Enquirer Home Page | Twitter | Back to Improbable Island

 Forum Index > Season Two > Feature Requests, Ideas and Feedback New Topic Post Reply
 Let's Talk About Stats
 |  Printable Version
Hairy Mary
 Saturday, January 22 2011 @ 11:23 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 1083

I wouldn't swear to this, but I'm pretty sure that midget rage increases according to how many HP you lose as a percentage of the total, so if you have 200 HP total, you need to lose 200 HP to get rage. (So obviously you must have had some form of healing in the middle.)

I'm less sure about this, but I thought that chem pack worked in a similar way, if you're 20% down on your total HP in a given round, then your chem pack charge increases by 20 pts.

This is how I use large HP, you have more room for maneuver, and can afford to stay on about 60 - 70% of your total, thus charging up your chempack faster. If you only have 10 - 20 HP total, then you can't really afford to start with less than full HP.

I also think that the while the damage you receive is a function of your HP, it isn't linear. That is to say, that while having twice the HP means you get more damage, it doesn't mean that you get twice as much damage. A small amount of extra HP doesn't affect damage received. Given that the chempack does heal at a rate proportional to your HP, it becomes a bit more effective at high HP levels.

I'd also say that while you're right, having a method to shed unwanted excess HP might be a bit of a band-aid, given that there isn't going to be a major overhaul until the next season, it might be worthwhile having that band aid in the meantime.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Bakemaster
 Saturday, January 22 2011 @ 07:33 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 226

Quote by: tehdave

First off, note that I didn't write Effective Time to Live for the HP section. That's because in Improbable Island, it seems we experience the weird phenomenon where as we gain health, the enemy's damage simply scales up with it. That means that HP doesn't directly help our survival within a fight.


I tend to think this experience is more a product of variable rank, RNG, and confirmation bias than of actual game mechanics. I definitely feel my survivability on any rank is higher with my increased HP. One thing to consider is that when you've got 20 hp, if something hits you for 80 damage, you're less likely to store in your memory the acknowledgement of an 80-damage hit than you are to simply remember, "I had 20 hp and got killed in one hit" which carries the vague implication of "20+" damage but not a hard number. Whereas if you've got 100 hp, you're going to remember every 80-damage hit pretty clearly because you associate the event not just with death, but also the number of HP you had if you survived, the cost of healing back to full, how much more HP you'd have needed if you didn't survive, etc. So I think there might be some confirmation bias at work here.

In any case, since S3 is going to generally scrap and rebuild these mechanics into something new, why dwell on the status quo? Let's all propose some general goals for a new system and see if we can come to any consensus about what we love and what we don't.

Combat-related things Bakemaster would love to see in S3:
  1. A greater number of fundamental character stats (e.g. att/def/max hp), with sillier names.
    WHY: Adds more potential for depth not only in combat, but in equipment and stat allocation as well; allows players to customize their character's performance to match their RP; I like silly names.
    EXAMPLE: Beef (brute-force damage inflicted), Aim (precision damage inflicted, accuracy), Zip (order of combat, enemy accuracy), Ugly (damage taken, encounter rate), Improbability (luck, or perhaps random effects)

  2. No derived stats (e.g. bonus att/def).
    WHY: They're not intuitive and don't add much value compared to simpler mechanics.
    EXAMPLE: Just add bonuses directly to the effective (displayed) stat, as occurs when you equip an item.

  3. Variable survivability vs. particular enemies or categories of enemies based on equipment choice and stat allocation.
    WHY: Allows players to better integrate how they RP their character with how it performs; adds more potential for depth in combat; makes the game more challenging for high-DK players, without just making things impossibly strong.
    EXAMPLE: A burninator or chainsaw make quick work of Gestalt Treebranch; not so much the riot hammer. Characters who are particularly Beefy can take down Zombie Luciano Pavarotti without breaking a sweat, but if their Aim is poor they may have to run away from a Canadian Mosquito.

  4. More interesting challenges from dojo masters.
    WHY: They're some of the most boring fights in the game. If DK progress depends on level, shouldn't these encounters be more unique?
    EXAMPLE: Win your first level-up by answering a random question about the Island correctly. Win your fourth by proving you're no pushover; survive ten rounds against your master, totally nude! Another dojo master has a craving for a particular delicacy from a random outpost; once you've got enough exp, you must deliver the food item as a bribe.

  5. Ability to permanently reallocate stats.
    WHY: People's characters change. Maybe you were a Beefy midget for a while, and you want to RP as a Joker after your latest DK - you'd want less Beef and more Improbability. Even with the current system of att/def/max hp, this would be a wonderful feature.
    EXAMPLE: When the game asks you to choose where to put your bonus point after a DK, you could also reallocate points. Maybe just one point, or maybe unlimited points. Maybe up to three per DK.


Unofficial Improbable Island out-of-character chat is at irc.foonetic.net, channel #iisland - come on by!
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Sunday, January 23 2011 @ 03:18 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

Either I didn't notice it change, or I tested it when I had 200 HP--I was completely wrong and Hairy Mary's right about the Chemical Pack. It seems percentage of deficit, not the deficit itself.

I was wondering if it was confirmation bias myself, Bakemaster. I tilted away from thinking it was that because it seemed that everyone I talked to felt that one got hit harder at higher HPs. But it's possible that it's not true.

You're right. Let's just say what we want to see. I'll have to come up with my own points later, but for yours:

I love suggestion #1.

I fully agree with suggestion #2.

I would be happy to see #3, but that's starting to get into the territory of much more work for CMJ, no?

I'm neither here nor there about #4--sounds fun and interesting, but I'm fine with it as it stands. At least not everybody is saying, "HAY DID U HERE TAHT GUTH LEFT?!!!!1" Oh, Guth. Good times. Someone needs to write him a Monster Submission.

I disagree with #5. I like the permanence of your past stat points. It means that your past has shaped your present, and so provides a sense of corporeality to your character. Being able to respec easily makes the DK point selection uninteresting. If you always play Defensively, it makes sense that your character doesn't mesh well with performing as a glass-skinned robot.

Well, except for the part where Defense equals agility and not toughness in the game's current explanation. But bonuses can be moved around or changed if visions change.


I'll think about some to add later, but I'll say this:

I want to see almost no gear providing a percentage bonus to a stat. Percentages break linear scaling and cause the massive gaps between old and new players in terms of combat effectiveness. The only time I think they'd mesh would be if they're really low percentage bonuses so that characters who immensely out-stat the highest gear, and even then, I think we could just get enough gear together where players wouldn't be able to reasonably do that in the first place. Either make it all percentages or make it all linear stat increases.

Okay, I got one more before I go: Ammo Packs. None of this silly sell-your-helmet-and-your-gun-is-recharged. Let's just purchase extra ammo or batteries at non-trivial prices to use that superior gear for longer. If I'm out of Shotgun Shells and I've got another 50 fights in me, I'm going back to Sheila's and buying an extra box of shells, using that up, getting another box... or even buy the boxes ahead of time and use it from my inventory when I run out.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Maniak
 Sunday, January 23 2011 @ 11:01 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 298

1. A Rock/Paper/Scissor system would provide adequate depth. Lots of RTS-games use it, with great success. Blunt (defense & health, endurance), Sharp (aim, attack, speed), Improbability (charm, encounter rate, luck). Improbability could change after each DK, making future DKs actually harder instead of easier. It can change according to weather, terrain..

2. Agreed, show only the final number and use that to calc damage done/received. Bonus modifiers (buffs) are fine, perhaps specified in a way the stamina system does now. Click your def, a window pops up showing what modifiers are active.

3. See 1.

4. You say Dojo masters are the most boring fights, but I only see each Dojo master once every DK. I don't think they're boring, they are high-stake fights. I see plenty boring monsters in between levels though. Your suggestions would push Dojo masters in the Something Improbable/Quests area.

5. Some flavours of LotGD allow this, I personally don't see the point.

As far as percentage bonuses, I rather like it. But a +300% attack is rather overpowered, isn't it? The flatrate deal max X damage per Y rounds, with a max of Z per round is better. And how about some competition for Sheila? Let the Watcher, or a minion therefor, set up shop on the Failboat, buy weapons for favour. Like the current Blessed weapons/armour, that can help the Roo- Failboat Inclined Contestants.

Because that's one thing - the difficulty curve. The beginning of the game is the hardest part, it gets progressively easier as you scale the DK-ladder.

Oh, and seconding ammo box. Selling and buying my pink panties is fun, but it is cheating. Maybe even a 'you found something!' event.


http://maniak.cu.cc/
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Hairy Mary
 Sunday, January 23 2011 @ 12:51 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 1083

I'm not sure that I've properly understood you here Bakemaster, but aren't 1) and 2) opposite sides of the same coin? Base attack and bonus attack are different, so call them different names to make that more clear? Same for defence.

3) would be nice, but sounds like a lot of work. Using a lightning gun when in river or sea would be...inadvisable. Smile

4) Dojo masters don't take up that much time, I don't think that it would be that much of an addition.

5) Maybe limited ability to reallocate stats, you can reallocate one bonus per DK maybe? I'm not massively addicted to this idea.

I do like the ammo idea. At the moment, Kittymorphs especially need only buy and sell frilly knickers to recharge, costing less than 20 req I think it is, depending on charm. That's really as many rounds as you like as long as you don't go to far from an outpost.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Wongo the Sane
 Sunday, January 23 2011 @ 04:59 PM UTC  
Forum Badass
Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 05/14/10
Posts: 104

Gonna input my 2p for the Hitpoints argument; in S1 we had Ella's Dance Studio in Kittania which allowed the shedding of Max HP for Charm.

I also remember that the max discount you could get for charm was un-capped, and seem to recall that the cap was put in place to prevent abuse of the gifting system of the day - now dead.
Were there more reasons for capping the Charm Discount? Or would a return of Ellas make a worthy stop-gap?


 
Profile Email
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Sunday, January 23 2011 @ 06:12 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

So, I just found out a useful feature of the Raven Inn.

I can find out about "my enemies".

Teh Dave has 464 health at level 6.
Zpatula has 840 at 13, around me.

Jakell, our most visible Island Titanslayer, has 4332 health. Eek! Is there something good about having more health? Or is it just force of habit to get more?


 
Profile Email
Quote
Bakemaster
 Sunday, January 23 2011 @ 07:57 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 226

@Hairy Mary: I think you're picking up what I'm throwing down. I split 'em up because maybe someone likes bonuses and also wants more stats. Or hates bonuses but likes having only attack and defense to consider.

@Fred, re: hitpoints, consider that certain events in the Common Grounds (and elsewhere) give you a full heal regardless of your max hp. If you've got thousands and are on a low rank, you might be able to use an entire day of stamina fighting without ever having to heal, and with no regen. That would be nice. And re: stat reallocation, there's plenty of wiggle room - like Hairy Mary said, maybe you only get to move around 1 stat point per DK, so if you spent your first 12 DKs going HELLA BEEFY and then you unlock Joker and want to be HELLA IMPROBABLE, the best you could do was -1 Beefy, +2 Improbable every time you DK ('cause you get one bonus and one reallocation).

ALTERNATIVELY, your choice of race could be tied to your choice of stat. That would integrate backstory with gameplay, in that it's said people turn into jokers because they become so infused with improbability. On the other hand, it would take away people's ability to RP a particularly improbable kittymorph or a super-gangly midget, if they so chose... So I dunno how much I like that one now I think about it.

@Maniak, re: dojo masters: No matter what my rank is, once I get jumped by my dojo master, I hit "T" and move on. Yes, even on BAAASTARD. The fact that you lose your special abilities doesn't make the fight harder so much as more boring. Unless you're a low-DK kittymorph, maybe. Failure just means you wait until the next day and try again; they never failboat you, and even give you a full healing when they hunt you down. All this is why I feel there's definitely room for these milestones in a DK to be more interesting/significant.

MOAR BRAINSTORMING! And remember that when you're brainstorming, you turn off your internal editor! These are ideas for Season 3, which is going to be running on a Spanky New Engine, so if you think something would be really cool, forget about how much work it would be to code. There is no release deadline, and the worst that can happen is that Dan is all, "Sorry, nope, too much code, brains coming out nose/ears!"

I think the issue of whether we want a linear, or percentile, or mixed system - or something else entirely - is an interesting subject but also a very difficult one to think about. On the other hand it's probably that much harder to think about other mechanics without knowing what kind of stat system they'd hook into. WHAT IF: Instead of starting off at 1 attack, 1 defense, 10 hp, you started with 50 points in each of [whatever stats there are]? If there are four stats, that's a total of 250 points; you could have an individual cap (100?) and a total cap (350?). If you get 1 bonus point per DK, that means you stop getting bonus stats after (100?) DKs; or you start getting some kind of OTHER bonus at that point (such as reallocation ability, which would let you go BELOW 50 points in one stat to really beef up another). A well-rounded 100-DK character could have (70?) points in all five stats, or be more specialized.

WOULD this make things like bonuses and equipment choices any easier? We wouldn't have the headache of considering how a chainsaw on a 1/1 rookie is different from a chainsaw on a 50/50 veteran. He's got 50 times the stats of that other guy! That seems hard to balance, to me.

AM I going off the deep end in terms of how big a change is realistic for Season 3? Is the idea of reworking the stats of every item in Sheila's just too much? We've got a lot of brainpower here to help with doing the gruntwork, if Dan should choose to delegate some of the nitty-gritty details to the playerbase (as it seems he *might* be willing to do, given the existence of Improbable Labs). But I HAVE been KNOWN to become OVEREXCITED and use SHOUTY LETTERS at times, FELLOW FOLK. So as long as I'm just brainstorming wildly and have not been told otherwise I'mma assume the sky's the limit, my feelings will not be hurt at all if these ideas go in the circular file.


Unofficial Improbable Island out-of-character chat is at irc.foonetic.net, channel #iisland - come on by!
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Bakemaster
 Tuesday, January 25 2011 @ 12:10 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 226

I guess there's an expiration on editing permissions; please forgive the double-post.

As I was driving home from campus today it occurred to me that the more complicated monster design becomes, the greater potential barrier there is to user-submitted enemies. I think user-submitted enemies are awesome; they take some of the weight of content creation off the backs of the game administrators while simultaneously giving every user a chance at bringing their own unique content into the game. That's awesome, it's one of the great assets of dwellings and story chat and clans, and I wouldn't choose to toss it out the window for any glossy new mechanic.

Not that I don't still want some cool combat mechanic. Just a thought that I wanted to share about another priority that might need balancing with any increase in the complexity of what exactly constitutes a monster (currently seems to be flavor text, carcass info, and targeted fighting options for some - though there may be stats hidden from the end user as well?)


Unofficial Improbable Island out-of-character chat is at irc.foonetic.net, channel #iisland - come on by!
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Swede
 Saturday, February 05 2011 @ 06:37 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass


Status: offline

Registered: 05/27/10
Posts: 127

I didn't want to complain about this but it's been bugging me for some time so I'll write it here and maybe I'm not alone in this.

At the start of the game I made a plan for Swede. Big tough fellow, can take a lot.
So I invested my DK points in hitpoints.
Reading this topic I've already come to terms that I've wasted 20 DK points by investing them in hitpoints.
...
...
Sorry wasted effectively 10 DK points.
I say 10, because Tynan only gives 1 attack (or defence) for 10 HP's.
Now I'm already losing a days worth of stamina for each visit to the gym, but am also "punished" by a worse exchange rate?

Is it possible to make it 1 attack (defence) for 5HP? The same amount one gets for an invested DK point
Or am I ranting here?


 
Profile Email
Quote
Sneaky
 Saturday, February 05 2011 @ 08:04 PM UTC  
Forum Contender
Contender

Status: offline

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 69

Quote by: Swede

I didn't want to complain about this but it's been bugging me for some time so I'll write it here and maybe I'm not alone in this.

At the start of the game I made a plan for Swede. Big tough fellow, can take a lot.
So I invested my DK points in hitpoints.
Reading this topic I've already come to terms that I've wasted 20 DK points by investing them in hitpoints.
...
...
Sorry wasted effectively 10 DK points.
I say 10, because Tynan only gives 1 attack (or defence) for 10 HP's.
Now I'm already losing a days worth of stamina for each visit to the gym, but am also "punished" by a worse exchange rate?

Is it possible to make it 1 attack (defence) for 5HP? The same amount one gets for an invested DK point
Or am I ranting here?



Or lessen the stamina costs?


http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/560/004/989.gif
 
Profile Email
Quote
Maniak
 Saturday, February 05 2011 @ 08:22 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 298

I partially agree with you Swede, the added Hitpoints aren't the best choice to spend DK points. But they're not a complete waste, and you can still RP a big tough fellow. Invest your next DK points in off/def and continue growing your character.

But is there any use to investing DK points in health? You get 5 charm for killing the drive. Spend that charm at the gauntlet and you'll walk away with the same health increase.

In my opinion there is only one way to invest the points, and that's offense. There are some 20 or 30 ways to add a buff to your offense, and maybe half that number for defense. Play it right, and you'll rarely have a use for your def.

And by the way, Jakell, the toughest contestant on the Island? I'm pretty sure he turns a lot of that health into power at Tynan's.

Base attack/def are the most important stats for combat, health isn't so important anymore after you're past 100 extra. After that point, your clan aura can reflect a good amount to possibly kill your enemy.


http://maniak.cu.cc/
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Bakemaster
 Sunday, February 06 2011 @ 01:54 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 226

So, is that all the brainstorming people are interested in doing? Really? Or is everyone just totally satisfied with the way stats currently work, and can't think of any ways the system could be improved?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, after all.


Unofficial Improbable Island out-of-character chat is at irc.foonetic.net, channel #iisland - come on by!
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Swede
 Sunday, February 06 2011 @ 09:53 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 05/27/10
Posts: 127

Quote by: Count+Sessine

What would it make sense to trade hit points for? There's always Tynan's gym, of course.... but that's only temporary.


I'll bring up this quote to try to explain myself better. I don't think Tynan's Gym is a good option to trade HP... but as far as I know it's the only option.

Tynan charges 10hp (equal to 2DK's) for a one point change in attack or defence
The other way around, 1 attack gives 10hp. Invest 1DK from attack to get 2DK in hitpoints.

In my opinion for Tynan to be a good option is that the HP cost should be 5. Equal to what one gets when investing a DK-point in HP. (Or that investing a DK-point in HP should give players 10 hitpoints, but that might make a to big of change)

I'm bringing this up to see if there are people who agree with me. Otherwise consider this just me venting off some steam. Mr. Green


@Sneak:
It isn't that stamina cost, but more the stat cost.

@Maniak
I've been doing so ever since I discovered the HP didn't do as much as I hoped. And while I agree that offence seems to be the strongest stat, I do like defence. You need a decent base for that forcefield to work Wink


 
Profile Email
Quote
Maniak
 Sunday, February 06 2011 @ 12:01 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 298

Quote by: Bakemaster

So, is that all the brainstorming people are interested in doing? Really? Or is everyone just totally satisfied with the way stats currently work, and can't think of any ways the system could be improved?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, after all.



It's pretty difficult to brainstorm on something that we don't know how it works. And CMJ already explicitly stated that the whole thing is going out the window.

Anyway, let's have a peek behind the correct curtain. This is what I came up with:
Right now, combat is influenced by your attack, your def, your attack and def modifiers.The badguy, as monsters are referred to, have the same. For the player, atk and def mods are buffs. For the badguy, atk and def modifiers can be influenced by iitems such as Zap grenades and monster repellents. Targeted fighting can also modify it (pocket protector, anyone?). Higher ranks work by adding an invisible buff that lowers your def and atk mods.

That's it. Just you, your mods against a badguy. No skill or thinking required. The quick peek I had didn't reveal much about how health comes into the mix, so I suspect that damage is indeed a function of health.

What's gonna happen with combat in S3? I don't know. Odds are, neither does CMJ.

What needs to be addressed? For one, the difficulty curve. New players have a hard time, all the way up to level 10. Twenty drivekills in, you need a rank 5 or 6 for a similar experience. Remember, this is the era of handholding tutorials and video montages. What's the type of player Improbable Island caters to, the hardcore gamer or the roleplayer? That brings us to point two.

Skill. At low ranks, none of this is required. If you just want an easy ride, pick a low difficulty rank and spam fights. I think this is the source of the entire 'fighting is boring'-cry but it does help pure roleplayers that don't care about killing the drive. Search Big trouble, fight To the Death. Easy. Boring as a result.

Pick your own difficulty. I have to say, this is done correctly. The difficulty ranks scale up nicely. I play Improbable Island mainly as a rhythm game, I pick a rank that's difficult for me and actively depend on timed fighting. Without it, I die. It's a ton of fun. If you have the skill/will/metronome to do timed fighting you can save some stamina as well.

What I'd like? Well, some strategy into the mix. X is stronger than Y, Y is stronger than Z, Z is stronger than X. Rock, paper, scissor. Call em what you will, but more variables. Stuff that makes us think and pick a strategy.

Longer battles that are high stake and require skill. The game code already allows for multiple enemies at once, so how about mobs. A strong boss, with some minions. Kill through the minions first, in the similar way a breach works, then beat the boss. If you're level 7, you first fight monsters that are level 1 through 7, then a final boss that's similar to a Magpie/Mutant or level 9 monster. You die, you get send to the failboat with 20% exp loss, none of this Mutant that kills you but you're still alive.

Alternatively, something that uses targeted fighting. At first, it's a strong, nearly unbeatable monster. Until you remove its weapon. But you still can't kill it, until you take its shield. Then his legs, all the way until you can get to the core.

These are battles that would be a few minutes, rather than the few seconds a battle takes now. Time invested is a high stake too!


http://maniak.cu.cc/
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Monday, February 07 2011 @ 05:28 AM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

I like some of Maniak's suggestions, I agree with Swede on that the HP is improperly balanced against DKs at Tynan's Gym, and there's more that should be said about stats, Bakemaster, I've just been away from Improbable Island for a week other than a glance at the forums every now and then.

I'll eventually try for another big post.

And Maniak, we should be brainstorming because we need to give CMJ ideas for Season 3.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Monday, February 07 2011 @ 02:43 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

Oh no, it's another double post!

So I was thinking even moreso about the current combat as a whole rather than all-around new mechanics. Sorry, I'll get on that, but I want to say for now:

Any sorts of percentage bonuses that do make it into Season 3 should be additive, not multiplicative. Right now, most buffs appear to increase your Attack or Defense by the value of Attack + Bonus Attack and Defense + Bonus Defense. It should simply be based off your Attack or Defense and get added to the Bonus ATK/DEF. If I have two sources of 10% attack buff, it should be 20% more attack, not 21% more attack.

If I'm wrong about the current state of the buffs, lemme tell you, some buffs must be way too powerful in that case.

Also, as I said in the Alcoholism thread, the duration of most buffs feels really small once you get away from the first DKs and gain hunting skill. The only buffs that feel like they last a significant amount of time are the Force Generator, Plasma Gun, and the big weapons and armor around those durations. But that's also partly because those items also make me go through many fights with few rounds of combat, and Hunting takes a lot more stamina than Fighting. When I'm fighting a titan, no buff lasts long enough except for the Clan Buff (and the WHOOMPH grenade).

Continually re-getting the same buffs isn't the end of the world, but it's not very streamlined at all when you keep leaving and reentering the Jungle every 4 fights for drinks or whatnot, and the Ferryman's Song nor the Cake Buff ever feel worth getting because they're only 10 rounds and carry a risk. In fact, smoking is one of my favorite buffs because it's usually around 100 rounds for a sizable-but-not-overpowering buff, with a heavy drawback, not to mention a Cig cost. Those 100 rounds go away but not before I go through plenty of fights, and I have to weigh out whether I want to take another drag and risk a stronger nicotine addiction later or go through the rest of the day's combat without the buff. Furthermore, applying the smoking buff is easy--I don't need to even leave the Jungle to reapply it.

I'm thinking that maybe shorter-term buffs might actually be better off as inventory items that you activate in a pinch (low health, Magpie/Quest fight), while any buffs that can't really be 'carried' (Warm Fuzzies, Heroic Valor) should become longer. Well, Heroic Valor actually can stay at 20, since it's really meant for the Drive.

Lastly on buff durations, I reiterate again: please, please, please give ammo refills and battery recharges. People should be able to carry them around so even if buffs aren't changed on the baseline, weapons like Shotguns and armors like the healing Combat Armours seem much more useful.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Awesome Fred
 Monday, February 07 2011 @ 03:00 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 586

Oh, c'mon! That edit window is TINY!

Okay, fine, triple post. Bite me. I just wanted to get the quote from where CMJ said it on the Improbable Labs:

Combat... ain't no point in optimizing it, it's gonna get ripped out anyway, completely, along with everything that ever interacted with it. The current combat system is boring, no matter what fancy items I throw in there.


He said it's going to get rebuilt from scratch as well. That means that giant overhaul suggestions are completely valid. We need more brainstorming.


 
Profile Email
Quote
kireikatt
 Monday, February 07 2011 @ 03:31 PM UTC  
Forum Contestant
Contestant

Status: offline

Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 18

I'd love to see a few more stats, or even a stat specific to each race in addition to the current att/def. As it is, yes, combat is terribly boring. I only bother with it because I prefer to do my character changes at the end/beginning of DK's, as it gives me some kind of structure. As for the idea of having stats that we can rearrange, I like that idea, but I'd also like to see something tied to the races (as to how your attribute points get distributed), such as Zombies with higher stam, Kittymorphs having higher dex, Jokers higher improbability, but still giving people the option to make, for example, a character with higher dex AND improbability, for us Jokermorph types.


 
Profile Email
Quote
Maniak
 Monday, February 07 2011 @ 04:23 PM UTC  
Forum Improbable Badass
Improbable Badass

Status: offline

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 298

Frankly, with 4 pubs spread across the island and your quest monsters always in a 5th, it's quite cumbersome to do all that train traveling just for the buffs. But it's a valid tactic/playstyle. Considering the effort it takes, I think this is a good way to temporarily be a strong player, without abusing game mechanics.

I like your suggestion from the first post in the alcoholism thread , let buffs become stronger the more you use them. Add drawbacks to make it more interesting. Buffs stack, you're right about that. So each consecutive drink is more powerful, causing a steep drop once they start wearing off. Anyone ever used Dextro-energy or one of those sugary energy drinks? You're strong for 5 minutes, then you come tumbling down to earth. Maybe that can be used as a drawback? A strong buff for 50 rounds, an even stronger debuff for 5. Or viceversa. A super strong buff for 50, something weak like internal bleeding the next day.

I think the major problem with the stats are their interaction with each other. Why can I take significantly more damage than my maxhealth? Makes no sense, and this is just one of those things that really need a change. Having an insanely off-balance character compared to your DK-tally should be punished, but the current system is just wrong. Note that I said insanely off-balance, since this is Improbable Island, there should be room for eccentricity. (and we need titan slayers too)

There's still a world to be discovered in implants. I think most players use the chem pack and spatial awareness. People, do you not understand how awesome Servo arms are? I love the implants, and really hope they stay in one shape or form next season.

- Chem pack is useless for strong fighters, since it relies on slooowly charging it. If you plan on doing the slowest DK ever, use it.
- Spatial awareness gives a few req/day, let's say enough to heal for free 3 times. Standstill for use on the drive.
- Skullmounted laser.. I think the battery is quite weak on this. Good for new players and getting out of tough fights.
- Servo arms. Love 'em. The battery in this is more than enough to level up, and which point I get a new battery!
- Tesla Frame. Haven't used it enough and I keep losing the instruction manual. Rightfully the most difficult to use.

I can't think of many changes for this. Maybe as a robot, the ability to sacrifice some stamina for implant- or weapon battery power. That'll be awesome. Or other modules that interact with implants. A certain friendly but clumsy lady that bumps into you, and gives you a battery instead of a cig? How cool would that be?

That's about what I got for now.


http://maniak.cu.cc/
 
Profile Email Website
Quote
Content generated in: 1.65 seconds
New Topic Post Reply



 All times are UTC. The time is now 05:13 AM.

Normal Topic Normal Topic
Locked Topic Locked Topic
Sticky Topic Sticky Topic
New Post New Post
Sticky Topic W/ New Post Sticky Topic W/ New Post
Locked Topic W/ New Post Locked Topic W/ New Post
View Anonymous Posts 
Anonymous users can post 
Filtered HTML Allowed 
Censored Content