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Ebenezer
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 04:25 PM UTC  
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I am actually changing my mind, already, about the "too cluttery" thing. I am starting to think along the lines of . . . it might make Banter more efficient, to have only one Banter. I'd actually like to TRY it!

The worst that could happen is it's a terrible idea and everyone hates it and we've got to change it back, right? Right?


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 04:31 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Ebenezer

I am actually changing my mind, already, about the "too cluttery" thing. I am starting to think along the lines of . . . it might make Banter more efficient, to have only one Banter. I'd actually like to TRY it!

The worst that could happen is it's a terrible idea and everyone hates it and we've got to change it back, right? Right?



Can I perhaps propose something of compromise?

What if we did it like the noticeboard, but you have to pay five or ten supporter points a post.

I think global banter for all our banter spaces would be too hard to keep up with anyway. You get 25-30 people posting in a universal channel and it will be chaos

Edit: And that's just in New Home.


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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Anonymous: Escemfer
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 04:35 PM UTC  


Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

I have to ask, and again, I mean this as respectfully as possible; How often do you, who don't want banter in the Common Grounds, actually play there?



I am utterly and completely unoffended by this very legitimate question. Mr. Green My answer: rarely. Another question might be, how much would it honestly distress or inconvenience me to have Banter in the Common Grounds? Again: not very much, honestly.

I don't roleplay very much anymore in open spaces on the Island (such as Outposts or the CG). I will keep my reasons to myself, since they are not relevant to the argument at hand ("would Banter in the CG be beneficial"?). I do have a lot of opinions about the social and roleplaying culture of the Island; I tend to keep them to myself, though, because as someone who doesn't do much public roleplay, who really gives a damn what my opinion is? Wink

Since I spoke up, though, I'll clarify my standpoint: I appreciate the Island as a roleplaying space, and I like the idea of having an area that is easily-accessible to everyone everywhere and is clearly dedicated to actually roleplaying rather than socializing OOC. I figure, there are already seven common, accessible areas that have both Banter and Roleplay, and that seems sufficient to me. But, of course, that's my opinion, as someone who doesn't publicly roleplay or Banter very much!

Quote by: CavemanJoe

I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?



I don't see any reason why not to try it! it would be an interesting exercise, and if it fails dismally, we can presumably just go back to the system we already have?


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 04:50 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Escemfer

Quote by: Cherriki+Ten

I have to ask, and again, I mean this as respectfully as possible; How often do you, who don't want banter in the Common Grounds, actually play there?



I am utterly and completely unoffended by this very legitimate question. Mr. Green My answer: rarely. Another question might be, how much would it honestly distress or inconvenience me to have Banter in the Common Grounds? Again: not very much, honestly.

I don't roleplay very much anymore in open spaces on the Island (such as Outposts or the CG). I will keep my reasons to myself, since they are not relevant to the argument at hand ("would Banter in the CG be beneficial"?). I do have a lot of opinions about the social and roleplaying culture of the Island; I tend to keep them to myself, though, because as someone who doesn't do much public roleplay, who really gives a damn what my opinion is? Wink

Since I spoke up, though, I'll clarify my standpoint: I appreciate the Island as a roleplaying space, and I like the idea of having an area that is easily-accessible to everyone everywhere and is clearly dedicated to actually roleplaying rather than socializing OOC. I figure, there are already seven common, accessible areas that have both Banter and Roleplay, and that seems sufficient to me. But, of course, that's my opinion, as someone who doesn't publicly roleplay or Banter very much!

Quote by: CavemanJoe

I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?



I don't see any reason why not to try it! it would be an interesting exercise, and if it fails dismally, we can presumably just go back to the system we already have?



PFFFFETHBLPARGH! Of course your opinion matters, even if you don't play much outside of places. Your character's social habits on the island or even your preference shouldn't affect the importance of your opinion.

And I'm going to say here, for the record, I would probably turn off banter in CG because yes it is that roleplaying space. And that's what I would rather it be for. Not for people to post OoC.

Yes I am aware it happens in banter places anyway but not as much as I see in CG.

But then again, maybe I would leave it on. It's a good way to help out newcomers.


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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Ada
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 04:51 PM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?




Sounds great to me. Probably a hell of a lot easier to mod, makes banter more like an OOC community than a series of chatrooms attached to a game... Would probably encourage people not to just hang in NewHome all the time, too, because they can OOC chat to their friends anywhere (also makes it less lonely for banter-loving people to do things like work on their Places - right now Global is dead so they can't talk to anyone).


I do think Banter in Places should be left as-is, though, in case some players want to have a private OOC chatroom just for them and their friends.


 
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Full Metal Lion
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 04:56 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Ada
FML: just turn the blank column off, then. Razz

Either what we've got here is... failure to communicate, or you're agreeing with me in a confusing way. But either way, we seem to agree, so alright then. Big Grin

Quote by: Cherriki+Ten


Can I perhaps propose something of compromise?

What if we did it like the noticeboard, but you have to pay five or ten supporter points a post.

I think global banter for all our banter spaces would be too hard to keep up with anyway. You get 25-30 people posting in a universal channel and it will be chaos

Edit: And that's just in New Home.


I can safely say that idea is kind of terrible one. I bop around in Outposts with very few people, and the last thing I want to do is to pay real money to ask someone about their day on Global Banter or even regular Banter. And you'll get more OOC comments in Story, too.

I agree about the chaos though. Horrible, horrible, fun chaos. We should try the One-Banter thing for a day so I can insult people in Spanish from another Outpost. Unless it delays Place Items, or ad skins for Console and Classic, or programming Mementos, or literally anything else which we'll be able to keep around for a long time because it won't be so flooded with people as to be useless.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 05:03 PM UTC  
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Off the top of my head, I'm gonna guess that it'll be almost trivially easy to switch and switch back. Whether that'll hold true when I actually come to do it, we'll have to wait and see.


 
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Cherriki Ten
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 05:12 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Full+Metal+Lion

Quote by: Ada
FML: just turn the blank column off, then. Razz

Either what we've got here is... failure to communicate, or you're agreeing with me in a confusing way. But either way, we seem to agree, so alright then. Big Grin

Quote by: Cherriki+Ten


Can I perhaps propose something of compromise?

What if we did it like the noticeboard, but you have to pay five or ten supporter points a post.

I think global banter for all our banter spaces would be too hard to keep up with anyway. You get 25-30 people posting in a universal channel and it will be chaos

Edit: And that's just in New Home.


I can safely say that idea is kind of terrible one. I bop around in Outposts with very few people, and the last thing I want to do is to pay real money to ask someone about their day on Global Banter or even regular Banter. And you'll get more OOC comments in Story, too.

I agree about the chaos though. Horrible, horrible, fun chaos. We should try the One-Banter thing for a day so I can insult people in Spanish from another Outpost. Unless it delays Place Items, or ad skins for Console and Classic, or programming Mementos, or literally anything else which we'll be able to keep around for a long time because it won't be so flooded with people as to be useless.



Admittedly, yes, not one of my best or brightest.


"Optimist: Person who travels on nothing from nowhere to happiness." -Mark Twain.
 
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LydiaDefountain
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 06:08 PM UTC  
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Hmm Global banters?

hmmm I like the idea but it may case more of the so-and-so Narr needs to whatever-it-is because they just want to tell the few they are with...

or for places mostly I use banter for clarifying things like during a spar an where the hit was or other information that wasn't covered in recent posts but should be in effect or maybe a toggle for when you choose story and/or banter if the banter is private or global? that way people can opt to be a part of the chaotic insanity or not..


 
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Matthew
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 07:43 PM UTC  
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Personally, a global banter across ALL chat spaces seems like chaos.

I'm not against trying it though.


 
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Trowa
 Sunday, September 02 2012 @ 08:04 PM UTC  
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I can only imagine how weird it would be to see comments from dozens of players in Global Banter while in an outpost with only six people. "Wait...who's where again? Lemme check the list... Oh, now the page of Banter I was reading is gone."

Eh, what the hell? Could be worth a try. Smile


Something something unintelligible gibberish something.
 
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Boudi
 Monday, September 03 2012 @ 02:58 AM UTC  
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Quote by: CavemanJoe

I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?



Yes.

Honestly, seriously, yes. People involved in the scene can communicate with one another using it, still, but people in other outposts can be alerted if something cool is going on that has an open invite. Example: When I was new to the Island, I remember this big 'ole market happening in IC with Ebenezer, Teh Dave, and Marly, I believe. If I hadn't stumbled across it, I would have never known something cool was happening that I would love to join in on. People could post in one banter when they're doing a party, or the like, rather than traveling all over the Island to advertise (Sometimes, for some of those big clan shindigs, I wish they'd just rent out advertising space on the site for a week or something and you could hide it if you weren't interested, or something. Goodness).

It would help with new folk asking questions in banters in a far off land (CC404), so folks could answer them then and give a more supportive environment all over the Island, so newcomers don't feel they have to stay in NewHome or Kittania to have 'training wheels'.

I say do it, man. I hope it turns out well, instead of just ridiculous chaos.

But, as a question-- You mean all outpost Banter spaces, right? It wouldn't include dwellings banter spaces, I hope.


 
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CavemanJoe
 Monday, September 03 2012 @ 03:52 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Boudi

Quote by: CavemanJoe

I've been thinking for some time now about making all Banter spaces global. Or, at least, trying it out for a month or so.

Thoughts?



Yes.

Honestly, seriously, yes. People involved in the scene can communicate with one another using it, still, but people in other outposts can be alerted if something cool is going on that has an open invite. Example: When I was new to the Island, I remember this big 'ole market happening in IC with Ebenezer, Teh Dave, and Marly, I believe. If I hadn't stumbled across it, I would have never known something cool was happening that I would love to join in on. People could post in one banter when they're doing a party, or the like, rather than traveling all over the Island to advertise (Sometimes, for some of those big clan shindigs, I wish they'd just rent out advertising space on the site for a week or something and you could hide it if you weren't interested, or something. Goodness).

It would help with new folk asking questions in banters in a far off land (CC404), so folks could answer them then and give a more supportive environment all over the Island, so newcomers don't feel they have to stay in NewHome or Kittania to have 'training wheels'.

I say do it, man. I hope it turns out well, instead of just ridiculous chaos.

But, as a question-- You mean all outpost Banter spaces, right? It wouldn't include dwellings banter spaces, I hope.



At first, out of necessity it'd mean that all calls to dualchat() got re-written to include a global Banter. For the sake of the experiment, we'll be going with a blunt instrument. If it looks to be a successful experiment, then we can add things like Place-specific Banter later on. Smile


 
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Buddleia
 Monday, September 03 2012 @ 04:37 AM UTC  
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This thread keeps making me think.

First, about adding Banter to the CG, I thought "oh, yeah, awesome idea! Then there'd be a whole lot less OOC stuff in Story!". Then, reading all the excellent points made by so many people, I started thinking "oh, actually, yeah, the people who are going to add OOC in story tend to not know or care about not doing it anyway, so why bother..."

And then, the suggestion of one Global Banter instead of many Local Banters. At first I thought "oh god no, it'll be chaos with sixty people Bantering at once instead of the usual 30 in NH, 20 in KT and 10-or-so from everywhere else all suddenly thrown in to one channel".

And then, I stopped to think about that. Yes, there would be chaos. There would be howls of dismay from people who insist that they need Banter and can't possibly function without it. There would be great confusion from people trying to coordinate one scene mixed up with the people trying to coordinate another scene elsewhere and a third group in another town and the other several score folks chatting away with all their usual OOC stuff. It would be a painful transition, if we make it.

And yet. And yet. The Island did just fine before the introduction of Banter. Scenes still got coordinated; roleplay still happened without Major Misunderstandings which could only possibly have been worked out by a chat channel tied to the location. Nowdays, in the areas without Banter - the world map, the Commons, the pubs, many thousands of Rooms in Places - people still roleplay just fine. Scenes still get coordinated. Rookies still get welcomed and their questions answered. Location Four still gets a lot of use.

A lot of what I see in the Banter channels, particularly in the busy places, in my opinion does not really need to be posted into Improbable Island. Lots of one-word posts, lots of - let's be frank - somewhat inane chat. People are saying "hi" and "lol" and "bye", but also licking, nomming, groping, petting, hugging, bantercouch, and so on. Social noise rather than meaningful messages. Of course, there are also things like "sorry got to go in ten minutes, let's wrap up this scene soon", and "the box my character is offering yours is approximately six inches on a side. If you open it, it contains a confused badger" and "hey, people, event A is taking place at location B at time C! All welcome!" - I expect that everyone would agree that those are a fine use for Banter. But, a lot of what happens in Banter does not look to me as if it really really needs to be taking up Improbable Island server capacity. Some of it does, but not all. (Of course, that's my opinion, and I'm sure many of the people posting social messages like greetings and how their day went and so on would think that yes, it does need to be posted, and who am I to criticise them and try to silence them?)

Maybe, just maybe, if local Banter was removed, then after the initial overloading chaos and gnashing of teeth, then people would reconsider the purpose of a Banter channel, and start only posting in it if they think that their message really needs to be seen by everyone, and using GChat or AIM or MSN or an IRC channel or something for their semi-private socialising? Maybe? And maybe possibly this would free up 400 chat-pages worth of server space, and let the Island run a little faster?


Improbable Reference Links - goo.gl/MRBnb -------------- Land Registry (map of Places) ---- goo.gl/bpkRR
 
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Iriana
 Monday, September 03 2012 @ 05:23 AM UTC  
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Quote by: Buddleia

(lots of clever things)


Yes. Not that it's bad to discuss your personal life in great detail/grope/nom/bantercouch/scritch in an outposts's Banter with your closest group of Banter friends, but I'm guessing that that sort of thing might taper off a little if it were displayed for all the world to see. Just trying to keep up with all the groping/nomming/scritching would be madness with dozens of people all trying to use the same space. I'm certain some people would get tired of it.

Thing is, I can also see a large part of the Island throwing up their hands in frustration after a while of madness and saying "you know what, we don't really need Banter, we'll just use it every once in a blue moon", making this new global Banter very quiet. And the same people who use Banter most often (that is, people who play often in NewHome and Kittania) would then just move right back in to that quiet space and resume doing what they'd always done. It'd be one huge Kittania Banter, visible in every outpost.

Okay, now I sound like a jerk. I'm not saying that there's anything inherently wrong with how people use Banter in Kittania and NewHome. I may not love it, but since when was I the supreme arbiter of right and wrong on the internet? Never, that's when. But it's undeniable that people have different preferences as to what sort of content they like seeing in Banter (and Story) and globalizing that content may not make anyone happier.

That said, I'm all for trying it, in the name of science. I just humbly suggest posting a huge MOTD notifying me of when this experiment is happening, because I really have to see this.


 
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Matthew
 Monday, September 03 2012 @ 11:20 AM UTC  
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I think what would be helpful is a little text or graphical indication of which outpost the Banter is coming from.

Oh! Why not bring back the race icons? Like, if you type into Banter from, say, Kittania, maybe at the end of your comment is appended the little yarn ball, perhaps in a gender-neutral green or brown, I dunno.


 
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Iriana
 Monday, September 03 2012 @ 11:23 AM UTC  
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I was thinking this also, but I'd prefer text over graphical, since now everything in the commentary line is text.


 
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Sonny
 Monday, September 03 2012 @ 01:19 PM UTC  
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A lot of what got mentioned here reminds me of the reasons to include the Global Banter Rolling Eyes
Instant help for rookies! Connecting players from all the outposts! No cumbersome distracting! No getting everyone to change to the same IM-system-XY! Getting players to visit other outposts and still talking to their buddies! Wooohoo!

And now someone here said they hate the Global Banter! Why? How would the new thing be different from the existing Global, except now being flooded with comments and "inane" chat from all over the outposts?
How would you hate it less?

Go and use the existing global channel, pretty please, and make it the place it was intended to be instead of shunning it and complaining, hoping that the new shiny thing will turn the world into a fairy tale. Exclaimation
Because right now I'm pretty sure I will hate it when all the banters get mashed into one, and will make me at best ignore the bloody mess, and at the worst provide me with another excuse to stay the fucking hell away from the island.

Now try it if you want. But I just can't see how it would help anyone except those already posting a lot in the banters.


 
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Maniak
 Monday, September 03 2012 @ 04:16 PM UTC  
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Quote by: Buddleia

(Of course, that's my opinion, and I'm sure many of the people posting social messages like greetings and how their day went and so on would think that yes, it does need to be posted, and who am I to criticise them and try to silence them?)


I would say the socializing, inane as it may appear, is one of the most important reasons for a lot of regulars to log on.

Quote by: Buddleia

Maybe, just maybe, if local Banter was removed, then after the initial overloading chaos and gnashing of teeth, then people would reconsider the purpose of a Banter channel, and start only posting in it if they think that their message really needs to be seen by everyone, and using GChat or AIM or MSN or an IRC channel or something for their semi-private socialising? Maybe? And maybe possibly this would free up 400 chat-pages worth of server space, and let the Island run a little faster?



So what you're suggesting is pushing players to off-island communication and effectively muting the Island? That is a terrible idea, on many fronts. Please consider privacy, practicality, accessibility and social control.

CMJ, may I remind you of the vote you took in Global Banter regarding the changeover from dwellings to places? There were only some 30 people in there, and it was chaos. Herding cats, is the term you yourself used.

The Island is too big for one Banter to Rule Them All.


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Cicero
 Monday, September 03 2012 @ 06:25 PM UTC  
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I am here to ask for confirmation that there is not room for THREE channels: Story, Outpost-Specific Banter, and Global Banter. If there were, perhaps one could go underneath like the Noticeboard.
Global could have a new name: Palaver, Prattle, Parley, Persiflage, Gab?


 
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