesome Fred
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 07:47 AM UTC  
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I love Onslaught in Improbable Central. I hate it in CC404.

That is its problem.


 
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dizzyizzy
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 08:05 AM UTC  
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Ooh, I just had an idea that might make me and everyone else happyish...


What if when one outpost fell, the monsters that are attacking other ones quit and went to the breached one? It would make breached outposts more difficult to clear out, but it would also push players towards working together more, since all the defenders would also end up concentrated there?


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 08:10 AM UTC  
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Quote by: dizzyizzy

Ooh, I just had an idea that might make me and everyone else happyish...


What if when one outpost fell, the monsters that are attacking other ones quit and went to the breached one? It would make breached outposts more difficult to clear out, but it would also push players towards working together more, since all the defenders would also end up concentrated there?



If I might offer a similar-but-different suggestion?

Rather than shutting the town down, have the onslaught be the other way around. Have waves of monsters in the jungle. When players aren't keeping the monster count down, the city defenders have a harder time keeping up. The worse it gets, the more likely to have stronger monsters and longer waves. The rookie opt-out would keep the waves to the level of the player, and the waves to single monsters.

Of course, this idea sounds like a shitload of code.


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Awesome Fred
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 08:14 AM UTC  
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Making breached outposts more difficult to clear out would do the total opposite of solving the problem. We want to be able to access Cyber City and New Pittsburgh.

And the theory falls short of what we've seen, which is that players will abandon that one city instead of hope that they can coordinate their efforts to take them down.

Remember, most titans aren't taken down by a group effort, but key badass veteran players.


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 08:17 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Making breached outposts more difficult to clear out would do the total opposite of solving the problem. We want to be able to access Cyber City and New Pittsburgh.

And the theory falls short of what we've seen, which is that players will abandon that one city instead of hope that they can coordinate their efforts to take them down.

Remember, most titans aren't taken down by a group effort, but key badass veteran players.


Sorry, let me clarify - I mean that the jungle monsters are more difficult and come in waves. The thing people are saying they'd miss is the ability to slog through 60 monsters of a random level. So without proper population control, the jungles are swarming with monsters, possibly more difficult (with matching rewards), but the outposts are left intact. It's just dangerous to go outside.


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Iriana
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 08:37 AM UTC  
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I only have nine DKs, so I'm not at the point where I need breaches to grind XP and I've never even made a scratch on a Titan. Well, maybe a very small one. But of course then the Titan squished me.

I think I posted this earlier--breaches bore me because there's nothing to read. I feel like I'm fighting for empty numbers, since there are no monster descriptions, and it seems kind of pointless to be whaling away at a Level 17 monster when I don't even get to see what I'm fighting. Titans don't interest me because I know I can't even make a dent. Outposts under siege are an annoyance rather than a challenge--the banks seem to be perpetually closed up north and I don't have the chronos or stats to single-handedly open them up again.

This is because I don't have the equipment and experience that many of the veteran breach-breakers do. People with many DKs and people with two must feel very differently about Onslaught and Titans--I feel like Onslaught could be fun, but it's not for everyone. I wish I had some concrete suggestions, but I'm afraid I don't. I voted to scrap it, partly because I can't come up with a way to make it better and so far it looks like it's not working as well as we'd all like.


 
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Awesome Fred
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 08:55 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

Quote by: Awesome+Fred

Making breached outposts more difficult to clear out would do the total opposite of solving the problem. We want to be able to access Cyber City and New Pittsburgh.

And the theory falls short of what we've seen, which is that players will abandon that one city instead of hope that they can coordinate their efforts to take them down.

Remember, most titans aren't taken down by a group effort, but key badass veteran players.


Sorry, let me clarify - I mean that the jungle monsters are more difficult and come in waves. The thing people are saying they'd miss is the ability to slog through 60 monsters of a random level. So without proper population control, the jungles are swarming with monsters, possibly more difficult (with matching rewards), but the outposts are left intact. It's just dangerous to go outside.



Sorry, Beeps, my reply was meant to be targeted towards Dizzyizzy's.


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 08:59 AM UTC  
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Ah, I see. I think her idea does still have some merit - It means that one outpost would be swamped, but you'd no longer have issues with Acehigh, CC4040, New Pittsburgh, and Squat Hole being under attack at once. The only problem with it that I see is what happens when another outpost is breached? All the monsters in the current one vanish, leaving everyone who was defending it looking baffled.


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Sydney Fletcher
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 09:28 AM UTC  
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I think I'm in pretty much the same boat as most everyone else. I could live perfectly happily without Onslaught, but I would be sorry to see the Titans go. Admittedly I don't really do much to help take them down, and I do think they can get super overwhelming and super high-hitpointed at times, but it is pretty neat to have giant beasties wandering the Island and to be able to fight them with friends. I think I would be perfectly happy if they only kept giving you req, and maybe Hall o'Fame TITAN SLAYER points for bragging purposes. No need to have 'em go after outposts at all.


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 09:30 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Sydney++Fletcher

I think I'm in pretty much the same boat as most everyone else. I could live perfectly happily without Onslaught, but I would be sorry to see the Titans go. Admittedly I don't really do much to help take them down, and I do think they can get super overwhelming and super high-hitpointed at times, but it is pretty neat to have giant beasties wandering the Island and to be able to fight them with friends. I think I would be perfectly happy if they only kept giving you req, and maybe Hall o'Fame TITAN SLAYER points for bragging purposes. No need to have 'em go after outposts at all.


This does seem to be the general consensus. A few ideas have been put out there for ways to change the breach mechanics, but they all sound like they'd be a bigger hassle than the current big project on the table, and none of them are definite solutions.


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Matthew
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 09:43 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Iriana

People with many DKs and people with two must feel very differently about Onslaught and Titans


This is actually a very good point. Breaches might have "FREE EXP!" written all over them to veterans (I'll admit, I'll be sad to lose the source of exp-flowing-like-water if Onslaught goes, but I think the benefits really outweigh that) but it's outright dangerous and just frustrating to most players. Doubly-so because it just feels so arbitrary.


 
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Beeps
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 09:47 AM UTC  
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This was why I suggested the "rampaging monsters in the jungle" idea - To try to make it so long-time players still have something they can rely on for the mechanic that's in flux.


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dizzyizzy
 Saturday, January 08 2011 @ 10:19 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Beeps

Ah, I see. I think her idea does still have some merit - It means that one outpost would be swamped, but you'd no longer have issues with Acehigh, CC4040, New Pittsburgh, and Squat Hole being under attack at once. The only problem with it that I see is what happens when another outpost is breached? All the monsters in the current one vanish, leaving everyone who was defending it looking baffled.



His. His idea.

And I don't think it'd be baffling...

As soon as one goes down, there could be a bit of flavor text like "a fierce call carries over the wind, and the monsters attacking the wall turn and rush off towards *fill in outpost that has been breeched*."

Except better written.


But that's all besides the point. The main issue here is is my username really that girly?


 
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